What do you think about the Minimum Wage fight?

1SG James L Vetter — Mon, 09 Mar 2015 22:18:58 -0400

I think this lady got it right on the head.

Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made Mar 9 at 2015 11:13 PM

MSgt Robert Pellam — Mon, 09 Mar 2015 23:13:36 -0400

I have thought on this when if first circulated. First, an E-1 makes $8.84 an hour if he works a 40 hour week. We know that never happens. Training and such. Now that $8.84 an hour does not include BAS or BAH. Nor does it include Medical care. Both add to it. I am not saying it is super, but its liveable. Now working at McD's or any fast food restaurant. $15 an hour is a lot for flipping Burgers. But what they make now is crap. I do say raise minimum wage to $10 an hour and raise E-1 pay to its equivalent.

Now why raise the minimum wage. One these corporations can afford it first of all. They all ready find loop holes to get out of giving the majority of their employees Health Care. But $10.00 seems high? My thought is this. Some people do not have skills to make more money. Some people only have "minimum skills" This can be due to Birth defects, poor education, poor parents or no parents, loss of memory, just being slow, I can go on and on. While I hope these individuals can be inspired to get a better job, sometimes McD's is the only one that give them a shot. I am not saying all McD's workers are slow. Heck some like it there, which is amazing because I can just imagine what they see on a day to day.

I also call foul on the person who posted the original, Jennifer Harris, NOT 1SG Vetter. Her demeaning attack on people who are trying to get a better life by getting more money on a Job they are working is a sad attempt to make her point look bolder. Yes I believe the Military members are not paid enough, yes the government is cutting back on our benefits one by one. But bring up the issues. Make a solid statement supported by facts. Don't put down human beings who are Working, who are making a go at it and who are trying to make an honest living in this world. That just pisses me off and makes her argument seem like a childish ploy at a playground fight.

Response by SFC Walt Littleton made Mar 10 at 2015 8:26 AM

SFC Walt Littleton — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 08:26:41 -0400

It's complicated. Back in the 60's when I could have been a burger flipper I opted for KFC. Perfect job for a teenager in high school. I made a whopping $1.25 per hour. Prior to that I worked at a gas station filling up cars, washing windshields and checking oil. I started at $0.50 an hour under the table. The owner decided to start detailing cars. Yup when I wasn't pumping gas I was detailing cars. The owner got $25.00 per car and I now made $1.00 per hour.

Why do say this? Awhile back when these jobs went from teenagers to grown family members the whole demographics has changed. Now we have single parents and families working these jobs to make a living. This is driven by the economy and the availability of decent paying jobs.

Bottom line is and I've heard it said many times "why should I pay somebody $15 dollars and hour to flip burgers"? This is easy to figure out. If I bring a new person in at $15 an hour where are they supposed to go from there? Everyone rolls their eyes about burger flippers making this kind of money. I've been there and done that and must say the model is all wrong.

In the new corporate world for some reason everyone has to be number one period. For them being number one only means how profitable their company is. The corporate (Human Resources Pondits) world decided to classify jobs. The model is if you are working at a fast food restaurant you are entitled to make this much money and maybe just maybe a little more after you have been there awhile learn a do a good job. Since this has been accomplished ACCROSS the country in every job title we have all become expendable and so has companies. Company mottos are now, if you want more money you must move up in the company even though there is knowhere to go. So the company brings you in as a partimer no benefits and you are just happy to have a job. The company is rolling in money, the shareholders want more money and workers are screwed.

Everyone and everything is expendable. The new model should be: Hire a Team! Keep that that team until they retire. WHAT!!! Yes, you hire them you train them and you continue perfect your product by sharing in the profits of the company. The more money the company makes the more the employee makes. WHY???
1. Worker productivity goes through the roof.
2. It's no longer just a job, it's a career and you are part of the family.
3. Pride in the product and service.
4. Better products and superior quality.

So, when we talk about flipping burgers for $15 an hour it's not a bad thought but you have to acheive that level of the by being the best burger flipper, best customer service, best at what you do. Currently entry level jobs are filled by 5 applicants that fill out the application and drop it off. The manager hires the one that can read and write and speak in a complete sentence. That's the person who is going to make your burger? Wouldn't it be great to order a burger and know that the staff Is professional, the product is good and actually get what you ordered?

We lost the pride in our companies and most of all the pride of our work force. No one cares about either anymore. Shameful.

If you look at large companies across the board you will see that the CEO's are worth billions. That's billions with a "B"!! Folks the average person can't even spend that much money. There is a retail family in this country who just posted the family worth at $152 billion. WTF.

BRING BACK PRIDE, OWNERSHIP AND EVEEYONE WINS.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 10 at 2015 9:11 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:11:06 -0400

The image shown gives a false impression of what military make.

Let's break down the argument.

The current trend is for service workers to demand a "living wage" which in places like New York with a high cost of living, that runs about $15.00/hr. So let's leave that alone for a moment.

Take a military member. Do service members make a "living wage?" Yes. We, as a collective group do. From the junior E1 to the senior General make a livable wage, because all of our base expenses are covered. We receive housing, food, medical, and pay as compensation for our services. Even when married this holds true. Now, this does not mean that the number of dependents won't affect how far that will go, but "living wage" is maintained, especially as E2 & E3 are generally automatic in the services.

The other thing to consider is that the military is "Skilled Labor." By definition, we are skilled labor, as the first thing that happens upon entrance is that we are trained in the profession (the service), and then in a specific skill (MOS).

Now, let us compare that to service workers (Retail, fast food etc).

They are generally considered "unskilled labor." As unskilled labor, they are not entitled to the same compensation as "skilled labor." They are at least one tier below. That doesn't mean they aren't entitled to a "living wage" however they just aren't entitled to similar compensation as someone with a more advanced skill set.

Service industry jobs are entry level positions. That isn't to say that they don't deserve fair compensation, just that the compensation must be reasonable for what the service being provided is. In the DC area, basic administration pays $12-15 hour. Licensed insurance agents at GEICO start at $16~/hr last I checked. A service worker does not have comparable skills, and hence does not deserve comparable compensation.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2015 9:23 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:23:00 -0400

The issue isn't so much Burger-Flippers vs. the Military. It is basic economics. If you are a business owner, increasing payroll means that you either either have to raise your prices (which may price you out of competition with other similar businesses) or you have to cut hours, benefits, or even fire employees. Or the last option is to reduce your profit margin, which these days tends to be razor-thin to begin with.

What I have noticed is that a lot of the fast-food places (McDonalds especially) have gone to automated ordering and paying kiosks. Operating costs are a lot lower than paying an employee's wages, benefits, and kiosks never ask to take breaks, eat, don't report to work, have family issues, etc. So employers are seeing that automating their workforce is more cost-effective than giving a $15/hr wage + benefits.

So what these $15 minimum wage people are doing is actually legislating themselves out of a job entirely.

Response by SSG Christopher Parrish made Mar 10 at 2015 9:28 AM

SSG Christopher Parrish — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:28:20 -0400

I personally think anyone who thinks they can make a career working at a minimum wage job is a fool. I realize not everyone can be a CEO, but anyone with the drive can at least make it to a Manager of a restaurant and no longer make minimum wage.

We as Americans have gotten lazy and needy. No longer are we the nation that took a transistor radio and figured out how to land on the Moon.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Mar 10 at 2015 9:42 AM

SGT Richard H. — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:42:37 -0400

As soon as "Sally McBurgerflipper" gets her way and minimum wage is $15/hr, the worm will turn and burgers will then become $15. Economics are pretty much always "trickle down" or "trickle up" with very few exceptions. Simply put, when cost doubles, prices double. Nothing is solved.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2015 10:56 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 10:56:56 -0400

If you don't want to live off minimum wage, then don't have a minimum wage job...I haven't had a minimum wage job since high school...Gain some skills and get a better job or move up in your current company. Flipping burgers isn't a career, it's a job designed for high schoolers to give them experience for the real world.

If you're 30 years old and flipping burgers for minimum wage then you need to reevaluate your choices...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 1:00 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 01:00:35 -0400

She does have it exactly right. The only thing I'd add is that with a minimum wage set at any level, the REAL minimum is zero. Raising the minimum raises the expectations that employers have and the unskilled and low skilled (read, young and poor) will go unemployed as a result.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 1:00 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 01:00:50 -0400

How many of the people working at your local Walmart are on public assistance... be it rent assist, food stamps, or some other program... conservatives are correct when they say these people are too dependent on government. The solution is to require a living wage that removes the burden from the taxpayer.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Mar 11 at 2015 1:29 AM

SFC Collin McMillion — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 01:29:19 -0400

Hey, let them raise the minimum wage, as soon as it cost the business more for employees than they take in per day it will stop and no one will even have a starting job to begin a lifelong work process and record. Even the fast food chains have moved overseas for cheap labor and profit. prrtty soon there will be no jobs left to complain about how much you make, because 0 is 0. I have spent the last several years living in the Philippines and though they have a very small minimum wage law, no one argues if they get paid less because they need to earn. Americans are too worried about hetting their hands dirty. They don't want to start at the bottom and work up, they want to start at the top, but when that fails they will really be at the bottom because they ran all the bottom jobs off, so 0=0. My father once told me, " when your out go exceeds you income, your upkeep will be your downfall". Oh how true!!!!!

Response by SSG Christopher Parrish made Mar 11 at 2015 9:36 AM

SSG Christopher Parrish — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:36:00 -0400

Oh, I just had an idea pop in my little ol' head.

If flipping burgers is your career choice, that is fine and your own personal decision. But instead of forcing the minimum wage to $15 an hour, how about this idea.

Go to work at McD's or some similar place to learn customer service and how an assembly line kitchen works, then move up to a place that actually cooks their food (i.e. What A Burger) and learn that. Then move to another place where they actually make their food that they actually cook, such as a burger place that is not a chain. A few great examples I can think of in the Dallas area are Maple & Motor, Stackhouse, etc. I know those guys make more than minimum wage, and they actually earn it.

Then if you are feeling good about yourself, try to move up to an actual restaurant with a Chef and Sous Chef, learn and grow. Then perhaps one day you too can make it to Sous Chef or Exec Chef and make some real good money.

Just a thought from someone who started out as a bus boy in high school and now makes a very good living in IT. Never stop growing and challenging yourself, that is the moral to this story boys and girls.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Mar 11 at 2015 9:55 AM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:55:11 -0400

I dont think comparing burger flippers to military is a good comparison. As military people we get so much more then just an hourly wage, free housing alone not to mention medical etc... A good comparison would be a burger flipper to say a college educated IT guy who is making 15.00 an hour, vs the guy flipping burgers without a college education and no technical skills.

The min wage being 8.75/hr is modern slavery. Min wage was suppose to be a living wage, its turned into something degrading now. I think they should raise it to about 10/hr. The idea that companies will have to raise prices, fire people etc... just isn't true. People who already have alot of money just do not want to pass any of it on to their employees.

Response by SGT Gabriel G. made Mar 11 at 2015 10:13 AM

SGT Gabriel G. — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 10:13:21 -0400

I think I'm willing to pay a little bit more to help those who don't make much. I think that post is lacking in compassion a little bit. That post is riddled with condescending remarks about low level workers, so it's clear she already doesn't like those folks.

I think raising the minimum wage would help us not have to rely as much on public assistance, there are a slew of benefits, and I would gladly pay $10 for a burger knowing that it would contribute to a better working environment. We're already paying the taxes so they can get foodstamps.

I have a problem with people like this Jennifer Harris, as she clearly ALREADY hates fast food workers or what she considers to be low-class people.

Response by HN Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 10:21 AM

HN Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 10:21:24 -0400

I say she got it right. A lot of us are severely unappreciated for what we do.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 11:26 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 11:26:27 -0400

Everyone is so caught up in how much the burger flipper is getting for $15 an hour. Yes it may at the end of the year be more than what even a sgt with 8 years may get but did you ever take in the fact that we dont pay for mesical OR housing? We sont but THEY do. So when they use that extra momey to pay for mesical and their house how much are they really getting compared to us? Not even close to what we are getting. Would you rather take more pay but instead pay for your own mesical and housing? I bet most everyone would rather keep it the way it is. So to everyone: think about their situation to before you judge. Think about THEIR lives and not just the dollar sign and zeros on the paycheck.

Response by MSgt Allan Vrboncic made Mar 11 at 2015 11:30 AM

MSgt Allan Vrboncic — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 11:30:54 -0400

The minimum wage is for students and second job hunters. It is an unskilled position. If you want more money then get an education and work toward finding a career. Or, do a better job and work your way up into management.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 11 at 2015 11:44 AM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 11:44:27 -0400

The market will ideally pay what the labor is worth. I hope that everyone can have a job that allows them to live a good lifestyle and pay their bills, but if you refuse to update your skills then you will continue to earn what you are worth.

Also, the poor in this country are far better off than many other countries.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 12:20 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:20:19 -0400

I damn sure can't argue with her.

Response by PV2 Alaina Norman made Mar 11 at 2015 1:49 PM

PV2 Alaina Norman — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:49:24 -0400

I don't believe people who work at fast food restaurants( which has been a big fight in that area mainly) deserve that kind of pay. Technically those positions are for teens as starter jobs and most don't even do a good job in first place. Whats sad is our soldiers and the pay rate. Ive heard this several times and i completely agree with it. Let the govts pay rates have same as military and see how they feel about it then. They will have a totally different view. You work for what you get, now i cant say going to college and getting a degree is for everyone but some form of education and working experience, making your way up ladder.

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Mar 11 at 2015 2:58 PM

SFC Stephen P. — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:58:24 -0400

I say why stop at raising people out of poverty? Let's raise the minimum wage to $75 per hour.

Response by 1SG Frank Rocha made Mar 11 at 2015 4:01 PM

1SG Frank Rocha — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:01:45 -0400

The problem with wage hikes, especially dealing with minimum wage, is that everything is always passed onto the consumer. So the burgers get more expensive. bread is more expensive. everything goes up in price. cost of living goes through the roof. People purchase less or gravitate to only the largest chains that produce the lowest prices. Mom & pops go out of business.

we also deal with unemployment. if an employer can't afford to employ enough personnel then he has to lay people off to cover the difference so he can afford to continue operating.

so What does this mean? less people working and less spending means less tax revenue. less money in circulation. Raising taxes and minimum wages only makes our deficit problem worse not better.

Now there is corruption in all things made by man. no matter what you will have an element of corruption in some way fashion or form. So, yes that means if there was no minimum wage some corrupt business owner wouldn't even pay people money. but they are more the exception then the rule. I don't believe perpetually raising the minimum wage is the answer if stopping, or degrading, corruption is the sole reason for doing so.

Response by SGT Joe Sabedra made Mar 11 at 2015 4:02 PM

SGT Joe Sabedra — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:02:55 -0400

That strike never happened. It was staged.

Now when you go to a restraunt there is a device to order your food and order refills.

Food service is going to go automated.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Mar 11 at 2015 6:14 PM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:14:40 -0400

It's time to increase the minimum wage.

NOT because I think minimum wage should be a living wage and NOT because employees deserve $15 for flipping burgers. Minimum wage should be increased because the dollar amount haven't changed and inflation increases cost of living every year.

Here's my proposal
1) take the average of the current states' minimum wage and do an increase to that. That's about $8.50 and add an annual cost of living adjustment to prevent sinking purchasing power

2) any additional increases above that should be based on geographic region or considered locality pay. For example, there's a 23% difference in Cost of living between Fort Hood, TX and Los Angeles. In California, $8.50 probably would go very far.

3) I do not support a blanket $15 raise. that'll just inflate the cost of living and decrease purchasing power for everyone without achieving any progress on the issue.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 10:58 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 22:58:43 -0400

Her figures don't account for housing and food.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 11:06 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 23:06:02 -0400

I've got problems with this. First off any amount of money is not enough to do what we do/did and if you can find a dollar amount that you're willing to kill and be killed for than I'd say you're a mercenary.
The comparison made isn't fair at all. That number is just that PFC's take home pay. That doesn't include room and board, medical, dental, subsidized on post facilities like the gym, movie theater, pools, tracks, mwr, etc. That doesn't include the continual training he receives, either locally at the unit level, like PT(something civilians pay for), at the garrison level, like combat life saver (or something similar), brought to him from somewhere else (MTTs), or him sent to TDY (pldc or whatever it's called this decade).
These are all things that in the civilian world the employee would have to pick up at a much higher cost.

I run a small business, my wife is a teacher, medical insurance runs 450 dollars a month for my family, and additional twenty and ten for supplemental dental and vision.
Continuing education to maintain my wife's certifications and my skills current about three thousand a year. Room and board for four in a middle class neighborhood with decent schools? 30k ( coincidentally only slightly higher than the BAH + BAS rates in my area).
Just those numbers hit almost 40k. That's just a three bedroom house, food, medical and just enough education to not fall behind in central Florida.
I pay my employees $15 dollars an hour. I go a step further and promise them a minimum amount of money per day. If only three hours of work exist I still pay a minimum of five.
Why? Because, no one can live around here on less. I don't provide medical or any benefits at all. I don't even make a profit (sadly).
So my youngest employee, the son of a retired major, is riding tricare until he's kicked off in the next two years, my newest employee, a divorced single mom of three with a deadbeat father, is on Medicaid, and my star employee, who was hit by a car a year ago, is still paying her $52,000 medical bill because she has no insurance.

Yes, fifteen dollars might be too much in rural Alabama and not enough in Manhattan. I agree but something has to be done to correct the inequity of this situation. It's not just "unskilled labor" hurting, last year when I posted a vacancy, I had 1537 people apply for what was a part time position. Two years ago, I had applicants with masters degrees for a full time slot. It might just be the recession, but the people working in these jobs are still trying to feed and care for their families.
.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Mar 11 at 2015 11:13 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 23:13:20 -0400

We cannot fool ourselves to think that EVERY person will get a proportional wage hike. In fact some who worked to reach beyond minimum wage will be over taken by the new minimum wage and thrust back to the lowest rung through no fault of their own. This, combined with participation trophies and unearned advancement in education will serve to rip apart the spirit of competition.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 11:43 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 23:43:30 -0400

I have a problem with raising minimum wage because I feel it dilutes the wages of other, more skilled, positions. I make just over $15 as a veterinary technician. When I think about the time and expense one goes through just to get this skill set and pay, and compare it to flipping a burger with no education, for the same pay..well it makes my head spin. At least the Army paid for my degree..not everyone has that chance.

Response by 1SG James L Vetter made Mar 11 at 2015 11:49 PM

1SG James L Vetter — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 23:49:00 -0400

If you never served in the military, you will never know what hard work is. It is not a 9 to 5 job it is a 24 hour job and when you figure out what that comes to per hour you would be shocked. The men and women in uniform should be asking for a raise but instead they are defending peoples rights to ask for $15 an hour for minimum wage. I get it is a tough economy but if someone actually puts some effort into their job they can move up to a good paying job in a very short time frame. I have over 2000 employees working for me and the people that get it and put in the effort to improve themselves generally get the promotions and raises and don't have to work for minimum wage. People that want to make more than minimum wage need to pull up their pants, get a hair cut, dress for success.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 12:07 AM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 00:07:56 -0400

Simply put, if you work full time you should make enough to live off of without government subsidies. That is why the minimum wage needs to be higher. I don't think $15 is necessary, but more than it is now. $10.10 is the number I hear a lot.

Some of the comments on here have said things to the effect that minimum wage jobs were made for teenagers looking for spending money. Does anyone have any kind of source that shows this to be true, because that sounds wrong? I've known many adults, just trying to make enough money to eat and pay for gas, in minimum wage jobs.

As far as low skills so you deserve low pay. You are right. The problem though, is not everyone gets the opportunities some get. It can be incredibly difficult for someone to take the time to get more skills. It isn't as easy for people who don't have the personalities you can find in the military.

I suppose the big point is, if you are working, you shouldn't have to be supported by the government. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 2:04 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 02:04:49 -0400

Her comments ignore the reality that the job market is weak and that many college graduates are overqualified for their current jobs. A graduate degree is the new bachelor's degree, and it is becoming essential for obtaining a legitimate career for a high percentage of college graduates. This old but relevant (2013) article that I found indicated that 41% of college graduates from the classes of 2011 and 2012 were in jobs that did not require a degree-they were overqualified for their position.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/30/pf/college/college-grads-jobs/

Response by SGT Corey Franks made Mar 12 at 2015 1:00 PM

SGT Corey Franks — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 13:00:20 -0400

I definitely think that minimum wage should be increased. With that being said, Military should be making more as well! Its not fair to either person. No one making 7.25 an hour can afford insurance, a rent check, food, others necessary bills and expenses without needing the governments help. Everyone needs an increase!! But of course if we do that, Milk will start costing 15 a gallon etc etc

Agree?

Response by SrA Nick Skinner made Mar 12 at 2015 1:10 PM

SrA Nick Skinner — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 13:10:54 -0400

This isn't an apples to apples comparison. Those in the military have the added benefits of full insurance for themselves and their families. A cost that would exceed $1000-$2000 per month. Lets toss in BAH and BAS, GI Bill benefits, tuition assistance, etc.

Granted, I think $15/hour for unskilled labor is a little extreme. (I live in Seattle. When I try to get help at the local parts store or shopping center, I cringe knowing they get paid that much to not help)

People need a salary that is right on the cusp of them being productive in society. Too little, and people are lazy and won't push for more education and a better career. Too much, and people grow content and lazy. It's a fine balance.

Response by SGT Gabriel G. made Mar 12 at 2015 1:30 PM

SGT Gabriel G. — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 13:30:15 -0400

Does anyone else think by the tone of this post that this girl hasn't ever had to sacrifice anything to make ends meet? The way in which she speaks of these people is hateful and condescending and probably had a bit more in the way of opportunity than others. It's more than just "get out there and work for it!"

The point is to raise the bare minimum a little higher. Again, most people on minimum wage are receiving public assistance, I'd rather pay a quarter to $2 more for a burger knowing that these employees won't end up on welfare and that they can care for their families, and I think most reasonable people would also do that.

Also, there's the issue of wage disparity between high level executives, etc. Today, there's an astronomical difference between what a CEO makes vs. an employee than there was in decades past, and it's getting worse (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/4/15/executive-pay-compensationceoworkerratio.html).

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with making a good living being the CEO of a company, but when you're one of the Waltons, what's a small fraction of the profits? I probably sound like a hippie or something, but you're saying a CEO can't sacrifice pennies on the dollar to keep employees off of welfare? I think most people I know, myself included, would take pride in keeping employees off of foodstamps, etc.

Also, let's not lie to ourselves about the military. An E-1 gets that base pay on top of (usually) living in the barracks, eating free food at a dining facillity, access to free education benefits, correspondence courses, free trips to the dentist, eye doctor, regular doctor, basically any kind of doctor, medication, etc. You're telling me a Burger King employee working full time can afford even a quarter of this?

How many NCOs out there had to rip one of your privates for showing up in a brand new Challenger or Escalade or opening a ridiculous line of credit for a gigantically overpriced engagement ring from Harris Jewelers for that Hooters waitress they've been dating for three and a half days?

Soldiers have access to tons of useful financial responsibility training in the military when I was in, training that they don't really teach you out in the civilian world (at least not for free). They make it extremely easy to live within your means, even when a soldier makes a catastrophic mistake financially, like getting a new vehicle with a ridiculous interest rate. Let's admit that not hard to live comfortably in the military, because it really isn't.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 10:49 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 22:49:50 -0400

This is an interesting topic one that does merit debate. I agree that it is hard for those making 7.25 per hour, my son makes that much and will be hard pressed to ever make a good living and afford insurance and other such things. I also agree that we in the military should be making more money then we do, make the politicians wages lower I mean really what do they really do for there permanent 6 figure salary for life, wow how nice. I have to fight to make my retirement and then it may all change and I could lose it. I think the minimum wage should go up every year just like the military pay does and as was said it is a delicate balance of people not working hard enough and becoming lazy or working hard but being able to go no where. There are people working at Burger king that have degrees because they could not get good jobs, yet CEO's of big companies make millions every year. Sorry soap box of mine let me climb down.

Response by GySgt Ozzy Ortega made Mar 13 at 2015 8:45 PM

GySgt Ozzy Ortega — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 20:45:20 -0400

It's ridiculous for no/low skill workers to ask for so much without having earned it.

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Mar 13 at 2015 9:50 PM

LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 21:50:42 -0400

Like most thing political, there needs to be a healthy debate with balanced view on both sides. On one side, if you force company to pay more for workers, then more jobs can be lost. On the other hand, if a company is bringing in tons of profit that is going to a select few and is being greedy off the backs of others who deserve it, I think that isn't good either.

In the end I think minimum wage workers should continue to improve their skillsets so they can warrant the pay necessary. If they still do but don't get it, then I think we have a situation where the wage hike is necessary. But if we are raising rates just to raise them and the skillset may not match, then it could hurt more people in the long-run. Companies may have to raise prices, which could hurt sales, which in turn could be more jobs lost.

I am a business owner with 40 employees. If I had to raise rates right now across the board, it would seriously hurt our cash flow, and i would have to let people go.

I once had an employee tell me that they would work harder if I paid him more. I told him I would pay more if he worked harder. Why? Because there was no doubt in my mind if he did work harder than there would be more money to give him.

Response by PO3 Michael Cox made Mar 14 at 2015 6:24 PM

PO3 Michael Cox — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 18:24:49 -0400

its a delicate topic that id be willing to write an article on but as of right now its not worth it to rant on. I will say this perhaprs the need for a minimum wage increase is a sign of much greater issues.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Mar 15 at 2015 11:11 PM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 23:11:46 -0400

The way I see it, whenever minimum wage is increased, the people lose and government profits. Wage go up, prices go up, your incomtax bracket moves up and you pay more taxes and inflation rises at a higher rate than does the cost of living increases.
Thus we get more pay with less buying power. Just what the economy needs... I've seen it happen over n over, one more time for the working class retired to tighten their belts as well as the idiots who get the raise n wonder why the dollar doesn't stretch as far any more.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 9:41 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:41:10 -0400

Minus the profanity, I agree with her. Her comparison to Jr. Enlisted Soldiers' pay was just r o make a point, but a valid one. While there is nothing wrong with working fast food or minimum wage jobs, those individuals should have more drive and aspirations for themselves. I think the main thought to take from this post is to be grateful and not complain, have some drive and determination about yourself (especially as an adult), and realize it's a blessing to even be employed PERIOD...with all the poverty around America, $15 minimum wage is a huge come up!

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 18 at 2015 9:15 AM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 09:15:31 -0400

Due to many of the regulations that choke competition we are left with less businesses that can employ people and therefore lower wages being offered. When the government steps in an forces an increase in the minimum wage, but does not fix the issue of employment competition, businesses fail and shut down.

Glad Seattle already saw this, just wish people would pay attention to it:

http://shiftwa.org/more-seattle-restaurants-close-doors-as-15-minimum-wage-approaches/

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 2:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 14:51:30 -0400

As a Career Counselor I see this all the time: 11B sitting in the IRR after completing his Active Duty contract, and "thinking" about what he wants to do with the rest of his life, and working at McDs or something similar. I offer him a USAR position as an engineer (either horizontal or vertical) and he turns up his nose saying that he wants to remain in the Combat Arms. Last time I looked there were not a lot of job openings for Infantrymen or Tank Crewmen. It makes no difference to him that with the housing market starting to rebound there are a lot of positions for trained carpenters, plumbers, electricians, and heavy equipment operators that are going to need to be filled. He is "planning" to go to college. When asked what he is going to major in his response is Art History, or something like that. When I ask him what he wants to DO with that degree he has no clue.

This is the same kind of idiocy that has infected our society at large. Kids get bachelor’s degrees in useless subjects with no thought of what job they want to do after graduation. My sister has a degree in Art. What does she do for a living? She's an assistance manager at a bank in a grocery store branch. She enjoys what she is doing, but if she had gotten her degree in finance instead of art maybe she'd be the manager or working at the regional HQ.

A college degree is not the end all be all, and there are thousands of such graduates that are only qualified to work at entry level (read minimum wage) type jobs. This does not mean that they are worth increasing the minimum wage to help them pay for those student loans for the useless degrees of theirs.

Let’s look at the repercussions of raising the minimum wage (MW):

1) Many places that pay MW work on very narrow profit margins so they would have to make up the difference in either reducing the number of employees, reducing benefits, cutting hours, increasing the cost of their product, or a combination of the above.

2) Within a few years the market would correct for the artificial increase in wages and we would be right back to where we are now.

3) Many of the people that are protesting for the higher MW would be out of a job because someone with a better resume would take their job. Think about it; your business hires entry level people for $8/hr and expects to take man-hours to train them to be better at what they do, and thus making them worth a pay raise. Now you are forced to pay those same people $15/hr. Many employers will forego the unskilled/unexperienced worker and hire someone with better skills and more experience for the higher wage since they will need fewer of them than the unexperienced workers.

4) An increase to the MW is an increase to all wages. I have a degree in Culinary Arts. I worked as a Pastry Chef at a local restaurant for over 10 years and my wages topped out at about $16.50/hr. If all of a sudden the busboys, dishwashers, and unskilled prep-cooks are making $15/hr it wouldn't be long before the wages for the skilled workers would have to increase or they would leave for somewhere that either paid better or where they didn't have to work as hard for their money.

Let the market set the wage levels. If what you are making is not enough to support yourself or your family, train for something better.

Decisions have consequences. If you want a degree in Liberal Arts, Archeology or Photography then expect to be working for minimum wage for many years thereafter assuming you have a job at all.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Mar 19 at 2015 9:37 AM

PO3 Sherry Thornburg — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 09:37:27 -0400

When this debate started, my thoughts were no.

MWage jobs are starter jobs, not careers. If you like McDs and want to make that your career, then move up to management. Don't stay a burger flipper. One young high school lady I know had moved up to shift manager by the time she finished high school. Its just a matter of motivation.

I have taken one of those jobs for part-time work, and was paid better than the teenagers because I was more mature and capable, but it was still for part-time wages and no benefits. It was a pay check to help things along, not a career move. Many people take these jobs in bad times because its all they can find. I understand that and it sucks to see someone with a masters degree flipping burgers. But when things get better, they move on.

As a skilled worker in my field, I can expect to make 15.00 an hour as a beginner. That's with a BS and after an internship somewhere. You can be sure that skilled work wages won't double just because the MWage does. Should non-skilled workers make the same as skilled workers? Should a 4 year degree mean no more in earning power than sweeping floors at a grocery store?

I still say no.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 19 at 2015 11:03 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 23:03:34 -0400

My first job was in 1992, and I was making $4.25 an hour. I have bettered my myself in several ways since then so I can afford more, do more, and bring more comfort to my life and my family. Why do people want to world handed to them?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 11:51 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Mar 2015 11:51:22 -0400

This debate and the way our politicians (can't call them leaders, they don't lead) are taking it is seriously pissing me off.

First off, minimum wage is for jobs that require minimal skills. Now I get there are some jobs out there that pay minimum wage but require a higher skill set. For example, a security guard that has to go through a bunch of training, weapon proficiency in some cases, and puts themselves at a higher level of risk vs a cashier is getting paid the same as the cashier. That's BS and needs to be addressed/fixed. Or a cashier that can't get a job in Florida unless she is bilingual, and then gets paid minimum wage. More BS.

So now that I have addressed the argument for higher minimum wage in SOME cases:

The vast majority of these people don't deserve the $7-$8 they are making now!!!! In San Antonio, I subscribe to the Facebook feed for the local paper. Every week or so they post the negative results of health inspections on the city restaurants. HOLY CRAP! Not just mom and pop diners mind you, but franchised restaurants and big name/big price places too. It's disgusting. Beyond the roaches and rodent droppings, you get reports of week old recycled food, mold, spoilage, dishes not being completely washed.

And the people responsible for this mess want to be paid double what they make now?!?!

The 17 yr old high school drop out that stocks tampons and toilet paper at Walmart feels he deserves MORE MONEY???

Give me a break. And ultimately, consumers and taxpayers pay for this, so less hard earned money for us.

Minimum wage jobs - starting out in the work force, pocket money, supplemental income. It is not and never was meant to be living wage, career, or support a family.

Instead of wasting resources to make unskilled/underskilled people more wealthy - put those resources to make the unskilled/underskilled MORE SKILLED!

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 25 at 2015 10:03 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Wed, 25 Mar 2015 22:03:45 -0400

I think if you can justify a minimum wage, then you can justify a maximum one with the exact same logic.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2015 11:54 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Apr 2015 11:54:48 -0400

1SG Vetter , you are 110% right. It's sad that Congress doesn't care one bit about a soldier who puts his life on the line every single day; But will sit up in Washington begging for a hamburger flipper who never served his country to get a premium wage and probably already gets free food, housing, medical, phone, and everything else that the person in the white house can "give" them.

Response by PO3 Tanis Huston made Apr 2 at 2015 10:19 AM

PO3 Tanis Huston — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 10:19:49 -0400

I think that she is completely right! With that said though I think this goes far deeper then fast food worker verse military, getting paid $15 dollars and hour to flip a burger is disrespectful to anyone that gets paid less then that with far high responsibilities and higher expectations. Starting pay for a 911 dispatcher in one of the Counties in Minnesota is $17 an hour.

If I look back over the last year of any time that I went to a fast food restaurant I can tell you absolutely that there is only one time that my order was correct. The one experience that sticks out most is when my husband and i went to McDonald's and we ordered two value meals and two happy meals. First we had to go back in because they forgot the drinks to the happy meals then we had to go back in for the chicken nuggets for the happy meal (how do you forget the meal part of Happy meal), then had to go back in because I'm allergic to onions, specifically requested no onions and not if it was one or two that may have fallen on my burger, that I would be okay with but when you put extra onions that is a problem. Never in my life have I called 911 and not gotten the up most best service (because of my job I call them at least once a night if not more)

Then there is the other aspect and this is my logically politically minded husband's view, where on earth is a high school kid going to work now? No where is going to hire a 16 year kid with no work experience for $15 an hour when they can get a college graduate that just got of school and can't find a job in their field.

This is just my opinion, take it or leave it, use it as you see fit.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Apr 3 at 2015 4:55 PM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 16:55:43 -0400

As a former business owner....this would have forced me out of business..... I would have to look at another line of work

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Apr 3 at 2015 9:54 PM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 21:54:41 -0400

She has it right with no doubt in my mind

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2015 10:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 22:01:20 -0400

Without choosing one side or another, I think her argument is flawed. If she is trying to persuade someone it may a good idea to avoid the "baconator" and other condescending name calling. In addition, the comparison is inadequate. Joe military gets base pay, as she points out, but also does not pay rent, utilities or health insurance plus medical bills, but Joe civilian does. If the service member has dependents, they do get BHA (non taxable). They also get 30 annual leave plus DONSAs and are frequently allowed time off ti take care of family matters without using leave or affecting their pay. Joe civilian likely does not have health insurance, does not get even close to 30 days annual leave, and if he does is probably more like 7 days annual leave. If he needs to take little johnny to the dictor he'll either lose the little leave he has or do leave without pay. Anf if little johnny gets sick too iften Joe civilian might get fired (I've seen it). I am not saying that Joe military does not desrve the pay and benefits, all I say is the comparison is nonsense. Must have a solid argument if she wishes to oersuade anyone

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2015 10:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 22:24:56 -0400

I dont agree with a pay increase of four to five dollar an hour but the minimum wage has not gone up in forever. I think that they do need a small increase

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 12:31 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 00:31:48 -0400

I think it's going to be sad for the minimum wage strikers when the corporations go to automated systems. Many countries in Europe already have automated ordering stands instead of employees. When it comes down to it, passing low skilled workers increased wages versus upgrading the company to situation, I think companies are going to be going automated. I understand everyone wants now money, but you don't always get what you want. In this economy I would think people would be more thankful for they jobs they do have rather than trying to force their corporate bosses to replace them with cheap software. I think the military pays us enough, but I don't see any justification to raising fast food workers pay to $15 an hour.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 1:31 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:31:25 -0400

It is a cheap trick by liberals to get votes. Funny how this seldom happens during the start of a Congressional session. lol

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 2:09 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 02:09:50 -0400

I read an article yesterday about the initial bump in Seattle to $11/hour. What I am finding as an abhorrent failure in strategic economics is the fact that they did not see the hyperinflation that this would cause. Prices are now jumping in some restaurants up to 40+%! A few restaurants are informing their customers not to tip due to the fact that they have now had to change the way that they pay their employees. This is actually reducing how much they make! To put it in a more straight-forward manner: restaurants expenses dramatically increased but their employees now make less!

Given this is an industry view and other workers will actually see the increase of the salaries, but the business owners must now compensate more to control expenses. I would venture to say that customer service will slide dramatically and hours will be cut just to keep from having to compensate by raising prices too much.

They may be putting more money in the consumer's pocket, but more will come out now due to the costs of goods increasing to compensate for increased liabilities. We will also likely see a decrease in hiring and other measures to control the impact of these wage increases.

Honestly, I can't believe the short-sightedness of those who would enact such a law. Frankly, I agree with the initial post: if you don't want to make minimum wage, work to gain a skill or education that will increase your salary.

Response by SPC Patrick Gearardo made Apr 4 at 2015 7:02 AM

SPC Patrick Gearardo — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 07:02:10 -0400

Well, we'll have to see how long Seattle lasts with their 'ground breaking' minimum wage hikes.

I wouldn't go to a place that one day the meal was $5 and then (after the law starts), it goes up to $10 for the same meal. I'd go somewhere else.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 7:59 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 07:59:31 -0400

All one needs to do is study the history of the minimum raise to see that a raise in minimum raise brings raises in prices that negate the raise.

It is not a solution that will have anything but a very short effect.

People after post prices from the good old days and wish they were back. The fact is people worked the same number of hours to buy and item then as now.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 4 at 2015 6:02 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 18:02:45 -0400

Let's be honest, minimum wage is MINIMUM. It is not supposed to be anything but a place for a person to start. The fact that we would not be able to afford to pay anyone on a hourly wage scale in the should be an example? E-2s making over $10,000 a month? You know what, all of a sudden I am starting to support this?

Response by CPT Richard Riley made Apr 4 at 2015 7:33 PM

CPT Richard Riley — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 19:33:49 -0400

By stark definition, minimum wage is a beginning point. To my knowledge there has never been any intention of this initial earnings scale supporting a family - or even a single adult for that matter. It is designed as an entry wage, a starting point. Few, if any, learned skills and a minimal or absent work track record.

A "living wage" is a figment of the imagination. Who is permitted to define 'living'? I believe you will find that question will obtain a myriad of different answers depending upon who is asked the question. An employee has one person to look out for ... that employee. The business owner has the entire business to look out for - lock, stock, and barrel. Depending on the position that I am looking to hire for, to have a government agency TELL me I have to pay all my employee's a MINIMUM of $xx.xx is very clearly way off the mark. The only person concerned about my companies well being & survival is me. The county, state, and feds just want their slice of the pie they did nothing to earn.

I understand that employee's desire to be paid more and believe they are worth more. If I am not able to meet an employee's pay expectation while preserving my companies livelihood and structure, that employee is free to explore the market and find another company willing to meet that pay expectation. I am not forcing that employee to grind and toil for me at an agreed upon wage. To pay an employee a gross wage of $400, it costs me (my company) about $585.00 after which the government turns on the hoover and that employee ends up with about $320 give-or-take. SO this employee EARNED $400 that ultimately costs $585.00 to give him/her and he/she ends up with $320 to spend.

Jacking the minimum wage to any imaginary desired level costs me and I'm scratching my head at exactly what I get in return for this additional outlay? I'm not seeing anything I can wrap my arms around. If the employee wants a better wage, do what is necessary ... education, skills, training, the list goes ever on ... to put themselves in a better position - obtain a promotion or a better position with another employer and deserve (EARN) a higher wage.

I do not mean to upset or offend anyone, but the last time I checked the IRS does not define my business category as a baby-sitting service. Grow up a little, take a deep breath, and figure out how to do what you need to in order to get a higher wage, then follow through and DO IT.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 6:16 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 06:16:57 -0400

Sooo.... in following of Seattle, WA, this "raise" not only makes more money for the worker, but also raises the cost of living within an X amount of miles, and makes the people who drive the daily commute, i.e. from Tacoma or Spanaway to Seattle richer, but yet a buck Private fresh from basic who may be married and live in Tac-town (Tacoma) who barely makes enough to support his spouse is getting royally screwed because the populous around the area makes more and is willing still sap the Government as when the general populous applies for State Aid, "because they live in X town when they drive the 45 minutes away). I was stationed at Fort Lewis, before the JBLM as it is known now, and as a buck private, single, yet still had bills to pay, this make me utterly sick to where I can honestly say that the general population should try and live on the wages that we make, support a family, pay the bills, rent, and not complain that we dont make enough. I know some burger joints (In-N-Out) who have a good wage, but nothing out of the ordinary, as many high schoolers work there as a part time gig. Thats my rant, have a nice day.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 1:30 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 13:30:03 -0400

If anyone deserves a pay raise its the military and civil servants I.e. Ems, fire, police, and last but not least, military. Why they can't give us a pay raise is so confusing because of the lack of true evidence of us really costing the government so much. If we can send millions and billions I've seas for foreign aid, spend billions on aircraft that have a multitude of problems, not to mention all of the wasteful government programs that don't really do anything. Why can't we get a substantial pay increase.

The largest one I have seen was when we got a 3.8 % pay increase from president Bush. I mean if we have to pay back pennies for being overpaid by the government then why don't the congress personnel have to pay back the millions they lose in foreign aid. Makes no sense to me. And yet still these desk jockeys in Washington think that the military personnel are the largest expense. If we get held accountable for our actions then by God so should each and every last one of them.

Response by CPT(P) David Thorp made Apr 5 at 2015 6:12 PM

CPT(P) David Thorp — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 18:12:51 -0400

In response to the ignorant rant - There has been a lot of this sort of childish animosity towards fast food workers from service members on this issue, as in "how dare they ask for $15 an hour." This woman's comparison is totally unfounded.

First of all, even if a Private makes 18K a year, he doesn't have to pay for food, rent, or healthcare. The fast food person DOES. Its not the same! Don't try to compare base salaries as if the playing field was equal.

Second, a Private reaps the social rewards for serving in the military and the fast food worker is looked at as a failure. The Private gets a free education, VA benefits, guaranteed raises, retirement, and an open door to future opportunities outside the military. The fast food worker gets nothing but a crappy paycheck every week. So don't worry lady, "Mr. Baconator" asking for $15 an hour is still not even close being as deserving as the Private who might get shot at.

Third, we all volunteered to be put into dangerous situations. Its a job. A job that happens to be dangerous sometimes, like a cop or fireman or fisherman, so stop acting like we are the only ones that get to complain about work. Enough with all this compulsory troop worship.
.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 1:47 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 01:47:19 -0400

I've got to say that I disagree entirely on the comparison, and that the minimum wage needs to increase. Our economy has increased a lot in the past decade with none of that coming in the form of better earnings for our lowest-earning citizens, and instead being pocketed by the wealthiest.

That's so dishonest as a comparison; you can talk base pay all you want, but anybody who knows what they're talking about knows that base pay is barely half of our total compensation package. An E-1 might only make $18k/yr, but they also receive medical and dental benefits that would easily cost nearly the same amount yearly if they were paying for them, as well as free lodging, free meals, etc. An E-1's $18k/yr is spending money, and spend it they do. It's not a bad gig.

An adult working McDonald's is using their paltry sum of money to pay for rent, utilities, medical insurance, food, etc; it's not an intellectually honest comparison at all. That's just another one of those social media updates that we use to pat ourselves on the back for our own hero self-worship, while simultaneously saying that anybody who isn't us doesn't deserve a decent living for their work.

I'm not sure how many of you have ever worked fast food, but I did, and it legitimately sucked. On an average day, I'd definitely say my time as a junior enlisted Sailor was easier than a day as a minimum wage fast-food employee. So why not treat them like actual people for once?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 11:46 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 11:46:24 -0400

Initial thought, "Great way to make yourself obsolete."

Saw this picture in a previous thread and the take away from that one was from a business stand point...why deal with the hassle. *New McDonald's kiosks replace servers overseas.

Response by SPC Edward Tapper made Apr 6 at 2015 12:06 PM

SPC Edward Tapper — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 12:06:33 -0400

EXACTLY! This Jennifer Harris lady didn't miss a lick. If an entry level burger-flipper feels they deserve to make nearly twice the E-1 salary, then i say give our troops a break and let them trade jobs for a week. Not that our fighting men and women would enjoy flipping burgers, but I'd liike to see Franky Fry-cook take his unskilled, underachieving butt to war with his trusty spatula in hand to fight the war on terror for $18,000 / year. These self-centered idiots haven't even thought about the fact that would nearly triple menu prices, thusly leading to a sizable reduction in fast food sales amd, therefore, a reduction in need for their services. I wonder how well $15 / hour pays when their resteraunt closes due to lack of sales and they lose their jobs. Isn't Economics taught in school anymore or did they drop out of school before they had the class?

Response by SrA David Steyer made Apr 6 at 2015 12:35 PM

SrA David Steyer — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 12:35:14 -0400

Do I think Mcdonalds and Walmart should pay $15+ an hour? No. But it wouldn't hurt them to pay maybe $10 an hour after six months to a year. A lot of these jobs have HIGH turnover (my first job the franchise turnover goal was 135% a year) regardless of wages as many of them pay the same but differ in hours. $10 an hour straight up at day of hire I don't agree with.

I grew up right near Fort Drum and these are the main jobs for many people - fast food and retail. I knew people who worked at almost every fast food restaurant because one gave more hours than the other and would bounce around. I knew someone who worked at both Burger King AND McDonalds.

I started working when I was 16. My dad gave me an option "You are bringing f'ing books home (as I had very little to NO homework due to having multiple study halls), or you are getting a job!" Two weeks later I got a job at Burger King making $5.15 an hour, which was the minimum wage 12 years ago when I was 16 in New York State.

For a HS student I made good money due to the fact I got great hours (high turnover) and made more than a peer who made $10 an hour working at Pier 1, but his mommy and daddy had a lot more $$$ so they were able to offset everything else. I can tell you that I was not worth $10 an hour even though I thought I deserved it at the time (was a dumb 16 year old). I was smart enough though to save a lot of that $$$ and it's there today.

If you look at a lot of these people who are begging for $15 an hour, many of them made some questionable decisions in life - having kids you cannot support, trying to live beyond means etc. I can't say I feel too bad. Very rarely if never you see the single person mentioned, it's always someone with kids.

I think maybe if society had more focus on vocational training/job skills and college degrees that are marketable and actually translate to something then maybe we wouldn't have this debate. Of course there are other things to consider that I left out, but you don't see trades pushed so much anymore. Nothing at all wrong with college, but I think we need to look at the benefits and pros/cons.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 12:48 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 12:48:50 -0400

What a lot of people don't mention when talking about raising the minimum wage up to $15.00/Hr is that people who now make more than that will also demand a corresponding wage. What skilled laborer who makes $15 hour today is going to accept that his skills are worth the same as the high school kid (or under achiever) who is flipping burgers at Mickey D's? That will ripple most of the way right up the ladder and equate to everybody demanding a corresponding raise. $15.00 combo meals will be the norm.

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Apr 6 at 2015 2:07 PM

Cpl Tou Lee Yang — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:07:28 -0400

CEO are literally overpaid. Most CEO get paid more than their entire minimum wage workforce. You cannot possible tell me that a CEO has a skill is unique that no one else has it? I'm sure they're mind reader that can shoot laser out of their eyes.

The raise of the minimum wage will make a miniscule dent on the profit or the goods the store/restaurant sell. The Big Mac index gives anyone a good idea of the affect of a minimum wage will do to people's buying power.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 1:07 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 13:07:51 -0400

We need to relook at what a 'living wage' really is. It was defined that a person needed a phone and therefore, the poor got free phones. That has now been extended to cell phones. We also subsidize health care for the poor as well and can also subsidize housing and provide welfare, medicaid, WIC, and other supplemental income vehicles.

That all said, if we start providing a living wage, will that then get rid of all the subsidized services and 'benefits'? If so then I am all for it. Better to have people working and the prices go up some than having our taxes go to those who do not work or do not work enough.

I say this because my wife works at CVS and will work as many hours as the boss will give her. One of the employees works only 9 hours a week. Any more and she loses her benefits. WTF? Why not work a whole lot more and not take any benefits.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 9:39 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 21:39:40 -0400

So the argument is we should deny a living wage to civilian workers because the government currently doesn't pay servicembers as much as the current minimum wage proposals, meanwhile discounting that we get free healthcare, paid housing, extra pay for dependents, and so on. I'm not saying we shouldn't get paid more for what we sacrifice, but let's not introduce a level of contention against civilian workers because all they want is the equivalent of a 1970s wage, today. Productivity over the past 4 decades has increased by over 150% while the average pay remained flat. If people are paid a livable wage then we end up paying less in taxes from social support services paid to those very same people.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made May 26 at 2015 5:13 PM

PFC Tuan Trang — Tue, 26 May 2015 17:13:40 -0400

I agree with the post.

Response by Col Kyle Taylor made May 26 at 2015 9:26 PM

Col Kyle Taylor — Tue, 26 May 2015 21:26:48 -0400

Minimum wage should be tied to the CPI as should all government and state paychecks. There should be no resins that businesses can plan for costs when using the CPI. It is when they have no true basis to plan that the system is out of wack. Since it is currently out of wack, it would take several years to make it right but in no means should a burger flipper make more than a soldier, sailor, airman, or marine...or police officer, fireman, or teacher for that mater.

Response by SSG John Erny made May 26 at 2015 9:48 PM

SSG John Erny — Tue, 26 May 2015 21:48:48 -0400

If you are a small business owner should your highest paid employee take home more money than you do when you draw from the company books and put money in your personal account? If you have a business in an area that is suffering an economic down turn should you wages have to compete with areas that are successful? If you work for a large business and are a union member should you be compensated for the investors and entrepreneur who risked fortunes on an idea that gave you a job?
If you think that the answer is yes I should be making a fortune at the assembly line or as much as the small business owner then there is this system called communism that has failed all who have tried it. China did not have an explosion in economic growth until it relaxed somewhat government control of its markets; albeit a corrupt version of free market capitalism.
Even the poor in our society do relatively well for the most part, they have a car, a big screen TV, an XBOX, internet, etc. They have food stamps and other public assistance programs that allow for a standard of living that is better than those of the 1900’s. They are in fact wealthy compared to places in the world that many of us have never heard of.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 4:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 16:30:17 -0400

Basically it's going to be inflation. Ohh would you like a $15 hamburger or $20 cheeseburger.

Response by LT Terry Williams made May 28 at 2015 8:11 PM

LT Terry Williams — Thu, 28 May 2015 20:11:58 -0400

This is simply not true.

While base pay is $18,561 (E-1) and $35, 416 (E-5 over 8) for 2015, once you include BAS and BAH that jumps to $29,799 and $50,502 respectively. (I calculated BAH and BAS with dependents). Let's also not forget that BAS and BAH is tax exempt - that equates to another 15% of spendable income.

You also need to factor in health care. Most of the burger flippers do not get any type of health care from their employers and must pay for health and dental out of their own pocket.

The burger folks also don't get education benefits. I don't know if you have looked at the post 9/11 education benefits, but they are very generous.

There are also a host of incentive pays: Career Enlisted Flyer Incentive Pay; Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay (Crew Member- Non-AWAC); Imminent Danger Pay/Hostile Fire Pay; HDIP (Parachute, Flight Deck, Demolition, & Others); Diving Pay; Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay (Non-Crew Member); and, Family Separation Allowance

Also, don't forget the Combat Zone Tax Exclusion.

The outrage expressed in the email is misplaced.

Response by SSG Paul Setterholm made May 28 at 2015 10:00 PM

SSG Paul Setterholm — Thu, 28 May 2015 22:00:36 -0400

When minimum wage was invented, it was to create a minimum living standard. If it had kept up with inflation, it would be around 22.45 an hour. Harvard university and MIT did a study of what would be a comfortable wage for the average American and they determined 22.45 also. Other countries like holland and Australia pay 20 plus an hour to fast food employees and their Big Macs are on .50 more than here so it can be done

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made May 28 at 2015 10:04 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Thu, 28 May 2015 22:04:26 -0400

I just found out Unions are exempt. After they paid people to protest. They have a loop hole in the law. They did the same with Obama care.

Response by SSG Paul Setterholm made May 29 at 2015 8:41 AM

SSG Paul Setterholm — Fri, 29 May 2015 08:41:04 -0400

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made May 29 at 2015 7:51 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Fri, 29 May 2015 19:51:36 -0400

Has anyone of your co workers say oh you volunteered? When commenting on disability pay?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 12:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:28:41 -0400

I always wanted to pay $15 for a burger....if minimum wage goes up so do prices...

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 5 at 2016 2:29 PM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 14:29:27 -0500

I think government should mind its own business. Is there any doubt why those businesses that can do a tax inversion are. Ms Clinton chastises Johnson Controls. I say there are some company officers who are properly executing their fiduciary responsibilities. If you want businesses to stay in America, stop beating them with a stick.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2016 6:50 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 06:50:03 -0500

There are two sides here... if you raisw the minimum wage. Then you get less people qualifying for low income housing in some states, and depending on the size of your household, food stamps, so there is a win when taking into consideration what the country spends on welfare programs. To argue Jennifer Harris's point.. E1 in the military (an entry level soldier, who is only in grade for a max of 6 months before getting a decent pay rase) gets free insurance, housing, food, and tuition assistance if he desires to go to college. This is something not readily available to civilians everywhere. Also, if that E1 or anyone of any rank were married or lived somewhere where housing was not available, they would get BAH, Separate Rats, in some cases COLA. Just saying...

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Apr 12 at 2016 12:09 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:09:22 -0400

I think people need to be careful of what they ask for, they just may get it.....

Response by LTC Paul Belobrajdic made Feb 24 at 2017 10:34 AM

LTC Paul Belobrajdic — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 10:34:29 -0500

The minimum wage discussion should not be at the Federal Level. This is wholly a State issue. The state needs to set the minimum wage throughout its commerce and adjust to whatever the market will bear. What an employee in North Dakota can earn is different than an employee in California can earn; based on COLA and other economic factors. So, by mandating a national minimum wage is pointless. In my example, the guy in North Dakota would soon be out of work with a "set" wage, if the economy couldn't support it and the guy in California would be making less money than he could. More power to the states; 10th Amendment strong.