What do you think is lacking in the Basic Training/ AIT process?

2017-05-10T01:00:47-04:00

I joined a little over five years ago, ever since I graduated my IET I keep hearing from senior leaders that soldiers arriving to the unit are less prepared/ trained upon competion of IET. What aspects of Basic Training do you personally think are no longer being taught or are no longer being enforced to the same standard as say 10-20 years ago? Idealy how could the system be fixed?

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made May 10 at 2017 1:55 AM

2017-05-10T01:55:57-04:00

Your always going to hear that point of view because generally earlier graduates want you to believe they had it tougher. I went through in 1982 back when the Drill Instructors still beat on the recruits, I remember low crawling under barbed wire while the Drill Instructors threw Artillery Blast Simulators at the slower recruits (fairly cruel and that would never be tolerated today). Having said all that and looking at the full Infantry OSUT course. Today's graduates have it tougher and more challenging because even though they eliminated some of the abuse........Ft. Benning was careful to replace it with more challenging training that was more relavent. Such as the administer IV to fellow soldiers part, the combative training (which unlike hand to hand is much more physically exhausting), all the hours we spent on Drill and Ceremony also trashed in favor of rubber shoot rooms. So Infantry OSUT is more physical today than it was when I went through and more relavent to a combat environment.........I would probably go a little farther and say it requires more physical fitness than in my day as well (1982).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 2:19 AM

2017-05-10T02:19:36-04:00

I joined around the same time you did.

I think it is the combination of the type of individuals that enter the force and the need for AIT/Basic to adapt in how to prepare a new soldier arriving to their gaining unit . It will come down to more than just teaching them level-one skills and MOS specialty to actually mentoring them on a personal development level on individual soft and hard skill. From being on both sides of the house I have seen that some can be impatient, self-entitled and some just want to skate without putting any real hard work and just earn the "participation trophy". I've seen it where average is awarded while the true hard workers stand in the shadows because of spotlight rangers but that's not the point.

The 21st century soldier can be as well tech savvy, confident, civic oriented, practical and result oriented. They need to know that their can only be one standard and not multiple held by biased judgement and favoritism. I knew who the favorites were and when I was not the one. Their should not be back channel grumbling because someone didn't get the trophy which is something I see constantly perhaps due to delayed gratification. I think what we can do is to keep them motivated and keep direct communication methods effective. They need to know what they signed up for and that the standard will not change for them but how they perform determines their career. I haven't been to BCT since March 2012 but I know not much has changed. In the end they look up to us as older brothers/sisters and we need to guide them even at times we aren't in the mood to.

I think pre-game for BCT/AIT would be appropriate in the following areas
-PT
-Mental toughness
-Team player
-DNC
-Initiative
-Competence to follow and lead.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 4:22 AM

2017-05-10T04:22:01-04:00

I believe newer Soldiers have been lacking discipline, military bearing, maturity, and responsibility.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made May 10 at 2017 8:29 AM

2017-05-10T08:29:54-04:00

How we just start with the minimum standard for the APFT upon graduation. Achieving that minimum standard requires several of the factors discussed already, discipline to work out and get more physical, heart, to continue regardless, and a multitude of other combinations and factors. I am not going to say that the PT was harder, but the Drills obviously had more fear power back in the day to "pump you up" to get you going. Knowing the rigors of the Army, before going to basic I started training as I was really out of shape going in at 222 pounds. I left basic 167 and a fighting machine. Not sure that is the result these days. maybe its the focus and direction of the Army or the inclusive idea that everyone is made for the Army. We all know that is not true. .02

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 8:35 AM

2017-05-10T08:35:31-04:00

Well from my point of view, I cannot say about combat arms, but I can tell you as a corporal I worked BCT at Knox for the regular BCT battalion, all males very high standards, as a Staff Sergeant I was cadre at Ft. Jackson again regular BCT but coed and the problems with male and female were amazing. Plus the standard had dropped by a factor of 10. Plus I have been several times to Ft. Lee which is mostly an AIT post and the standard there is very low. To me Ft. Lee AIT is almost like being in college or summer camp. I can't say about other post that have AIT or BCT.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 10:41 AM

2017-05-10T10:41:24-04:00

Pain and suffering

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 11:00 AM

2017-05-10T11:00:55-04:00

Almost all of our new guys, right out of AIT, have been saying that APFTs in both BCT and AIT get pencil-whipped if the Soldier cannot pass a PT Test. The training staff no longer want to hold Soldiers back and retrain them. They just send them to their first assignment, where they have to get "fixed."

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 12:56 PM

2017-05-10T12:56:06-04:00

This is a perpetual cycle that will always be in place. No new folks will ever be "as good and tough" as the older folks. Well, not until those new folks turn into the old folks. I am of course speaking for the AF. Id bet its the same story though. I say that because I'm currently in that realm and it is hands down more difficult than I remember when I was in their shoes.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 12:56 PM

2017-05-10T12:56:13-04:00

I have had two friends on the trail in the last few years. One friend is currently a drill sergeant and she said they have their hands tied a lot. So did my other friend. I tagged the one who is in a picture of a shark attack by drill sergeants. I asked her if they still get to do that. She said barely. She said they can't swear at them but around them.

It's quite obvious by some of the new soldiers I've gotten in the last few years that there has been a lapse in training. There are more soldiers failing PT tests straight out of basic/AIT. They don't seem to have discipline. The reason is that the drill sergeants are being handcuffed in what they can do. They aren't allowing them to break down these recruits and build them back up into soldiers. I went to basic in 2004 - things have changed by what I hear from drill sergeants and from people who come out of basic recently. The only way it gets better is they stop taking power from the NCOs - at basic and in the regular Army.

Response by LTC Trent Klug made May 10 at 2017 12:57 PM

2017-05-10T12:57:32-04:00

I surely hope this photo attached to the story is that of a Drill Sergeant holding the feet of another Drill Sergeant taking the APFT, and not of a IET or AIT soldier.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 1:30 PM

2017-05-10T13:30:09-04:00

Maybe it's time for the Army to raise their standards of potential Soldiers. If you haven't spoken to recruiters from the other services, they kind of pick and choose their future recruits. Just because a walk-in meets the minimum standard doesn't mean they should get accepted.

Response by SSG Robert Zierler made May 10 at 2017 8:28 PM

2017-05-10T20:28:46-04:00

I went thru boot camp in 1984, I have no idea what aspects of basic infantry they teach now.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 9:52 PM

2017-05-10T21:52:08-04:00

#1 thing I feel is lacking is pride. Without pride, discipline suffers. It snowballs from there. The new generations don't have a personal sense of pride to the degree of those before. They are becoming more reliant upon outside recognition for even the smallest thing/task done. They crave recognition for doing things that are expected which in turn, cheapens the recognition for things done beyond what's expected.
How to fix this? In my opinion, stop rewarding mediocrity. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Response by PFC Rob Gibson made May 11 at 2017 9:09 AM

2017-05-11T09:09:31-04:00

My son graduated osut from ft Benning last February. We compared stories about basic. I went to ft Sill in 1991. Training to be a 19k for him was much more controlled, strict, and relevant to the modern day battlefield. I was 13f 1/11 acr.

Response by SPC Justin Foster made May 17 at 2017 4:44 PM

2017-05-17T16:44:48-04:00

I would be willing to be that every generation of senior leaders has said this about the next generation of recruits since the beginning of the Army.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2017 5:00 PM

2017-05-17T17:00:28-04:00

I don't think the things that are missing can be taught. It takes life to do that.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2017 5:44 PM

2017-05-17T17:44:54-04:00

Sense of belonging and familiarity with the history of the Army for starters! Half of the soldiers these days don't even know what they should be proud of. Who is General Patton, Audie Murphy? They don't even know the significance of previous battles, what they did, or how they did it, let alone know when the Army celebrates its birthday. It is a huge honor to be considered a U.S. Soldier a (1%er). Our history is rich, and should be engrained into the brains of our knew Soldiers! There is so much down time that can be taken advantage of throughout basic training that it's ridiculous. Maybe that sense of pride would help our newer soldiers roll their shoulders back and hold there chins a little higher. Which in turn breeds a culture that allows peers to hold each other to the standards and Army Values that have been laid out before us! Just my two cents... SSG, Army National Guard

Response by SSgt Dwight Deatherage made May 17 at 2017 9:08 PM

2017-05-17T21:08:20-04:00

In 1974 I reported to AIT at Fort Rucker, AL. I was in Air Traffic Control school. It was like going to college all over again. We had no PT, no KP, no other assigned duties except to excel in class. Not sure how the rest of the Army did their training.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2017 10:33 PM

2017-05-17T22:33:43-04:00

I retired in 2011 - and just before the big day, I spoke with a shipmate that was a Company Commander (DI/DS). He told me that every cycle there were kids that had never had a pair of lace-up shoes - and had to be taught to tie them - Velcro had ruled their lives since they got their first pair of shoes.

On day one, they'd do a diagnostic PT test just to see where the new Recruits were starting at - and they split the Company up. Every cycle there were kids that couldn't run from one side of the gymnasium to the other - the SHORT way - let alone come close to doing more than 5 push-ups, sit ups, or completing the run.

This isn't touching on the kids that couldn't swim ("What do you mean that I gotta swim? This is the Coast Guard!!"), and had problems with authority figures.

When I went through Army OSUT in 1981, we had two kids that had NEVER owned a pair of shoes... had just pulled rubber boots over their feet so they could muck out the cow pens.

Nothing's really changed... just new names for old problems.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2017 12:30 AM

2017-05-18T00:30:53-04:00

Getting rid of suicidal Misfits like PFC Manning that should not have graduate from basic training and now he along with John Walker and Edward Snowden he is now one of the worst traitors ever. He also caused the untimely death of possibly thousands and probably has many had to flee the country because Isis and Al Qaeda found out through WikiLeaks.

Response by SSG John Jensen made May 18 at 2017 2:06 AM

2017-05-18T02:06:26-04:00

the 1st soldier in the history of the world said to the 2d soldier in the history of the world "you young guys have it easy"
I came up with that in the early 80's
I admit that I had it easy, most of us were medics, or truck drivers, one destined for an Army band. I have no idea what the new Basic is.
Except to remember Task Force Smith in the opening of the Korean War where they sent the clerks and the cooks into battle and were slaughtered, Which is Why We Have Basic Combat Training. So does the new give enough combat training to soldiers who are going to be non-combatants?

Response by SGT Chris Stephens made May 19 at 2017 12:39 PM

2017-05-19T12:39:51-04:00

Lack of good order and discipline are the biggest issue I see from new Soldiers. I don't think it has anything to do with basic, it's just that they revert back to the way they were as civilians where they disrespect those over them and think their phones are the most important thing in life.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made May 19 at 2017 12:50 PM

2017-05-19T12:50:07-04:00

Nothing is lacking in BCT/AIT. What is lacking is what they are supposed learn at home. To expect the DS to instill respect and show a young adult something they should have learned to home during the early years and fit that..and all of the BCT criteria into 8 weeks is not possible.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jan 31 at 2021 2:13 PM

2021-01-31T14:13:05-05:00

Of course they’re unprepared they’re High School recruits, having them prepared is your job.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Jan 26 at 2022 8:47 PM

2022-01-26T20:47:39-05:00

the 1st soldier in the history of the world said to the 2nd ever soldier in the world
"You young guys had it easy!"