What do you think is to blame for all of the recent Navy accidents?

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:32:01 -0500

USS John S. McCain, USS Antietam, USS FItzgerald, Air crashes, etc. The rise of naval incidents is alarming. What do you believe is the cause of these accidents? Please share any sea stories you have with any incidents.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2017 9:41 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:41:17 -0500

There are a lot of signs that point to some form of navigational spoofing through technical means. The Russians have reportedly been doing so in Moscow and near Sochi (where Putin has a dacha).
If so, it raises real questions about the capabilities of likely culprits, such as China or DPRK and how they are employing this and to what end.

Having said that, I am greatly vexed that in an age where Navy warships have a myriad of means to detect nearby contacts, that they are running into other vessels. Any technological explanations aside, a giant container ship isn't sneaking up on anybody. It is likely that beyond the men on sonar watch, the crew could hear the thing coming THROUGH THE HULL. Were there no lookouts on watch?
To this curmudgeon, it would appear to support my anecdotal observation that todays servicemembers are too reliant on technology, and figuring out things like navigation the old-fashioned way has become a lost art.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Dec 1 at 2017 10:05 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:05:42 -0500

I think the initial reports from the Navy's investigation covered it pretty well. On the Fitzgerald, a high operational tempo seemed to have lead to a complete breakdown of standard operating practices combined with either poorly trained or incompetent sailors and officers. That one was a case of the ship being broken. On the McCain, the Captain was actually trying to be nice and allowed the crew some extra rest before setting his Sea and Anchoring detail that should have been set by regulations at least an hour earlier. That left a junior enlisted at the helm instead of the Master Helmsman that would have had it. He was having some problems and a series of misunderstandings about what was being done to correct the problem actually made the problem worse. So again, I have to point to some poorly trained personnel as a cause like in the first one. I am also told that the 7th Forward goes to Sea seriously understaffed, which leads to the fatigue problem and also pushes the available bodies into jobs that they weren't fully trained to do.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 1 at 2017 12:00 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:00:08 -0500

Blame or responsibility? I put the major responsibility with Navy leadership. If you take people, train them halfway, put them in a stressful environment, work them 120+ hours a week, mess with their circadian rhythm, cut corners, etc. you guarantee yourself higher risks and a certain number of incidents. These conditions are the equivalent of drunk driving. I can remember a few of the near misses I had back in the day. So in maximizing OPTEMPO, we also maximize the likelihood of bad things happening. It's a known equation, hence I consider it an anticipated result. I call it the acceptable risk that you don't want to realize on your watch. So if the Navy is saying there's a zero incident goal, what they are doing is actively ensuring it will not be met. Major blame goes to Congress and the rest of the system that puts a huge pile of unfunded mandates on the Services. We do have some some acknowledgement of burning people out. Just look at the Blue/Gold (double crews) for the boomers.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Dec 2 at 2017 1:52 PM

SN Greg Wright — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 13:52:49 -0500

Simply put: the Navy asks too much of SWO's. They're ok with a lot of things and stellar at none. There needs to be dedicated ship-drivers, just like there's dedicated pilots, etc. At the very least, it should be required that SWO's sit for and pass the 3rd Mate's test with the Coast Guard. And can you f'n believe that the Navy doesn't teach ship-handling anymore? OR celestial navigation? They moved the focus away from driving ships to all the other boxes SWO's have to check. They simply don't have the time to be dedicated ship drivers. And this year, that rooster came home to roost.

Response by PO1 Jack Howell made Dec 3 at 2017 9:27 AM

PO1 Jack Howell — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 09:27:25 -0500

Lack of procedural compliance, inadequate training, inadequate funding, and inadequate manning.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Dec 3 at 2017 3:09 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 15:09:36 -0500

Improper drivers training on the bridge it takes acres to turn those ships around.

Response by SP5 Larry Morris made Dec 3 at 2017 6:20 PM

SP5 Larry Morris — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 18:20:27 -0500

most thing heppen like that because lack of good training