What do you think of a Soldier who won't salute the flag?

2014-12-13T11:33:14-05:00

Is this 'soldier' a candidate for counseling or would what we used to call "EMI" (Extra Military Instruction) be in order? Older members will know what I mean by EMI......basically it was s**t work designed to indicate extreme displeasure on the part of NCO's without resorting to documented disciplinary actions. How far would you go in correcting this soldiers behavior? Or would you simply write her off as a loss?

*NOTE* This post is a couple of years old, but I believe the question still has relevance. It begs the examination of the principles of personal responsibility and the responsibility of leadership in guiding the behavior of those under 'your' command. I will say that I have learned more from the responses than I did from the subject itself. I'm hoping that the discussion has helped others in active leadership roles to formulate effective and appropriate responses or better still preventive examples that will make sure this type of behavior isn't repeated. God Bless the USA!

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Dec 13 at 2014 12:06 PM

2014-12-13T12:06:36-05:00

PO3 John Jeter, the flag represents the country in the oath that she swore to defend. If she doesn't want to even salute the flag, how in the world are her feelings of disdain displayed in other more important aspects of her job? I'd consider separating her from the service.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 7:58 AM

2014-12-14T07:58:06-05:00

Here's the link, PO3 John Jeter: http://conservativetribune.com/soldier-wont-salute-the-flag/

I think that's a very poor attitude and counseling (at a minimum) is in order. As LTC Stephen C. said, now that this has blown up in social media and on the Internet, it could mean a LOT more than just counseling for this Soldier.

Here's the Disgusting Reason a Liberal "Soldier" Said She WON'T Salute the Flag

Kick her out.

Response by 1SG Frank Boynton made Dec 14 at 2014 8:34 AM

2014-12-14T08:34:32-05:00

It's one thing to absently mindedly fail to salute the flag, it's quite another to intentionally ignore it and then post pictures of yourself flaunting it. I guess the Drill Sergeant in me would be to admonish the offender, and explain the history behind saluting the flag. Attempt to instill a sense of pride in wearing the uniform and representing the best America has to offer. I don't think it's any different today than when I was in the Army. There are people serving that are doing it because they want the college benefits, or they want a warm place to sleep, but they are not committed to our thing. In her case, if I were her 1st Sgt, I'd have given her and administrative Article 15 (I don't know if they can still do that) and punished her with some extra duty and a trip to the base flag pole at every raising and lowering for a month.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 8:38 AM

2014-12-14T08:38:34-05:00

Never heard of EMI but I joined in 2004 so it may be well before my service generation. Love the concept of it.. but to your point.

Mr. CW5 Private RallyPoint Member, pointed out the PVT Sheffey ordeal that occurred earlier this year. While reprehensible and completely contradictory to the values that are instilled in us from our various service experiences, the PVT Sheffey issue make me think about this topic and while please do not think I am trying to defend her actions or the actions of my examples.

I can almost bet that about 99.9999% of us have been walking out of our work places at a 1700L and heard retreat. You have two choices walk outside and salute OR stay indoors until its over. While I know that staying in doors is a failure to render respect to the flag, however I have seen a group of service members standing at a door until it has passed (I have worked with all four major branches and have seen the same thing). I have also witnessed the polar opposite, where a Soldier has nearly ran outside to salute but in doing so I was reminded of the Keystone Cops.

I'm pretty sure we have all sat at a door waiting for retreat to end but at the same time we were smart enough not to put it on facebook. While I am not saying it right, I want to throw it out there that at one point or another we have failed to live up our values.

Response by Cpl Milton Davis made Dec 14 at 2014 9:13 AM

2014-12-14T09:13:13-05:00

Unless the flag is physically displayed in the presence of that individual & they are refusing to salute then I DONT see a problem...the Flag is symbolic & the salute of the Flag is a symbolic gesture that we can take to either extreme...

Response by SGT Jason Hartnett made Dec 14 at 2014 9:16 AM

2014-12-14T09:16:05-05:00

I say this person needs some motivational training..

Response by Cpl Milton Davis made Dec 14 at 2014 9:37 AM

2014-12-14T09:37:26-05:00

Sorry but I know many people of various ranks that have sat inside their cars or stood inside at the door until taps was over...the point is when revielle or taps is played you stop where you are...the fact that some openingly referred to it as hiding when we've all done it at some point...

Response by PFC Justin DuBois made Dec 14 at 2014 11:22 AM

2014-12-14T11:22:48-05:00

I didnt think there was a choice?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 12:12 PM

2014-12-14T12:12:54-05:00

Someone who refuses to salute our flag that serves in our military needs to be corrected. You can never write off someone as lost without first doing something about it or at least trying.

One of the greatest signs of disrespect, in my opinion, is to disrespect our flag which is so carelessly done in the media, among other places. When we let one of our own slide, it isn't hard to figure out why others feel they can as well.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Dec 14 at 2014 12:40 PM

2014-12-14T12:40:40-05:00

Well When a troop normally gets caught they are given a counseling then there life sucks for the next month or so as they go to every morning and evening color's in dress uniform. This was for the ones that heard color's and did the sprint to cover.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 12:45 PM

2014-12-14T12:45:13-05:00

I would write a counseling and give the soldier extra duty the first time this happened, if it occurred again I would push for the soldier to be discharged. If they won't even take time to salute, then are they really going to fight to defend it?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 12:56 PM

2014-12-14T12:56:35-05:00

Good topic, John! I would be as nice as I can be explaining the need of being respectful. If not, then make her do some homework. If that homework does not work, give him the worst jobs possible. Her!

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Dec 14 at 2014 1:17 PM

2014-12-14T13:17:56-05:00

I'm at a loss...Soldier WON'T salute??? I have never experienced this, but Unfortunately in this situation counseling with EMI would be appropriate, but if it does not correct the problem, then Soldier may be charged with insubordination and/or several other punitive provisions under the UCMJ and possibly discharged. Talk with your legal advisor. I would like to know how this plays out. Good Luck.

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Dec 14 at 2014 1:35 PM

2014-12-14T13:35:05-05:00

Document every action and build a chapter packet for the disrespecting POS, if they do not respect those who have served and fallen before us then how can i trust them to have my back?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 2:02 PM

2014-12-14T14:02:24-05:00

Frankly, I would counsel the "Soldier." Getting it in writing and showing all applicable regulations can help you on down the road if this issue is not resolved or other similar issues pop up.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 2:03 PM

2014-12-14T14:03:27-05:00

It is not optional. Refusing to salute the flag is a UCMJ offense (ART 92 Failure to Obey Order or Regulation).

If counseling does not work then I would talk to JAG and help them find a new line of work.

Response by SGT Charles Vernier made Dec 14 at 2014 2:08 PM

2014-12-14T14:08:14-05:00

An Article 15 isn't out of line here. NJP might seem a little excessive but publicly bragging about shirking your responsibity and disrespecting the very symbol of what you are supposed to stand for shows poor judgement at best. 30/30 and 1/2 pay will definitely get her attention.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 3:25 PM

2014-12-14T15:25:25-05:00

I think the salute issue is only part of the problem with this soldier. She also needs some schooling on appropriate use of social media, especially while in uniform. She is effectively in violation of AR 760-1, 3-7 k, which outlines prohibited wear of the Army uniform. Not only does she discredit the US Army, but also engaged in public demonstration by posting the selfie on line.

Unfortunately this is one of many examples of how our youth feel the need to 'dial it up to 11' in today's society. I don't know if there is an established link between the growth of social media and attention-seeking behavior, but it is a problem with civilian and military alike.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 11:23 PM

2014-12-14T23:23:58-05:00

I don't really understand the reasoning behind a Servicemember not saluting the Flag. I consider it a privilege.

What it comes down to, IMO, is a complete lack of respect for what the Flag stands for.

Could this be based in ignorance? Of course.

Does ignorance excuse the lousy behavior? Nope.

I like the corrective measures suggested in the above posters. Perhaps it would, at least, make the Servicemember think twice before disrespecting the Flag next time.

Unfortunately, once a person signs up for service, his or her habits and "respect level" has been occurring for quite some time. Re-parenting a person once they reach 18 years old is not the easiest job.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Dec 14 at 2014 11:44 PM

2014-12-14T23:44:12-05:00

I have several differing directions in my thoughts on this. I did, on occasion while serving, notice the time as I was about to exit a building or go outside aboard ship and delay my departure to avoid rendering honors. The overwhelming majority of those times, my hands were full and I just preferred the easier route of behavior. I never really felt like I was disrespecting anything or anyone. Never in my service of four years, did I feel it necessary to consciously PLAN my activities to avoid rendering honors. It's a small gesture with such a huge significance....... I'm disturbed that this "soldier" felt it necessary to develop a method for getting out of this......"onerous" duty. Then she felt safe enough to let everyone know about it and felt justified in trying to deflect the wrath she KNEW was about to descend for reasons she was aware of. I find myself visualizing a child thumbing her nose and chanting "I got away with this and you can't tell me I'm a bad girl!" To me it calls a question of her emotional maturity into being, as well as making me wonder how anyone can trust her judgment on professional matters that will affect the well being of her comrades. That is a matter of far more immediate import to me than her lack of respect for our flag and what it represents. Not everyone reveres tradition, duty, honor and sacrifice to the extent I and many of you out there do. I understand from another article that this matter has been attended to by her command "administratively". Whatever that may entail..... If nothing else I hope she grew up enough to learn to keep her chow-chomper shut at the appropriate time....... If I was her NCO, I believe I would require her to attend 1700 colors on each Friday in dress uniform for the next 6 months as an example. Only on Fridays, mind you.......

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2014 7:22 PM

2014-12-15T19:22:54-05:00

As far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as "writing it off". You correct the behavior, or you're contributing to the indiscipline that spreads like a cancer through the ranks, when left un-checked.

When it comes to correcting the behavior, you have to know the Soldier and the climate of the unit. Some units insist that you "document" everything on a formal counseling form. Others prefer to let NCOs "handle business" through corrective physical training. Also, if the "soldier" as you refer to her, is a constant behavioral problem, lacks all discipline and degrading to the unit (through her actions) then it's time to consider more drastic punishment.

All in all, the details shared here really aren't enough to make a solid recommendation. I will say this though... an enlisted member REFUSING to salute the flag is displaying a blatant lack of respect, honor or loyalty to that which we are sworn to defend. My gut reaction would be to mop the floor with her... but my professional stature would require that I take a step back and reassess the situation.

Response by SGT Edward Thomas made Dec 15 at 2014 7:28 PM

2014-12-15T19:28:28-05:00

When I was stationed in Alaska, the post flag had a circle around the pole. This circle was the "salute" zone. COL Needham's office allowed him to see if you did or didn't salute the flag. May God have mercy on your soul if you didn't salute it. So yes EMI is warranted. If you document it enough you can recommend Art 15 or Captains Mast.

Response by SPC Daniel Edwards made Dec 15 at 2014 10:37 PM

2014-12-15T22:37:10-05:00

I believe what you are referring to is getting "smoked." And yes, I may be recent compared to other soldiers my age who are seniors, but I still believe in smoking a soldier to punish them. Boy did I ever hate that. I now have an extreme amount more of respect and discipline for the military structure because of it than I did when I went to basic because of it. That soldier needs to respect the flag that he swore to protect or get the f@#$ out.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Dec 16 at 2014 5:31 AM

2014-12-16T05:31:00-05:00

Article 92 -- is this a hypothetical situation? Because if there's actually a question at the OP's command, there's a leadership failure somewhere.

Yes, you have a "choice" just as you have a "choice" in whether or not you say sir/ma'am, salute officers, go to PT, show up to work. The consequences for making the wrong choice should be commensurate with what's laid out in the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the various regulations and manuals.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Dec 16 at 2014 7:34 AM

2014-12-16T07:34:58-05:00

Not much. If they refuse to do that, what's next?

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 8:52 AM

2014-12-16T08:52:10-05:00

EMI

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 8:59 AM

2014-12-16T08:59:43-05:00

If i remember correctly one of my battles a while back told me he caught soldiers going indoors simply because they did not want to salute. That is one of the things i will not tolerate and will push every possible action through the chain of command

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Dec 16 at 2014 9:18 AM

2014-12-16T09:18:33-05:00

My question would be, why are they a soldier? If you do not want to show respect for the flag you chose to support, then why are you still serving? Get rid of this person.

Response by SGT James Hastings made Dec 16 at 2014 1:29 PM

2014-12-16T13:29:36-05:00

I have two questions that may have already been stated and I missed: 1. What did she state was her reason for not saluting the flag? 2. What does the code of military justice (if that is still being used) say about this?

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Dec 16 at 2014 2:02 PM

2014-12-16T14:02:14-05:00

What do I think? Without knowing the whole soldier? Ill disciplined... maybe a marginal soldier.

What action to correct... or attempt too.... counseling and creative corrective training... research on disobeying a written regulation (it is a written regulation as to what the proper conduct of soldiers during flag ceremonies and is taught in BCT)... importance of understanding the customs and courtesy concerning the flag... post flag detail... a few classes to the companies in the battalion... and the reason why "you" are giving those classes... you get the picture...

However, I would do this not so much for the soldier (criticize if you desire) but to serve as an example/lesson to other soldiers that this behavior is not tolerated. With that said, if the soldier learned their lesson and started soldiering again... that's gravy on the potatoes!

my 2 cents

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 2:42 PM

2014-12-16T14:42:06-05:00

Unless their arm was blown off or lost in some kind of attack do to the Army there should be no reason of why they won't salute the flag. Soldiers who choose to not salute the flag really do not know the true meaning of living in a free country and should really self-evaluate of why they joined the Army, also what the definition of an "Army" means. For both of my pregnancies I have been stopped by gate guard multiple times to salute the flag and I always do even though it took me forever to get out of my car. Some soldier riding with me one day told me that if you are on profile you don't have to salute the flag but I see that as being lazy. If you are a soldier, salute the flag, if not for the meaning, at least salute the organization for allowing you to join because there are a great deal of people who want to fight but can not.

Response by PO1 Henry Sherrill made Dec 16 at 2014 2:58 PM

2014-12-16T14:58:57-05:00

I would first counsel the soldier and let them know that not saluting the flag shows disrespect and she could receive even harsher disciplinary action should she continue to act in this manner. She swore an oath to obey the lawful orders of the officers and NCO's that, in my opinion, she has disobeyed. Showing respect for the flag is also a DOD Directive and she could face some real stiff penalties if they wanted to push it.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 3:05 PM

2014-12-16T15:05:08-05:00

I lost the bubble on this. Does anyone know what ACTUALLY did happen to this young Soldier? Was she reprimanded? Article 15? I am just curious given all this discussion.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 3:28 PM

2014-12-16T15:28:44-05:00

What do I think? I think I have no nice way to say GET THE FUCK OUT!

The flag represents the country in the oath that we swore to defend as well as the great men and women who gave their lives in its service. If she doesn't want to even salute the flag, how in the world are her feelings of disdain displayed in other more important aspects of her job?

At a minimum counseling and EMI should occur for the FIRST offense. On a repeated offense, prosecute under Article 134 and initiate separation under OTH conditions with a re-entry code of RE-4.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Dec 16 at 2014 10:42 PM

2014-12-16T22:42:52-05:00

Yesterday, I attended final services for a former SSG who survived multiple deployments to Iraq only to fall victim to a drunk driver who crossed the center line and hit them head on. Almost a dozen of his friends who had served with him (some still on active duty) were among the large number who attended. I was talking with them in the parking lot when this occurred. Our Patriot Guard Riders flag captain was placing the memorial flags for display in front of the funeral home. When the American flag staff was assembled and placed in position, to a man, they all turned and saluted. Even though the funeral home already had the flag on display, they rendered honors with dignity and feeling. I couldn't help but compare the attitude of this female soldier to these fine men.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Dec 17 at 2014 12:18 AM

2014-12-17T00:18:43-05:00

If they won't salute the flag, they shouldn't be in service. In fact, I would support a charge of treason and summary execution, but that might be a bit extreme.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Dec 17 at 2014 3:37 AM

2014-12-17T03:37:48-05:00

I'm assuming this is in response to the woman in the news. Put simply, article 92 hearing and a BCD. Anybody who refuses to salute the flag is not not fit to defend it, serve or live under it.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2014 6:08 AM

2014-12-17T06:08:09-05:00

I think it's quite disrespectful.. She's building gateway for other military members to stand against and not salute the flag they swore before.. Doesn't make sense. An action should be taken immediately

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2014 10:33 AM

2014-12-17T10:33:05-05:00

First it's our National Ensign, not a flag. Our National Ensign represents everything the United States of American has accomplished, the men and women that made our nation and constitution and the freedom it stands for. Any US military member failing to render honors as appropriate is failing to uphold their service branch of Core Values.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Dec 17 at 2014 11:59 AM

2014-12-17T11:59:59-05:00

It seems the epitome of conduct prejudicial to the "good order and discipline in the armed forces", so that there should be no doubt in any NCO's mind about taking corrective action, to include professional counseling directed at whatever parts of her chain of command are present and not taking corrective action on their own initiative.

But that's my take, and I'm certainly not part of the "all" who would hold just inside the door rather than take one step out and snap to. I enjoy and take pride in saluting that flag.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2014 12:28 PM

2014-12-17T12:28:56-05:00

As an American, you have the right to respect or to not respect the American flag as you please. However, as an American service member, you do not have that right.

I would pull that soldier aside and figure out what the reasoning was behind not rendering salute. If it was admittedly an accident, it is one thing. However, if it comes to light that this service member is harboring hatred or disgust with serving our country, or just disgust for the country as a whole, I have no problem doing what is within my power to start the chapter paperwork and reporting them to whichever agency is necessary to ensure this SM will not compromise our Nation's security. I have no interest in, and I'm sure most of us can agree, serving alongside someone who has no love for America. They do not deserve to wear the same uniform I wear so proudly. They can get out and continue their hatred elsewhere

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Dec 17 at 2014 2:47 PM

2014-12-17T14:47:44-05:00

So...what were the reasons?

I mean, I'm not saying she's right, but what in the world made her THINK she was right?

Response by PFC Earl Herman made Dec 17 at 2014 3:06 PM

2014-12-17T15:06:15-05:00

Active Duty and in Uniform and fails to salute the Flag?? I think EMI would certainly be in order.

Response by SSG Dan Wuollet made Dec 18 at 2014 11:27 AM

2014-12-18T11:27:40-05:00

Front leaning rest position move and stay there until you can be a soldier .

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2014 2:43 PM

2014-12-18T14:43:21-05:00

I mean, i get it, most of us have dodged, ducked, dipped, dived, and dodged retreat by "forgetting" something in your locker or suddenly realizing how badly you "have to pee" and gaining that urgency in your step. The part that's sickening is the absolute disrepect she is showing by being kicked back and displaying he lack of care all about the internet. Maybe that's where we're failing, by trying to pretend we like the rules, trying to enforce them, while we ourselves are bending them as far as we can.

Response by CPT Jeff Reichardt made Dec 18 at 2014 3:28 PM

2014-12-18T15:28:51-05:00

I was stationed once at Tripler. At Retreat one evening, I caught a "butter bar" trying to run to a building to avoid rendering the proper respect. I roared at him to halt. I then ordered him to present arms. After Retreat and to the colors was played, I put him in the leaning rest. He tried to tell me I couldn't do it. I told him this was a direct order. For the next 30 minutes, I left him in the leaning rest, as I recited some of the most devastating battles we have fought through our history. It attracted a bit of a crowd. Once I was done with this on-the-spot correction, I allowed him to recover. (And to remove himself from my presence.) As I turned to go to my vehicle, clapping began....especially from the enlisted....BTW, I was a Captain at the time..but I was 23 years enlisted.

Response by CPT Jeff Reichardt made Dec 18 at 2014 3:30 PM

2014-12-18T15:30:48-05:00

On the spot correction, the old way.

Response by CPT Jeff Reichardt made Dec 18 at 2014 3:32 PM

2014-12-18T15:32:46-05:00

On the spot correction, the old way

Response by PO1 Michael Fullmer made Dec 18 at 2014 3:41 PM

2014-12-18T15:41:48-05:00

The individual enlisted/reenlisted of their own volition. Everything up to and including separation from the service should be on the table. Failure to render proper honors, is messed up. If they don't like it, they should get out.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2014 4:12 PM

2014-12-18T16:12:05-05:00

No reason for him/her to wear a uniform. Appropriate "EMI", if it doesn't work then he/she needs to move on. We swear an allegiance to the U.S. Constitution of which the American flag is a symbol. If an individual prefers to exercise his/her "right" not to overtly show this allegiance, then he/she needs to be a civilian where they can properly exercise that right. An old saying in the Army still stands true--"We don't exercise our constitutional rights, we defend them." No room for political activists in the U.S. military.

Response by CSM Tony Bowen made Dec 18 at 2014 4:37 PM

2014-12-18T16:37:09-05:00

Did he refuse to salute the flag and is it his beliefs he does not have to or was it my mind was elsewhere and wasn't thinking?
If it is something he refuses to do than he needs to go!
I'm sorry but you swore in to defend that flag and regulations state how, when, where to give her, her due respect.
You don't want to do that than "SEE YA"

Response by SMSgt Stephen Winner made Dec 18 at 2014 4:37 PM

2014-12-18T16:37:11-05:00

Bust the soldier to E-1, strip of all benefits and earnings, give a BCD.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Dec 18 at 2014 5:15 PM

2014-12-18T17:15:28-05:00

There is only one group I know of where there is a direct long standing reason for not saluting flags or making secular pledges, and that is the Jehovah's Witness. Quakers used to get in trouble for refusing to bow or remove their hats, but I don't think that extends to pledges and flags.

Without some known religious restriction, those who don't are either being irreverent or making a statement against the country they live in.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2014 5:22 PM

2014-12-18T17:22:05-05:00

We have to be careful about this in the AF and I don't know how similar it is for NCOs in other branches. I cannot impose anything that would construed as a punishment. Training them to become better at what they do is another story. It's all in how it's presented.

So, I'll jump right in not knowing anything about the backstory. Keep mind, if they told me they don't like the US when questioned this story would go very differently.

First, I would find out what's going on with the individual and document the incident. If I don't document the problem I'm hindering the process of sending them packing if it comes down to that later. I would teach them some history and explain why we do what we do if it's necessary. There would definitely be some "training" after normal duty hours or on a day off. (The problem is, they already know this stuff) If I was unable to motivate them or acquire the desired response they would be going to visit the 1st Sgt. all while I'm maintaining a paper trail of counseling and reprimands for failure to follow clearly defined customs/courtesies and anything else they mess up. Odds are, this probably not the only thing they are doing wrong. Dirt bags are usually well rounded! If they continue to refuse, the paper trail will assist the commander in expediting their trip home to mommy and civilian life.

I hate paperwork! There I said it. However, I've learned that documentation is what our commanders need to weed out the bad apples when they refuse our assistance. I would hate for someone like this to get an extra year or so collecting a paycheck and benefits because I don't like to do paperwork and then they got passed off to another NCO. Or worse if they were in fact a sympathizer of another country or group. This is potentially big problem. Then again it could just be a dumb kid.

I will do everything I can to get to the bottom of it. I will teach, "train" them, and document using my best judgment. I think that's fair.

Response by CW2 Geoff Lachance made Dec 18 at 2014 5:25 PM

2014-12-18T17:25:11-05:00

I remember a time when going through Advanced NCO school. We were in formation during retreat. A soldier farted (pretty loud). We all started laughing. The Tac NCO's came unglued!!! One of them was nearly in tears explaining his loyalty to the flag, what it stood for, how many died in the history of this great nation to keep it flying and so on. We were all extremely humbled. We spent that night researching the history of the American Flag, the colors and what they stood for and those who sacrificed all for it. We each had to stand one at a time during breakfast with our brief presentation. I cannot believe how much that one event changed my loyalty to this great nation. I was always loyal, but never as emotionally charged as I was after.

I would suggest the soldier start by watching on YouTube, the story of the the writing of our National Anthem. Brings tears to my eyes every time i watch it!

God Bless this great Nation and those who keep it free!

Response by SN Craig Ralston made Dec 18 at 2014 5:56 PM

2014-12-18T17:56:25-05:00

Absolutely! This person signed up to DEFEND the USA and part of being in the service is showing the utmost respect for the flag. As a NCO I would be so offended if I witnessed one of my people refusing to saluting the flag.

Response by SrA Scott Harris made Dec 18 at 2014 7:18 PM

2014-12-18T19:18:35-05:00

Ok. I must be blind. I've looked at the photo and I can't tell who isn't saluting.

Response by PO1 George Toft made Dec 18 at 2014 10:09 PM

2014-12-18T22:09:41-05:00

Counseling, then discharge under other than honorable conditions.

Response by SGT J.b. Riggs made Dec 18 at 2014 11:32 PM

2014-12-18T23:32:34-05:00

Back in my day early Eighties wall to wall counseling would have been the first impulse LOL

Response by CPL Jay Freeman made Dec 19 at 2014 1:12 AM

2014-12-19T01:12:47-05:00

this happened awhile ago but if it where a dude she would be knocked the f**k out and waking up under another countries flag maybe she will salute that one. Many of men and women have given there lives for this flag and how dare she so
be so open about not saluting it

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 2:13 AM

2014-12-19T02:13:42-05:00

I realize some regulations may have changed since I left Active Duty, but I'm pretty sure that if soldiers weren't required by doctrine to salute the flag, we'd have heard about it before now.

Response by SCPO Rich Williams made Dec 19 at 2014 12:36 PM

2014-12-19T12:36:23-05:00

In this time of age it is basically everyone that is doing something like this is wanting attention to themselves. After a set down with me she would have only one chance than I would be working to out her. To many have died in the line of duty not to have a solider/sailor not to support and salute the American Flag not an Option.

Response by AA Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2014 6:06 AM

2014-12-20T06:06:31-05:00

Frankly I think he's an idiot and a scumbag to show such disrespect to a symbol of freedom that so many of his brothers who wore the same uniform as him laid down their lives for. If I where his boss, I'd do my best to get him discharged.

Response by CPL Charles S. Boyd made Dec 20 at 2014 6:11 AM

2014-12-20T06:11:18-05:00

Get the fuck out of our military. ... won't salute the flag damn

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2014 9:07 AM

2014-12-20T09:07:42-05:00

This is just blatant disrespect, and the person needs to go. Those type actions spread faster than cancer. This person took an oath to this country. The freaking United States Armed Forces, is a all volunteer. Which means, you chose to be here. So if you chose to be here it means you chose to follow the rules as such. If you can't do as such GTFO.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2014 12:51 PM

2014-12-20T12:51:34-05:00

Yeah the military is becoming more "civilianized". We use to be the counter-culture, steeped deeply in our traditions of rendering honor and defending our nation. However, as we move forward we are trying too hard to mirror civilian society as we are allowing troops to skate on violating the most basic courtesies of the military. If this person is still serving as a Soldier, then the Chain of Command and NCO Support Channel that she falls under are totally to blame and they condone her behavior. It's sad really when you think about it. When you sign up for service you should be doing it to be a part of something that is bigger than self interest. But, nowadays it seems that the military is full of self interest and not a collective interest of defending our nation.

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Dec 21 at 2014 1:12 PM

2014-12-21T13:12:30-05:00

If it was blatant disrespect of the flag or pledge get rid of her immediately. She clearly just wants to do her own thing. Dishonorable discharge if it were up to me. Unfortunately treasonist deserters don't even get a dishonorable discharge. They get $300,000.00 back pay, combined with his VA benefits .... Wait I have to vomit this dark road makes me sick. Get rid of her .

Response by PO2 Thed Nome made Dec 21 at 2014 4:44 PM

2014-12-21T16:44:33-05:00

I remember EMI ... did 6 weeks myself when I was young and stupid... sounds like she is a good candidate for that.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Dec 21 at 2014 6:14 PM

2014-12-21T18:14:21-05:00

Now why doesn't the "paint locker" no longer exist?

Response by PO2 Dee Wayne made Dec 21 at 2014 9:43 PM

2014-12-21T21:43:41-05:00

The flag is nothing to me. I carry my pride, respect, etc... In a different way. I view it as more of a cult object than a necessary symbol worthy of respect. Burn it. Defecate on it. Flip it off. We are not only free in the way others think we should be and it has nothing to say about where our hearts are really at. I say let her be.

Response by PO3 Nicolas Valles made Dec 22 at 2014 7:46 AM

2014-12-22T07:46:07-05:00

I think we're all guilty for trying to dodge the flag during colors. I've seen my old CO wait outside a P-way until colors was over. I think people are blowing it out of proportion.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 11:13 AM

2014-12-22T11:13:21-05:00

This kind of situation makes me angry. Very disappointing to see fellow soldiers act this way..respect is one of my big attributes and pet peeves. If someone is disrespectful to the flag, our country, or military, etc..I don't like it. This is not ok. I would say take disciplinary action, document it and EMI (which I haven't heard it called that). We need to set examples and enforce respect and discipline in all who serve. We have all made mistakes, done stupid things we wish we hadn't done and gotten our asses chewed, but we learned from them (hopefully). She needs to learn that what she did was unacceptable and highly disrespectful. Maybe give her a history lesson and writing assignment on the importance, history and symbolism of our flag.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 7:59 AM

2014-12-23T07:59:05-05:00

God.

Response by SFC Timothy Dingman made Dec 23 at 2014 12:29 PM

2014-12-23T12:29:39-05:00

When I was in the Marine Corps, one of the 11 General Orders (my guts says the 10th?) was that I'd "salute ALL colors and standards not cased"; not to do so would be punishable because it's a "General Order" not to mention that it was punishable under UCMJ.

I do believe I remember that Sailors had the same/similar G.O.s. I know for a fact/experience that it ISN'T in that Army G.O.s or NCO/Soldier Creeds.

Response by SCPO Greg Lees made Dec 24 at 2014 7:09 PM

2014-12-24T19:09:54-05:00

I would definitely counsel her in writing and give her EMI. I would definitely talk to the base CMC and put her on morning and evening colors detail for at least 30 days. That would be in addition to the written essay on courtesies and traditions for the National Ensign.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Dec 24 at 2014 8:40 PM

2014-12-24T20:40:38-05:00

Refusing to salute Old Glory offends me. Any SM who refuses to salute Old Glory needs to be removed from the military service.

Response by SPC Janet Davenport made Dec 24 at 2014 10:52 PM

2014-12-24T22:52:07-05:00

If she cannot show respect toward the flag that she vowed to respect then she should no longer be a soldier!

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 10:55 PM

2014-12-25T22:55:24-05:00

A soldier who won't salute the flag should face disciplinary actions. Period.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 3:26 AM

2014-12-30T03:26:29-05:00

I think the question is why...is she putting this on facebook? I get it she doesn't want to salute the flag. Get her on that but is anybody question why the heck would you brag about it on facebook? I mean... not saying she's stupid but... maybe she needs to go back to boot camp? She didn't get the memo obviously.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 11:11 PM

2014-12-30T23:11:13-05:00

If you signed you salute! Easy as that.

Response by SSG Mark Ives made Dec 31 at 2014 12:35 PM

2014-12-31T12:35:01-05:00

I'm a parent and been out for a while, so I've mellowed out (out 24 years!). Put her on flag detail for a couple weeks and maybe have her give a class to her company on flag etiquette and history. Point should be to straighten her attitude out. She's only a PFC, so want to salvage her, IMHO.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 2:59 PM

2014-12-31T14:59:09-05:00

Looks like that her parents totally failed...and that she 2nd welfare generation

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Dec 31 at 2014 4:04 PM

2014-12-31T16:04:43-05:00

Haven't read any responses yet. But if I was her 1sgt I would have her out standing 20' from the flag pole twice a day for a month or two. I would also have her do a research paper on why we salute the flag, acquire the number of soldiers who have died for their country since the inception of Betsy Ross's flag.
The flag is the icon of the American spirit and way of life.
As I have always said "America love it OR leave it!"
I love my country just don't like my government.

Response by CDR Mike Kovack made Dec 31 at 2014 5:15 PM

2014-12-31T17:15:47-05:00

Oh, I see what's going on now. Staying inside a building or something until after colors. That's not a big deal. Bragging about it - stupid. I'm assuming we've got an immature kid here. Counseling.......;)

Response by PO1 Michael G. made Dec 31 at 2014 6:46 PM

2014-12-31T18:46:17-05:00

PO3 John Jeter Not that I have had a lot of (or any) experience in disciplining a subordinate in the military, I did have to do so in the civilian world. I would like to think that there are few people who are a so-called "total loss," so I would do my best to still try and correct her. As a manager for a civilian corporation, I would find assignments that would underline the infraction. For example, I had an employee who consistently put shirts back incorrectly, and it got to the point that she was doing so to annoy me and the store manager. So, I had her re-do the entire shirt wall every day before we left after closing.

In the same vein, for this soldier, I would suggest morning and evening colors detail. Perhaps permanently. Maybe that will make the point.

Response by SGT Drue Rockwell made Jan 1 at 2015 12:55 PM

2015-01-01T12:55:26-05:00

For my part, having grown up outside the country, having come here and fallen in love with what this country stands for...I have zero respect or mercy for this type of behavior. I don't expect honor guard standard in everything with everyone, but basic courtesy, respect, and dignity? Yes. Those are absolute musts. She should be given a counseling at the very least...

Response by PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster made Jan 1 at 2015 5:58 PM

2015-01-01T17:58:59-05:00

BCD for disrespect or Admin Sep ASAP

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Jan 2 at 2015 11:40 AM

2015-01-02T11:40:18-05:00

Get rid of her. While waiting for the separation to process put her on the detail of participating in funeral detail folding and presenting the flag to the family members of the soldiers who died defending it.

Response by PFC Joshua Schiefelbein made Jan 2 at 2015 12:50 PM

2015-01-02T12:50:59-05:00

Shouldn't have taken away NCOs ability to smoke soldiers. This one is a prime candidate for corrective training, sweating out her disrespect while she relearns some military values. These Facebook warriors make me sick. You can't complain about the world not giving you respect when this is the kind of crap you put forward.

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Jan 2 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-01-02T13:02:00-05:00

Documentation every time in a case like this. That way if it continues to be an issue you can move up from documentation to disciplinary measures. However, if you have a really crapoy command like I did, it doesn't matter how much you document the military member, a lot of times it gets swept under the rug.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Jan 3 at 2015 5:28 AM

2015-01-03T05:28:46-05:00

Dishonorable discharge after UCMJ

Response by Sgt Bryon Tulee made Jan 3 at 2015 11:40 AM

2015-01-03T11:40:17-05:00

I'd bet she's a pacifist too...

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Jan 3 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-01-03T11:53:56-05:00

I would give her Hours and Hours of Super High Intensity Training. (S.H.I.T.) She would really be trained to salute and respect the Flag after I finished

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2015 12:19 PM

2015-01-03T12:19:48-05:00

She's a shit bag and a loss -- perfect candidate for separation, IMO.

Anyone know her MOS by chance?

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Jan 3 at 2015 12:46 PM

2015-01-03T12:46:32-05:00

I have had two commanders take action on this very issue. One was a decorated Veitnam Vet. One commander had the soldier write a 500 word essay on the importance of Old Glory and what it represented. We didn't have Internet so it was done by hand with hours of research at the library. The other commander put the soldier on flag detail for a month on our military reservation. 0600 and 1700 7 days a week for a month. He lived on the main post and had to drive out to our little installation for each. Both punishments were very effective. This is a case of an immature kid posting stupid acts of Facebook for he non-military friends back home to see. I don't think she is treasonous, just acting stupid. I presented my mom with my grandfathers flag as part of the American Legion, I teach Boy Scouts the importance of the flag. My scouts have recited the Pledge of Allegence as much as five times in a row for not acting appropriately during the pledge. I have been on several honor guard details in the army. As a veteran I am proud that I am able to salute the flag in civilian clothes. The young kid needs to be reminded of what that flag stands for. Her leaders need to show her pictures of their friends that have given their lives for that flag, and maybe it will sink in. This is not an act that justifies discharge, just some EMI.

Response by MSgt Dennis Dudley made Jan 3 at 2015 1:20 PM

2015-01-03T13:20:06-05:00

Let me start by saying, I vehemently disagree with her not saluting the flag. Her sense of pride and commitment to what we stand for, just seem to be out of whack.

Is there a rule or regulation that REQUIRES that she salute the flag. I am only asking because, it was something I never had to think about. I just do it out of pride in country and service. If there is no rule, there isn't much you can do.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 3 at 2015 6:12 PM

2015-01-03T18:12:52-05:00

There are few individuals I know who would be totally disgusted including myself. We don't have to be patriots about this but we all need to understand all the blood and sweat that was shed for Old Glory. We need to appreciate the sacrifices that were made.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 1:31 AM

2015-01-04T01:31:29-05:00

I don't necessarily think she WOULDN'T salute the flag, everybody is reading to much into it. Do I think she's wrong of course but I also think she's a young soldier that is just trying to get away with not following the rules. Now she definitely would need to be counseled and be made to stand outside supervised saluting the flag.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 9:02 AM

2015-01-04T09:02:09-05:00

Is she refusing because she's lazy or because she dislikes the flag and what it sends for? Either way, not Army material. Kick her out!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 10:17 AM

2015-01-04T10:17:16-05:00

Plainly, this is not a soldier. This an example of a self-centered, civilian wearing an Army costume. No integrity, no honor, no respect. Id slap a failure to adapt on her, and give her the rest of her life to sit in her car to be a disrespectful PFC...Private Fu*%ing Civilian.

Response by Sgt Erle Mutz made Jan 4 at 2015 2:01 PM

2015-01-04T14:01:27-05:00

IF a soldier (ANY Military representative!) was "disrespectful enough" to NOT salute their country's flag - how committed would that soldier be to the 'oath' they took upon entering, and "I" would have NO confidence that I could count on "that soldier" in a 'tight' or 'urgent' situation where it depended on life or death (mine or anyone else's) !!!!! I would steer clear of that person at every opportunity. If they're already 'out' of basic training - then "Extra Military Instruction" (a "code red" [OMG - did I just say that?] might be somewhat motivational) may not be enough to get that person - back on track. You either 'want' to represent your 'branch' and country or you don't! A 'free meal ticket' is sometimes the only motivation for some people to join the military. Sad! Having said that - there is also the other side of the coin. Some people have no other chance to get out of a bad situation (at home) and their intention is born, not 'out necessity of room n board', but of a "better way of life" and (in almost all cases) THAT person's commitment level will be driven from loyalty and motivation, not to mention pride for their branch, MOS, and respect (both ways) from a solid military career (no matter how long).

Response by PO2 Katie Benson made Jan 4 at 2015 5:02 PM

2015-01-04T17:02:44-05:00

Ew! What's the point of being a soldier and defending the country if you won't solut a symbol that stands for our country?

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Jan 4 at 2015 6:36 PM

2015-01-04T18:36:50-05:00

I would have a talk with this soldier and go from there. If soldier does not follow the rules I would discharge this individual and make sure they loose their benefits etc.

Response by Sgt Vance Bonds made Jan 5 at 2015 10:44 PM

2015-01-05T22:44:13-05:00

The military isn't the place to be if you have no intention of pledging allegiance. This isn't a game or a dodge. This is the very serious business of carrying forward the national traditions, values, and honor for others to enjoy. If you can't or won't embrace that then you need to leave the military. Each American Flag holds within it the spirit of those brave and honorable men and women who stood the wall that the rest couldn't or wouldn't. We are respected because of our pride in duty and our willingness to go farther than the rest to protect this nation.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 7:02 PM

2015-01-06T19:02:53-05:00

Team,
I salute the FLAG every morning with my Soldiers, Commander and Platoon Leaders at 0630 for PRT. My Soldiers are disciplined, motivated, love Military tradition, and nearly half of them in my unit of 200 are straight out of AIT. This is an example of a Soldier not living the Army Values. Good Soldiers are those that are willing to do what is right even when no one is looking, and taking the HARD Right over that EASY Left. In today’s Army we are doing more with less and our time is very precious. NCO’s spend 90% or more of their time with the troubled Soldiers and only about 10% of their time with the rest of the Soldiers, that really deserve their attention. I don’t like it when Soldiers are knowingly doing something wrong and brag about it through social media. This Soldier deserves attention in this case; because she totally admits that she DOES Not Care. Counseling absolutely and if they were an NCO it would reflect greatly on their evaluation as an NCO. Serving in the Army is more than just drawing a paycheck every month; it is a way of life. I would not have made it 26 Years if I didn’t care about “LDRSHIP” (Army Values), and Soldiers. I don’t think Soldiers would like it if I said I just don’t care about them and blasted it across SKY NET for everyone to read. This Soldier and any Soldiers that have this frame of mind might want to take a very hard look at their future and what they are really serving in the Army for. Show some respect and honor to our nation, no matter where we are serving in this world. Word to the wise, do not tread on our Colors, Old Glory, because these Colors do not RUN.

Mission First, Soldiers Alway's

1SG Graham

Response by Arioney Gomes Firmino made Jan 6 at 2015 10:01 PM

2015-01-06T22:01:51-05:00

I would do an internal punishment without the intention of soiling their case , would be the warning that she should remain on good behavior.

Response by SGT DeAndre Benson made Jan 23 at 2015 11:18 PM

2015-01-23T23:18:22-05:00

I think any member of the military that doesn't salute the flag is in the wrong business. A salute to the flag shows respect for your country as well as the colors...jmo!!!

Response by SSG Thomas McBriarty made Jan 30 at 2015 7:45 PM

2015-01-30T19:45:25-05:00

Peace of crap, not a soldier!!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 7:49 PM

2015-01-30T19:49:18-05:00

I just don't understand why you wouldn't salute the ensign....I mean what do you think your fighting for.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Jan 30 at 2015 7:58 PM

2015-01-30T19:58:58-05:00

This "thing", I sure can't say soldier, has disgraced and dishonored all of us, our country, and our way of life. At this moment I can not think of any punishment bad enough to fit this "CRIME"!!!!!

Response by SPC Kerry Edwards made Jan 30 at 2015 8:48 PM

2015-01-30T20:48:01-05:00

Discharged

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 4:56 PM

2015-02-05T16:56:25-05:00

Jail sounds like a good thought.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 5:21 PM

2015-02-19T17:21:55-05:00

PO3 John Jeter I was at Eglin and I saw several Airmen running into the building when they heard the "sound". It was very sad.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 15 at 2015 4:03 PM

2015-04-15T16:03:18-04:00

And we know this lady is liberal because.....?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-04-15T16:08:56-04:00

This subject is tired. This Soldier was clearly confused on where loyalty, duty honor and respect lay....lets move on. She is an E3.. trainable.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 4:40 PM

2015-04-15T16:40:15-04:00

PFC Sheffey, PFC Manning, PFC Bergdahl, damn privates making us look bad!! PO3 John Jeter

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Apr 15 at 2015 4:47 PM

2015-04-15T16:47:31-04:00

Hiding out during retreat is one thing but taking a selfie of yourself laying down in your car while you do it, what an idiot.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 6:43 PM

2015-04-15T18:43:17-04:00

EMI, stand watch at your workplace outside main entrance, saluting those who come in or out for a set time. Saluting is a form of respect, not just regulation when saluting an officer, and assuming I hear from others how proper my sailor, I`d feel the problem has been solved, and remind the sailor Uncle Sam can see twitter and the what not internet posting on stupid.

Point to discipline, or punishment as it is rarely is supposed to be called, is to fix the problem or bad character of the individual. Counseling the one time is risky, may just get the person to hide the issue better. The same can be said about EMI, but if said sailor wasn`t standing proper watch they were assigned for the EMI, it will lead further watches till they figure its easier to show respect properly.

Response by SGT Bobby F. made Apr 15 at 2015 7:03 PM

2015-04-15T19:03:01-04:00

I can think of exactly zero reasons anyone that volunteers to wear "The Uniform" (whatever their branch may be) to not salute the flag. If you don't have the pride, discipline and basic respect to give our colors the salute, what're you doing in our military?

For this particular Soldier, some kind of admonishment needs to happen. The hundreds of people liking that photo need to have a conversation, as well.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 8:27 PM

2015-04-15T20:27:04-04:00

Prime example of this disgusting entitlement generation that we are trying to keep out of the military. In my opinion, destroy her. Maybe her deploy ignorant ass immediately. Obviously she needs to carry and M4 and kick doors in for awhile too. Obviously she needs to sacrifice for this country. Then again, she's already displayed that she's not worthy to die for this country. So in essence, busted down to PVT. Half pay for 3 months. And I'd like a 2000 word essay on patriotism, the history of the American flag, and why the custom of saluting is important in the military. If she fails again like she's failed at life already, then I'd take it a step further with barracks restriction, and more forfeiture of pay and allowances. Problem these days, is we do not punish adequately so morons like her think they can do and say whatever they please.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Apr 16 at 2015 12:18 AM

2015-04-16T00:18:04-04:00

LCpl Hector Verduzco If you wish to down vote that is certainly your option. I would however, appreciate the common courtesy of a note or statement as to why you chose to do so. You may have a view on the subject I haven't considered or we might simply disagree. Either way, if you don't speak up we'll never know. Thanks!

Response by MSG David Chappell made Apr 16 at 2015 10:59 AM

2015-04-16T10:59:36-04:00

PT her until it kills someone else

Response by BG David Fleming III made Apr 16 at 2015 11:08 AM

2015-04-16T11:08:41-04:00

Hopefully someone in her chain reads her post and she never gets beyond the rank of PFC! if I were in her chain, she wouldn't be able to lift her right arm when I got done training her how to salute!!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 11:09 AM

2015-04-16T11:09:55-04:00

Looks to me like we have a volunteer for raising and lowering the base flag every day (including weekends) for a few months.

Response by SPC Nate Lamphier made Apr 16 at 2015 2:50 PM

2015-04-16T14:50:32-04:00

When I got out of the Army and went back into teaching, I still found myself on Fort Riley for numerous reasons. Most times though I was on post at 1700 for golf. Whether that was on the golf course or on the driving range, everyone would stop what they were doing and face the direction of the flag. Even civilians would pay their respects.

Every once in awhile someone would come flying into the barracks trying to dodge the salute....1SG Bridges would not only escort these guys outside for a proper salute....he'd ruin their evenings.

It was an honor to salute that flag while in uniform and it chaps my ass when I read of people disrespecting that honor. There is no doubt in my mind this selfish act is not an isolated incident by this individual.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 4:20 PM

2015-04-17T16:20:16-04:00

I would push for an article 15 so hard and as fast as possible...there's no place in the army for disrespect to out flag that we fight for...

Response by SGT Donald Guest made Apr 17 at 2015 4:21 PM

2015-04-17T16:21:40-04:00

Send her home with a bill for her service education

Response by SSG Leander Metcalf made Apr 26 at 2015 5:52 AM

2015-04-26T05:52:48-04:00

The local military police should take a copy of the post go to the service members unit place her under apprehension and charge her for conduct unbecoming at the very least. I am sure that there are several general orders which she has violated also.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2015 4:03 PM

2015-05-13T16:03:32-04:00

If she can't salute the flag her brothers and sister die for and what it stands for why is she even in the military kick her ass out

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 5:29 PM

2015-06-03T17:29:32-04:00

She should be court Marshall.

Response by PO3 Jennifer McMullin made Jun 4 at 2015 1:32 AM

2015-06-04T01:32:24-04:00

I'll admit that when I was 17 and on active duty I would run for a building to avoid standing at attention saluting for a few minutes. Now? I'd be proud.

Response by MSgt Mike Brown; MBTI-CP; MA, Ph.D. made Jun 14 at 2015 4:31 AM

2015-06-14T04:31:51-04:00

How about a BCD? Maybe that would cause her to reflect on her snotty belligerent attitude, Or perhaps a counseling session with General Mattis...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2015 5:01 AM

2015-06-14T05:01:31-04:00

The 15 years ago me would have her grab her two quart and somewhere around the point of throwing up and covered in mud she would want to quit not just the Army but, life itself then apologize profusely until she was allowed to rejoin the human race as an adult.

Of course now we are a kinder gentler Army and doing that to an undisciplined, sub-par solider would hurt her feelings. So in that case I would tell her to grab her pen and she would be signing counseling statements and company grade article 15s until her hand cramped and she couldn't see where to sign through the tears until she was apologizing profusely and allowed to rejoin the ranks as an adult.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 14 at 2015 5:05 AM

2015-06-14T05:05:49-04:00

I often stopped people from "ducking and covering" when colors was about to go down.

I also notice that her name tape isn't blacked out, so I wonder if anybody in her CoC has seen this picture and knife handed her yet.

Response by SFC Tyrone Almendarez made Jun 20 at 2015 1:30 AM

2015-06-20T01:30:03-04:00

I would make her salute the flag in different uniforms for 30 days. I would have her report to division headquarters and salute the flag every morning and COB.

Response by SSG Steven Borders made Jul 5 at 2015 1:43 PM

2015-07-05T13:43:02-04:00

I know this happens more than people think. I have seen it from E-1 all the way up to E-7. I am not saying it is right, but if you are going to do it don't post about it on social media. That is just plain stupidity.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-07-05T16:30:00-04:00

Military courtesy dictates not to duck colors. Its is disrespectful enough to do so, but to post it on Facebook is a total slap in the face to the uniform. Why would she enlist that is her attitude--perhaps because she couldn't find a civilian job? Definitely calls for an Article 15 or court martial.

Response by PO3 Bob Walsh made Jul 6 at 2015 4:51 AM

2015-07-06T04:51:31-04:00

Why would a person enlist in the Army, where she may be called on to risk her life in defense of the Country this flag represents. This indicates to me a lack of core values, " A price on everything and a value on nothing." I suspect she knows little of the History and sacrifice involved in the founding of our country, Represented by the flag.

Response by MSG Jan Glock made Jul 9 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-07-09T13:00:32-04:00

Unless she is missing her right arm, she should be given a bad conduct discharge and shipped off to Syria or some other country where she can hate our flag all she wants. Zero tolerance. I can't even believe this happened, much less would be tolerated! Too many gave too much, some made the ultimate sacrifice for her to be allowed this disrespect. I just can't believe this crap. Wall-to-wall counseling anyone?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-07-09T13:19:18-04:00

1SGt, a boot in the seat works.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 9 at 2015 2:08 PM

2015-07-09T14:08:31-04:00

Chapter her out. She is surplus. I will not work well with someone who refuses to salute the colors.

Response by SFC Michael Bush made Jul 9 at 2015 2:13 PM

2015-07-09T14:13:28-04:00

This is disgraceful. People like this should not even be in the military.

Response by SSG John Erny made Jul 9 at 2015 2:33 PM

2015-07-09T14:33:30-04:00

General Discharge for failure to adapt to military life! Bye, do not let the door hit you in the butt on the way out! You're fired!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 2:39 PM

2015-07-09T14:39:19-04:00

Perhaps she doesn't want to be a soldier.

Response by PO3 Richard Cole made Jul 9 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-07-09T14:43:55-04:00

If you don't respect the flag, move to another country.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 3:27 PM

2015-07-09T15:27:28-04:00

The number of likes are disturbing as well. What site is that Facebook? I want to post comments on her page.

Response by MSG Jan Glock made Jul 9 at 2015 4:38 PM

2015-07-09T16:38:10-04:00

I feel so foolish! I don’t know why I didn’t see it before. There are possibly bigger issues here. A wise mentor once told me that you never truly know what’s going on behind your Soldier’s eyes. He taught me to see the whole Soldier; not the new “touchy-feely” stuff, just that he wanted me to see my Soldiers as whole persons with a life and problems and concerns of their own. Maybe she got dumped, a loved one passed away, she got a collection letter, a fight with someone; it could have nothing at all to do with the Colors. After I got my initial outrage out of my system, I thought…why? Why does she feel “…cuz right now IDGAFFF!!!” Something has influenced her to feel this way. Since we don’t know the whole story, I can only speculate. Perhaps she is experiencing something we don’t know, and it may have nothing to do with honoring the Colors, but has to do with her not giving a f**k, as she put it. Something is causing her to not “GAFFF” Find that, and she may very well be savable. Remember, perceptions are reality to those doing the perceiving. Or, she could just be a disgruntled little princess! I just wanted to speak with a cooler head on this. Thanks for listening.

Response by SGT John W Lugo made Jul 9 at 2015 5:14 PM

2015-07-09T17:14:00-04:00

Well as to problem child, As mentioned prior from other NCO's, assist this poor example of a PFC by continually writing her up with the goal of ending her military contract for insubordination. She doesn't deserve any form of punishment, other than dis honorable discharge.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 5:52 PM

2015-07-09T17:52:08-04:00

http://archive.armytimes.com/article/20140225/NEWS/302250023/Soldier-flagrantly-avoids-flag-salute-sets-off-online-outrage

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Jul 9 at 2015 5:54 PM

2015-07-09T17:54:37-04:00

Not real bright is she? Go clean the tombstones at the local Veterans cemetery PFC Sheffey. I don't hate you because you're immature and ignorant, but you need to grow up and learn some pride, respect, and esprit de corps.

Response by SSgt Rilene Ann made Jul 9 at 2015 5:58 PM

2015-07-09T17:58:35-04:00

Should not be in

Response by Cpl Wesley Nail made Jul 9 at 2015 5:59 PM

2015-07-09T17:59:40-04:00

This is highly disrespectful. There is no excuse not to salute our flag. Apparently this soldier is in the military for the money and benefits. I would recommend office hours and possibly a court martial. If she can't respect the flag, then she doesn't respect this country. It tells me that she can't be trusted to have my back in a fire fight. If I can't trust you, then you need to go.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2015 2:40 AM

2015-07-12T02:40:43-04:00

Give her to me for a week. I'll need a few high speed coolers, loud speakers, an isolation room, heaters, every Marine Corp commercial ever made on a continuous video loop, and a Lee Greenwood cd.

Response by SSG Sean Gallagher made Jul 16 at 2015 12:47 PM

2015-07-16T12:47:36-04:00

First of all, the fact that she doesn't know the name of the Retreat bugle call speaks volumes. Secondly, I know many soldiers that tried to duck out of being in their vehicle on post, or on foot walking to the Airborne PX at or around 1700 for the very same reason. To me, she's just a shit bag private that needs to get her ass smoked for promoting her laziness on social media.

Response by SGT Michael Overholt made Jul 16 at 2015 1:26 PM

2015-07-16T13:26:10-04:00

Article 15 with 30 days extra duty and forfeit of 2 months pay to start. To me this means she is not even proud of the work she did that day. It also shows her lack of pride serving in the Army and the respect of those who have served before her, those who have died in their service to protect her, and those who currently serve now that are in harms way. I am appalled at what the Army has become today. Kids think they should have everything handed to them without any work at all. I am disgusted. This reminds me of the movie Idiocracy, all the stupid lazy people inherit the earth. IS MARS READY YET?

Response by CPL Richard Flagg made Jul 16 at 2015 1:35 PM

2015-07-16T13:35:36-04:00

Personally a BCD is in order for soldiers who think they are "Above the Rules and Regulations." Shit if they don't want to Salute the Flag they swore to protect and all that it represents they can go work at Burger King. Just saying...

Response by CSM Steve Slocum made Jul 16 at 2015 2:21 PM

2015-07-16T14:21:57-04:00

The ragbag should have received an Art 15 and a strong counseling. Actions such as these are not acceptable within a military unit. I can guarantee you that she is a sloppy,worthless soldier and citizen!!!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2015 3:25 PM

2015-07-16T15:25:31-04:00

addition to my first comment
I do believe that this persons platoon sgt should be counseled because he/she has not
informed the troop of military courtesy regarding the colors
maybe an article 15 or extra duty would wake him/her up
I have seen troops like this trying to get over on things. she is just testing the waters
to see what she can get away with
I wish that I was her top soldier, we would come to an understanding in a heart beat

Response by SPC Andrew Griffin made Jul 16 at 2015 4:04 PM

2015-07-16T16:04:22-04:00

I Personally believe they are the SCUM of the Earth! So many fought and died just so we can have the Privilege to SALUTE the Flag!

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Jul 16 at 2015 8:13 PM

2015-07-16T20:13:57-04:00

LIVE FIRE RANGE AS THE 100 METER TARGET!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2015 4:11 PM

2015-07-18T16:11:04-04:00

This person looks like she wants a ride out of the military please grant her wish. If you don't like the rules get the fuck out

Response by SFC Kelly Bristow made Jul 21 at 2015 9:01 PM

2015-07-21T21:01:46-04:00

This is a turning point for NCO's. This is where you can turn your "disrespectful young Private" into an outstanding Soldier. Taking the short route of Article 15 and ultimately a Chapter is an easy out for NCO's, but molding a young Private until they can understand the meaning of this tradition is the challenge that will last a lifetime. At first look we are all struck and dumbfounded by the lack of respect this PFC has for "Retreat", but after this wears off a true leader will take the opportunity to mentor this Soldier. A leader will ensure at 1650 the Soldier walks outside the Company building to face the flag and salute. All the while instructing her on why it is done and what the history is behind doing it. Being too quick to "boot a Soldier out for disrespecting the flag" will not earn you anything but paper cuts and extra time in front of Leadership explaining why you failed as a leader - unacceptable. Take the Soldier to a funeral and let her see the raw emotion of interring Soldier, she will understand quickly why we do this tradition.

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-07-26T16:08:25-04:00

No, I don't think about them, they should be asked to leave the service.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Jul 27 at 2015 9:06 PM

2015-07-27T21:06:28-04:00

Od news, but she is still a scumbag in my opinion and hopefully she is out of uniform by now.

Response by SPC Dale Peer made Jul 27 at 2015 9:08 PM

2015-07-27T21:08:51-04:00

Defineatly extra shi@ work!!!!!!

Response by PO2 Jennifra Jones made Jul 27 at 2015 9:23 PM

2015-07-27T21:23:29-04:00

I believe that is the same as not saluting a superior. as such the same punishment should be dealt. I also believe that that person has no idea what this nation was founded on or for. there for I believe they should be awarded with homework such as doing an essay about the history of this nation and especially the flag. if at that point they still don't salute or they refuse then punishment of harsher nature should be awarded up to and including discharge.. if they cant respect the flag then obviously they don't respect the country for which it stands for and are not true Americans. in my eyes that may mean spies, someone willing to hurt what is left of this nation. GOD help us all.

Response by PO2 Jennifra Jones made Jul 27 at 2015 10:12 PM

2015-07-27T22:12:56-04:00

does anyone know what happened with this soldier?

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 5:13 AM

2015-08-06T05:13:21-04:00

I can understand staying in you car as you pull up in the morning when you're on a Navy base and theres nine ships from other countries and you have to salute for all nine countries national anthems but to take a selfie in you're car and making a dumb a** comment is going overboard. No one gives a sh*t that youre in your car but hiding since you decided to waste everyone's time with this post, make yourself look stupid, and embarrass the armed forces, 45 days restriction and half months pays should do the trick.

Response by PO3 Glenn Adair made Aug 7 at 2015 9:13 AM

2015-08-07T09:13:54-04:00

Have her stand at attention and salute the flag under strict order until the next meal is served or go to the brig.

Response by PO3 Brendan O'Gara made Aug 18 at 2015 11:34 AM

2015-08-18T11:34:45-04:00

EMI for sure at least three times then disciplinary action failing that ejection from the service.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2015 11:04 AM

2015-08-22T11:04:45-04:00

I honestly feel like anyone that runs inside for colors, hides, or just plain flat out does not salute, stand at attention, or honor our flag in proper manner should just get out. How do you expect me to trust you to be my brother/ sister in arms, to have my back if you can't respect the flag we fight for on a daily basis.

I understand people join for benefits and get out. But while you are in, or as you continue your military career, learn some respect for that flag.. know your NATIONAL anthem.
How hard is it to be a little patriotic while you're under contract?

That's just my opinion.
But as you can see, every branch has those select few who can't even honor the flag they fight for.

Response by PO1 Cliff Heath made Sep 1 at 2015 1:41 PM

2015-09-01T13:41:11-04:00

TAKE HER TO A VA OR BASE HOSPITAL WHERE OUR HEROES GAVE OF THEMSELVES AND TELL HER SEE THEM AND THERE ARE MANY MORE PAST AND PRESENT THAT'S WHY YOU DAMN WELL BETTER SHOW THEM THE RESPECT THEY DESERVE AND GET YOUR ASS UP AND HONOR THEM AND THE FLAG OR GET YOUR ASS OUT OF THE SERVICE TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH YOU MAKE ME SICK, AND YOUR COMMENTS MAKES A FEMALE NCO WOULD TAKE A WEAPON AND BUTTSTROKE YOUR LAZY UNPATRIOTIC ASS

Response by 1SG Bill Wayne made Sep 4 at 2015 4:56 AM

2015-09-04T04:56:11-04:00

This cant be right. If it is. Some NCO is getting the word. PFC you just incriminated your self. It is a standing General order to stop and pay your respect. I don't think it should go that far. However, I believe having the platoon you are in pull guard on your car at 0500 and 1700 would be advisable to your leadership. Peer Pressure folks

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 6 at 2015 2:27 PM

2015-09-06T14:27:44-04:00

Old story, but here is the requirement from the http://humanevents.com/2006/04/07/emexclusive-emthe-truth-about-la-raza/

c. Retreat. At the last note of retreat, a gun will be fired (if available) on military installations, followed by the playing of the national anthem or sound of "To The Color" (using a drum and bugle corps, a bugler, or recorded music) concurrent with the lowering of the flag. The flag will be lowered to ensure completion at the last note of the music. The same respect will be observed by all military personnel whether the national anthem is played or "To the Color" is sounded.

What troubles me is the 303 likes.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 12:27 AM

2016-01-10T00:27:30-05:00

Well I would say it all comes down to training and the training I had in 1984 was a lot harder and more respected then what it is today

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 12:18 PM

2016-01-14T12:18:51-05:00

If you don't respect the Flag or the Country you serve, you should be Administratively discharched. You signed a contract, if you can't honor your contract you don't need to be in service.

Response by COL John Hudson made Jan 19 at 2016 8:44 AM

2016-01-19T08:44:20-05:00

My comment is directed to the Private First Class who posted the picture of her hiding in her car to intentionally escape saluting the American flag at a military protocol ceremony. While she may at that moment have thought she was being cute, in my mind 'intentional' is the same as 'refusal.' She made a decision to hold herself up as an attitudinal poster child on a public social media platform while "in uniform." The U.S. Army has no place for such a demonstrable, lackadaisical and contrary attitude. Posting something like that on a public forum while in uniform sends the wrong message...subjecting both the Poster and the U.S. military to ridicule. As her Commander, I would provide an equal opportunity to act as a poster child in that same uniform by either 1) accompanied by the CSM to stand at attention in my office for a strong verbal correction or 2) Administrative Punishment in the form of an Article 15 (depending on past record and attitude). By end of day she could find herself as a Private E-2, Counseling document in file with a short but strong verbal military history lesson on why we observe such ceremony. She would then be accompanied by the CSM to discuss the extra duty schedule for the next week or so. And this to any military leader...the standard you walk past is the standard you accept!

Response by Craig Hatch made Jan 19 at 2016 4:35 PM

2016-01-19T16:35:38-05:00

There are soldiers that actually do that? I never thought in a million years that was even conceivable. As a civilian working on base, and correct me if I am wrong. I think its called the retreat and then the national anthem follows after it. My fedora comes off, I place it in front of my heart; and stand facing toward where the flag flies. For I cannot tell where the music comes from, I am deaf in my left ear. Anyway, if I as a civilian pay the respect that is demanded on base, then sorry I would expect a soldier whom has a higher duty; to pay the same homage. I mean no disrespect to anyone.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Jan 19 at 2016 4:44 PM

2016-01-19T16:44:46-05:00

Boot the bitch out. It is highly unlikely that she will do anything but cause trouble and will be a pain in the ass for those serving with her. Most likely she is just looking for freebies anyway.

Response by SFC Edwin Watson made Jan 21 at 2016 2:35 PM

2016-01-21T14:35:15-05:00

This thread is over a year old, and I believe all of the issues and opinions surrounding it have been addressed. Hopefully, the "Soldier" in question has been chaptered out and we can all move on.

Response by LCpl Stephen Arnold made Mar 7 at 2017 11:32 AM

2017-03-07T11:32:43-05:00

Toss her out, give her back whatever she invested in GI Bill, revoke said GI Bill, and any and all benefits she may have accrued or earned. Complete seperation, as if she never existed. I wouldn't even waste an Article 15 on her, throw the bitch out.

Response by SSG Thomas McBriarty made Mar 9 at 2017 12:35 PM

2017-03-09T12:35:08-05:00

Do exactly what a civilian boss would do if they don't perform their job, get rid of them.\

Response by SSG Thomas McBriarty made Mar 9 at 2017 12:36 PM

2017-03-09T12:36:32-05:00

Get rid of her, same as a civilian boss would do if she did not perform her duties.

Response by CPL Mike Bozzi made Mar 11 at 2017 4:13 PM

2017-03-11T16:13:46-05:00

Throw her in the brig

Response by Edward Belliveau made Mar 11 at 2017 5:00 PM

2017-03-11T17:00:21-05:00

Kick her butt

Response by PO2 Scott Patterson made Mar 11 at 2017 8:57 PM

2017-03-11T20:57:17-05:00

That's not a soldier.Big Chicken Dinner.

Response by LCpl Johnny Carroll made Mar 21 at 2017 8:56 PM

2017-03-21T20:56:57-04:00

out on dishomable

Response by SFC Michael Bush made Mar 22 at 2017 12:17 PM

2017-03-22T12:17:49-04:00

I was at Eglin AFB at an ATM when 2 airmen refused to acknowledge Colors. I gave them a very strong ass chewing. My Mother, who's Father and Father in Law fought in WWII and husband in Vietnam with 3 sons serving in the Army had us stand for the national anthem in our home. Its lack of respect for this country that is a growing cancer and it comes from within.

She get one reprimand then I would get rid of her. Waste of oxygen. Its this type of individual that gets troops killed, whether negligence or intentional you can't depend on someone that is not accountable. Let her get passed around as a sex slave by ISIS, I wonder what her reaction would be to a couple of Bradley's showing up with the flag flying. It would be the happiest sight of her life.

Response by SPC David Owens Jr. made Mar 25 at 2017 11:34 AM

2017-03-25T11:34:33-04:00

Get the fuck out of my army you piece of shit

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Mar 25 at 2017 1:47 PM

2017-03-25T13:47:23-04:00

I don't have deep enough knowledge of the UCMJ but I would think an Article 15 would be called for at the very least. This could even qualify for a Summary Court Martial. She exasperated her actions by posting and commenting on social media.

Response by SFC George Smith made Mar 26 at 2017 1:12 AM

2017-03-26T01:12:05-04:00

She got what she deserved...

Response by SP6 Gary Carroll made Mar 26 at 2017 9:58 AM

2017-03-26T09:58:28-04:00

Kick the disloyal bitch out

Response by SP5 Robert Ruck made Mar 26 at 2017 4:54 PM

2017-03-26T16:54:03-04:00

I also have to worry about this soldiers work ethic.

Response by SPC John Decker made Mar 26 at 2017 5:42 PM

2017-03-26T17:42:27-04:00

Sounds like she should be charged under article 134---Article 134 encompasses offenses that are not specifically listed in the Manual for Courts-Martial: all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty. Article 134 is often considered to be a "catch-all" for various offenses that aren’t necessarily covered by the other articles in the UCMJ. Article 134 offenses include disloyal statements, abusing public animal, adultery, bigamy, bribery and graft, drinking liquor with prisoner, fleeing scene of accident, fraternization, gambling with subordinate, et al. It reflect acts that are not specifically listed, but nevertheless committed, by military personnel that negatively impact the service, unit, etc.--prejudice of good order and discipline...and bringing discredit to the armed forces

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Mar 26 at 2017 5:44 PM

2017-03-26T17:44:03-04:00

This is an old story but to answer the question I will say this. There will be many comments and suggestions about corrective training, etc. Bottom line: she's a soldier. The U.S. Army is NOT a democracy. You do as your told and there is no discussion or at least that is the way it was when I served. If she can't conduct herself as a soldier, make her a civilian where she sit on her non functioning ass all day.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2017 5:46 PM

2017-03-26T17:46:02-04:00

She needs to be dishonorably discharged. Saluting the flag is an opportunity to pay homage to sacrifices we and others have given our great nation. She is a disgusting soldier and a disgrace to the Army.

I am sure plenty of us have hesitated leaving the PX/BX when we were young, but to gloat about it on social media is unforgivable. Looks like this happened in early 2014.

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Mar 26 at 2017 6:31 PM

2017-03-26T18:31:49-04:00

UCMJ, ass gets smoked like never before, and booted out

Response by PFC Bradley Campbell made Mar 26 at 2017 8:35 PM

2017-03-26T20:35:28-04:00

she should be sent back to basic training with a letter why. Drill Sgt knows how to fix this. or burn it to the ground.

Response by PV2 Rick Osbun made Mar 26 at 2017 8:48 PM

2017-03-26T20:48:33-04:00

Arclcle 15 this individual and reduction In pay and reduced in rank

Response by COL William Oseles made Mar 26 at 2017 9:01 PM

2017-03-26T21:01:27-04:00

Candidate for seperation, early and without completing her contract.

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made Mar 26 at 2017 10:18 PM

2017-03-26T22:18:26-04:00

You do NOT HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH in the military. Get up and salute, or get out. God help I catch you doing this.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 27 at 2017 12:38 AM

2017-03-27T00:38:43-04:00

Hopefully she was chaptered...

Response by Ronald Murray made Mar 27 at 2017 3:55 AM

2017-03-27T03:55:32-04:00

Put there add out with disonerable and time in stock aid

Response by SSgt James Whitfield made Mar 27 at 2017 11:58 AM

2017-03-27T11:58:49-04:00

Shouldn't be in the military...just sayin. I remember the brown shoe days of, Chief Choat "you & me out back no strips". No paper work just discipline. We learned quickly.

Response by SGT Rick Pierson made Apr 2 at 2017 11:40 PM

2017-04-02T23:40:49-04:00

Kick there ass an set them straight

Response by SFC Giovanni Bennett made Apr 3 at 2017 7:54 AM

2017-04-03T07:54:05-04:00

The type of Soldiers that act like this are the ones that cried about making the Combat Action Badge and the ones trying to implement an Expert Combat Action Badge or whatever the thing is because Infantryman and Combat Medics have their Combat/Expert Infantry Badge and a Combat/Expert Field Medical Badge. I am shocked to see how candy ass and chicken shit the Army has become.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Apr 11 at 2017 10:42 PM

2017-04-11T22:42:05-04:00

She should be discharged. And not honorable.

Response by PO3 Lawrence Thompson made Apr 11 at 2017 11:22 PM

2017-04-11T23:22:37-04:00

someone explain to me what does saluting or not saluting a flag have to do with voluntarily serving in the military other than an antiquated tradition. Prior Navy Vet and Retired DoD Civil Servant

Response by PO3 Lawrence Thompson made Apr 11 at 2017 11:41 PM

2017-04-11T23:41:52-04:00

I think the issue here is will she do the job that she was trained to do when she enlisted. How many sulfated the flag while under fire in a combat zone, or underway or on an air mission. Let go of the tradition and focus on the real reasons why the few that volunteer to serve and defend this country because there are a lot of ppl that haven't. If it wasn't for ppl like us (volunteers) there wouldn't be this topic of discussion. The flag means a lot of things to a lot of ppl some good, some bad and some horrible. Look at the history of the flag and this country and who it stands for and not what you or I think it stands for.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 10:12 AM

2017-04-12T10:12:00-04:00

Not a true solider

Response by SPC Dale Peer made May 4 at 2017 1:06 PM

2017-05-04T13:06:06-04:00

Discharge... And discipline.

Response by Sgt Rit Pichette made May 12 at 2017 2:45 PM

2017-05-12T14:45:29-04:00

Kicked out of the service.

Response by SFC Gary (Bigsarge) Portier USARMY RET. made Jul 27 at 2017 1:09 PM

2017-07-27T13:09:49-04:00

I will keep my thoughts to myself, my Question is what does the Reg say can be done.

Response by SFC Gary (Bigsarge) Portier USARMY RET. made Jul 27 at 2017 1:13 PM

2017-07-27T13:13:06-04:00

This used to be Allowed, but with the Military being as Weak as it is especially in the past 8 years and the So called New Army is it even allowed to go that far?

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Aug 4 at 2017 3:03 PM

2017-08-04T15:03:25-04:00

DIRT BAG! SHOULD NEVER GET PASED PFC

Response by SPC David Willis made Nov 28 at 2017 4:46 PM

2017-11-28T16:46:20-05:00

Not a whole lot different than soldiers who run inside right before it starts to avoid it as well. Lots of it goes on unfortunately. What is shocking is how dumb shes gotta be to post it up on the interwebz for all to see.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2017 9:26 AM

2017-11-29T09:26:42-05:00

Completely disrespectful. You are in the military. You signed up for this and all of the regulations associated with it. If you cant respect the flag by getting out of the car and saluting, then at least SIT AT ATTENTION FOR COLORS. As far as EMI, I would say having the individual either conduct colors for about a week (both morning and evening colors) or have them be present for colors for a week.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Jun 25 at 2018 8:40 AM

2018-06-25T08:40:24-04:00

Assign this person to work in the local VA hospital...maybe this would be an "attitude adjustment" that is needed.

Response by SPC Elisabeth Vinal made Jun 25 at 2018 12:45 PM

2018-06-25T12:45:50-04:00

This is BASIC Respect in the US Military 101. If a soldier, a fairly new one at PFC rank, is not disciplined enough to render basic respect, she/he is probably a loss. Unit morale an issue as well. I would not want her in a foxhole with me, protecting my backside while I was protecting hers. I do not trust her.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2018 10:47 AM

2018-11-02T10:47:50-04:00

To me, it is a slap in the face to everyone who fought and died for the USA, everyone who came home badly wounded of mind and body, and all of the spouses and children who had to endure and continue to endure. One of the proudest moments of my military career was giving the flag of my 85 year old father to my mom, after his passing. My dad was once a 22 year old Navy dentist, but his remains were covered under the same glorious flag as all of our honored dead. How could any of us blemish such a wonderful and inclusive fraternity ?

Response by SMSgt Larry Brown made Nov 2 at 2018 11:15 AM

2018-11-02T11:15:52-04:00

Years ago I was leaving the Wing HQ after briefing the Commander on something. Music started and Security Forces started to lower the flag. Wing Commander was standing to my left. A Ssgt bolted from the far end of the building, jumped in his car and DROVE PAST THE FLAG AND THE WING COMMANDER

Response by PO2 Roger O'Day made Nov 2 at 2018 11:44 AM

2018-11-02T11:44:49-04:00

A couple weeks in the brig and dishonorable discharge.
As I remember you are not to purposely avoid colors.
Doing it and flaunting it should be grounds for dishonorable discharge.

Response by PO2 Roger O'Day made Nov 2 at 2018 12:04 PM

2018-11-02T12:04:16-04:00

After reading others comments, I’m wondering what the heck happened since I got out?
This is blatant people.
This is in the UCMJ.
You would recomend discharge for disobeying orders.
This is a standing order.
She didn’t forget.
She did miss it.
She posted it on the dtinking internet.
Smiling.
Is this the play Army?
General Patton would not go for this.
I don’t think General Eisenhouer would either.
This is her mindset.
She is a cancer in the ranks.
Bust her out.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Nov 2 at 2018 12:21 PM

2018-11-02T12:21:55-04:00

This Soldier needs formal counseling to include writing a lengthy paper on the cost of freedom and why we render honors. I think there is a UCMJ action that can be taken.

Response by PO2 Paul Dodd made Nov 2 at 2018 12:42 PM

2018-11-02T12:42:09-04:00

I willingly and happily gave several years defending my country. If I ever see a veteran knowingly and willingly ignoring our flag then I guess that I am going to jail for assault and battery charges as I will gleefully stomp their ass for doing so.

Response by LCpl Jason Keiser made Nov 2 at 2018 1:24 PM

2018-11-02T13:24:03-04:00

Immediate bad conduct discharge.

Response by PFC David McLeod made Nov 2 at 2018 1:40 PM

2018-11-02T13:40:37-04:00

Loss
Imo, there's nothing more irredeemable than lack of basic allegiance.
I'd start the process for involuntary seperation.

Response by SPC Dennis Escobar made Nov 2 at 2018 5:24 PM

2018-11-02T17:24:55-04:00

That a way of treason. Punish her accordingly

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2018 10:47 PM

2018-11-02T22:47:10-04:00

I might just be a private but every time the flag went off I looked back on the day and thought to myself, would the soldiers before melook at what I did today and be proud. Would they think I’d make a great leader. It would motivate me to do better everyday. Saying that I always did my best to salute the flag for the oath I took to my country and the people who have came before me. Some people are just in it for the benefits and money.

Response by Cecelia Brewer made Nov 2 at 2018 11:42 PM

2018-11-02T23:42:58-04:00

DISHONERABLE DISCHARGE

Response by CPT Frank Sawyers made Nov 3 at 2018 9:57 AM

2018-11-03T09:57:24-04:00

Kick her ass out!

Response by SFC James Leaverton made Nov 3 at 2018 12:35 PM

2018-11-03T12:35:54-04:00

If you hideto avoid saluting theflag you have just shit on ourCountry and those who fought and died, and served this great nation! And remember in your lineage there were those who fought and died so you shit on your family!

Response by SPC Ricky Bruneau made Nov 3 at 2018 3:09 PM

2018-11-03T15:09:26-04:00

This type of action, lack of action is concerning. If she is that lazy/disrespectful about saluting the very thing she swears to defend then I wonder how well she does her primary job. Does she pick and choose what she will do and won’t do in her core responsibilities? Who pays the price? I believe this shows her lack of giving 100%. This should not be acceptable and she should be counseled/disciplined. Partaking in the raising & lowering of the flag for 30 days would be fitting.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2018 6:20 PM

2018-11-03T18:20:16-04:00

I actually received the first phone call on this person. I was stationed at the post where this happened. (I will not say anything mean or call her a soldier) All I will say is if you can't salute take off the uniform and go home quietly. No fuss.

Response by Sgt Mike Jacobi made Nov 4 at 2018 1:16 PM

2018-11-04T13:16:53-05:00

I’d not want her with me if it drops into the pot. I want people committed to me as I am to them. By disrespecting the customs and traditions that point our collective way, she demonstrates a shocking level of disrespect for the entire mission of the military. I would suggest intensive training and if that fails to instill proper respect for herself and the military, separation as unsuitable for service.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Nov 4 at 2018 4:00 PM

2018-11-04T16:00:59-05:00

Saluting the Flag is a requirement, if it is accidental, I usually just correct the SM and move on, If it is a conscious statement, IE political, I would remind the SM that their politics have no place while in uniform - The uniform services are Apolitical for a reason, we serve the Constitution, not any political viewpoint, faction, or ideology. The Servicemember who posted this to facebook , while in uniform, with the explicit intent to signal boost her disrespect for the flag, would merit some form of counseling. It could also fall under UCMJ article 134. The SM's actions could be seen as detrimental to good order and discipline, conduct unbecoming of a servicemember, and nearly any other infraction that is perceived by her chain of command. Remember, it is how the action is perceived by others, not the intent of the one doing the action.

When you volunteer to be a part of United States Armed Forces, you volunteered to become something more then just your selfish wishes and wants, you volunteered to put your country above all else. I personally have no respect, nor empathy for this SM.

Response by CPO Gerry Sansone made Nov 4 at 2018 9:24 PM

2018-11-04T21:24:20-05:00

Blanket party?

Response by 1SG Tony Reaux made Nov 4 at 2018 11:32 PM

2018-11-04T23:32:56-05:00

Same as 1SG Boynton, I would go straight to Article 15, extra duty & 60 days of flag detail. Man the soldiers have changed so much. 1SG (P) Reaux

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2018 7:35 AM

2018-11-05T07:35:37-05:00

A gal in the Navy got courtmarshled for the same thing, however hers was on video. It’s hard to prove that she did salute, but was just saying she didn’t in the photo.
I would reccomend haveing a close out formation outside at that time every day. Explain that not saluting is subject to UCMJ, and that blatantly posting it on social media will not be tolerated.

That’s my opinion, hope it helped.

Response by PO1 William Van Syckle made Nov 5 at 2018 11:48 AM

2018-11-05T11:48:18-05:00

I understand she is out of the service. A good thing.....

Response by PO2 Brett Baune made Nov 5 at 2018 2:19 PM

2018-11-05T14:19:54-05:00

Addressing this issue is walking through a minefield. 5 years ago, assign some extra work off the books to teach a lesson and avoid NJP. 10+ years ago, some "fandom counseling" would be in order. But today, no. With using kneeling as a protest, you are liable to start a political shitstorm, and that issue will be much larger than the issue of 1 member skating. Even if they don't do it as a political stunt and are dodging colors simply because it's an "annoyance", all it takes is to have them say it was a protest, and boom, you got yourself a shit sandwich.

I freely admit I don't have a good answer in this, but at least want to urge caution with today's political climate, and hopefully someone smarter than me can use this info to deduct a good option

Response by Sgt Tom Curtis made Nov 5 at 2018 3:08 PM

2018-11-05T15:08:49-05:00

Your lack of respect is sickening, just like the national felons league.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2018 5:14 PM

2018-11-05T17:14:36-05:00

Simple: he/she needs to GTFO

Response by SGT Michael Reid made Nov 5 at 2018 6:09 PM

2018-11-05T18:09:03-05:00

This is a counseling matter. It should be officially documented that this was addressed by her chain of command. When or if she starts talking reenlistment send her packing.

Response by Maj John Bell made Nov 5 at 2018 7:17 PM

2018-11-05T19:17:43-05:00

I do not believe busy work teaches anything but resentment for the chain of command. I have no problem with EMI, but is should be related to the errors committed by the troop being corrected, or should be something that someone is going to do anyway. In this case, the soldier has shown a disregard of military customs and courtesies. In my command she might find herself on the morning and evening colors detail 7 days a week, for a few weeks. Or she might find out that she already volunteered herself for any ceremonial details around the base, or a funeral detail or two.

Response by PO2 Charles Fanning made Nov 5 at 2018 7:30 PM

2018-11-05T19:30:09-05:00

There is no place for this in our military. I hate to say it but the problem is much bigger than this post shows. The youth of today are not taught that an oath is binding. That your word is the only thing that can not be taken from you and if you show your word cannot be counted on then you can not be counted on. As far as this person goes, I would give them a choice, permanent color duty, both morning and evenings and weekends, Or process for NJP. it has been a long long time since I was in but I am sure there is a rule she is violating.

Response by Sgt Bob Darden made Nov 5 at 2018 7:36 PM

2018-11-05T19:36:10-05:00

A good old fashioned blanket party with extra soap

Response by TSgt David Holman made Nov 5 at 2018 7:57 PM

2018-11-05T19:57:49-05:00

Honestly, were she my troop, I would explain to her that this is unacceptable behavior for anyone in uniform, and would wish her luck as she rapidly transitioned back to the civilian sector with an administrative discharge.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2018 7:58 PM

2018-11-05T19:58:37-05:00

In the 82nd, you were sent to CCF.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Nov 5 at 2018 10:43 PM

2018-11-05T22:43:22-05:00

This thread is 4 years old?

Response by SFC Robert Townsend made Nov 6 at 2018 10:10 AM

2018-11-06T10:10:13-05:00

Not the first one to do it... catch em, and have them on the field every morning to salute the flag as it goes up and in different uniforms, and do the same as it comes down... one month long... make it well known that this behavior is not acceptable and this corrective action awaits anyone doing such a disrespectful action.....

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2018 2:40 PM

2018-11-07T14:40:12-05:00

30 days on the Flag Detail would be a good start.

Response by C/1LT Benjamin Siciu made May 16 at 2019 5:04 PM

2019-05-16T17:04:22-04:00

I'm in JROTC so I don't know if I have a say, but it's completely disrespectful to avoid saluting to the american flag, you swear to protect this country while on the other hand, turn on it and avoid a duty to uphold.

Response by SSG Gregory Smith made May 13 at 2020 10:52 PM

2020-05-13T22:52:33-04:00

Simple solution.... Discharge her under failure to adapt. Simple she is simply gone. She doesn't want the Chapter?? Court Martial.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2020 11:12 PM

2020-05-14T23:12:23-04:00

To blatantly disrespect the flag you took an oath to defend should be grounds for other than honorable discharge. Forfeit ALL future benefits associated with having served in the military

Response by PO1 Peter Spooner made May 18 at 2020 7:57 AM

2020-05-18T07:57:27-04:00

Should have sent her to S.E.R.E. Training, she would never run from Colors again...!!

Response by LCpl Rob Campbell made May 19 at 2020 8:32 PM

2020-05-19T20:32:59-04:00

How bout a good ole blanket party!