What do you think of attending college while on Active Duty

2014-01-31T23:30:51-05:00

I recently had a discussion with another NCO about attending college while on Active Duty. This other NCO stated that his unit(s) allowed him almost no time to attend college, his personal preference is traditional classroom, not online. He continued to state that the Army and senior enlisted/officers preach about getting a degree but do not allow time and are too demanding, running JR NCOs and lower enlisted until they are out of gas.

I on the other hand agree and disagree with his statements, the Army and senior enlisted/officers don't allow enough time to attend what would be considered full or part time classroom style classes. However, I know of a few people who were allowed by our commander to be released at 1600 to attend class at 1630, and did online classes as well. I believe it all on how you manage your time. Just like the civilian world would be, any average American that attends college these days has to have a job or they simply won't make it. I would also say that it doesn't get any better than TA while you're in the Military, who else get paid and goes to college completely free that would be considered an "average" American?

What are your views on obtaining a degree while serving?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2014 12:10 AM

2014-02-01T00:10:06-05:00

There is a large push for the enlisted side of the house to obtain a college degree. Over the years, dependent on the unit, I have seen different philosiphies on college. Some commands are extremely supportive and do give that time off and other's not so much. I have had buddies that had 6 months of college that never showed up and others that had to show up when they were not in class. At SWCS, all students going thru one of the SOF MOS's will leave with an Associates if they do not already have a degree. They have night classes taught here at the school house while they are in 6 months of language training.

I truely do not think a college degree makes you any better than someone without it. Yes, I do have an Associates, but truth be told I remember almost nothing from those classses. I think the only thing that you truely learn in college is how to reguritate information that you have been given.

I feel that more should be put on NCOES. Yes, I know everyone hates to go to NCOES but these teaching NCOs how to do their specific job and be leaders. I know alot has changed since I joined the Army back in '99, but how much are you teaching a SPC or SGT in 2wks of WLC? Heck my BNCOC was longer than my SLC. And as far as SSD is concerned, it's a joke, you can google any question and get the answer.

But don't get me wrong, if any of my soldiers want to take online classes or traditional classes they will have my support. TA is a perk that we have and I encourage my soldiers to take advantage of.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2014 4:32 PM

2014-03-10T16:32:12-04:00

I absolutely support all military members in their endeavors to earn their degree. I have heard all the excuses from I don't have enough time to my command does not support. I challenge all of my subordinates in every unit I have been in to earn their degree. I went so far as to go to school with them to demonstrate there is time to go to school outside duty hours. This comes down to time management. Believe me I have been in a lot of demanding assignments and I have figured out where to make time and fit education in. Figure it out, the military provides you TA to go and get a degree.

Do not get out of the military without a degree and limit your marketability. We as leaders owe it to our country to have the most professional force technically and tactically.

To comment on SFC Bonzo's point, I believe that we as a service need to take a hard look at NCOES to really challenge our NCOs and make the investment in their professionalization and leadership abilities.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2014 8:40 PM

2014-05-05T20:40:25-04:00

I disagree with the no time thing. I have a wife and two children, work 10 hour shifts, am active in my community and church, and still (in the recent past) found time to be a full-time college student, albeit online. If there was a school nearby that had classes that were pertinent to my degree, I'd find the time to fit it in. I'm not patting my own back, just using my experiences as an example. What I see in that problem is not that the military is not giving us enough time, rather this individual has not placed enough value and urgency on attaining a degree. One saying I heard that I can't remember who said it was "Investing in yourself is the only investment that always pays dividends."

Response by MSG Martin C. made May 5 at 2014 10:34 PM

2014-05-05T22:34:07-04:00

It's all excuses most individuals Do not want it bad enough. If they want it they will find the time no excuses. I don't want to boast myself but I finished my Associates degree while serving as a Drill Sergeant. I did it on my nights, while on CQ on Sundays I even volunteered for CQ on Sundays just to be at work all day without my kids distracting me. ( please don't tell my wife) My point here is about sacrificing what are you willing to sacrifice? Most individuals want the perks but don't want to do the work. The only individuals that could use that excuse is someone in a combat outpost constantly on patrols etc and even that only last for a year.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made May 12 at 2014 6:18 PM

2014-05-12T18:18:15-04:00

I tried hard. I finally got my NCOIC to allow me and as soon as I enrolled and started. Back to back to back training. I was dropped from the class due to attendance. I never tried again except through correspondence.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made May 12 at 2014 6:22 PM

2014-05-12T18:22:53-04:00

You have to make time to get your education done. While there are some programs out there that need to be done in a classroom environment (Electrical Engineering for one) if you want a degree you can get one.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2014 6:47 PM

2014-05-12T18:47:22-04:00

Bottom line is we make time for the things we want to do. Traditional evening classes may have to be the way to go for those that do not want to take classes online. If a Soldier is fortunate enough to get the school option when they reenlist then they should take full advantage of that time to take classes during the duty day. If the command can afford to let a Soldier go early or work different hours so they can take a class then I am all for that as well. It is frustrating to hear when Soldiers say their leader would not let them out of work to take a class...college is not an entitlement for Soldiers!

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made May 12 at 2014 8:06 PM

2014-05-12T20:06:45-04:00

SGT Starnater,

So far I have not run into a unit that did not allow SMs to attend courses as long as they did not interfere with the mission. The key part of that statement is that of non-interference with the mission. I have seen some folks take classes during lunch and after hours. Anyone who thinks they should be allowed to head off to class when they should be at work is in the wrong profession. That being said, these opportunities are few and far between. My answer was to avoid the situation completely. I decided to go all on-line. That way my education never got in the way of my ability to do my job. Also the job rarely got in the way of school.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2014 8:56 PM

2014-05-12T20:56:51-04:00

If that NCO was interested in attending college like a college kid, well then that's not possible. Five classes a semester three or four days a week. Now I have seen NCOs leave mid-day from 1100-1300 daily for classes, but I agree with you. Time management is key, I completed by BS on active duty as an NCO. I went to class (in a classroom) one to two nights a week from 1800-2200 for 8 weeks per class and was able to complete my BS in under 5 years part-time. I also completed my MBA (as an officer) between two deployments, where I mixed on-line and on campus classes. I was able to complete my Masters in 24 months. Now I had to take a few "pause-EX" but I was able to complete both degrees through the support of my family and long hours after work with a great deal of sacrifice. But in the end I achieved my goals. Nothing is given to you, you have to chase it. Another option (if your young enough) is the AD Green-to-Gold. There really is no excuse when it comes to education anymore.

Response by SFC James Rigdon made May 13 at 2014 8:01 AM

2014-05-13T08:01:06-04:00

I am working hard on my BA ITM right now, I have had full support through out my 3 years from different chain of commands. I am married and I have 3 children under 12. It can be done, not easy but can be done.

Response by MSG Wally Carmichael made May 13 at 2014 3:14 PM

2014-05-13T15:14:42-04:00

All great and valid points. I want to take a different perspective.

It's also important to keep in mind, traditional education is NOT the end all and guarantee for a well paying and satisfying job when you separate/retire.

Education is very important, however, some of my peers, including myself have mentors who show us the ropes in vocations such as real estate investing, multi level marketing and many other endeavors. If you can't find a mentor in your desired field, find some books. Get educated outside the classroom from people doing what you love.

I got my entire BS on-line part time over the years. But I've been building a business, part time, over the last two years while still on active duty. When I retire in the next year I can continue building and stay home with my boys or I can take a GS position on my terms, and continue building my empire to will off to my boys.

I'm set, because I got the education I wanted as an entrepreneur in an industry I love. I already have my dream home in paradise, 5 min walk from the beach. I have one boy in college and two more who may follow in my entrepreneurial foot steps. It's been a tough road but very rewarding.

Remember, Henry Ford had just 3 months of formal education. . Thomas Edison had a 6th grade education. Yet, they were both very educated. It's all about what you want to do.

Decide Commit Succeed.

Response by SGT Kenny Norton made Jun 12 at 2014 8:04 PM

2014-06-12T20:04:51-04:00

Considering I left the Army in '98, I cannot speak to the current difficulties NCOs face, but like you, I suspect this boils down to priorities and time management. Looking back on the down time I had (especially in Korea) while serving, I wish that I had done more. These days, most people run around with Internet capable mini-computers (smartphones) in their pockets, so I find it difficult to believe that they can't find time to advance their education. You can do it just about anywhere at any time. Of course that means less time drinking, surfing FB, and playing whatever games they may play.

It's no different on the outside, in my current field. Many in the IT field say that they do not have time to study or prepare for certification exams, yet I've done it many times over with a wife, 4 kids, and crazy work hours. If you really want something, you have to make sacrifices. It may be in the form of less sleep, less family time, less money, and / or less time partying with your buddies, but it can be done, if you want it.

Many people like the "idea" of becoming an astronaut, doctor, special operations soldier, or President of the United States, but very few are willing to put in the work or make the necessary sacrifices to turn that idea into reality. It's all about priorities and how bad you want it. Everything else is an excuse.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2014 12:26 AM

2014-08-03T00:26:46-04:00

You can do it. Honestly, you have to find classes and schools that work more with you. I have been in 13 years. Since being a PFC, I have earned an Associates, Bachelors, Masters and half-way done with my DBA. It's just a matter of dedication. I finished my associates in Iraq, my last Bachelors class at JRTC, and last Masters Class while at NTC serving as a CDR, XO, and UMO. Push hard and you will get it done. Burn that TA!!!

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Aug 3 at 2014 1:04 PM

2014-08-03T13:04:40-04:00

I think, at least in part, why earning a college degree while in the enlisted ranks is held in high esteem is because it's HARD to do. Not from an academic standpoint, but from the time-management and determination standpoint. I know soldiers are busy and don't have a lot of free time. But if I see one charge ahead and make it happen, it makes that individual really stand out in my opinion.

Response by SSG Justin Miracle made Aug 3 at 2014 10:53 PM

2014-08-03T22:53:51-04:00

I see what he is saying, but it's about how much you want it. I would also say that trying to take a night class during a training cycle prior to deployment is probably not setting yourself up for success, but i have seen soldiers get to leave on time to get to class. That is all about your leadership being informed and being on board. I am taking online classes at a normal college that meet 1 night a week on a video chat for an hour, which i like a lot better than others. Now due to just getting back from deployment, we are not busy and I have received 12 credit hours this summer semester, and had no issues with work.

Sometimes things are out of our control (field, deployment, schools), but at times we have to just get the stuff done for our personal benefit instead of making up reasons for why we can't.

I know the army has tried to get better at college for enlisted, but I think they need to offer similar educational opportunities and programs that they have for officers.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Dec 5 at 2014 4:53 PM

2014-12-05T16:53:30-05:00

It's challenging no doubt. However, it can be done if you apply the 3Ds Discipline, Determination, and Desire.
It's your waiting for the phantom " right " time, it doesn't exist. There's always a field exercise, school, deployment, family issues, etc. that happen in life

Response by SPC John Gregorio made Dec 5 at 2014 5:03 PM

2014-12-05T17:03:23-05:00

Great Question! I have seen guys do it. But, I have also seen guys mess it up and "lose it" over dealing with the scheduling. In regards to a CO letting someone out early for classes, I say good luck. Need of the Army is an important thing in the Army's eyes. I I have admired guys that cab do it. But, felt for the ones who were up all night washing gear for a TA-50 inspection that next morning, and do not finish dchool. I personally, being a veteran and still on IRR, would rather use my GI Bill when I can benefit 100% from it.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jan 14 at 2015 12:14 PM

2015-01-14T12:14:15-05:00

I definitely prefer traditional classroom over online, I do not have the discipline necessary to chime in to online education, but lets say if I treated my college pursuit much as I do logging into RP, then I might succeed.

Response by MSG Robert Mills made Jan 15 at 2015 12:33 AM

2015-01-15T00:33:15-05:00

Its called one class at a time until you finish, I finished mine after begining in 2001 and finally finishing in 2013 lol so it can be done regardless and with the benefits afforded soldiers which many do not take advantage of there is little excuse to not at least attempt to do some college while on active duty.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 12:06 AM

2015-02-01T00:06:33-05:00

In my time in the service I've complete two degrees while serving. The first was while I was a PFC and into my time as a SGT, but that was modified by the fact that I was working in a BDE HQ. I took two classes at a time (three once, but that was a terrible idea) and ground it out. The worst case was when I signed up for College Algebra and World History a week before I went to WLC. My NCOs told me that I would have plenty of time to study, and they couldn't have been more wrong. Despite that, I finished both those courses in three weeks after I came back from WLC. It can be done, but you have to prioritize education and figure out what you can actually accomplish. Despite that, I completed my associates degree in a year and a half while on active duty.

My second degree on active duty was as a lieutenant, where I completed an MA in Organizational Leadership over the course of a year and half. That degree included a lot of classroom instruction, but the courses usually met about 1-2 days a week and were a bit later in the evening. It gets more difficult if you have kids, but the rule is that you get out what you put in. You can get a lot of mileage by actually talking to your leadership and explaining what you're doing. If you're trying to improve yourself, more often than not they should support you. As leaders, we like to be able to say that we've supported our Soldiers in obtaining higher education and that x number of soldiers earned degrees while completing their duties.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2015 11:37 PM

2015-05-03T23:37:02-04:00

I think getting a degree in the military is easier than in the civilian world. Most supervisors in the military are willing to work with you more than on the civilian side. I obtained my bachelors degree as a civilian and masters degree in the military. It was definitely easier when I was in the Army.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 11:04 PM

2015-06-29T23:04:16-04:00

You are correct...it's about management (both in time & expectations).

I attended the University of Maryland - Europe on campus while on Active Duty in Germany. That meant a lot of weekends and weeknights were spent in class. That meant that my wife went on a MWR trip to Spain with the unit & family members while I attended class. If you want to get ahead, whether it's to prepare for life after Service or just ahead of your peers for promotion, it takes sacrifice (that's why it was important enough to be included in the Army Values). In return, those points helped me fast track to E-5 (and have continued to pay dividends with each successive promotion in the National Guard).

Too many Soldiers these days want/expect to attend college on work time. A civilian employer wouldn't do that, why should the military. Some of my Soldiers attended college classes while on deployment. It's all about facing reality, making a plan and having the intestinal fortitude to stick with it.

And, Active Duty tuition Assistance is hard to beat!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2017 6:15 PM

2017-11-01T18:15:23-04:00

I am a year out from completing my Bachelors, and I can tell you that it can be difficult taking a full load. Personally, I am taking a full load so I can finish my degree faster. I joined the military in the middle of college, so it set me behind a bit. It is not impossible, but I definitely feel burned out almost everyday. Going home from a hard day of work to a long night is school assignments. You have to be motivated enough to push through those semesters on active duty, and also make sure you keep your G.P.A. I think it is highly necessary, and that people should at least attend part-time. It can be stressful, but it's worth it.

Response by SPC Robert Coventry made Dec 1 at 2017 12:15 AM

2017-12-01T00:15:56-05:00

I took a couple of classes, had a final scheduled while I was in the field, chain of command and the school didn't care i had to make it up with 4 or 5 days of getting out of the field. It was tough

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2018 9:33 PM

2018-08-18T21:33:17-04:00

It’s all about an individuals priorities. In my experience, I came into the Army with about 30 credit hours in 2004, and in Decemember of last year I walked across the stage at the University of Oklahoma with a Masters Degree. Time management and perseverance is critical. I began by taking one 3 credit hour course at the education center after work hours and continued by taking multiple courses at a time online, sacrificing a lot of free time before and after work and on the weekends. Through the grind of multiple deployments and PCS moves with a full family, it took me 6 years to receive my Associates degree, but by my 13th year in the Army I had my Masters degree. Again, it’s all about priorities and perseverance, but I truly believe that all Soldiers can achieve a degree while serving if they truly want to.