What do you think of young men and women in uniform being denied the privilege of participating in graduation ceremonies in uniform?

2017-06-19T19:58:06-04:00

Many schools are not allowing service members to graduate in uniforms they have earned the right to wear. What does this say about the state of patriotism in our country today?

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jun 19 at 2017 8:05 PM

2017-06-19T20:05:18-04:00

Honestly, I think it's a shame that someone wouldn't be allowed to wear it despite going above and beyond to graduate early and enlist. But then I saw a facebook meme that only made even more sense than facebook usually does. Simply put, it stated "Well maybe they should have worn the proper uniform of the day instead of trying to be on their own program".

Regarding the patriotism of today, that's been dwindling for awhile now. More than a decade of armed conflict will do that to the public.

Response by TSgt Dawn Premock made Jun 19 at 2017 8:14 PM

2017-06-19T20:14:08-04:00

It's a shame.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2017 8:35 PM

2017-06-19T20:35:10-04:00

If you can decorate your cap with non-school colors, slogans, and personal designs, then you should be allowed to proudly wear the uniform and we recognized for your service.

Response by SPC Douglas Bolton made Jun 19 at 2017 9:14 PM

2017-06-19T21:14:33-04:00

PFC Roger Goff this is wrong! What is the reason?

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Jun 19 at 2017 9:58 PM

2017-06-19T21:58:24-04:00

I have not heard any stories in our are of this.

Response by Sgt Bob Leonard made Jun 20 at 2017 1:47 AM

2017-06-20T01:47:53-04:00

After Tech School, on my way to my first permanent assignment, I was given a one week delay in transit. I used it to go home for a week. One day, I took time to go to my high school to say hello to a couple of my favorite teachers. I went in uniform, of course.

But now, almost 50 years later, I'll be totally candid and say what I know I was thinking back then: I didn't really go to say hello to a couple of teachers. I went to strut around campus, saying, "Look at me in my snazzy uniform. Aren't I special." Part pride, part unabashed ego.

My solo peacock display that Spring morning affected only myself and the few people I encountered during my visit. For a brief period of time, I was a mild distraction on campus, nothing more.

High school graduation is an event in a young person's life. It's a milestone marking a significant transition in their life. It's an announcement of accomplishment and entry into "responsible, adult life". There is no escaping those factors; it's their day! WHY would anyone want to detract from that? Why, aside from pride and ego?

That's really the question to consider. Why, in the midst of a high school graduation, why, when everyone else is wearing the traditional cap and gown, why, apart from pride, ego, and a "look at me, aren't I special?" attitude, why? would anyone choose/desire/demand to walk for their high school diploma in attire that unavoidably draws attention to them, and diminishes the significance of the day for everyone else?

Those are my thoughts.

Response by Sgt Brooks Hegge made Jun 20 at 2017 2:24 AM

2017-06-20T02:24:29-04:00

As a Marine, I feel like the only time that you need to be in uniform is on duty or at a special event. Graduation is not one of them. You never see a Marine in uniform outside of the base unless they are at a gas station filling car up with fuel. I don't know how many times I heard my Staff NCO's said if you want people to know you are a Marine when you are not on base. Just act like one! Nothing pisses me off more than seeing some sloppy ass Weekend warrior strolling through Walmart on a weekend in their cammys
If the kid wants to wear his uniform home on the plane to meet his parents fine, just take it off and put on your damn Cap and Gown like everyone else.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Jun 20 at 2017 3:40 AM

2017-06-20T03:40:14-04:00

Have your uniform on under the cap and gown. Then when the gig is over, take them off and show off.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2017 7:28 AM

2017-06-20T07:28:24-04:00

"What does this say about the state of patriotism in our country today?"

It doesn't say a damn thing about patriotism. It says that the school has a standard of dress for graduation ... and is enforcing it. IMV, a high school graduation is the last time the class will do something together and all should wear the "uniform of the day." To wear something that sets one apart from one's classmates is divisive, not unifying, and is disrespectful of them and the occasion. Proud of your uniform? Great - wear it under the robe and stand tall in it ... after the graduation ceremony.

Response by PFC Roger Goff made Jun 20 at 2017 8:25 AM

2017-06-20T08:25:30-04:00

Thank you all for your replies. There seems to be a number of us who weigh in on either side of the issue.

While the "uniform of the day" seems to be the correct military minded answer. This is not a military situation. California and possibly some other states have legislated responses to the situation.

Wether you agree or disagree, the school is the authority having jurisdiction in these situations. And service members should find it easy enough to submit to this authority. Having said that I would hope that more schools would allow service members the choice to wear their class A uniform at graduation.

As for patrIotism, my opinion is that the liberal bent of the education system as a whole is primarily responsible for the military uniform not being allowed at graduation ceremonies. And I feel that wearing the uniform at graduation is in part an expression of patriotism.

We hear of kids being sent home from school for wearing clothes with the American flag on them. Or not being allowed to pose for school pictures for the same reason. And then there are the colleges that will not fly the flag of our nation. These decisions make me sick. If the American flag is offensive to you please excuse your self, and get the hell out of the USA now.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jun 20 at 2017 9:06 AM

2017-06-20T09:06:25-04:00

My issue is there needs to be a consistent policy in place. If I were the principal or school super intendant, I'd allow it. But that's me. That said, if the school does not now nor ever allowed it and the policy is clear about graduation uniformity, suck it up. How you going to make it through the military trying to disregard regulations for your individual benefit, if you can't dress as expected for high school graduation?

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 20 at 2017 9:32 AM

2017-06-20T09:32:41-04:00

How about showing up for Basic Training Graduation in jock-strap, helmet liner and entrenching tool? I mean .. it's your graduation right? You should be able to wear whatever you want!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2017 9:37 AM

2017-06-20T09:37:42-04:00

Seems that I am the contrarian here, but is the uniform in fact appropriate for the event? I would argue no. Everyone else is in gowns and motorboards with tassels. Why do you think it is your right to be different? Might as well learn conformity now, big guy. You'll be living it for the next several years.
Secondly, if you're at high school graduation, in all but the most exotic circumstances you have not completed more than BCT on the Split Option Program. Talk to me when you get an MOS.
Third, if you are that determined to wear an ASU, wear it under the cap and gown, if you must. I get that you are proud of your choice to join the Army, Navy, etc. Not to worry... you'll have eight years to get all the pictures that you want.

In my humble opinion, it is the times that you wear the uniform in order to get special attention for doing so that you are most likely in the wrong.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2017 9:38 AM

2017-06-20T09:38:42-04:00

I think they should stop trying to be special snowflakes and wear the uniform underneath the cap and gown.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2017 9:42 AM

2017-06-20T09:42:06-04:00

While schools do have the right to regulate clothing for students, in a certain capacity, I see no harm in it. The reasons behind other regulations have purpose, but I fail to see a compelling interest in not allowing him to wear his uniform.
I do agree with others here though. The school has the ultimate authority over their students dress code and the decision should be deferred to them. It doesn't mean anyone hates the United States, probably more based around uniformity.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2017 9:50 AM

2017-06-20T09:50:39-04:00

If the policy set in place is to wear the Cap and Gown during the ceremony, then that is what you wear. If you want to wear your uniform, then wear it under the Cap and Gown. Take them off after you walk the stage. Personally, I see no problem wearing it to graduation, but if the policy/standard is to wear the Cap and Gown, then that is what you wear.

Response by PO2 Robert Aitchison made Jun 20 at 2017 10:47 AM

2017-06-20T10:47:03-04:00

I don't think it's an issue of patriotism or lack therof as much as it's an issue of expecting all students to adhere to the same set of rules.

As an aside, it seems like it would be difficult for someone to both be in the military and not yet a high school graduate. Are these reservists who joined and went to boot camp between Junior and Senior year?

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 20 at 2017 10:49 AM

2017-06-20T10:49:29-04:00

Based on my contacts with school teachers, professors, and school administrators in our local area, the schools systems are filled with liberals. In general liberals don't appear to like the military very much and some are part of the "blame America first" crowd. With this in mind, I understand why they want to enforce school rules saying everybody must look the same at graduation wearing cap and gown or whatever other prescribed "uniform." Probably school administrators are concerned if they allow military members to wear their uniform, then they open the door to a lot of other "violations" of their graduation uniform policy.

Honestly, I have to ask, what is the restriction on a service member not wearing a uniform? Can't they wear civilian clothes while on leave or pass? Of course they can. It's good advertising for them to wear their uniform to HS graduation. It demonstrates the individual's patriotism and willingness to serve our Country--good things! I fully support them in doing so under the freedom of expression guaranteed under the First Amendment. They have a right to wear the uniform as much as people have a right to burn the Flag or put on a play showing a President-type character being assassinated.

Yes, I disagree with school administrations that deny students the right to wear their Service uniforms during graduation. I also understand the difficult position they are in. I recommend the Service Member wear the uniform under the required cap and gown. Before the ceremony and after the ceremony, they can be seen in uniform by their friends and family demonstrating their patriotism. During the ceremony, they will look almost like everybody else (most HS seniors don't wear "high and tight" haircuts) demonstrating their respect for the School and its rules.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2017 11:37 AM

2017-06-20T11:37:25-04:00

If there's a policy in place then they should abide by the school's policy. If, as in the case of the most recent student, the school approves it months in advance and then denies the day before - trumping state law- then that's bs.

I don't think it has anything to do with a lack of patriotism whatsoever. Just because someone chose to volunteer for the military doesn't make them more patriotic or better than those in their graduating class who didn't. Not everyone can or should be in the military. Just like not everyone can or should be in any other field.

Also I believe you can't wear anything over your dress uniform so that means they can't wear the gown. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2017 12:59 PM

2017-06-20T12:59:38-04:00

Also as stated in the headline - privilege. Not a right. No one has "the right" to wear a military uniform at a public event. It's a privilege and some states have made laws to enforce that privilege.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jun 20 at 2017 3:01 PM

2017-06-20T15:01:52-04:00

I think they should wear their uniform under the gown for the ceremony. Uniformity and all. They should be able to wear their uniform for the rest of the senior functions in my opinion.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jun 21 at 2017 12:52 AM

2017-06-21T00:52:22-04:00

Here is a graduation from a school I attended that uniforms certainly were worn. The seniors are to the left of the center isle. Underclassmen are on the other side of the isle and background. This school was Bordentown Military institute, in Bordentown, NJ where I had been a Cadet. The program here was Army and believe Me Patriotism was alive and well here. I have attended some reunions with My fellow Cadets.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2017 11:49 AM

2017-06-22T11:49:38-04:00

I wouldn't say it questions the patriotism of the school or anything. When you're in a ceremony, everyone needs to be in the same uniform. It's not that hard.

Every time something like this is allowed, you create a new precedence. Soon, someone else will come with THEIR excuse to be out of uniform. So on and so forth.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Jun 22 at 2017 11:58 AM

2017-06-22T11:58:13-04:00

Honestly until I saw this in the new recently I had never heard of anyone graduating in uniform. The point at graduation is for everyone to look the same in dress. The students all wear the exact same thing. Even at the college I work at they can only wear the gowns we give them. I would like to see the same veteran cords we have or the stoles that some universities have given to service members at high school graduations just like college though.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2017 12:26 PM

2017-06-22T12:26:13-04:00

I know my opinion doesn't really count yet, I'm leaving for USMC recruit training on Monday. Regardless, the people who are trying to do that should know better, they learned during their time in boot camp about what the uniform of the day is supposed to be, with that being said, cap and gown is that school's uniform of the day. Everyone should stop saying the school has no patriotism, they have a set of rules just like anywhere else in the world. Just wear the uniform under the cap and gown, and take the gown off as soon as the ceremony is over and walk around or whatever they may do, nothing they can do about it after.

Response by SPC Paul Brown made Jun 22 at 2017 12:27 PM

2017-06-22T12:27:18-04:00

I personally believe it is disgraceful.

Response by TSgt Tommy Amparano made Jun 22 at 2017 12:31 PM

2017-06-22T12:31:44-04:00

The graduation ceremony is a custom in itself. The cap and robe are its own uniform in a sense. If you allow military uniforms, then you are going to have to allow every other special cause or interest to be expressed. Some kid wants to wear his Eagle Scout uniform, some kid wants to wear a rainbow colored one to represent their sexual orientation, a Black Lives matter robe, etc, etc...
I mean you would not allow special interest items or beliefs on a military uniform either.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Jun 22 at 2017 12:36 PM

2017-06-22T12:36:08-04:00

When i was hooded for my masters i IMMEDIATELY removed cap, gown, and regalia. I followed the rules (my interpretation)

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made Jun 22 at 2017 12:39 PM

2017-06-22T12:39:07-04:00

This is completely wrong.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2017 12:51 PM

2017-06-22T12:51:10-04:00

If John Doe wants to wear his uniform (or Jane Doe hers) then they earned that right. They are also joining the military (joined) to protect THE RIGHT TO DO THAT. To wear the uniform in the first place. It's called freedom of speech people...the patriotism in our country today only comes out on Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, and July 4th..unfortunately.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2017 1:08 PM

2017-06-22T13:08:20-04:00

It's absurd for people to make a hissy fit. Graduation from high school is all about the class and has a uniform of the day. Does a brand new SM who has only graduated their basic training really need to make it about them and steal a spotlight? They'll wear that uniform to all kinds of other things for the rest of the year; spare your high school class the showboating.

Response by PO2 John Kincer made Jun 22 at 2017 2:39 PM

2017-06-22T14:39:29-04:00

Two points I'd like to make, first is that wearing the uniform isn't about patriotism- it's about ones own desire for attention. Second, to those saying wear his uniform under gown- I'd like to point out how that is a unauthorized uniform modification. All the stories about this topic have also pointed out how the school have scrolls and sashes that represent his military status; when I graduated college I wore shirt and tie under my gown and had a special veteran cord.

Response by SSG Javier Antonsanti made Jun 22 at 2017 9:23 PM

2017-06-22T21:23:31-04:00

The school prescribes a uniform for the graduation, I don't think it's lack of patriotism, just what the school district wants. You graduated basic, well good for you, now get in that gown and cap, and walk through the stage.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Jun 22 at 2017 9:48 PM

2017-06-22T21:48:00-04:00

As the president of the local school board, I have to go with the Cap and Gown. The entire graduating class is celebrating their achievement and the gown allows all to celebrate as an equal to their classmates. If the best outfit you have is bluejeans and a pullover shirt, you look the same when you receive your diploma as the guy in his armani suit. We do allow "accomplishment sashes" for honor society and the army provides their enlistees with an army styled sash to indicate their affiliation.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2017 9:55 PM

2017-06-22T21:55:35-04:00

I understand the desire to wear your uniform for graduation, but the school has a set dress code. As many people have already stated here, just wear what you're told to. Your career is just beginning, there will be ample opportunity for wearing your uniform. I promise.

Response by A1C Mathew Wood made Jun 22 at 2017 11:17 PM

2017-06-22T23:17:33-04:00

PFC Roger Goff What instance are you referring to?
I will be very proud to wear my cap and gown in the future.
I feel like the only reason you would wear your dress uniform to something like that is for special attention which IMO is poor taste.

Response by SGT Doug N Kim Griswold made Jun 22 at 2017 11:28 PM

2017-06-22T23:28:43-04:00

What is it about "dress code" that is not understood? While it would be nice to allow this, it has nothing to do with patriotism. A school wants to have particular standards for a graduation, like a cap and gown, then so be it. It's their rules.

Response by MAJ Raymond Haynes made Jun 23 at 2017 2:33 AM

2017-06-23T02:33:41-04:00

If everybody else is in a Cap and Gown, What is so uniform about wearing your uniform??

Response by SGT Thomas Hudson made Jun 23 at 2017 3:18 AM

2017-06-23T03:18:10-04:00

PULL THEIR FEDERAL AND STATE FUNDING SEE IF THEY CAN SURVIVE WITHOUT IT..FAH

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2017 8:40 PM

2017-06-23T20:40:25-04:00

What if others wanted to wear some other uniform or gown?

Response by TSgt Walter Thalacker made Jun 23 at 2017 9:12 PM

2017-06-23T21:12:29-04:00

Military Graduation/Event...Military Uniform. Civilian Graduation....proper Civilian attire following dress code.