What do you think the education curriculum should be?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 03:02:25 -0500

I think kids need to be taught more useful subjects. English, math, health, gym, history, computers are a gimmie, but I think most kids should be limited to accounting because most math as adults is money related. Additionally, teach things like: Home Ec, How to change oil/tire, apply for loans, interview for jobs, accounting, CPR/AED/First Aid, etc. What do you think?

Response by PO2 Bronwen Taylor Shaffner made Feb 16 at 2018 3:22 AM

PO2 Bronwen Taylor Shaffner — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 03:22:35 -0500

Yes please! I deal with this first hand. Some who have no knowledge of basic life skills. It’s sad. How are they released into the adult world without knowing how to boil water?

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Feb 16 at 2018 5:19 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 05:19:57 -0500

Need to have a wood shop class, geography(some kids are lucky if they can find their own state on a map let alone another country in the world).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2018 5:50 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 05:50:09 -0500

I think logic and critical thinking should be taught from an early age. Philosophy teaches us how to break down an argument and create intelligent counter points, identify unreliable information, and just generally HOW to think in a logical step by step process. As opposed what we see today - emotionally driven arguments, louder rhetoric, and disreputable information.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Feb 16 at 2018 6:55 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 06:55:52 -0500

You phrase the question in a way I hadn't quite seen before, that in and of itself was quite novel. Basically, there have always been two approaches to high schools, below that, junior high/middle,and elementary school curricula have always been pretty set, I've observed, with relatively little fluctuation. At high school level, kids are generally given an option between traditional college bound versions, vs.vocational versions. In NY State, where my wife and I are, vocational high schools are either called BOCES outside of NYC, then, separaly, NYC had a purely vocational typee not falling under BOzcES,, and also specialized high schools for specific topics, science, theatre, art, etc. BOCES stands for zboad of Cooperative zEducatiomal!Svcs., imactuappy went the one for technical electronics, which, at that time, from 73-75, and yeah, I feel like Methuselah saying this, however, back then, half the class space was for technical electronics, the other half for radio and TV, which still existed as such at thatt point. I went in Freeport, Nassau County,, LI, though the school itself there no longer exists. There was also the usual construction !material taught in other programs, carpentry, concrete, heating, air conditioning, cosmetology (that one was a story in and of itself at that point, I'd soon learned)/ high school counselors, I'd also soon learned, were quickly loathe to accede to student wishes to use BOCES, I suppose NYC versions were just as quickly loathe to accede to voc ed, though, of course, that's pure surmise in my part. Formke, I actually needed to go to a pre-BOCEEs at the end of 10th grad over a summer, whereinnid built a vacuum table radio, among other things, to get an idea of what the program was like. The way BOCES typically did itnnack then was that a high school student would in 11th grade go to BOCEaS in mornings, and 1in 12th grade in afternoons, going by nus between BOCES and a normao high school the other half of any given day, which eas, I quickly learned, quite exhausting. I'd also learned later that thrtr was also an aviation program, for avionics, airframe, and powerplant (A&P), though, of course, at that point, I hadn't known about it, I'm not entirely certain whether idnhabe done it. BOCES also had serious programs in computer science, one of which I'd also spent a dwynat, in Westbury. Done, of course, using training hardware from that period, though quite thorough. A goof many BOCED high school grads also went military, as was true for NYC city VOC ed schools, and still is. However, inmNYC, I have friends who went to the different high schools for science, one in each borough, Manhattan, Brooklyn, etc., all of which had separate entrance exams, most of those are for the gifted, fused as college feeders, mainly for CUNY schools (as opposedmto SUNY)/ in NY State, now, all community colleges in all counties are deemed DUNY schools outside of NYC, and CUNY schools inside NYC, which has historically alswys had its own separate paws from the rest of NY State, though, of course, CUNY and SUNY have always acted with some level of cooperation, both of them under NYS Educ. Dept. (NYSED,l higher ed, generally termed Univ of the State of NY (USNY), which was an overarching body with he commissioner of NYSED as the USNY Chancellor. Under USNY, there were three components, SUNY Central Admin, which cooperated with CUNY central admin, of course, though was functionally separate, as I understood the matter, Empire State College (ESC), which was frequently, generally, a tenant on SUNYand/or CUNY facilities, albeit with a less rigidity, adult based ed approach and its own degrees, which included, e.g., union organization and admin for those in construction, I tried for years to interest my stepson in such a program as he's concrete union, though I got to him without success, as he was too old, and Regents External/College Degrees, which was the external version, and is now online, though that privatized a few years ago to become Excelsior College, http://www.excelsior.edu, I actually got a 2nd bachelors in math from RED/RCD, so I'm now also dee!ed an Excelsior alum, I had a friend who transferred his outside college !material into their so called "credit bank", was issued his BS(Math), and went to Navy OCS using it, RED/RCD, now Excelsior, I'd later learned, had a specialized arrangement through student demand with Navy Nuclear enlisted school, to actually accept theNavy curriculum there en masse, I know theyy, now Exelcsior, follow std A!er Council on Educ (ACE) guidelines. There are similar external schools in NJ, Edison, named for him as he was in NJ, and Oak Tree, in CT, both of which are still state programs, and, whole Excelsior (for the NY State Morton mame, excelsior) privatized, it still basically follows the same RED/RCD arrangement. Now, when I wanted to go to he Freeport BOCES, with the pre-BOCES in North Bellmore as well,, the Hugh school " counselo'r" oft my normal high school , so called, a species for which I'm afraid since then I've generally had quite little regard ever since, quite vigorously resisted me, insisting I was making a major mistake, till my parents, esp. my father, marched right in there withmke, and promptly told her to basically shit just shut up and do exactly as she was told, as shed been totally inured to the college !mentality, though, as I quickly learned, not all high school students were inclined toward. Now, I did gomundergrad first, before going military, though I do wish I'd stayed and done grad school, as well as a second bachelors I'd been in first, beforehand, as I'd been far better prepared, both I as well as my next younger brother were quite heavily conditioned by my father, who'd been Navy, tomgomthat way, I was to have gone Army ROTC, as I've said innjere many times, though I eventually went USAF OTS instead, while my next younger brother went tomUSMMA Kings Point, as we lived near there, I very nearly went to SUNY Maritime College, the SUNY equivalent of VMImor the Citadel, the maritime colleges have, I'd found, always been excellent schools of the five or so nationwide, along with the regular military junior Colleges like Valley Forge, e.g., in Pennsylvania, where, I think, Gen? Schawzkopf had gone before West Point, I believe, though mymArmy ROTC unit did train a good deal at West Point, which my PMS and APMSs were able to arrange, as it was quite nearby, just a truck ride in dupeuce and a half's upstate for orienteering, obstacle course, rappelling, formations and dining with the cadets, etc., so I got a quite good look at what West Point was really like, just after females had been admitted, I'd learned later on that ROTC students can ne nominated for the academy of their own service by a PMS/PNS PAS, for Army Navy, Air Force. I hadn't known about USPHS, and their program called COSTEP, their functional equivalent of ROTC, though I did hear about that USXh accepted maritime college grads into OCS, OIS, or direct commission more readily, if they were as USCG terms them, MARGRADs. There was also a school called the Harry Lundeberg school, now called the Paul Hall Ctr, in Piney Point, MD, with deck, engine, and galleymorograms, that my father had tried to suggest to me, it's run by the Seafarers Into Union (SIU), I similarly tried to interest my stepson in it, as well as in SEABEES, though he hadn't wanted either, or SUNY Maritime, I'm afraid, I've suggested other union based colleges for him as well, ome was run I believe by AFL CIO, though it closed a couple of urs ago now.

Nowmheres why I recounted appmof that for you: First, imgpfiguredmto give you what I'd actually seen, I've wanted to help despite my disability now, total and perm, in the present STEM tutoring concept, I've looked at Civil Air Patrol (CAP), Navy Sea Cadets, and also USCG Auxiliary, though the restrictions on me due to my being disabled are I'd learned exceedingly strict. I've also looked at VAvoc rehab and ed (VR&E), though immpretty !such barred from doing anything under them, I'm afraid, for similar reasons. Now, returning to high school, where I think the main thrust of your question is focused, as you say, there is considerable truth in what you point out, incl. using the fire, police, and E!S training for E!T/paragraph!Eric for kids, as well as linking those to Boy Scouts, Girl Scounts, Explorers, CAP, Navy Sea Cadets (which are really strict programs and/or well suited for the purpose, I've thought aboutmkerit badge counseling in electronics, physics, comp sci (CS), bioscience, etc., and I agree with you entirely, certainly, that notmapp high school students are suited immediately for college, that I accept as a given axiomatic now, by all means. Accounting, I jadmt considered, though I could certainly perceive that vocationally, the sa!e as is dome with LPN training before going for an RN, 2 or 4 ur, then grad level nursing, like nurse practitioner (NP), which is typically MSN level, or going for phys asst (PA) programs. I could!APS say he same for paralegal as well, which would gomwuite wepp, I think, with accounting, the same is true for cert !ed asst (CMA), as a case in point. He money aspect, per se, for high school students, imjadmt thought of as such, though I could likewise similarly agree with you, by all !eams. Let me send this now, of ne most eager to hear your thoughts, imhope it was of at least so!e reasonable use and/or interest, I'll try to send more later, please do give !e your thoughts, I'd find them to ne of considerable interest, certainly, many thanks

www.excelsior.edu

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Feb 16 at 2018 7:31 AM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:31:09 -0500

I believe you’ll find most of those classes are offered. It a matter of emphasis. Which are REQUIRED and which are ELECTIVE.

As a college professor i was disturbed by the number of students who were functional illiterates/innumerates. Even more disturbing was the huge gaps in their general knowledge or how much of what they knew was JUST PLAIN WRONG.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Feb 16 at 2018 7:48 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:48:00 -0500

As the old guy in this conversation, the weak point in the American Education system, aside from methodology that isn't working well, is the belief and focus that every that graduates needs to go to college. What's happened is that Public Education has generally abandoned the notion of vocational education and the places that do have it, the programs tend to be weak and often outdated. If you look at the educational model of much of Western Europe, they tend to split the educational course of the students around middle school and the non college bound students steered into real apprenticeship programs learning real world skills that are applicable to the nations industries. Here we graduate them with a mediocre scholastic education and no life skills with the qualifications to flip burgers at the nearest McDonalds. Those that can afford it can then go to a technical school to learn some real world skill, or join the Military and hopefully come out with a skill or at least money to go back to school and learn one, and the rest are left to work at Walmart.

I won't get into the growing trend of demanding BA/BS's for jobs that don't require the skills. I believe that trend is driven by that situation above, people graduate High School here with no marketable skill or work experience.

Getting down off my soapbox now.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2018 8:14 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 08:14:52 -0500

Most of the subjects you have listed are what is being taught, but I also think that those students who are leaning more towards a trade and not college should have some programs tailored to help them succeed in their soon to be profession. We have AP subjects etc for those going to college. Heck in my school district my niece was able to take college course for credit at the community college. By the time she graduated she was halfway to her associates.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2018 8:27 AM

Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 08:27:21 -0500

The high school curriculum needs to be changed. I took pre cal my senior year and I have never used it- in any shape or form. It would have been nice to be taught how to draft a resume or how ro fill out and read tax documents and job applications property. Or even learning the difference between gross and net wages/income on a pay stub

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Feb 16 at 2018 10:26 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:26:19 -0500

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member I Seem to Remember taking a Medical Tech Preparatory Course in HS. OK (Figures My Daughter is the One with the Med Tech Degree). I Learned CPR in School the First Time. The Course I Most Enjoyed was Cultural Anthropology. I did take a Home Ec Class for Guys that is an Excellent Idea. I Did take Creative Writing that was an Excellent Course Too.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2018 11:16 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:16:08 -0500

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member not to eat Tide pods. Respect. Who are good role models and who are celebrity trash.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2018 12:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 12:55:54 -0500

yes perhaps but I think a deeper understanding of our history would help also as well as cooperating with other nations and their history. Art and music also in order to bring some understanding to our culture and how we were brought up and stuff, technology stuff should be moved to college level education.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Feb 18 at 2018 11:30 AM

SPC Erich Guenther — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 11:30:06 -0500

I think I would move some of the required business ciriculumn over to Liberal Arts degrees. We need to have everyone take a Critical Thinking course. Nothing gets under my skin more than these people that outsource their thinking entirely to political websites. Second, we definitely need to require some kind of Basic Law courses on the Liberal arts side. Lots of ignorance on the interpretation of the law as well as it's historical legacy. I don't know how you can say you or take an oath to support the Constitution when you know very little about it, it's foundation, or how to interpret basic common law. It borders on shocking, how little some people know.

Response by LTC John Bush made Feb 25 at 2018 11:02 AM

LTC John Bush — Sun, 25 Feb 2018 11:02:36 -0500

You are on target. Critical thinking and practical application of knowledge to every day taske. Everyone should be able to fill out a job application, taxes, write and address a letter figure how much carpet or tile they need for a room and so on. Cooking is as much a math exercise as anything else. Critical thinking is a must particularly with all the bad stories out there. A person should be able to isolate the facts in a story or an add and determine if it makes sense and then know how to run down the facts..

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Feb 26 at 2018 3:33 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:33:06 -0500

Your first 6 subjects are givens but I'd take issue with CPR/AED and even perhaps, first aid. Your kid might bury you and him in a lawsuit that you'd probably never get out from under. That kind of action seems to be in vogue nowadays. Like you mentioned above, most things are money related. In my opinion, no matter what the curriculum is, I'd definitely like it to be taught in a more regimented environment than schools practice now.

Response by SPC Ronald Groves made Feb 28 at 2018 7:50 PM

SPC Ronald Groves — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 19:50:13 -0500

Mandatory personal finance and economics starting in elementary up through bachelor's degree

Response by Capt Jim Ross made Mar 4 at 2018 9:17 PM

Capt Jim Ross — Sun, 04 Mar 2018 21:17:34 -0500

I agree students should learn daily skills that can be of help to them once they have moved out on their own. Also, more skills sets such as welding, plumbing, HVAC etc. should be addressed so students would be willing to go to a Junior College or Technical School to learn a trade instead of bein brainwashed into thinking they need to go to a 4 yr college. NOT EVERYONE IS CAPABLE OF GOING TO COLLEGE!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2018 1:27 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 01:27:07 -0400

The problem with teaching things in schools that will prepare a kid for life after high school that doesn't involve college, is that most schools in most states have funding tied to student that continue to post secondary education. Post secondary being college of some sort, and trade and technical schools not on that list. The entire system has been set for students to funnel to college wether they will make it or not, so long as they pay up front.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2018 11:36 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 11:36:26 -0400

I have multiple people in my family that are educators and to be honest the socioeconomic norms that drive our country are what shape developmental skills of kids. You have to look at what motivates kids these days compared what motivated kids 20-30 years ago and what motivated their parents. Everyone is too busy working multiple jobs trying to pay bills and struggling to live paycheck to paycheck that they forget they are the ones that should be teaching life skills to their kids. Who taught you to cook or to change a tire? Probably your parents. Life skills should be taught by your parents. Teachers already have ever changing curriculums that they have to learn how to teach practically every year. Our educational system isn’t to blame for kids not having life skills, parents are. Parents rely on devices to keep their kids occupied and dope them up on drugs like Adderall (which teachers have to do pages upon pages of supporting documentation on called RTIs about the students behavior and grasp of knowledge which takes away from planning and teaching times) these days instead of spending quality time with them and teaching the life skills they need.

Social media has taught kids they don’t need an education to be a millionaire, they can simply become a model, actor, rapper, or a YouTube sensation. When that becomes what kids aspire to be they become lazy. Give your kids chores and make sure they do their homework and help them with projects from school and ground them if they don’t or if their grades slip. Make them get a job during high school so they know the importantce of respecting adults and your peers, responsibility of showing up on time, earning money and how to manage it. Don’t just give your kids things because they want it. Make them earn it by working for it. If they have a job they can make their own money for iPads and the Apple Watch if they want it. People are too busy trying to “keep up with the Joneses” or nowadays with the Kardashian’s. A want is not a need or a necessity, and parents should weigh the benefits get your child a kindle instead of an iPad. They cost WAY less than an iPad or computer and they are practical.

Why not ask teachers how the curriculum should change to benefit kids? They above of all people should know what needs to be improved or changed!! How about more funding to public education and giving teachers funds and resources to teach their students and for classroom supplies instead of it coming out of their pockets. The government should test out educational programs on a small level before it is implemented nationwide in case it isn’t a success.. the entire nation won’t fail and have to regroup every time “No Child Left Behind” or “Common Core” curriculums get put in place. Just a thought.

Response by SGT George Smith made May 2 at 2018 1:53 AM

SGT George Smith — Wed, 02 May 2018 01:53:57 -0400

There are many good points about education. I also think parents rely on the school too much. They need to start teaching responsibility, honesty, respect, consequences and much more starting way before kids even start school. Teachers are not baby sitters. I’m 74 so a lot of my views are from way back but we didn’t have schools under guard. If kids screwed up, they caught hell for it and never did kids talk to adults like they d not. Start building a base when kids are young, then let teachers teach. Wether it be college or trades.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2018 5:22 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 May 2018 17:22:55 -0400

I think we need to identify the skills that children will be most adept at pursuing and gearing teaching towards those skills. Children with a higher aptitude towards arts, sciences, engineering, etc need to be guided toward the career path that will give them the most fullfillment. That way we don't have a generation of twenty-something year olds living at home trying to figure out what to do with their liberal arts degree.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2018 6:41 PM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 May 2018 18:41:01 -0400

So to answer this we need to look at a load of variables, which I do not have the time to list nor the capability to know them all (as no one person could), but I do have a good grasp at some of the major problems. First, STEM. So there are a number of issues that are creeping into the so called education system. One issue is what Dr. Peterson aptly called the vile den of post modernist neo-Marxists that have infected the system and rendered it into an indoctrination cult for communists rather than a place of learning to think and communicate. That's how you get some of the stupidest little cult followers like David Hogg. So one of the first things I would do is to disassemble CAIR as a terror supporting organization and to carefully sift through burn every one of the revisionist history books that have been adapted to be "Islamic friendly" which has been happening since the 80s. Also common core math needs to be slain, have its head cut off and placed on London bridge in Lake Havasu for all to marvel at that piece of horrid flotsam.

That being said, we have to get better at the core math, and hard sciences. We need to change the Universities to accept applied science programs rather than only theoretical ones. That's a huge difference as applied mathematics and applied physics are so much fun! Kids are still kids and need to have a bit of fun feeling like Tony Stark® or an astronaut while riding a class made hovercraft exploring Newtonian physics. We need foreign languages applied earlier, because the ability to think in another language opens up pathways in the brain that are very useful for other things. Physical education needs to be lead by truly qualified instructors, and not the aggregate meat head sorts that tend to find their way into these low wage positions. We need English, and this includes grammar which I am even finding deficiencies in due to modern communication devices. People need to know how to sew and cook. I don't care if you're a man or a woman. I have patched up far too many things in life to not have this as a useful skill. Cooking is a core skill. If you're a man thinking a woman is going to do it for you then you're an idiot, and it's also pathetic to think that way. If you're a woman thinking you don't need to or you're fighting the patriarchy, then you too are an idiot. Learning to cook not only is a healthy thing to do that secures a skill in core survival, but it also ties into economics and independence. Auto and shop classes are critical for anyone that is going to interact with the world and have any sort of utility. It is physically impossible to live in Mommy and Daddy's house your entire life with them still around to do the maintenance. Relying on someone else to fix everything is an economic sink hole, and renders a person into a useless human being. History, and I mean the gritty and most unbiased sources possible must be used. Children need to understand that well over 100 million and maybe even 200 million people were obliterated by the evil reaches of communism in the 20th century. They need to understand that Islam is responsible for the greatest enslavement of humanity in all time (260 million, where most of the black slaves to the Americas came from Muslim slave traders) and in 1400 years has murdered over 280 million people with no comparison in murderous ideologies except to be exceeded by communism. As SFC Boyd said, they need to be taught critical thinking, and begin their journey into philosophy. Philosophy is better comprehended at a college age and more rigor can be applied there. Health and first aid are of paramount importance. Every kid should know how to use a tourniquet, apply a compression bandage, and how to make a triangle bandage sling.

We need to be developing children to be individuals but also members of a community, and able to understand that life is hard but we don't need to make it harder than it already is. We need to make them realize that they need to "pick up their suffering and bare it, march up the hill, and try to make things a little bit better." We need to kill the idea of "rights" and the victim mentality, and empower kids with the burden of growth that responsibility gives them. And, in the midst of all this we need to make sure they have some fun and enjoy being kids, because the world is a place that will take that youth from them in a blink and we need some adaptive and well rounded adults rather than the pandemonium of Peter Pan infantilized for life self appointed victims that the current system is vomiting forth on an increasing basis.

Response by SGT Steven Eberly made May 19 at 2018 7:35 AM

SGT Steven Eberly — Sat, 19 May 2018 07:35:45 -0400

Plus how to write. Every one I met that is under 35, I have problem try to read what they have written.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jun 19 at 2018 12:46 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 12:46:22 -0400

Thanks for sharing SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member. I prefer a traditional approach to education - reading, writing and arithmetic, with logic, history based on national interest not pop culture, and physical science with emphasis on scientific method for evaluation of hypotheses.
Education should focus on teaching children to think and resolve problems to prepare them for the future.