What does that direction "We’re on Big Boy Rules" mean to you?

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 19:16:50 -0400

Let’s say you’re on a two-week mission and the Company Commander and First Sergeant say, “For the duration of this mission, there will be no drinking alcohol. We’re on Big Boy Rules and we’re not watching you all the time. Do the right thing.”

What does that direction mean to you? Why?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2020 7:24 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 19:24:25 -0400

To me it means that trust has been earned and any breach of that trust will be met with swift and meaningful punishment.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Jun 12 at 2020 7:25 PM

1SG John Highfill — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 19:25:18 -0400

Any lawful command should be direct and to the point spell it out leaves no open interpretation

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 12 at 2020 8:53 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 20:53:20 -0400

Simply Act like an adult, not a fricking Kid!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 13 at 2020 5:48 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 05:48:47 -0400

Meaning do the right thing all of the time. Don’t drink.

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Jun 13 at 2020 8:23 AM

1SG Alan Boggs — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 08:23:57 -0400

I am sure this will be an unpopular comment among West Point and Annapolis crowd but... It sounds like the troops are being told alcohol is off limits and if there are any alcohol related disturbances there will be repercussions but, we are not going to be walking around checking up on you to make sure this policy is being observed.
There is a big difference between 20 year old jr enlisted drinking for the purpose of getting trashed and howling at the moon and 30+ year olds quietly having a beer or tumbler.
Obviously if this is in an operational environment then no alcohol means no alcohol period.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Jun 13 at 2020 8:42 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 08:42:22 -0400

It means it is a no alcohol Mission and they don't have the time to baby sit. Conduct your self in an adult and professional manner until the Mission is complete. Failure to do so could be very costly UCMJ or Courts Martial.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jun 13 at 2020 8:51 AM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 08:51:57 -0400

It means you are being tested on your ability to be self-disciplined and honest. Your command team may say they are not watching but all leaders are watching. If you do the right thing you stay out of deep doo-doo and learn yet another leadership tool for your own use down the line. Its very important to to the right thing even when you are not being observed. Now if you can not go without drinking for a short while you have big issues and even bigger ones when your COC has to deal with you. In the end it isn't just about you, its about your whole unit, you do dumb shit it effects everyone and can end the careers of not only yourself but of good leaders in your unit.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Jun 13 at 2020 12:38 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 12:38:49 -0400

Interesting. I was a deployed Commander and we never used that terminology. I did tell them"what goes TDY usually doesn't stay TDY, so be careful what you do and what you bring home"

Response by SSG George Holtje made Jun 13 at 2020 1:55 PM

SSG George Holtje — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 13:55:24 -0400

As a squad leader who doesn’t drink anyway, I would say “I’ll be watching closely.” As a retiree, who been to many of this rodeo, Watch your Ps and Qs, all of you, lower and higher. RHIP does not qualify in this situation. I don’t respect do as I say not as I do leadership

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 13 at 2020 4:47 PM

SSG Brian G. — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 16:47:20 -0400

It means that you are supposed to be adults and are going to be treated like adults. You are being trusted and they don't have the time to sit here and molly coddle you and watch what you do every minute of every hour. However should you betray that trust, punishment will be swift and memorable.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2020 5:46 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Jun 2020 17:46:39 -0400

It means I have better things to do than watch you, but if you are caught, much pain will ensue.

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Jun 15 at 2020 10:48 AM

LCDR Joshua Gillespie — Mon, 15 Jun 2020 10:48:42 -0400

I believe there's an obvious difference between the behavior patterns of twenty-three year-olds, and thirty-three year olds (let alone forty-three year olds). Time, experience, and authority SHOULD come with fewer leashes... and far fewer "gotcha" rules which (let's be honest) are more about ensuring people further up the chain avoid getting their feathers singed than ensuring the safety and well-being of the rank and file.

I whole-heartedly agree these "rules" usually equate to "trust"... but wouldn't it be just a whole lot simpler to expect an E-6, E-7, or O-4, O-5 to have the maturity to make wise choices in their "off hours", as opposed to making rules that apply to all... but will probably only be followed by (and in truth, are aimed specifically at) some?

Response by SGT Allen Treviranus made Jun 15 at 2020 1:51 PM

SGT Allen Treviranus — Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:51:54 -0400

To me it means you are on your own, but if you mess up you reap the consequences of your actions. Usually we were on "big boy rules" when the restrictions were lifted though.

Response by CPT Saad Muhi made Jun 15 at 2020 8:03 PM

CPT Saad Muhi — Mon, 15 Jun 2020 20:03:23 -0400

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Response by 1SG Mike Turnipseed made Jun 22 at 2020 5:43 PM

1SG Mike Turnipseed — Mon, 22 Jun 2020 17:43:02 -0400

To me it means that the order is unclear and should have avoided the last 2 sentences. Drink at your own peril, if I catch you it’s gonna be your ass. Had a similar order given to me about 25 years ago as a young E-5, that resulted in a maximum FG ART15, I was able to learn & grow from the experience. Not sure today’s Army would be as forgiving.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2020 10:47 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 10:47:12 -0400

1SG Highfill and SGT Treviranus together beat me to it.
1SG H: says basically the order is ineffective because it is unclear.
SGT T: says basically that you were told not to drink but we don't support the rule and are just passing it along so make your move and you're on your own.

I agree. My opinion is that it means- We are required to tell you not to drink but we are not going to be checking to see if you comply and we're not going to clarify what that means so if you get caught drinking we will be required to punish you.

I think that the best way to handle this is to pass along the order from higher word for word and not confuse the situation with vagueness. There is no need to announce what you plan on not doing.

Response by CPT Saad Muhi made Nov 19 at 2020 2:01 AM

CPT Saad Muhi — Thu, 19 Nov 2020 02:01:15 -0500

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