What ever happened about Congress pushing for "one camouflage pattern for all branches"?

2017-01-07T20:12:52-05:00

Response by TSgt David L. made Jan 7 at 2017 8:50 PM

2017-01-07T20:50:53-05:00

We did that once. They were generally called BDUs and DCUs. What was wrong with those? Sounds like a lobbyist got to a bunch of folks. MONEY! KICKBACKS? Nahhhhh.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2017 8:59 PM

2017-01-07T20:59:01-05:00

They were talking about that around 2010 and money punchers came back and said that going to one uniform will not save money. This is what big leadership told us as we were getting ready to change over to Navy NWU II and III uniform. Actually it was the SOF community that pushing for one uniform.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 7 at 2017 9:10 PM

2017-01-07T21:10:56-05:00

Sounds like some member of Congress has a constituent (maybe a brother-in-law) in the camo fabric biz...

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Jan 7 at 2017 9:26 PM

2017-01-07T21:26:30-05:00

Apparently congress is not as big on inclusiveness when it comes to the armed services

Response by Cpl Joshua Caldwell made Jan 7 at 2017 9:47 PM

2017-01-07T21:47:53-05:00

They stopped that to focus on transgender acceptance. Apparently they thought that would be more important to war fighting.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2017 11:19 PM

2017-01-07T23:19:14-05:00

Obamacare is the priority right now. Then the Great Wall of Mexico, then ethics reform, Russia reconciliation, ISIS, Supreme Court justice nominee then maybe we'll get around to a unified uniforms for the military branches

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Jan 8 at 2017 2:55 AM

2017-01-08T02:55:24-05:00

I was an active-duty Marine when the decision was made to change the uniforms from BDUs to something different. I thought it was all about some general wanting to put something else on his resume, or someone had a friend in the textile industry, something like that.

And then I saw a picture of a Marine in digicammies standing next to a Marine in BDUs, and it was literally harder for me to focus my eyes on the guy in the digicammies. That made a believer out of me. Later, when I would see a formation from a distance, it was harder to tell where one Marine ended and the next Marine began. Marines would blend in with the treeline behind them better. Everything about the uniform was just better.

I understand why some people might refer back to the good old days when everyone wore the same uniform, but there was a legitimate reason why the Marines changed to an entirely new uniform.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2017 5:39 PM

2017-01-08T17:39:21-05:00

The thing is that the there were multiple tests on different camo patterns over the last 15 years. They constantly have selected winner for every test but for some reason it's never chosen for actual use. Hell, Multicam has been around since what, 2001? Yet we didn't see it go mainstream until roughly 2010 by regular units in theater. So much resources and money has already been wasted constantly over these things. One of the major reasons I asked this too is because the Army is switching over to Scorpion W2 (modified Multicam between Crye and the Army) and I would hate to spend a lot of coin on new uniforms (boots, sox, belts, t-shirts, and patches under the new tan 499 color) just to find out that we're all changing to another pattern in just a few short years. We're already having to buy the new black PT uniforms which can rack up a lot of coin as well.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Jan 8 at 2017 6:34 PM

2017-01-08T18:34:02-05:00

The most fiscal responsible decision would be one uniform for all and allow each service to customize it however they fit. As for combat, they should pick a pattern for that particular environment and issue that to all troops. As they environment changes, they uniform could change as well. Trying to find one uniform that fits in all environments will never work. Might as well adapt to the situation.

Honestly though, the services will never agree and they don't mind wasting tax payers money just so each service can have its own personal uniform.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2017 8:47 PM

2017-01-08T20:47:53-05:00

If Congress wants all service branches to use the same camo pattern so be it, but it won't save money. The services all buy enough of whatever uniform they use to get bulk pricing.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2017 8:53 PM

2017-01-08T20:53:26-05:00

They are still pushing for it. Marines no longer wear desert cammies Navy is transitioning to our woodland cammies and the Army is phasing out the ACU. Slowly but surely we will get to one pattern and then be one large branch

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jan 8 at 2017 8:56 PM

2017-01-08T20:56:09-05:00

Lets go back to Woodland camo BDUs and 3 color DCUs for DirkaDirkastan...It works

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Jan 9 at 2017 7:12 AM

2017-01-09T07:12:29-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I don't think I've seen a very good response so far, a lot of good opinions but none really saying the true reason.

My understanding (don't quote me on this) is that there was legislation passed that said that if a new uniform were to be created from now on that it would be for all branches. What it didn't dictate was that all branches were required to unify right now and get rid of old patterns. As a result you see the transitions we are seeing right now where the Army and Navy are switching to more effective patterns that they had developed before the legislation.

This doesn't affect the Marines or the Air Force who are for now continuing to use their current patterns. Likely the Marines won't switch for a long time unless a battleground requires something other than their woodland or desert MARPAT.

As for the Air Force, I keep my hopes up that we will transition to the Scorpion or OCP that the Army and deployed AF already use. With a new Chief of Staff it could happen but at the same time we may see the blind logic of now retired General Welsh continue. His logic was that it wasn't a cost effective move for the AF despite there being no research needed into OCP and Scorpions effectiveness as well as the fact that all of the AF rank/name/branch/unit patches already exist for OCP. The Air Force also currently pays double for uniforms as they issue an unusable combat uniform to all new enlisted and officers and then issue OCP and Scorpion for deployers. One day someone will have the common sense to realize the best move now would be to just adopt OCP or Scorpion and be done with the "vanity" patterns still in use.

Response by SGT James Miller made Jan 9 at 2017 5:34 PM

2017-01-09T17:34:27-05:00

Can't do it. Every brach is special. :)

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jan 10 at 2017 9:15 AM

2017-01-10T09:15:24-05:00

I cringe every time I see Congress pushing anything universal for all services. It just doesn't make any sense at all except possibly for fabric manufacturers in some Congressman's district.

Response by SSgt Brad Becker made Jan 10 at 2017 10:39 AM

2017-01-10T10:39:12-05:00

Never going to happen the Marines and Navy have their own, Navy does not need the same pattern as the Army as they are on the water. The Army does not want the Navy's pattern, the Marines have the pattern they are happy with why do you care. Every one is happy.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2017 10:48 AM

2017-01-10T10:48:52-05:00

It is crazy to me that after 10 years and all that money....we are now back to a faded BDU pattern. I am not complaining though, happy to be back in green.

Response by TSgt George Rodriguez made Jan 10 at 2017 12:37 PM

2017-01-10T12:37:54-05:00

Camouflage patterns should be adjusted to the areas of operation to give our troops the best ability to blend in with the terrain. One pattern or color will not suffice for any given situation.

Response by Claudio Alpaca made Jan 10 at 2017 2:36 PM

2017-01-10T14:36:33-05:00

perhaps initially there my be diffidence, but we are sure this is consequential, that is my opinion, by our acting on a multidomain field , a field where there is not necessity to have different camouflage patterns but one is omogeinizing us on a only Army and making visible our ability to act on air, sea, ground, like constituted by or immerged on. One camouflage patern enhance such our ability and make visible we are warrior able to fight, when required, all domains as members of all branch Army is divided on.

Response by CPL Brian Clouser made Jan 10 at 2017 5:03 PM

2017-01-10T17:03:09-05:00

Some big company brought off congress and the generals in charge to drop it either that or it made too much sense for congress to understand, lol.
My idea is to have one Class C uniform for three of the branches , Navy would have 2 one for sea duty and one for shore duty. Each branch could kept their Class As and Bs. It would save the taxpayers money, money that could and should go to taking care of our veterans

Response by SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD made Jan 10 at 2017 6:34 PM

2017-01-10T18:34:11-05:00

What? Never heard of it. At this point, who cares.

Response by CW3 Dick McManus made Jan 10 at 2017 11:52 PM

2017-01-10T23:52:52-05:00

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Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2017 4:31 AM

2017-01-11T04:31:09-05:00

I remember in 2014, ADS, Crye Precision and two other companies were the top 4 in the final test. Then all of a sudden they all got dropped and we're now having to switch to Scorpion W2 which wasn't even in the original testing. Then again, it's always political.

ADS US4CES camo patterns below.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2017 6:15 AM

2017-01-11T06:15:31-05:00

This picture was from an Army Times article showing these four companies were the finalists in the future uniforms (Crye Precision was the 4th but not shown). Then all of a sudden they were all dropped to have Scorpion W2. Even interesting enough is that MARPAT was taken directly from the Canadian pattern CADPAT and then changed the color pallette to call it their own. I just can't justify all the wasted time, resources and taxpayers money into something that never ends up being utilized.

Response by PO2 Tom Belcher made Jan 11 at 2017 6:01 PM

2017-01-11T18:01:37-05:00

I think it is an ok idea it would save a lot of money.

Response by SPC(P) Carlos Santini made Jan 25 at 2017 11:24 PM

2017-01-25T23:24:08-05:00

What was wrong with the original uniforms?? All they needed to do was update the material or pockets and kept the same camo.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made May 14 at 2018 4:51 PM

2018-05-14T16:51:57-04:00

Congress would be lucky if they ever came to terms on something as a whole.

Response by MSgt Michael Bischoff made May 14 at 2018 6:26 PM

2018-05-14T18:26:33-04:00

Money

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made May 14 at 2018 7:29 PM

2018-05-14T19:29:36-04:00

Why don't we all just got to Safety Orange and get it all over with.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2018 2:30 AM

2018-08-21T02:30:04-04:00

The Army has OCP’s. They Air Force followed behind them and just recently started switching to them, the navy (from what one of my buddies in the navy) said they were gonna switch to OCP’s within the next 2-3 years (thank god because they have some weird looking uniforms now), aaaand idk about the marines, I think they are gonna stick with their MARPAT that they have. Idk about the coast guard... they do their own thing.

Response by MSgt Nathan Krawitz made Sep 23 at 2018 7:52 PM

2018-09-23T19:52:20-04:00

Here's an idea. Figure out the best pattern for the environment. Whoever is in that environment gets uniforms in that patter. Right now, there is one pattern for Afghanistan. Expand the concept.

It might result in multiple patterns, but uniformity. On a ship? Multiple shades of gray. Anyone doing anything topside gets the pattern. This involves Army on their boats and Marines as ship's company. In the snow? White and off whites. In the desert? Tans. In woods? Greens. Working stateside on base? Varying shades of urban patterns, or adopt one of other existing patterns as appropriate.

It's just a pattern. Each branch can build the uniform as it sees fit.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2018 8:13 PM

2018-09-23T20:13:19-04:00

The stupidest thing he Army did when they went to the ACUs is making all their individual equipment in the same pattern. It would have been smarter to do what the Marine Corps did and make it neutral like the coyote brown so it’s interchangeable in theaters. Now that we’re in OCPs, we have to replace perfectly good flak vests, ruck sacks, sleep systems, etc., to a whole new pattern. That or just have mismatched gear until it wears out.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2018 12:44 PM

2018-09-25T12:44:56-04:00

Palms were greased!

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2018 8:01 AM

2018-09-26T08:01:28-04:00

MARPAT is the best in my opinion

Response by PO2 Brett Baune made Sep 26 at 2018 11:51 AM

2018-09-26T11:51:42-04:00

Makes sense to unify the branches to a single pattern from a identification standpoint, but I don't see how a single pattern will work from an operational standpoint. Multicam works for what we use it for today, but you really need 4 patterns to be effective. Green, for jungle, woods, spring, summer. White, alpine, snow, winter, anything far north. FDE, desert, fall, arid environments. And grey, urban and night.

To do this, that sort of forces all branches to be bogged down with the navy's problem of having to have half a dozen sea bags just to have everything you need. The navy has far fewer uniforms than when I first joined, and I think there is a good lesson in that. Less is more.

Response by SFC S.t. Helms (Ret) made Sep 26 at 2018 7:36 PM

2018-09-26T19:36:35-04:00

It's the dumbest this we have next to having different vehicles and aircraft.. On top of that.. we have two Army's. The Army and Corp. Eliminate one.

Response by PO3 D Tommy Coughlin made Sep 27 at 2018 7:27 PM

2018-09-27T19:27:46-04:00

Can't get the Navy to commit to a uniform long enough to make it happen.

Response by MSG Steve Collier made Sep 27 at 2018 8:40 PM

2018-09-27T20:40:37-04:00

A Marine will wear what issued... The Navy needs blue, except SEALS and Sea Bees who need true protective coloration...
The Army should wear functional camo, but there's also a need to look cool so they need something different than the Marines...
The Air Force is competing with the Army for the cooler camo so they buy new camo, but just as the Special Ops folks in the Navy, Air Force Special Ops needs functional coloration...
Now the Coast Guard, like the Marines they'll wear what is issued...
Remember, there were paragraphs instructing soldiers on the proper method to roll up their utility uniform sleeves. The Marines just rolled them up.

Response by A1C Lexas Granger made Sep 30 at 2018 9:24 PM

2018-09-30T21:24:15-04:00

Their attention towards this issue has been shifted towards acceptance of all individuals, legal and illegal immigrants, LGBTQ+ issues and their rights, abortion and it’s legality or abortion being illegal, Trump and his agenda he’s trying to push, environmental concerns and issues, and other things.

Although a “One Service Camouflaged Uniform” would save money in production and distribution. This topic is trivialized by other concerns. Also remember the cost goes to the lowest bidder and they may not be satisfied by their vendors choices in styles of uniform.

To be fair I feel each service should use variations of the multi-cam uniforms to distinguish between branches of service. Different patterns that is, using the same color pallets as each other. Then think about effectiveness in combat and job specific needs. Then formulate a good balance for every branch.

Ta-da. I give you the solution.

Response by PFC Robert L. Gonzales made Oct 3 at 2018 10:29 PM

2018-10-03T22:29:42-04:00

Terrain should always be the reason for different camo...never for uniformity.

Response by PFC Robert L. Gonzales made Oct 3 at 2018 10:31 PM

2018-10-03T22:31:14-04:00

Notice 1 and 6 blend best into the terrain in the picture.. the others stand out like a sore thumb but might be appropriate for other terrain

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Oct 12 at 2018 2:32 PM

2018-10-12T14:32:43-04:00

One pattern, because being in North Europe, The Sand Box, The Artic, At Sea, can all be covered by one pattern.

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Oct 14 at 2018 9:03 PM

2018-10-14T21:03:53-04:00

Congress doesn't have a "Battalion" that jumps in ahead of the Warriors...so camouflage patterns are none of their business.

Response by SGT Steve Burczyk made Oct 27 at 2018 10:57 PM

2018-10-27T22:57:16-04:00

One camo pattern for all branches is logistically & cost savings especially for personnel stationed outside of their designated military branch's (i.e. Marines or Sailors stationed at Army or Air Force Installations or vice versa) & being stationed at remote duty assignments (Shemya AFB in the Aleutian Islands to Lajes Field AFB Azores) for example that have limited clothing sales items for the other branches.

Response by PO2 Brad Broerman made Nov 26 at 2018 8:53 AM

2018-11-26T08:53:21-05:00

Unless you're a Seal, SeaBee, or medic deployed with the Marines, why does Navy need camo? Dungarees and the blue coveralls were perfect for shipboard life. Similar with Air Force I would imagine. For Marines and Army, It should depend on the mission and the terrain. Get politics out of it, and get a set of patterns that work in specific environments (desert, urban, jungle, forest, arctic, etc) and stick with those.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Dec 1 at 2018 11:05 PM

2018-12-01T23:05:34-05:00

This is a loade subject isn't it? OCP for every service! Well lets see, NAVY; they're at see, the sea is blue, wearing OCP uniforms, you'll blend in perfectly. The "blue uniforms" are bad enough looking, but what happens when a sailor falls off tbe ship at sea? He/she is totally lost! AIR FORCE; no problem. ARMY; Well it's required they be camouflaged, so no problem. MARINES; also required to be hidden in combat. Just keep their covers cornered and the overly pressed uniforms down to a minimum. Coast Guard; same as the NAVY. But when each services SOF units has to operate in a conflict, yes. As for the other types let's wait for the zcongressional circus to make its decision.

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Dec 2 at 2018 3:38 AM

2018-12-02T03:38:36-05:00

The wind blew, and they forgot.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2019 10:35 AM

2019-01-12T10:35:38-05:00

We are basically already there. Both Army and Air Force will be using OCP by April 2021. Navy and Marine Corp will have similar patterns by OCT 2019. Would be better if Navy chose Coyote Brown for accessories and boots, but they wanted to retain some clash.

Response by CWO2 Matt Johnston made Jan 12 at 2019 7:56 PM

2019-01-12T19:56:45-05:00

Quick Google search will tell you that full implementation isn't until 2021.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/http://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-08-22/making-a-21st-century-u-s-military-uniform-every-branch-can-wear

These things take time....

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Response by SPC Stephen Walsh made Jan 15 at 2019 12:32 PM

2019-01-15T12:32:09-05:00

Never could understand Camo for Navy or Air Force (except Seabees or Air Commandos). If your in Navy Camo and wind up in Sea they will never find you..

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2019 6:15 AM

2019-01-17T06:15:14-05:00

The marine chief said something & thrn it was no more

Response by COL Mark Crowley made Jan 17 at 2019 4:53 PM

2019-01-17T16:53:42-05:00

At the risk of incurring the wrath of my Marine Corps brothers, that would be a capital idea, even yours truly would wear the MCP even though I'm US Army all the way! yeah yeah, I know the Marines say ARMY is an achronym for Aren't Really Marines Yet, and I say to them HA! and a big HOOAH to them

Response by SGT Lynia Ghormley made Jan 18 at 2019 9:39 AM

2019-01-18T09:39:52-05:00

Camouflage should be designed and worn to suit the terrain, not a military branch, special force, or lobbyist. I think we can all agree on this. Tactical circumstances must dictate clothing.

Response by SSG Red Hoffman made Jan 18 at 2019 9:50 AM

2019-01-18T09:50:30-05:00

Are we talking about pattern or color?? Pattern and color would both be different depending on what part of the world they would be located. In Alaska, they had white camouflage; in the middle east, tan camouflage; In south east Asia they had camouflage likened to the terrain. Stateside we were all issued the same OD utility uniforms and they made way for the BDUs. Also, color does segregate the branches and rightfully so. They all train differently so making them identifiable by the type of uniform they wear could become a matter of importance. Not sure why Congress would try to make them all the same. Like someone said in this thread.....maybe members of Congress has a family member in the camouflage business.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 18 at 2019 4:45 PM

2019-01-18T16:45:07-05:00

We can't see the stealth uniform.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Jan 19 at 2019 9:44 PM

2019-01-19T21:44:37-05:00

Probably more to do with Service pride than Congress.

Response by SN Mike Duffy made Jan 20 at 2019 1:17 PM

2019-01-20T13:17:40-05:00

We messed around with it 40-50 years ago. This idea is some people's liberation army BS. Different jobs require different clothes.

Response by SFC Randall Atchison made Jan 21 at 2019 3:43 PM

2019-01-21T15:43:49-05:00

One utility uniform for all branches!

Response by Col Robert Ginn made Jan 22 at 2019 6:00 PM

2019-01-22T18:00:42-05:00

Who gives a rat's ASS ? I can't believe you children are concerned with such nonsense.

Response by SPC Joe Davenport made Feb 17 at 2019 5:16 PM

2019-02-17T17:16:38-05:00

THe supply chain is major driver. If you have only one pattern then you don't need as many jobs in as many congressional districts and states. Oh and gets even more minute - the Navy has it's own special flag design for camo! Yes indeed on navy the flag looks like it is flapping in the breeze o the fantail of a destroyer.

Response by CPT Keith Whitter made Feb 22 at 2019 11:00 PM

2019-02-22T23:00:15-05:00

Why would anyone ever expect a decision to come from Congress?

Response by Brad Miller made Feb 25 at 2019 2:53 PM

2019-02-25T14:53:28-05:00

Would one pattern really be effective? Granted, it would save a LOT of money (and make the cool "trademark" patterns go away), but, as a civie, why does the Navy even NEED camo for the warm bodies? Ships, yes, crew -- why?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2020 2:17 AM

2020-01-20T02:17:10-05:00

Just a heads up on this topic. There are now 3 branches adopting ACU's in the OCP (Scorpion W-2 camo) pattern.

U.S. Army
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Space Force

Mainly it was due to saving on uniform costs and not wasting money on developing a new one we don't need at this time and I'm totally onboard with that.

Response by SCPO William Akin made May 1 at 2020 12:13 PM

2020-05-01T12:13:14-04:00

Change the one on the far left to that weird ass blue the Navy used to have and you'll next seasons Shore duty working uniform..

Response by SSG John Jensen made Jan 24 at 2021 9:38 PM

2021-01-24T21:38:14-05:00

wore my old OD field jacket to work once - everybody at the shop asked if it was my Dad's, when I said it was mine they all commented that I was really old.