What ever happened to good old-fashioned FUN in the Armed Forces?

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Sat, 02 May 2015 14:00:42 -0400

It seems like the "fun" is being beat out of this generation of soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines. An Article 15 for taking a fish on a parachute jump? The CO of a cruiser fired for taking the ship's mascot? It is though there is a generation someplace that is determined to eliminate any great "sea stories" to tell their friends and grandchildren......

What's up?

fun, service, discipline,

Response by SGT Michael Touchet made May 2 at 2015 2:05 PM

SGT Michael Touchet — Sat, 02 May 2015 14:05:15 -0400

I think if you do the crime you have to do the time. In the case of the jumping fish, you have to consider his inattention could have caused an accident so if you let that go then where is the line drawn?

Response by Lt Col Fred Marheine, PMP made May 2 at 2015 2:06 PM

Lt Col Fred Marheine, PMP — Sat, 02 May 2015 14:06:30 -0400

Pre-emptive CYA...

Punish any rule infraction immediately and you avoid having your judgement questioned if/when it comes to the attention of any who might choose to exploit it for their own agenda.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2015 2:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 May 2015 14:36:48 -0400

Fun is offensive.

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2015 2:39 PM

1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 May 2015 14:39:17 -0400

Let us define the term “Fun” - enjoyment, amusement, or lighthearted pleasure. Now would it be fair to say that one of the essential components of any formidable military is “Discipline”? Now let’s define the term “Discipline” - the practice of training people to obey rules or a code of behavior, using punishment to correct disobedience. Both of these terms are rather contradictory, would you agree? (Playing devil’s advocate here) Do you think that one must be sacrificed for the other? Which one is more important?

Respectfully,
Jason T. Blanco

Response by SSG Kenneth Lanning made May 2 at 2015 2:47 PM

SSG Kenneth Lanning — Sat, 02 May 2015 14:47:16 -0400

Once I no longer fall under UCMJ I think there's a few happy stories of drunken WTF moments I'll share; until then I'll just CMA and remain silent...if nobody gets hurt and no personal property is damaged, I really don't see the point in pursuing things-having said that, there's a right time and a wrong time to air out the laundry lol

Response by SPC Charles Brown made May 2 at 2015 3:03 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Sat, 02 May 2015 15:03:25 -0400

I blame it on Political Correctness, which as most of us have figured out is neither political or correct.

C.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made May 2 at 2015 3:10 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Sat, 02 May 2015 15:10:23 -0400

We got the religion and the Army turned into a corporation. Not like the old days when you could drink, cuss and chase women. When you had old timers who could drink all nightl, get up and soldier all day.

When you had mess halls instead of dining facilities. When you sent problem soldiers to the stockade and they came out better soldiers.

Before your career revolved around PT tests andArticle 15s left your MPRJ when you left post.

When artillery brigades were artillery brigades not fires brigades. When leaders led there troops rather than managed them.

When soldiering was fun.....maybe I am just getting old.

Response by MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM made May 2 at 2015 3:34 PM

MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM — Sat, 02 May 2015 15:34:45 -0400

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!!!!

Response by SrA Jonathan Carbonaro made May 2 at 2015 3:39 PM

SrA Jonathan Carbonaro — Sat, 02 May 2015 15:39:20 -0400

We have Fun, its called Mandatory Fun days. Where you better be there and have fun... or else.

Response by TSgt Christopher D. made May 2 at 2015 5:18 PM

TSgt Christopher D. — Sat, 02 May 2015 17:18:20 -0400

I dunno about my sister services, but the Air Force had nearly become a one-mistake Air Force. One mess-up and buh-bye.

In 2013, they offered early outs to NCOs with 15+ years of service granting retirement benefits, and as I heard, AFPC had more applications than they were staffed to deal with. Telling, ain't it?

Response by CH (MAJ) William Beaver made May 2 at 2015 8:39 PM

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Sat, 02 May 2015 20:39:33 -0400

The FUN went away with "Stripes!"

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made May 3 at 2015 1:27 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sun, 03 May 2015 13:27:35 -0400

Several things happened to change the military culture from when I joined in 1969:

1. Instant and pervasive communication media. This has nearly eliminated the opportunity to keep anything secret or at least private. Without some level of "plausible deniability," the commander can't ignore any service member's action. If he or she does, then their boss may discipline them for not taking action against their subordinate. This leads to things like the Soldier getting an Article 15 for taking his fish along on a parachute jump. When the picture was posted on social media, the chain of command had to do something (see 5 below).

2. Deglamorization of alcohol. DOD made a concerted effort to reduce alcohol consumption in the 1980s and early 1990s. The Clubs became smaller, happy hour disappeared or was reduced and they closed earlier. Unit-level bars were either discouraged or prohibited. Prosecution for DWI/DUI became much more serious. Outcome was entire predictable. The Clubs became less profitable and almost disappeared on most Bases. Fewer people went to the Club or other places for a drink after work or on weekends. Effect was overall good for the health of the force, but certainly cut down on drunks doing fun, stupid stuff.

3. Integration of women into the force. Shortly before I jointed, the Services integrated women into their force structures. The Air Force, for example, disbanded the WAFs and female Air Force members were integrated into previously all-male units. More specialties progressively were opened to women. Out of this effort arose additional training on equal treatment, etc., and the realization that many male behaviors were unacceptable in a unit with men and women. The unacceptable behaviors were largely wiped out through training and punishment. Again, good for the services and service members.

4. Political Correctness. The Services have done an excellent job of training all types of discrimination out of their members over the last 40 years. Services have done their best to train out any hint of sexual harassment, racism, or other discrimination. Civil and criminal penalties for any type of discrimination or harassment have become more severe. Minorities have taken advantage of this situation to hold the majority both accountable and in fear. Consequently, a small minority can exert great power over the majority though fear. A charge of discrimination, even if not proven, can adversely effect a career. Language has been greatly effected, for example N-word, F-word, and other slang terms are not as commonly used as they once were. Language itself can be said to sustain a "hostile work environment" leading to commanders losing their jobs and perhaps being prosecuted. This change did away with a plethora of jokes, jabs, pranks, etc., based on minority status.

5. One strike and you're out. Because of the above changes, the Services have increasingly adopted a one strike and you're out approach to management. This is especially true for officers. Any upheld complaint of any type of discrimination or harassment will almost always lead to disciplinary action. For a Senior NCO or Officer this is a career ending event. This allows commanders at all levels very little wiggle room to deal with their subordinates' behaviors that may be close to or over the line. If a young service member steps out of line, the commander will probably know it and have no choice but to take action or be criticized from above.

Response by TSgt Seth Borrell made Jan 5 at 2016 1:28 PM

TSgt Seth Borrell — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:28:15 -0500

It seems to me that the leadership culture being perpetuated now is that of fear. Higher leadership is so scrutinized and politicised that a sever reaction to relativly minor issues is common. ( I dont blame them no one wants to get fired!) As a result it strips the ability of small unit leaders to administer punishment and do damage control and take care of issues at a lower level that could be resolved. It also escaltes problems up the chain so rapidly that junior members who are good troops that make simple youthfull mistakes are penalized brutaly for the rest of thier military career if they are even allowed to stay.

Response by SPC Dale St. Pierre made Jan 5 at 2016 10:10 PM

SPC Dale St. Pierre — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 22:10:33 -0500

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2016 3:38 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 03:38:05 -0500

Because we (our branches of service) are no longer a community/family from top down. We are instead a business or corporation model. Top brass and senior NCOs have a operations understanding gap wider than the Grand Canyon on what the day to day army life is for Joe. They implement policy based on political pressure to ensure their own survival in that pond.

They don't understand one of the best ways to get through to that 18 year old- is causing immediate physical pain (in the form of muscle failure... Not talking about actually beating a the guy) following his incorrect actions. It's called developing a conditioned response. So next time he sets his alarm just that much earlier... And the issue is handled.

Late to formations? Running your mouth off unnecessarily? Disrespect? All these issues can be handled with a good ol smoke session between team or squad leader and the soldier. Nothing needs to be going on paper. The soldier learns without negatively impacting moral or career of the guy like A15 will. Save the A15 and paper for when real issues arises like a SM housing a family of midgets under his barracks bed in indentured servitude.
I will say that the behind the closed door fun and games had to go as everything now ends up online. The stupid shit we do...(everyone reading this knows exactly what I'm talking about). Those dumb antics is one of the biggest team building events a group of soldiers can do... Platoon functions/company functions with grills going and kegs flowing will build more unit pride and synergy than all the "organizational days" ever could.

But we do stupid stuff and it Is an embarrassment to the army in the eyes of the public (we all know it) but "behind closed doors" doesn't work when someone pulls out an iPhone and records ol Joe getting duct taped to a howitzer and the gun raised for his birthday celebrations or that fresh LT being dog piled in the mud by his platoon as a "welcome, sir" event. Then it is time for that to go. sad days.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jan 6 at 2016 6:43 AM

PO3 David Fries — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 06:43:08 -0500

Remove an abundance of alcohol, and my military days would have been very different. Not necessarily more or less fun, but very different.