What guidance or advice would you give to someone being barred and separated for not attending BLC?

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:35:29 -0500

Hello Everyone,
I'm SPC a Specialist one month short of hitting my 4-year mark. As the title indicates, I'm currently looking at being barred for denying to go to BLC. I have expressed to my command in the past the I don't have the desire to get promoted before I get out in March of 2022. They keep telling me they see my potential ( for this, I'm greatful) but I still don't want the responsibility that comes with being an NCO.
This is not the first time a bar has been in discussion; I was looking at one when I denied going to the promotion board once I hit my primary zone. I eventually decided to go because it was virtual and therefore not as nerve-racking. Even when I went to the board, I tactfully expressed that I didn't want to be promoted but, shortly after I got my P status. I thought after passing the board my command would let me be but that wasn't the case.
Roughly 4 months back I got selected to go to BLC, which I denied. They were going to bar me then but couldn't because I was already on a temporary profile because behavioral health was switching my medication. This bought me some time, but now that I'm "in the clear" I guess you can say.
If I'm being honest, I keep denying BLC because I have terrible anxiety and the thought of going makes it worse. I'm good at my job, I don't get in trouble, and I've always been good at PT. The only roadblock I have is this BLC.
I joined the Army for one reason: The GI Bill. I'm afraid that after the second 3-month review of my bar, my command will chapter me and I lose my GI Bill. Again, March 2022 is my ETS date and I really want to serve honorably till then. After all, that's what I signed up for.
Can someone tell me how realistic it is for me to still get honorable if I am, unfortunately, separated a few months early? Also, why does the Army have RCPs if it plans on separating a 2yr Specialist who doesn't go to BLC?
My commander and MSG say I'm forcing their hand because they "don't want to" bar me. I believe them but, I also know there are gray areas for most cases. Can someone give me so guidance and share their knowledge/experiences?
I'd appreciate it.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jan 24 at 2021 3:40 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:40:50 -0500

My advice, go and have a good attitude about it. You can still get out, but imagine if you have a change of heart a month or two before ETS and you didn't go.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2021 3:46 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:46:01 -0500

You dont have a choice, it's stated in regulation. If you deny promotion or NCOPDS you will be barred from continued service. Welcome to up or out.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2021 3:47 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:47:26 -0500

Going to BLC doesn't mean you will get promoted.

Go to the course. It can't work any way but to your benefit.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2021 3:58 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:58:22 -0500

I can't recall the type of discharge for failing to remove a bar. I do want to say it is Honorable but then they only have to initiate the separation. You are quickly becoming an issue due to your failure to adapt to the military. You may not like it but you can't just stay a Specialist. It can be toxic for a unit. We all have to promote or make way for the next guy that wants to promote. You are literally shooting yourself in the foot and then complaining about. I understand you only want the GI Bill. I enlisted for the same. I am not sure what your oath was but did your oath say anything about serving on your own terms? If it didn't you have to comply with the Army. Part of getting your GI Bill is serving honorably. To me your behavior is questionable. You may find yourself on the losing end of this and you would only have yourself to blame.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Jan 24 at 2021 4:05 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 16:05:02 -0500

Why pass up on free education?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2021 4:30 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 16:30:11 -0500

1 - you could be separated for “failure to adapt” which you risk your GI Bill.

2 - some of your BLC experience equates to lower level college credit. Why lose free credits?

I agree with others posting here: go, get it done. You never know, you may change your mind about getting out and this refusal would stop you.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2021 4:35 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 16:35:54 -0500

You sound like you don’t want to go because you are afraid to fail. It is better to try and fail than to not try at all. Go to the course, give it your best effort, and see what happens.

Forgive me, I graduated PLDC in 1998, so I’m sure that it’s changed since then, but it was an immediate height/weight/PT test, then some academic tests, and then some war games in the field and a land nav course at the end. I was always afraid to fail the PT test, but once I passed, I just knocked out the course work as it came and graduated top 10% of my class.

You can do this, you’ll regret not going. If you went and failed, at least you were there. You’ll never know where you stand if you don’t try...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2021 4:49 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 16:49:47 -0500

BLC is not that bad honestly. I mean I don't know what it's like now but I went when it just turned into WLC from PLDC - and it was 30 days. I had to live in the academy barracks despite living in my unit barracks on JBLM. We got Sundays off - 8 hours. That was it.

From what I hear now it's far easier than it was then. And it's been virtual for the last year or most of last year.

Just go to BLC and be done with it. And if you get promoted before you ETS, that's more money you can save before you get out.

I had a soldier who had no intention of staying in past his first enlistment (just last year) but he went to the board. He went to BLC and he got promoted to SGT - and he ETSed last summer. He was a decent soldier but definitely is better off as a civilian.

Just play the Army game until you ETS - it's really that simple.

Response by SFC Kelly Coleman made Jan 24 at 2021 4:58 PM

SFC Kelly Coleman — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 16:58:13 -0500

Go to BLC but monitor your promotion points. You cannot get promoted if you don’t have the points.

Response by 1SG Frank Boynton made Jan 24 at 2021 5:35 PM

1SG Frank Boynton — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 17:35:45 -0500

When I first joined I was assigned to the 6/32 Armored Bn. Ft Carson, Co. An M88 operator retired as a PFC, every time he got promoted to a Sgt he would get himself busted. He was like you, he was damn good. His M88 was the only one in the battalion that was NEVER deadlined. He loved what he did, but leadership wasn’t for him. Unfortunately, a few year after that, the Army created the Up or Out system. I say unfortunately, because some people who are totally awesome at their job, suck at being in charge of people and like you they don’t want to be. My brother-in-law was a welder in the Army. He loved it, but was forced out because he didn’t meet the rank requirement in time. Funny thing is he ended up as a DOD contractor doing the same thing for the Army, only making 5 times more money. If you do your time and do a normal ETS, there is no way they’ll take any guaranteed benefit away. That’s total BS. Lot of people telling you to go to school. I agree. I was a Senior Instructor at the I-Coros NCO Academy, about a year after I came off the trail. Had a few soldiers who were just like you, and didn’t want to be there. They normally flunked during land navigation and the week of training we spent on Ross Hill. But a couple who made it went on to have a very successful career. Just be absolutely sure your willing to make the decision that will absolutely end you military career. Good luck soldier.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2021 6:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 18:41:55 -0500

Don't kid yourself that your command can't bar you because of your mental health profile. Your commander is required to bar Soldiers who show no potential for performance. I don't but that the reason you don't want to go to BLC is that you're afraid you'll get promoted. You have to know that as a 68K you will need to put some work in for the points to get promoted.

BLC isn't voluntary, it's mandatory. If you receive a class seat and fail to show up, you have missed movement. NCOES no shows and failures are reported all the way to your first Commanding General in your chain of command. You'd better believe if your CO has to explain to a General that you refused orders and missed movement, you will receive UCMJ and definitely be separated - regardless of any bar.

Why does the Army have RCPs? Because the Army is bigger than your one problem. The Army has a group of people who are hired to do their job and not be leaders, they're called civilians. The Army wants leaders, that's why there are no more SPC5 - SPC9 ranks any more.

If you refuse an NCOES or fail an NCOES, your commander is required to separate you IAW AR 635-200. Separate, or bar...and then separate. The class is short and easy. Learn how to get over your anxieties or you'll live in fear your whole life.

As for your GI Bill, your commander and the JAG are the determination of the nature of your discharge. Even if you separate normally, you'll owe an IRR commitment that if you fail to maintain, you will be given an OTH discharge and your GI Bill will be revoked.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 25 at 2021 1:10 AM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 01:10:34 -0500

You are already an NCO, Corporal

Response by SFC Kathy Pepper made Jan 25 at 2021 1:12 AM

SFC Kathy Pepper — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 01:12:07 -0500

I think that 1SG Luke Bradshaw and 1SG Robert White have the most accurate answers, due to their position and that they are Active. However, that doesn’t help you as far as attending BLC.

How was Basic Training for you? BLC is pretty much the same, except shorter. How is your new medication working for you? How do you ordinarily handle unfamiliar situations? Do you have someone who can be your emotional support while you are in school? Do you have a doctor or therapist who can teach you relaxation or breathing techniques to help with your anxiety? If not, you might consider going on-line to find some; yoga and meditation websites are places to start. Perhaps your mantra could be "X number of days and a wake-up." I think these are some of the things you should be concentrating on rather than avoiding attendance, since that does not seem feasible.

I agree with SFC Melvin Brandenburg that you should go, perhaps not with a good attitude, but the best that you can muster. I have confidence that you will be fine; if you can handle the Army, you can handle anything that life throws your way. I wish you the very best.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jan 25 at 2021 10:04 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 10:04:12 -0500

This is pretty cut and dry. In the Military you train and get orders to specific locations.

This seems like you are refusing to train because you don't want to go to a school that will make you eligible for promotion. It doesn't mean you will get promoted. It's just a check in the box.

You stomping your foot and saying I refuse to go will do nothing to improve your life, your experience or your ability to eventually receive that honorable discharge we all strive for. You are hyper focused on this being BLC but you need to understand if anyone chose this particular hill to die on they would have the same results. I have never seen someone deny orders and have a positive outcome. If you continue this current path you already know the outcome because your chain of command seems to be pretty transparent about it. I would recommend you attend the training and work closely with your medical provider if you run into any issues.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Jan 25 at 2021 10:47 PM

COL Jeff Williams — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 22:47:19 -0500

A huge part of life is the responsibilities we undertake. It is difficult to avoid responsibility. If you have an issue with anxiety, seek help.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2021 9:05 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 21:05:12 -0500

CPL, my best advice is to go to BLC. It's easier than it's ever been, and it's a check the box type school.

You have nothing to lose by going. Even if you get promoted, it's not the worse thing that could happen.

If you need any guidance or just someone to bounce ideas off, I am happy to listen. Sometimes by changing perspective, it opens you up to other views.

Being an NCO has been one of my most outstanding achievements. I can be the leader that can make a difference as I mentor and help lower enlisted.