What happens if it is found the APFT 2 mile track is not at the appropriate measurement?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 May 2016 13:36:09 -0400

During an APFT, there is no requirement to measure/survey a 2 mile course prior to the APFT. Is there a regulation that would disqualify the entire APFT?

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made May 25 at 2016 1:40 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Wed, 25 May 2016 13:40:48 -0400

I would be curious if you get a solid answer. Several years ago, I had a platoon sergeant who routinely had us run our APFT about 200 meters longer than an actual 2 mile.

Response by SGT David T. made May 25 at 2016 1:42 PM

SGT David T. — Wed, 25 May 2016 13:42:56 -0400

You are measured on running 2 miles, no more no less. If the track is not two miles then the integrity of the entire test is in question. I am not sure the regulations specifically state it has to be measured. One would think that it's an implied task, otherwise you don't know how far you are running.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2016 1:52 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 May 2016 13:52:23 -0400

FM 21-20 states that the test site should be "a flat, 2-mile running course with a solid surface and no more than a three-percent grade. (Commanders must use good judgement; no one is expected to survey terrain.)" and TC 3-22-20, A-16 states there is no requirement to survey the course.
"The APFT must be administered properly and to standard in order to accurately evaluate a soldier's physical fitness and to be fair to all soldiers." FM 21-20
If there is a significant difference in run/walk times, I suggest you bring it up to your chain of command and request that the course route be measured. The commander should want to be fair to everyone and ensure standards are being met. The commander could throw out the tests if there is cause/you can prove there is something wrong with the course.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2016 1:55 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 May 2016 13:55:12 -0400

While in Afghanistan (KAF) we did the 2 mile run/2.5 mile walk on a section of road that was dirt/sand with huge potholes, gravel, rocks, and was not level. Whoever was in charge of briefing the turn-around point didn't do such a great job. The person manning the turn-around point for the 2.5 mile walk used the wrong distance marker that was 1/8 mile past the 1/4 mile marker, so we ended up doing a 2.75 mile walk. I came in with 15 seconds to spare, whereas I usually come in with about 4 minutes to spare.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2016 2:03 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 May 2016 14:03:43 -0400

As long as it is measured, and usually they are constructed to industry standard, it is good. I usually use GPS and a measuring wheel to check. If you wanted to dispute the measurement, I would recommend the HHC/D command team be brought in for arbitration. They would probably make the determination that, as long as it is reasonably close, it is good. That is what command authority gives them. I don't think folks use pace count to check any more. Lol. Most NCOs will validate before the event.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made May 25 at 2016 2:03 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 25 May 2016 14:03:44 -0400

To clarify, you are saying that you are in a non standard tack and you do not believe it was measured?

Response by MSG Pat Colby made May 25 at 2016 2:10 PM

MSG Pat Colby — Wed, 25 May 2016 14:10:31 -0400

Good Lord I'm having flashbacks. We had a running route ( city Blocks/streets) laid out near our Unit Building for the conduct of an APFT. No less than 5 different people/Units all Wheeled it out on foot and came to different spots. Some used the middle of the street, some used the furthest from the corners, and others used the shortest distance around the corners. Some just staggered or Methed their way all over the road. Of course each of them used spray paint to mark their Start and Finish lines AND The 1/2, 1, and 1.5 mile marks. This happened EVERY FUCKING YEAR ON THE SAME FUCKING ROUTE! One year along came some Staff Puke Officer who measured it with the odometer of his car and tried to spray paint over ALL lines everyone else marked off on the entire route. Toss in the 2.5 mile route and you now have an Official Cluster-Fuck.

And people wondered why I drank as the Training NCO. Good luck on this one, Buddy. I'm going to mix a drink and toast my beloved DD 214 that shields me from this nonsense!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2016 3:12 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 May 2016 15:12:48 -0400

There is no deviation allowed. If it is not a 2 mile course, the test is invalid. Running 2.1 miles is just as invalid as running 1.9 miles.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2016 3:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 May 2016 15:25:05 -0400

What happens depends on what your Commander decides as the appropriate COA.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2016 4:16 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 May 2016 16:16:00 -0400

I don't know about a regulation on this one but three years ago at AT (I'm a Reservist) our two mile run track was measured inaccurately- on the short side. I heard estimates ranging from it being off by four hundredths of a mile to a quarter mile.
The commander decided that it would be wrong to punish the soldiers for this error and ordered the whole APFT to count. My time improved to 13:32 that time.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made May 25 at 2016 5:08 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Wed, 25 May 2016 17:08:35 -0400

Honestly, I don't think so. I believe as long as it's within a certain deviation range it's acceptable. I know some trails are slightly longer while some are shorter, but it always counts as the same trail. You'd probably be best talking to the people who actually monitor your APFT because their the ones who run the scores.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 25 at 2016 6:08 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 25 May 2016 18:08:40 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member "there is no requirement to measure/survey a 2 mile course prior to the APFT"

I think you will find FM 7-22 does not support your opinion, and in fact, the OIC and the NCOIC are directed to provide a flat, measured 2-mile running course with a solid surface that is not more than 3 percent grade.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 25 at 2016 6:13 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 25 May 2016 18:13:32 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member "What happens if it is found the APFT 2 mile track is not at the appropriate measurement?"
1:Confirm your position, have a an unbiased peer confirm your belief.
2:Inform the commander of your findings.
3:Provide a recommendation and solution.
If you're unwilling or unable to do all three, especially #3 pick a different battle, and take a good look inward and ask yourself if "no one is more professional then I" is applicable.

Response by MGySgt James Forward made May 25 at 2016 6:14 PM

MGySgt James Forward — Wed, 25 May 2016 18:14:43 -0400

That don't make much sense to me unless the course has "already" been marked and measured before. But on the other hand if you have a new course laid out, it must be paced for accuracy with a wheel. But you only gotta DO IT ONE TIME. We has an Infantry MSgt down at Camp Lejuene, NC who did not like the course we always used so he checked out the wheel and paced off the 1 1/2 mile turnaround and back to the starting point. Noe at this time I was a MSgt myself and I did not run that fast, generally it came in around 22:00-22:30 plus or minus 15 seconds. Big day comes and we run the course for score. Maj Stokes the G-3 training Officer was really impressed by his run time of 17:30 and proceeded to walk his score over to the training clerk to be recorded. My time was 19:30 and my CWO4's was the the same...okay Batman riddle me this "How the hell did we just knock three minutes off our run time?" We ask ourselves. Something don't smell right in Denmark. Talk to the MSgt who marked out the course and he said he used the one in the gear closet with the "Red X" on it. Informed the MSgt that that one was pending disposal as it was broken and only registered .8 mile per mile so he he used that one we only ran 2.4 mile. Invalid course! Scratched all my Marines scores and we re-ran it a few days later on our old course. Make that one pissed off Infantry Major and MSgt. Integrity is everything. Semper Fi.

Response by SGM Robin Johnson made May 25 at 2016 8:28 PM

SGM Robin Johnson — Wed, 25 May 2016 20:28:09 -0400

FM 7-22 states in Appendix A para A16 and A33 that the two-mile course will be measured. If it is not a TWO MILE course, it is not a valid test. The way to measure the course is to use the wheel (usually maintained at the fitness facility) to measure the inside lane (or straight line if it is a roadway). If it is a course constructed to specific measurements (half-mile track) that can be avoided. As stated in the regulation, if it is a 400-meter track you must measure and add the additional 61 feet 4 inches to make it two miles. Each unit commander can determine that the measurement is accurate according to their findings, however, if there is a single course being used with many disparate markings the installation will often have the expert at MWR or the fitness facility mark a course and erect permanent markings at each quarter or half mile point.
The reference in para A16 to it not being necessary to survey the course means that no one needs to walk or run the entire course ahead of the run (surveying the course) assuring a previously measured course that has been determined to be relatively level and of a slope no greater than 3% (in other words, meeting the specifications) is OK that particular day. So in practical terms, you don't need to send anyone out to kick the rocks off the course before you send runners, although many units do this just to make sure there are no surprises if they can't see the entirety of the course.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2016 1:10 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 May 2016 13:10:43 -0400

Sorry, wrong comment box.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2016 5:37 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 May 2016 17:37:01 -0400

How far off are you talking about? A few feet or even a few yards is only a second or two at the finish were almost every one I know takes it to the end in a full on sprint. If a soldier is pushing it that close, then they need to work on their run.

I find it somewhat amusing that we are talking about small measurements for the run distance while folks are counting push-ups with butts lifting off the mat or extending the leg angle past 90 degrees. Or those push-ups near the end of time that are not even close to maintaining a "generally straight line".

Response by 1LT Michael Jay made May 26 at 2016 7:01 PM

1LT Michael Jay — Thu, 26 May 2016 19:01:35 -0400

Wow...really! If the person to the left and right passed the r7n on the same track. Then look inside yourself. I see alot of comments regarding what FM, 3% incline, flat surface and if should be measure everytime. Respectfully! Everyone that has been in the Military over ten year has conducted a 2 mile run on inclines soft, hard .. etc. We passed because we wanted to...needed to. Most importantly the person to our side passed.

Response by SPC James Anderson made May 27 at 2016 5:55 PM

SPC James Anderson — Fri, 27 May 2016 17:55:48 -0400

Ran an APFT while in the guard. The course was very hilly and went right by a flooded pond. You could either run deeper into the water or down a large ditch, or you could stay on the track and run through 100 yds of 3 to 6in deep water. Amazingly everyone dropped a couple of minutes yet no one seemed to care about how it would impact soldiers records or promotion points.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2016 9:12 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 May 2016 21:12:54 -0400

My former unit took PT test at Hastings, Nebraska NG training center and we had about the same story. Some of us finished PT test "suspiciously" too early than expected and right after we stopped someone yelled us (those of us who supposedly finished the run) to keep running one more lap because someone forgot to tell NCOIC for the 2 mile run that it was supposed to be 4 laps and not 3.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2016 12:49 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 May 2016 00:49:22 -0400

I'm surprised this would even happen. We wheel measure APFT courses all the time. We also contacted diagnostic APFT to ensure soldier knew where they stood against the standards and regulation. Coach them how to improve. Something is wrong in the unit if you are just showing up to a previously marked track with out verifying it. I've seen tracks with multiple marking for quarter miles and half miles. The track should also be marked for the 2.5 miles if there are profiled walkers taking the alternate APFT.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made May 30 at 2016 4:56 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Mon, 30 May 2016 04:56:31 -0400

Everyone gets better times.