What happens if the NCOER that led to my being QMP'd gets removed from my record? Do I return to service?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 22:59:15 -0500

Over 13 months since I was forced to ETS with a RE-4 code and I was indef, What happens when they kick that ncoer out? Do I return to service? Do my indef contract mean anything? The rater, sr rater and the correct by the regulation sr rater all wrote support statements saying the sr rater only saw me at best once every other month and the rating was too harsh, Why di I feel like I failed?

Response by SPC Robert Coventry made Nov 30 at 2017 11:25 PM

SPC Robert Coventry — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:25:04 -0500

Sorry to Hear

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2017 12:15 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 00:15:23 -0500

No. You will not be automatically reinstated. The RE code of 4 means that your service is done permanently. No waivers authorized. If you were unable to be retained at the time of the retention board, you have no chances. I will be very interested in finding out if indeed the NCOER gets pulled from the record now that you are out of the service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2017 1:47 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 01:47:54 -0500

Have you appealed that particular NCOER?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2017 5:34 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 05:34:18 -0500

If it is removed can you apply to get your RE code changed and reenlist?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2017 6:59 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 06:59:23 -0500

I know the Pentagon/ARBA take a long time to process the file, Mine havent been seen by the board yet, So if it is removed I don't know my next step but I can send a copy to the qmp to have my service reinstated as for the re code change I think it goes through the same steps

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2017 8:40 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:40:48 -0500

Too bad they couldn’t change your code easy so you could hang out in the reserves until the rest gets decided.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2017 11:38 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:38:36 -0500

Even if the NCOER itself was overturned, the underlying reason for a substandard NCOER and the finding by the QMP Board would remain in effect.

For example, let's say you get charged with a DUI and get Relieved for Cause because of it. QMP triggers a year or so later due to the RFC.
But maybe you get acquitted on the charge in civilian court.
In that case, the NCOER itself would have to be appealed, as would the finding. However, the SUBSTANCE of the case would still matter. Maybe you really were out drinking and you got the charges thrown out due to a bad sobriety test or disallowed breathalyzer. You might be not guilty, but your conduct could still be called into question and the QMP results still could stand.

What you would need to do is file a substantive appeal to the QMP Board, if that option remains open to you this many years later. You will need to have you evidence together. Statements on your behalf from the rating chain will help but not be the game changer. You will need additional evidence, especially if you are going to go for back pay as you note below.
Good luck.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 1 at 2017 12:41 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:41:24 -0500

One thing that's being missed is how the ARBA, Navy BCNR, etc. function, what they can and cannot do, and why. In general, they have the authority to step in and address "egregious error". So that's a pretty high threshold in which most don't pass muster. I've been around a number of cases. If the personnel management policies and processes were followed, where's the egregious error? These boards don't deal with subjective. I'm personally familiar with evals which were appealed, the reporting senior corrected them, and then the SM was still not promoted, was discharged, etc. The Board does take a look at whether or not the "after" (presuming egregious error) record would result in the same outcome, but go there only if it's a slam dunk.
There is also a large misconception of what NOCERs, FITREPS, Evals, etc. are for. Most think it's a report about you. That's half true. The aspect that's missed is the report is also about doing something to you. Good leadership figures out what 1/3rd they want to push forward, the 1/3rd they don't want to harm this cycle, and the 1/3rd that get harmed but creates the room for the upper 2/3rds. So reports are written/edited to meet the result desired. Reporting seniors only have so many silver bullets, hence have to impose a spread. In my commands, I made sure we "stacked/packed" everyone with input from the CoC, SEL, senior NCOs, etc. Writers/reviewers knew what target they were writing to. Then when it came time for the sit down with the SM, I insisted they are told what 1/3rd they're in, why, and what handful of things make the difference. No confusion. Yes some hated it, but I always had the highest promotion rate of my people going to boards.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2018 9:49 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 21:49:43 -0500

You didn't fail. He failed as a leader