What happens if there is an APFT failure just before OER/NCOER cut off date?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 08:41:59 -0500

I was thinking about a scenario today...

I've seen many soldiers fail the APFT, retake it and pass in 30 days, and it's like it never happened. But what happens if your OER/NCOER cut off date is, say, a week after the APFT? That soldier will have no time to retake, so does that mean they are stuck with a failure on their eval?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2014 8:55 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 08:55:49 -0500

Regardless of when it was if an NCO or officer has an APFT failure it should be annotated on their evaluation. So the boards can see the real picture of the SM.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2014 9:26 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:26:29 -0500

I think I get what you are saying. There is somewhat of a fairness issue. One person has no record of the failure, the other has it front and center on their NCOER/OER because of timing. Bottom line: you are in charge of your own career. Make sure that you have your APFT offset from your NCOER/OER cutoff by 45-60 days and you will never encounter this situation. I'm saying this from having screwed this up. My most recent OER, I ended up taking my APFT just before the cutoff. That morning it was pouring rain and cold. The test was cancelled. Some intrepid NCOs showed to test me and two MAJs in my same boat. I was miserable and terrified the whole time (hands trying to slip on push-ups, almost slipping apart on sit-ups), but I had to go through with it because I backed myself into a corner.

On the flip side, I 1,000,000% disagree that a Soldier should ever be flagged/punished/whatever if they do not pass an APFT while their previous APFT is still valid. The only time a Soldier should be forced to take an APFT for record is when there is not a valid score. This would encourage people not to wait until the last minute to knock out this requirement. The whole game of calling an APFT "diagnostic" or "record" ahead of time and then telling people they have to suck it up is just juvenile. I'm saying you cannot call an APFT "diagnostic" if you don't have a valid score. If you have a currently valid score, you are free to decide if you want the score for record or not. Keep in mind that this affects strugglers as badly as top achievers. The standard is passing score within the prescribe time frame (different between active and reserve). The rest is game-ology. I flat out disagree that unnecessarily posting a poor score for a Soldier is a " real picture of the SM" - actually it is literally the opposite.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Nov 23 at 2014 9:24 AM

SGT Richard H. — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:24:09 -0500

considering that APFT is one of the most basic requirements for a soldier, I think for an NCO or Officer to fail the APFT, it should probably go on record. There's something to be said for "You can't expect from others what you can't do yourself". This is, of course, barring any (legitimate) mitigating circumstances.

Personally, I think if I were in that position, I would be speaking with my CO ASAP (as in that day) to express my embarrassment and my desire to retake it within the next couple of days.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2014 11:31 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:31:03 -0500

If that is how the timeline lined up then it needs to be included in the NCOER/OER. My personal thought is the APFT is the most basic of physical fitness tests. Every single soldier should be able to pass with a 60% in their age group, in every event, at any given time...period. Unless there is something that gives they a permanent profile and they can't conduct the PT test. If said soldier, enlisted and officer alike, fail to meet the standard then it needs to be annotated.

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Nov 23 at 2014 11:45 AM

LTC Paul Heinlein — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:45:36 -0500

If for some reason the rating period ended, you would have no choice to use the last official APFT data.

Hopefully, it would not come to the last day where it left no option.

If there was time in the rating period, I would always allow a re-test until there was not time left or the Soldier just did not want to try anymore.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2014 1:27 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:27:58 -0500

Sir,

That would be a bad day for anyone I rated. NCOs and Officers are aware that need to pass APFTs. There is no excuse and it will reflect on their reports. Yes their report should state they have failed and that they need some type of improvement.

V/r

1SG Haro

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2014 4:05 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:05:21 -0500

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member yes they are stuck with it provided that they do not retake it before the end of their rating period. That is why I always try to take my test at least 30 days prior to the end of my OER if not more to ensure that I have a passing one. We all have a bad day. I got injured during an APFT during school and I quickly retook it in order to avoid having to take it only 2 days before the end of my course. It hurt but I wanted to get it done.

Response by TSgt Kristin Parsons made Nov 23 at 2014 6:49 PM

TSgt Kristin Parsons — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:49:26 -0500

I understand what you are saying. In the AF, we are moving to EPR cutoffs by rank starting with E-6 this month. If you have failed an official PT test, it will show up on your EPR even if you retake it within 30 days and pass (unless you know the person giving the test, then maybe you can have the failure erased). It seems like it's all about the good 'ol boy system.

Response by 1SG Mark Colomb made Nov 24 at 2014 12:18 PM

1SG Mark Colomb — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 12:18:08 -0500

I spent 26 years in, retired at the ripe old age of 44. Never failed an APFT, took some in just down right terrible circumstances (rain, sleet, snow, cold, hot, humid) and a couple of time not in the best of health. Bottom line is every leader needs to be able to pass (not max perhaps, but pass) the APFT at the drop of a hat. If one trains to the least acceptable standard in the best of conditions, one has no one to blame but themselves should they be caught in such a situation. No issue of fairness at play. A leader sets the example.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2014 1:47 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:47:46 -0500

I try to take my APFT at least 30-90 days before the thru date to give me some cushion just in case. For example, my next eval is not due until February-March, but I took my APFT this morning

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 8:05 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 08:05:23 -0400

Sir,

[DELETED by Member]

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 18 at 2015 9:30 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 09:30:38 -0400

Happened to an Army major I rated. Had to record the fail on his otherwise excellent OER. Not selected for LTC. He retired as O-4. Self inflicted wound.

At the time PT test and weight weren't a factor on USAF and USMC OER/FITREP I wrote.