What happens if you quit airborne school as an officer or refuse to go?

2018-02-14T08:03:49-05:00

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2018 8:07 AM

2018-02-14T08:07:13-05:00

Something bad probably

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Feb 14 at 2018 8:09 AM

2018-02-14T08:09:26-05:00

Well, the impact depends on whether or not it's specifically tied to a career-enhancing assignment. It's never a good thing to refuse it, but circumstances can make it a fatal decision.

Let's look at the best case. If you're in a branch that doesn't have many slots within an Airborne unit (like a Chaplain, or a Physician, or a Dietitian, etc.), refusing a slot or dropping out of the school will only have a short-term impact on your reputation. If you fail out between schools, that can fly below the radar screen for the long-term implications on your career potential.

Let's look at the worst case. If you're in a branch with lots of Airborne slots, specifically if you are targeted to step into an Airborne slot, and you fail out or refuse to attend, THAT can be fatal. You can miss out on choice, career-enhancing assignments, you can receive poor OERs, etc. That most certainly will come back to haunt you on promotion boards.

So, it's not a clear-cut answer, but I would never recommend anyone turn down that opportunity. And, once in it, failure is not an option.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2018 8:12 AM

2018-02-14T08:12:56-05:00

Nothing good. They're certainly not someone I want next to me in a foxhole.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2018 9:04 AM

2018-02-14T09:04:53-05:00

SPC Norman-I've been following your posts of late, and largely staying "out" of the discussions since Army personnel would be the best to advise on questions concerning Army career topics. That said, I also deduce you're ultimate goal is pursuing a commission, and you are looking at all angles, positive and negative. In that sense, I may be able to share some insight into this question, and hope my Army peers will tolerate my interjection.

I'll share my "story", and hope it helps you with a number of considerations. Please forgive the long winded-ness.

First off, it is generally known that "quitting" any form of training, especially voluntary training, is basically career suicide. Sure, there is a process; no one's going to take you out back and give you a blindfold and a cigarette...but sooner or later, the decision will come back on your career. In some cases, the results may be immediate; in others, you may languish for years until a critical career milestone is denied, and you find yourself on the outs.

In 2000, I was accepted into training as a naval flight officer (the guy in the back). This came after four years of difficult work to receive my commission, during which time, I had upheld a satisfactory record, stayed out of trouble, and generally "hit the wickets". This training had four parts; API, Primary, Intermediate and Advanced. I made it through the initial "weed out" at API (intensive classroom, simulator and water survival courses), and graduated from Primary (flight syllabus including basic airmanship, navigation and systems). During this time, I worked hard, stayed out of trouble on and off base, and even received high marks. At the end of Primary, and before commencing Intermediate, I chose to "DOR" or Drop on Request. My reasons were simple: I was having great difficulty doing the mathematics involved with navigating from the "back seat", and falling behind the aircraft, fast. After speaking at length with my immediate superior officers, CO and the command career counselling people. I was "assured" that the decision would not negatively impact me, and that I would be soon transferred to the Surface Warfare pipeline (where I ultimately wanted to go).

Instead, I was first assigned to an accident investigation team; this literally meant I would participate in a crash investigation involving two officers I knew personally. I came in contact with reports and evidence describing the horrific circumstances of their demise, flew simulations of the incident, and assisted the board in determination of fault. Despite long hours, challenging work and the difficulty of confronting the implications...my immediate superior gave me such a bad FITREP, his senior rejected it and performed his own, more favorable one. After 9/11, I sought out and volunteered for immediate deployment, both to "do my bit", and hopefully erase the blot on my record. Two sea tours, multiple qualifications (CICWO, OOD, HCO, TAO(u/i), FPO, etc), stellar FITREPS, and even a Navy Comm. later, I was still selected for the IRAD (force reduction) against my will, and without even so much as an interview. My CO and even the One-Star fought it...but it was done.

A little less than two years later, with the assistance of my new Reserve COC, I managed to volunteer for mobilization as a foreign military advisor to the ANA. This was 24 month orders, including training at Fort Dix, then with the 1ID at Fort Riley, before being assigned down-range to an ANA ETT unit in East Afghanistan for 12 months. During my tour, I was the S-3 for the unit, planned and led armed convoys, took enemy fire, and left with an MSM and promotion to O-4. More importantly, I felt I returned with my honor restored.

However, when I returned, no realistic path for staying active was offered. I had an "inside" senior working with MILPERS to solve the problem (O-6) who finally advised me that quitting flight school all those years before simply made getting "back on track" impossible. To make matters worse, I couldn't land a permanent billet within the SELRES...so I was sent back to the IRR. Within another year, I was offered an Honorable Discharge.

Now, I work as a salesman, sit in a cubicle, and though the "new life" has its rewards (a family, home and success in a second career)...there are days when I truly "miss" no longer being a serving officer.

I've not shared this as a "sob story", and yes...a lot has changed in two decades, and the Army undoubtedly has different policies. What I do want to convey is one salient point: If you engage upon this path...give it everything you have, right up to the last. I miss my military career, but honestly cannot fault the Navy for its decision. As CPT Goenner accurately stated, the service, your peers and your men MUST have confidence in you. It doesn't matter if you're "100%" 364 days out of the year if you're not present the one time it matters in combat. Whether you go into a line branch, Medical, Legal, Supply, etc...much is, and should be expected of an officer.

I wish you nothing but success and a rewarding future career, whichever path you ultimately select.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2018 9:32 AM

2018-02-14T09:32:42-05:00

You don't get your wings.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2018 9:40 AM

2018-02-14T09:40:20-05:00

SPC Benjamin Norman you are the worst kind of leg, unless you are about to jump and refuse then that is even worse.

Basically refusing to go to school is not a huge deal if you are not in a non-airborne unit. The slots are hard to get so it is not the best career move to decline if you want an edge over others at some point. If you go and quit that hurts you more as it is in your records of failure or dropping a school. That can bite you in the end if you ever want to go to the course in the future. If you declined and PCS to another unit that does not follow you, but if you fail it does. It never looks good to fail or quit a school.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2018 9:45 AM

2018-02-14T09:45:29-05:00

If you refuse to go, you miss an opportunity to better your OER. If you take a spot and quit, it Will be noted on your training history. More importantly though, you fail the soldier who would've gone and passed in your place.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 14 at 2018 9:49 AM

2018-02-14T09:49:19-05:00

Nothing much, except your career will be limited, because you have displayed a possible lack of spirit/willingness to face challenges.

Response by LTC Robin Gronovius made Feb 14 at 2018 9:55 AM

2018-02-14T09:55:13-05:00

You aren't going to be assigned to go to an airborne unit unless you've already gone to airborne school or want to go TDY enroute. Your branch manager will discuss available assignments and if you show interest in going to an airborne assignment, they'll offer available school dates. If you are not interested, then they won't offer.
Quitting once there, or worse yet failing out will not be career enhancing. You have just used up an airborne school slot that cost money and can't be regained or given to someone else. It is resources and opportunity lost to the Army. And now your branch manager has to change your follow on assignment because that assignment probably required airborne qualification.
I went to airborne school with a follow on assignment at the tank battalion at the 82nd ABN. But after attending airborne school before my advance course, the battalion was slated for deactivation. Without the need for airborne tankers at Bragg, my orders were changed and I was reassigned to 1st Cav.

Response by SSG Eddye Royal made Feb 14 at 2018 11:01 AM

2018-02-14T11:01:51-05:00

SPC Benjamin Norman, I wiould have to do soul searching, because I you need to find out what is your Long term goal, as an Officer you will be on Call 24/7, not just PT work then time off if your chain let you off if your unit NOT fielding.

Your going to be farmed out to other teams, within the Battalion or Bragade once that course of many courses is completed. What is your mental drive like; do you consider yourself a top performer within your team, platoon or organization. You didn’t give the us and the senor leadership enough information on your background. I was the TRAINING NCOIC for HHB 1-5 FA, and if a young came in with this question, I would pick up the phone and have your platoon SGT come to office for a meeting , after speaking both 1SG and Btry or Company Cmdr.

We would explain to him that you are waivering and with that, what is his/her thoughts, and is there someone else; should we keep the packet on hold then revisit this later. If you didn’t understand our reasoning, he could schedule a time, so it would not look bad, on the Battery, Battalion, Base.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Feb 14 at 2018 11:39 AM

2018-02-14T11:39:13-05:00

Should have never went if you didn't have it in you to complete it. Refusing to go is becoming typical just like all the naysayers about Air Assault School. The only time I see it an issue is in green tab positions at the 82nd for Airborne and the 101st for AASLT. Green tabs typically get removed from leadership positions when they cannot execute and lead by example.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Feb 14 at 2018 12:00 PM

2018-02-14T12:00:53-05:00

In today's Army probably nothing. His command will thank him for at least trying but understand its not for everyone. He'll probably make the next promotion list and be your commander one day.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Feb 14 at 2018 8:44 PM

2018-02-14T20:44:19-05:00

Once there why would you quit? It's voluntary. Why would they force you to volunteer there's plenty of non Airborne units. Outside of the 82nd and SF does any other unit require you to be jump certified? Volunteer for Tanks or Stryker Brigade, there's plenty of options,

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 6:10 AM

2018-02-15T06:10:44-05:00

Lets just say it won't look very good. However the Army needs legs too.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2018 11:14 AM

2018-02-19T11:14:17-05:00

All the way!

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 22 at 2018 12:38 PM

2018-02-22T12:38:40-05:00

In the 82nd all senior NCO's E6 and up and unit commanders must not only be jump qualified, but must take and pass the Jumpmaster course. Failure for officers to graduate results in them losing their command slot in the 82nd- and I have seen LTC's outbound for not graduating in my career.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2018 11:29 AM

2018-02-25T11:29:30-05:00

Nothing that matters. It’s voluntary. If you don’t want to go then don’t go. It’s not for everyone. People may want to make you feel bad about it but screw them! It’s your life and if you’re not a fit for airborne don’t force it. It’s better then freezing up and becoming a hazard in the aircraft or the air. But really, you have to ask yourself why do I not want to do it and live with that. Good luck- for whoever your asking.

Response by CPT Enrique M. made Feb 28 at 2018 12:27 PM

2018-02-28T12:27:08-05:00

I think personally its a bad example to your soldiers and to the rest of your colleagues and leadership. Being a volunteer gets you great marks in your OER and you become also a go to officer. Now on the flip side if you decline a volunteer position just think about it this way, the likeliness of someone asking your to volunteer down the line will be none. And then word of mouth comes out that you are one of "those that doesn't volunteer". And pretty much you are kinda black listed. As far as quitting. Same scenario. You are setting a bad example. Its preferably to show 100% and fail than quitting. Just doesn't look good. If I am giving the opportunity to do airborne school I would take it in a jiffy even though I am concerned about my right knee ( had meniscus surgery back in the day) but hell I would still do it and prep for it.

At the end of the day, as most have said , quitting is not an option and not volunteering is also not a good thing being an officer.