What happens when you encounter - "per policy or regulation" but no policy or regulation exists?

2017-03-14T11:05:56-04:00

Response by SFC George Smith made Mar 14 at 2017 11:07 AM

2017-03-14T11:07:10-04:00

You need to be more specific... as to what you are encountering...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2017 11:35 AM

2017-03-14T11:35:36-04:00

Every time there is a policy or regulation put in place, so many people have their hands in the mix it's incredible. Even the SJA will have their hands in the making of policy/regulation creation. If a policy and/or regulation was created without the consultation of the SJA and higher, then someone is going to be in a little bit of hurt.

But to answer your question, if I was ever faced with this, I would run the RFI up through my CoC for verification/validation.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2017 12:39 PM

2017-03-14T12:39:37-04:00

Ask for the policy or reg reference
Ask SME's for the related topic for the reference
Check here and maybe email for help - http://armypubs.army.mil/
Check here and maybe email for help- http://www.dod.mil/pubs/
Ask Rallypoint about the particular situation

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Response by GySgt Michael Chapman made Mar 14 at 2017 1:00 PM

2017-03-14T13:00:14-04:00

It's been a little while, so I forget the Marine Corps "Catch all" regulation, but often this is what someone will use to provide their point of view on the "Good order and discipline of the service". In other words, unless it is something specifically addressed in a regulation, senior leadership can use this catch all if they believe something falls outside of the realm of good order and discipline.
Additionally, there are Army or Marine Policies and regulations and there are unit policies and regulations. A Commanding Officer is given quite a bit of leeway in determining command policies and regulations that may not exist at the service level. Be sure to look into local or command policies and regulations before determining that a policy or regulation does not exist. (That's a lot of "policy and regulation" in one post).
Finally, as SFC Smith said; specifics regarding what it is you are running up against or into, would help us to point you in the right direction.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Mar 14 at 2017 1:49 PM

2017-03-14T13:49:48-04:00

There're a lot of per this and per that out there. Usually you'll see it in the higher echelon putting something out with the locals responsible for implementation given their specific base characteristics. The Catch-22 is frequently there isn't a local anything so armchair lawyer wannabes try to gig you over it. The IGs that haunt everyone about every 3 years have a checklist on the pile of instructions the local command is supposed to have. I've never been in a command that had fewer than 3 gotchas in that area. I don't expect any sea state change any time soon.

Response by SGT Robert Kromminga made Mar 14 at 2017 2:04 PM

2017-03-14T14:04:58-04:00

This happened over 5 years ago and I know the regulation has changed since, APFT - I failed an APFT (missed the run) and was informed by the AO that I would take another one for record in July after Annual training, I asked if I could take one before Annual training instead, was told yes and if I passed would not have to worry about the one in July. So I had a E-5 and an E-6 assist me with taking the test, the E-5 was to timer since he was on profile for his knee that was injured in country, the E-6 scored it and even ran with me on the run. I passed. Filled out the paperwork and submitted it, then the S1 OIC said the test was no good because the regulation says that a person on profile can no administer an APFT. I asked for a copy, never got one. Pulled a copy and read the regulation myself and did not see it, asked the S1 OIC if they could show me where it was because I didn't see it. Was told it was a Battalion policy that a person who has not passed their APFT can not administer one, asked for a copy but never got one. This went back and forth for a few months then in July when I took to APFT again with the new Battalion commander, he asked why I was taking it again since he was aware that I took it just a few weeks before. I informed him of what I was told. Then a few weeks later a battalion policy was signed and published with a back date of 6 months.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 14 at 2017 3:24 PM

2017-03-14T15:24:59-04:00

The onus is on the person citing "per policy or regulation " to provide it, cant provide it, it does not exist nor will it be considered.
and that works both ways>

"SGT you need to submit an original ink signed copies, per regulation photo copies are not allowed"

Sir, what regulation is that?

"Sir, here is my form, yes I know its a copy, AR-123 says clear readable copies are allowed, no ink signature required"

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 15 at 2017 12:06 AM

2017-03-15T00:06:21-04:00

Tell me more... SGT Robert Kromminga

Response by COL Ardis Ferguson made Apr 22 at 2018 6:28 PM

2018-04-22T18:28:56-04:00

I was gigged on a technical inspection because I wasn’t holding a wrench like a picture showed when the para stated hold the wrench in a way that ensures positive control through it’s use. I did a DA 2028 requesting clarification. A change page came out clearly starting that pictures in the technical manual were not the definitive guidance.