What if college conflicts with annual traning?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:19:32 -0500

In a few days, my unit (or 25% of my unit) are going to conduct annual training for three weeks. Being in school, obviously this interferes with my education. While I was trying to get out of it, this being my last semester and whatnot, they told me "him going to AT is contingent to being transferred". So I'm wanting opinions on what you think about this situation. I'll elaborate below.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2017 6:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:22:57 -0500

Your in the army you do as you are told. You can ask your COC but they can say no your going anyway.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Mar 7 at 2017 6:22 PM

Capt Brandon Charters — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:22:57 -0500

CPT Laurie H. How did you navigate this with NEU?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2017 6:32 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:32:58 -0500

So continuing with this, I'm being transferred in hopes of a promotion, which explains the quote a bit. As far as the 25% bit, obviously that's not exact but I'd argue more than half of the unit isn't going to this training for whatever reason (opted to go to PT camp if they fail HT/WT or APFT, BLC or ALC, college, etc.). And while I know that most people will say something along the lines of "You signed up for it so suck it up", it's kinda unfair that I have to miss and potentially fail classes because of this while in the past we've had soldiers get out of AT or drill because of bodybuilding competitions, housing issues, things like that. At one point one of my SSG was even told not to go to ALC and LIMA 6 because our commander told her that her civilian education was more important. She's now facing demotion because in the eyes of the Army she isn't progressing her career. Talking to soldiers, many of them had to drop out of classes this semester because of this training, and again for me, this is my last semester for my degree.

Also, before anyone says it, I've already mentioned with my leadership about bringing a laptop or my books and they all but said "No". Pretty sure their wording was close to "You won't have any downtime so you won't be able to do any studying". Plus most of my classes are lecture classes and our exams deal more about what we learn in lecture than in books, so even if I do study the books I could still fail the exam. I have contemplated going to IG and/or the Chaplain with this, but with it being so close I don't think they can do anything or if I have a good enough argument for them to work with. Again, the whole "You signed up for it" shtick.

This is why I'm mainly wanting opinions. As a leader, or as a lower enlisted, have you ever had to deal with something like this? And for officers, what do you make of this situation? If need be, I'll elaborate a bit more. Thanks for any response that you give.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2017 6:42 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:42:49 -0500

SGT Private RallyPoint Member Mission comes first. In my civilian career, I had to drop four masters degree courses because mission requirements came first.

Response by SGM Billy Herrington made Mar 7 at 2017 9:33 PM

SGM Billy Herrington — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 21:33:13 -0500

My 2 cents from dealing with this in the past.

You should have asked your commander months ago. Stated your situation that it's your last semester and I'm quite certain he/she would have been able to arrange an alternate AT date for you. Contrary to popular belief it isn't an easy thing to do. AT must be performed at a training location, your home station armory is not that, so they would need to coordinate you doing AT with another unit.

Also, professors are very understanding. If not your VA rep can help. I did many AT's with homework late at night in the TOC after my 1SG brought me in from the field or the range. One reason why I preferred online classes. I did have some resident and some classes that required a log in X times a week. I coordinated this all well in advance.

Do you use TA or GI Bill or are you doing a VA work study? If the answer to any of those is yes, then that is what's allowing you to go to school or paying a portion. You have to make right with the bill payer. AT is scheduled well before it's conducted and the AGO 40, or whatever document your state uses, lists all training events well in advance.

Probably not what you want to hear, but the hard right is just that, hard.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 9:24 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 09:24:08 -0500

My job conflicted with my annual training, and the commander pretty much bullied me into going anyway, and I got no sympathy, even though I'd already done two weeks of annual training.

I was given to understand in 2015 that my going to the MRT course was my annual training, and then at the last minute, I was put in for two more weeks, and I was switching positions at my civilian job. It was important for me to be there. When I tried to appeal to the commander based on an undue burden on my civilian job, he yelled at me and threatened my OER in a hallway in full view of everyone.

I caved, and didn't press the issue, went to the AT, and still got stuck on a data entry mission. Yes, you read that right, a data entry mission. A senior CW2 (at the time) with a Masters degree in Software Engineering, and all I was good for was data entry. When I pushed to try to automate it, since that would increase our productivity, I was told "that's not our job". I'm sorry, but I'm a Signal Chief Warrant Officer. I solve problems in my field. If you don't need me to solve problems, you don't need ME. That's when I started my IRR packet.

So yeah, don't expect anything like a timely commitment from your unit, but be prepared to jump when they say jump, on their timeline.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 9:28 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 09:28:14 -0500

Now, having said what I said, SGT Private RallyPoint Member , bring your laptop and books anyway, and do homework in the evenings as best you can. Load up on coffee to stay awake. You're an adult, so you do what you need to do in order to balance things as best you can. If anyone says anything to you, your response is "Well, command didn't want to work with me, so I'm doing what I can to adjust. I'm here, I'm doing my duty, so what I do with my down time is my own concern, and I'm using the time productively."

I, as a young SGT, used that sort of language when I was on active duty to justify to my at-the-time 1SG why I was in college and not out getting drunk with my fellow new NCOs....

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 9:48 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 09:48:47 -0500

I think it depends on the AT. If it's a CTC or big accreditation for the unit. I would expect a strict policy on skipping AT. If it's more an admin type AT it should be very lenient.
We have a Warfigher in October. So, I inform my soldiers in advance to see if possible to resolve conflicts. I try to be lenient when possible. If it's with civilian career training or school in final semester or in middle of finals. I will allow them to skip AT. The exception are those who are always submitting to get out of AT or drills.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 11:26 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:26:41 -0500

My unit has AT in August of this year.......the first month of the new school year. I have several Soldiers that are in school. They are being required to attend AT.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 11:28 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 23:28:24 -0500

Colleges and employers are required by law to allow you to attend military training without penalty or reprecussions.
You are required to inform your school about your military commitments (they are planned nearly a year in advance, after all) and coordinate with your professors how you will keep up with course work.
Your unit is required to give you "adequate notice" - subject to interpretation, but common view is no less than 90 days - so that you can make necessary arrangements with your employer and/or school.

So long as everyone is doing what they are supposed to do, there should rarely be an issue. Things like labs and residency are difficult to make up for, so a commander should be more flexible in those situations. In my experience, it is almost always the Soldier who knows that they have an AT requirement that waits until the last minute and then requests to get out of AT. Sorry, Hoss. Those AT taskers come printed on something called ORDERS, not Suggestions.

Response by CPT Jacob Swartout made Mar 9 at 2017 12:52 AM

CPT Jacob Swartout — Thu, 09 Mar 2017 00:52:07 -0500

Just ask your college professors to request for the homework to be done after AT. Most will work with the military for schooling. Also, do inform your CoC of your college conflicting prior to AT next time. They might be able to also work things out. Do keep in mind, your unit does need you for training and that is something you shouldn't want to miss out on. It's great you are doing self-development in your studies but your MOS training also only comes so often. Do take in the other posts on this thread too, they have good replies for you too.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 9 at 2017 7:52 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Thu, 09 Mar 2017 19:52:16 -0500

With an entire career in the Reserve, I had many times there were conflicts. Remember the 6 "P"s. 95% of the time I made AT. The other times, with good warning ahead of time, I was able to do a different AT, but you got to make it clear to your leadership early enough. When I was working as a Professional Guide, there were times of the year (hunting season) I couldn't make drill, but I knew this ahead of time and worked it out. Some times I went to Montana and drilled with the Guard there, sometimes I was able to make it up. But the responsibility is upon you to plan ahead, get things worked out.

Response by SPC Gary Welch made Jul 9 at 2018 4:17 PM

SPC Gary Welch — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 16:17:58 -0400

Duty to the service comes first I got so sick and tired of hearing people vitch and whine when training ad or ng interfered with their school in my opinion I think they should do away with all this college crap until they get out of the service I paid all that money to go bill because we had to and in my 19 yrs I never used it or planned to use it you join the service to serve your country not go to school

Response by Amn Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2020 1:47 AM

Amn Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 01:47:00 -0500

In all the colleges, there is the requirement of the training on the annual functions. Somehow, it will be of good option to use, https://www.assignmentgeek.com.au/essay/ this link that has more ideas to visit and give all the persons good trainers.

Get Your Essay Help Online at Affordable Rates | Assignment Geek

Getting your papers written within tight deadlines is now easier than ever. Order your essay writing help from assignmentgeek.com.au and enjoy top-notch service.