Posted on Mar 25, 2015
What is acceptable, with regards to comments on social media, about the President, Elected Officials, or Candidates?
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On various social media sites (RP included) I see a lot, of what I consider, inappropriate comments about our president, other elected/appointed officials, and even potential candidates. I fully understand inappropriate is a matter of opinion. I did not vote for our president, nor am I a fan, but I do respect the office he holds. I also respect the positions of the rest of the elected officials who are front and center.
I am interested in your thoughts on what is in play, and what is not, and do you think things change when you retire? We are all entitled to free speech, but where does that end, and where have we crossed the line?
I am a retired Officer, and still believe I should abide by the same rules I was mandated to on active duty; but, I could be way off base.
This is what I know:
1. It is pretty clear for Officers: Art 88 of UCMJ (Contempt Toward Officials) specifically prohibits: Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
2. It is less clear for NCOs/Soldiers; Gray would be correct too. They are governed by ART 134 (The General Article) perhaps under (Disloyal statements (U.C.M.J. Article 134)) or (Indecent language (U.C.M.J. Article 134)).
3. And, I believe we should always treat everyone the way we want to be treated.
These are some references:
UCMJ:
http://www.ucmj.us/sub-chapter-10-punitive-articles/888-article-88-contempt-toward-officials
http://militaryadvocate.com/punitive-ucmj-articles/
FREE SPEECH IN THE MILITARY: http://nlgmltf.org/leaflets/GI_Rights_free_speech.html
Social media misuse punishable under UCMJ: http://www.army.mil/article/73367/
SFC Mark Merino CPT Aaron Kletzing Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS LTC Yinon Weiss CSM Michael J. Uhlig TSgt Hunter Logan GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad SGT (Join to see) CW5 (Join to see) COL Jean (John) F. B. TSgt Joshua Copeland SGT (Join to see) SGT Jim Z. LCDR Jaron Matlow Capt Christopher Mueller SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SFC William Swartz Jr SGT William Howell Col Michael Grubbs, Ph.D., LMFT-S Col Joseph Lenertz PO2 William Allen Crowder ; Cpl Anthony Pearson CSM (Join to see) ; MAJ (Join to see) SSG Robert Burns
I am interested in your thoughts on what is in play, and what is not, and do you think things change when you retire? We are all entitled to free speech, but where does that end, and where have we crossed the line?
I am a retired Officer, and still believe I should abide by the same rules I was mandated to on active duty; but, I could be way off base.
This is what I know:
1. It is pretty clear for Officers: Art 88 of UCMJ (Contempt Toward Officials) specifically prohibits: Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
2. It is less clear for NCOs/Soldiers; Gray would be correct too. They are governed by ART 134 (The General Article) perhaps under (Disloyal statements (U.C.M.J. Article 134)) or (Indecent language (U.C.M.J. Article 134)).
3. And, I believe we should always treat everyone the way we want to be treated.
These are some references:
UCMJ:
http://www.ucmj.us/sub-chapter-10-punitive-articles/888-article-88-contempt-toward-officials
http://militaryadvocate.com/punitive-ucmj-articles/
FREE SPEECH IN THE MILITARY: http://nlgmltf.org/leaflets/GI_Rights_free_speech.html
Social media misuse punishable under UCMJ: http://www.army.mil/article/73367/
SFC Mark Merino CPT Aaron Kletzing Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS LTC Yinon Weiss CSM Michael J. Uhlig TSgt Hunter Logan GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad SGT (Join to see) CW5 (Join to see) COL Jean (John) F. B. TSgt Joshua Copeland SGT (Join to see) SGT Jim Z. LCDR Jaron Matlow Capt Christopher Mueller SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SFC William Swartz Jr SGT William Howell Col Michael Grubbs, Ph.D., LMFT-S Col Joseph Lenertz PO2 William Allen Crowder ; Cpl Anthony Pearson CSM (Join to see) ; MAJ (Join to see) SSG Robert Burns
Social Media
Freedom of Speech
Respect
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 23
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COL Charles Williams
Sir - I agree with you. I have worked for five Commanders in Chiefs and honestly I can say that I disagreed with a lot of things all of them did. Below is my take
Active duty/Guard/Reserve - You need to respect the Chain of Command and those mentioned above are the top of the chain. Regardless of what your personal feelings are you took an oath to "obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me".
Retired/Veteran - Thank you for your service! Personally, I think that you should conduct yourself in the same manner as those above but, you are a private citizen and the UCMJ does not apply. You have the full protection of the 1st Amendment and it is your right to exercise it.
RallyPoint - I do not think it is a good idea for anyone on this site to comment with disparaging or disrespectful/demeaning words about the POTUS. Everyone has their own beliefs and a good heated debate is great, when it gets out of hand it is unprofessional, regardless of your military status.
Good post sir!
Sir - I agree with you. I have worked for five Commanders in Chiefs and honestly I can say that I disagreed with a lot of things all of them did. Below is my take
Active duty/Guard/Reserve - You need to respect the Chain of Command and those mentioned above are the top of the chain. Regardless of what your personal feelings are you took an oath to "obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me".
Retired/Veteran - Thank you for your service! Personally, I think that you should conduct yourself in the same manner as those above but, you are a private citizen and the UCMJ does not apply. You have the full protection of the 1st Amendment and it is your right to exercise it.
RallyPoint - I do not think it is a good idea for anyone on this site to comment with disparaging or disrespectful/demeaning words about the POTUS. Everyone has their own beliefs and a good heated debate is great, when it gets out of hand it is unprofessional, regardless of your military status.
Good post sir!
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Suspended Profile
I have to agree with everything you've said here, Top...
I will admit to being very critical about all of our politicians, but I don't think I've crossed a line.
COL Charles Williams Col, I presume you tagged me for my myriad posts. When I was on Active Duty, I followed the rules and was not outspoken.
Now that I am a retiree, and also have several other hats that I wear (100% disabled veteran, rabbi, chaplain, veteran's advocate, pastoral counselor, DAV service officer, etc.) these issues are very personal to me.
I am not currently able to work, due to military injuries, thus I am very z/jealous about protecting my compensation and benefits. This President has had the DOD personnel under the gun his entire time in office, and I consider this a complete breach of trust and failure of leadership on his part.
You may have noted that I am also outspoken about GOP politicians as well. I am an equal opportunity hawker. I see my role as rabbi, to carry forward the messages of the Prophets in the Hebrew Bible. Not by way of preaching or proselytizing, but by way of bringing out the ethical messages they taught.
We are failing as a country, hence my question about whether morals and values still matter. While I understand that change can be bottom up driven as well as top down driven, I feel very strongly that the bulk of the issues lie within the beltway...
V/R, Rabbi Jaron Matlow, LCDR USN Ret.
I will admit to being very critical about all of our politicians, but I don't think I've crossed a line.
COL Charles Williams Col, I presume you tagged me for my myriad posts. When I was on Active Duty, I followed the rules and was not outspoken.
Now that I am a retiree, and also have several other hats that I wear (100% disabled veteran, rabbi, chaplain, veteran's advocate, pastoral counselor, DAV service officer, etc.) these issues are very personal to me.
I am not currently able to work, due to military injuries, thus I am very z/jealous about protecting my compensation and benefits. This President has had the DOD personnel under the gun his entire time in office, and I consider this a complete breach of trust and failure of leadership on his part.
You may have noted that I am also outspoken about GOP politicians as well. I am an equal opportunity hawker. I see my role as rabbi, to carry forward the messages of the Prophets in the Hebrew Bible. Not by way of preaching or proselytizing, but by way of bringing out the ethical messages they taught.
We are failing as a country, hence my question about whether morals and values still matter. While I understand that change can be bottom up driven as well as top down driven, I feel very strongly that the bulk of the issues lie within the beltway...
V/R, Rabbi Jaron Matlow, LCDR USN Ret.
COL Charles Williams
Thanks LCDR Jaron Matlow ! I appreciate your comments. I tag various top contributors, in effort to generate ideas, discussions, and various opinions. Thanks for your service.
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You too, Col. Williams...
MAJ (Join to see)
Some Caveats on legal matters, National Guardsmen are not subject to the UCMJ while in an inactive or state status only title 10 Soldiers. NG follow their state's version of (insert state CMJ) For the most part they are identical. Reservists are not subject to UCMJ unless they are in an active or drilling state. So thankfully I can say whatever I want to about our leaders and have it fall right in under my first amendment rights, that said it is very poor taste, particularly as my Avatar is ASU's.
And prosecution of reservists is almost impossible as USARC does not have court martial convening authority, so commander's must request permission from an active duty installation to process UCMJ, you can't even issue more than a summary article 15 due to the Soldier's right to request a court martial which USAR can't facilitate. (Sucks when you are in command and can't prosecute your active duty Soldier for being AWOL)
And prosecution of reservists is almost impossible as USARC does not have court martial convening authority, so commander's must request permission from an active duty installation to process UCMJ, you can't even issue more than a summary article 15 due to the Soldier's right to request a court martial which USAR can't facilitate. (Sucks when you are in command and can't prosecute your active duty Soldier for being AWOL)
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Sir,
I feel it is without our right to criticize opinions or actions taken by an elected official as long as we show them the respect their position deserves. I feel negatively about nearly every elected position and official we have in this country, but that does not make me want to ignore legal orders or insult them directly.
When a direct insult through a mocking nickname or an insult of the position appears, it is wildly inappropriate and unprofessional, no matter how you feel about the individual.
I feel it is without our right to criticize opinions or actions taken by an elected official as long as we show them the respect their position deserves. I feel negatively about nearly every elected position and official we have in this country, but that does not make me want to ignore legal orders or insult them directly.
When a direct insult through a mocking nickname or an insult of the position appears, it is wildly inappropriate and unprofessional, no matter how you feel about the individual.
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I feel that as a retiree my thoughts and opinions concerning any and all elected officials are just that, mine and do not and not fall under UCMJ. I have lived by and preached one simple rule to my Soldiers when I served, "As long as you work for the "man", do not talk bad of the "man"." We all gripe and moan at times about this unit or that duty, etc., but while wearing the uniform of the armed forces one should strive to steer clear of any dialogue that is overly critical of, disrespectful to or merely over the top when it comes to POTUS. As for the clowns in both houses of Congress, well I do not feel the same as they are not the Commander-in-Chief and have brought about most of the derision that they receive.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC James S. thank you for keeping things light. Literally the entire day I keep running into comments you write that are absolutely hilarious without being obnoxious or unprofessional. So thanks, I have enjoyed the humor.
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