What is an effective and creative corrective action for a soldier left a weapon unattended?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 19:00:04 -0500

My soldier left a weapon unattended (no ammo with it but still very much the point). I could go the regular physical corrective action but would rather do something creative yet effective to get the point across... any ideas?

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Mar 9 at 2018 7:06 PM

SGT Frank Pritchett — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 19:06:28 -0500

A Power Point presentation for safety violations given to the Platoon for Prime Time Training with an example of leaving your weapon in secured and the cost of the replacement to include what a CID Investigation entails. and the Company may be invited. I have been through this and that is what I did with a counseling statement and corrective action administered.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Mar 9 at 2018 7:37 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 19:37:36 -0500

Tether the weapon to them. If you aren't going to be doing training with the weapons for a while, find yourself a rubber duck (fake rifle) and tether that to the Soldier. Maybe make them report every so often with the weapon. Make sure that you always do a counseling with the corrective action laid out that way they know exactly what to expect. This is for both you and the Soldier.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2018 8:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 20:34:41 -0500

The army corrective action today takes the "nutless pussy" approach. Just put it on paper and be done with it. Anything else (Anything effective) will get you in trouble so it's not worth it. Gone are the days where Soldiers aren't absolute pansies so honestly you probably shouldn't even bother.

Response by SPC David Willis made Mar 9 at 2018 8:37 PM

SPC David Willis — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 20:37:05 -0500

Tie everything down to their belt Weapon, wallet, dog tags, patrol cap and anything else you can think of. Make them all inspectable items. Full battle rattle can be worn for added effect.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Mar 9 at 2018 10:02 PM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 22:02:23 -0500

Savanna, I have to be honest the ammo is not a huge deal in big picture. The weapon is the big deal. Get creative, but not necessarily nice. Get a rubber duck, aka rubber weapon make him/her keep it 24/7. The cant sign into the arms room lock it into a locker. They will have it with them all the time, at PT, *in the shower, in the latrine, at chow. Inform all the NCO's in the unit so they can help you keep taps on your incident waiting to happen. Savanna, I have slept with a rifle and pistol within hands reach in several counties. Anytime I showered I made sure someone was watching it and I knew where they would be as soon as I got out. It could be something as simple as an oversight, a temporary lapse. Weapon accountability is skill level 1. You be the one who fits this, you be the NCO who steps in and does whats right. You see a troop that needs some fixing, so fix 'em.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 9 at 2018 10:22 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 22:22:46 -0500

Next his training- tie his weapon to him with a "dummy Cord" till the exercise is over.

Response by SGT(P) Joe Zitzelberger made Mar 9 at 2018 10:32 PM

SGT(P) Joe Zitzelberger — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 22:32:34 -0500

I'm pretty uncreative on this. I would, of course, instantly secure the weapon, and place it with another soldier under guard.

Then I would go around and do do the Green III Sensitive Items check on the squad and allow the soldier to squirm and freak out for a while...then, when they are about to completely lose it, I'd probably attach his weapon to his person in about 10 places with 550 cord and make sure it was in place for the remainder of the field problem or whatever with hourly reports for inspection.

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Mar 10 at 2018 12:19 AM

MSgt Steve Sweeney — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 00:19:47 -0500

The lesson is accountability. You tell the soldier that he must demonstrate he can maintain accountability for something simple before he can be trusted to maintain accountability of a weapon.... and then you have him carry something large enough that he can't shove it in his pocket... like a beach ball, for a week or so. Whatever it is, it is with him 100% of the time, even on liberty. The embarrassment he endures from carrying a beach ball will help reinforce the lesson....

Response by CW3 Jeff Held made Mar 10 at 2018 12:56 AM

CW3 Jeff Held — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 00:56:11 -0500

Losing a weapon or other sensitive item is a very serious infraction.

If this Troop was a soup sandwich this would be their last hurrah. If you’ve never been locked down because some knuckle head lost a weapon, NOD, SOI/CEOI, or a comm ‘fill’ then you have no idea the kind of shit stew that results from that persons stupidity. I might even hit up the CoC (starting with Top) to see what their pleasures were. Otherwise no need to hang ‘em from a flagpole.

So; what to do about it? Even if this Troop was your very best and had a brain fart I would give them the worst SAC (serious ass chewing) they could have ever imagined. Make you point, make it clear, make it stick, and be done with it. If something like that happened again I would have serious doubts about this persons ability to be promoted to given increased responsibility.

I’ve done some really stupid shit and made it through with the occasional shoe leather injection on my 6.

Response by LTC Robin Gronovius made Mar 10 at 2018 1:04 AM

LTC Robin Gronovius — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 01:04:08 -0500

Get a 2x4 about the length of a rifle, stencil the words "I left my rifle unattended" and make him carry the 2x4 around for the week.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Mar 10 at 2018 1:46 AM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 01:46:11 -0500

Time to visit the Armory and start cleaning weapons. A lot of weapons.

Response by PO1 Brian Austin made Mar 10 at 2018 3:59 AM

PO1 Brian Austin — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 03:59:41 -0500

What would happen if it was a senior enlisted, say a CSM?
I found a side arm and holster one night in a porta-john while at Camp Lima Karbala Iraq.
I turned it into the TOC, later found out it was the unit CSM's. Never heard if anything happened or not.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Mar 10 at 2018 7:12 AM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 07:12:38 -0500

Savanna just hit me, back when I was an SF candidate in training I/we would regularly get tagged for some rifle pt. I am gathering you would like to explore all your options before you break this lad physically. But just in case it comes to it, our trainers got mad at us, which was pretty often and easy, we would run in place rifles at port arms, then over our heads, then straight out in front of us. We would do squats with it over our heads, oh all this is with a 55 pound rucksack on. As you can see it is up to your imagination. Now many people think of physical correction as some push ups and you are done. No, no, no, that might work for something other than an unsecured weapon but the physical attention at a minimum should leave a very sweaty, sore soldier.

In closing, I will tell you Savanna in SF if left a weapon unattended that would be a kiss of death for a young troop. The individual would most likely be encouraged to find a new unit, job, MOS, service, maybe get a job at the shoe store or gas station. Weapons are very serious

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Mar 10 at 2018 7:22 AM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 07:22:07 -0500

...Sorry Savanna another story one of my trips to Afghanistan was working with the Dutch SF guys. They had a brand new compound real close to the airfield. My team house was right on the airfield. I remember coming out of the shower/latrine one morning with my shaving bag and towel wrapped around me and the outside of the latrine was an M16 leaning on the building. I stopped and looked around saw nobody. Some young guy walked out I ask him if it was his, he said nope but may know who's it is. I told him he could get one of the unit's NCO to come get it now our I would take it with me. In a minute about 3 guys came running up and gave all the information and collected the weapon. Hey accidents happen, but you have got to learn.

Good luck CPL Savanna Sansone

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Mar 10 at 2018 7:55 AM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 07:55:16 -0500

I secured the weapon, removed the bolt carrier group. Soldier was in panic looking for M4. Returned M4, instructed solider to do function check ( kinda hard to do with out bolt carrier group). After that embarrassing moment bolt carrier was returned. Soldier also had the pleasure of cleaning one of sections weapons a day. A few weeks later solider left his loaded magazines when he went to chow ... but that's another story!

Response by Sgt Lawrence Fraker made Mar 10 at 2018 9:21 AM

Sgt Lawrence Fraker — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 09:21:45 -0500

Issue him a mop. Require him to carry it at all times at port arms/shoulder arms. Inspect it daily for cleaniness.

Response by SGT Aric Lier made Mar 10 at 2018 10:51 AM

SGT Aric Lier — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 10:51:08 -0500

I see a lot of rubber ducks.... We used a similar approach however they had to earn the right to a rubber duck as they were not responsible enough for a weapon real or fake. we made them carry a company gag gun made of plywood or PVC painted pink and neon orange labeled so everyone knew. they then had to lead Sgt.s time on the importance of security etc etc for a few weeks

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 10 at 2018 12:17 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 12:17:11 -0500

duct tape to his hand, have him sit down with an MP and do a detailed report of how he lost it, and what the charges could amount to, the time he may have served if it was believed to be intentional. If you have a contact in legal have him sit down with a prosecutor so he can get a feel for what would be heading his way.

Response by SGT Mark Halmrast made Mar 10 at 2018 10:25 PM

SGT Mark Halmrast — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 22:25:46 -0500

Have him conduct a sensitive items check every four hours of all of the platoon's sensitive items for 72 hours.

The sensitive items checks are conducted in full gear, minus ruck.

And his weapon (or rubber duck) is dummy corded to him the entire 72 hours.

If he misses one item on the sensitive items check, the 72 hours starts over from zero.

Response by Cpl John Barker made Mar 11 at 2018 8:29 PM

Cpl John Barker — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 20:29:50 -0400

Make him tie it to his leg...we had this one shitbag named Hall who we did this to, the idiot actually walked off and started dragging the thing with him...they call us crayon eaters for a reason

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2018 12:07 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2018 12:07:00 -0400

Let SM pack weapon 24/7 for a few days, with authority from Command and Armory. If he's a potential nut case or stress monster, put a trigger lock on it to prevent him from harming others.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Mar 12 at 2018 8:44 PM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Mon, 12 Mar 2018 20:44:42 -0400

Savanna I have been thinking about this and thinking about this, understand I am retired now so take it for what its worth. I am assuming this is a salvageable soldier, if not beat him to death with a bat, then pitch him in the dumpster at the gas station.

If salvageable, beat him with a bat, not till dead and not till broken forever, but pretty damn mangled. Then do all the other stuff suggested. Explain that you spared his life for the simple reason you thought he was salvageable. However, if you had to readdress this issue the outcome would be different.

Savanna understand I am not being serious, I understand we cant kill or maim our people. Maybe sit on this one just incase some day we can. Kidding just kidding

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Mar 13 at 2018 3:02 AM

MSG John Duchesneau — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 03:02:55 -0400

Make him carry his weapon at all times during duty hours for a week. If you can't sign out a real weapon for the week the give him a "rubber duck".

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 11:00 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 23:00:53 -0400

We had a guy do this in Afghanistan and our LTC had him carry around the 249 for a week

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made Mar 14 at 2018 10:38 AM

MAJ Haris Balcinovic — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 10:38:13 -0400

Carrying this for a week should do the trick

Response by SSG Brian Carpenter made Apr 15 at 2018 8:09 PM

SSG Brian Carpenter — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 20:09:37 -0400

Dig a two man fighting position. Emphasizing on how he must keep his weapon handy at all times as he does not have cover yet

Response by CPL Sharon Fahey made Aug 3 at 2018 12:06 AM

CPL Sharon Fahey — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 00:06:32 -0400

We had a trainee do that in basic. The drill sergeants made him low crawl for an entire day with all his gear.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Aug 15 at 2018 12:39 AM

CPT Robert Boshears — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 00:39:20 -0400

Tie a boot string to his weapon and the other end to their body. A loose weapon is something usually seen in basic training... minor punishment maximum training. In a real environment, with or without danger, look for another branch.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Oct 7 at 2018 6:20 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 18:20:08 -0400

I received an article 15 during basic training. I appreciate that now.

Response by SGT Reed Webber made Jan 27 at 2019 10:47 PM

SGT Reed Webber — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 22:47:22 -0500

Depending upon the SMs rank, have him stand at the front door of the DFAC at Parade Rest (under arms, of course) and everytime someone comes to the door to go inside, have him go to Position of Attention at Port Arms and either give your Units motto/ saying or better than that, you have the SM announce that meals menu to EVERYONE entering the DFAC. If it is an Officer or Cadet, the SM has to go to Present Arms instead of Port.

...or you can just do what we did to a Butter Bar LT who left his rifle at the water buffalo...first, he had to find it. After the panic wore off and he figured out someone had it, he had to figure out which supply SGT actually had it...from which Company. After giving him the official run around for about an hour, he had to dummy chord it to himself...not his gear...but himself for 1 week. He never lost it again!

Response by Sgt Wayne Horton made Jan 31 at 2019 4:36 PM

Sgt Wayne Horton — Thu, 31 Jan 2019 16:36:49 -0500

better make amends with whatever god you serve...

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Apr 21 at 2019 11:21 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Sun, 21 Apr 2019 23:21:16 -0400

Take it! Give him or her the time to think of their screw up. Give the weapon to their Platoon or Furst Sergeant.

Response by CW4 Jo King made May 24 at 2019 11:19 AM

CW4 Jo King — Fri, 24 May 2019 11:19:42 -0400

Go to hobby lobby and get a pretty ribbon. Tie on end to his weapon and secure the other end to his person.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2019 1:07 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:07:53 -0400

If they are an ARNG company commander and a CPT, apparently the answer is send him to BDE HQ and promote him to MAJ.....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2019 10:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 22:46:37 -0400

I would let them go and try to find the weapon even if I have it. I truly believe the fear and panic that comes with not only losing a weapon, but being unable to find it, alone is a great lesson. I'd let them panic and look, and then let them know I have it. Only once did I almost lose mine, and the panic alone made me never have an almost, again.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2019 11:28 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 23:28:43 -0400

I know a guy that left his rifle hanging off of his rack. His squad leader disassembled it and gave each piece to a different NCO in the company. The individual had to go on a scavenger hunt to get all of the pieces back.

Response by SPC Steve Willis, PhD made Jul 29 at 2019 6:46 PM

SPC Steve Willis, PhD — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 18:46:04 -0400

Even though I had left my M-16 in a locked room to which only I had the key, the Article 15 I received cured me of such oversights! The fact it was in that locked room mitigated my punishment to some degree I assume.

Response by CPT Daniel Cox made Aug 12 at 2019 8:53 PM

CPT Daniel Cox — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 20:53:02 -0400

Just don't use the punishment that the Republic of Korea officer's used while I was in the ROK in 1982. I was informed by my ROK Army liason (a ROK Major) that a ROK unit had had trouble with rifles being lost on field exercises and the commander authorized summary execution after an M-16 was lost while on a training exercise.

Response by PFC Kenneth Anderson made Feb 8 at 2020 5:34 AM

PFC Kenneth Anderson — Sat, 08 Feb 2020 05:34:34 -0500

Article 15?!

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Mar 25 at 2020 2:17 PM

CWO4 Tim Hecht — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 14:17:34 -0400

Losing (or forgetting) one’s assigned firearm is about as bad as I would venture to guess in any job requiring a firearm. Lives could be at stake. I can only think of one situation where losing my side arm would be justifiable. I used to conduct armed boarding from a Coast Guard Cutter. On the bridge was the Gunner’s Mate (E6) manning the Ma Deuce; in the small boat was either a shotgun or select fire AR; and we (4-6) members of the Boarding Team were armed with 1911A1s, 3 loaded magazines; 5 “D” Cell Flashlight (aka Baton); radio; handcuffs; knives, rubber gloves, hard hat and safety boots or deck shoes depending on the boat we were boarding; some also had the backpack full of boarding tools and forms. We also wore a Sterns Work “Life Vest” that had the floatation level sufficient for a 150# person in pants, shirt, and sneakers! I mentioned numerous at debriefings that we should practice in a swimming pool to practice surviving an unintentional dunking. Never happened in my day.

We had a Boarding Team Member actually fall between the small boat and the commercial fishing boat being boarded; he lost his radio, hard hat and tried with all his might (and I’m sure some intense praying) to break the surface. He did just enough that two people in the boat grabbed him and pulled him to safety. My Emergency Egress Plan if I went into the water was first remove the belt keepers holding the gun belt to my trouser’s belt, loosened the laces on my boots so I could kick them off, and drop the duty belt with everything on it. Hell who’s diving 3,000’ deep in the Eastern Pacific looking for a gun? I sure didn’t want to be on the express elevator to the bottom!

On another vein - it’s embarrassing at the beginning of your ship to ask the Supervisor for permission to run home (lived literally 5 minutes from work) to get the gun you left in the nightstand! The nicer sups said sure, the pricks charged you with 30 minutes of leave time.

I’ve forgotten It safe at home but never lost an issued fire arm. With sincerity I’d say “suck’s to be you” then for real help you try to find it. Not being upfront with your chain of command makes it a damn sight worse!

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Mar 29 at 2020 10:38 PM

1SG Ernest Stull — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 22:38:33 -0400

Yes dummy cord it to him with 550 cord so he could not leave it behind. Leaving your weapon unattended is a UCMJ action.

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made Apr 27 at 2020 11:14 AM

CPO Arthur Weinberger — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:14:02 -0400

100 pushups,100 situps with a 45 lb weight behind the neck, run-in place for one hour with 25lb dumbells. No food all day, no birthday party for the next five years. Drop his or her panties and spank vigorously for thirty minutes. His or her parents and clergy should also be made aware.

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made May 19 at 2020 2:04 PM

CPT Brad Wilson — Tue, 19 May 2020 14:04:17 -0400

Had this happen on my first deployment We were guarding a chemical weapons disposal facility and 3 of my young soldiers decided to have lunch at a cafe on the base. Instead of leaving 1 or 2 in their humvee all 3 went in and not only ordered but sat down to eat. The base commander was having lunch their also and saw their unattended vehicle with a mounted M60 on the roof and 3 M16’s along with a couple of ammo boxes. He deposited the weapons and ammo at our TOC My Bn Cdr then deposited them at my little operations center. After losing a couple pounds of my a.. I was told to fix it. I had the 3 offenders do push-ups while in my best Gunny Hartman voice explained to them the error of their ways I then restricted them to the base and assigned them a bunch of additional duties. They had to have their weapons in arms reach at all times for a week Then they had to clean their weapons to the armorers satisfaction every day for a week (not much of a punishment after the first day).

Response by SFC Steven Hetletvedt made Jul 30 at 2020 3:34 PM

SFC Steven Hetletvedt — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 15:34:37 -0400

This may be mean but keep his weapon locked up. Contact his command and let them know what you are doing. Make them sweat. Sometimes this is what you have to do to get your point across.