What is considered a respectable rank upon retirement? How do you feel about RCP?

2014-06-25T21:48:50-04:00

I whole-heartily agree that all members serving in the military regardless of their branch or position are to be respected and I am thankful for all my brothers and sisters in arms.

However I sometimes question what certain personnel have done with their career. For example, I can't for the life of me understand why an NCO in Air Defense Artillery would be satisfied retiring as a SSG/E-6. I for one believe that the Army's RCP (retention control point) system is great. The only flaw I see is that is should be tailored to the MOS. I would love to hear your opinions on this.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Jun 25 at 2014 10:11 PM

2014-06-25T22:11:47-04:00

The Pay Grade you achieve at retirement is a respectable one. There are so many factors that are out of a person's control that it is impossible to predict where you will wind up. Service cutbacks, like the Active Duty Force is experiencing right now will cap many at a point they would have otherwise passed.

Everyone wants to retire at E-9 or O-7 or above. NEC/Rate/Needs of the Service/Peace vs War/ and multiple factors all cause us to achieve or fail to achieve our dreams.

The Navy also has an up or out policy so if you do not achieve a pay grade by a certain time in service, it is time to get out. Quotas for selection to E-7, 8 and 9 just came out for Navy and they are tight as can be expected during a time of cutbacks. Many very worthy First Class Petty Officers will not be selected for advancement because of this, but I feel the Navy system with Service Wide exams and Selection Boards for all in each speciality are as fair as possible.

This is just my two cents worth of course.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jun 25 at 2014 10:41 PM

2014-06-25T22:41:25-04:00

Why do YOU question what others are doing or not doing in their careers? If they retire at SGT with 20 years, what does it matter?

Not everyone will be able to make different ranks (for various reasons), but they served their country more than the average American.

Response by MSG Martin C. made Jun 25 at 2014 10:46 PM

2014-06-25T22:46:14-04:00

Just like wine every one eventually peaks at a point in life, not every one has the potential or drive to make it to the Senior or officer ranks. This is no different in the civilian world it's a misconception that everyone will make a certain rank specially to MSG or CSM on the enlisted side. If you compare our retirement average against other branches we are actually doing better however it's not uncommon to retire as a SSG the problem it's that many believe that the fast promotion trend still is in place but the truth is that is not the norm and it never was. It will get tough to make rank from now on and only those who are above their peers will have a shoot at it but we should never judge anyone on their achievements specially anyone that fulfills honorably 20+ years of service.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Jun 26 at 2014 1:34 AM

2014-06-26T01:34:41-04:00

Whichever one is on your ID card.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2014 2:38 AM

2014-06-26T02:38:09-04:00

I'm perfectly ok if I retire as a e-7.... 10 years until retirement

Response by SFC Rich Carey made Jun 26 at 2014 7:02 AM

2014-06-26T07:02:22-04:00

Generations from now it will not matter what my rank was, the type of quarters I had or where I was assigned, but the Army maybe better because I was important in the lives of my Soldiers and their families

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Jun 26 at 2014 7:39 AM

2014-06-26T07:39:07-04:00

My personal goal was SFC and I'm happy I exceeded that. I agree that the MOS is a primary factor in determining how quickly and how far you can progress (at least in the Army) but I'm not sure that managing RCPs by MOS would be effective given that DA (HRC specifically) is constantly trying to keep all the MOSs balanced (not as easy a task as it would seem!).

Response by PO3 Jordan W. made Jun 26 at 2014 7:45 AM

2014-06-26T07:45:39-04:00

To me everyone wants to be a chief. It's a community that once in you never forget and never lose even when you retire. Just like being called Gunny is probably a feeling a marine will never forget. For me though having at least one star on that anchor by the end of service is where I aim.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2014 9:00 AM

2014-06-26T09:00:13-04:00

SSG Love, I have read many of your responses here, and I understand that your original written question is not really what you are trying to ask. So with that, I will offer this.....

1) When a person retires, whatever ranked they achieved is what they deserve and that is honorable, as less than 1% of Americans serve their nation in the capacity that we do.

2) As to the comments you have made about others doing the wrong things and not being motivated... We as leaders will always come across people who we feel are not giving it 100%. Sometimes we can help those people and re energize them. But to truly know why they are that way, you have to know them and know their story. Other than trying to help them and get them on the right track again, keep yourself straight and make sure that you never find yourself doing what they are doing that gets under your skin.

Oh, and I think RCP is a great tool!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2014 10:01 AM

2014-06-26T10:01:12-04:00

I came into the Direct Commission program knowing that I was on the back half of my career. That being said, I've always looked to make LTC before retirement, but realistically would not be hurt if I retired a MAJ. I think you have to make the conscience effort to aim two spots higher than were you are, and continue to work towards that. If you don't make it, you can look back and say you tried, assuming you did. When I was enlisted, CSM was where I wanted to be, and I was on track to be SFC in 10 years, so it was a real possibility. Good luck to you, hope this helps.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2014 10:29 AM

2014-06-26T10:29:18-04:00

Thanks for posting the question SSG. In this day and age the military is tough because of Med Boards, retention requirements, and high standards because we only want to keep the best and brightest. The days of "if you have a pulse after 20 years" you can retire are long gone. if you can make it to 20 years or beyond and retire you should earn the respect that goes along with that regardless of your rank. Whether you retire as an E6 or an O6 you have earned it. I could be forced to retire if I do not get selected for O4 but you know what, a 22 year career O3 that started at E1.....I've had a good ride. If not selected I will go away with my head high because regardless of what rank I attained I know what I have done in my time. This is what we should respect....what did you do with your 20 years.....not how many stripes you earned. Just my opinion. Thanks for listening.

Response by SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh made Jun 26 at 2014 11:01 AM

2014-06-26T11:01:22-04:00

I've red boxed the last two MSG board. It wasn't because I felt I couldn't do the job it was because I have no desire to do the job. I love running a Platoon and doing missions and I know that if I pick up that third rocker or a diamond I would lose everything I love about being in the Army. Does this make me less of an NCO because I have no desire to be at that level? Some might think so but I really don't care. The only things I care about is doing mission and my team I lead.

You say you can't understand why your fellow ADA SSG are satisfied with retiring as a SSG. I have to ask, did you ask them?

Response by SGM Mike Bachini made Jun 26 at 2014 12:05 PM

2014-06-26T12:05:55-04:00

I have seen a few retire at SGT and a boat load at SSG.
They were happy doing the job that they felt they were good at. The British army does not have up or out rules, you could be a CPL in the Scott's regiment for 20 years and everyone was happy to have you be there.
Lots of folks in the support MOS's are happy doing their job. Truck drivers that just want to drive, mechanics that just want to turn wrenches, etc.
It is a poor policy about the up or out, the service loses quite a bit of knowledge and experience enforcing that rule.

Now on the other hand, the 7.5 year TIG SPC who is Grand Poobah of the local Blue Falcon chapter and does everything in his or her power to avoid actually doing their job, or any job for that matter, needs to go.

I do believe they should come up with a catch all MOS. This MOS would be the main pool of candidates that perform borrow military manpower jobs and some of the "maintenance" on a base or for an organization. Grass cutting, the R&U crew, tax center, flag detail, special ceremonies, etc. Either that or make it a two year "tour" on an installation, followed on with an assignment doing "Army stuff".

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2014 2:00 PM

2014-06-26T14:00:39-04:00

Making it to retirement is enough satisfaction and should be respected regardless if you retire as a Sergeant or as a General

Response by SSgt Tim Ricci made Jun 26 at 2014 5:39 PM

2014-06-26T17:39:42-04:00

Respectable rank upon retirement? HMMM Interesting, Depends on what had happened in your Career, Some MOSs do not promote very fast but, if I had to Baseline it E7 for Enlisted at 20-22 yrs and O4 for Officers at 20 years. Myself I certainly wanted to be a Gunny in the Marines but with my era and having served in 2 different services E-6 was all I could Muster! The vast majorty of my friends that retire the same time I did was also E6s our MOS just didnt promote!

Response by TSgt AnnaBelle Bryan made Jun 26 at 2014 7:38 PM

2014-06-26T19:38:22-04:00

An E-9 once told me, "When it's no longer fun, it's time to retire."

I was an E-6 and was on the list for commissioning. The year I was supposed to commission...I just knew it was time to retire.

I retired as an E-6. I am so proud of the 20 years I spent in the AF.

I agree with many of the post here on RP. There is NO one rank. I guess you just need to be ready for the change.

Since I retired, I am doing research with some of the TOP military suicide researchers. I have published several articles on PTSD, moral injury and military sexual trauma. I changed my career trajectory from Preventive Medicine to Psychology. I am working with veterans and I am working with a group that helps change policy for protecting our active duty military. I work with Army, Air Force, Marines and pretty soon with the Navy. I feel my decision to retire worked in my favor.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2014 10:03 PM

2014-06-26T22:03:55-04:00

My ultimate goal, as I believe and hope every young enlisted member in any branch of the military would be, is to retire as an E-9. Striving for this, in my humble opinion, would mean doing your absolute best at absolutely every task you may encumber. Circumstances definitely play a role in how fast/slow we advance and some people have even been demoted but found the inner strength and resolve to get back up to where they wanted to be prior to exiting the military. I do believe however, that E-7 is the status quo for retirement from the military for us enlisted folks.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2014 3:47 AM

2014-06-27T03:47:59-04:00

I'm going to answer this in reverse order: RCP is a necessary tool used as a force reduction lever. It allows the military to reduce personnel levels without being subjective to an individual. Soldier X has reached Y years, it's time to separate, regardless of how bod or good you have been or what you have accomplished or what you didn't accomplish. It's not perfect, but it's the best available UNBIASED way to reduce personnel levels. As to what is a respectable rank to retire? Well, when first enlisted in 2000, from what I saw around me then, I felt that if I could attain the rank of SFC by the 18-20yr mark I could retire and feel really could about what I accomplished. Fast forward 13yrs and I'm selected for SFC 5yrs ahead of my "plan". I have accomplished much in my time so far, but feel as if there is still much more I can do. I had enlisted with the intention of getting out after 4yrs, then I said I'd stay till 20yrs for retirement. Now, I know I can continue to serve the Soldiers and contribute to the success of the Army. I'm not planning on leaving until I can no longer be effective in what I do, so I will be a Sergeant Major. My goal is perform in positions that will continue to enhance my skills in providing the best possible combat support to the warfighter, but I am starting to focus on the strategic level more. I keep my finger on the pulse, but I see the "bigger" picture a bit more clearly.

Response by CPT Jacob Swartout made Aug 10 at 2014 10:08 PM

2014-08-10T22:08:01-04:00

For me it will be CPT since I'm prior service enlisted NCO. Making MAJ would me that I will be in longer than my last few years I have left to retire. Wife wants me to do my time and move on with other things in life.

Now Major does sound great.....

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 12 at 2014 1:14 AM

2014-08-12T01:14:09-04:00

I made it to Chief Cook and Bottle Washer 7th award. I was a career SFC. 7 years TIG with no adverse actions, everything maxed out, NCOER's 1-block......I pissed somebody off I guess. It was a fun ride though. I'd do anything to be back in the saddle.

Response by MSgt Jim Pollock made Dec 30 at 2014 8:11 AM

2014-12-30T08:11:30-05:00

Rethought, reposted.

Response by MSgt Jim Pollock made Feb 22 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-02-22T13:10:20-05:00

Retired status is respectable regardless of rank achieved. It's an honor that grants a permanent place in the military family and it's not a status that is bestowed lightly. The circumstances of each person's retirement is grounds for lively conversation over beers, not judgement.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2015 1:24 PM

2015-02-22T13:24:54-05:00

I never liked RCP. I knew quite a lot of Specialists (E-4) that were forced out. They knew their job very very well and they just didn't want the extra responsibility.

Not sure why the Army would want to have someone who was very experienced and was paid a lot less.

Not everyone needs to be a leader, not everyone wants to be a leader, and you can't measure leadership based upon the amount of time you work somewhere.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Feb 27 at 2015 6:35 PM

2015-02-27T18:35:11-05:00

Bottom line, anyone who can manage to perform well enough and meet standards for 20 years should be congratulated.
Also, standards need to not slide. As we move "reportedly" into a peacetime Garrison force you can be sure the standards will combat slide (at least a little) and peacetime crush ( no forgiven DUI's anymore) a lot of folks.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 8:07 PM

2015-02-27T20:07:36-05:00

I have great respect for anyone who retires at any rank.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 4:16 PM

2015-03-12T16:16:52-04:00

Interesting how the question was phrased using "respectable rank." Suffice it that if good ol Uncle Sam can retire someone at any rank, I guess that's the threshold for "respectable."

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2016 6:47 PM

2016-08-04T18:47:26-04:00

A "respectable" rank upon retirement is any rank that is held where the member can look back and say "I did the best I could do every day and I never intentionally screwed over anyone".
Everyone has different goals. My goal was never rank, it was to not get yelled at. It worked out pretty well, but regardless of leaving the service as a SSG or a SGM, my daily goals remained; take care of Soldiers, with honor and integrity, and have a good time doing it. The more rank I attain, the wider my footprint of effects.
Retention control points are more than fair enough that tailoring them to MOS' is not necessary. Fourteen years to make SSG is more than enough time. There are scenarios where this is going to be difficult; a prior service member that rejoined at 10 years as a PFC. A Soldier that made a mistake and was reduced late in his/her available years.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2017 8:06 PM

2017-03-28T20:06:06-04:00

LTC is my goal rank for retirement.

My father was prior enlisted as well and he retired at MAJ.

I want to get one over on the old man :-)

Response by SSG Darin McNeely made Jun 16 at 2017 11:26 PM

2017-06-16T23:26:37-04:00

and don't forget the "Peter Principal" to be promoted to the highest level of your incompetence
and some of us like being in the middle,to still work hands on with troops and stay out of the upper ranks,politics,brown nosing. I was medically retired with 9 years as a SSG from starting as a PVT in 2000. I made SSG in 5 years and was happy there. I was high speed but liked getting my hands dirty working with my guys. I could have made E7 in my mos, I just didn't want to. I wasn't a shitbag and I did my job well and i gave 110% and im content with that. I didn't want to be med retired but if i wasn't I would have stayed a SSG as long as I could have. it wasn't the pay or respect I wanted but with my teams I was able to train and still go play with them, with WAY less politics and bullshit. i would have been just fine retiring as an SSG after 20 with 15 years TIG.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Oct 30 at 2017 11:56 PM

2017-10-30T23:56:36-04:00

Wanted to retire after my tour as CMC, but family needed me and I figured E-1 to O-5 in 24 years, 6 months was respectable.

Response by SSG George Holtje made Jun 19 at 2018 12:31 AM

2018-06-19T00:31:24-04:00

I stayed a Staff Sergeant in the infantry because after many times being an APSG, I had no desire to permantly leave a Squad Leader position. Sometimes it is about loving your job.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 26 at 2018 9:40 PM

2018-08-26T21:40:06-04:00

The one you retired at. Don’t care much for the question. Is there anyone that knows someone that was an E-5, and excellent in his/her field?

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 26 at 2018 10:27 PM

2018-08-26T22:27:06-04:00

If the discharge is honorable, doesn't that say it all?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2018 11:02 PM

2018-08-26T23:02:43-04:00

Respectfully, I think it’s important to continually ask yourself the same question about what hove done with your career. You don’t appear to be on the fast track to E8/E9. You don’t appear to be any more decorated than average.

This is not an insult. But, what makes your career special enough where you can wonder about others, “wow, how can that guy be satisfied?” If there service is honorable, their mission is always completed, they are technically and tactically proficient, and their soldiers are taken care of, for some, that is more satisfying with the acquisition of rank.

Before September 11, retiring at E6 wasn’t all that uncommon. It was far more uncommon to make ‘7 in 7’. Two wars, though, have a funny way of speeding up careers and changing perceptions. As the wars have slowed down, the lightning fast promotion rates are going back with them. However, the perception that retiring at E6 is somehow shameful or indicative of an inconsequential career will probably stick around for a while.

Like any organization, The Army needs middle management. Not everyone is able, or wants, to get above middle management. That’s not to be inherently looked down upon.

Best of luck.

Response by SSG Chris Shaw made Feb 5 at 2019 6:46 PM

2019-02-05T18:46:51-05:00

I fought Hard to remain an E-5 (SGT) for 13 years from 1993 to 2004. I was always on the top of the promotion list for 67T30 and always deferred it, my reason is I wanted to just keep flying as a Crew Chief in a UH-60 Black Hawk. In 2004, I got deployed to OIF-III and I knew it was time to accept the SSG promotion. I retired 21 months later as a E-6 Staff Sergeant.

Response by SPC Phillip Sheppard made Feb 21 at 2019 11:58 PM

2019-02-21T23:58:39-05:00

I am medically retired SP4 and am just as proud of having served my country as my father 23 years, brother 9 years and sister 7 yesrs. We all volunteered at different times but be each are glad we served. I am turning 61 soon and look back at my years in the Army as one of the best decision I ever made as a young man, made a better man of me.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2019 2:58 PM

2019-02-28T14:58:24-05:00

As a Soldier of 26 years retiring as CSM I don't feel that everyone who enlists should have to obtain rank by any certain time. Although from my experience some are lazy and do their time or milk the system just to get paid, some E6's should have never made E5 but to not get thrown out and without proper documentation to throw them out they get promoted and some Jr enlisted is forced to suffer under poor leadership. On the other hand I had mid level NCO's who never wanted to be higher then squad leader. Not because they were lazy but they had a passion to lead, eat, sleep, and fight with in an arms reach of their men. E7 for them meant paperwork, meetings, planning, and everything but getting dirty with their brothers on the line. Not to upset the SFC and above I know you get dirty but your role turns from tactical to admin. Not everyone who joins is meant to retire E9 but don't those other Soldiers with desire to pass pay raises to do what they love serve a valuable role. Have to distinguish between turning down promotion from no way in hell will they promote him

Response by MAJ Christopher Thompson made Mar 10 at 2019 11:41 PM

2019-03-10T23:41:47-04:00

Something that seemed to be omitted here is those that transitioned late from enlisted to either WO or officer. It can absolutely upset chances to retire at ranks above what some may consider "average retirement rank" simply due to fact those individuals are fighting areas such as injuries, age, and time in service boundaries.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2019 8:49 AM

2019-03-11T08:49:58-04:00

It's easy to infer that you believe the 20-year SSG is deficient. That SSG may have faced challenges that would have other to fold. They are meeting the required standard, but that's not good enough for you. Interesting. It days as much about you, as it does them.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Mar 12 at 2019 11:35 AM

2019-03-12T11:35:01-04:00

Depends on the MOS, for some SSG is the mark on the wall. For most Engineer MOS's SFC is the mark of a successful career.

Response by SSG Brad Limoge made Apr 3 at 2019 5:04 PM

2019-04-03T17:04:40-04:00

Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. After four years of active duty, I joined the National Guard. In a little over 20 years with the Guard I was offered OCS and E-7 twice but because I was working long, irregular hours in a small family business I could not drive the hour each way to attend weekly training meetings and, consequently, retired as an E-6.

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made May 8 at 2019 4:27 PM

2019-05-08T16:27:03-04:00

When young people ask me if they should join the Military, I generally ask one question... Why do you want to? Some respond with a look somewhere between disbelief and confusion... others, go on to explain how "patriotism", "duty", etc. motivates them... a few.. a d@^* few are honest enough to admit it's benefits, education, or a sense of wanting to do something "high-speed" , "meaningful", or "special" with their lives.

These are the one's I generally keep talking to. Why? Because some people join because someone "sold" them on it, others join because they misunderstand what they're heading into... and some realize that like any other profession, there are "pros" and "cons". The latter seem best able to figure out it's about doing the job, every day, and taking personal responsibility for managing one's own fate.

My personal take is that making it to retirement in any profession is daunting. I'm on career number three and hoping for the best. I was so shocked when I made O-4, I called my detailer to confirm it. I would've loved to have made thirty years... I had to settle for roughly a third of that, and I'm satisfied that I got as far as I did.

I've known OUTSTANDING personnel who got passed over, and absolute oxygen sponges who made rank...I've even met one or two who went from commissioned to enlisted just because it was the only way they could continue to serve, and it meant THAT much to them.

I get what you're saying, and we've all know the people who "retire on active duty"...from what I hear, it's getting worse in some respects. Still, there's so much that can get in the way of a "good" career...seniors who play political games, subordinates who are striking for "sea lawyer", and just plain ol' "burn-out"....so I'm willing to take a lot on faith.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2019 2:11 PM

2019-09-30T14:11:06-04:00

Satisfaction is within the individual, If they want more , they do what is required to achieve it.
I do understand some get left out in the cold with no fault of their own. LIFE ain't it good to be alive.

Response by SSgt Gerald Davis Jr made Nov 13 at 2019 8:44 PM

2019-11-13T20:44:00-05:00

Career Pvts were great.