What is everyone's thought on wearing service ribbons in rows of 4 rather than the usual rows of 3?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 22:29:47 -0500

DA PAM 670-1 is the Guide to the Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and paragraph 20–6.a.(2) states that "The determination of whether three or four ribbons are worn in each row is based upon the size of the coat and the position of the lapel." That said, the only photos I can find of people switching from the standard 3-across rack to the "grande" version are General Officers, Command Sergeants Major, and other ultra-senior service members.

I've been considering going big for a while to help with my OCD regarding alignment (4 across is a nearly identical width to the pocket), and now with the addition of 2 more hero medals, I'm starting think that it makes sense to go wide before I end up with a CIB on my shoulder!

Curious to get the group's throughs. Is 4-across something that people have seen in the real (non-Pentagon) world? Does it give off an air of pretentiousness or elitism that one may want to avoid? Does it risk giving some CSM a turrets tick because one of these things is not like the other? Or is it something that literally nobody has ever or will ever put this much thought into again.

I say again... OCD.

Thanks for the insight!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2018 10:30 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 22:30:39 -0500

3 or 4? It’s up to the service member.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2018 10:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 22:36:42 -0500

I think you are on the right track. If the 4-wise rack is the same width as your pocket, then go with that.

To me, it depends on your size and build. If you’re small like me, the 3-wide rack is called for. If your broader-chested, I think the 3-wide mount would look...off. Therefore, go with the 4-row.

I interpreted the option as being the same concept as the approximations on the female uniform. It’s meant to accommodate for different sizes.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Feb 20 at 2018 10:53 PM

SSG Robert Webster — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 22:53:17 -0500

Everyday wear go with what makes you feel comfortable IAW AR 670-1 paragraph 22-2(b). Be aware that if you are wearing a foreign award or badge, just make sure that you follow the regulation, i.e. "If a foreign unit award is worn, personnel must wear a least on other U.S. decoration, service medal or unit award."

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Feb 20 at 2018 11:18 PM

SGT Christopher Hayden — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 23:18:24 -0500

I've never been a fan of the 4-stack. It looks messy to me having uneven rows that are off centered like in that example photo. 3 until you have less looks cleaner and my preferred look.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Feb 20 at 2018 11:58 PM

SFC William Farrell — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 23:58:26 -0500

I like the four across CPT Private RallyPoint Member. And I noticed you got tired of pounding the ground so now you pound the ground from the air! I like it. I flew gunner in Vietnam when I could.

Response by TSgt David L. made Feb 21 at 2018 12:10 AM

TSgt David L. — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:10:30 -0500

CPT Private RallyPoint Member. I like the 4 wide row since it keeps the stack lower and doesn't hide the top rows and badges under the flap of the collar as much. Of course that depends on the number you have, but I have the same OCD thing that drives me crazy.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Feb 21 at 2018 12:31 AM

MSG David Johnson — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:31:34 -0500

I'm a rather large individual, in my younger years I sported a 52" chest. Being, at that time, a high speed NCO who was a winner of several NCO boards I knew the refs concerning the wear of 3 or 4 ribbons across, so for one board a was preparing and had my jacket hung up when my PSG came in the room to check on me. I thought he was going to shit himself into a coronary when he saw I had a 4 wide double stack.
But I've also mostly seen GO's and senior E-9's that wear the 4 across, I feel it depends on the size of the uniform jacket, and placement, for females.
But units have their own SOP's when it comes to this as well I've found on a couple occasions.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2018 6:21 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 06:21:48 -0500

It’s all about presentation. As some other members already stated, going to rows of four makes a great deal of sense when the change reduces clutter on the uniform and creates a neater appearance. Once we start approaching a rack of 20 - 24 ribbons, the CIB/CAB/EIB/EFMB etc...end up just below the shoulder boards and we end up looking like a South American dictator. Ultimately, it’s the wearer’s call, but I think it serves a purpose.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2018 9:12 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 09:12:49 -0500

Have to agree with most on here. I'm 5'5" tall and if I went for the 4 across, I'd lose everything above the second row to my lapel. It's no secret that the majority of senior officers and NCO's are well above average height. The majority of them have a mass of awards and ribbons. It makes sense if you are 6'95" to have a 4 across rack, so your awards don't go over your shoulder.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2018 9:15 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 09:15:01 -0500

Hi think the vagueness serves a purpose. When you are a less experienced soldier you rock 3 across to fill the space. As you earn awards as a senior Service member you switch to 4 to avoid being a North Korean general

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2018 10:24 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:24:49 -0500

Once I got to 13 ribbons, I started aligning left and going four across. It minimizes covering things up under the lapel, and frankly looks better. This is less important for normal wear, but matters quite a bit for a DA photo, since you want the Promotion Board to see your accomplishments.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2018 10:37 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:37:25 -0500

Pfftt.. come back when you really have a space and alignment issue! :)

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Feb 21 at 2018 12:08 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 12:08:08 -0500

I think most folks should stick with the 3-across rows. If your chest measurement is large enough that the right-most ribbons on the 4-across aren't obscured by the lapel, then go for it if you want. Another reason would be a military member who had so many rows of ribbons that they pushed qualification badges actually up to the shoulder seam of the uniform jacket or under the shoulder loop on shirts, or Air Force or Marine class A uniforms.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 21 at 2018 2:30 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 14:30:53 -0500

Like the reg says you go 4 across till the lapel starts blocking them, then you go to 3 across, then 2 across, etc. The whole point is to not hide the ribbons behind the lapel.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Feb 21 at 2018 3:07 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:07:10 -0500

I wore my medals four across when I only had four medals; it looked better than wearing them with the lone medal on the second row. After I earned a few more, I wore my medals in rows of three. It really depends on personal preference and if you have the chest for it (if your chest is wide enough and has pockets wide enough to not look like an idiot with a wide rack). I would just say that you should use your best judgment; if someone thinks that you look like an idiot they will more than likely tell you.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Feb 21 at 2018 5:45 PM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 17:45:19 -0500

Strictly it is how it looks on one's uniform and if they have enough to do so. I know as I have x2 ASU jackets (8 pair of trousers - long story of expansion and downsizing) for my DA photos, one where I was a lil younger and cannot sit down in the jacket, the other where I can do PT in it. Each has a different lapel shape to it and each giving me more or less a challenge as to what looks right on the uniform. Last DA Photo was three across the bottom, however the photo for CW5 PSB was x2 rows of 4 on the bottom. Frankly the 4 across isn't the most friendly if you had to fold your arms forward, but standing up straight works fine. Truthfully, neither looks any better or worse, but it is how they are affected on the uniform, (more than 50% of a ribbon hidden by lapel), just my old man .02

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 21 at 2018 5:47 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 17:47:21 -0500

I think it's fine so long as the ribbon rack is large enough to justify it. Basically once badges start hitting your epaulettes, it's time to move to rows of 4...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 6:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Feb 2018 18:53:37 -0500

I thought the four across looked better and I hate the idea of fluffing up my awards. The four also just matches the pocket really well and makes aligning a badge very easy and if the badge is tall the lesser height of the rack means you will have to justify less and if you to justify, the badges(s) will be all the more visible.

Response by Lt Col John Rosenthal made Feb 23 at 2018 7:22 PM

Lt Col John Rosenthal — Fri, 23 Feb 2018 19:22:04 -0500

Consider the rules for weight, etc. Four ribbons might not fit right on a tailored uniform, which is why there is the choice of wearing all your ribbons or only the top one or two rows.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2018 8:10 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Feb 2018 20:10:09 -0500

IIf the uniform regulations prescribe it- then do so- just be advised- it will probably look stupid.
In the Marine Corps, there are a specific number of ribbons that must be attained before you can switch to a “4 Stack”. Once u hit 15 ribbons, u are authorized to do it. Otherwise- everyone must wear the traditional 3 stack, regardless of how it makes their uniform look.

Response by LCDR Arthur Whittum made Mar 12 at 2018 10:37 PM

LCDR Arthur Whittum — Mon, 12 Mar 2018 22:37:30 -0400

Some Coast Guard/Navy folks have so many awards that they only wear enough to complete the top two rows of three across. I don't recall seeing four across in the sea services. See what your awards and decs manual sez and go with that.

Response by CPT Derial Bivens made Jun 15 at 2018 12:08 PM

CPT Derial Bivens — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 12:08:22 -0400

The reason most people go to four-across is because they have so many that it is as you say: it's either that or wear your CIB on your shoulder. I'm my humble opinion, wearing four across with only two or three rows looks kinda silly. But that's just my opinion.

Response by CWO4 Frank Williams made Jun 17 at 2018 9:10 AM

CWO4 Frank Williams — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 09:10:29 -0400

When you have 26 separate awards it become necessary to go to rows of four in many cases. That is one reason senior enlisted and officers do it.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 17 at 2018 11:21 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 11:21:12 -0400

If you have a heavy rack, it can trim it up- any grizzled NCO will know the regs enough to not cause a fuss.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Jun 17 at 2018 8:41 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 20:41:29 -0400

Best way to solve that problem quit handing out bullshit medals for wiping their ass. Eliminate worthless awards, ban them!

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 14 at 2018 1:55 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 01:55:17 -0400

Once your ribbon rack starts pushing badges or awards under your shoulder epaulettes, it's time to move to rows of 4...

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Aug 14 at 2018 10:25 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 10:25:54 -0400

THREE SHOWS MORE AND LOOKS PROFESSIONAL,

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Aug 14 at 2018 11:35 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 11:35:20 -0400

I have only known a couple folks who wore the 4 ribbon rows and even then only a couple rows were 4 wide due to the lapel hiding ribbons. They were well and highly decorated, as they were Rangers and SF and had participated in most of the fun and games from Panama forward and for them the space gained in using 2 or three rows of 4 kept them from looking like north Korean generals.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 14 at 2018 1:34 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 01:34:08 -0400

I think it's a good idea if you have over 6 rows or more with a three bar (or 18+ individual ribbons). When you only have a handful of awards though it looks silly. If you're gonna do rows of 4, you should have a massive rack to justify it...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2018 9:27 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 09:27:47 -0500

So, for those who were following the headline news that is my ribbon rack, I finally bit the bullet and bought the 4-across model. The photo comparison below doesn’t do it justice (less hidden ribbons when worn vs. on a hanger), but I’m pretty darn happy with the shift that a wider rack affords to the badges above. No longer is my CIB maintaining proper cover and concealment! Bit a final decision by any means, still toying with the layout. Sad that the DA Pam calls for the bottom two rows to be the same width — this would make for a perfect 4-3-3-2-2 stack if that weren’t the case.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2019 1:24 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 01:24:35 -0500

I agree with most of the comments have read.

4 wide for larger framed males
4 wide as long as it does not go past the seem of the left breast pocket on either side
4 wide if you have a tall ribbon rack
4 wide if all of the above are true and you have skills badges
3 wide if none of the above are true and your skills badges are not too high on the left breast.

Above all, make it compliment your achievements without detracting from the uniform and the professional appearance you need.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2019 9:46 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Mar 2019 09:46:09 -0500

I rarely see ribbon racks four across. Usually the people that where four across are stacked with medals.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made May 27 at 2019 7:48 AM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Mon, 27 May 2019 07:48:19 -0400

When you wear your ribbons you are given the discretion of three or four per row to allow you to choose the display that more appropriately displays your awards. The pretentious selection would be to choose three per row so that you get the senior officer look of ribbons almost going over the shoulder to your back. Going four to a row to keep the rack lower, as long as all the ribbons are visible, is more conservative and looks better in my personal opinion.

Response by SSG Byron Howard Sr made May 27 at 2019 10:46 AM

SSG Byron Howard Sr — Mon, 27 May 2019 10:46:03 -0400

I wore mine 3 in a row because I think it looks neat keeps a sharp view of the uniform. Don't think I had a lot or any related to combat.

Response by SSG Byron Howard Sr made May 27 at 2019 10:49 AM

SSG Byron Howard Sr — Mon, 27 May 2019 10:49:44 -0400

Nothing like a COB continued on back. Had a 1st SGT he had a CIB with a wreath and 2 stars. I was 11B this was 1975. He had so many ribbons he could not wear them all. I was an inprest E2.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2019 9:17 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 May 2019 09:17:47 -0400

This is interesting, I’ve never considered the rows of four until you mentioned it. I’ll have to find a rack and see what it looks like. One of the things I like about the row of four is the uniformity above the pocket it provides, removing that weird gap on each side of the pocket seam.
Now if they could only fix the cheap quality of the uniform. The pocket on mine becomes angled towards the edge making the whole rack look tilted.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2019 11:42 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 23:42:40 -0400

Figure it was worth closing out this thread. I did end up going 4 across (despite the old fashioned police around here) because it made the most sense for my body type, ribbon & medal mix, and uniform overall. NOT recommended for everyone, but I couldn't be more happy with the results. Never mind that I look like I need a Snickers bar in this photo... I've finally found my lost CIB!

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Mar 1 at 2020 1:31 AM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Sun, 01 Mar 2020 01:31:26 -0500

Every method of “looking up the regs” leads to vagueness, “authorized given a substantial amount of total awards”.

I have deduced “substantial” to mean in the ballpark of 18.

I admit this is a bit “winging it”...but the stack should not appear much taller than it is wide. Ive seen some USAF members keeping things 3 wide and have enough that the seniormost awards are too high up on the shoulder, which makes the most senior least visable.

I fully disclose that I am NOT citing regs.

But IMHO Id say once you have Award #19-21, going 4 wide just looks better, and by better, I do not mean boastful, but just a more polished representation.

All of that said...once you reach 18 or so, chances are you have some impressives which the asshat considering calling you out doesn’t have themselves.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2020 6:08 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Jun 2020 06:08:50 -0400

4 to a row is the way.
If you can do 4 you should do 4

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Oct 15 at 2020 4:13 PM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Thu, 15 Oct 2020 16:13:50 -0400

I'm a "big boy," & my jacket can tastefully accomadate a row of 4. Just saying, that would be my own logic table.