What is it that keeps some of you from leaving the military?

2018-08-24T03:26:17-04:00

Hey Rallypoint,

Long time no see. I just got done with my second tour, and I’m finally coming up on my ETS date from the reserve this upcoming March. During my terminal leave, I got to visit good friends and family, eat stupidly good food and drink some stupidly good alcohol (Uber was always involved, full disclaimer), and go on a really awesome month long trip to Iceland, Scotland, and Spain. In short, I got to do all the things that traditionally make soldiers realize how good life is outside of the military, and make them leave before retirement.

I’m due to ETS this upcoming March at what will be my 9 year anniversary, which is just under the “crap or get off the pot” marker. I came away from this last deployment with a profound sense of bitterness with the military, and particularly the kind of low-grade, self-serving, spineless individuals that seem to be infesting the ranks at all echelons. My personal situation is that I live a phenomenal life in Phoenix: I make a solid amount of money working for a bank, have a great network of actual friends, and generally get to travel two to three times a year for vacation. I keep telling myself that I’ve got it *really damned good*, and that I should just get out while I can.

I was lucky that USERRA exists, and I still have a great job that’s 100% supportive of my secondary career, and that my support network is still here. I don’t know why I keep thinking about reenlistment, in spite of everything that happened. I’m not 100% physically, and emotionally/spiritually, I’m probably not at full capacity either, but I love the job. I know that I’m going to miss a lot of my fellow NCOs, many of whom trained me when I enlisted eight years ago.

I guess my end questions are for the lifers. How do you keep doing it? When you have to support something that you find spiritually or morally incongruent with your own viewpoints, what is it that keeps you going? Do you ever regret not getting out and being a regular person? At what point is it okay to walk away?

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Aug 24 at 2018 3:38 AM

2018-08-24T03:38:27-04:00

Walk away when it feels right. I got fed up after 6 years active duty. Got a good job in civilian sector. Four years later joined the National Guard, then became fulltime Guard. Just do what you think is in your best interests.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 24 at 2018 5:22 AM

2018-08-24T05:22:12-04:00

ETS, you clearly do not wish to Soldier anymore. Thank you for your service.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2018 5:33 AM

2018-08-24T05:33:52-04:00

Get out. Take a couple years off. If you miss it, go back in. You might find that you want to try a different branch.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Aug 24 at 2018 5:49 AM

2018-08-24T05:49:15-04:00

For what I understand on your last paragraph you already made a desicion. There is nothing wrong on ETSing after completing your time. A full military career takes a lot from your both physically and emotionally. I got out and went to college and 3years later was back in after experiencing that the military life was definitely for me; but I wouldn’t know without that short break in service.

Response by 1SG Timothy Trewin made Aug 24 at 2018 8:18 AM

2018-08-24T08:18:56-04:00

The things is that everyone's perspective is different. I laugh at the term "lifer" as that could be referred to anyone who works for a prolonged period of time anywhere. I imagine if you stay at your employer long enough you too will be a "lifer". Only in the military is that somehow derogatory. There are many benefits to a career and whatever type of person you meet in the military you will meet similar in the private sector. It is good to see that you are doing well. Reasons for myself staying in is the pay and benefits, stability, and a general like for what I do. Everything you currently have available to you now I will as well in time. The difference is I still have a retirement to fall back on with the satisfaction of a successful career in the military. Granted it is not for everyone and for those who choose to move on I do wish them the health, wealth, and success that they seek. I would say that this is a career choice that if you are not 100% committed to then it is best to walk away.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Aug 24 at 2018 9:05 AM

2018-08-24T09:05:03-04:00

Sound like you are doing well with your civilian life and by your answer, you already made a decision and just want confirmation from us. I tend to take offense when I used hear soldiers say, ‘I can’t wait to get out,’ or refer me as a ‘lifer.’ Those can be misinterpreted as “prison” terms and I CERTAINLY was not in prison and I WAS a ‘regular person’ as you put it. For me, I enlisted because I was unemployed and uneducated. As life would have it, twenty-five years later, I ended up unemployed (I have employment now) and a Master’s Degree. The military is what you make it and some people are just not made for the military. Good luck.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Aug 24 at 2018 10:48 AM

2018-08-24T10:48:39-04:00

Apparently in your opinion there is something spiritually or morally wrong with the Military and anyone who decides to go past the “crap or get off the pot” point is not a regular person. Just the question is sort of insulting. Nothing kept me from getting out, things kept me from staying in longer. Since the Military is obviously not for you, you should just get out and not try to justify it by making it appear you are making the smart choice and those that do dedicate their lives to the Military are somehow abnormal. If this was a conversation with a bunch of guys siting around at a range or someplace I would laugh and tell you it's ok that you do not like the Military, get the heck out, and just to cover all the bases I might throw in a get fu****.

Response by MCPO Michael Patterson made Aug 24 at 2018 12:48 PM

2018-08-24T12:48:51-04:00

It's a personal choice weather it be patriotism, fullfilment or the adventure. Not everyone is cut for prolonged military service (I did 30 years), you have to decide for yourself and live with your decision. You can always re-enlist if you so desire. Thank you for your service and best of luck in civilian life.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2018 1:26 PM

2018-08-24T13:26:52-04:00

At this point I've got 8 years left until I'm eligible for the legacy retirement. I may do another 14 after that to get me to 62, I may not.

Response by SGT Larry Reed made Aug 24 at 2018 3:25 PM

2018-08-24T15:25:48-04:00

i did my four years as an infantryman. I loved my training, but could not see doing this for twenty years. I would have liked to talk to a recruiter about another MOS also I regret getting out of the reserves.

Response by SFC Marc W. made Aug 24 at 2018 3:49 PM

2018-08-24T15:49:32-04:00

Mostly just habit.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2018 4:54 PM

2018-08-24T16:54:56-04:00

My daughter - she was born with a genetic kidney disorder that we didn't find out about until she was six weeks old. She's four now. She had a kidney transplant but it isn't a cure. There is no cure for what she has that just makes her life more manageable and there's always the chance she might need another one someday.

But I have six years left until 20. I have to make it to 20. TRICARE can be a pain sometimes but I haven't paid one hospital bill yet and then I've only had a few copays because she gets Medicaid too. I do what I have to do to take care of her because I'm the only parent she has - her dad has ultimately been nothing more than a sperm donor and is in jail and probably (hopefully) there for awhile. If she hadn't had this happen (it's rare and genetic both parents have to have the gene), I'd have been out two years ago instead of reenlisting.

Response by SSG Steven Borders made Aug 24 at 2018 5:41 PM

2018-08-24T17:41:29-04:00

For me, I keep coming back to soldiers. I take pride in mentoring and seeing them succeeded. When I left active duty I was just freshly pinned E5, I kept looking at my ASU's and thinking that I can't let that go to waste. I am now in the reserves and I love it. I didn't think I would, but really I love helping soldiers. That is one of the things that drives me every time I drill.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Aug 24 at 2018 5:49 PM

2018-08-24T17:49:29-04:00

It comes down to yourself and what you want. If you're joining the military for money, you're a damn fool (not your personally, but in general). To put up with a shit ton of BS day in day out, effective and ineffective leaders, command climates that drive you insane, only to come back for thirds, there is a draw to this, a love of it, a strength that comes with knowing not everyone can do what you're doing.

The military is the ultimate love/hate experience. After awhile, it becomes second nature to you, and while you're being stomped on, kicked when down, you find that one moment that makes all that worth it. When you turn a shitbag around and next thing you know, that shitbag outranks you, and you see the results (even without acknowledgement), you have to smile inside. You've finally realizes it's not about you anymore. You want that same feeling inside day in and day out.

I was once like you. I questioned why folks would do more than 10 or 20. Until I got close and saw things that could be done by seasoned Soldiers. I thought 30yr SHM/CSM's were insane (some actually are), but they usually help at a higher level and hopefully with the 1SG guide you to where it'll be your turn. I was a shitbag for years on end. I've faced Art15, and chapters, but somewhere my NCO's saw something, and it was tough love, sometimes even wanting to fight physically with them, but they were working to turn the one around. I was that one. One day later on, I was that ONE, busting his ass to save another ONE.

I didn't enlist for the money. I didn't enlist for the college. I enlisted because I knew from a very young age this is what I wanted to do. I stayed in because there was noting I wanted to do more. Nothing since has given me the satisfaction of what I had while in. Nothing compares, even when I hear folks talk about brother and sisterhoods in the civilian world. I hang with my people because I understand them, and they me. We all wore green. All got yelled at, smoked stupid, was voluntold for dumb shit (hated post clean up), and can laugh about it. I know without a doubt I'd do it again for the exact same reasons. I want money, but don't need it. I need to finish my education, doesn't mean I want to. I enjoy thinking I've seen it all just to have my head blown open when a Solder tells me "Sarn't I got a problem", and you put your head in your hands, shake it, can't believe it, and once again, you're making wedding cakes out of MRE bread. You're doing what you love the most, with those who you'd spend your last second kicking their asses, give your life for, and give them hugs. I'd definitely do it all again.

BTW I would do it for free if I could get it in my contract that unless they pay me extra, I cannot be given the "Magic Bullet" on a 4856. It wasn't fun the first time when I became the poster child for it, and I'd prefer not to become that again.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2018 10:47 PM

2018-08-24T22:47:36-04:00

I still do it 25 years in because I love it, I am f***ing amazing at my job, and I get immense fulfillment in training Soldiers.

Make no mistake, service has a cost. I am a career Reserve Soldier who has deployed several times thanks to GWOT, and done a lot of other missions along the way. It cost me an 18 year marriage - undoubtedly a casualty of my last trip to Africa. It cost me much of the "fun times" with my kids; last month marked the tipping point where I have officially crossed the tipping point where I have been home over half my (almost 13 year old) daughter's life. That cost stares me in the face every time parenting challenges where I don't know what to do come up.

It has taxed and frayed my body, and bent but not broken my mind.
But I would do it all again.
Because I made a difference to so many people. Ours, theirs, and many others I will never know. I have done a lot I am proud of, some things not so much, but my single proudest accomplishment is that as of today, 11 of my former Soldiers have gone on to be First Sergeants themselves.
Several among them I still count as friends, and think highly enough of to seek out and give and accept advice.

There are many things in service to this great nation that we get the privilege to do. But what makes it all worthwhile to me is the undisputable knowledge that I made a difference.

If that is something that you still have the heart to do, stay in.
If not, ETS with your head held high that you did your part, and I am grateful that you gave 9 years of your life to make this nation safer for my children and yours.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2018 11:12 PM

2018-08-24T23:12:59-04:00

Don’t take this personal but, what I’m basically hearing is your life was so good before the military; why did you join then? Or why didn’t you switch to active duty? Soliders who join with that mentally don’t make their full potential (In my opinion). Most of us lifers joined cause we had a bigger calling, most of us like the minimum for 20 years. Others go longer, No one knows when their going to retire untill the no longer can do it. Not that they don’t love the military but just mentally not feeling it anymore. I joined cause I wanted to “travel the world and make money”.

Response by SFC David Xanten made Aug 24 at 2018 11:21 PM

2018-08-24T23:21:24-04:00

The Military is not for everyone. That being said, if you can’t handle it or you think it’s no longer for you then leave. It will still be there when you’re gone and you just might change your mind. There is more opportunity in the Service then most other occupations but it is your choice. Good luck and I wish you well.

Response by PO1 Raymond Fochler made Aug 25 at 2018 10:10 AM

2018-08-25T10:10:52-04:00

SGT Bradley, i discovered after my 6 years of active duty that the military is more of a relationship than a job. If the squeeze isn't worth the juice than yes maybe your time is up. And SGT thats ok. Those of us who've been out more than 10 years do miss some things about our time in, we miss the brotherhood mostly. But after 9 years you've earned the right to live in peace. Enjoy your life after service, and with our thanks.

Btw i graduated from Buena HS class of '97

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 25 at 2018 12:41 PM

2018-08-25T12:41:21-04:00

For my 20+yrs it was my troops, the system often sucked and periodically the oxygen thieves abounded. But I always ran into enough good officers to ignore the spineless ones, and I had great troops.

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Aug 26 at 2018 9:13 PM

2018-08-26T21:13:19-04:00

Get out....by what you have written you're heart isn't in it.

If you were active duty I'd tell you to suck it up for 11 more years just for the retirement, educational, medical and health benefits. There is life after you retire from the Army and @ 20 years service you're still a young man. If you plan both financially and get an education while in the military you should have no issues succeeding in civilian life. Best of luck to you and thank you for you're service.