What is missing in today's military that was effective a long time ago?

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 19:04:51 -0400

The reason why I'm posting this is I notice how we became more distanced from each-other. First, the TV and video games, then the internet, and now the smart phones. Go anywhere around the base where the people just sit and wait. At least half of them have cell, I mean, smart phones out. The other half is watching TV or doing paperwork.

Conversations are becoming more superficial or inappropriate in some instances. Subjects are self-centered and what one wants or is getting in the near-future. Higher-ups are increasingly trash-talking on liberty and are often not viewed as someone to look up to.

What other elements do you notice that were there in the 'good ol days' that would do us some justice? That includes equipment, uniform articles, training, or other intangible elements

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2014 7:31 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 19:31:13 -0400

Wall to wall counseling haha.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2014 7:40 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 19:40:49 -0400

Terror!!! Fear of the enemy and some elements of command instilled dependence on each other, willingness to sacrifice, lifelong friendships, and intense comradery.

We didn't distance ourselves from terror by disassociating it all into some game.

Psychological gamesmanship / technology make it all easy to disassociate now.

Response by TSgt Terry Hudson made Aug 13 at 2014 8:16 PM

TSgt Terry Hudson — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:16:49 -0400

RESPECT! Across the board I've seen young service members disrespect our superiors! It's doesn't matter if they are in the same branch! If you're an E4 and they're an E6 they outrank you!

Response by PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner made Aug 13 at 2014 8:55 PM

PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:55:46 -0400

First and foremost I would have to say Respect!! I saw this even before I left the Navy, it used to mean something to be a Petty Officer, or Chief Petty Officer (NCO or Sr NCO) now the kids come in they talk to you like you are a piece of crap. Not saying they are this way but a good majority of them. The military want the smarter people (people who get 50 or better on the ASVAB) but sometimes the guy who does not do so well on the test is going to be your most respectful and most dedicated Sailor or Soldier. Young people today have a need to know!! What I mean by this they are more educated and rather than take the order given and execute it they need to know why!! And then they always have a better way!! I see this in the civilian sector too, even at the pretzel store I manage.

Response by COL Randall C. made Aug 13 at 2014 10:22 PM

COL Randall C. — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:22:20 -0400

As TSgt Terry Hudson and PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner stated, it is respect. Every one of our Services embrace the values of loyalty, duty, selfless service, honor, integrity, personal courage and respect. I see respect as a fundamental basis of all the other attributes and without it, they suffer.

Respect for our selves, respect for our brethren, respect for our unit, respect for our leaders, and most importantly - respect for our country

Without respect for ourselves and others, we don't hold to standards of conduct and honor and integrity fall by the wayside.

Without respect for the unit and leaders, we don't put the needs of the organization above our own desires and loyalty falls by the wayside.

Without respect for our country, none of the others matter and any reason for selfless service or duty disappear.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Aug 14 at 2014 1:33 AM

SGT Suraj Dave — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 01:33:58 -0400

Its not what's missing, its what has been added. Political Correctness is more important in todays Army then actual combat.

The day I saw a combat patrol cancelled for an E.O. Brief on my FOB, I had a hard time believing this is the same Army that liberated Nazi Germany.

Response by CPL Karina Franco-rey made Aug 14 at 2014 1:46 AM

CPL Karina Franco-rey — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 01:46:12 -0400

It seems as we evolve and technology grows limitless, generations are subtle to new threats and Innovation. Attention to personal conversation, touch, and caring are taking new measures.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2014 7:19 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 07:19:07 -0400

SN Private RallyPoint Member, yeah, WTF with iPads in boot camp? Tell me more, I'm curious. Can you make a Skype call back home then too? Or play angry birds??

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Aug 14 at 2014 7:24 AM

PFC Zanie Young — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 07:24:15 -0400

From what I seen lately, is the unwillingness to serve our country, in other words, desertion when a war is going on. We should tighten up on who we let into the military. Character goes a long way to successful career in the military. There was a time when we followed orders and kept our feelings to ourselves. Now we have members who want to jump ship when things go haywire. Mind you, I am speaking of only a few, not everyone.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Aug 14 at 2014 11:48 AM

SGT Richard H. — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:48:09 -0400

Me. Final Answer.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Aug 14 at 2014 10:15 PM

SSG Laureano Pabon — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 22:15:53 -0400

I would say : Communications.
In my time we communicated with each other. We didn't have the internet (every one can use) to search for information we had books, tape recorders, 8 track tapes. But with all that it was communications.
It's really hard to draw conclusions with out actually being present and render an honest reply to your question, but my answer is Communications is what's missing. I figured that if todays military is as you stated, I can only imagine what it will be like 20 or 30 years from now.

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made Aug 15 at 2014 4:27 AM

MAJ Haris Balcinovic — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 04:27:02 -0400

Discipline and Respect - across the board, all branches (active, reserve and guard components). It's almost unbearable to watch - and as a prior NCO it pains me to not be able to simply chew out somebody like we used to do. I understand that the military has diversified greatly in last decade and we're "kindler, gentler" military, but the level of disrespect and lack of discipline is astounding.
NCOs are trying too hard to be friends instead of NCOs. Please don't take my response out of context - obviously there are squared away units and service memebers out there (hats off to the Marines, they're trying to hold up, but even they're getting a bit unruly).
We're supposed to be the most professional military in the world - and I tell you right now we're severely lacking on the professional piece.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 11:51 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 11:51:36 -0400

Discipline.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 15 at 2014 1:29 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:29:59 -0400

A REAL war to fight and a REAL enemy to fight against. A war with clear objectives a clear end state and a clear exit strategy. The "war" on terrorism and the invasion of Iraq are as vague as vague can get and the only Americans standing behind it are those that are cashing in on it. The Taliban is a bunch of hit and run cowards performing unspeakable acts of terrorism against mainly civilian populations. Bring back the Russkies!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 7:20 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 19:20:27 -0400

DISCIPLINE and a reluctance to uphold standards.....

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Aug 16 at 2014 1:25 PM

GySgt William Hardy — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 13:25:09 -0400

It's not the military as much as the military must follow the civilian lead. The worst of it is political correctness. Chesty, Patton, and all the others would do just fine. They didn't become the leaders they were because they couldn't adapt. I do think they would think it was chicken $#!t, and they have been a bit of hot water like some of our leaders are today, but overall, they would do just fine. What you are talking about Dronzin is typical across the USA in all communities. It a society thing not a military thing. But consider this...why does the Marine Corps seem to get away with more? What are they doing to maintain a degree of discipline? Ask yourself why the SF of the Army does the same as well as other special units like the Seals? Some of these things need to be put into practice across the board. We are military and not civilians so there should be a different standard. Of course this is just IMO.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Aug 17 at 2014 6:36 AM

Sgt Packy Flickinger — Sun, 17 Aug 2014 06:36:59 -0400

Commander-in-Chief, for the short answer.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2014 9:38 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Aug 2014 09:38:38 -0400

From my foxhole we are a less capable military then we were 20 years ago. And there is too much political correctness going on. We are headed back to the zero-defects mentality where people are fearful that if they slip up their careers are over. Heck, we are giving pink slips to deployed soldiers!!!???

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Aug 17 at 2014 11:22 AM

PFC Eric Minchey — Sun, 17 Aug 2014 11:22:37 -0400

Leaders that lead from the front instead of ordering from the rear and have their command posts on the front lines instead of in the rear the gear.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUHnL6R39VM

Gettysburg: Lewis Armistead Rallies the Division

A dramatic scene in the movie Gettysburg, where during the battle of Pickett's Charge, General Lewis Armistead rallies the remaining forces of The Confederac...

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Aug 17 at 2014 11:53 AM

Cpl Dennis F. — Sun, 17 Aug 2014 11:53:55 -0400

I recently had the opportunity to visit P.I. as a VIP and see some training and a graduation. I was struck dumb! No mess duty (builds character) and the contractors food was crap with dirty mess hall. Non-lethal hand to hand. What!!!! WTF for? Grad class had multiple PFCs and L/Cpls ('66 had two PFCs, best over all and best shooter). I was told they have college so we have to give them something. What happened to every marine a rifleman? What happens when a 2 year accountant SSgt gets called to the wire to command snuffies???? Dead Marines.

I recall one of my DIs that thumped me a few times, telling me that I was squared away, thus why he hammered me, "I knew better!" He was right.

Today's PC logic escapes me.

What the hell have they done to my Marine Corps?

Response by CPO Jon Campbell made Aug 17 at 2014 3:12 PM

CPO Jon Campbell — Sun, 17 Aug 2014 15:12:11 -0400

While a lot of people have said that respect is missing now, I have a different persective. When I joined the Resetve in 1988, reservists were treated like dirt and commonly referred to as 'f-ing reserves.' Today, reservists enjoy a much higher level of respect both from active duty and in the civilian world.
Some other things that have changed are long lines to use pay phones and time limits on pay phone use. Real potatoes that have to be peeled seem to have disappeared along with the standard mess cook jobs that every enlisted person had to do as an E2. Detex watchstations and clocks have disappeared, and been replaced by cameras everywhere. Beer machines are gone. Many e-clubs are gone. Smoking has been relegated to out door shacks. End of the World scenerio orders you carried in your wallet are gone (those were pre issued orders for if the Soviets attacked us first.) SOS is no longer made with beef, but now has sausage bits instead.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2014 10:08 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Aug 2014 22:08:03 -0400

To me I see that a lot of the problems in our Army today could be fixed if more of our force would live the Army Values. When I entered the Army I was taught right away about the Army Values. The LDRSHIP acronym then was more than just a group of posters lining the walls in your company area, it was and still is to some, the way to live your life. The Army Values are a great set of morals to live and conduct yourself by. Granted everyone is raised differently and who's to say one way is better than another so our predecessors came up with this set of values that could be taught to those joining our Army. Today I see a lot of Soldiers who lack many of these values but to me it is to be expected because they are sent to us looking for knowledge, and not only what you find in lesson plans. These Soldiers will be Leaders one day whether in our Army or even out in the civilian sector so it is up to their Leaders and Seniors to ensure they receive more than just a textbook lesson but also life lessons as well. Some may say that it takes too much time to try and teach Soldiers how to do their job and a way to live their lives. One of the easiest ways I find to accomplish this is to be the example, or practice what you preach. I see that a lot of the times this type of teaching gains positive results, especially with the younger Soldiers. It doesn't take long to talk to a group of Soldiers about things you've done and how it impacted those around you. It's shocking to me when I see that there are many Leaders out there that have forgotten about the Army Values and what they mean. I see a lot of selfishness and negativity towards others and usually if there isn't anything that is going to benefit them in some way they will usually not be willing to help. I just feel if our NCO corps and other Leaders set the standards and lived the Army Values that it would become the norm and most of the issues that plague our Army today will be a thing of the past. If you stay positive and keep at it others will see that is important and if you reach only one then at least you have started a path that can be spread to another and another. These are just my thoughts on this topic but if they help even one reader then I hope that person will pay it forward.
Thank you,
V/R
SSG Espinosa

Response by SGT James Elphick made May 28 at 2015 1:28 PM

SGT James Elphick — Thu, 28 May 2015 13:28:32 -0400

One word - Training

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 1:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 13:28:47 -0400

Energy! I see a lot of burned out Soldiers!

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made May 28 at 2015 1:28 PM

1LT Nick Kidwell — Thu, 28 May 2015 13:28:56 -0400

I think post-9/11 and post-OIF/OEF, we have far too much focus on Islamic extremist threats and not enough on conventional armies and the threats they continue to pose.