What is the appropriate way to handle a 1SG damaging my phone?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 May 2019 08:28:25 -0400

I was at a change of command formation and my phone went off due to an alarm I forgot i set. The app made me answer math questions to turn it off and I was panicking. My PSG took my phone to turn the alarm, but 1sgt took it and threw it the other direction. The whole battalion knows what happen and not going to lie it was funny. My phone did have a damaged screen but it was still 100% functional till I got it back from another soldier who found it. The phone worked for a day and then just completely stopped working. I’ve been told to file a report for him to replace the screen and the back of the phone, but I’m not sure how I should go about it.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made May 24 at 2019 8:39 AM

LTC Kevin B. — Fri, 24 May 2019 08:39:20 -0400

I'd take it straight up the Chain of Command first, to give your 1SG an opportunity to do the right thing (and pay for the repairs) without having to take it outside of the unit. If the Chain of Command isn't responsive, I would recommend going to Legal, the IG, and/or the Provost Marshal. If your description of the events is accurate (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), your 1SG damaged private property. Seems fairly clear cut. Certainly the situation could have been handled better, by everyone involved. However, that doesn't change the fact that your 1SG purposely damaged private property.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made May 24 at 2019 9:53 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Fri, 24 May 2019 09:53:19 -0400

What a fascinating situation. Obviously one that I never encountered during my active duty (back when the Earth was without form and we fought with sticks and stones). Thus, I can only speculate. It seems that others have already offered good advice so I'll just leave it at this... Maybe this is just a teaching moment. Imagine forgetting to silence you phone during an actual combat mission and it "rings" when you're sneaking up on hostiles. As a platoon leader I'd take responsibility for not checking to make sure everyone's phone was silenced or left behind, and I'd expect my platoon sergeant to take immediate action to "help" you silence it. As for further actions, keep in mind "battles won, wars lost".

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 24 at 2019 9:56 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Fri, 24 May 2019 09:56:14 -0400

Your a jerk

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made May 24 at 2019 10:42 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Fri, 24 May 2019 10:42:52 -0400

Pretty simple answers.....
-Don't bring your phone to ceremonies, (mine stayed in the car) If there's an emergency someone will find you GUR-ON-TEED.
-Don't put ridiculously long or complex passwords on them. You won't remember what they are in an emergency.
-Get an otter box for your phone if you can't achieve one or two above so it has survivability when the 1SG launches it.
- Start the whine line up through the NCO support channel or COC until you find someone that doesn't think..... Gee sounds like something I'd have done.

Top should have just put the phone in his pocket and walked off the field and had you do front, back, go's after the ceremony. But hey, bet you don't do that again.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made May 24 at 2019 10:51 AM

SSG Carlos Madden — Fri, 24 May 2019 10:51:16 -0400

Honestly, try to work with your squad leader to help resolve this. It's his/her responsibility to help you take care of these types of issues and having an NCO advocate for you in front of the 1SG is going to be much better than going at it alone.

Response by SrA James Cannon made May 24 at 2019 11:16 AM

SrA James Cannon — Fri, 24 May 2019 11:16:29 -0400

You can let some of these other folks set you up for failure, or you can listen to this. Leave it alone. Let sleeping dogs lie. Go buy another phone and call this a lesson learned. Otherwise, you might end up getting the First Sergeant to have to pay for your phone, but the payback that will rain down on you from the rest of the unit will not be worth it.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2019 11:34 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 May 2019 11:34:52 -0400

I’m sorry that your personal property was destroyed. As others have mentioned, you are in a precarious situation. You are 100% within your rights to seek compensation for someone willfully damaging your property. On the other hand, you’re in the Army and leaders like this sometimes hide behind their rank when deep down they know they were wrong. Reprisals are certainly a possibility.

If I were in your situation, I’d use my NCO support channel to talk with my 1SG. I would explain, calmly, that after the incident my phone no longer works and I have no other means of communicating with my leadership outside of work or my family. My gut feeling is that your 1SG’s intention wasn’t to break your phone (although throwing someone’s phone and expecting it not to break is foolish) and he will likely pay for the damages/replace it as destroying a subordinates personal property is not a good look. Once again, reprisal is a possibility but some fights are worth fighting.

Response by Sgt John Steinmeier made May 24 at 2019 12:00 PM

Sgt John Steinmeier — Fri, 24 May 2019 12:00:30 -0400

21st Century soldier problem.
I am actually surprised about some of the comments, such as take it up with Legal. Private does what Privates do...screws up. Evil Platoon Sergeant goes nuclear and now lawyers are needed.
I say chalk it up to a military life lesson and leave the new cell phone behind for future formations.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made May 24 at 2019 12:24 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Fri, 24 May 2019 12:24:03 -0400

This is one of those classic "No win" situations. Sure, you could run the issue up the flag pole of the CoC. You could involve legal (Povost Marshal, Legal Office, etc) and have the 1SG held accountable under Wilful Vandalism of Personal Property laws. After all that, you'd most likely have a target on your back for your remaining time in that Battalion. You'd likely catch every crap detail that came down and it would be all but impossible to prove they were doing it as retaliation.

My suggestion is to use this as a valuable learning experience. Moving forward, make sure your phone is powered off, or just leave it in your vehicle. You can't use it in formation anyway so don't set yourself up for failure. Hopefully you were savvy enough to have a protection plan for the devise. Pay the deductible, get a new phone, and continue mission.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2019 12:57 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 May 2019 12:57:09 -0400

If you were in the formation you should not have had a cell phone on your person, period. Knowing that you couldn't possibly answer it, what purpose would it serve? The 1st Sgt had no right to damage it, but you were the cause, assuming you were in ranks. Use COC tactfully and tread lightly toward restitution. My 2 cents worth.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 24 at 2019 2:00 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 24 May 2019 14:00:31 -0400

Wow...I'm obviously not making light of that one, I just never heard one quite like that before...honestly, I don't have a clue how to handle something like that, certainly, I was just totally floored by your description...wow....

Response by Sgt C Vail made May 25 at 2019 12:10 AM

Sgt C Vail — Sat, 25 May 2019 00:10:41 -0400

Go buy a new phone and don’t bring it to formation. You are lucky that your platoon sgt or squad leader didn’t have you doing PT in the laundry room with all the dryers going in MOPP 4 after that.

Response by PO2 Orlando Sims, MPA made May 25 at 2019 2:52 AM

PO2 Orlando Sims, MPA — Sat, 25 May 2019 02:52:40 -0400

The best bet is to have a one on one conversation with the 1SG. Sometimes situations maybe handled right then and there depending if the other person is a reasonable person. If you give the offending person a chance to rectify the situation, then the person may respect you more. Just make sure you own up to your mistake and be tactful on how you talk to the 1SG.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2019 10:02 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 May 2019 10:02:31 -0400

My answer is not printable. However, the responsibility belongs to whom in this case?

Response by COL Gary Gresh made May 25 at 2019 3:24 PM

COL Gary Gresh — Sat, 25 May 2019 15:24:18 -0400

Take to the chain of command. Don’t whine don’t complain. Just ask for the 1st sgt make it right. He acted inappropriately for today’s army. He should have just taken the phone shut it off and given it back to you later. Poor leadership example on his part. Give him a chAnce to make it right. Don’t be mad or belligerent. You are in the right here. I’m confident that the COC will make this right.

Response by PV2 Bob Ondown made May 26 at 2019 12:50 PM

PV2 Bob Ondown — Sun, 26 May 2019 12:50:37 -0400

1SG was wrong. Use chain of command to rectumfy the issue.
Destroying personal property is a NO GO.
I would have you do pushups, details, guard duty, CQ...
Just keep your cool and be respectful.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made May 30 at 2019 8:28 AM

MSG Gary Eckert — Thu, 30 May 2019 08:28:00 -0400

This is a tough one. Destruction of personal property is a violation of the UCMJ; however, at minimum having your phone in the formation probably violated a lawful order so pushing the issue with you first sergeant might get your phone replaced and also have the unintended consequence of having someone take action against you for violating that order. If you are an otherwise STRAC soldier whose service is valued by the Chain of Command, you should request to see the Commander/1SG using their open door policy and see whether the 1SG is willing to repair the phone....that is probably your best route. If you are an on the fence soldier where the Chain of Command can't wait for your ETS you might have to take this as one of life's expensive lessons.
That being said, I would be remiss if I didn't at least tell that it might be possible you could file a claim for the repair costs using a DD Form 1842. Depending on the amount of the claim, this could create quite the headache since anything more than $100 will probably result in an investigation to hold the 1SG pecuniary liable. This route takes you through the JAGs claims section.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2019 6:38 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 May 2019 18:38:03 -0400

What’s more distracting, the phone going off or the 1SG wailing it across the parade field?

You screwed up, you know you screwed up, but it wasn’t intentional and I’m sure you won’t do it again.

The 1SG exhibited unprofessional behavior not just by throwing the phone, but by taking it way from your platoon sergeant who was attempting to rectify the situation.

Politely, respectfully, take it up through your NCO support channel. He didn’t break a coffee cup, he broke something that probably cost several hundred dollars. He doesn’t need UCMJ, he doesn’t need to apologize in front of the company, he just needs to make it right for you.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jun 9 at 2019 7:17 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 19:17:31 -0400

Article 93 - Cruelty and maltreatment
Article 109 - Property other than military property of the United States—waste, spoilage, or destruction
Article 117 - Provoking speeches or gestures
Article 128 - Assault

There may be conduct unbecoming too.

All of the above are UCMJ articles that yoru 1sg canbe charged with.

Taking your phone is "tantamount" to a touch, and is considered, legally assault.

It is private property purchased by you, and as such he has no right to take it form you and break it. One could make the argument that confiscating it until the formation was over is okay, but not breaking the phone. Even though he out ranks you, you still deserve respect, and he is not allowed to provoke you by breaking your phone. And finally the maltreatment, tin the modern army you are not allowed to abuse soldiers, that is why their are regulations that manage physical punishment like smoking soldiers. The army spends lot of money to train you they don't need some fucking stupid NCO breaking that investment.

Now how i would handle this is simple:

Step one, i would talk to my 1SG directly and ASK him nice to replace my phone. If he refused then i would go to my PSG, and ask him to intercede, if that failed i would go to my SGM and ask him to intercede, if that failed, I would go to the CO, and BN commander, If that failed i would go to the IG and CID BOTH, and once i got to this point I would make sure that i had told everyone from my congressman (both federal and state), my senator (Both federal and state), the local newspaper, my hometown news real and anyone else i could get to listen what happened and how my BN is fucking over soldiers. The minute you make it a public problem SHIT GETS FIXED.

Somewhere along the way any reasonable person would pull the first sergeant over and say, "Look we can court martial the shit out of you, or you can pay the 700 dollars and be done with it; Don't fucking touch soldiers anymore".

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Jun 15 at 2019 5:05 PM

LTC Ken Connolly — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 17:05:49 -0400

There may not be much you can nor want to do. Hope you had insurance on the phone. Use this situation it as an object lesson to perhaps for the next time leave your phone in your locker or car glove compartment during any formation.

Response by SP6 Andrew Gonci made Jun 22 at 2019 11:00 PM

SP6 Andrew Gonci — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 23:00:29 -0400

the sgt had no right to take the phone and throw it go to the co and report his ass

Response by SSG Tom Montgomery made Jun 23 at 2019 11:27 PM

SSG Tom Montgomery — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 23:27:17 -0400

If you are dumb enough to bring a cell phone to any formation, least of all a change of command, don't bitch. The 1Sgt did what was necessary to remove the annoyance. That was disrespectful action on your part, bringing a cell phone with you. I've been out a while but discipline and personal responsibility can't have been discarded.
Instead of whining. Go to your first sergeant and apologize for your ill mannered indiscretion.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Jun 25 at 2019 7:52 AM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:52:03 -0400

I think you should chalk it up to a life lesson. There is no good reason to have your phone in your pocket during at a formal occasion. You were in the wrong.
I'm not advocating for destroying someone's property, but if you had left it where you should have there would be no problem.

Response by SFC Michael D. made Jun 25 at 2019 3:09 PM

SFC Michael D. — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:09:42 -0400

Open door policy. Ask to see the 1sg who deep down inside already knows he did you wrong. Explain to him that it was an accident the phone going off and that in the future you will ensure that you won't have it at formations again or remember to put it on silent. Then segway into the cost of replacing a phone and how this will cause you hardship. Blah, blah, blah, and see if the 1sg is a real Soldier and makes it right. He damaged personal property. Conduct unbecoming and all that stuff. I'm sure he wants it to just go away and will hopefully pay for your repairs. If not, then what LTC Broom, PhD siad.

Response by SFC Michael Peterson made Jul 6 at 2019 1:29 PM

SFC Michael Peterson — Sat, 06 Jul 2019 13:29:44 -0400

I'd say, suck it up buttercup and, next time, don't bring your phone. Your 1SG may have thrown your phone but, it's 110% YOUR fault.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jul 8 at 2019 1:24 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 13:24:19 -0400

Whenever I find myself on the wrong end of "justice," the VERY first thing I do is ask myself if my own actions were in any way responsible. Then I ask myself to what degree I was responsible. Then I figure out what I can change about my own actions to prevent similar outcomes in the future. I am not saying that the 1SG (effectively) destroying your phone is your fault. But I am saying that your own actions (or inactions) led to the situation in the first place. I have read through some of the comments, here is my advice.

1) Go to your TL and admit you were in the wrong. Don't make excuses like you are trying to do here (it was on silent, but the app ignored it.) It was your phone, it was your responsibility. End of discussion.

2) Ask your TL to help you talk to the 1SG about repairing your phone. Even though you were in the wrong, so was 1SG. Two wrongs don't make a right.

3) Approach the 1SG (with your TL, SL, PSG or all 3), and again offer your admission of wrongdoing. After, and ONLY after admission of guilt, request that he repair or replace your phone, his choice. Remain calm and rational, do NOT allow the conversation to become emotional.

4) Learn your lesson. Don't EVER be that guy again.

5) Help others learn from your fail - when you have Soldiers, double check their phones, and have them check things like apps which can override silent - or just have them all turned OFF.

Response by SP5 Joe Bierce made Jul 15 at 2019 10:50 PM

SP5 Joe Bierce — Mon, 15 Jul 2019 22:50:07 -0400

what were you doing with a cell phone in your pocket? learn to leave the things at home, in your barracks or in an office. You won't miss anything and will save your butt. It someone really needs you they can find you to respond to emergencies.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Jul 22 at 2019 10:40 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:40:35 -0400

I had to stop and regurgitate my breakfast after reading this and some of the responses ( I did not get far on the responses).You PFC by your own admittance her on RP said you thought it was funny? FUNNY really so can we say premeditated? You failed to mention if it was the only Phone that went off during said formation. Consequences for the action you have taken comes to mind.

I can guarantee you would have been in my office (as a PLT SGT) before the Change of command was over and before you got your phone back. We would be having a rather one sided discussion of what the repercussions for your actions could be and which ones I will recommend when I have to escort you to the 1sgt's Office by his request.

Most cell phone policy's come with an insurance Policy these days hope yours is still active. When you recovered you phone operating or not from that day forward you would see me before each formation and it would be locked in the company safe for the day until you either PCS or ETS.
I guess I just don't share your sense of Humor.

Response by PO2 Charles Gaskill made Aug 10 at 2019 8:47 AM

PO2 Charles Gaskill — Sat, 10 Aug 2019 08:47:09 -0400

I'm surprised no one suggested that they both share the cost of repair/replacement of the phone. My opinion, they were both wrong, and they both wronged each other, by that I mean; the pvt wronged the 1sgt trust that he was squared away, and the 1sgt broke his phone. They both should pay for it and move on with respect to the event as a learing experience.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Aug 23 at 2019 11:45 AM

SGT Charles Bartell — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 11:45:53 -0400

Deal with it.
You F/U by bring your phone.
Just be glad you are not in the real good old days.
When you would have been thrown not your phone.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2019 4:55 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 16:55:05 -0400

I love how everyones big fix is "Well, don't bring your phone to ceremonies." Yep, we know that, and so does he now, we're past that and he's asking about what to do now that Top busted his phone. I'd just say run it up the chain starting with your first line, but don't expect much. Odds are you're SOL and most people will just say, "That's what happens, I'd have launched it myself."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2019 11:01 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 11:01:22 -0400

The 1SG is wrong an for any of you condoning the behavior you are wrong too. Soldiers don’t make a lot of money so destroying his property is wrong. Period. Give him a chance to do the right thing if he doesn’t go up the chain. Do what you have to.

Response by SGT Frederick S. Mitchell made Sep 10 at 2019 8:12 PM

SGT Frederick S. Mitchell — Tue, 10 Sep 2019 20:12:08 -0400

You should pull your head out of your ass and accept responsibility for not doing what you were expected to do..... just saying.

Response by CPT William Jones made Sep 27 at 2019 1:51 PM

CPT William Jones — Fri, 27 Sep 2019 13:51:18 -0400

appropriate way to handle your problem in the future is don't have your phone in places the orders say don't have it there.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 3 at 2019 6:00 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 06:00:44 -0500

It's called damage to private property. Your 1SG is responsible. You learned a lesson however what you did not does let your 1SG off the hook financially.