Posted on Oct 5, 2016
SGT Sr Satcom Systems Operator/Maintainer
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First off, wow kinda surprised this generated any response at all. I was looking more for a "oh hey, just do this memorandum and it's all done." kind of a deal. Anyways as for context, awards here go through about 15 or more corrections for non-grammatical issues. The award hasn't been written yet and I would probably end up writing it anyways. I just don't want to waste anyone's time or my own for that matter with writing an award that a civilian company cares not a whit about that just going to get kicked back over and over and over. I know what I have done and I honestly don't care much for recognition. I'd rather see some of my Soldiers get credited as they go on to do bigger and better things. Do I also have other motivations for not wanting an award yes because there have been several things that have left a bad taste, but I didn't post this to air my dirty laundry, I was just simply looking for advice. Thanks all for the numerous replies. Most were pretty entertaining, and a few were even helpful.
Posted in these groups: Us medals AwardsMilitary discharge 300x201 ETS/EASCollege advice Advice
Edited 9 y ago
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Oh, this needs to have a story time to enlighten us as to what is up. But to answer your question, there are many routes you can take. You can do the extreme direct approach and not walk up to the Commander when called. Or, you can walk up and THEN tell the CDR to their face you don't want it. You could walk into your 1SGs office and state your case. Or, you could run the request up through your TL/SL/PSG and have them relay that request to your 1SG. OR.....and just hear me out.....you could simply take the award when it's presented.....ya know, be that NCO that sets the example....then about face and drive on with your life. Because in the end, if you take any of the options that were listed prior to the just taking the award and moving out, then you could set the bad example to the rest of the Soldiers (especially the Junior Enlisted) within the unit which could then in turn create even more issues within the unit in regards to morale and discipline. I would gather that you have a rather bad taste in your mouth for your unit and probably the Army as a whole, but remember this.....until that ETS date rolls around, you are still in the Army and you are an NCO. Operate as an NCO.
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LCpl David Wood
LCpl David Wood
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Well said Sir!
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Cpl Vic Eizenga
Cpl Vic Eizenga
>1 y
you will have to excuse this dumb old Marine but I even had to look up an ETA Award. When my enlistment was up in 1968 I was just happy to get my DD214 and left North Carolina as fast as I could. NO one I know ever got an ETS award.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Cpl Vic Eizenga - I didn't get one the first time I ETS'd either. Nor have I ever received a PCS award. Such is life.
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Cpl Vic Eizenga
Cpl Vic Eizenga
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MSG (Join to see) - changed duty station 4 times 3 times I did not even have the paper work until later. In Vietnam Fox 2nd Battalion 7th Marines became Hotel 2nd Battalion 1st Marines,. When I left Vietnam June 1966 from the 1st Marines. The Platoon Commander said drop everything go get on that chopper and flew to Danang. When we Got to Da Nang there was a plane with new troops getting off and I was told to go and get on that plane. I was in Okinawa 2 weeks before I got any paper work to go home.
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CPL Wilfred Roberge
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Edited 9 y ago
Hmm....
I would say "Suck it up and take the award, you may not appreciate the award right now BUT you or your children might some day in the future."
My father passed away when I was 11 and served in the Army some 20 years prior to my birth in a time (1950's Germany) when all you could basically get for awards for service were for acts of Heroism or a Good Conduct Medal. To commemorate his short military career all we have is a few pictures and a DD214 (with the awards block blank). Based on the DD214 and some second hand info from my mom all I basically know is his MOS and his UNIT. I do not even know which MOS was his primary and which was his secondary, I just know, he made it to SP4, and had been to Fort Dix for Basic, then Engineer School @ Fort Belvoir for "Engineer Equipment Repairer" and then Aberdeen Proving Grounds for "Welder Blacksmith School." then sent to his unit in West Germany. He was discharged from Active Duty just shy of 3 years "because of transportation back to the United States" (re that is when his troop ship sailed, it was serve maybe another 3 to 6 months on active duty OR get discharged "early") An ETS award probably would have told me a lot more than I was able to figure out about him from the DD214, more such as exactly what he did in his unit (an "Engineer Detachment") or what his detachment did. Did he just fix the machines of did he ever get to operate them? (He ended up as a civillian Operating Engineer in the International Union of Operating Engineers) was he good at his job or really good or just average? Was he a squad leader? When they went to the range did he consistently qualify on his assigned weapon? Sometimes ETS awards I have seen include all of this stuff and it tells the family a story. I wish I knew more about my dad' short Army Career, don't let your children be left scratching their heads because you refused an award. I am currently sending away for his Cold War Service Certificate.
Don't let an award slip through your fingers when you could have had one, it will be something not just for you but for your family. It will be something for future generations to record your history.
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PO3 Ron Whitton
PO3 Ron Whitton
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I say accept it for your family, my children are more proud of my Viet Nam service than I am.
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PFC Petroleum Supply Specialist
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I think everyone's comments and opinions are great and make sense in some way shape or form. However, without knowing the individual and their life or struggles it is very easy for everyone to say what he should have done. We all might be looking in from the outside and think his decision was a mistake or disrespectful or even immature but if he can live with it and has no regrets then drive on. One team one fight
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SGM Leon Peck
SGM Leon Peck
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You are in a military formation and still subject to the UCMJ. When called, you Post and come to attention and accept the award. When dismissed, you fall back into formation. If you try the "direct" approach, you are being insubordinate and can receive an Article 14 and loss of a stripe and possible forfeiture of pay or confinement to the barracks. After you are discharged, you can throw the award in the trash. But, you do not have the right to refuse the award or a direct order until you are out.
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CPT Rick Varner
CPT Rick Varner
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Try the military personnel center records repository in St Louis? Don't remember official name or contact info...
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SFC Dave Mccain
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****warning.....this is horrible advice******
get flagged...

****this is good advice******
write yourself a nice little AAM. Steal the format from a recently approved one, and say thank you to those you served with.
The award is not really for you. The award is for your family and future grandchildren to look back on and be proud of you. Don't take that away from them.
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SSG Communications (S6)
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Congratulations you are among the lucky few.SPC Kenny Cooley -
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CPT Joseph Martin
CPT Joseph Martin
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That's shitty
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PFC Human Resources Specialist
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Yeah don't get flagged that can cause problems with your ETS. Just copy a format from a previous one, ask for an example from S1, and just change your name, Unit, etc... That last F.U. isn't worth it.
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SFC Frank DeJulius
SFC Frank DeJulius
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Agree. You'll look back in your dotage and smile.
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What is the best way to tell your unit that you in no way shape or form want an ETS award from them?
SGM Mikel Dawson
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Make fun of someone else getting and ETS award, then someone says, "Well we are giving you one as well", to which I replied. "What for?" I was then told it was because I was leaving. I told them to stuff it. On my last day, I got a coffee mug instead with the unit patch on it. I loved it more than any award.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson
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SPC Michael Dawson - It has worked for sixty years.
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SFC William Allen
SFC William Allen
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I got a challenge coin from the CSM in a beautiful wooden display box. When it was presented to me I was allowed to say a few words. I told them all how much they and their professionalism was a breath of fresh air to me and how I will always treasure their friendship. BTY- The unit was the 793rd MP Bn in Hanau Germany.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson
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SFC William Allen - Worked with the 793rd when deployed to Bosnia in '95-96. Great bunch of guys, very professional. That's what coins and such are made for. They really mean a lot.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson
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SGM Mikel Dawson - Were you working anywhere near the bridge at Zuponja, Croatia? I was the NCOIC for the team doing command and control of the bridge crossing there at Cowboy TOC.
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MSG David Rogers III
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Take a knee during the awards presentation. Kidding. Really, sounds like you are just trying to make a statement against the unit. This may not be the way to do it.
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SFC Kevin Todd Sr
SFC Kevin Todd Sr
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SGT Brian Baker - i never got one either after 24 years
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SFC Kevin Todd Sr
SFC Kevin Todd Sr
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Sgt Chris Lima - he is a 1lt that explains it
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CW2 Human Resources Technician
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HILARIOUS.
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CW2 Human Resources Technician
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As an HR Warrant I get this question more often then one would think. If noone recommends the award it can not be processed to talk to your first line supervisor if you are that adoment about it. Like most have stated I would let the award make its way through and just accept it as you will look back later and appreciate it. And the award is for you so those who have said it's not really for you are a little misguided
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SFC Joseph Weber
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Go to your 1SG and scream and stomp your foot a lot. I've seen that work pretty well for people who don't want things.
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SSG Ryan Costa
SSG Ryan Costa
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CPT (Join to see) - Lol, my experience as a Lieutenant
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CW3 Danny Abraham
CW3 Danny Abraham
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What's up drinking buddy?
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SFC Joseph Weber
SFC Joseph Weber
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CW3 Danny Abraham - holy crap! Whats up brother? Im actually in Kabul at the moment.
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CW3 Danny Abraham
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1SG Mike Case
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Take your award unless you came to the unit and did nothing to make it better and you simply wasted space. I am curious as well to hear why you want no award in any way shape or form.
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SFC Clark Adams
SFC Clark Adams
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SSG Tony Miti - I met a SP/6 who was given an AAM as his retirement award.......20 years and he was given award that requires the least effort to justify! He was a better man than I would have been!
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SGT Instructor/Writer
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Best speech I heard after a deployment, when we were all in final formation to get on the bird.

"The deployment has come to its end. If you feel like you honestly did a good job congratulations...pat yourself on the back. For those of you who didn't contribute and know you got an award you didn't deserve, you just wasted a year of your life."

We've all seen people that received awards that everyone knows didn't deserve them. Some deserve and some don't. People know what they did or didn't do. So who cares?
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SSG Station Commander
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SGT Camron-----I have seen many responses here. Some I am ashamed of to say they actually served. To receive an award in today's mostly garrison duty is a task in it's self to accomplish. To get one just because you are leaving a unit is a tradition, that in some ways, baffles me. I instruct my Soldiers to think of the award they think they deserve and tell me who is the approving authority for that award. If you make a big enough difference at the level of approving authority in your command then you deserve said award. If not, check yourself and your ego at the door.

Accept the award recommended gracefully. Leave the service and all is done. You set the example by actions to your Sodliers, not words.
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SFC Clark Adams
SFC Clark Adams
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SPC Steven Vazquez - For some reason far too many CSMs have a hard on to screw with or screw over Medics!
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When I left 1/501 in Alaska in the late 1990s, they got me a plaque and awarded me an ARCOM. They didn't do it "just because," usually the effort and the award, if any, were directly related to the value contribution of the soldier. If your unit does it "just because", and you feel like you never really clicked with it, or you are unsure about your aggregate value-contribution to the unit and/or your own merit, take it anyway, and just put it on your DD-214.

It's the same reason why you never swear at your boss in the civilian world on your last day before you quit. As satisfying as these things might seem, burning bridges is a bad idea.
Capt Retired
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SGT (Join to see) Take the award. You may some day be being considered for a job/promotion by a vet who would think no award was a pretty negative thing.
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SMSgt Flight Chief
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Absolutely NOT! Who is better qualified for the job? What else have they done? The ribbons are such a joke anyway. I've seen people get ribbons they did not deserve and vice-versa. I want the person working with me to be the best person qualified working with me, PERIOD.

In fact, as I have done in previous hiring, I looked up references and even mutual friends/acquaintances on social media to get a good idea of what the person is capable of. In my field (IT), we only care if you can get the job done and aren't a total D-bag.
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Capt Retired
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Some good points, however, if you truly believe people do not judge you by anything but you performance on the job you are either very lucky to have such a job or very naive about what really goes on in the world.

My point was simply, do not refuse an award that could be viewed as a negative if you did not get such.
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MAJ Civil Affairs Officer
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It sad that solders are judged by what awards and bling they wear
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Capt Retired
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I agree and I didn't they will be. I just said there may be some out there who would.

Totally judges - not likely, but a small doubt, a lingering why, maybe.
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SFC Lawrence Born
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Here is MY story for the time I turned down a PCS award. First I will say that I NEVER did my job in the Army with a mindset of "gee, can I get an award for this?" I did what I did for soldiers. My last assignment before I ETS'd from active duty (I subsequently came back as an activated reservist and retired) was with USAG Vicenza. I was assigned to the unit for just shy of 4 years. The entire time I served, first as an E5 then an E6, in an E7 Garrison Religious Support NCOIC billet. For half of that time I was also the Headquarters Platoon Platoon Sergeant. Further, as an E5 I won the USAG Europe NCO of the year competition and placed second in the world wide competition in
Virginia. All this while also running the Chapel's NAF and AF operations ( a job usually done by an O3 or O4) and receiving 2 perfect scores from the GAO auditing staff. When it came time to ETS my boss (an O5 Chaplain) put me in for an MSM as I had been operating WAAAY above my pay grade for years. It was concurred on by our Garrison Commander but had to go to SETAF for approval. I had a buddy that worked in their S1 shop and happened to be picking him up to go to lunch one day. As I stood there I watch him processing BRONZE STARS for all of the E8-9s and O4s and above who had just returned from deployment. ALL of these jokers had been working staff jobs on BAF and had NEVER left. I asked him to check on my award if he could so he went into the civilian ADJs office and I heard that DOUCHE say " I don't care WHAT he did, he is only a SSG and we don't give ANY SSG an award above ARCOM." I was so pissed that after lunch I told my boss what had happened and told him NOT to resubmit for an ARCOM. I had 5 already and another would mean nothing. The next day I saw the Garrison Commander in the gym (we worked out at the same time every day and went to Mass together) and told him what had happened he apologized but said that was a SETAF policy he thought they would make an exception to in my case. I told him that if he saw that civilian I would appreciate it if he told him to choke on a damn ARCOM for me. He laughed. I had a great going away with some cool gifts and all my comrades which meant more than the award could have. Accepting what they were willing to "give" me would have only made me even more angry. The very idea of awards being tied in ANY way to rank is just plain embarrassing.
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SGT Medic
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I hated the awards being tied to rank BS
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PFC Scott Clough
PFC Scott Clough
4 y
I was in the awards clerk position at Battalion for a while during my service time. I made the mistake of admitting I could type. If you really do not want an award, just talk to the clerk in S1 who actually processes them. The percentage of EM and ETS/PCS awards was actually a measurable goal when I was in. I would send reminders to the company 1st Sgts about soldiers getting ready to depart. Many times I wrote the awards and submitted them myself. I had it to where I could process an AAM in one day from submission to orders. ARCOM, two-three days, and anything higher was out of my hands. I was able to get awards processed so they could be presented by our Battalion Commander for almost every soldier who departed our command. Most were very happy to have recognition, especially in front of their peers. I remember cooks being the most affected as they rarely were shown appreciation. Had a Cook SSG who received his first ARCOM when PCS from our unit. On the other hand, I frequently heard, we don't give ARCOM's to anyone below E-5 and other rejection/reductions of recommended awards due to rank and a in a couple cases, even race. I can only imagine how much award inflation occurred in the combat theaters.
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CPO Gene Gysin
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Go AWOL
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SPC Troop Program Unit (Tpu)
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Best advice hahahahhahaha
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SGT Dave Tracy
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I don't know how best to say it, but you could always ask them to lose your paperwork. If they're like my old unit, you won't even need to ask!
LOL
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SGT Sr Satcom Systems Operator/Maintainer
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Best reply so far.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
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I hear throat punches are an effective way to ensure you don't get an award.

I suggest starting with your CSM, they always did appreciate a good throat punch.
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Christopher Kinsella
Christopher Kinsella
>1 y
PFC Jim Wheeler - Maybe I'm misinterpreting something you said but it sounds like you said you were injured, failed a PT test and then failed a second test within a couple weeks? And then you took a chapter 13? You should have been given 90 days to retest.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
PFC Jim Wheeler
>1 y
Christopher Kinsella - My understanding of the reg is that you get a maximum of 90 days. You're supposed to take it at any time during those 90 days that you believe you can pass.

I was not afforded the option to choose when I was ready to take it and the CO decided when I was to take it.

If I had a better understanding of the regulations then, there was a lot that I could have done to fight it. Unfortunately, I was a 20 year old kid who was still new to the Army and didn't understand what my options were.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
PFC Jim Wheeler
>1 y
However, it was more than 2 weeks. I think it was 6? I was originally put on remedial PT for a while, but all that did was make things worse.

When the CO said I had to take the next PT test my Section SGT asked me if I could pass and I told him I didn't think so. He asked what I needed, I told him 2 weeks of rest for inflammation to go down. He sent me to sick call and said he was going to talk to the CO about postponing the test.

CO said no. He said I had to take it on Monday or it would be the same as failing and he would start the chapter proceedings.
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Christopher Kinsella
Christopher Kinsella
>1 y
PFC Jim Wheeler - right, you weren't supposed to be the expert...that's what the Trial Defense Attorney is for. Every legal office I've worked in has applied that regulation to mean Soldier gets 90 days, IF the Soldier wants to go sooner they get a counseling from the command acknowledging that they are voluntarily taking it early and understand the risk of doing so. You were done wrong.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
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Feels like there must be a story behind this. Can you share more context?
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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CPT Aaron Kletzing , I'm going to get the popcorn ready if and when the story comes out.
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SGT Sr Satcom Systems Operator/Maintainer
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Made an edit above to clarify. Plenty of stories, but I will leave those for when SGT Camron is a Mr. Camron.
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TSgt Jeremy Morris
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SGT Jason Herbert
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Understanding your not a special snowflake is a leading edge on getting out. No one cares about your awards when they hire you. They only care if you could make their job easier. And don't list every god damned aar on your resume either. Obviously if you have any valor awards put that down but we laugh at bronze stars because we saw how standard they where for an e-7 as a post deployment award.

You want to truly not care? Take the award, accept it and put it in a trunk with your fatigues.

Don't let your lower enlisted see you bitter. They will think your "one of those guys who couldn't cut it in the army". If you want to show them that there is life on the outside and be subjective to re-up. Just get out and make a better life.
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SFC Federal Agent
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Why is this a topic? Your ETSing, that says enough right there. I guess in today's climate, everything is a protest.
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SGT Scott Stancik
SGT Scott Stancik
>1 y
The E-7 that ran the DFAC on my FOB in Iraq got a Bronze Star for adding more menu items......and also 1 squad leader per Infantry platoon was picked and they received a Bronze Star. Anyway, by the time my ETS date came up I was so tired of being at Drum I didn't give a fuck about anything besides a DD214 when it was time. I was an E5, my company gave me an AAM as my ETS award, zero fucks given, that AAM is buried in a plastic box somewhere in my "shit pile" along with the other stuff no one will give a shit about when I die in 50+ years lol
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SGT Jason Herbert
SGT Jason Herbert
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SGT Scott Stancik - I remember picking up a stars and stopes and reading how a marine lower enlisted rushed enemy fire several times to pull his injured squad mates back for aid. And he received a bronze star... it really made me distane the army's award mentality.
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Cpl Dan A.
Cpl Dan A.
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SGT Jason Herbert - I know it brother. I know it.
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SFC National Service Officer
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14
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Take the ETS award and put your ego away. Now, if at retirement and your award gets massively downgraded by your CoC than tell them to shove that up their collective asses.
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1SG Mark Reed
1SG Mark Reed
>1 y
Agree, years ago I was recommended for a LOM And my Bn Cdr down graded it to an MSM; he said I disn't meet my potential even though I was retiring as a a 1SG. At the time only 3% of NCOS achieved E8 or E9. When I confronted him about the downgrade he couldn't justify his actions to me, just a cowardly LTC unfit to lead. Good news is, the award would only affect what is placed on my head stone.
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1SG Mark Noyes
1SG Mark Noyes
>1 y
Agree,I too was leaving my Batallion to take an assignment as a Senior Instructor in a USARF School. At the last formation of the day our Bn Commander presented me with an ARCOM. Prior to reading the citation he apologized and said this is not the proper award. I had put you in for an MSM. Your buddy the Bde Commander said no.

When I retired seven of us received the Kiss Of Death ( MSM). When I saw who was receiving the award mine meant nothing...
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SFC Clark Adams
SFC Clark Adams
3 y
My son retired from the Army as an LTC and awarded another MSM, because the CG felt only COL and above were entitled to receive an LOM at retirement! This despite holding multiple MSM and Defense Meritorious Service Medals for his service in multiple Joint and DoD HQ DA level assignments for the preceding 12 years. He said screw it! This is just another reason I should retire.
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Capt Tom Brown
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By all means share the back story which resulted in this decision. Without context it could just be a BA or sour grapes.
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SMSgt Flight Chief
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THIS. Too much BS in the background always gets ignored prior to an instance like this. This is more often than not, the case.
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LTC Paul Labrador
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If you're ETSing, you're never going to wear it.....so what's the point in being obstinate about receiving one? If you really feel that strongly about it, pitch it in the trash as soon as you walk out the door.
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CW5 Desk Officer
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Tell your chain of command in person. Put it in writing, MFR, if necessary.
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SGT Sr Satcom Systems Operator/Maintainer
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Thanks, that was generally what I figured is what I would have to do, figured that I would ask just in case someone knew instead of making an assumption.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
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I think in the long term, when you are older and look back on this, you will regret not taking an award. You should take an award and try your best to reflect on the positives from this experience.
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CPL Wilfred Roberge
CPL Wilfred Roberge
9 y
MSG (Join to see) - I was put in for an award for my IMA tour at a Reserve Command and they wanted it to be ready before the end of my active duty so I was writing up my own award, lol, the DA638 was submitted by my supervisor though, the G-1 awards section which I was attched to SO I ended up preparing my own award after recieving the DA638 and sending it to the awards board, lol.
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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Rambo when you serve 31 years then talk to me, I shouldn't need to write my retirement award period that is a command function, until you young bloods understand this then it will be a problem
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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SPC (Anonymous) - from the post his unit left a bad taste, I myself retired from a unit that was toxic from day one and anything received from them would only make my retirement the more bitter, I chose the right path, what this sm is seeking is can he do it, answer is yes, does he need a reason no, and is there any reg out there that states you have to have an award for ets or retirement award I doubt it, his reasons as well as mine are own business
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
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MSG (Join to see) - AMEN!! I never had that problem while in the Service, I was blessed with Outstanding Skippers and Senior Non Coms. but when I was discharged I went to work for the State. I retired from the State with 34 years my last Agency I was there for 12 years and my Supervisor did not have the time or inclination to even write up a blurb about my service so the Agency Director could read it when she gave me my retirement plaque and letter. Even though I was only one of two people in the state that could do my job, all I got was "He worked for the agency 12 years" No mention of the rest of the time or nothing. Pitiful! The Military is not the only places that have Toxic environments or piss poor leadership and management styles.
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