What is the best weapon against toxic leadership?

2015-03-10T12:14:11-04:00

We've all experienced this at some point or another, whether in a civilian or military environment. I witnessed some severely toxic personalities while in Afghanistan, that led to direct interference with our operations.

In your opinion, what is the best way to combat toxic leadership? Are we simply not paying attention to character and integrity when recruiting? Is there an underlying culture issue that leads these individuals to succeed and gain more responsibilities, and therefore, more opportunities to cause problems?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 4:50 PM

2015-03-23T16:50:21-04:00

That is one of the main problems with toxic leadership - they rarely show their toxicity around superiors.

I have a friend who ran into toxic leaders while deployed. She decided to fall on her sword for her soldiers & call the leader on their toxicity. It did not bode well for her on her reviews, thus causing her to have to hold out on promotion to E-7, but I feel that she did the right thing. She needed to show the subordinates that not all leadership is like that & they needed to see someone stand up for them - at that person's peril.

Sometimes, that's all that can be done. If the CoC won't listen, then you have to take action yourself - once everything is tried, of course.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 23 at 2015 6:16 PM

2015-03-23T18:16:58-04:00

Toxic followership?

Quid Pro Quo on these things does not work and fighting back with similar behavior never works. I found myself in a similar situation a few years back and just continued to record notes and emails until it could be brought to the attention of superiors. I was pulled out of that unit and given a new opportunity and as far as I can tell, those involved did not have their careers favorably looked at.

Record everything and keep notes. Documented items with email is ideal.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2015 11:21 AM

2015-07-29T11:21:27-04:00

Patience. In the long haul, it will work itself out. To paraphrase the apostle Paul: God isn't mocked, what a person sows, he or she will reap.

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Jul 29 at 2015 11:30 AM

2015-07-29T11:30:57-04:00

Difficult balancing act: you have to professional on the one hand and also not back down or be kowtowed by such behavior on the other hand. It's inevitable, it will happen. Some think it's part and parcel to military life to act and even accept that kind of unprofessionalism. I, too, saw a lot of it in Afghan and didn't realize how far it had slipped since either one of my pumps to Iraq. The short answer is: everyone takes an ass-chewing sometimes. If you're taking a lot of them, or giving a lot of them, clearly something isn't right.

Response by SMSgt Tony Barnes made Jul 29 at 2015 4:18 PM

2015-07-29T16:18:47-04:00

Rat poison. (Just kidding)

Response by Sgt Sharon Allen made Jul 29 at 2015 5:13 PM

2015-07-29T17:13:14-04:00

It probably depends on your rank, unit, the level of toxicity, situation involving ethics (ie. harassment, sexual or otherwise), and the support a service-member feels from the higher chain of command, etc. I learned when I was in that if one waits it out, everybody moves in the military, so likely, one will not work for someone longer than a year or two. There is also a book called "Crucial Conversations" that discusses how ANY conversation can be talked about as long as it is approached in the appropriate manner. So going to the superior, again depending on the situations, and attempting to have an open discussion using some simple sales techniques can be useful. Using open ended questions such as, "The other day you asked me to .... Can you clarify for me some your expectations?" "Excuse me (Ma'am or Sir), I was wondering if I could get your advice on a matter. I have been having difficulties understanding the intentions or meaning of someone and I don't know how to handle it. With your experience, I'm sure you have had a similar situation (and keeping it very general)... In the past, what types of techniques have you used to increase communication between you and other people?" Etc...

Response by SPC Robert Patrick made Jul 31 at 2015 11:19 AM

2015-07-31T11:19:15-04:00

I would say to counter toxic leadership add an additional part to the NCOER and OER where raters get some input from the Subordinates on the individual in question about what they think of their leadership. One bad response wouldn't necessarily hurt the leader but if all or a majority of their Subordinates are citing problems with the Leaders leadership then it may be a queue for the Chain of Command to take a look into it. To often to the toxic leaders go unnoticed because they put on a facade for seniors. This would be a way to combat that. Unless a Soldier brings up an issue to their command or superiors of their supervisor the Command with be none the wiser. This can also be a tool to help young NCO's grow and learn. The feedback will help Commands know what is going on when they are not looking and also know who would be right for specific additional duties.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 24 at 2019 5:18 PM

2019-03-24T17:18:34-04:00

A sense of humor.

And a good subordinate leader. If the next lower leader is worth their salt, they will do a lot to shield those even lower. It REALLY sucks for that guy or gal, though.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2019 12:02 PM

2019-04-09T12:02:56-04:00

Evidence. Document EVERYTHING. Record conversations, screen shot texts, keep emails. Once you have enough you take it one step above their head to their first line leader. You need to be level headed enough to articulately convey their negative behavior, why/how the behavior is toxic, and how it negatively impacts the organization. If nothing is done, or worse, if you are retaliated against, record that too and then go straight to IG. Those problem individuals will probably not have anything done to them but you will probably get an opportunity to move to a different outfit.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2020 6:03 AM

2020-03-30T06:03:25-04:00

Nobody, I hope, is going out there, dressing up for the day saying to themselves "I am going to be the WORST possible leader today! I am going to demoralize and dehumanize every single person I meet because I want them to know I am a terrible person!"

Toxic leadership is an environmental issue. It has more to do with burnout and high stress than anything else. At the officer/SNCO level, it can have some detrimental effects, but we just need to follow the basics and not reinvent the wheel: What is the commander's intent? Follow that; if an officer is frequently having to involve his/herself in the process, the first question is "why?" you have a SNCO that can do that... Are they doing it? Are they following commander's intent? Or are they chilling in the smoke pit? And if that is the case... Why? Are you talking to them? Are they talking to you? If not, why? Toxic leadership does not always mean "bad" leadership, but it usually means that one leader is burned out or not doing their job properly. Rarely do I hear things like "We need to NJP a Marine in order to demonstrate our authority" If you hear that... You better be making an IG report or three. You better be raising hell straight to the top until the IG comes down hard on the unit to figure out what the problem is.

If you are hearing things that pertain to real-world implications, like quotas on NJPs or mandatory safety violations in order to meet a quota or set an example, kill it. With hellfire. That is not even "toxic leadership", its just being a terrible person.

To avoid toxic leadership, officers and SNCOs need to come to an arrangement. Like a marriage, almost. We hear that alot, but then it becomes a matter of who is the man and who is the woman? And that is not the right way of thinking about it. We see a lot of things on social media about this, and that contributes to the problem. So here are some things we can work on:

Officers- Listen to your SNCOS! They have been around the block a time or two, they have been in the lower enlisted ranks and know how they feel better than you ever can. If you are not hearing from your SNCOS, you need to put the pressure on them- it could mean they have a problem in their personal life. That is something you must contend with. Never, never, never under any circumstance make a decision without consulting your SNCO. EVER. That will lead you to the path of the dark side.

SNCOS- You are not the fucking boss! If you were, you would have bars or leaves on your collars! You need to be the subject matter expert- the senior advisor- to the commander. He/She is the boss, not you. You have the exclusive task of leading them to the right decision based on your experience. Communicate your experience. Make them into the officer that you want to be in charge. Make them good officers based on YOUR guidance. That will, in turn, then make you the boss, because a good SNCO can get anything they want done via an officer's signature, because they have an established reputation of giving good advice.

Bottom line- communication is the key. Junior officers need to be molded by SNCOS- not coddled, not ignored, and not stigmatized. Likewise, SNCOS need to be heard, respected, and involved in the decision-making process- not undervalued because of rank or status, not uninvolved on purpose, and not ignored.