What is the correct way to go about pressuring command to put me in for schools?

2022-10-20T18:18:51-04:00

I am a e-4 close to reaching rcp. I am 150 points away from rank cut off. One of my biggest deficits is military schooling. I have been begging command since July to put me in for any schools. They haven't done it once.
I am not flagged, never got a negative counciling, have a passing pt test on record, and no profile. I have been told by a civilian ops they have presented over 7 schools fully funded and lodged on multiple occasions to commander and she refuses to sign anything with no explanation. Any time I ask about it, I get the "we are working on it". I have even offered to take leave to block our the schedule and do schools on my own time. We are fully staffed and they don't hesitate to send us to non-promotional taskers
I don't want to go to ig if can help it (partly because unit is vindictive and partly because I have no written evidence to present) but I am also not wanting to get forced out because my commander is denying things under the table. So, what is the best way to create a written trail that can be used if I do have to force hands and threaten to report. My Sgt claims to still be putting in for schools but never mentioned the rejections or given any feedback as to why or what the unit wants

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Oct 20 at 2022 6:37 PM

2022-10-20T18:37:59-04:00

Pressure? No... Ask them.

Response by COL Randall C. made Oct 20 at 2022 7:16 PM

2022-10-20T19:16:00-04:00

If you change your question from "go about pressuring command" to "go about convincing command" then I can give you advice. Frankly, you're not going to do anything that 'pressures' command to send you to school.

You can go to the IG if you want. I'll dispel something you've probably been told by barracks lawyers though. An IG can't force a commander to do anything. The IG can make a recommendation to the commander, but unless there is illegal activity going on (and if there is, he can do the same thing anyone else can and report it to the authorities) there is nothing else they can do as they have no command authority.

You mentioned that the commander isn't approving any schools, so this doesn't sound like it is something that is signaling you out. Sounds like there might be something greater there.

If that's not accurate and others are going to school but not you, you'll need to have a honest conversation with yourself about 'why them and not me'. Are you absolutely sure that the paragon picture you're alluding to is accurate or are there blemishes in your record. Frankly speaking, I question that picture when you stated you're approaching your RCP (8 years) as an E-4.

While you might like an explanation on why something isn't going your way, you'll get nowhere with the attitude that you are entitled to an explanation from your commander. For all you know they have other factors that are impacting on their decisions.

Your best bet is to talk to your senior NCO leadership and see if they can put in a good word for you. They might even be able to ascertain a reason why you might not be getting what you are asking.

You could always go for alternate solutions as well instead of trying to fight the problem. Since you're trying to get school for promotion points, have you bothered to look at the ones that you don't need your unit's approval to enroll in?

There are MANY different online courses that will give you promotion points as well as probably courses there on posts after hours (check with your education center) if you're looking for stuff in-person. You can earn up to 260 points (I believe that is still the figure) through military education and many of the course through eLearning, JKO and others will fit that category.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2022 8:08 PM

2022-10-20T20:08:34-04:00

Open Door with BN CSM

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Oct 20 at 2022 8:20 PM

2022-10-20T20:20:32-04:00

Use the open door policy with 1st Sgt/CSM.

I also recommend having having an honest look at everything and double check that you don’t have anything missing or anything you can improve on. Is your Physical fitness score maxed? Can you get a higher score? Are you PME complete? Do you have education done? Do you have any documented public service or volunteer work?

There is always something else you can do.

I’d warn against doing an IG complaint because with this little information/proof it will blow up in your face.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Oct 20 at 2022 9:16 PM

2022-10-20T21:16:28-04:00

This very tough to deal with?It might be helpful to find out, if others have been sent to any schools? Don't you have a training NCO? If not, try to see if the Battalion S3, can provide information!

Response by SGM Jeff Mccloud made Oct 20 at 2022 10:13 PM

2022-10-20T22:13:21-04:00

Where are you at with the points you control?
IWQ, APFT, CIV ED, DL courses

and what is your MOS?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2022 11:03 PM

2022-10-20T23:03:01-04:00

Good advice here, hope it works out for you. I would like to second you changing your approach. Think about this in terms of "convincing," not pressuring.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2022 12:22 AM

2022-10-21T00:22:41-04:00

Your Commander is not obligated to send you to any schools other than NCOES. Your Commander has a mission and taskings to fulfill that are priority over schools that you wish to attend. Units have limited funding they spend on schools and those funds are prioritized to schools which support unit missions first. Also, you cannot attend a school while on leave.

If you are in an MOS that is hard to make SGT in with maxed correspondence and civilian education, then you're in an MOS that is almost impossible to make SSG in. The problem is your MOS, there are some jobs you absolutely do not stay in more than one term if you want to get promoted. Most of the smaller 68 series, half of the 91 series, most of the 94 series, and Band are some examples. There are several MOS's in the SMAPP program that guarantee promotion upon graduation like 17E, 46S, 31D, 35L. HRC always grants an RCP exception for reclass into these as well. There is also commissioning/OCS and several warrant MOS's besides pilot that you can apply to which accept any feeder MOS.

If you're hearing this and thinking you don't want to switch jobs, just realize that when you do eventually get promoted in your MOS you're going to separate at 14 years for RCP, without a retirement. That, or you're going to need go get really good at boards and volunteer work, so you can max out your awards, PT so you can max that, and then request to go Airborne so you get those extra points and go to a unit that loves sending people to school

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2022 1:45 AM

2022-10-21T01:45:57-04:00

I think there is a lot to unpack here. Schools are really dependent on the needs of the Army and the unit. Units just can't send anyone to a school. Some units really don't have slots and on top of that you might be in an MOS that is not afforded schools. Now we have to look at the elephant in the room. Still being an E-4 for so long may show that your leadership may believe that you are not among the best for retention. I have learned in the Army that your service is not a right and you are not entitled serve. You don't even have to be bad to hit your RCP. You may be getting out paced by your peers in your MOS. With that being the case the Army and your leadership may not want to invest in a diminishing return.

I don't think you realize what IG really does. They provide impartial, objective, and unbiased advice and oversight to the Army through relevant, timely, and thorough inspections, assistance, investigations, and training to promote and enable stewardship, accountability, integrity, efficiency, good order & discipline and enhance total Army readiness. If you try to report your commander then you would have to report every commander you have ever had for also not sending you to a school. Then they would have also have to investigate why every other soldier haven't been sent to a school. I am sure you may see that this is a bit much. I am a commander. I select those I send to schools based on a few things. It is mainly, retainability, due to the unit benefiting from the training, and probability of success, I wouldn't send them unless I know they can bring back a skill. Maybe you can try to find a duty in your unit and say why you should perform those duties and get the training. At this point I would really prepare to move on from the Army.