What is the proper way to handle soldiers (junior enlisted) addressing each other as Sergeant Major?

2016-03-31T02:46:27-04:00

Is there a regulation addressing this or is it just something the old school soldiers would never dream of doing, and the new school soldiers just do whatever they want?

Response by CSM Michael Chavaree made Mar 31 at 2016 5:37 AM

2016-03-31T05:37:20-04:00

Never knew this was an issue, on the spot verbal roundhouse kick to the face should work.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 6:09 AM

2016-03-31T06:09:49-04:00

Article 134 of UCMJ covers impersonating a commissioned, warrant, or noncommissioned officer.

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-26.htm

UCMJ - Article 134 - (Impersonating a commissioned, warrant, noncommissioned, or petty officer,...

Punitive articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Includes information from the Manual for Court Martial (MCM), 2002, including text from the UCMJ, elements of proof, explanation of offenses, and maximum permissible punishment under military court-martial.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 31 at 2016 6:17 AM

2016-03-31T06:17:56-04:00

All Soldiers are to be addressed by their rank. Referring to each other by another grade is at the very least disrespectful to that grade or the person holding that grade in that unit. If they are doing it in gest indicating their future, then a simple motivating conversation should handle it, if it is in a mocking manner then the conversation turns to disrespect.

You assert your lawful authority and make the correction.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 6:37 AM

2016-03-31T06:37:43-04:00

It must be a "New Army"
Shanigans if I did that I was smoked all day. When I first came back from AIT i accidentally called my PSG Sir and that was the last time I called him that.

Response by SFC Ronald Burris made Mar 31 at 2016 7:26 AM

2016-03-31T07:26:26-04:00

I believe it's in AR 600-20, if they haven't done away with that regulation. It's the same regulation that covers Assumption of Command.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 8:04 AM

2016-03-31T08:04:34-04:00

It was common when I was a private (2007ish) that my CSM would call soldiers "Sergeant Major in-training". Granted, adding the "in-training" definitely makes a difference. My point is, I think it really depends upon the intent. Is the purpose to build comradery and motivate, or it is intended as disrespect to those who earned the rank of SGM or CSM?

If it is intended as disrespect, I would treat it as such. If not, I do not see a problem.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Mar 31 at 2016 8:34 AM

2016-03-31T08:34:51-04:00

They are probably doing it to yank your chain. I didn't give a shit if my Marines called each other the Grand Poobah of upper butt crack, as long as they did what they were supposed to

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Mar 31 at 2016 8:45 AM

2016-03-31T08:45:54-04:00

Nip it in the bud right now...goes to good order and discipline no matter the context.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 31 at 2016 9:40 AM

2016-03-31T09:40:22-04:00

Once, I encountered a Sgt in my company out in town. He was in civvies, wearing a ball cap with regulation Captain's bars pinned to them. I discreetly called him to my position. Told him to hand me the cover. I calmly unpinned the bars and put them in my pocket and returned his ball cap. I ordered him to report to the Company 1st Sgt on Monday with his SSgt at 0630 and give a full explanation of what just happened.

At 0633 on Monday, the only thing I heard was "You did what?!

At 0645, the 1st Sgt brought me a cup of coffee (not something I expected him to do, or that he usually did). He smiled and said "the situation is well in hand sir". He asked if he could have a seat, I said sure. We silently enjoyed our coffee and the beautiful morning. Then we stepped off together to take morning formation. I never got any report of what happened. It was about three weeks before the Sgt could look me in the eyes.

Response by CSM David Heidke made Mar 31 at 2016 9:51 AM

2016-03-31T09:51:19-04:00

Never heard of it... Of course I have heard the rank Specialist Major used...

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 10:11 AM

2016-03-31T10:11:19-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I've heard thousands of times Private Major (from PVT to PFC) or Full Bird Private for SPC but never Sergeant Major.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 10:41 AM

2016-03-31T10:41:26-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member Totally unacceptble. Discuss this with them. Explain the history and the fact the responsibility involved the tops have and what it took to get there. If they ignore you, then take action by going to your immediate supervisors. And this includes officers as well. I do not care what they think but what they know about leadership.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Mar 31 at 2016 11:14 AM

2016-03-31T11:14:58-04:00

Why? I don't understand why they would do this in the first place. I guess I am too old to get it.
However, deal with it promptly and remind them it is unprofessional and immature to address folks as something they are not. Military members are to be addressed by their rank and name.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 11:35 AM

2016-03-31T11:35:31-04:00

Yes, there is an army regulation that dictates what your rank will be called, AR 600-20 Table 1–1. It states "title of address". So although they aren't physically impersonating a SGM, they are going against regulation. That and if someone hears them doing this... Its a no-no on in many facets.

Hope this helps?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 11:49 AM

2016-03-31T11:49:25-04:00

My friends use to call me "Command Private Major" when I started working as the driver. They meant no harm and certainly no disrespect to our CSM. I think the Army's sensitivity training might be making all of us a bit too soft to feel comfortable with harmless humor.

Response by 1SG James Wise made Mar 31 at 2016 1:17 PM

2016-03-31T13:17:34-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member , As others have stated, put a stop to it in a professional manner. With that said, I'd find out why they are doing it. At one time, way long ago in my first permanent party unit after Basic and AIT there was a fellow Soldier in my Cohort who's name started with Top....and was 5 syllables in total length. All the members of the Cohort called him Top - much to the consternation of the other members of our platoon until they got to know us, and then called him that too. It turned heads a lot of times, got some of us smoked on occasion, but we never did it out of respect to the 1SG. Same with the other member of our Cohort with the last name Major...who made SGT a few years later and we THEN took particular joy in shouting at SGT Major to get over here or to go report to 1SG, or whatever else. Rank/Name combos can sometimes lend themselves to all kinds of headaches and entertainment. Oh some of the combos I've seen over the years, LOL.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 31 at 2016 1:40 PM

2016-03-31T13:40:03-04:00

Young people want to be king of the machine without understanding the machine. I can't believe we have to go to a regulation to fix this.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 2:01 PM

2016-03-31T14:01:22-04:00

Wall to wall.... Er.. Well, I guess you could pull them aside and go Big Sarge on them. In all honesty, have to fix it now, don't let it fester.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Mar 31 at 2016 2:27 PM

2016-03-31T14:27:44-04:00

It depends on how the context is. If it's a simple joke between each other, I see no issue. If it's disrespect, I would correct it. Case by case.

Response by CSM Jerry Bennett made Mar 31 at 2016 3:02 PM

2016-03-31T15:02:54-04:00

More responsibility. Training that relates to the infraction. Give them a chance to be responsible for something as remedial training and see what happens. You may set the spark for a future Sergeant Major.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 3:44 PM

2016-03-31T15:44:21-04:00

I don't know if there is a reg regarding this, but I get the impression that it is done to very overtly express a cynical attitude towards the Army, and non-verbally implies a cheapening of SGM rank and, the SGM/CSM(s) above him/her. To resolve I would let the Soldiers know you heard it and were not happy about it. Then tell a CSM...let them deal with it in a creative manner.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 5:12 PM

2016-03-31T17:12:23-04:00

I have a little different take on this. I suspect they were just screwing around and didn't think anyone would overhear them. If that's the case, I don't think they were being disrespectful at all, just being young troops doing what they do. I would still approach them and tell them someone (you) did overhear them and they need to be careful even when they're just screwing around, because it could be taken as disrespectful, and you're sure there are more than a handful of Sergeants Major that might be pretty offended by it. At that point, it would be more than just a friendly word of advice! I'd just leave it at that.

If you did think there was an intent to be disrespectful and it wasn't just messing around, I would jack them up. I would explain to them the problem - not about the regulations or impersonating or anything like that, but simply about being disrespectful of a senior NCO. If they were in my chain of command, I would probably have them do some research on the CSM and SGM ranks, when they came into being, why they came into being, what their responsibilities are, at what levels of command they serve, how they are promoted, things like that. I'd have them give a presentation to the rest of the Soldiers in the Company or at least Platoon on what they found, and address the respect and courtesies owed to SGM and CSM by Soldiers junior to them. If they aren't in your chain of command, I'd go to my PSG or 1SG and ask them to accompany me to the Soldiers' PSG or 1SG to discuss the incident with them.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Mar 31 at 2016 5:39 PM

2016-03-31T17:39:50-04:00

To me what is funny about this is that I knew of an instance where the proper form of address for a Sergeant (E-5) in my company was Sergeant Major. We even had an incident during a battalion awards formation where they were calling out individuals for awards shortly after he was promoted, when the Adjutant called out "Sergeant Major" and both Sergeant Major and the Battalion Command Sergeant Major responded. Almost the entire battalion busted up laughing. His rank was Sergeant and his Last Name was Major.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Mar 31 at 2016 5:42 PM

2016-03-31T17:42:27-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member This sounds like a mocking, snarky underhanded sarcastic form of disrespect toward the rank structure and or discipline in general. It doesn't even sound like a good natured nickname. Excellent opportunity for an on the spot correction done in the proper manner. If you know what unit the offender(s) is in you could also mention it to one of their senior NCOs to give them a heads up. Now there have been a few good examples among the RP comments SGT Private RallyPoint Member where such might be possibly considered a good natured remark, but 90% of the time it is not intended to be complimentary, flattering or funny.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 6:08 PM

2016-03-31T18:08:07-04:00

I know that myself and others have called a lower enlisted "Sergeant Major" if they acted like they owned everything. It was never a term of endearment.

Response by SPC Gabriel Bregg made Mar 31 at 2016 6:19 PM

2016-03-31T18:19:02-04:00

If this is the worst issue you have in your unit, sit back, relax and have a beer, TR things are well in hand. Remember they're 18-20 year old kids with a job that can get them killed. Relax and look for real issues.

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made Mar 31 at 2016 6:26 PM

2016-03-31T18:26:35-04:00

If someone disrespected me in uniform you can bet I would have said something. Snap too butt hole!!! Come on someone needs to grow a pair.

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made Mar 31 at 2016 7:00 PM

2016-03-31T19:00:39-04:00

Tell them to stop, tell them why. Why is this a problem? If you do not approve of the behavior and you let it continue the will be calling each other chief next week. That crosses the line and must stop immediately.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2016 9:35 PM

2016-03-31T21:35:42-04:00

I got nothing! So much wrong with your post...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2016 5:54 AM

2016-04-01T05:54:29-04:00

People in my unit do this all the time, even after being corrected on it by the company 1SG. I personally hate it and consider it childish and insanely idiotic

Response by CSM Mio Franceschi made Apr 1 at 2016 7:57 AM

2016-04-01T07:57:29-04:00

SGT Collins the way to handle your situation is to first address the situation directly with the Soldier/ Soldiers, then counseling along with the regulations in ref to good order and discipline. You can also use the military manual of Courts Martial's to show them where they are wrong, and then if that does not work request a meeting with your Sergeant Major and let him explain it to them. If that does not work then use the counseling you did prior and charge them under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, but let the lawyers decide what the charge would be, not you, do not ever put the charge on a counseling form, because if the lawyer say's it falls under something else you will lose because you stated in writing what you were going to charge them under, and your not a lawyer. I hope this helps.

Response by SGT Charles Tittl made Apr 1 at 2016 8:21 AM

2016-04-01T08:21:18-04:00

FM 22-102 covers it!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2016 12:51 PM

2016-04-01T12:51:03-04:00

We often made up rank names in response to NCO's giving sub names for rank. "senior specialist". You were called a senior specialist but in all actuality you're just a specialist, period. We called ourselves command specialist majors etc. One thing that stuck out from one of the NCO's I looked up to was he would address us as the next rank. When I was SPC he called me SGT but he also treated me as such giving me leadership roles.

Response by CSM Eric Olsen made Apr 1 at 2016 11:16 PM

2016-04-01T23:16:17-04:00

Um, one of the oddest Qs I've ever seen on RP. I wish this was all I worried about my Tomahawks doing over the weekend. I hope that's their version of living resilience and goal setting!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2016 7:21 AM

2016-04-02T07:21:09-04:00

I can't believe this is really a topic of conversation. You are an NCO, step up and have a talk with these Soldiers, if you don't like how they are acting. Seems like everyone else has sand in their ass crack, bringing up UCMJ or other non-judicial punishments.... Oh the those of you with the "back in MY day" comments, things have changed. Get over it.

Response by Sgt Bruce Taylor made Apr 3 at 2016 2:02 AM

2016-04-03T02:02:54-04:00

Has everyone forgotten how we talked amongst our buddies when we were PFCs? Calling each other by strange ranks when they think the adults aren't listening is probably some of the LEAST offensive garbage coming out of their mouths. If they get casual enough to vocalize it in public, a simple "Cut that shit out!" is usually enough to solve most minor issues (unless you've already lost their respect). Overreacting and over punishing can quickly turn your happy and motivated Lance Colonels and Lt Corporals into unmotivated malcontents who you can no longer trust with your back turned. Nothing makes the job of an NCO easier than having motivated troops who don't constantly need to be watched. Ruin that at your peril... and if you're so concerned about "microagressions" against generalized pay grades when they think you're not listening that you make them present research to the platoon about it, they'll likely be more careful about being overheard, but most of the platoon will consider you an oversensitive douchenozzle and laugh even harder when that same PFC imitates what you would sound like if you were working the street as a tranny hooker.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2016 7:54 AM

2016-04-03T07:54:57-04:00

I'm not sure I see the problem here. When I was one of a few hundred LTs going through the Infantry Officer Basic Course at Ft Benning, the guy who showed up with the roach coach for lunch (most likely himself a retired senior NCO) would call every LT "general" and any NCO "Sergeant Major". It was just a joke. When I got to my first unit, officers and soldiers alike would sometimes joke or tease each other (their peers, not officer to soldiers) by referring to them as a higher rank. Usually it was done if a guy was talking like he had all the answers to the Army's problems, or somehow acting above his grade, or whatever. But no one ever took it as being disrespectful to the real SGMs or Generals.

Is that the type of peer to peer joking you are trying to stop, or are you saying the soldiers do it as part of the work day, like saying "SGM Smith, come here" ? That would need to be stopped with a simple "knock it off". But if they are just kidding around with each other informally, who cares? IMO trying to cite regulations for something like this is pole vaulting over a sidewalk crack.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2016 9:07 PM

2016-04-22T21:07:39-04:00

Find out what their intent is when addressing each other as such. If need be, refer to AR 600-20 Para 1-6, Army Command Policy, to teach them on how to properly address other service members.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Sep 4 at 2016 12:11 PM

2016-09-04T12:11:37-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member Checking back to see if you have seen this to be still a problem in yr area or have observed it. Do you have any success when you put a lid on it??

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Feb 5 at 2018 1:42 PM

2018-02-05T13:42:30-05:00

Don't be silly just let an old sergeant deal with then you would be surprised how imaginative they can be!!

Response by PO1 John Johnson made Mar 28 at 2019 7:28 AM

2019-03-28T07:28:52-04:00

Let the real Sergeant Major catch them doing it!

Response by SGT Cass Hill made Mar 28 at 2019 11:12 AM

2019-03-28T11:12:21-04:00

I had a CLS instructor E-5 last name Major. So Sgt Major, I bet his drill sergeants had fun with that

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2019 1:27 PM

2019-03-28T13:27:00-04:00

I’ve seen others call eachother command private major or just private major. As long as its not out of disrespect to anyone i dont see the harm. It’s just normal junior bullshittery

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 28 at 2019 2:45 PM

2019-03-28T14:45:13-04:00

Give 'em both (all) a Gibbs-slap and keep going.

Response by LCpl Jason Keiser made Mar 28 at 2019 3:19 PM

2019-03-28T15:19:49-04:00

Now, just wait a GD minute here. Its in the rear and barricks fun. There is more important things to worry about.

Response by SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD made Mar 28 at 2019 5:27 PM

2019-03-28T17:27:10-04:00

I seem to recall soldiers calling each other by obscene terms in 1968. Maybe this is an improvement. Maybe they think the pinks and greens will come with SGM stripes. I think those would be great with chrome helmet liners and white Sam Browne belts. Bloused boots too.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2019 7:33 PM

2019-03-28T19:33:33-04:00

Egad! The Specialist Mafia has their own rank structure?!
I guess my response would be to order a hit.
Best way to do that is promote them to Sergeant.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2019 8:33 PM

2019-03-28T20:33:53-04:00

Its not that deep

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Mar 28 at 2019 8:48 PM

2019-03-28T20:48:35-04:00

In every unit I was apart of, everyone had a nickname. Even the company commander. You know there is a funny story behind something when your Captain's informal nickname/call sign is "Turtle." Time and place for formal vs informal.

Response by SPC Bruce Stewart made Mar 28 at 2019 10:27 PM

2019-03-28T22:27:25-04:00

I understand their attempt at barracks humor, poor as it may be but if they have so little tact and environmental awareness to do this in front of an NCO, CO, WO or anyone else that doesn't share their humor, they deserve anything they get. Actions have consequences.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Mar 28 at 2019 11:43 PM

2019-03-28T23:43:59-04:00

Really Sergeant? What else do you get butthurt over?

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 29 at 2019 3:05 AM

2019-03-29T03:05:31-04:00

Act like an NCO and be judicial in determining if they are just popping off and ‘Relaxing as in Jackson’.

Response by SGM Monte Pursifull made Mar 29 at 2019 10:20 AM

2019-03-29T10:20:10-04:00

If done as a passing joke, no problem -- chuckle and move on. If it becomes a chronic habit, NCO on-the-spot corrections seem appropriate.

Response by CW2 Cecil Copley made May 2 at 2019 2:26 PM

2019-05-02T14:26:18-04:00

It is a display of disrespect for the Senior NCO and they should be placed under a new supervisor because their current supervisor does not recognize when disrespect is being displayed by his subordinates. They can be given an order to stop such disrespect and if they dont stop then they can be administered appropriate discipline for disobeying an order.

Response by SFC Cynthia Eyer made May 6 at 2019 6:35 PM

2019-05-06T18:35:17-04:00

Ask them when they went to the schools to obtain the rank of SGM and then tell them they are susceptible to Article 15 findings for #1 either being out of uniform for not wearing proper rank in garrison environments or #2 impersonating a higher ranking NCO. See how they change then. You don’t have to be of higher rank or same branch when observing and commenting on one’s military service record and uniform.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2021 1:17 PM

2021-08-05T13:17:23-04:00

Why handle them? They're kids having fun.