What is the punishment for a SM being a jump refusal?

2017-07-28T15:27:57-04:00

I know refusing to jump is punishable under UCMJ ART 92. I am wondering what qualifies a SM to being a jump refusal?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2017 3:34 PM

2017-07-28T15:34:26-04:00

Wouldn't that be that they are in the plane and step to the side when they get to the door, or not stand up and hook up?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2017 3:38 PM

2017-07-28T15:38:44-04:00

When at the door the jump master will give you the command to "go." On the third command he will pull you at from the door. The assistant jump master will then have you sit on your hands on the aircraft. Upon landing a rigger will inspect your equipment. If no faults are going you could receive UCMJ and termination of any orders to an airborne unit.

Response by CW5 Ranger Dave made Jul 28 at 2017 3:43 PM

2017-07-28T15:43:50-04:00

NOBODY ever refused or froze in my door. If you made it to the door you were going out one way or another.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2017 3:58 PM

2017-07-28T15:58:39-04:00

Here is what happens to the Airborne Badge
AR 600-8-22, Ch. 1-31c
(2) Parachutist Badge. Any Parachutist badge may be revoked when the awardee—
(a) Is punished under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) for refusal to participate in a parachute jump.
(b) Initiates action which results in termination of airborne status or withdrawal of any Career Management Field (CMF) 18 military occupational specialty (MOS), 180A or specialty skill identifier (SSI) 18A before he or she completes 36 cumulative months of airborne duty. Any parachutist badge with bronze star for a combat jump will be retained regardless of time on airborne status. Any parachutist badge will be retained if the Soldier is unable to complete 36 cumulative months of airborne duty through no fault of his or her own, for example, injury or reassignment under favorable conditions.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2017 4:52 PM

2017-07-28T16:52:05-04:00

Jump refusal is just that, refusing to jump once you are up in the bird. Now, I will say at Airborne School they are a *bit* more strict on this it seems. Just don't hesitate. If you are the first man, green light and the Jumpmaster yelling go means go. If you are in the stack out, just follow the line, pass off your static line, turn (if necessary depending on the type of bird), and jump. Don't hesitate at the door.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jul 28 at 2017 4:53 PM

2017-07-28T16:53:48-04:00

Never seen such an animal up in the aircraft.
Seen a few refuse to rig or load up.... But once, rigged, loaded and airborne.. in a lot of jumps as both Safety and JM, never had one remain on the AC after the green light.
To answer the question, wither its on the ground or in the air, an SM can terminate at any time..If they did so on the ground prior to rigging, loss of jump status and reassignment of duties.

If it happened in the air?? Id push for UCMJ as well as the other, as now its effecting mission completion.
Not sure if it that would fly past JAG... but Id be asking for it if supportable.

Response by PFC Jim Wheeler made Jul 28 at 2017 10:25 PM

2017-07-28T22:25:15-04:00

I had a guy on my first jump at ABN school who refused to hook up. Safety ran back and ordered him to hook up and he just kept saying he couldn't. All they did was tell him to sit on his hands and not touch his equipment.

I don't know if he got an Article 15 or any other UCMJ action, but I do know he got a "never to return" designation.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jul 28 at 2017 10:53 PM

2017-07-28T22:53:39-04:00

SSG Aaron Marshall, l never saw anyone refuse to jump the entire time I was on jump status. CPT Private RallyPoint Member SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member SGM Erik Marquez CW3 Private RallyPoint Member

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jul 28 at 2017 10:57 PM

2017-07-28T22:57:13-04:00

Back in the day we had very few actually jump refusals, sometimes all they needed was a helping hand to fortify their commitment to leaving the aircraft sometimes a helping boot. I would say that 98% of the time that was all they needed and they didn't have issues after that. These days that type of help is a NO-GO. Others have already stated the actual requirements to be a jump refusal. Anyone that does this these days has just ended their ABN Careers and wasted Uncle Sam's time and money, you lose your wings. You have also marked yourself as a worthless individual and that label will follow you till you get out. Back in the day that would earn you other things that are verbotten today. In the end you had your chance to quit throughout BAS and then before boarding the aircraft. You cause a major safety issue by blocking the door, you make the aircraft have to do a racetrack and you may cause other paratroops to miss the jump and assorted other BS because you are a POS. All of these comments come form a Master Parachutist with 253 jumps, a great fear of heights and assorted damage from burning in. If I can manage to make all those jumps and hang out of aircraft while fearing hieghts then Snuffy can suck it up and jump.

Response by SFC Randy Hensley made Jul 28 at 2017 11:08 PM

2017-07-28T23:08:15-04:00

I know what the correct response is supposed to be but if your stick is setup right with the biggest trooper in the back and they're hooked up he's going out the door.

Response by CW5 Ranger Dave made Jul 28 at 2017 11:39 PM

2017-07-28T23:39:28-04:00

Spoiler alert! Old war story. Getting our German Jump Wings in the mid '70s at Trier. The Germans demand their full second in the door. Those of us in the '09 could flat unass an aircraft. So on the first jump it was mixed American/German/American... The light flashed Green all the Americans yelled GO and all the Germans yelled NIEN. We scared the snot out of our allies. The second jump all the Germans were going to jump first then us. Same results. Now you have to understand, our stickpusher was a huge farm kid from Wisconsin named Averkamp. Averkamp, a M-60 gunner, would make the Duke look small. Like they say, when the light turned green and we yelled go, Kamper only had one job, head down and charge hard. He did that superbly. Jumps three through five was Americans first then the Germans. Worked great! Big blast of Americans than the full one second between German chutes.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 9:32 AM

2017-07-29T09:32:39-04:00

You are on a jump manifest and you do not jump for your own reasons that is a jump refusal.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 11:05 AM

2017-07-29T11:05:29-04:00

Refusing to exit the aircraft on a green light is textbook jump refusal. Now, once he/she is a refusal, they'll be sat down on the ramp of the bird until they land. Once on the ground, that SM is escorted to green ramp or is inspecteD right there by a jump master, if that jump master finds any deficiencies in the equipment then that SM is in the clear, but if no deficiencies ate found then an automatic Art15 is handed down

Response by SPC John Chambers made Jul 29 at 2017 1:10 PM

2017-07-29T13:10:26-04:00

1. Place Paratrooper in Aircraft Door
2. Place NCO boot on Paratrooper's hindquarters
3. Paratrooper has "decided" to jump

Response by SGT Mark Halmrast made Jul 30 at 2017 8:24 AM

2017-07-30T08:24:15-04:00

Shame. That is the bottom line outcome.

Saw it once. When I first got to my unit at 82nd, the guys pointed to a room and told me not to talk to the guy in that room.

Turns out he had refused to hook up a few days prior.

Ripped his wings off, no one talked to him until he was processed out in another week or so. He stayed in his room 24/7 except to SSS and eat. Never looked anyone in the eye.

Dont know if he got Article 15, dont know how the boys handled it immediately after the fact...though I have a good idea.

Enduring shame. That's the real punishmemt.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Aug 3 at 2017 12:30 PM

2017-08-03T12:30:44-04:00

I had a jump refusal on a flight where I was safety. It was a big operation jumping into FL and we had the All-American Six on the jump. He ordered our aircraft to land in FL so he could get involved. Turns out the kid had requested to terminate jump status months before the jump and his command kept putting it off and telling him he just had the jitters. What he had was a brand new daughter and he decided despite having five years on status, he was done. The commander destroyed his chain of command.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Aug 3 at 2017 4:20 PM

2017-08-03T16:20:07-04:00

Used to be termination of jump status... paratroopers ARE volunteers

Response by SSG Michael Williams made Aug 3 at 2017 5:57 PM

2017-08-03T17:57:43-04:00

Although I know I won't jump out of a perfectly good aircraft, if you joined an Airborne unit that you know requires you to jump then the only "refusal excuse" I see you have is "NO PARACHUTE".

Response by SSG Marshall Paul made Aug 10 at 2017 8:49 AM

2017-08-10T08:49:12-04:00

When I was in that business, I never heard of such a thing. I have heard of terminating jump status. They say Jomi Hendrix terminated and I almost refused to listen to fi music.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Aug 10 at 2017 12:20 PM

2017-08-10T12:20:44-04:00

When I was in the 82nd, I had a few Soldiers freeze, take an extra breath, but then exited. I never had a jump refusal as a jumpmaster. I did see one young service members in my company become a jump refusal on a BN jump. He was counseled and asked if he still wanted to jump. He agreed to jump again and was placed on the first thing smoking. Ultimately all he got, was a counseling statement. SARJE briefs that we give our jumpers always covers jump refusals and states UCMJ action, but at the end of the day, after being on jump status for over 20 years, I have only seen one. Its really up to their commander. They need to understand that Soldiers have off days, and sometimes it just doesn't feel right.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2017 1:26 PM

2017-08-13T13:26:19-04:00

I don't know as I never plan on finding out. To my understanding (I'm not a JM) you have until the Jumpmaster says "Go" a third time, though I've only ever heard/felt one "Go". I've only seen one jump refusal (not on my lift) on a UH-60 jump at Bragg. As I walked off Sicily DZ the Soldier was being quarantined on the bleachers like he had ebola awaiting JM inspections. The guy ended up getting an Article 15. I know when I was in XVIII ABC we had to sit on average 2 - 4 hours in the harness w/combat equipment, so I couldn't wait to exit the aircraft. Not really sure why anyone would want to endure that any longer. Thank God in my current unit is usually an hour or less, unless the aircraft (usually the Air Force) are running late. I prefer the consistency of Army Aviation, but now I've gone off topic. Cheers!

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Aug 15 at 2017 1:16 PM

2017-08-15T13:16:16-04:00

I never saw anyone hesitate let alone refuse. By the time you hand the jump master your static line your going out the door one way or another I'd suppose, if there's hesitation the end guys could miss the LZ and end up in trees or power lines. UCMJ my ass, the ridicule of the guys in your unit would be far worse. Peer pressure at this level is a supreme motivater , no one wants to be called a pussy, it would stick forever too.

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Aug 15 at 2017 1:54 PM

2017-08-15T13:54:50-04:00

Just to add a little humor to the subject. In basic we were visited by a chaplain. He was a LtC and had over 10,000 jumps. He was a Korea and Vietnam vet and had airborne badges etc. all over his uniform. One of the trainees asked him how many jumps he had. He looked at us very sternly and said he had never jumped from an aircraft in his life BUT he had been pushed out over 10,000 times. He was a super guy and got lots of respect from us.

Response by SSG Will Phillips made Aug 15 at 2017 2:21 PM

2017-08-15T14:21:35-04:00

I never had a jumper refuse to go. That being said JM training, required the JM to grab the jumper between his back and main chute. Unhook him and set him at the back of the aircraft under observation by the safety NCO. The jumper would not be allowed to remove any equipment as they would receive a through inspection upon landing. This was to insure that there were no safety issues with his main or reserve that was missed during JMPI or became damaged inflight that would make the trooper not want to jump. If his jump equipment was deemed OK, he was in trouble! Also ... It is a major NO NO to push a jumper out the door. If there was equipment problems and the jumper was injured or killed, (and there would be a detailed investigation) when is comes out he was pushed the jump master who helped them out the door is now up shitcreek!

Response by SGT James Belcher made Aug 16 at 2017 6:43 AM

2017-08-16T06:43:23-04:00

Im not sure what the punishment was when on aircraft...we had a guy terminate jump status after a somewhat windy jump when we got back...dude was treated like a leper. Removed wings, and got every shit detail that came up...and some I think we made up. Was out of the unit in about 2 weeks and shipped to Ft. Drum.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2017 9:44 AM

2017-08-17T09:44:11-04:00

Our Jumpmasters would kick their asses out of the plane/chopper.

Response by SGT Jeff Bush made Aug 23 at 2017 12:53 PM

2017-08-23T12:53:11-04:00

In addition to 92 it would be Art 15 usually at the unit level unless it was a Joax or a big airborne op and then could be a field grade. It's a career ender, plain and simple. If you are that scared, you likely wouldn't have gone to airborne school anyway, but pop your chest buckle after JMPI so you don't get any NJP/UCMJ then drop your status and get ready to PCS to a leg unit.

Response by SGT William Brown made Sep 3 at 2017 10:06 PM

2017-09-03T22:06:55-04:00

It depends on the reason, but most likely would have jump status terminated and reassigned to a leg unit.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2017 4:37 PM

2017-10-01T16:37:40-04:00

Jumping behind lines is an outdated skill.

Response by CPL Kevin Carns made Jan 24 at 2018 11:51 AM

2018-01-24T11:51:55-05:00

Almost five years in 1/509 never came up.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2018 3:20 PM

2018-01-24T15:20:25-05:00

SSG Aaron Marshall as soon as you enter the aircraft and refuse to jump. With that being said it is worse if you are hooked up and in the doorway as you are preventing others from jumping until they take care of you.

You can be "pardoned" if they find that there was an issue with your chute, but you have a long time to find issues up until that point. That being said if your chute suddenly falls out of the pack tray and is laying there on the floor of the aircraft you should most definitely not jump.

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Jan 24 at 2018 3:35 PM

2018-01-24T15:35:14-05:00

I can't imagine anyone who is already jump qual refusing to jump.......does it happen? How often?

Response by 1LT Rob James made Jul 31 at 2019 7:42 PM

2019-07-31T19:42:49-04:00

Never it happen to me, but the steps were of prejump. Safety will secure jumper, jm will inspect rig then a rigger.

Response by 1LT Rob James made Jul 31 at 2019 7:59 PM

2019-07-31T19:59:45-04:00

It was too easy to get off of jump status at Bragg(except for 11b) to ever have a jump refusal. I heard about a couple a year from other units. I only was a JM 7 or 8 times from high performance aircraft before transferring to USASOC. After that mostly Blackhawk or c130 tailgate or contract air. Not too sure about pvt snuffy, but an NCO or officer could end their career over a stunt like that. Who cares about UCMJ, your NCOER will say say you refused a jump.

Response by PFC Ian DeGraff made Aug 2 at 2019 1:40 PM

2019-08-02T13:40:19-04:00

Officially? Id you freeze up in the door, the jumpmaster will shout "GREEN LIGHT, GO!" in your ear three times and probably smack you on your fourth point of contact too. After three times, if you still refuse to exit the aircraft, you will be removed from the paratroop door by the jumpmaster and given a lawful to sit on your hands and not touch any of your equipment. The jumpmasters will then continue exiting jumpers. After the jump, you will be flown back to the airfield where you and your equipment will be inspected by both the safety officer of the day (can't remember the exact term they used) who also happens to be a current, qualified jumpmaster and a current, qualified parachute rigger. If any flaws are found with your equipment (which as I understood, between those two, SOMETHING jacked up would be found.) you made the right call and no action would be taken against you. If no flaws were found, you'd be turned over to your unit for punitive action, most likely an Article 15.

Unofficially- You're going out the door one way or the other. A push, a shove, a swift kick in the a**, Hell, the jumpmasters used to joke about reaching around and pulling guys' reserve 'chute if they frooze up in the door. Only saw it happen once in airborne school. Little bitty girl was the #1 man (woman?) in the stick. She frooze up, jumpmaster gave her the initial "GREEN LIGHT GO!" and then shouted "F*** IT!" and helped her out the door lol.

Response by SGT Sean Moore made Aug 3 at 2019 1:43 PM

2019-08-03T13:43:59-04:00

My fourth jump in jump school I had a bad exit and lines were twisted. No big deal... I started bicycling. Instantly I I felt wrapped in linen and then found myself tangled in another jumper’s lines. Long story short... we followed procedures and wound up landing face to face holding each other’s harness. I tried so hard for years to get to jump school that refusing was not an option. Made jump #5 that night, graduated the next day with wings. Before leaving I ran into the young troop who I tangled with. He said he’s glad he graduated but never wanted to jump again. I asked him where he was getting stationed... he said “Bragg.” He was a Combat Engineer. I laughed and said... “oh, you’re jumping again!” LOL!

Response by SPC Greg Bradley made Aug 3 at 2019 9:03 PM

2019-08-03T21:03:20-04:00

Every goes out the door. Period.

Response by 1stSgt Timothy Phillips made Aug 4 at 2019 9:49 AM

2019-08-04T09:49:33-04:00

That's why they put my big ass as jumping last in the stick. I pushed everyone in front of me and forced them out the door. I got hit in the face by static the last jumpers static line as I exited the plane. Those were the days!

Response by SFC Tom Crenshaw made Aug 4 at 2019 12:36 PM

2019-08-04T12:36:17-04:00

Lol, in my day we had the auto boot assist option.

Response by CPT Tony Baucom made Aug 6 at 2019 5:56 PM

2019-08-06T17:56:10-04:00

As a freshly minted OCS 2LT I was first to go on our first jump. The JM said when he yelled GO I needed to immediately go or he would send me out. I remember the door opening and the light turning green in my periphery then the GOOOO......blast of air, training lost to the marvel of floating and the ground coming up to me. Never hesitated and always preferred getting out compared to sitting and waiting.

Response by PFC Ignazio Como made Aug 8 at 2019 12:01 AM

2019-08-08T00:01:39-04:00

back in 1953 we were making a payjump, it was very winded i was the 19th guy i got to the i exit i thought i was seting in the iwas counting i was looking out and next i knew i was kicked out . thats want happens when you sit down nat como

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made Aug 19 at 2019 10:04 AM

2019-08-19T10:04:47-04:00

Never seen it happen but I'd think that at the very least you'd spend the rest of your life with the knowledge you're a complete bitch

Response by MAJ Norm Michaels made Aug 19 at 2019 1:09 PM

2019-08-19T13:09:20-04:00

Being a soldier is overcoming all fears and accomplishing the mission.

Response by SFC Todd Lopata made Aug 19 at 2019 4:28 PM

2019-08-19T16:28:33-04:00

Any jumper refusing to jump is a jump refusal. There is a review and thorough inspection of rigger to airborne commander investigations

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Aug 27 at 2019 2:48 PM

2019-08-27T14:48:22-04:00

They shoulda picked a different profession.

Response by MSG Lonnie Averkamp made Sep 17 at 2019 10:46 PM

2019-09-17T22:46:24-04:00

When civilians ask me how I could jump out of an airplane, I would just say, "The guy in front of me WENT, and the guy behind me is GOING TO GO, and I just happened to be IN-BETWEEN".

Response by LT John Stevens made Sep 27 at 2019 2:07 PM

2019-09-27T14:07:04-04:00

You could not get me to jump out of a perfectly good airplane unless my life depended on it. With that said, I have many friends who thought jumping out of perfectly good airplanes was "better than sex." They must have not known how to have good sex is all I can say.

I do have a funny anecdote. In 1969, I had a teacher who had only just retired from the US Army as an O-6 "full bird" Colonel. One of his last assignments had been as the Commanding officer of Second Special Forces Group, Southeast Asia. The Colonel had been a career regular army infantry officer. As an O-5, he received orders, along with notice of his promotion to O-6, to assume command of 2nd SFG. There was however a caveat. To assume this command, he had to be a Green Beret. To be a Green Beret he had to be jump qualified. So he was told, "Go get jump qualified by the fasted means possible."

The Colonel jumped into his car and drove from Washington DC to Fort Benning George carrying his orders. He explained to the CO of the School that he needed to get jump qualified but it had to be fast. The CO said, "So you want the Short Course then?" "Yes," he replied. The CO picked up the telephone, dialed a number, and said: "Please come down to my office." A few minutes later, the Command Sargeant Major (CSM) of the jump school knocked on the office door and entered. The CO told the CSM, give the Colonel here the short course and get his ass on his way. The CSM said yes sir, and told the Colonel to follow him. He was given a short classroom instruction, then taken to a hanger and shown how to don and safety check his parachute gear. He was then led to a waiting aircraft sitting on the tarmac with its engines running. The CSM told the Colonel, "climb aboard sir, we'll show you how it's done."

Once they were at altitude, the Jumpmaster explained the static line system and the warning light system. When the light turned yellow, the jumpmaster opened a door in the side of the aircraft and told the Colonel to act like he was going to jump. The Colonel walked up to the open door with some trepidation and stood in the door. He was about to ask the jumpmaster "What happens now?" when the non-com jumpmaster put his boot against the Colonel's ass and pushed him out the door.

He managed to land in the grass field without injury. A few minutes later the CSM pulls up in a Jeep, jumps out, smartly salutes the Colonel, hands him his jump wings and says, Congratulations, Sir. You are now jump qualified. A couple of days later, the Colonel was on a plane heading off to Vietnam.

The Colonel swore the story was true in every respect.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2019 3:42 PM

2019-09-28T15:42:43-04:00

I would imagine that refusing to jump being public knowledge would be sufficient punishment to a SM?

Response by PO1 Anthony Sam made Sep 29 at 2019 12:18 PM

2019-09-29T12:18:29-04:00

Kick to the Gonads or one to the Triangle

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Oct 3 at 2019 12:23 PM

2019-10-03T12:23:16-04:00

I figure along with UCMJ proceedings the loss of jump pay a nd status as an airborne qualified member would follow.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Oct 13 at 2019 2:32 PM

2019-10-13T14:32:30-04:00

I went to my PL Sgt and told him that I was not going to do the next jump.
Now the reason was not because I was scared, It was because I was getting to the point that I was not even a little nervous when jumping anymore. I told him that if I was not even a little nervous. That I felt I may not be as safe has I always had been, Therefore I could be a danger to others as well as myself. He was kind of surprised with me telling him that. Because I love to jump. I never mattered what kind of jump just as long as I could. By the time I started getting that right amount of nervousness back, I came down on orders to Ft. Drum. I never got to jump again. sucks but the safety of others does make a huge difference when it comes down to having a great time.

Response by SFC Kurt Brunken made Nov 6 at 2019 9:12 AM

2019-11-06T09:12:48-05:00

Boot to the ass in the door. If that dont work, there are numerous UCMJ and NJP measures the unit can take. Bottom line, they are a cancer on the unit and should be removed ASAP.

Response by PV2 Bob Ondown made Nov 16 at 2019 12:37 AM

2019-11-16T00:37:33-05:00

SM gets the honor of the duffle bag drag of shame, becomes one of a few to throw their jump boots over telephone wire and gets travel pay to leg land.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2019 10:41 PM

2019-11-17T22:41:52-05:00

My first question is why did they volunteered for jump school to begin with? My last question is why did they even bother to join the Airborne units? UCMJ has it’s regulations and I do believe the Airborne Units have theirs to.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2019 7:24 AM

2019-12-15T07:24:30-05:00

I was on jump status in the 90s. We never had a jump refusal. The rumor was UCMJ.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Dec 16 at 2019 11:47 AM

2019-12-16T11:47:52-05:00

Essentially, that SGM is screwed. He thought about all his time in the service, prior airborne or not and thought, I'm too old to be doing this shit... lol

Response by SGT Martha Cain made Dec 17 at 2019 5:53 AM

2019-12-17T05:53:02-05:00

I was frozen with fear, but that's the job of an incredible jump master...I can hear him til my last breath, "own your fear"~then he resumed his song..."I've got you under my skin..."; Sgm Nails was famous at Bragg & many a Cherry jumper remembers him well. In my mind, I answered his words..."or let that same fear, own you"

Response by SFC Gene Estep made Dec 17 at 2019 11:19 AM

2019-12-17T11:19:37-05:00

We had one kid who was afraid of heights terribly but his family all the way to his Grandpa has legacy 101 or 82nd, well he gets on his first jump gets to the door and freezes, I mean hands grappling anything on the bird froze, Black Hat walks up behind him drops his pants and shows a 14 incher, tells the kid you don't jump I'm gonna jam this all the way up your hairy yazzoo! Well he tells his Dad and Grandpa about this first jump experience and theyasked well did you jump and he said a little bit at first.

Response by SPC Donald Reece made Dec 19 at 2019 2:20 AM

2019-12-19T02:20:48-05:00

zzzzzzzzz

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2019 8:44 PM

2019-12-19T20:44:23-05:00

I know this one guy, who refused to jump on our first unit jump. He was a specialist, demoted and lost his wings. Crazy thing was he”refused” at manifest ,not in the door.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2019 3:23 PM

2019-12-22T15:23:17-05:00

Typically, a field grade article 15; reduction in rank, forfeiture of 1/2 month's pay for 3 months and revocation of the parachutist badge award.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2019 11:28 AM

2019-12-24T11:28:32-05:00

3 times offered a go if you freeze or don’t initiate an exit you will be a jump refusal. In my airborne career I’ve never seen a jump refusal. But they do have us a rigger and a jumpmaster check your chute if there is nothing wrong with it then it’s finalized as a refusal if there was something wrong then you are good. Just think the amount of money they spent to put u on a bird and u don’t exit.

Response by PO2 Joseph Bender made Dec 26 at 2019 5:38 PM

2019-12-26T17:38:09-05:00

When your in Airborne what part of Air don't you get. Borne means your are so familiar with Air your born to it. What the fuck did you think

Response by SPC Patrick Rodriguez made Jan 14 at 2020 8:36 AM

2020-01-14T08:36:45-05:00

I had a guy freeze in the door right in front of me , I ran him over and we came out the door as one,I will never forget it.His name was pfc alverez ,1979 ft benn ga, bravo rangers 1/29 inf (abn).

Response by SGT Brandon Culpepper made Jan 19 at 2020 2:21 PM

2020-01-19T14:21:26-05:00

Here’s how appropriately deal with a jump refusal.

Response by MAJ John Moran made Jan 22 at 2020 3:16 PM

2020-01-22T15:16:08-05:00

If the jump refusal is due to a verifiable safety issue (example, jumper discovered damage to his ‘chute harness) no penalty—I have never actually seen this happen. If the jump refusal is over fear of jumping, the soldier will have his jump status pulled by their commander, and the soldier will re-assigned out of the unit and sent elsewhere to a non-jumping unit with 30 days, needs of the Army.

Response by MAJ John Moran made Jan 22 at 2020 3:28 PM

2020-01-22T15:28:36-05:00

There are many good answers here on this topic, but none addresses the specific question, which is “can a jump refusal be prosecuted under Art. 92 UCMJ”, which I believe is no.
You can’t order a troop to jump out of an aircraft. Since the option for refusal exists in regulation, it cannot be a prosecutable offense under UCMJ to invoke a regulation.

You might be able to prosecute a jump refusal on a combat drop under Art. 99 (5) as cowardice before the enemy.

If a soldier refuses to jump, and there is no obvious safety issue with the soldier’s equipment, then that soldier is a refusal, and will almost certainly be removed from Jump status immediately. If it’s a combat drop, and the soldier was a refusal, that soldier would almost certainly be arrested upon landing for prosecution under Art. 99 UCMJ.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Jan 22 at 2020 4:06 PM

2020-01-22T16:06:38-05:00

Full disclosure: first jump in BAS, I FROZE in the door. It wasn’t even fear, it was just a bit, I dunno, overwhelming. Anyway, JM yells “JUMP, m*****f*****!!!” And I fell out of the plane.

And that was the first and last time that happened.

Response by Sgt William Margeson made Jan 23 at 2020 6:46 AM

2020-01-23T06:46:00-05:00

Simple answer, NO WINGS. In my day, stalled jumpers were pulled out of door, and sent to home unit.

Response by MAJ Jim Cook made Jan 23 at 2020 7:34 PM

2020-01-23T19:34:05-05:00

Well I must be old school refusal to jump was lose of airborne status and wings.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Jan 24 at 2020 8:40 PM

2020-01-24T20:40:20-05:00

I was a leg in an Airborne unit and the SM tried to get me to go to jump school, I told him I did not want to be Airborne but while I was in his unit, if we went to war I would suit up and jump right along with the rest. I would and that is the truth. I transfers out to a frgular unit and that was the end of that.

Response by SSG Rheta Perez made Jan 26 at 2020 8:54 AM

2020-01-26T08:54:23-05:00

My husband retired as a 1SG from the 82d. He told me about a young soldier who came to him before a jump who told him he got a premonition that if he went on the jump, he would die. 1SG told the young man that he was indeed lucky because not everyone was able to know when they were going to die and to get his ass on the plane.

Response by CPT Len Griffin made Jan 26 at 2020 11:52 AM

2020-01-26T11:52:05-05:00

It would begin on the ground. Refusal to gear up for a jump, refusal to enter the plane or refusal to exit the plane. This can cause you to have your wings revoked

Response by MAJ Charlie Jung made Jan 27 at 2020 12:49 PM

2020-01-27T12:49:40-05:00

Never seen a refusal, wished I have. I'm the smallest in my unit, I always the last man on the stick. If there going to he a refused jumper it would've been me, since I've a major fobia for height, I've never missed a drop zone.

Response by FN Jim Martin made Jan 27 at 2020 7:14 PM

2020-01-27T19:14:25-05:00

I went out twice, 20 some years after leaving the Navy, what a rush!

Response by SPC Cliff Herring made Jan 30 at 2020 10:10 AM

2020-01-30T10:10:46-05:00

If you hook up..... you're going out. Period the end.

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Jan 31 at 2020 10:50 PM

2020-01-31T22:50:31-05:00

"I am wondering what qualifies a SM (SgtMaj?) to being a jump refusal? What are you asking? If he refused a jump, the entity that qualified that status is that he refused to jump. If that is the case and it is integral to his current assignment, I would assume he is subject to whatever military law or order or regulation or SOP that requires he jump. I wouldn't jump out of a perfectly good airplane either, running out of the nose of a landing craft under direct fire must be easier. : )'

Response by PV2 Ross Bryan made Feb 16 at 2020 9:54 PM

2020-02-16T21:54:38-05:00

I SOLVED THAT PROBLEM IN FT LEONARD WOOD IN MARCH 1964 WHILE EARLY IN BASIC! I TOLD THEM I WOULD ONLY JUMP OUT OF PLANES ONLY IF THEY WERE ON FIRE, OR SURE TO CRASH!
I ENDED MY AIRBORNE CARREER BEFORE IT STARTED!

Response by PFC Kenneth Anderson made Feb 23 at 2020 3:35 PM

2020-02-23T15:35:53-05:00

Well one thing, If he was In front of Me, He would get Boot In The Ass! So that would take care of that!

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Feb 23 at 2020 5:13 PM

2020-02-23T17:13:21-05:00

first to throw him out the door is not a punishment, it is for the survival of the rest of the squad . when/if he/she makes it back, court-martial for endanger the operational survival of the unit . i have known ncos who would throw him out without strap if the integrity of the squad was to be compromised in this situation . out there, it is NOT a democracy, it is the survival of the unit .

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2020 2:53 AM

2020-02-24T02:53:23-05:00

Refusing to manifest during pre jump, refusing to exit upon green light if ok deficiency is found in your equipment.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2020 10:35 AM

2020-02-24T10:35:13-05:00

I was on jump status in the 90s. Only seen 1 jump refusal in my 5 years on jump status. Soldier had a dream the night prior he was going to die on the jump. Jump master told him to go 3 times and he refused. They sat him on the ramp and told him not to touch his equipment. Don’t know the Soldier outcome from that.

Response by PV2 Bob Ondown made Feb 24 at 2020 10:04 PM

2020-02-24T22:04:19-05:00

1979 there was a jackass that was in OUST with me at Benning. All he said was "my dad this, my dad that, blah, blah". It was nauseating. HIS DAD WAS A GENERAL.
Anyways this guy goes to Airborne school with me still talking shit. Tower week he freezes at the door and refuses to go and quits right there. I guess he made daddy proud.

Response by MSgt Harold Harris made Feb 25 at 2020 8:25 PM

2020-02-25T20:25:45-05:00

Don't ask your troops to do something that you will not do. Bottom line.

Response by PO1 Balfour Albacarys Villegas made Feb 25 at 2020 8:28 PM

2020-02-25T20:28:22-05:00

No blast too fast,
No sky too high,
You call, we fall,
Have wings will fly!
GERONIMO.....

Response by FN Charlie Spivey made Feb 27 at 2020 9:22 AM

2020-02-27T09:22:00-05:00

That is why I joined the Coast Guard. I can swim better than I can fly.

Response by SFC John Coffindaffer made Feb 28 at 2020 9:53 PM

2020-02-28T21:53:21-05:00

Are you kidding me...........must be a leg asking this question.

Response by SPC Erik Thompson made Mar 19 at 2020 12:34 PM

2020-03-19T12:34:51-04:00

Stand up, hook up, shuffle to the door,
My knees gave out and I hit the floor.
Blackhat picked me up and then,
He threw my ass into the wind.
Now I'm airborne, all the way.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2020 8:35 PM

2020-03-19T20:35:51-04:00

Why refuse!? Even after I retired I continued to jump........until my club found out that I had a metal plate in my leg (not jump related). BUMMER!? But personally, I've never known another paratrooper that refuse to go. It would be pretty difficult with a full stick pushing you from behind.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 2:26 PM

2020-03-26T14:26:08-04:00

Funny but true story, my first jump in 82nd (2006) the aircraft was full of new Soldiers from Airborne school. Green light came on and we started shuffling to the door, so the jumpmaster screamed at us to move faster. We started rushing to the door and the jumper behind me run into as I was about to exit. I hit the left side of the door and fell backwards and he made it out of the door. I was told to sit on the chair and one of the safeties told me I was a jump refusal but the safety grabbing static lines and jumpmaster told her I was not a jump refusal. I became number one jumper by default after one racetrack. After almost 14 years of jumping, the rest as they say is history.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Mar 26 at 2020 6:31 PM

2020-03-26T18:31:52-04:00

I honestly don't know. I've yet to meet an actual "jump refusal." My last jump probably should have been a jump refusal, seeing as I cracked my skull open on the PLF. BUT, I'm still alive.

Response by SSG Richard Brue made Mar 27 at 2020 5:28 AM

2020-03-27T05:28:46-04:00

I never got to go, so I hope he is maxed out.

Response by MAJ Clyde Howell made Apr 12 at 2020 11:31 AM

2020-04-12T11:31:54-04:00

As a minimum the SM loses their jump status and, perhaps, their right to wear the wings. To my knowledge there is no qualification or justification for refusing to jump. per se. That said, if there is another reason, such as a reasonable suspicion or certainty that the chute is defective, that may be another matter. however, information such as this was not included in the original question.

Response by SFC Tom Crenshaw made Apr 19 at 2020 11:44 PM

2020-04-19T23:44:25-04:00

First you order the sm to surrender their parachute. Second you order them to remove themselves from your aircraft

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2020 5:18 PM

2020-04-23T17:18:22-04:00

Kick him out. (literally)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2020 1:35 PM

2020-04-24T13:35:39-04:00

Does filing a I G complaint resolve a problem?

Response by MAJ John Lavin made Apr 24 at 2020 4:34 PM

2020-04-24T16:34:18-04:00

I went to Jump School when the 1st SG Group ran a school on Okinawa in 1967. Our first jump was out of the side door on a C-123. 2 sticks, 20 per stick. I was second in the left stick. The first jumper, the guy in front of me, hesitated at the door. The SF jump master lifted up his right leg and the door was empty. I closed my eyes and said to myself “even if I hesitate I’ll be out that door, no matter what” so I jumped. After the jump the jump master said “nobody ever doesn’t go out when it’s their turn in this school”. That first jump was just plain fun. I was hooked. Just an aside about jumping on Okinawa, back then. The 1st Group used to put out their schedules for jumps. If there was a slot and you could get OK from your commander, you could jump when you wanted. I did 10 jumps, all logged, after jump school even though I wasn’t on jump status. I understand that in todays Army this kind of stuff is a no no. Different days and different ways, I guess.

Response by SPC Patrick McNamara made Apr 26 at 2020 11:18 PM

2020-04-26T23:18:22-04:00

There is refusing to jump, and then there is freezing in the door. A refusal is declared verbally and mostly in advance of the aircraft loading. Freezing in the door is different, and in practical terms is most often remedied by a compassionate, jumpmaster-induced case of Kiwi breath, i.e. jump boot up the fourth point of contact.

Response by SGT George Stephens made Apr 27 at 2020 7:24 PM

2020-04-27T19:24:11-04:00

What is a jump refusal? I was always taught jump or get assisted in jumping

Response by LT Terry Lober made Apr 29 at 2020 4:53 AM

2020-04-29T04:53:53-04:00

Death. Maybe. Even then you will be in a world of hurt.

Response by CW4 Dana Ahl made Apr 29 at 2020 9:34 AM

2020-04-29T09:34:23-04:00

There was no punishment when I was on Jump Status. Refusal to jump was immediate termination and reassignment to a straight leg unit (never able to jump again)

Response by SPC James Butler made Apr 29 at 2020 12:28 PM

2020-04-29T12:28:08-04:00

There’s actually a formula, Boot + 4th POC = Knees in the breeze

Response by LTC Peter Hartman made Apr 30 at 2020 12:40 PM

2020-04-30T12:40:23-04:00

From my experience I know only one. He was an SMG at Division in 1991 after we got back from Desert Storm. We were doing a lot of jumps and often the wind speed safety limits were being ignored. He had a really bad landing and the next day said he wasn't going to jump anymore. He was close to retirement, I don't know what happened to him.

Response by PFC Craig Karshner made May 28 at 2020 2:13 PM

2020-05-28T14:13:45-04:00

I was always told when jumping if you go up you will jump no exceptions. I hesitated one time answering the jump Master and he pushed me. I was going but he made sure...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2020 6:31 PM

2020-06-14T18:31:40-04:00

Never saw one thank God because like others here have already said, we were given a chance to skip the jump; just don’t change your mind in the bird.

I was in a reserve airborne unit, but some of the jumpmasters who had served in the 82nd told me what happened to jump refusals. Your wings and rank were torn off you in front of your unit in addition to disciplinary action. Pretty humiliating

Bottom line: don’t go airborne if you don’t want to jump

Response by PV2 Matthew Seidel made Jul 10 at 2020 10:09 PM

2020-07-10T22:09:53-04:00

Had jump SGT. Smith ask a soldier if he was ready, and he said "no". SoSarge told he can let go and sit down. When he let go of bars, Sarge pushed him out. LOLl

Response by Maj John Bell made Jun 6 at 2023 8:45 PM

2023-06-06T20:45:11-04:00

Well... a picture is worth a thousand words.