What is the purpose of the "no profanity" policy in WLC?

2015-10-23T14:05:46-04:00

What is it that the cadre and policy makers in NCOES schools think they are accomplishing by suppressing 240 years of culture. Secondly, I don't know of anyone who after the school was like "oh I better not cuss now I'm a warrior leader"

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Oct 23 at 2015 2:14 PM

2015-10-23T14:14:22-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member wow this is a new regulation. Times have changed since I retired!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2015 2:14 PM

2015-10-23T14:14:46-04:00

Not saying I agree in all cases, but it is considered unprofessional, less intelligent, and less direct.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Oct 23 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-10-23T14:17:05-04:00

It wasn't a "rule" back in the Stone Ages when I was an SGL, lol, it was frowned upon as by today's standards it is considered unprofessional or utilized by the uneducated....occasional usage I see no problem with, however, I am not as "sensitive" as some!!

Response by SGT John Rauch made Oct 23 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-10-23T14:17:24-04:00

you are a professional. thats the purpose. to intill professionalism in young NCO's, because very few have it.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 23 at 2015 2:19 PM

2015-10-23T14:19:52-04:00

Simply put, swearing is not professional behavior.

Any form of communication that can accomplished with swearing can be done without it in an equally effective way.

It's not about "suppressing culture," it's showing that there are more tools in the toolbox than just a hammer.

The deeper into the ranks we go, the more likely we are to interact with individuals outside our specific subset, and we must be able to use our full set of communication tools. Dropping an F-bomb while standing next to the Chief of Staff's wife does not present the image of a Professional Soldier, when you can say the exact same thing without profanity, and make her giggle instead.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Oct 23 at 2015 2:22 PM

2015-10-23T14:22:27-04:00

It's probably more of a PC thing, but at the same time, some of my best Alpha Charlie's were given to me by NCO's who didn't curse. I remember as a young troop, once you started yelling I could "tune you out" being I knew what was coming next (4856, smoke session, both, hurt feelings report, green weenie, more butthurt). Later on in years, the NCO's I had were just as good, but could really "bring the pain" and not let out ONE curse word the entire time. I couldn't tune them out because I didn't know what they were going to say next. Cursing is "acceptable" in certain areas, but it shouldn't be seen as your primary means of conveying a message.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Oct 23 at 2015 2:23 PM

2015-10-23T14:23:24-04:00

It's considered unprofessional and they expect future leaders to communicate like mature adults. Yeah, we like to drop f-bombs like commas, but we should also be able to NOT do it. A few weeks of no cursing will do everyone a little good.

I only ever cleared the barracks once and it was exactly because I stopped cussing. Every soldier in the area knew that was a bad sign for anyone in my path. The shift to absolute professionalism perfectly communicated just how angry I was.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2015 2:27 PM

2015-10-23T14:27:13-04:00

It isn't about suppressing the "culture" of colorful language within the Army but a means of promoting a conductive, professional learning environment. We call our service a "Profession of Arms". The key word in that phrase being profession, by which, we are referring to ourselves as professionals. In most professional careers it is not a part of the "culture" to see who can say the word fuck the most times in a sentence but to increase the collective knowledge and abilities of all members within the same profession.

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Oct 23 at 2015 2:31 PM

2015-10-23T14:31:50-04:00

1. its unprofessional to use profane language in a professional settling.
2. when you don't use that kind of language you as a leader will be seen as a better person and as a professional soldier.
3. that kind of language can promote a hostile environment and you could be looking at a complaint which could go on your record and worst case scenario you could be reduced in rank.
4. when you look and act the part of an NCO you will be respected by others.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 23 at 2015 2:42 PM

2015-10-23T14:42:57-04:00

I'll take it a step further and blow your brain housing group SSG Private RallyPoint Member. Back in the 1992 PLDC day, I was sent from Fort Irwin, CA to attend the academy at Fort Hood, TX. It is very possible that I was one of the first TRADOC safety kills for profanity when we were in the field. So much for violence of action. TRADOC has always been a world upon itself. How Drill Sergeants don't have stress induced heart attacks or bite their bottom lips clean off is beyond my comprehension. If anyone else was a 'profanity safety kill' prior to 1992 please let me know so I may pass the torch of disbelief to you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2015 3:05 PM

2015-10-23T15:05:33-04:00

It's a professionalism block. Most Soldiers drop an F-bomb from time to time but many don't have any other vocabulary than 4 letter words. The school house; weather PME, or
MOS schools is a time to reinforce the fact that we are proffesionals and need to communicate as such

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2015 3:08 PM

2015-10-23T15:08:19-04:00

I can see why they are doing it. I always here the term the Army is a Profession and we are Professionals, so with my thinking is if we are going to walk around as professionals then we better start talking like professionals, I have asked Senior NCOs and Officers alike to please watch their mouths in my work are. I am not saying that i dont cuss or things like that but the work place isnt the best place to drop the F-Bomb 20 times in a conversation.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Oct 23 at 2015 3:22 PM

2015-10-23T15:22:53-04:00

Words and actions represent who we are as an individual, in our family, and in our profession. It all represents you. Leaders inspire: words and action.

Do you want to be viewed as a professional and as a leader? The choice of words is yours.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Oct 23 at 2015 3:45 PM

2015-10-23T15:45:18-04:00

Huh? I went in 2011, and I don't remember hearing that one. Maybe its new. Perhaps its about learning "professionalism". I do know that in combat arms, the Infantry specifically, you don't greet people in the morning without dropping F-bombs regardless of the rank of those doing the greeting. Even in the Reserves there is cussing, but not in WLC now...okay.

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Oct 23 at 2015 4:02 PM

2015-10-23T16:02:41-04:00

Warrior Leader? Is that what we call it today? SMH.....

As best I can remember this started way back in 91 when as an Operations Sergeant in an AIT Training Company we were told not to use derogatory comments toward the students nor were we to smoke within site of the students. The stupidity of it all was one of the reasons I retired....

Response by SGT Jimmy Carpenter made Oct 23 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-10-23T16:30:13-04:00

I went through PLDC in 1996 I think and there was a no profanity rule in place then. Being a grunt, it was very difficult to refrain from profanity but I managed. It's understandable the reasoning behind it, it's considered "unprofessional" to use profanity, even (probably) more so in the civilian world.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 23 at 2015 4:35 PM

2015-10-23T16:35:07-04:00

Profanity is a violation of the UCMJ, Article 134, Indecent Language. The "point" is adherence to military policy/ law. It's not political correctness, it's not coddling, and it's certainly not new. It's been the law for decades. We just happen to be a part of several generations where everyone discusses regulations without reading them.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2015 6:38 PM

2015-10-23T18:38:35-04:00

Well that's ****ing stupid....

On a more serious note, I think context and situation is important. I would say it's unprofessional to cuss while briefing the Battalion Commander in a garrison setting. However, on a STX lane or in an actual firefight it's more important you get your message across. When bullets start flying the last thing I'm thinking about is how many four letter words I use.

Response by MSG Kevin Elliott made Oct 23 at 2015 9:12 PM

2015-10-23T21:12:19-04:00

It has always been about professionalism, and I'll date myself my saying I went through PNCOC in 1981, BNCOC in 1984, and ANCOC in 1987. It was like that back then, but that didn't mean you wouldn't be taken to the woodline for a little one-on-one, that might include some profanity.
One of my Brigade Commanders explained that he used language appropriate to the situation. This was based on his experiences in Viet Nam and people getting wounded and killed because he flet he didn't get the point across when he didn't curse. Great leader, no matter what.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2015 11:30 PM

2015-10-23T23:30:40-04:00

I don't even want to write something about this one. But it's the army. If you can't handle getting cussed at then don't mess up and you won't hear them terrible words to hurt your feelings. Can't handle it get out. I got cussed out many times and I am happy I did cause I never made them mistakes again. It didn't hurt my feelings. And if you hear a conversation that has nothing to do with you and they cuss who cares. Keep to yourself. People are weak period. Anyone have that Hurt Feelings Report!.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Oct 23 at 2015 11:37 PM

2015-10-23T23:37:11-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member That was, is, and continues to be "official" policy. In 1966, a CSM had a talk w/ me abt my verbiage. I recall saying, Yes , Sergeant Major! I still cannot recall what he was talking abt!

Damn; now I recall a later CSM having similar words w/ me abt my addressing him as a ??????

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 10:17 AM

2015-10-24T10:17:20-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I F___ing agree with you. Soldiers use rough language. Get over yourself.

Kinda like complaining about seeing nakie people in a locker-room.

Response by SSG David Spooner made Oct 24 at 2015 10:48 AM

2015-10-24T10:48:01-04:00

You can be professional and not curse. Yeah, I've dropped my fair share of F bombs and other 4 letter words, which were usually directed at a Soldier who had stepped on his johnson. But the most effective butt chewing I recieved in my 20+ years involved no loud voice, almost zero eye contact and not a single cuss word. When I left MSG Duvalls office, I walked under the door. So you can get your point across extremely effectively and not use a loud or profane voice.

Response by CSM Jim Morrison made Oct 24 at 2015 11:59 AM

2015-10-24T11:59:07-04:00

Enforceable????

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Oct 24 at 2015 12:52 PM

2015-10-24T12:52:57-04:00

Here is what General George Washington thought of the "culture" of profanity: "The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing, a vice hitherto little known in our American Army is growing into fashion. He hopes that the officers will, by example as well as influence, endeavor to check it and that both they and the men will reflect that we can little hope of the blessing of Heaven on our army if we insult it by our impiety and folly. Added to this it is a vice so mean and low without any temptation that every man of sense and character detests and despises it." http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/washington/profanity.html

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Oct 24 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-10-24T13:21:27-04:00

Professionalism and the NCO Creed. "No one is More Proffesional than I"

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Oct 24 at 2015 1:24 PM

2015-10-24T13:24:01-04:00

Profanity should be used sparingly. There is a time and place for everything and Gen Patton understood that much very well -- at least when it came to motivating his troops.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George S. Patton's speech to the Third Army:

"Be seated.

Men, all this stuff you hear about America not wanting to fight, wanting to stay out of the war, is a lot of bullshit. Americans love to fight. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, the big-league ball players and the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. That's why Americans have never lost and will never lose a war. The very thought of losing is hateful to Americans. Battle is the most significant competition in which a man can indulge. It brings out all that is best and it removes all that is base.

You are not all going to die. Only two percent of you right here today would be killed in a major battle. Every man is scared in his first action. If he says he's not, he's a goddamn liar. But the real hero is the man who fights even though he's scared. Some men will get over their fright in a minute under fire, some take an hour, and for some it takes days. But the real man never lets his fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to his country, and his innate manhood.

All through your army career you men have bitched about what you call 'this chicken-shit drilling.' That is all for a purpose—to ensure instant obedience to orders and to create constant alertness. This must be bred into every soldier. I don't give a fuck for a man who is not always on his toes. But the drilling has made veterans of all you men. You are ready! A man has to be alert all the time if he expects to keep on breathing. If not, some German son-of-a-bitch will sneak up behind him and beat him to death with a sock full of shit. There are four hundred neatly marked graves in Sicily, all because one man went to sleep on the job—but they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep before his officer did.

An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, and fights as a team. This individual hero stuff is bullshit. The bilious bastards who write that stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real battle than they do about fucking. And we have the best team—we have the finest food and equipment, the best spirit and the best men in the world. Why, by God, I actually pity these poor bastards we're going up against.

All the real heroes are not storybook combat fighters. Every single man in the army plays a vital role. So don't ever let up. Don't ever think that your job is unimportant. What if every truck driver decided that he didn't like the whine of the shells and turned yellow and jumped headlong into a ditch? That cowardly bastard could say to himself, 'Hell, they won't miss me, just one man in thousands.' What if every man said that? Where in the hell would we be then? No, thank God, Americans don't say that. Every man does his job. Every man is important. The ordnance men are needed to supply the guns, the quartermaster is needed to bring up the food and clothes for us because where we are going there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every last damn man in the mess hall, even the one who boils the water to keep us from getting the GI shits, has a job to do.

Each man must think not only of himself, but think of his buddy fighting alongside him. We don't want yellow cowards in the army. They should be killed off like flies. If not, they will go back home after the war, goddamn cowards, and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed more brave men. Kill off the goddamn cowards and we'll have a nation of brave men.

One of the bravest men I saw in the African campaign was on a telegraph pole in the midst of furious fire while we were moving toward Tunis. I stopped and asked him what the hell he was doing up there. He answered, 'Fixing the wire, sir.' 'Isn't it a little unhealthy up there right now?' I asked. 'Yes sir, but this goddamn wire has got to be fixed.' I asked, 'Don't those planes strafing the road bother you?' And he answered, 'No sir, but you sure as hell do.' Now, there was a real soldier. A real man. A man who devoted all he had to his duty, no matter how great the odds, no matter how seemingly insignificant his duty appeared at the time.

And you should have seen the trucks on the road to Gabès. Those drivers were magnificent. All day and all night they crawled along those son-of-a-bitch roads, never stopping, never deviating from their course with shells bursting all around them. Many of the men drove over 40 consecutive hours. We got through on good old American guts. These were not combat men. But they were soldiers with a job to do. They were part of a team. Without them the fight would have been lost.

Sure, we all want to go home. We want to get this war over with. But you can't win a war lying down. The quickest way to get it over with is to get the bastards who started it. We want to get the hell over there and clean the goddamn thing up, and then get at those purple-pissing Japs. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. So keep moving. And when we get to Berlin, I am personally going to shoot that paper-hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler.

When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a Boche will get him eventually. The hell with that. My men don't dig foxholes. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have or ever will have. We're not just going to shoot the bastards, we're going to rip out their living goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun cocksuckers by the bushel-fucking-basket.

Some of you men are wondering whether or not you'll chicken out under fire. Don't worry about it. I can assure you that you'll all do your duty. War is a bloody business, a killing business. The Nazis are the enemy. Wade into them, spill their blood or they will spill yours. Shoot them in the guts. Rip open their belly. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt from your face and you realize that it's not dirt, it's the blood and gut of what was once your best friend, you'll know what to do.

I don't want any messages saying 'I'm holding my position.' We're not holding a goddamned thing. We're advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding anything except the enemy's balls. We're going to hold him by his balls and we're going to kick him in the ass; twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all the time. Our plan of operation is to advance and keep on advancing. We're going to go through the enemy like shit through a tinhorn.

There will be some complaints that we're pushing our people too hard. I don't give a damn about such complaints. I believe that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder we push, the more Germans we kill. The more Germans we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed. Pushing harder means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that. My men don't surrender. I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he is hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight. That's not just bullshit either. I want men like the lieutenant in Libya who, with a Luger against his chest, swept aside the gun with his hand, jerked his helmet off with the other and busted the hell out of the Boche with the helmet. Then he picked up the gun and he killed another German. All this time the man had a bullet through his lung. That's a man for you!

Don't forget, you don't know I'm here at all. No word of that fact is to be mentioned in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell they did with me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this army. I'm not even supposed to be in England. Let the first bastards to find out be the goddamned Germans. Some day, I want them to rise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl 'Ach! It's the goddamned Third Army and that son-of-a-bitch Patton again!'

Then there's one thing you men will be able to say when this war is over and you get back home. Thirty years from now when you're sitting by your fireside with your grandson on your knee and he asks, 'What did you do in the great World War Two?' You won't have to cough and say, 'Well, your granddaddy shoveled shit in Louisiana.' No sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say 'Son, your granddaddy rode with the great Third Army and a son-of-a-goddamned-bitch named George Patton!'

All right, you sons of bitches. You know how I feel. I'll be proud to lead you wonderful guys in battle anytime, anywhere. That's all."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton%27s_speech_to_the_Third_Army

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 2:42 PM

2015-10-24T14:42:50-04:00

There is always a time and place for cussing. In the field with your fellow battles, in the barracks, out on the town or even down range. In garrison is where you have to really pay attention to what you are saying because you never know who's listening. Smoking and Joking has been part of our history for over Two Hundred Years.

Just my $0.02

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 6:31 PM

2015-10-24T18:31:05-04:00

Cussing, swearing while being unprofessional adds to the aire of intimidation. What kind of results, as a leader, do you get when you intimidate?

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Oct 24 at 2015 6:33 PM

2015-10-24T18:33:03-04:00

So, the line in the NCO Creed... "No one is more professional than I..." I realize the Creed is younger than me, but does it suppress NCOs--or does professionalism not include refraining from uncontrolled profanity?

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Oct 24 at 2015 8:16 PM

2015-10-24T20:16:56-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, I enlisted on 9AUG69, came up through the ranks and there is no profanity, Army or otherwise, that I have not heard or used, and sometimes used with great frequency and eloquence (a la GEN George Patton)!
However, I was a Tactical (training) Officer at OCS for a few years, and I made a conscious decision to not use any profanity when addressing officer candidates. I never put my hands on one either. I felt like if I was training future officers (and ladies and gentlemen), I'd try to behave that way myself. That was just me, and no superior officer even suggested it. However, the lack of use of profanity did not diminish my job effectiveness in the least. If I felt an officer candidate was not up to standard and needed to leave OCS, believe me, he/she left!
I also did a tour as a detailed inspector general, and as a general rule, the words that I wanted to say were most often shelved and delivered in a much more benevolent and polite manner.
Otherwise, it was Army language as usual!

Response by MSG Michael Shannon made Oct 24 at 2015 8:41 PM

2015-10-24T20:41:30-04:00

as a former WLC instructor I can tell you that if I was standing up in front of you dropping f-bombs every other minute you probably wouldn't listen much. I can also tell you that your MOS or how many deployments you have should not determine how often you get to cuss. In a school house environment such as WLC it is a mix of MOSs from 11B to 91L with male and female Soldiers. Not all Soldiers care for the colorful language that others have become a custom to. Save the F bombs for the field or your fire team and leave them out of school and public areas.... you'll drop it at the wrong time in front of the wrong CSM (who may have been with his daughter at lunch) one day... trust me!

Response by SFC Brian Ewing made Oct 24 at 2015 9:15 PM

2015-10-24T21:15:18-04:00

Indecent Language is clearly under Article 134, what is the point of using such profane language anyway when none of it makes sense anyway and most people don't even know what half of it means or even where it originated from.

Would you want your kids to talk that way to you? If you do it then they will do it!! There is always a better way or better word to use to say what you have to say and still get your point across as effectively as if you used profanity.

It isn't culture, it's ignorance!! Just so you know, I was Infantry too!!

Response by SFC David Brunk made Oct 24 at 2015 9:26 PM

2015-10-24T21:26:31-04:00

I'm 58 and have cussed more in the past 5 years than I had in my entire life. When I was a Drill Sergeant, I rarely cussed but if my cruits head me cussing they knew to duck and cove because the 'Nuke' (an old Army nickname) was about to go off. There are soooo many different ways to verbalize why stick to the same ... tho I do use 'shit' on a regular basis! LOL

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Oct 24 at 2015 11:59 PM

2015-10-24T23:59:35-04:00

Look at it this way the use of profanity is often thought to show a lack of command of the English language. If you want to get your point across speak to people with respect. Many people such as myself feel the use of profanity is not necessary and unprofessional

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 7:32 AM

2015-10-25T07:32:21-04:00

Well, actually it's a violation in the UCMJ 24/7. Good luck enforcing that one. I think 90+ percent of of service members would have at least 1 AR15 on this one.

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-29.htm

UCMJ - Article 134 - (Indecent language)

Punitive articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Includes information from the Manual for Court Martial (MCM), 2002, including text from the UCMJ, elements of proof, explanation of offenses, and maximum permissible punishment under military court-martial.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 9:20 AM

2015-10-25T09:20:09-04:00

This suppression is one of the best things I have heard about. If you can't communicate as a professional, then you don't deserve the stripes.

I am not all against cussing, but the level the army is at disgusts me.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 12:32 PM

2015-10-25T12:32:46-04:00

It has been said clearly by many in several different ways about professionalism to your post, this includes the regulation govern this action.

Remember, we are an example to what the World sees and our actions however small and minuet changes the worlds view, simply, we're Ambassadors like it or not.

When a Soldier makes a mistake, it doesn't single them out but brands the Military or specifically the branch that owns them within their ranks. People formulate opinions based on our actions and the results taken especially when it violates their opinion to what should've been done. Not to stray too far off, we tend to want more severe punishment for others but mercy when we're in the line of fire.

There's many regulations, MILPER messages and policies that are not adhered too but over the years have been updated and brought to light to change a pattern of behavior that has caused much incidents and concerns within the unit, battalion, etc., the military branch or DoD.

The truth, professionalism is a must, would working at a Top 500 organization be acceptable with this behavior? Would it create workplace hardship? Professionalism to how we speak and carry ourselves is critical for effective communication that leads into diversity. Diversity has many avenues [layers] that goes beyond race, color, gender, sexual orientation, religion, socioeconomics, etc. The point... The Military has a "Zero Tolerance" for EO situations among other areas such as SHARP, Drugs, etc.

My advise to those wanting a deeper understanding, not just the, "Regulation say so" but to be able to advise those who needs a better understanding, research diversity and workplace hostilities. Look at languages in the workplace. None of us wants to be belittled so we shouldn't do it ourselves, therefore we need to learn better ways to communicate effectively to bridge together our differences and become a better T.E.A.M.-S. (Together Each Achieve More - Successfully). As NCOs we need to keep it N.C.O. (Neat Clean and Orderly).

This was suppose to be my two cents but I seemed to have drop a few more coins.

To close, In 2006, when I was an instructor at WLC, an incident occurred when some Soldiers were playing and asking questions about a scene in Living Color to which a Soldier who was an MP stated the correct answer using the N-word. This sparked several issues the following day later when the instructor present said everyone laughed.

The point, the regulation clearly states the use of certain words that resulted in the Soldier [MP] not being able to work traffic and endure other issues with his unit.

Certain professions must watch these strict guidelines as there job depends upon professionalism, such as law enforcement, medical, dental, etc.

This is not the complete reason for not cursing but it should help clarify some possible reasons, besides, if my children curse, well, I don't need a regulation to take action.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Oct 25 at 2015 1:16 PM

2015-10-25T13:16:34-04:00

Here is the "out"- always has been-
"the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces. "

If the profanity is not "prejudice of good order and discipline" , it is not against the reg.

Response by MSgt Daniel Attilio made Oct 25 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-10-25T14:17:10-04:00

I cannot recall any of the instructors at Career Course or Advance Course employing profanity as element in conveying ideas and lessons. Nor can I think back to those leaders I considered impressive as resorting to profanity to get a message across. Sure it came out occasionally and then there were the rare times you were bathed in profanity but that was not in groups, it was always a heated and targeted application. Profanity is not a norm amongst professionals.

Response by SFC James Needles made Oct 25 at 2015 2:32 PM

2015-10-25T14:32:34-04:00

Curtailing the use of profanity in WLC or any NCOES course for that matter is not about suppressing a culture or tradition. It is entirely about focusing on the course work to make your self a better NCO and leader. Its about professionalism and using tact to express your concerns, points of view, instructions and motivating others. No one expects all soldiers to just stop swearing because they set foot into an NCO Academy, that's just not going to happen. When you, however, as an NCO are conducting training you need the soldiers you are training to be focused on the training material and the lessons. Use of profanity can often be a distraction to the troops. I know this from personal experience, having been the NCO conducting training and reading AAR's later on and being advised by my superiors that my use of profanity was not only offensive to some of the soldiers but was also a distraction. That happened only one time. If you cant effectively train and get the information to your soldiers then your not effective as an NCO. I was once told that swearing does not impress people, it merely shows how illiterate you are.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Oct 25 at 2015 2:51 PM

2015-10-25T14:51:05-04:00

A "look" can say so much more than words. Learn how to cuss with your eyes and you'll motivate rocks to move out with alacrity...

Response by SPC Luis Mendez made Oct 25 at 2015 3:55 PM

2015-10-25T15:55:27-04:00

They may be looking for more brainiacs! IOW people with more Intellectual and Mental prowess who can actually solve problems and maybe even win wars or at least some major decisive battles.

Response by SSG Chris B. made Oct 25 at 2015 4:13 PM

2015-10-25T16:13:19-04:00

Well, when I went through it years ago, the policy was clearly there to attempt to give all the students aneurisms. It was successful at keeping me off the commandant's list as well.

Response by Cpl Robert Masi made Oct 25 at 2015 5:50 PM

2015-10-25T17:50:08-04:00

Is Swearing going to hurt someone's fragile Sensibilities? I think I've figured it out. Liberals only want soft and pathetic people to join the Military, because those are the only people interested in that BULLSHIT.

Response by SSG Fred Campbell made Oct 25 at 2015 8:36 PM

2015-10-25T20:36:45-04:00

What's a "warrior leader"??

Response by SGT David Plaster made Oct 25 at 2015 9:47 PM

2015-10-25T21:47:11-04:00

Response by SFC Don Ward made Oct 25 at 2015 10:19 PM

2015-10-25T22:19:30-04:00

You obviously don't know what the word "culture" means. The Army does not have a culture of bad language, any more than the infantry has a culture of growing idiots. Words do mean something, and if you have to rely on profanity you need to go back to school.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 11:08 PM

2015-10-25T23:08:16-04:00

We have become a candy army. We are an organization designed to kill people and break things, and now we do this politely, with professional PC. Awesome, hope your future enemies enjoy your rigid professionalism...

Response by MSG Alfred Aguilar made Oct 25 at 2015 11:12 PM

2015-10-25T23:12:41-04:00

F#@k...

Response by SFC Stephen King made Oct 26 at 2015 10:03 AM

2015-10-26T10:03:47-04:00

I was once told that if you are a person who uses colorful language all the time ie..the F word.

It losses it's EFFECTIVENESS. However, a well place F in a conversation can be very EFFECTIVE.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2015 12:14 PM

2015-10-26T12:14:40-04:00

It's kind of funny how the army takes people's emotions into account for somethings while completely disregarding the majority of things such as the lies of recruiting and the ever-growing culture of blue falconry (to which this policy adds to). To regulate language in such a manner is profoundly criminal. WE swore an oath to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic. This equates to being against the constitution and the freedom of speech and writing which means it is our enemy. NOTE: This argument does not mean that constant swearing isn't bad form, but that will be demonstrated by performance reviews as well as the social reaction of peers, seniors, and subordinates. It's a fine line to walk, but we all must ask if our actions or policies go against the most fundamental and primary requirement of our jobs regardless of our rank, position, and dispositions which is to -uphold and defend the constitution. Anything else is secondary and tertiary and if it goes against it must be abolished.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Oct 27 at 2015 12:03 PM

2015-10-27T12:03:04-04:00

You operate under the misconception that profanity has been in the ranks and acceptable for 240 years. It has not. The fact is, too many NCOs (and officers) think they sound tough and can intimidate privates by cussing. The truth is that in today's society, these kids here worse from their parents and Saturday morning cartoons and video games. Most of you sound like you are trying to quote Full Metal Jacket. You want to really shock and impress a new Soldier, be in charge and show him professionalism.

Response by SFC Andrew Eby made Oct 27 at 2015 1:05 PM

2015-10-27T13:05:40-04:00

As a Senior NCOES Instructor in the late 1980s, I taught the NCOs that it was unprofessional to swear or use derogatory remarks as a Non-Commissioned Officer. As a student, you are not in your unit, but in student status. You can only be evaluated as a student by the artificial stresses placed on you to see how you react. It takes discipline and moral courage to control your tongue. In the old days, NCOs were not professional. Once NCOES was established, a whole new ballgame. You need to review the Creed of the Non-Commissioned Officer. I personally taught 103 Cycles of PLDC in addition to BNCOC and ANCOC. I trained and "Murder Boarded" many Instructors as well. Thus you need to check your cussing at the door and exercise discipline and professionalism. Cussing only cheapens your conduct and deportment.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Oct 27 at 2015 1:35 PM

2015-10-27T13:35:47-04:00

I would say it goes along with the on going pussification we have already endured because wussies are offended. It started when they began modifying our cadences and sensitivity training then showed up for THIS mess...GOOD LUCK my friend they are cutting 33 COMBAT brigade soon.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Oct 27 at 2015 1:38 PM

2015-10-27T13:38:53-04:00

UCMJ has never been subject to the constitution is the service your constitutional rights are no longer applicable.

Response by CPT Endre Barath made Oct 27 at 2015 1:47 PM

2015-10-27T13:47:36-04:00

Having been in the Infantry as an Airborne, Ranger I appreciate the question. To answer the question let me digress. The better we can express ourselves the clearer our message will be to those we are trying to communicate. People will actually understand us faster if we eliminate the F-bomb every third word in a sentence. The F-bomb not only hinders the communication, but it is also a sign of a lack of vocabulary to express ourselves. The average person uses about 3-5000 word vocabulary. Someone like William F Buckle,Jr. had a conversational use of about 10,000 words. Every one understood what he said, politicians, reporters and the average american. By dropping the four letter words we will not hurt or hinder us rather help us. It took me quite a while to drop my Salt & Pepper language when I left the military and it was just a "bad" habit. RLTW! it is not RLTFW:))

Response by SGT Robert R. made Oct 27 at 2015 2:44 PM

2015-10-27T14:44:33-04:00

You don't have to use profanity to get your point across, or to be a warrior. Sometimes you can stretch the limits of your intelligence and be creative in your diction instead of being seen as a leader with a lower level of unprofessional intelligence.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-10-27T18:53:59-04:00

It's a matter of professionalism and maturity. You will get there

Response by SSG Daniel Deiler made Oct 28 at 2015 10:39 AM

2015-10-28T10:39:14-04:00

Drinking was and could still certainly be argued that drinking is a huge part of Military culture. It has attributed to many deaths, injuries, broken families and dreams, and has killed many a career. I doubt you would advocate that alcohol be glorified and supported by today's professional Soldier. Just like the glorification of alcohol, cussing is neither professional not conducive to a professional work environment. We're not talking about when bullets are flying...but when in a garrison or work environment, (whether that is at a range, an office or the bay of the motor pool) cussing has no place in the profession of Arms or oft used tool in a leaders toolbox.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2015 12:03 PM

2015-10-28T12:03:15-04:00

check the UCMJ, its against the UCMJ to use profanity.

Response by SGT Edward Valiket made Oct 28 at 2015 12:53 PM

2015-10-28T12:53:28-04:00

I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying I cannot believe how sissyfied the military is becoming

Response by MSG Dan Foster made Oct 28 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-10-28T12:59:17-04:00

I can't speak for current policy but personally I believe it may have something to do with professionalism. I grew up a "Navy Brat" , raised by a WWII original "Bad Ass" UDT/SEAL. Don't ever remember my father dropping the F bomb in front of my mom and/or brothers and sister. I served 20 plus years and never felt I had to use four letter words to express myself and/or get the message across in any situation. If one chooses to "cuss" I only ask they not do so in front of my wife, daughters and grandchildren. There is a time and a place, be smart, be professional, and be courteous.

Response by SSG Robert Spina made Oct 28 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-10-28T13:19:31-04:00

A FEW PEOPLE COMMENT THAT PROFANITY IS UN PROFESSIONAL AND IT IS IN THE BUSINESS WORLD BUT ON THE BATTLEFIELD THATS ANOTHER STORY JUST A REMINDER ONE OF OUR NATIONS GREATEST LEADERS GEN PATTON WAS KNOWN TO THROW THE F BOMB QUITE OFTEN I BELIEVE IT WAS PROBABLY DUE TO HIS INTENSITY AND A MOTIVATIONAL TOOL MY POINT BEING THAT THROWING AROUND THE F BOMB NOW AND THEN IS NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING UNLESS YOUR WORKING WITH A SUITE AND TIE IN A MANHATTAN OFFICE JUST MY TAKE ON IT

Response by COL John Power made Oct 28 at 2015 4:59 PM

2015-10-28T16:59:56-04:00

Perhaps it is because profanity reflects a lack of vocabulary, demeaning the image of the user. It can offend many people in our society. It doesn't carry any more meaning and makes you sound like a jerk. And who wants to follow a jerk? It isn't an easy habit to break, but once you have done so you really are much better for it. Those you lead will actually respect you more and follow you. Isn't that the purpose of the school?

Response by COL David S. made Oct 28 at 2015 5:01 PM

2015-10-28T17:01:35-04:00

Between 1996 and 2003 I worked at the Pentagon. During that period I once heard profanity. It was not commented upon, but it did not occur again. It does not aid the work effort and is not professional. Perhaps the NCOES schools are trying to make a point about professionalism.

Response by MSG Jim Gawne made Oct 28 at 2015 8:50 PM

2015-10-28T20:50:37-04:00

Sergeant Sharpe - when I went through the NCO Academy 40 something years ago (which later became PNCOC) there was no rule against profanity. It just wasn't used, either by students or cadre. This continued through ANCOC and First Sergeant's School. There is no need for profanity in speech or writing, other than to shock or surprise. Tone of voice and an expanded vocabulary will do the same, without shocking or insulting others. Good luck to you in your career, and try to keep those unnecessary profanities out of your speech.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2015 1:59 PM

2015-10-29T13:59:27-04:00

There is a standing order from General George Washington that states as a soldier and a professional you should refrain from using profanity in and out of uniform. It gives the wrong image not only of yourself but also of the ARMY and America.

Response by MSG Chuck Pewsey made Oct 29 at 2015 2:05 PM

2015-10-29T14:05:05-04:00

About the time I was in basic, Linden Johnson outlawed cussing - screwed up some great Jody calls.

Response by PFC Janice Mayer made Oct 29 at 2015 3:24 PM

2015-10-29T15:24:45-04:00

First sentence of the NCO creed. NO ONE IS MORE PROFESSIONAL THAN I. Last sentence of the NCO creed. I WILL NOT FORGET, NOR WILL I ALLOW MY COMRADES TO FORGET THAT WE ARE PROFESSIONALS, NON-COMMISIONED OFFICERS, LEADERS! Cursing is not necessary to convey a message. As soldier we -mostly-all curse, but, you are no longer an ordinary soldier, you are now a leader, role model, and mentor of others. Be the professional that you have earned the right to be. And don't give me that "I'm infantry, I'm combat arms crap- (I can curse with the best of them), I don't need you to say the F-bomb to know I have to do the job you say.

Response by 1LT John Unden made Oct 29 at 2015 3:54 PM

2015-10-29T15:54:37-04:00

I have to agree with you Sharpie. We need more action and to stop making useless rules. Officers are supposed to be gentlemen, so I can see us pulling back on our own vocab (a little) for the public eye and to set a better example, but Enlisted and NCOs need to be able to do what it takes to get the job done and get the message across. I used to be enlisted and an NCO so I've seen, given, and taken from all sides. We are all in the business of winning wars, not sending people to the middle school principal's office.

Response by MSG David Clifford made Oct 29 at 2015 4:07 PM

2015-10-29T16:07:31-04:00

From the papers of General George Washington:
The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing, a vice hitherto little known in our American Army is growing into fashion. He hopes that the officers will, by example as well as influence, endeavor to check it and that both they and the men will reflect that we can little hope of the blessing of Heaven on our army if we insult it by our impiety and folly. Added to this it is a vice so mean and low without any temptation that every man of sense and character detests and despises it.

(Signed,) George Washington

Just because those before us couldn't express themselves without profanity, does not mean we have to lower ourselves to that standard.

MSG(R) Clifford

Response by CSM Harold Burleson made Oct 29 at 2015 4:55 PM

2015-10-29T16:55:30-04:00

In reference to your comment on "suppressing 240 years of culture" I think you are referring to a Culture of Profanity you think is acceptable in our military ranks: Since listening to my Mentors decades ago from the Cold War and believing in them by following their Lead, I have been a Big Fan of the "No Profanity" common sense approach. Teaching our Warrior Leaders to Stand Up and give a Clean Speech to a mixed audience of military personnel and civilians is a Challenge that must be overcome at the primary level. After all, these young warriors are our future and we want them to be the very best in the business of representing our military on a professional level. They will not have to hesitate or be fearful of speaking when someone shove a microphone and camera in their face in an attempt to broadcast the information to a wide-range of listeners and viewers, maybe worldwide or presented on social media. Long Story Short; would you want to stand up and give a speech to a broad audience with your speech interlaced with profanity? If the answer is Yes, then I would like to be in the audience and have a word of prayer with you afterwards. You will have a life changing experience for the good, thanks to someone that deeply cares about others!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2015 4:57 PM

2015-10-29T16:57:47-04:00

My 1st SGT in basic was from Louisiana and had a fourth grade education. I took basic at Polk. He could not speak without every other word a nasty cuss word, and I mean nasty. I can't repeat some of the things he said on RP, but all it did for me was realize how ignorant he was. The training NCO's were very professional and taught me a lot about structure, thinking ahead, and how to be a good soldier. It paid off when I went to Nam. I didn't feel as lost and confused as some my friends did. I paid it forward by helping them to understand better what was expected from them in combat situations. The first thing I tried to instill in them was self confidence. I thought if they could develop that, everything else would fall into place. I never swore or showed any disrespect to them. They l in turn, respected me, and trusted me.

Response by CPL Terry Whalen made Oct 29 at 2015 5:50 PM

2015-10-29T17:50:43-04:00

If a person in a leadership position feels the need to swear in order to solicite a proper response form a fellow soldier than they need to become a better leader, because they are lacking the proper skills necessary. It's shows a complete lack of respect and gentleman qualities that is sorely lacking in today's leaders and that goes from the top down. Whatever happened to decency and professionalism.

Response by CSM Troy McGilvray made Oct 29 at 2015 6:03 PM

2015-10-29T18:03:49-04:00

I entered the Army in 1956. During basic training and AIT I was a trainee squad leader. Later, I became a fire team leader, a squad leader, a platoon sergeant, a 1st Sergeant, then a brigade operations sergeant, then an armored battalion CSM, then a supply and transport battalion CSM, then a brigade. I never used profanity around my men and as i progressed up in positions of responsibility, my men never used profanity when talking with me. Good leaders do not need to use profanity. In fact, I knew many officers and senior NCOs that considered an individuals's vocabulary when filling out efficiency ratings. I worked for eight LTCs and COLs.........not one of them resorted to profanity....and two of them became general officers.....one three stars. That was in my career of 26 years, 5 months, and 2 days of service

Profanity is unprofessional........whether in combat or civilian life.

Retired CSM, US Army

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Oct 29 at 2015 6:36 PM

2015-10-29T18:36:55-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner. What the f--k? I suppose there in son more passing a jug of hooch around in the barracks, or "take five, smoke em if you got em." Warriors Leader Course"? Isn't that for Boy Scouts? I suppose in BCT the size ten up the six when you f--k up is out to. They still must wake you up at 0100 and have a GI party and clean the barracks floor with tooth brushes. Do you still do ten pull ups, knuckles out to get into the mess hall in BCT or AIT?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2015 8:19 PM

2015-10-29T20:19:19-04:00

I think it's a bit silly myself. Infantryman have foul mouths, that's just how it is. Marking people off for saying "fuckin" or "shit" during an oporder pitch or while giving a class is a bit ridiculous. You can't expect us to suppress 2-3+ years of hearing/saying it nonstop in a matter of days/weeks. Just an observation

Response by MSG Nathan Ellison made Oct 29 at 2015 8:52 PM

2015-10-29T20:52:14-04:00

"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight it's way out of a piss-soaked paper bag."

-General George Patton

Response by CPT William Ainley made Oct 30 at 2015 1:18 AM

2015-10-30T01:18:22-04:00

Do you think being vulgar is a good way to get your point across? 240 years of culture, really? where are you getting this information from? Any person that wears Corporal stripes or above are "Non-Commissioned Officers" and that person is responsible for "Setting the example" How many of your subordinates really respect you for talking like a "Low Life"!

Response by SFC Rodrick Carter made Oct 30 at 2015 4:18 AM

2015-10-30T04:18:45-04:00

Well first off, using profanity is totally unprofessional. Even though profanity is used by the majority of people in uniform, it doesn't mean it needs to be used in NCOES or any other professional setting. The first line of the NCO Creed is "No one is more professional than I." That should sum it up for you right there.

Response by MAJ Brent Nielsen made Oct 30 at 2015 9:24 AM

2015-10-30T09:24:45-04:00

No profanity? My question is, WTF changed the course name? Warrior Leader Course? My nickel bet guess is some bastard Colonel needed a fcuking Legion of Merit to make general and everyone knows those LOM are awarded for unfcuking shit that wasn't fcuked up to begin with.

Response by 1SG Patrick McKelvey made Oct 30 at 2015 10:00 PM

2015-10-30T22:00:10-04:00

Good grief people! Are you seriously this wrapped up in verbiage that the term "Profession of Arms" means that my language can create such an intolerable environs that you are non mission capable? It's very strange to me as I prepare to retire that we are so enamored of the linguistics of professionalism that oft times we are forced to forego actual training in the profession of finding, fixing, closing with, engaging, and destroying an enemy (much less the intricacies of COIN which is or should have been our bread and butter for the last 10 years but alas that is another topic altogether) the ARMS part people. . Several millennia ago I was in a course where we had "senior Students" as peer instructors and one of them overheard me use the dreaded F-bomb. She proceeded to lambast me for the better part of 10 minutes on how unprofessional I was and how in her estimation I would be a danger as a soldier and a disaster as a leader because "Profanity is a weak mind expressing itself." That resonated with me because a) it was a rather pithy remark and b) my original statement was " who the f#@k taught you to set this claymore up so you can read it from your foxhole?!" My point here ladies and gentlemen is there is a place for everything and right now after 13 years of combat and an ongoing and apparently never ending battle with limited training dollars, soldiers who cannot come into compliance, leaders who are suffering paralysis thru analysis and an ever expanding administrative choke hold on our training hours it's my F#@KING language that is at issue here?

Response by COL John Hudson made Oct 31 at 2015 8:55 AM

2015-10-31T08:55:24-04:00

I can't agree with the statement of ..."240 years of culture" without asking the question "whose culture?" I enlisted in the Army on August 22, 1966, long before Gunnery Sergeant Hartman ever scorched movie screens across the nation. Called into the HQ office to update a record, I noted a board displayed above the Captain's door. Engraved on it were the words, "Profanity is the mark of an ignorant man." Unexpected, puzzling even; given where I was at the time. I've had an incredibly unique military experience in that I wore Enlisted rank, then Warrant Officer, and finally walked out the back door after 30 years as a full Colonel never, in all that time, ever forgetting those words.

Anyone choosing to take on a Leadership role in any capacity needs to have a clear understanding of exactly what the word "Leader" stands for. A Leader lives by standards set to demonstrate the finest aspects of the military, not the lowest. There is no place in any aspect of today's military (Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard) to substitute proper language for gutter filth profanity. As a matter of fact, Army Regulation is crystal clear on this issue, and anyone using such as a matter of course may find themselves on the wrong end of a harassment claim, subject to UCMJ oversight.

Commentary herein quotes Lt. General George S. Patton's motivational speeches during 1943~44 as a reference to justify use of gratuitous profanity. Note the following: "On each occasion, he would wear his polished helmet, full dress uniform, and gleaming riding boots, and carry a riding crop to snap for effect. Patton frequently kept his face in a scowl he referred to as his "war face." He would arrive in a Mercedes and deliver his remarks on a raised platform surrounded by a very large audience seated around the platform and on surrounding hills. Each address was delivered to a division-sized force of 15,000 or more men."

NOT to women, children, families, office environments, or anyone alive today in 2015! There was a WORLD WAR going on at the time, and the need for such is clearly understood. I have no problem with what's said out in the field...I support that. Just have a clear understanding of the difference between the "field" and "garrison" and conduct yourself accordingly whether you're in a leadership position or not.

Response by SSG Katherine Likely made Oct 31 at 2015 10:25 AM

2015-10-31T10:25:37-04:00

must be a new rule - never heard of it before - my mom use to sai I had a "potty mouth" when i came back from the field and would keep me from my kids for 2 weeks till I "cleaned my mouth" - lol - man did i enjoy those extra two weeks of peace and quiet.

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made Oct 31 at 2015 2:01 PM

2015-10-31T14:01:56-04:00

Probably something to do with "being professional". Personally, I don't think anything motivates soldiers in training better than "MOVE YOUR FUCKING ASS!!!!"

Response by CPL Richard Flagg made Oct 31 at 2015 5:08 PM

2015-10-31T17:08:59-04:00

When I went to PLDC now WLC in 90' at Fort Sill's NCO Academy; I remained professional and all that til that REMF fhrew the PRC-77 off his for being "Too Heavy." Then I just had to lay into his weak ass for potentially breaking our commo. The instructors laughed and chuckled at my On The Spot Correction.

It's too bad that times have changed since the PC Sensitivity Police have taken over. Come on our jobs are to kill the enemy not take him out for coffee at the local Starbucks or coffee shop.

Response by SGT Tim Fridley made Oct 31 at 2015 11:38 PM

2015-10-31T23:38:55-04:00

I have used some colorful language in my day but no need for it when instructing troops or giving briefings ect. That is counter productive

Response by CW3 Vernon Messer made Nov 1 at 2015 8:19 AM

2015-11-01T08:19:32-05:00

Sergeant, you identify a problem that started on the college campus where campus thought and speech police reign supreme. By forcing females into Infantry, Rangers, Special Forces in an effort to eventually get a female Combatant 4 star Commander and/or a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the cultures of these units and organization will be forced to change their modes of operation. This will be the cost of doing business. Also, there is a parallel progressive effort to generally neuter the male in our society. Look at TV commercials, magazine ads, et al. The US male is always the dummy, the weak kneed idiot, or the fall guy. Welcome to the world of political correctness...and it's coming from the top.

Response by SPC John F. Kendall Sr made Nov 1 at 2015 8:20 AM

2015-11-01T08:20:16-05:00

I have no clue- the use of Expletives, when used properly, elliminates the need of some lower enlisted, including myself(when I was a junior NCO) to argue semantics, when the Leader was in a very tight time-line (mission oriented). there's a time to question orders and a time to explain those orders after a situation has been resolved. Some new NCO's need an adjustment time to get used to the responsibility of the Leadership Rank, however once settled in they get comfortable and the lower Enlisted hears it in their voice and automatically responds to such. just trying to help.

Response by CPT Erik Eriksen made Nov 1 at 2015 7:14 PM

2015-11-01T19:14:15-05:00

You should be comfortable in any situation and any circumstance. You should be able to kibbitz with VIPs and not be nervous about swearing. You should also be able to fit in at a bar with people that swear. These concepts also work for clothing, behavior, table manners, vocabulary, etc. A true leader can be a leader in any circumstance, and word usage is a large part of that. Being flexible with your capabilities makes you a better leader, a better asset, and more personally and professionally mobile.

Actually, I used to swear a lot and overcoming that habit (and it is a habit) was one of the most difficult things I had to do when I moved into the civilian world. (Also, civilians often don't appreciate our sense of humor.)

Response by SGT Bryan O'Reilly made Nov 3 at 2015 6:22 AM

2015-11-03T06:22:11-05:00

I would echo what the rest of the guys say. Profanity is just excess verbiage and it can muddle your commands I want a block of instruction delivered as quickly and concisely as possible. especially during a fire mission because lives depend on it. It also makes me seem less in control if I am always cussing at my people. I am in the habit of confirming every instruction I give. I give a guy an instruction, ask if they understand and then have them repeat it back to me. This is a great tool for ensuring your people understand you the first time.
I never argue For the same reason. Control. NCO's who routinely argue with pvts have no business in command.
I also kept a bucket and a scrub brush on my desk, symbols of how you would spend your spare time scrubbing 5 ton trucks if you want to be a hardcase
Like it ior not part of our job is politics. That means we have a side that staff sees and a side our battles see. I want my command to know I am in control and not a hot head. Screaming at people unnecessarily is for illiterate weaklings IMO
I can dress someone down pretty quick without ever swearing, but there is a time when it is appropriate. And that's when it needs to carry power. Use your best judgement sarge, But I like to praise my people as much as possible, cause heaven help them when they do get me cussing
Your pal,

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 7:10 AM

2015-11-03T07:10:07-05:00

In all honesty as professionals we shouldn't be cursing any ways. I try to keep my sentence enhancers to myself. We all know their is a time and place to set your hat down and let it fly.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Nov 3 at 2015 7:10 AM

2015-11-03T07:10:23-05:00

When I went "Grass to Brass", the Commandant of OCS at the time allowed no profanity. It didn't seem to slow him down at all when it came to chewing butt. I've seen and been on the receiving end of a couple that were masterful but non profane. I admired him for it.

I didn't always follow his example in my career.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Nov 3 at 2015 8:27 AM

2015-11-03T08:27:17-05:00

"Profanity is a sign of a week mind trying to sound intelligent, but failing miserably in the process." -Gordon B. Hinkley. I work in the reinforcing steel industry, and iron workers could make a sailor cry with how much they drop the f-bomb. I have been working on my boss for a few years training him to not swear continually as we meet new clients. As VP of Operations I can get away with criticizing him. He is getting better, he is down to 8 f-bombs per conversation!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 9:12 AM

2015-11-03T09:12:23-05:00

Our civil society considers profanity in work settings offensive. Garrison, and by extension TRADOC, are going to often mirror many social norms found in civil society because we as an Army are not isolated when in garrison nor are we a distinct social caste with unique rights (not benefits, rights). When in the field with your own men with whom you have built up a rapport or deployed where you really are separated from civil society, norms adjust to the personalities of the people involved. A unit filled with a bunch of mountain boys from Appalachia will sound and act differently from one filled with a bunch of midwestern urbanites. TRADOC doesn't have the benefit of the rapport found in a cohesive unit nor the cultural familiarity of having folks with similar backgrounds. Thus, we use a civil norm for professional conduct we are all familiar with. In other words, it has more to do with sociology than "Army culture".

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Nov 3 at 2015 9:32 AM

2015-11-03T09:32:47-05:00

The use of profanity when giving orders, especially when time is critical and the situation is not one where you can use as many words as I am doing now can not be understated.

If one of my Infantry soldiers would have had a problem with me yelling "Move your ASS DAMMIT...!!!", I personally think the rest of the Platoon would have given him 'noogies' for weeks afterwards. To me, it was a Brevity Code that carried as much weight as the rest of the sentence I was screaming out.

For WLC (PLDC) to waste even a moment of their valuable time in attempting to change this very basic part of human nature is not only a travesty, but a complete waste of the allocated training time that could have been better used to reinforce values such as Honor, Self-Sacrifice, and Personal Standards being set so that junior enlisted can take heed and take heart.

My soldiers always came first, and they knew that
The lives and the welfare of my troops was of paramount importance, and followed in the tradition of "Mission FIRST, People ALWAYS". Which is a mis-nomer and actually if read and understood means you have ALREADY taken care of your soldiers before the Mission was ever assigned.

My only words for the Politically Correct (yet completed misguided) Leader that signed off on this monumental waste of time in the building block school of NCO culture?

STOP PISSING AWAY DAYLIGHT, and Move your ASS DAMMIT...!!!!

Response by CW3 Paul Dubuque made Nov 3 at 2015 9:44 AM

2015-11-03T09:44:40-05:00

Just a little reminder that not using profanity is not new. General Washington was certainly against it.

Response by CW3 Stephen D Vasey made Nov 3 at 2015 9:52 AM

2015-11-03T09:52:50-05:00

When I was a young soldier and up through the rank of E6, I could cuss with the best of them and sometimes embarrassed others. However , it dawn on me that that ability to swear was not a sign of intelligence, maturity, or leadership. I did not talk like that in front of my wife and family and especially not in front of my children. I decided if I did not need to talk to family like that then I did not need to talk to my fellow soldiers or those I was responsible for like that.
I found it interesting that another soldier even brought it to my attention that I had changed and that it was a positive change. Try it, see what life is like with out a four letter vocabulary.

Response by COL Dan Williams made Nov 3 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-11-03T09:54:20-05:00

And to what end is cursing going to lead? Is it a shortage in vocabulary that causes one to revert to cursing? It certainly is not something that leads to a better outcome. In most instances the intent is demeaning and derogatory. Not qualities that align with:
Loyalty
Duty
Respect
Selfless Service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage

At the WLC you are taking the next step in becoming a leader of men who may or may not want to do what you are telling them to do, but you must give them orders nonetheless. It is better if it comes from the mouth of a leader whom they respect than one whom they may fear but most likely will despise.

The choice is yours.

Response by SPC Richard Hansen made Nov 3 at 2015 10:20 AM

2015-11-03T10:20:06-05:00

If your shinning a seat with your ass, maybe swearing isn't for you and may hurt your feelings. If your in combat arms, you'd better suck it up buttercup! There is no room for "feelings" when your trying your best to exist and survive. If your soaked to the bone for 2 weeks, covered in mud, haven't had anything warm, and know the suck hasn't even started-swearing isn't an issue, making it is. I had a conversation with a shrink(casual, not ordered!), and asked this. WHY, do they want you to rape, pillage, and burn(not necessarily in that order)-but make sure you don't swear during the process, as to not offend? Quite the contradiction, and he had to agree. He said it makes no sense. Grunts-we aren't there to make friends and influence enemies. We're there to FUCK SHIT UP!!! Let us do our jobs, and stop being such pussies about it. THAT, is the problem.

Response by SFC Tim Drye made Nov 3 at 2015 11:04 AM

2015-11-03T11:04:21-05:00

I can't speak for other MOSs but combat arms when I was in profanity was close to a requirement. If you didn't use profanity you were kind of looked at differently

Response by SSG Mannix Brooks made Nov 3 at 2015 12:16 PM

2015-11-03T12:16:27-05:00

The purpose is to reflect changes made in the military structure with women being allowed in combat jobs, people being allowed to serve openly regardless of gender preference and with the kids
being recruited today as in if there is no direct rule against doing something they will exploit is to the maximum. I was a tanker before I moved over to Signal when I was in the military so I had to make a change to the frequency of use, times, volume and places where I used profanity or I would not have made it, same thing applies to the current situation for everyone else now.

Response by SFC Patricia Zechel made Nov 3 at 2015 12:41 PM

2015-11-03T12:41:27-05:00

Maybe its time for the cadre and the policy makers in NCOES schools to start suppressing a 240 years of culture. From a Biblical standpoint, when a person is cursing, it causes bitterness and not for the goodness (grace) of the person who is cursing; and specially, it causes bitterness to the person who is listening to it. Also I would like to post this scripture about Taming the Tongue. It comes from the book of James 3:1-12 KJV:
3 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
So if anyone one who thinks profanity is a cool thing and thinks it builds people esteem up, well..think again.

Response by 1SG Adais Garcia made Nov 3 at 2015 1:50 PM

2015-11-03T13:50:23-05:00

There is a Time and place for it and that WLC or any NCOES School is not the Place for it. Be professional and do the right Thing. It is a NEW Generation adapt

Response by SFC Ronald Burris made Nov 3 at 2015 3:06 PM

2015-11-03T15:06:44-05:00

I think it has to do with being respectful. Just because I served for 20 years didn't mean I appreciated people using profanity in front of me. And I don't know how many times I was asked to forgive someone's French when speaking profanity. When it comes to respecting people there is nothing better than getting rid of old cultures that have a negative impact. Being a Soldier in the United States Army is also about being professional and adapting to changes. Using profanity as an excuse to show someone's manhood or to act like they are superior when talking to a Subordinate is demeaning and inappropriate.

Response by SSG Chris Garabitos made Nov 3 at 2015 6:50 PM

2015-11-03T18:50:23-05:00

Change 1: WLC is now BLC (Basic Leader Course) Change 2-1000: The toxic culture of swearing gets out of hand really quick and effects other programs the Army is investing into to change. i.e. Counseling, SHARP, EO, and yeah.. can't forget Leadership in keeping with the NCO 2020 vision.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 8:01 PM

2015-11-03T20:01:30-05:00

#1 you are in a professional environment
#2 as well as in a professional business "ARMY"
#3 if one cannot control his/her self for a short period in an environment where one is to present themselves professionally (i.e. Academy). How can one be expected and/or trusted to go out and lead, mentor, and train young Soldiers professionally.

What gets me is that so quickly Soldiers (NCO's) forget they are PROFESSIONALS...

Response by SPC William Weedman made Nov 3 at 2015 8:46 PM

2015-11-03T20:46:54-05:00

I always figured it was attention to detail, not unlike which way one's boots were laced, as I understand it swapped each day (left lace over right lace and vice versa). It is also easier to understand an instructor if you don't have to wade through language that is unneeded for instruction. When I was in the NG during a local snow emergency, the only soldier who was able to access our armory during the first hours was our full-time motor sergeant. A friend and I were about to fall out of our chairs watching him attempt to address the reporters without his "normal" foul language spilling out. He was eventually saved by another soldier who was able to allow him to first do his job and do it with his usual colorful language.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 10:56 PM

2015-11-03T22:56:30-05:00

As everyone else said to show professionalism. Consider this, you're in a school environment and you have to lead, give classes, do briefs and cussing will take out the credibility of it and makes you look un-intelligent. Does not mean you are, it just better to be taken serious and as a professional.

Response by SGT James Bretney made Nov 4 at 2015 2:07 AM

2015-11-04T02:07:08-05:00

The no profanity rule kills the warrior spirit. Why not just color the uniforms pink?

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Nov 4 at 2015 6:23 AM

2015-11-04T06:23:35-05:00

Well the point is that being an NCO or Officer is a big responsibility so it's a way to remind you that you are a professional. I think it's acceptable around your friends but not around others and specially not around minors or civilians.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 6:26 AM

2015-11-04T06:26:43-05:00

240 years of culture y you say? Consider this:
Washington's Order Against Profanity

The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing, a vice hitherto little known in our American Army is growing into fashion. He hopes that the officers will, by example as well as influence, endeavor to check it and that both they and the men will reflect that we can little hope of the blessing of Heaven on our army if we insult it by our impiety and folly. Added to this it is a vice so mean and low without any temptation that every man of sense and character detests and despises it.

(Signed,) George Washington

Response by SFC David Davenport made Nov 4 at 2015 8:21 AM

2015-11-04T08:21:46-05:00

As a professional Soldier you need to be capable of communicating in a professional manner. Profanity is a useful tool when used properly but rarely should it be used unconsciously. I rarely used profanity but when I did normally received the complete attention and focus of the Soldiers I addressed. Why wouldn't you be forced to communicate in a professional manner at the first level of NCOES?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 9:05 AM

2015-11-04T09:05:52-05:00

It isn't that. It is trying to convey a professional working environment. I get that. Very few civilian jobs would tolerate the F bomb every third word. I do hear swearing in a corporate environment with a major oil company almost every day. However it isn't quite like it is in the Army.

However, I think the no swearing thing can be taken to an extreme. I got yelled at WLC about mile 4 of our 5 mile run. One of the cadre asked "Are you motivated?" and I was the only one who sounded off....but it was with "F YEAH!" So after I was admonished my motivation was probably in the crapper for the final mile.

If you cannot communicate effectively without it out.....I would brush up on how to communicate and be a leader. Then add it back in.

Response by SSG Gerald King made Nov 4 at 2015 10:01 AM

2015-11-04T10:01:02-05:00

Profanity is NEVER needed to get your point across! I rarely ever swear and when I do, it is usually when I am alone and I am cussing out this dang computer!

Response by CW3 Jim Norris made Nov 4 at 2015 10:09 AM

2015-11-04T10:09:17-05:00

To paraphrase a noted author, 'profanity is a vain attempt by a weak mind to express itself forcefully'. The unfortunate truth is that profanity no longer has any impact on the response of others because it is so common place and used for no reason. In former days the utterance of profanity by a leader was reserved for an appropriate place, time and circumstance - and they very seldom occurred, so the led understood clearly the urgency that was being expressed. Today the rampant use of profane language has not only weakened the leadership position of the one using it, it has dulled the senses of those to whom it is directed. Make no mistake, I have used profane language in combat situations, often under my breath as a release mechanism for my own foreboding. However I found the greatest impact upon my platoon was to see me in apparent calm instructing and guiding their actions. You will find that cool waters temper steel, and that includes the backbones of others. Calm yourself, express the needed orders, in clear, concise and unambiguous voice and you will become that leader that your soldiers will respect and look to in times of greatest stress. A great example is the found in the movie We where solider once and young, recounting the Battle of Ia Drangin Vietnam. According to the actual commander on the ground there, the movie accurately portrays the Sergeant Major's demeanor during combat. I recommend strongly that you watch this man's portrayal and it's effect upon those about him.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 11:59 AM

2015-11-04T11:59:29-05:00

It's toi easy. What is the first line in the NCO Creed?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2015 6:33 AM

2015-11-05T06:33:53-05:00

There is no need for it. I don't cuss around my kids so there is no need to cuss around people. In combat or not.

Response by CPL Glenn Cariaga made Nov 5 at 2015 1:26 PM

2015-11-05T13:26:02-05:00

I think it shows discipline. The ability to turn cussing on or off is an outward sign of the inward ability for any soldier to turn a habit into a conscious decision. We talk all time about "channeling our emotions." As professionals, one cannot be making life/death decisions based purely on emotions. If one cannot control one's speech in a controlled, how much more difficult would it be to keep it together in more stressful situations?

Response by 1SG Robert Bodeman made Nov 9 at 2015 12:01 AM

2015-11-09T00:01:17-05:00

ok enough with bashing NCO schools !!! FIRST // the NO CURSING rule in ANY military schools has been established back when they first started the NCO ACADEMY. The MAIN reason is PROFESSIONALLISM, RESPECT, HONOR, and CHARACTER - - if TRNG SENIOR SGTs were CURSING at you for everything, you would feel disrespected and in some cases soldiers would fail, or have no reason to continue, BUT to keep up HONOR is to treat, speak without cursing would build your character in a RESPECTFUL way. SECOND // when you are in charge of a group of soldiers, it would be nice to hear SGT's speak with out cursing to get his point across, thats the challenge, your SQUAD or PLATOON RESPECTING you because you do not curse at them, you speak with HONOR, you show them you've been educated by the BEST, you follow the NCO CREED, you want your men and women to follow you, you want them to RESPECT you, you want them to SPEAK highly of you, not belittle you behind your back, then other NCOs hear it and now your screwed, can not fix it, except transfer and start over, THIRD // as CSM AYALA taught me, EDUCATION is the key to success, how you use it will make you or break you, PROFANITY has no room in my brain, but RESPECT, HONOR, DUTY, as an NCO growing to be the ARMY's finest, you have a DUTY to your men and women to treat them fairly with respect FOURTH // YOUR MEN AND WOMEN IS THE EXTENSION OF YOU, HOW THEY BEHAVE, TALK, AND ACT IS HOW YOU TREAT THEM

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Nov 9 at 2015 9:41 AM

2015-11-09T09:41:40-05:00

They are teaching you that you can be a successful leader without having to use profanity to get your message across. Great leaders can get their point across without cussing. I for one did and do cuss quite a lot.
Another reason for the no cussing is teaching discipline. Yes, they know everyone does use profanity in their everyday life. But, they are getting you to focus on getting you ideas across without profanity and it makes one really think about what they are saying.

Response by SGT William Howell made Nov 13 at 2015 9:09 AM

2015-11-13T09:09:13-05:00

When I went to WLC my instructors had a zero swearing policy long before this policy came into play. Their belief was that swearing was not professional and this was a professional's course. They make the rules, I just had to play by them. It was tough because I love the F bomb more than life itself.

I believe it is a correct way of teaching WLC. How can it be professional development if they allow things that are not professional?

Response by SSG Paul Ellis made Nov 15 at 2015 7:00 PM

2015-11-15T19:00:08-05:00

It's the new PC Army (which admittedly had it's start back in the late '90s.) Just because you don't cuss doesn't make you more "professional." It makes you more socially acceptable. In part, it's good manners. (You don't cuss up a storm while you're having lunch in a public place where there are wives and young children.) But I've known many "professional" NCOs who were a waste of space. They knew how to behave but not how to get anything done or manage their soldiers. When I was a young soldier, I had NCOs who called me everything except a child of God. And they were some of the best NCOs I ever had. They knew their jobs. They trained me. They gave me the appropriate attitude check when I messed up or got stupid.

When I was in, I didn't cuss all the time. There's a time and place. But not cussing at all (to extend to "My Girl" cadences is just one more step to turning soldiers into Boy Scouts with guns. Next thing you know, in addition to already giving recruits the option of rappelling in Basic Training pugil stick and bayonet training will be optional.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2015 6:20 PM

2015-11-17T18:20:23-05:00

It has never been accepted as a valid form of communication but when at Eaustis I was asked by cadre to get female latrines in order. I bagged them up elbows deep gave a class on hygiene and got reported because i offended them when I made everyone clean unless I got s volunteer or I could drop trouser and see who made the mess. So group effort it was.

Response by CW2 Michael Mullikin made Feb 3 at 2016 8:13 PM

2016-02-03T20:13:13-05:00

I don't believe 240 years is accurate; 4000 is more like it. Don't forget the quote attributed to a Spartan corporal before the walls of Troy: "F____ This Shit!"

Response by CW2 Michael Mullikin made Feb 18 at 2016 1:27 PM

2016-02-18T13:27:11-05:00

Reminds me of the time I was a tank commander and a chaplain came around to explain, using most of the arguments seen here. I advised that there are times, as when a main gun shell casing splits, sends a yellow fireball back into the turret, and turns all the exposed hair on everyone's bodies into fine grey ash—well, at times like those an "Oh, darn" or "Oh, drat" just doesn't seem very satisfying. I'm pleased to report that after consideration the chaplain agreed with me. When on of our young warriors is at the range and, forgetting where his muzzle is pointing, rips a three-round burst along the firing line what do you say? "Oh jinkies, Bob, PLEASE try to be more careful!!

The 1SG in the next post makes the point that it is a NEW generation and we must adapt. Some of us are old enough to remember the 60's and 70's when it really was a new generation which we persuaded to adapt to the military.

When you find that your trans-gendered driver has been kidnapped by the enemy and raped to death it will be important to carefully consider your remarks because we all know that hatred of the enemy is unprofessional.

Response by MSG Chuck Pewsey made Feb 18 at 2016 2:05 PM

2016-02-18T14:05:02-05:00

1. if you cuss all the time, what are you going to do when you need to be emphatic? 2. In case of emergency (here they come!), profanity is just noise that gets in the way of the message.

Response by CW2 Michael Mullikin made Feb 27 at 2016 5:25 PM

2016-02-27T17:25:42-05:00

Consider what our Army is doing to us:
• No swearing or other harsh language.
• No smoking, chewing or inhaling.
• Minimal drinking, most clubs have been closed.
• No fraternizing with the opposite sex, at least without a pre-contact agreement approved by and filed with JAG.
• Fraternizing with the same sex? No definitive guidance yet, but probably approved.
• No support for human trafficing. You have to get to the second to last paragraph of the policy letter to find out that patronizing prostitutes is not compatible with service in the US Army.
• Wearing of tattoos must be strictly regulated.
I couold go on, but I think you get the idea. Our leadership and its politically correct advisors are trying to transform the army into either Oliver Cromwell's New Model Puritan Army, the knights Templar or Hospitaller, the Theban Sacred Band.

One last question: what does any of this have to do with our army's ability to close with and destroy the enemy utilizing firepower, maneuver and shock effect?

Response by SP6 Cajun Ray made Apr 18 at 2016 6:39 PM

2016-04-18T18:39:01-04:00

Some people here don't seem to understand that it's about maintaining your military bearing, as well as, showing respect to, and for, others.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2016 8:10 PM

2016-04-18T20:10:45-04:00

The reality is that profanity for the most part is a filler, similar to how people use "like", and "um", but it can also be used as an adjective in many situations. It shouldn't be considered taboo, depending on who you are talking to, but one thing leaders should work on is taking a step back and consider "what word can I use in lieu of f**king, or sh**ty to describe this?" And practice speaking on your own, in front of the mirror or wherever you feel comfortable- especially before a brief- so you can reduce any filler words (including like, um, f***ing, etc). It shouldn't be a matter of not being allowed to use profanity, it should be a matter of not needing to use it all the time. If you work at it, you will come off as more professional without really changing your style, just the words; it also means that when you do use profanity, your subordinates know that issue is significant- in other words, not using it gives it a more powerful connotation.

Response by LTC Dallas Powell made Apr 18 at 2016 8:38 PM

2016-04-18T20:38:54-04:00

When I attended PLDC in 1994, we were not allowed to swear either. This is nothing new.

A couple of years before that, my very first PSG used to say, "Swearing is a crutch for the conversationally impaired." I've always known that a strategically timed four-letter word can be effective. Use those words sparingly, and your troops will respect you.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2016 8:40 PM

2016-04-18T20:40:56-04:00

It's a professionalism thing. Sure, no one cares when you're with your buddies, but when you're working with the public, citizens of other countries, or anyone outside of the culture, it matters. We are one of, if not THE, most professional militaries in the world. Watching our language in front of others is part of it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2016 10:16 PM

2016-04-18T22:16:00-04:00

Personally, I find the use of profanity to be unnecessary and completely unprofessional in any situation. I do not use it, and I prefer that others not use it around me, whether senior, subordinate, or peer. It conveys a hostile and abusive environment.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2016 11:05 PM

2016-04-18T23:05:59-04:00

I don't thank using profanity is a necessity.
If there's a rule you can't use it in school then there is a rule. Do I thank it is a nisessity? No Do I feel inforcing it is a waist of time? Yes We are Profesionals but we are also not the girl scouts or politicians. I know if I and many nco's over me are not going to care when an event happens were life's are on the line.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2016 10:58 AM

2016-04-19T10:58:52-04:00

Profanity doesn't matter to point. In my opinion the only time it shouldn't be used is in public/garrison or talking to a higher ranking due to respect that should be shown, other than that who f***in cares. Also just cause one uses profanity it does not define their intelligence.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2016 11:09 AM

2016-04-19T11:09:57-04:00

As a US Army Soldier I agreed to follow the rules and regulations. It is against UCMJ to use any indecent language, under ARTICLE 134. "Indecent" language is that which is grossly offensive to modesty, decency, or propriety, or shocks the moral sense, because of its vulgar, filthy, or disgusting nature, or its tendency to incite lustful thought. Language is indecent if it tends reasonably to corrupt morals or incite libidinous thoughts. The language must violate community standards. See paragraph 87 if the communication was made in the physical presence of a child.". I agreed to following these orders. There is no stipulation in my contract that I can follow only the rules that I agree with. Do I agree with the rule. I actually do. If you are not discipline to control what comes out of your mouth, than how can I trust you will be discipline enough with a finger on the trigger.

Response by CW3 Kim B. made Apr 19 at 2016 9:44 PM

2016-04-19T21:44:58-04:00

I always thought they were acronyms

Response by SGT Mark Grier made May 4 at 2017 8:17 AM

2017-05-04T08:17:38-04:00

The purpose is to further pussificate the US Army

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made May 4 at 2017 1:36 PM

2017-05-04T13:36:17-04:00

WHO the FUCK knows?
SCARED I guess,THERE is a time for profanity amongst ones peers.
When attacking and the occasional individual ,requires a pep talk. WHO here remembers the scene in "Pacific Rim" ,where the female pilot drops out into an emotional funk.ALL of that could have been CUT through with the appropriate racial epithet and a condescending description of her sexuality and lack of intelligence.
odds are little Mariko has never been spoken to that way,by shocking her back to reality.
The ONLY thing quicker is a slap...which tends to aggravate commanders for some GIRLY reason.
THAT my friends is a CONCISE and logical reason. I WOULD avoid it in Church or around LADIES in the O-club but AT LEAST don't expect KNUCKLE draggers to kid ourselves.

Response by CW2 Michael Mullikin made May 4 at 2017 3:16 PM

2017-05-04T15:16:45-04:00

Hmmm, make that 2,400 years of culture. Remember the Athenian corporal who had been assaulting the walls of Troy for ten years,"How do I get out of this chicken shit outfit?"

Response by SFC Michael Moberly made Aug 19 at 2022 10:36 PM

2022-08-19T22:36:37-04:00

If all you've got is a bunch of F words strung together, you will never get respect or integrity from your soldiers. Your skills and care for your soldiers will qualify your speech and leadership skills. If want to sound strong, never say "was LIKE oh I better not cuss." We don't need that culture change either.