What is your advice for any current or former service member who is planning to start college?

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 21:38:42 -0400

I started college in 2017, and prior to the experience, I had little more to go off of than the usual banal advice. But four years later--a BA, an MA, and halfway through an AAS--I have myriad tidbits I share with those who approach me with questions about starting college.

Don't be afraid to argue with professors.
It is entirely possible you know more about certain things than the faulty. Don't be afraid to demonstrate that.
Mentor the younger students: you can have a real effect on making them better, and you'll grow as a student and leader, too.

The list goes on, but I'd like to see what others have to add to this list.

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Jul 20 at 2021 9:50 PM

LTC Eugene Chu — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 21:50:59 -0400

Don’t go to a for-profit school. Several shut down due to fraudulent practices and dubious recruiting. They often cost more and provide less for veteran students

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/why-these-veterans-regret-their-for-profit-college-degrees-and-debt

Why these veterans regret their for-profit college degrees -- and debt

A new documentary illuminates how veterans have been particularly vulnerable to abuses by the for-profit college industry.

Response by SSG Samuel Kermon made Jul 20 at 2021 10:06 PM

SSG Samuel Kermon — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 22:06:44 -0400

Don't give up on yourself.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Jul 20 at 2021 11:29 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 23:29:32 -0400

You reside in KS or is this all online?

Response by PO3 Monica Zink Davenport made Jul 21 at 2021 1:24 AM

PO3 Monica Zink Davenport — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 01:24:48 -0400

Ask for military experience/training to be evaluated by each college as some utilize different evaluations to determine how it’ll fit with their programs. Don’t hesitate to challenge exams/classes to gain credit without having to take the entire class.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 21 at 2021 4:45 AM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 04:45:08 -0400

College professors are no different than most. They do no more work than they must. Chances are, that quizzes and final exams will be EXACTLY the same questions as those in the text books.

If the course text has the questions at the end of each chapter.
_Read the questions before you read the chapter. It cues up your mind.
_Write each question on a 3x5 card.
_As you find the answer to the question, write it on the back of the 3x5 card.
_If you own the text, write the number of the question in the margins of the text.
_Highlight the answer to the question.
_Before any quiz or exam, read the question and the answer you highlighted.

If their are those little blocks of text (amplifying information) that are "stand alone:"
_Read them BEFORE you read the main body of the assignment.
_Don't break your chain of thought and read them while you read the main body.
_Read them AGAIN, after you finish the main body.

If you find a word you do not understand in your text, don't gloss over it.
_Stop. See if the word is in a glossary in the back of the book. Hand write the definition on a 3x5 card.
_Then also look it up in a dictionary. If the definition isn't almost identical, write down that definition too.

If you feel like you are going to have to pull an all-nighter, or you are just flat out tired when it is time to study:
_enjoy a light meal, (Salad, Fresh Fruit, small portion of protein and a small portion of carbs.)
_Let the meal digest for about 30 minutes.
_Take a brisk walk for about 20 minutes.
_Take a 45 minute power nap
Then, start your all-niter.

Study groups,
_If their is someone who is a constant distractor from the study, give them the boot.
_If you can't give them the boot, give yourself the boot.

If you want to work in a particular field, find someone at least one, but the more the better) who has at least 10 years in that field, NOT AN ACADEMIC. Preferably someone who OWNS the company.
_Ask them if they would be willing to do some light mentoring.
_Ask them what you should be taking as the electives within the field.
_Follow their advice.
If you are any good, the offers to apprentice or intern will follow.

Talented, smart, well-educated and socially amenable people make good employees and live good lives. Talented, smart, well-educated and socially amenable people who build their own businesses live great lives. Always think about how you will become your own boss.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Jul 21 at 2021 8:35 AM

CSM William Everroad — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 08:35:42 -0400

My advice is compare university's veteran support programs. Some are top notch (Syracuse) and some are non-existent.
Just another metric to use when deciding if college and which one is right for you.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 11:16 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 11:16:56 -0400

** Do you want to expand your knowledge or do you want a degree to launch a career?

-- if looking for a career --
** In your selected field of study have you interviewed others in the same field who are 1/2 way through to retirement as well as those that are 5 years or less away from retirement?

Do not get a degree because "everyone else is doing it". Do not select a field just because you love the sound of it. Research, research, research your chosen path.

Response by SPC David Batterson made Jul 21 at 2021 12:01 PM

SPC David Batterson — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:01:50 -0400

Regardless of major, I would include some business and law courses. You just may need that knowledge in the future.

Response by PO2 Joseph Chantiny made Jul 21 at 2021 12:52 PM

PO2 Joseph Chantiny — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:52:48 -0400

I absolutely agree about arguing with professors...and usually you'll gain a mentor and friend after you do.
Anyhow, the biggest problem people have about going to school is understanding how to apply and at least having the right amount of money in the bank to get started.
I always amazed about how many people didn't understand these fundamental facts.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jul 21 at 2021 12:59 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:59:40 -0400

"It is entirely possible you know more about certain things than the faulty. Don't be afraid to demonstrate that."

Agreed SGT Joseph Gunderson, but with one big, BIG word of warning from personal experience: Know your audience! Understand whether your professors actually value your experience; and understand whether they can take even the slightest or most benign forms of addition to their knowledge-base or, especially, correction!

I once made the mistake of drawing on several years of fairly unique, personal experience in a particular situation/environment as the basis for correcting a Never-Experienced-It-Myself-But-Know-It-All-Professor in class. I wasn't mad at the guy nor was I unprofessional about explaining why, because of my years of experience in the topic at hand, I believed he was generally incorrect; nonetheless, it didn't work out too well. In fact, the push-back I got was rather disproportionate to my contribution that day.

Wasn't just bad enough I painted a target on my back for this prof, but students, by nature, are sponges for knowledge, and it's human to defer to those are experts or don the trappings of being an expert. And I found many of the students took his authoritative role as a professor as being inherently superior in knowledge, regardless of the fact he was merely parroting whatever he was told was true. Nonetheless, the attitudes from many of them towards me were, shall we say, less than supportive of me or my experience, because they took their cues from the professor who fully discounted my experience in front of the class.

This probably occurred about class 4 or 5, so I really didn't have a sense of what this person's reactions to being challenged were. And it can be argued I wasn't obligated to add my 2 cents, which is fair, but I also didn't set about to be "that guy" who likes to fight with the profs and shove my views down others' throats. I just had something to contribute based on what I lived through.

I'm not telling anyone to self-censor, so if you have something you feel you should contribute, especially if it contradicts prevailing thought, know your audience. Know their tolerances. Figure out HOW to effectively contribute what you have. And accept that you may end up making life harder on yourself if your knowledge and experiences is not valued.

Lastly, you'll note I did not use terms like "feeling" or "opinions"; I am referring to things a bit more substantive than that; namely, what you can offer in terms of empirically demonstrated knowledge and/or experience. Not everyone has experience or knowledge, but everyone has an opinion.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 1:31 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 13:31:50 -0400

Don't take on debt, and finish what you start. Know how you are going to finish what you start, and lay out all the classes you need to finish, and to include all classes that will suffice various general requirements. You never know what and what will be available.

How hard can it be to lay out all the classes you need from start to finish (even if you plan to transfer from a Jr College to a full University)? It's certainly not harder than life.

Academic wise, I didn't "clue in" to the "game" until Graduate school. Honestly, no one cares about your presentation. Your professor only cares in as much as she has to pay attention enough to grade it. Everyone else in the audience is worrying about their own crap. They don't care about you either, unless you botch it so badly you entertain them.

Academics have a benchmark, follow the benchmark of the grading metrics. Don't get too wrapped up into your theory or project. The objective is the grade, the grade checks the box to pass the class, the class checks the box on the degree requirements. Ergo......... graduation.

Response by SSG Jim Hasse made Jul 21 at 2021 2:28 PM

SSG Jim Hasse — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 14:28:22 -0400

Make your education your number one priority. Put the partying aside for a while. You will of course acquire new knowledge, but most important is being able to demonstrate that you were able to accomplish completing your goals. Having to register for classes, deal with challenges, and make getting the education first and foremost, that is "getting your ticket punched" is most important. You don't need A's and B's what is most important is getting the degree. Chose a school you can afford. It doesn't have to be Harvard or Yale. If you put in two years at a community college and then two years at a state college it will be a degree that you get and that is the goal. As Churchill said, "Never give up. Never, never give up.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 2:45 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 14:45:50 -0400

Don’t overload yourself with courses, especially those first few semesters when you’re just getting settled into a routine. Be realistic, and consider taking a minimum full-time load. I know it’s s tempting to try to knock it all out ASAP (and there are certainly those who can do that), but if you have to take a summer or two to bang out some classes, it’s not the end of the world. That final GPA will look alot better if you make sure to have enough time to devote to each class.

Response by SPC Barry Black made Jul 21 at 2021 3:09 PM

SPC Barry Black — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 15:09:25 -0400

When I mustered out it was at the height of the Viet Nam war. Protests ect. I made the mistake of wearing my field jacket to my Sochs.class. I was called a baby killer by the Prof. ,no less. Today it is a different world. I just think that separating 2 worlds might be better.

Response by SFC Howard Holmes made Jul 21 at 2021 4:16 PM

SFC Howard Holmes — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 16:16:28 -0400

After 36 years of total service, 15 guard and reserve, 21 active, I began searching for what I really wanted to do upon retirement. Approximately seven months I started visiting the local university. At first I was going to get my teaching certificate, so I sat down with the school counselor and discussed options. We threw ideas around, and she was real good , because she helped me explore options. My BA is in business, but I was too old to go for my MBA. I felt an MBA is for individuals younger than I who had time to work on becoming a CEO, company president, etc. It also was not my passion. Longer story short, I ended up going for my MA in Human Developmental Counseling and became a licensed counselor. This was something I never anticipated or even gave thought to. When this was discussed with the counselor, and after speaking with one of the department heads it became a passion. So I advise prior service going to back to school, have passion for what you seek, keeping in mind the end of that path and keep mission focused. Otherwise, you may get frustrated and bored. I'm more of a conservative person and the counseling program is very liberal. When put in certain positions, it is important, at times, to play the game at let it roll off your back. At other times, stand up for what you believe. In these situations, make your comments pithy - short, sweet, to the point, while trying to not be confrontational. Most of my professors held and taught many beliefs completely opposite of mine. By being tactful, having a little bend, but do not fold, you can create an exchange of ideas without compromising your beliefs. Understand when it's time to agree to disagree and DO NOT take things personally. EVERYONE is entitled to their own beliefs and it is not up to us to change their beliefs. In fact, the reason we served was to protect and defend their rights to their own opinions. So respect this, and remember, you're going back to school to achieve the objective that meets and suits your passion, and will help you get in to position where you can influence others.

Response by Patricia Overmeyer made Jul 21 at 2021 4:52 PM

Patricia Overmeyer — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 16:52:06 -0400

What is your passion? What makes you really happy when you do something, whether it's at work or play? Sit down and make a list of at least five things of which you are really passionate (i.e. helping people, doing difficult mathematical equations, arguing/debating, digging in the dirt to find rocks, redesigning kitchens, whatever it is you enjoy). Review that list carefully and try to find a pattern. Then go to the career counselor's office with that list and discuss at length what drives those passions and how you can find a career that fits into those passions. You would be surprised to find that your passions usually do have a career field but you weren't aware of it.
All too often I see people in my office who never followed their passions but simply went to a college to get a degree so they could get a job to feed the family, etc. They never really looked at how their passions could have led to a much different career that would have still allowed them to have a decent job. Don't sell your passions short just to have a job.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 5:07 PM

SP5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 17:07:24 -0400

SGT Joseph Gunderson Move from "thinking about it" to starting the process.

Response by 1SG Bill Farmerie made Jul 21 at 2021 5:37 PM

1SG Bill Farmerie — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 17:37:59 -0400

If you are a current service member, and know what college or university you plan to attend after getting out of the military, check with that college to see if they will take the the credits from classes while you are in the military. See if they will count toward your planned major or if they will just be electives. Remember college is a big business and want your money if they are going to put their name on your degree.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Jul 21 at 2021 6:34 PM

SPC Kevin Ford — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 18:34:38 -0400

One thing I heard from the faculty on the first day of my master's program is don't be afraid to ask questions. Those that ask questions and offer opinions tend to be the most respected students in the class, not only by their instructors but by their peers.

Also, go to a school with a regional accreditation. The for-profit schools LTC Eugene Chu mentioned tend to have national accreditations. While "national" may sound better than "regional", it is not. Go to schools with regional accreditations, not just for the quality of education but if you need to change schools your credits will mostly be able to transfer with a regionally accredited school. Also, for those of you getting started out, degrees from nationally accredited schools will not carry the same weight as degrees from regionally accredited schools.

Response by A1C Gregory McCain made Jul 21 at 2021 7:49 PM

A1C Gregory McCain — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 19:49:27 -0400

The first thing I did was to decide what I wanted to get out of college. I was disabled so I wanted a desk job. Then I looked at what jobs were looking for people. Then I looked at what the job would entail once I started working in the field. To research I talked to some vet organizations. They're established to help vets so use them. I also talked to some professional organizations about careers in their professions. I also talked to some guidance consolers both at the college level and at my local high school. I was polite and made sure to thank people for their time. One thing I found out that these people were surprised that somebody ask them for their advice and in turn usually went the extra mile to help me. That was in 1974, just after Vietnam, so things may be different now. However, I get thank you for your service now, which I didn't back then. You're doing the right thing by asking for help. Good planning usually leads to better results. Good luck!

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Jul 21 at 2021 8:26 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:26:42 -0400

Don't be afraid to argue with professors, but do it with scholarly discipline. Show them that you have learned something...maybe even from them. Identify your sources. Be knowledgeable. Argue with good logic. Acknowledge good points when you hear them.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2021 8:24 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Jul 2021 08:24:36 -0400

Honestly, online college (especially a Bachelor's online) is just as valuable and far more easily attainable than going to school full time. Many servicemembers, current and retired, simply don't have time to go to a physical schoolhouse every day and it is understandable -- we've all got jobs to do. The younger guys don't seem to understand this fully, an online college degree from a fully-accredited institution is not seen as any different by employers (especially since there is usually no way to know).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2021 3:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Jul 2021 15:51:55 -0400

Work hard. Be humble. Do this and you will be OK. MHO

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jul 23 at 2021 9:43 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 09:43:33 -0400

Make a visit to the college, talk to their people gather information, make sure they have full state and Regional accreditation. Once You've started don't even take a semester off continue until You have Your degree. Support for Veteran's and of course quality of the faculty, staff and their qualifications and outlook. Spending a lot doesn't make a better school, look at the course of study, job placement of graduates. Also when discussions in class do entail two way communication and mutual respect. My experience was very good with professors that not only had the education but actual background in the career field. There was also an appreciation for Veterans as being older and more experienced and they were encouraged and used as a resource to help younger students proceed and the respect and appreciation was expressed.