What is your opinion about correcting deficiencies?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 12:19:40 -0400

You’re an NCO and expected to act as such. Since when did it become acceptable to only be an NCO of the unit that you’re in?

You’re walking around on base minding your own business and see a soldier doing something wrong. You walk up to make the corrections and they have the audacity to say, “you’re not my NCO. Don’t tell me what to do.” I’ve even seen the NCO as the problem and make the comments, “leave my soldiers alone”

The discipline and respect in the Army is disturbing!!! Hands in pockets, walking with phones out, no headgear... the list can go on and on.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Aug 21 at 2019 12:57 PM

SSG Brian G. — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 12:57:52 -0400

Ok, straight off. No. When a person says that they are not in your COC etc... whether junior enlisted, NCO or Officer they are ate the fuck up.

When a service member is in need of correction they need to be and should be corrected by any person of any rank of any branch. There are of course proper ways to do this but the above is just wrong and it seems more than a few need to have their heads taken off and screwed on right.

I mean I have corrected and been corrected by members of various branches and ranks. My blouser had ridden up and a Marine private called me on it. A Sergeant Major was without his cover and I politely point it out "Great day for a haircut Sergeant Major." And he simply smiled and went to retrieve his cover.

Corrections are not and should be restricted to unit and in fact have nothing to do with them.

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made Aug 21 at 2019 1:59 PM

1SG Nick Baker — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 13:59:14 -0400

Sounds like what happens after other prolonged wars.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Aug 21 at 2019 2:29 PM

CSM William Everroad — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:29:28 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, SSG Brian G. basically spells it out. Its general military authority, as mentioned by SPC Joshua Blotzer and the responsibility of the NCO to make the correction.
These situations arise when that Soldier's leadership fails them. We did not do a good enough job emphasizing customs and courtesies, let alone respect and discipline.
When faced with conflict or correction, many Soldiers get defensive and try to find an 'out'. They knew they were wrong, but did not want to accept that someone else could call them on it that wasn't in their CoC. That is another reason I hate it when Soldier's say 'respect is earned'. It gives them an excuse not to respect NCOs they feel didn't earn their respect, which most NCOs that fall out of their CoC would not have had the opportunity to do. The rank was earned regardless.
The true test of an NCO is this situation right here. The easy way is to give them an amazed look at the sheer ignorance of their comment, maybe make a condescending remark, shrug and walk off.
The hard way is to actually show the Soldier the Army way and do the job of enforcing the standard. It is hard because the regulatory guidance that establishes the standard are not always readily available or known by the NCO and can come from diverse sources such as ARs and post/command policy memos.
It is, and most likely never will be, acceptable to 'brush off' any NCO making a correction regardless of Branch or unit. The only way it becomes culture is if we, the NCOs charged with maintaining discipline and standards, allow it. The only way to prevent it is to train our NCOs to know what is right, do what is right, and enforce the same.

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Aug 21 at 2019 5:32 PM

Cpl Bernard Bates — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:32:37 -0400

What the hell is basic training for if you cant teach a recruit how the military works. An NCO is not unit wide only, it is Army wide. You do not talk back to an NCO same as you wouldn't talk back to an Officer. In my day we didn't have much of a problem. If a lower rank person talked back to an NCO. they would usually find themselves on a work detail by their own NCO. I didn't take basic training in the Army but I went to boot camp at Parris island in June, July and August 59. I assure you that you didn't give the DI any lip. (your ass is grass and I!m the lawn mower) is what he told the recruits. NCO,s work together. In the first place respect the Rank not the Man. NCO,s should back each other up. A unit is only as good as the worst man in it. Semper Fi.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 21 at 2019 6:19 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 18:19:40 -0400

As an NCO you are required my your oath-and promotion orders to instill and maintain discipline, they do not say " just in your unit!" You should beat somebody up outside your unit, but you can still tell them they are wrong and how to correct it. They don't like, get the name and unit and call/see their CSM or 1SG.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Aug 21 at 2019 11:49 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:49:55 -0400

It is your responsibility to correct. If the offender brings up the unit, you can advise him he's correct, so you would like his name and unit so that you can submit a report to his unit. So far as the other NCO goes, I'd ask him/her to step to the side and advise him/her that if they had been paying attention and made the correction, you would not have had to correct his soldier.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Aug 22 at 2019 9:09 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Thu, 22 Aug 2019 09:09:32 -0400

If the Post Commander doesn't care, then his Subordinate Commanders will not care. His MP Commander will not enforce it. All because from the top down it ain't happening in their eyes.
It's a Leadership Failure and the top of your Post's leadership are the ones at fault with the majority of the blame being your Post's CSM since good order and discipline (though one of the Commander's Responsibilities) is the DUTY of the NCO Core. Even in non-combat, units need to utilize the Chain of Command by soldiers following the orders of their immediate supervisors. Regulations that deal with good order and discipline are only one method to accomplish this task.
The discipline of a soldier and his chain of command needs is practiced in the non-combat situations of garrison. In that environment the officers can determine which subordinates leaders in their units need development and which can assume more responsibilities/higher duties. When Sub-Team/Team Leaders lead troops, Squad/Section leaders are leading TLs and Platoon Leaders (PSG enforcing/guiding) their subordinates then the Company is setting up for success.
I wish you luck with changing your post's command climate Leadership starts at the top.
My advice is, based on your rank, express your concerns about the issues to your chain of information, but ensure that your own junior NCOs are taking care of you own element's corrections.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2019 10:01 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Aug 2019 22:01:53 -0400

I never had a problem making corrections, my Soldier or another unit.
If their NCO is there, they'd get it, too, for failing to make the correction.