What is your opinion on Drill Sergeants without combat experience? Do you think they are unfairly pressured to prove themselves?

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 22:43:40 -0400

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2017 10:46 PM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 22:46:57 -0400

To elaborate, do you think DS without combat experience are judged by their peers? I don't think it changes an individual's capability to effectively train soldiers. I know others may disagree.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Jun 14 at 2017 10:47 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 22:47:23 -0400

My Drill Sergeants were Aces. Each and Everyone of them. I feel that they Must have been pressured: CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member to perform at there highest level.
Most Sincerely, Margaret C. Higgins U.S. Army (Ret.): Coach/Photographer

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2017 10:48 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 22:48:29 -0400

Hopefully our nation will return to a state of affairs where there's a shortage of combat experience. We've had a few times in the past where there was very limited combat experience in the service. You can't force something that isn't. If drill sergeants haven't deployed, or experienced combat, because of a lack of combat, I don't see that as a bad thing!

Response by SGM Mike Barbieri made Jun 14 at 2017 10:51 PM

SGM Mike Barbieri — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 22:51:08 -0400

I was one, back in the early 2000s. I don't think it hindered me in performing my duties.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2017 11:18 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 23:18:54 -0400

I don't really see how anyone other than a Drill Sergeant would know the "pressure" one would feel...

So this will wind up being a largely outside looking in question.

So. Same with...just about everything in the Army. Can you do your job? Cool, nobody cares.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2017 11:30 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 23:30:08 -0400

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member All Marine Drill Instructors are expected to perform at the highest level. As a recruit, if they said to squat with foot lockers on our backs, and do the squat walk and quack like a duck, I was the best duck there was. If they told us to squat thrust forever, I squat thrusted forever until told us to stop. Our junior DI was not a combat veteran, but that did not matter. He was a Corporal and a new DI, so he was not as hard nosed yet, as the other two DI's. Marine DI's have my utmost respect for the difficult job that they have. I do not think that most DI's with combat experience would look down on those without that experience.

Response by MSgt George Cater made Jun 14 at 2017 11:34 PM

MSgt George Cater — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 23:34:03 -0400

What does combat experience have to do with leading by example, being physically fit, following orders and a training schedule?

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 14 at 2017 11:41 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 23:41:41 -0400

I think they should be FAIRLY pressured to prove themselves

Just like every other Soldier that wears a DS badge

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2017 5:33 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:33:33 -0400

No they are not. At least not by their peers. If they do feel any pressure to prove themselves it is purely self-inflicted. When you are a Drill Sergeant, you really don't have time to figure out who has done what. You are expected to perform well above the standard. It doesn't matter if you've deployed, engaged in combat operations, or never deployed. You are selected to train and mold the next generation of warriors. The Army tells you how you will do just that. Combat experience helps add realism, but it's not necessary.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jun 15 at 2017 6:55 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:55:46 -0400

Honestly you're just there to produce basic Soldiers. Don't need combat experience for that....

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made Jun 15 at 2017 7:53 AM

SGT Scott Henderson — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 07:53:49 -0400

I think becoming a DS is enough to pressure some to try to prove themselves. That's why some are cool and some are assholes on a power trip

Response by SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood made Jun 15 at 2017 10:46 AM

SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:46:56 -0400

why should a Drill sergeant have to prove him or her self,they have by the virtue of being entrusted to develop recruits into lean mean fighting machine,combat should not define a soldier,go back to the cold war era ,and you have a generation of soldiers who never seen combat,didn't make them less than any other Drill Sergeant.I enjoyed all the push ups and gorilla drills from my Drills, one Drill Sgt. liked my last name so much,every time i heard him yell it ,i had to drop and knock em out until he was out of site.Thanks Drill Sergeant Goss A3-3 Ft Leonardwood MO

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Jun 15 at 2017 11:04 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:04:50 -0400

When I was on the trail I wasn't combat experienced, yet I feel I did my job very well. What matters is how the DS does his/her job and stay professional at it.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2017 11:18 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:18:46 -0400

While I have never (nor will ever because of my P2) served as a DS, I had some Drill Sergeants in Basic and AIT where some had right sleeve patches and some didn't. At no time did I feel that the lack of a patch on that right sleeve diminished their experience that they brought, nor did it force them to prove themselves more than those that had the patch. They were ALL equally professional (and scary at the same time).

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jun 15 at 2017 12:29 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 12:29:55 -0400

Like so many things in the military, things ebb and flow. There was a time when the military did not have a pool of combat experienced NCO or officers to pull from, today that pool is pretty full.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jun 15 at 2017 12:29 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 12:29:55 -0400

Combat experience isn't one of the requisites listed as a qualifier for DI duty. For many folks it's the luck of the draw weather they get an opportunity to serve in combat or not.

That said....after so many years at war I'd probably cast a second glance at a senior DI say of the E-7 variety in any of the combat or combat support MOS's that hadn't been.

I know of SSGs with as many as 5 combat tours in the engineers. So at some point you have to wonder if a person is actively engaged in dodging or just lucky as all get out.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Jun 15 at 2017 1:28 PM

SSgt Michael Cox — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:28:58 -0400

They have a job to do and it doesn't matter if they were in combat or not. Before they can train you they have to go back through basic again so they know how to train you.

Response by SPC Ruben Marin made Jun 15 at 2017 1:30 PM

SPC Ruben Marin — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:30:18 -0400

I had both DS with and w/o combat experience. It didn't hinder any of them from providing purpose, direction, and motivation to all of us buck privates. They were all highly trained and skilled soldiers capable of leading soldiers from the front. There was one though that had combat experience and he was literally crazier than a shit house rat. I worried about that guy for sure. Still a well trained soldier though with great skills.

Response by SP5 Marcus Payton made Jun 15 at 2017 5:16 PM

SP5 Marcus Payton — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:16:26 -0400

We need all types of leaders to make the army work a true leader knows his strong points and weaknesses that's what battle buddies are for

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jun 15 at 2017 5:36 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:36:59 -0400

I didn't know that was a thing. Maybe it's an Army thing. Hell, I remember after we completed recruit training and we were talking about MOSs and one of the DIs revealed he was in Food Service. It made you realize that anyone could be in his spot. Maybe between Drill Instructors it might be a big deal, but I don't know any recruits who get close enough to a Drill Instructor to examine their chest candy.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2017 5:37 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:37:18 -0400

I believe combat experience is important. From the perspective of an ALC SGL, I leveraged my combat experience to enhance the learning content. The Army Instructor badge also carries the words -EXPERTO CREDE” (meaning Believe One Who Has Had Experience in the Matter)

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Jun 16 at 2017 10:06 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 10:06:54 -0400

I been to combat 4 times and I always had the though of being a DS but when I got PTSD I though with my situation I would grab a soldier the wrong way or do something that I would regret or yell at one until I'm thrown out. But then I thought about because not everyone can be a DS because you have know when to draw the line. DS school is very hard, it don't mater if your combat veteran or not, because if you can't cut remember the saying or whatever they have to say to the soldiers when you are tested at the end, a combat patch don't mater. I think if you wear the Brown round and your private you better respect the Tradition and the History about the Drill Sergeant what is its purpose and why he or she are there to COACH, TEACH and MENTOR these new privates coming into the ARMY. So I say EARN THE BADGE. Gain the RESPECT, combat don't matter, they time will come some day.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 16 at 2017 10:22 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 10:22:03 -0400

I voted "no."

In the period between major conflicts, there's always some people without combat experience who become NCOs and field grade officers. As long as they are properly trained and supervised the same as their counterparts with combat experience, then I don't see a problem.

As a student pilot in 1969-70, I saw only two instructors out of 25 who had combat experience in Viet Nam. One was a Captain; the other, a Major. They did have a different perspective with regard to the cumulative BS present in most any training environment and some disdain for excessive paperwork (old IP saying: you graduate the grade book, not the student). However, I don't think their student pilots were any more or any less likely to complete the course. This was due to a high degree of standardization (quality control) in the pilot training program.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Jun 16 at 2017 10:22 AM

CSM Thomas McGarry — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 10:22:12 -0400

Tell you the truth I heard the same comment when I went through the Sergeant Major's Academy years ago, that all those accepted into the academy needed to have been deployed in country. Anyone who has been in the military for any amount of time should know soldiers are sent where needed according to the needs of the service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2017 11:02 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:02:08 -0400

Absolutely not. Every DI brings something to the plate. There's more then just Infantry in the military. The more situations you know the better chance for survival.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jun 16 at 2017 11:08 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:08:29 -0400

Just because you weren't in combat doesn't make you any less of a NCO soldier! Basic is just that...basic. Take them down and make them a basic soldier. AIT takes it from there. Now infantry or artillery or mechanized AIT...different story...those folks have the experience that will help soldiers be effective and survive on the battlefield. Not everyone has the "pleasure" of serving in combat. There are an extreme number of other positions that are just as valuable to ensure combat is effective and those folks are trained to be DI's just like the rest are and can take a raw recruit from civvies to a soldier just like any other.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2017 5:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 17:18:17 -0400

It different then when I went to basic training their was not 1 drill sergeant that has been to combat but that was 1989 we were lucky to see a 1SG or a CSM that been to Vietnam. Now we look at everyone's sleeve to see if they been to combat which to me that don't mean anything because the theater to get the patch was huge it included UAE, Kuwait. Doha so I think I had good Drill Sergeants knew their stuff tactically and technically proficient most 300 APFT

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2018 5:21 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jun 2018 17:21:22 -0400

Like many of the responders have said, combat experience is not a requirement to train Soldiers. Basic Combat Training is just what it says... "basic" It teaches you the foundation upon which other skills are built. You then move onto your AIT and learn the basics for your MOS. Your first duty station will continue the training according to their SOP and based off of what was taught up to that point in BCT and AIT.

As a current Drill Sergeant, I have only 10 weeks to turn someone from a civilian into as close as possible to a Soldier. BCT is dictated by Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) and they decide what is taught. As DS, we are able to add in tidbits of experience and knowledge, as it pertains to that training. Remember also that there have been many years in the past when there were Drill Sergeants without combat experience because we were not in any recent conflicts. That doesn't mean that Soldiers trained by them were any less effective during combat.

Additionally, as anybody that has been deployed multiple times can attest, no two deployments are the same. Combat is constantly changing which is why our TTPs are always changing. We adapt to overcome the enemy. We can't teach TTP in BCT since those are dynamic, but we can teach the building blocks that TTPs assume everyone knows.

Lastly, do you know who you put as your picture in the question of non-combat experienced Drill Sergeants? That is my friend SFC Moeller. I have personally worked with him and have known him for years. He has 3 combat deployments under his belt and is also the 2016 U.S. Army NCO of the Year. I highly doubt you asked SFC Moeller for his permission to use his photo on your blog post. Please take it down and replace it with some generic stock photo, not of a real Drill Sergeant.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2018 3:43 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 03:43:48 -0400

I honestly don't think most recruits know the difference.