What is your plan on "getting r done?" Civilian Education and Lifelong Learning (associates, bachelor's, master's, doctorate)

COL Vince Lindenmeyer, Ph.D. (Retired) — Sat, 27 Sep 2014 23:09:39 -0400

A new quarter in Community College starts every month, some colleges start every Quarter. Since the New Year's, what have you thought about doing for college and what is keeping you from doing it?

Regardless of how you performed in high school, you are in a different place now. You have learned to how to learn; you have become a lifelong learner; and you can learn under pressure. You are mature, reflective and you participate in the learning process.

As a member of the profession of arms, you have learned to continually adapt maintaining an expert body of knowledge. Professionals have the trust of the American people because of their expertise and continual learning.

The time is now to start your civilian education. If you are thinking of an online degree, your written communication will represent you. If you do not like that fact, then you may want to consider a "brick & mortar" degree.

Please use this discussion board help each other get r done. You are innovative, adaptive, smart and amazing. Your mom, dad, and/or spouse will be proud of you when you tell them of your new goal.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2014 11:49 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Sep 2014 23:49:43 -0400

Sir, this is a great question that I wish would have been brought up in better detail 20 years ago. I am about to be a retired Army Soldier after 23 years in service in less than 4 days. Sadly, I did not pursue a higher education until early last year. It's something I regret not doing and taking advantage of tuition assistance. Right now I am working towards my BA in Transportation and Logistics Management through AMU. I hope to eventually attain a Master's in the same as well as getting a BA in History. There are so many degrees worth pursuing that I may not have enough time.

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 28 at 2014 3:37 AM

SPC David S. — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 03:37:50 -0400

Sir way to set the bar high and lead by example.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2014 3:21 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:21:40 -0400

Getting it done Sir seemingly gets harder as life progresses. I knocked out a M.S. after I completed the SCCC. Once the Post 9/11 G.I. Bill came into effect, I immediately started a Ph.D through Capella. Needless to say it's taken some time. I began in 2009 and have stopped and started several times. No excuse, but a second marriage, 5 kids and work seemingly getting harder has slowed my progress.

I attended UMUC which I promote as a great experience. The SCCC at one point did a half classroom enviroment at Ft. Gordon that worked great. Capella's program is great, but like the advice I received once, stopping often times happens forever. I would recommend the slow and steady approach to education. I should have taken one class at a time continuously.

Response by COL Vince Lindenmeyer, Ph.D. (Retired) made Nov 23 at 2014 9:34 PM

COL Vince Lindenmeyer, Ph.D. (Retired) — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 21:34:30 -0500

I hope everyone enjoys a great holiday season with Thanksgiving and the Winter holiday coming up. What are your goals for JAN 2015? What can you do to set the conditions for self-development and education for 2015? You are in a different place now in your career, you are a self-starter, more confident and capable of teaching yourself through lifelong learning skills gained through your military occupation. You can do it. Have a great holiday but think of the next step!

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Nov 23 at 2014 9:47 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 21:47:49 -0500

COL Vince Lindenmeyer, Ph.D. (Retired) -- Sir, your words are inspiring and I appreciate the positive energy coming through my screen as I read your words of encouragement. As for me, when I was getting ready to leave the military, I had tons more questions than answers, and even though I started planning early (at least in my opinion), I still felt rushed and anxious when the time came to sign out for the last time. Personally, I went on to an MBA program and that provided some nice natural structure to carry me from the military uniform to civilian life, and I benefitted from that. Had I gone straight to a civilian job, that would have been a tougher adjustment for me to manage. Education now has provided me with new perspectives and also a bit of breathing room to step back from life (even if for a moment) and evaluate what I hope to accomplish in the next 1, 5, and 10 years...and set goals based on those. In the absence of goals, I think it's easier to underperform in the end and rationalize substandard outcomes. I've not thought much about whether I will pursue a PhD at some point later in life, and I would be curious to read additional materials you may have on that topic.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2014 10:12 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:12:10 -0500

Thank you CPT Aaron Kletzing for the heads up on this discussion. I entered the military with a bachelor's degree and went through ROTC. While still TPU (reservist) I started my Master's Degree utilizing my tuition assistance because my career (teacher) required me to have an additional 24 college hours post bachelor's within 6 years to keep my certificate to be able to have my profession still. So why not do a few more and get a Master's? I had decided to do it online. I am glad that I did that as I went AGR (full-time in the Army Reserves) and then completed my Master's a few months before I deployed. Since I was utilizing tuition assistance I did not have to take a certain amount of classes a term so I generally took one a term. After my deployment I was bored and figured why not go for a PhD so I applied and I am utilizing my Post 9/11 GI Bill. Due to be limited by time I had to go for two courses a quarter to keep within the timeline to not run out of benefits before I graduate. I am in my dissertation phase now and working on my research portion now. It is rough trying to balance work (company command and battalion plans officer), school, and have a life. So I decided, like most going for a PhD, that I can have a life after I graduate. I put my energy first in work and then in school. I have my parents pushing me to help me complete milestones based on my self-imposed deadlines. I plan to finish by March 2015. I am looking forward to graduating and not having to worry about another degree until War College. The only worry I have is that I am putting myself out of a job after the military as I will have a PhD and what school district will want to hire me to teach high school if I could teach college?

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Nov 23 at 2014 10:58 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:58:10 -0500

Education is more than just promotion points. Too many service members are interested in trying to maximize their points by taking CLEP/DANTES exams. Some even pay higher learning institutions to evaluate their AARTS transcripts to get credits that get points but do not necessarily help them for their post-military career that comes up faster than they realize. Don't get me wrong, there are many fields that have rediculously high promotion points to make it to the E-5/E-6 level. Without maxing civilian education, even the best eligible candidates can be left behind. Do what is necessary to max them out as soon as possible if that is your mid-term goal (4-year approx time frame), but focus on degree completion from a regionally accredited college. Sometimes that falls under a long-term goal (10-year time frame). These times have drastically reduced now that the deployments are slowing down. Education is incredibly expensive. On the outside, the majority f colleges only reduce tuition rates 10% for veterans so please use the DOD to pay the $4,500 a year towards your education every year. Colleges want that government money and they are prone to lower the rates to the exact maximum tuition that the government will allow. Again, post military tuition give the 10% off but the tuition rates are usually double then. No one wants to try paying $30,000 in student loans at approximately $350 a month for years to come. Let the military pay for your education. Remember all those leaders that said that they were "real soldiers" so they didn't have time for school? That is a statement made by people who are most likely scrambling now that they are civilians.
I spent my entire military career going to school whenever schools or deployments didn't make it impossible. Back in the day, we spent 2-3 years at one location going to the 4 or so schools that offered night classes on post. If you didn't finish the degree before you PCS'd you could find yourself at another assignment where they didn't even offer your degree at night. You found yourself changing majors, often several times. Online schooling has practially eliminated that nightmare. Again, ensure it is regionally accredited if you decide on that route.
Start your education now. It is never too late to start, but get on it. All those medals and awards that we earned in the military have great meaning and respect in the military community, but after your career their significance decreases immensely. If 1-2% serve in the armed forces that means that the majority of the civilian world will be clueless as to what you have been doing or what you can bring to the table. They want to know if you are certified, licensed, and /or what your level of education is.
It seems like a very difficult process and it can be a bit overwhelming but remember that no one wants you to fail. Colleges have advisors for every step of the way and Officers have all been through it at least to the bachelors level. RallyPoint is a valuable tool and full of resources as well.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Nov 23 at 2014 11:45 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:45:00 -0500

Working as a PSG in the WTU a few years back, I watched MANY Soldiers in the process of transitioning out of the Army with little done to set themselves up for success. The bottom line is when you go on USA Jobs, if you want a decent paying job, a bachelors degree is a min. requirement just to get in the door. It is disheartening to see those who have sacrificed so much and focused so much on their career to be left standing flat-footed once they are out. The sad thing is that much of what you've done and accomplished means very little in comparison to the accomplishment of completing your degree.
I am fortunate enough to be in an enlisted MOS that gives me a professional civilian license that enables me to get a job tonight if I needed to, but there are very few MOS's that do this.
A standard I've always tried to hold my guys to is to just take one class per semester, no matter what it was. I call it building your "credit." It does 2 things. It keeps you in mental shape to stay fresh in college level classes and it gets you one class closer to that little peace of paper that can change your life, your families life. As COL Lindenmeyer said; "get r done!"

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Nov 23 at 2014 11:42 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:42:55 -0500

Sir, I am on track to complete my Bachelor's Degree in September 2015. I am in the middle of a class now and then I will have four more to complete to attain this goal. This has been something that I have been working on for a very long time. I took my first college class from UMUC in 1992 in Hohenfels, GE. It has been a long ride with a lot of lack of motivation on my part, training distractors, deployments, conflicting requirements, etc. I am glad that I have stuck with it and knocked out classes where I could. It will be definitely me nice to have this goal achieved.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Nov 24 at 2014 12:21 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 12:21:18 -0500

Upon graduation from college and completion of ROTC I commissioned into the National Guard but struggled to find solid employment with my degree or experience. Thankfully the MICCC allowed me to have approximately a third of my master's completed. Between the credits obtained and the tuition assistance I managed to obtain my Master's at low cost to myself.

I am currently scheduled to attend the SCCC to branch transfer and will again have credits applicable towards another Master's degree. I am currently considering pursuing another Master's in a more technical (IT) field to go with many of the certifications I am obtaining, as well as my experience. I wish to one day pursue a PhD, but I am not yet sure in what subject as I hope to teach at a University in my retirement years.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2014 1:05 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:05:37 -0500

Where to begin... I can give a testimonial of my personal experience (take it with a grain of salt):

I was skeptical about online schooling. I started during an OIF deployment. Keep in mind I was an Arabic linguist so I went on missions practically EVERYDAY; this goes to show you how flexible an online faculty can be (especially with military). I was only a high school graduate in 2009 and went straight for a Bachelors (with a click). I figured aim for the highest I qualify for.

I could not paint a better picture of what to expect from online learning as COL Vince Lindenmeyer, Ph.D. (Retired) did. Expect a lot of writing and your written communication skills will be honed. You'll probably live on the computer if you're diligent.

Fast forward, I am proud to have received my BA in Intelligence Studies from the American Miltary University on my 32nd birthday and the Amry's Birthday on 14 June 2014.

One tip for starting undergraduates who speak a foreign language: Did you know that a DLPT language (provided a DA 330 is furnished) is equivalent to a huge chunk of college credits? In my undergraduate program my DLPT for Arabic (3/3) transferred into 30 college credits! Yes I said THIRTY.

II have used TA the whole time (except for that one time congress danced around funding where I ended up using Financial Aide for one semester). I haven't even touched my Post 9/11 GI Bill yet!

Today I am pursuing a Masters of Arts in Homeland Security with a Certificate in Leadership and Logistics. I am using Financial Aide now as I plan to put my post 9/11 GI Bill for law school.

Lifelong learning and especially online (through accredited institution) has a positive and profound effect on a person's resourcefulness.

If anyone has any questions ask. I am more than happy to share what I know.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2014 2:41 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:41:36 -0500

I will start by stating that I was just about failed high school. I had no ambition to study or to go to college. Thank God for the Army. Now before I am branded the traditional "Dumb Grunt" I would only add that I have grown over time. After my first term of service I did return school by attending a Community College. I was just back from Iraq in 04. I found it difficult to blend in with the other college students. They were just out of high school and I was just out of Iraq. So I went to my community college online. I greatly enjoyed it and excelled there.

I found the pace of online school to be much more appelling to me. I could complete classes much faster than in a class. I was working while I went online full time. It was a effort that paid off in the end. I was even able to attend online classes while I was in Iraq.

I am not dragging my feet to start a Masters Program. I hope to knock out some classes while I am deployed.

Response by COL Vince Lindenmeyer, Ph.D. (Retired) made Feb 15 at 2015 7:43 PM

COL Vince Lindenmeyer, Ph.D. (Retired) — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 19:43:20 -0500

You have two weeks until 1 MAR 15 and another quarter is starting at your local, on-post, on-base, college. What is keeping you from pulling the trigger on starting or finishing college?

You have a lot of transfer credits that can be assessed from your military training. Some of you may be half-way done with college and you do not even know it.

Challenge: Go to your local, community or on-post/on-base college and get your military training assessed for college credits. How close are you to an associates degree or bachelor's degree?

Response by SPC Maurice Dawson, D.Sc. made Jun 10 at 2015 8:30 PM

SPC Maurice Dawson, D.Sc. — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:30:41 -0400

Completion of 2nd doctorate, 3rd masters, and another Fulbright award would be nice. And let's not forget tenure and promotion. I agree with your second paragraph as I graduated high school almost the bottom of my class. I attribute that to not finding a passion. Army helped me find my passion and Navy expanded it.

-Dr. Dawson

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2018 7:13 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Nov 2018 07:13:11 -0500

My plan on "getting r done" is currently completing a Masters in Marketing from Southern New Hampshire University. Expected graduation date is May 2020. Also looking at potential doctoral degrees that are:
1. In my field or plan of study
2. Affordable tuition cost
3. Reasonable time to finish
Any advice from doctoral candidates and/or those who have a doctoral degree is welcome, especially those who completed them while on active duty.
Those of you in the process of completing their degree keep pushing and "get r done"!