What kind of punishment may I be looking at for attempting to purchase alcohol as a minor with an altered ID?

2018-07-16T20:16:04-04:00

I recently made a dumb mistake and attempted to purchase alcohol as a minor with an altered ID. The offenses are class 3 misdemeanors in the civilian world and I’d look at 0 jail time if I was a civilian. I’m currently flagged and under investigation. How extensive will my punishment be. I’ve been told an article 15 but I know that can range from a lot of different things

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Jul 16 at 2018 8:39 PM

2018-07-16T20:39:53-04:00

You're probably going to get a field grade article 15 and a chapter out of the military. I would start looking at what you're going to do after you're out.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 16 at 2018 8:46 PM

2018-07-16T20:46:40-04:00

Will your superiors fight for you?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2018 8:56 PM

2018-07-16T20:56:13-04:00

For starters, (as I understand the writing of the Articles) you violated Article 134 in the following sections: False or unauthorized pass offenses (Maximum punishment: (1) Possessing or using with intent to defraud or deceive, or making, altering, counterfeiting, tampering with, or selling. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 3 years. (2) All other cases. Bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 6 months. ; False pretenses, obtaining services under (maximum punishment: Of a value of $500.00 or less. Bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 6 months.

And that is if your command wishes to push for Court Martial. Otherwise, you could face the Article 15 process which is Summary, Company and Field Grade.

Maximum Punishments In Article 15s:

Summarized: Restriction 14 days, Extra Duties 14 Days, Oral Reprimand or admonition, or any combination
Company: Restriction 14 days, Extra Duty 14 days, Pay forfeiture 7 days; Reduction of 1 grade (E4 and below)
Field Grade: Restriction 60 days, Extra duty 45 days, Pay forfeiture Half month pay for 2 months, Reduction of 1 or more grades (E4 and below)

But, I'm not a lawyer so I have no idea what you would face nor what charges. I searched and found the most applicable Articles in the Manual of Courts Martial based on what you said. You could very well face different charges and face different punishments if it went to Court Martial.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2018 9:16 PM

2018-07-16T21:16:57-04:00

All depends on your Chain of command.

The better Soldier they think you are the better the result for you.

Be the Best Soldier you can be, take the punishment and move on.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2018 9:26 PM

2018-07-16T21:26:54-04:00

First off, admit what you did. You're not going to be the first Soldier to screw up and you won't be the last. What matters is showing that you won't make a pattern of this and that you accept that you made a mistake of your own choosing. You can say PVT or SPC so-and-so convinced you to do it but you're not a robot, own up.
Second, get with your first line leaders. Explain to them you know what you did and that you want to do what it takes to fix this. Hopefully you've already made an impact on them with your work ethic. If not, you've got a fight on your hands to prove that you are worth their time.
Third, contact Trial Defense Services. They're the part of JAG that advises or defends you on adverse actions. Whether you're facing an Article 15 or a Court Martial, don't wave your rights to speak with counsel.

Good luck.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2018 9:37 PM

2018-07-16T21:37:49-04:00

http://www.wood.army.mil/sja/TDS/article_15_fact_sheet.htm

article_15_fact_sheet.htm

Response by SPC Michael Dillon made Jul 16 at 2018 9:39 PM

2018-07-16T21:39:38-04:00

Own up to mistakes. Be honest. Don't give a song and dance explanation. More than likely be on restrictions ( like being grounded) lots of area beautification (yard work) loss of rank (no allowance) til you prove yourself.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2018 10:41 PM

2018-07-16T22:41:03-04:00

Plenty of good articles online to help you understand your rights. PM someone (a senior contact) rather than post what could be used as admission of guilt online. Just a thought...

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Jul 16 at 2018 10:50 PM

2018-07-16T22:50:01-04:00

CPL Private RallyPoint Member: Private I send you fervent prayers for future success. I would just learn from your mistake, forget about it, and, move forward into your future.

Response by Sgt Erle Mutz made Jul 17 at 2018 12:52 AM

2018-07-17T00:52:28-04:00

When you swore your OATH you also swore to obey and uphold the UCMJ. You even had to learn the UCMJ for future questioning by your superiors, and while you're assigned 'watch duties'. It makes absolutely NO sense for you to "break any rules", let alone the UCMJ. If you get discharged with anything less than an Honorable Discharge, you will suffer long term damage when you are a civilian again. It's never worth the gamble.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2018 1:41 AM

2018-07-17T01:41:12-04:00

What the offenses are in the civilian world does not matter, and it would also be unacceptable behavior if you were a civilian. Own up to your poor decision making, take your punishment and move on with your life.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 17 at 2018 5:39 AM

2018-07-17T05:39:58-04:00

What you did was stupid, yes you know but I had to say it. I’ve seen it many times over the years. It all depends on what you say and portraying true remorse as your peers said earlier. Apologize and ask for leniency, promise and follow through to become and even better person/Soldier. I will not predict the future, if you have been a good Soldier and have a good COC you will survive a first offense. Be humble and apologize for the embarrassment you have caused. Thank you for your service.

Response by LCpl Domingo Ariza made Jul 17 at 2018 6:24 AM

2018-07-17T06:24:17-04:00

It is wonderful to think I was not the only dip stick in the service that got caught up when I was a youngster. In your case, do like these folks said own up to your inexperience and keep this in mind the military won't hang you for being dumb, however, they will slap the shit out of you, either way, you will survive an A15. Learn from it and don't screw the pooch again, shoot I collected two of them in my day and to be honest one of them was worth it.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Jul 17 at 2018 7:04 AM

2018-07-17T07:04:17-04:00

I will try to keep it in plain and simple language.

1. Most likely you will receive a Field Article 15. Expect to be maxed out.

2. During your initial hearing be honest an admist your deeds then confer with your trial defense. Be the best Soldier you can be from this point on.

3. The Army avoid discharging folks but the Art 15 will be a permanent stain in your file so in the future the need to dumb a few folks guess who's file will be scrutinized?

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2018 7:27 AM

2018-07-17T07:27:50-04:00

Well a lot of others with opinions here. So I will give you advice from someone who was a lance corporal who did the same thing back in 2003.

I did the same thing I had a fake ID to purchase alcohol as a minor. I never got caught buying the beer with the fake ID I just was an idiot got drunk and lost the ID. They traced it back to me very easily. I fessed right up told them the reason why I had the fake ID then from there was in the Company Commanders officer standing tall. Since I was an outstanding Marine at my job and the war was ramping up My Company Commander recommended Battalion NJP. (Which is what the Army calls Article 15 I still don't understand why they don't call it NJP because it is a Non-Judicial punishment still....)
Went to the Battalion Commanders office reported in and took my lashings like a true marine I received 45/45 and forfeiture of pay since I was becoming a father the Battalion commander ended up not taking my pay and I only received 45/45 and of course busted back down to private.
Learned my lesson and drove on. I defiantly could of been court martialed for the offense but I had great SNCO's looking out for me that had my back.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Jul 17 at 2018 10:56 AM

2018-07-17T10:56:18-04:00

HARD TIME breaking rocks up to tiny stones at military prison.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2018 11:09 AM

2018-07-17T11:09:49-04:00

Honesty is the best policy and the fastest way to any sort of leniency. But you do need to understand that while in the civilian world, it is a Class 3 misdemeanor, in our world, you may be given anything from a Summarized Article 15 to a trial by Court Martial for infractions of Articles 92 (Failure to Obey Orders or Regulations), 121 (Wrongful Appropriation of Goods or Services), and 134-18 (Obtaining Goods or Services Under False Pretense).

Now, I am not trying to scare you, but I want you to be aware that these are the types of things that can be levied against you, so that you don't go into it unprepared. This also serves to give you an idea about what to discuss with your attorney (GET AN ATTORNEY).

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 17 at 2018 12:39 PM

2018-07-17T12:39:44-04:00

1. You are not a civilian. 2. If you are lucky a Company grade Art15. Max use to be 14/14 (restriction/extra duty/pay)and or a loss of 1 stripe.

Response by SSgt Max Gonzales made Jul 17 at 2018 12:46 PM

2018-07-17T12:46:05-04:00

I was up for a letter of reprimand,for something I didn't do. It was dropped later due to insufficient evidence. Own up and let it run its course. Show that your willing to make amends and walk the straight and narrow.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made Jul 17 at 2018 1:45 PM

2018-07-17T13:45:24-04:00

If it happened off post. You may be alright. Depends on your chain of command. I’d say your a dumbass for doing it. Pay your fines and don’t do it again. Why should you pay twice for something your gonna have a fine for. But I’m not a lawyer. I’m just an old tanker. And that’s how I would handle it

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Jul 17 at 2018 2:11 PM

2018-07-17T14:11:32-04:00

What type of ID?

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2018 3:16 PM

2018-07-17T15:16:21-04:00

Only your CO (or his Sr Enlisted) can answer that. If you've been a good soldier in word and deed prior to this, your Chain of Command may be able to avoid Art 15 or lessen the NJP level/punishment. If not - stand by for heavy rolls.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jul 17 at 2018 4:22 PM

2018-07-17T16:22:27-04:00

A mistake is like calling Joe the plumber, John; or not knowing the yellow pump head is for diesel and putting diesel fuel in the gasoline fueled truck . You made a bad decision to try to do something purposely wrong. You obviously knew you were under age and Heck; you even had an altered ID... Not a mistake.
Depending on your unit and their policies an article 15 at the company or field grade level sounds about rite for the act you committed. Look at AR 27-10 and it will list the range of punishments available to commanders under those levels of authority.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2018 12:49 PM

2018-07-18T12:49:50-04:00

Just admit to what you did, don't make any excuse, accept your punishment and do your best to move on form there. Expect some form of article 15, do it and get it over with and keep your nose clean.

Response by SPC Henry Francis made Jul 25 at 2018 11:45 PM

2018-07-25T23:45:47-04:00

All the comments thus far are good advice. You do want to avoid being discharged under other than honorable conditions by every means available. This offense is not likely to get you there unless more problems in your service preceded this issue. In 1972 I was sent to CCF (Correctional Custody Facility) for 30 days for having been AWOL. CCF was essentially a redo of Basic Training. There were no bars or fences, just lots of drill and exercise, locker inspections. We were housed in old WWII style single story wooden barracks. Tell your immediate chain of command you know you screwed up and apologize for dishonoring them and your unit. Convince them that you want to correct your error. Correct it and everything will be okay. I speak from experience.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2018 3:51 PM

2018-07-31T15:51:01-04:00

There’s honestly no way to tell. I’ve seen people get really hemmed up for less and I’ve also seen people get away with a lot more. Your best bet is to express your regret and try to assure whoever you stand in front of that it won’t happen again. The rest is in their hands. Good luck.

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 31 at 2018 12:09 PM

2018-08-31T12:09:06-04:00

I cannot answer the question without knowing how your chain of command feels about you and your performance history, and the details of the incident.

Seek competent legal advice.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jun 12 at 2019 2:09 PM

2019-06-12T14:09:16-04:00

A significant part of determining what punishment you will get is determined by your reputation and how you present yourself at the article 15 hearing. The best that could be happen is that you are let off with a warning. The worst that could happen is the Commanding officer decide to nail you and refers the case to a court-martial. Neither of those outcomes is likely.

You should have asked yourself the question, BEFORE you altered the ID.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Jun 12 at 2019 2:28 PM

2019-06-12T14:28:37-04:00

Man up, admit your fault and embrace the suck! Most likely you’ll be maxed out Field grade Article 15. Forfeiture of 1/2 pay, 45/45, loss of rank and a very personal relationship with your CSM; particularly on weekends and holidays!!!!!

I sweat, you aren’t the first not the last Soldier to screw up. Just learn from the experience and get get your act together!!!!!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 3:11 PM

2019-06-12T15:11:42-04:00

Honestly depends on how much potential you have. I’ve seen dudes get separated for less because they were shit bags, and dudes skate on worse stuff because they were studs. I hope for your sake you shot expert and your PT is 270+

Response by SPC Cesar Freytes made Jun 12 at 2019 5:18 PM

2019-06-12T17:18:49-04:00

What ID did you alter???? That might have a lot to do with your punishment You better hope it wasn't your military ID. Good luck

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2019 1:26 PM

2019-06-13T13:26:23-04:00

This is all subjective & speculation on my part & anyone's part since we don't know you personally CPL Private RallyPoint Member ... It all depends on you & your Chain of Command. If you've been a model Soldier & this was your first screw up, then they may go lightly on you. If you've messed up before, then they might max you out on a Field Grade Article 15 (especially if you've had a Company Grade or two before). If you did the deed, then admit your mistakes & take whatever they throw at you. Drive on & finish whatever punishments they recommend & don't screw up again! You might end up being a better person and Soldier in the end.

Response by COL Carl Jensen made Jun 13 at 2019 5:10 PM

2019-06-13T17:10:06-04:00

Non Judiciary, was it on post or off? Off post in civilian world you would be fined. As CO I'd tell you not to let it happen again. You know you shouldn't, but if you were drinking with your friends off post and didn't return soused or picked up by the MPs for DWI, I would not do anything, if you are young enough to take bullets and shrapnel, you are old enough to have a few beers. LOL, I had my 1st beers at age 4 during WW II. (off post)

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Jul 28 at 2019 1:17 AM

2019-07-28T01:17:35-04:00

Hopefully you learned from this mistake.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 7:41 PM

2019-12-03T19:41:13-05:00

So what ended up happening?