What part of our society is ultimately responsible for the shooting at Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, FL?

CSM Charles Hayden — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 22:33:43 -0500

Beyond my utter shock and dismay at this latest school shooting, I ask myself why? Who failed “us”. why?

Do we need a ‘police state’ to moniter and report eveyone with an personality abberation?

Do too many of our citizens choose to look the ‘other way”’ rather than accept the responsibilty of reporting “deranged members of society”?

At age 12, in 1945, I was cleared to ‘fire at will’ on the farm. I possessed a 22 caliber rifle and the 410 shotgun arrived soon after.

Positive action is needed, your thoughts?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2018 10:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 22:50:39 -0500

I don’t know CSM Charles Hayden, Red flags were all over this guy. There were two school police officers on duty, in the school. It was premeditated first degree murder. The shooter set off the second alarm and when the kids began leaving their classrooms, he began shooting. The AR-15 he used had to come from his parents, someone he knows, illegally, ???
My wife and I were just discussing this. We think if someone wants to do this, there’s nothing to stop them. I just don’t know. There’s got to be a way to stay on top of this and prevent it from happening. Armed guards at each entrance. Positivity, absolutely no back packs, clear or not. Medal detectors? I’m just sick about this as are millions of parents, teachers, friends, families. Those poor parents who lost their child. We lost a 20 year old to a drunk driver in 1994. It’s still hurts as much now as then. These parents will never get over this.

Response by MSgt Cayle Harris made Feb 14 at 2018 10:53 PM

MSgt Cayle Harris — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 22:53:23 -0500

It's easy for some people to blame the object (firearms), but it's much deeper than that.
It truly is a people problem. Take away all the guns, and people will use knives. Take away knives and they will use hammers, bats, clubs, rocks, etc.
Parents need to be involved in their children's lives. Neighbors, friends, everyone, need to say something if they see something that could be an early warning. People don't want to get involved, and disrupt the status quo. We really need to get back to being "communities". Everyone looking out for one another. Unfortunately, it's not likely to happen anyone soon.

Response by SPC Mike Lake made Feb 14 at 2018 10:57 PM

SPC Mike Lake — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 22:57:22 -0500

Political issue , gun free zones are targets full of sitting ducks. if teachers were allowed to carry concealed it could save many more lives because the threat doesn't know who has a gun and who doesn't compared to no one in a gun free zone where there are no guns imho

Response by Maj John Bell made Feb 14 at 2018 11:12 PM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 23:12:08 -0500

The ultimate responsibility lies with the gunman. That's it. Period.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Feb 14 at 2018 11:18 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 23:18:52 -0500

We have shown that Americans need adult supervision

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2018 11:32 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 23:32:50 -0500

Is it really a society issue or a individual issue?
Do we really need a Stalin Purge to fix these issues?

I hope not..
Here is video I found very informative, and thought provacative.....
https://youtu.be/QgdNPxcfFvE

MSG Bo

An Era That Never Learned To Take A Punch | Martial Arts Philosophy

Woman's original story: https://www.facebook.com/noorfadel8/posts/727523377440699 A story of a woman who was assaulted in broad daylight while no one came to...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2018 11:42 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 23:42:58 -0500

Plain and simple. No other explanation. The shooter, and ONLY the shooter, is responsible for this tragic and needless loss of life.

Response by Cpl Jon Westbrook made Feb 14 at 2018 11:59 PM

Cpl Jon Westbrook — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 23:59:54 -0500

As a society we could start with morals and completely reject the idea of moral relativity. Then recognize the fact that we have traded the concept of "tolerance" and making everyone feel good about themselves ,regardless of their life choices, for standing up for what is right. Then we could look at the fact that phones and social media are turning us into self absorbed narcissists who stake their own personal value on the feedback they get from posting pictures of themselves constantly and whining about their "first world problems". Then while we're at it we could look at the fact that most of the time these people do this because they have been rejected by society, and the only way they feel they will be worth anything is if they are made a celebrity by the media for shooting up a school.

Nobody teaches their kids right from wrong anymore. It's "This is okay for jimmy because he has different morals than we do." or "Even though I know this is wrong, society is telling me that I'm a [insert random adjective-ist] and I will be vilified for being "intolerant".

I'm gonna be honest here folks. All of these are symptoms of a dying society. Don't believe me? Look at Rome. Rampant over-sexualization, senseless violence, the abandonment of ideals in favor of tolerance, obsession with material objects...The truth is America is on the verge of a cultural collapse, but 90% of the country is believing the corporate narrative shoved down their throat every day. "Just buy this new thing and everything will be okay. What do you have to worry about? Just drink and party and everything is fine." Shit, even the media is owned by the corporations.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Feb 15 at 2018 12:27 AM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:27:56 -0500

Sometimes bad things happen. The shooter clearly had mental issues, but the fault still clearly lies on him. He is responsible for his actions.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 12:35 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:35:37 -0500

Responsible is the guy who pulled the trigger. What we can do is not have a soft target. Allow people who are able to defend themselves and others.

Response by TSgt David L. made Feb 15 at 2018 12:44 AM

TSgt David L. — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:44:33 -0500

This pains me beyond words. So far it seems that we all blame the shooter, as it should be. I hate it as a parent. I hate it as a gun owner. I hate it as someone who values the freedom we all enjoy. There is little we can do to prevent events like this as a nation that enjoys the kind of liberty that we have, and deserve. No law can stop someone with evil in their heart. But laws will be passed in retaliation to tragedies like this.
Parents have failed us by ignoring problems or encouraging abhorrent behavior. Blaming society when the fault is their own. Snowflakes are our future? I sure hope not.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Feb 15 at 2018 1:24 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 01:24:30 -0500

Charlie Leopold; a former co-worker told of hitching a ride on the back of a street car in Chicago - in the 1930s. Cops wold grab the miscreants, kick them in the ass or cuff them about their head and say, ‘get out of here’.

Today’s policemen cannot touch a kid.

How many ‘personal rights’ are citizens equipped to accept responsibility for?

Response by Billie Purvis made Feb 15 at 2018 1:34 AM

Billie Purvis — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 01:34:58 -0500

Ultimately, I feel it is the parent’s responsibility to educate their children about guns. If you don’t want guns in your home, it’s still the parent who should at least familiarize their child with a gun. There are safety courses and gun ranges who can help parents if needed. It is not for one minute the fault of guns in society. Guns have done way more good than bad for world. Im tired of the uneducated naysayers who want to get rid of our guns.
As far as mental issues, it’s safe with the private medical laws. People snap for some of the craziest reasons, they may have never had any mental issues before a situation occurs. Things like this are happening more everyday. Bullying, notoriety, love, etc. This is what our world has come to.

Response by PO2 Bronwen Taylor Shaffner made Feb 15 at 2018 3:13 AM

PO2 Bronwen Taylor Shaffner — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 03:13:48 -0500

Somewhere along the line we abandoned free thinking, and the idea that it takes a village to raise a child. Instead our schools are indoctrinating the potential minds of our future who could solve and alleviate the struggles in today’s society into thinking there’s only one way to do it, or this is the only way you must think on this issue or else you’ll be labeled. It is my belief that once in awhile a person who doesn’t conform to the “standards” of today, who cannot stand up to the challenges of their life, who does not experience great mentors in their community Snap. They fall below the radar because no one can see them sneaking behind you doing normal everyday tasks while your distracted with less important conversations. The battles of discourse have been drawn between privileged and under privileged. Between mental illness and gun control. Between colors of race, sexuality, and gender. But at the end of the day when a mass shooting happens only two above will get the most attention. Mental illness and gun control.

*My apologies for any typos. I tried to check for any. But this phone makes it difficult.

You see society won’t fix itself until the lines of discourse have been turned into a blur and merge. There are so many underlying issues in our country. The only comfort I find is within my Military and Veteran community because within it those lines are blurred. One of the only, maybe the only community you’ll find in the country who can work together more efficiently together. We take care of each other when care is needed. We raise each others kids and don’t bat an eye. We teach respect and manners. These still exist outside but are fading, as the talks of mental health and gun control rise.

Response by SPC Charles Hunt made Feb 15 at 2018 4:34 AM

SPC Charles Hunt — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 04:34:46 -0500

The part named Nikolas Cruz

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Feb 15 at 2018 7:40 AM

SGT Frank Pritchett — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 07:40:51 -0500

No matter what the problem is, liberals are going to accuse gun owners in order to get the 2nd amendment repelled. Someone knew that the teenager had an AR-15 and they did nothing that is the problem. When we can no longer get guns then people will make their own. The American ingenuity is powerful which is what makes us so strong, we should blame it on the Chinese for inventing gun powder.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 7:45 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 07:45:36 -0500

CSM Hayden- I'd like you to follow up this post with a part II and ask for solutions to the issue.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Feb 15 at 2018 8:51 AM

CW4 Guy Butler — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 08:51:09 -0500

I’ll take “Thoughts and Prayers” for $100, Alex.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 8:57 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 08:57:27 -0500

I don't suppose any of us have all the answers, but I'm sure all of us want some.

Thinking on this last night, I realized that to find the "answer" we have to click a mental switch and "ignore" the rhetoric on both "sides" of the gun-control debate. If "banning" them would work, ok...but it wouldn't because with millions of arms out there, even a total ban would be virtually impossible to put into effect. This makes me think that neither a "ban", nor total inaction offers any solution.

We probably have to start asking hard questions about the shooters...what "makes" a human being so distant from humanity, compassion, and even personal preservation to walk into a school and start killing? I think it's because we've created a totally self-centered society that values little, because everything that gives value has been questioned.

Our students can't be proud to be Americans anymore...because supposedly everything about "America" is bad. They can't be proud of their heritage anymore...because supposedly everyone's ancestors were either genocidal opportunists or victims. They can't be proud of their accomplishments anymore...because supposedly just being a "success" is evidence they had an unfair advantage, and failure is just proof of being "underprivileged". Hell, they can't even look forward to any sort of self-fulfillment...because from marriage to parenthood to even securing a decent job, nothing is expected to endure.

They can't even believe that there's anything beyond the grave anymore....for fear someone's sensibilities will be offended if they do.

What do we offer as an alternative?

Drugs to make the feelings of failure and irrelevance go away? Hyper-realistic games that allow them to play out violent and carnal fantasies without consequence? Films depicting "heroes" who in earlier times would've been considered "villains"? We have young women being "rated" on a scale based on "so many out of ten would not..." and young men encouraged to suppress any aggression while in contrast, being shown that only the most aggressive males succeed.

I think we have to return to some values...we shouldn't have to measure each to make sure no one is going to take "offense" before we do. We need discipline...not a laundry list of excuses forcing educators, mentors and parents to ignore anarchy. We need a society that defines "good" and "bad"...we shouldn't have to debate which is what that much.

Finally, we need to learn to accept that there is such a thing as "evil", and sometimes, it doesn't need a "reason". We need to practice some common sense in protecting ourselves and our children from it. We can't afford to ignore the warning signs simply because the standard for "reasonable doubt" has gone into the toilet.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 9:02 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:02:38 -0500

A good question and one we must explore. But, at the same time, the question itself tends to shift blame away from the shooter.

New laws controlling guns? Why would we think the a person who just committed 17 first degree murders would somehow obey a new law?

If someone has an answer by all means come forward.

My answer is that we must return to respecting each other and refuse to allow the constant shift of blame away from the wrong doer.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 9:08 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:08:56 -0500

It seems we now live in a society where some people have been raise totally devoid of any moral or social conscience. To me it is unthinkable for someone to walk into a school and just start shooting down unarmed students and teachers but we now have people who are doing it. I don't know if it is social upbringing or video games, or even movies. But somewhere along the line we are raising kids who seem to think this is okay and they way to get even or what ever they are thinking. Maybe it's the news and all the TV coverage they give to this type of stuff. So along comes this morally degenerate who plots out all this killing. I would like to see his psychological evaluation, there has to be something wrong with him.

Response by PO1 Don Gulizia made Feb 15 at 2018 9:44 AM

PO1 Don Gulizia — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:44:49 -0500

We are being conditioned for selective outrage. Yes, this is another tragic and unnecessary event that I wish didn't happen. However, why are we only outraged when someone commits one of these atrocities but not be equally outraged that Baltimore went a whole 12 days without a homicide? There’s something like one murder per minute in the U.S. We don’t need more gun laws making it harder to acquire legal guns. We need to focus on mental health and make more severe illegal gun infraction consequences. We focus too much on the anomalies and not on the common occurrences.

Response by SPC Mitch Saret made Feb 15 at 2018 10:06 AM

SPC Mitch Saret — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 10:06:51 -0500

While the shooting is a horrible event, it's not really society. As we are learning, the shooter has been showing signs for quite some time. The gun free zone policy makes it easier for those with intent. Schools near me have altered their intruder response plans to be more than hiding in a corner. However, having a resource officer, that's what they are calling a police officer assigned to a school, would be beneficial. Or even a retired cop or military as a carrying security officer would be beneficial.

Response by SPC David Willis made Feb 15 at 2018 10:16 AM

SPC David Willis — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 10:16:50 -0500

The answer cannot continue to be thoughts and prayers. We try hard to defeat sickness and extremism abroad but when it comes to our children we keep rolling over and asking to be fucked again and again. The military builds and protects schools in foreign countries so their kids can go to school, but at home they MAY have one cop on site. This kid got expelled and had all kind of issues and he still was able to legally own a firearm AND get smoke grenades.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 15 at 2018 10:20 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 10:20:39 -0500

1. We failed. 2. Parents have not taught their kids to respect much of anything. 3 14 teenagers commit suicide daily- most of the time due to bullying, lack of respect. 4. This kid was not of legal age to purchase weapons nor ammunition- so where did he get them? 5. He was living with neighbors- why- what happened to the parents. 6. Where did he hide these weapons, items, why did no one know? 7. The kid was a troublemaker, had threatened other students, not allowed to bring a backpack to school and later expelled- was law enforcement notified? 8. They had only 1 safety officer on hand for a multi-building high school of 3000 students- why? 9. We as society have glamourized the "bad boys/girls", the gangs, made publicity stars out of killers. 10. Big One- We as society have taught kids all about their rights and what they can do, but absolutely nothing about their responsibilities and obeying the laws!

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 10:29 AM

Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 10:29:20 -0500

I think we definitely need to start paying more attention to mental illness. A lot of people shrug it off or down play people when they ask for help. So many people struggle with it in the early stages if we gave them the support they needed initially things like this could be prevented

Response by PFC Michael Korach made Feb 15 at 2018 11:17 AM

PFC Michael Korach — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:17:29 -0500

All of us are in part to blame, School systems pay lip service to school security, the primary obstacle is admitting that their local schools are a target for a tragedy waiting to happen like the one in Florida. Money is the other obstacle yet many school systems are building new schools and fail to install serious effective security measures, yet we will spend billions on anti-gun ads as the fix.

Response by SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter made Feb 15 at 2018 11:18 AM

SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:18:38 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSLSMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" ThomasLTC Stephen F.SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SFC George Smith CPT Jack DurishSSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"PO1 William "Chip" Nagel TSgt Joe C.SP5 Mark Kuzinski Maj Marty Hogan MSG Private RallyPoint Member SSgt Private RallyPoint Member LTC Stephen C. LTC Private RallyPoint Member Capt Seid Waddell Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS My thoughts are that unfortunately there are some very deranged people in our society. However many don't show signs until to an act like such is committed. The other point I would like to make what are the Police to do if it's reported someone is acting strangely? They may come out and investigate they may not. Can they legally arrest the person for acting strange or deranged? If so he or she will be back on the streets in a few days. I am an legal gun owner and have been for over 30 plus years. By no means will I ever defend such a cowardly act as such. But my question will always be until there is a reasonable answer. Is the guns really the problem or the people?

Thanks for sharing,

Peace!

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Feb 15 at 2018 11:25 AM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:25:46 -0500

Reading the responses to this tragedy, I find, at least on this board, many who seem to shrug their shoulders and say "it's the shooter's fault" while others say "arm everyone." A few stand up and say "something needs to be done." Others blame the parent, society, and Liberals. I believe it is all of the above, and more.
As to "arm everybody" I fear that would be tantamount to buying a bottle of booze for every automobile driver out there. A disaster. I would support better trained, qualified, experienced security guards in place. Of course this would costs more that the old retired crossing-guard type, or the young, untrained individual. Hire professionals, pay the costs.
We as a society must step back and take a long hard look at ourselves and decide what kind of world we really want to live in, Do we want a society that shootings of our most precious quanity, our children, are in daily threat of being killed? Do we want a society where school shootings are the new normal?
In this latest tragedy, here is some food for thought:
19 year old Nikolas Cruz could not buy a Ruger Bearcat single-action 22 caliber handgun(I picked this one because it is a simple revolver) if he wanted to, but he was able to buy an AR 15 and multiple high-capacity magazines. Something is wrong there.

My words will probably make no impact here. I am not of an age to get out in public and campaign for answers to this problem. However, I will not sit back and be quiet. I will do what I can online and in my close group of family and friends. Will you?

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Feb 15 at 2018 11:37 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:37:00 -0500

I think "Live Fire" Drills would help improve readiness, especially in the lower grades and pre schools. The fact is there are a lot of nut jobs armed to the teeth out there

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Feb 15 at 2018 11:45 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:45:52 -0500

That's a really good question.

Response by SFC James William Bolt [ 40 Yards ] made Feb 15 at 2018 12:00 PM

SFC James William Bolt [ 40 Yards ] — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 12:00:04 -0500

THE SHOOTER IS THE ONE THAT KILL THOSE PEOPLE AND HE ALONE DID THE ACT AND NO ONE BUT HIM PLAN AND CARRY OUT THE DEED. THE BLAME REST ON HIM ALONE. SIGN 40 YARDS

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 12:12 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 12:12:53 -0500

WE all are somewhat responsible.

Response by SMSgt Keith Klug made Feb 15 at 2018 12:29 PM

SMSgt Keith Klug — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 12:29:56 -0500

Want to see what is going to happen to our country, and what has been happening. Read the article from Sir John Glubb called "The Fate of Empires and the Search for Survival" He wrote it in 1976. Everything he said is coming true. Not a long read either, only 26 pages.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 12:36 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 12:36:53 -0500

Its simple. The gunman, and the gunman only, is to blame. You can look at outside factors all you want, but at the end of the day, he made the conscious choice to pull the trigger.

Response by SFC Stephen Atchley made Feb 15 at 2018 2:52 PM

SFC Stephen Atchley — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:52:19 -0500

Lot of issues in play in these debates, and no one answer is going to to provide a solution. Eliminating 'marked' gun free zones might help in some cases. At least put some doubt in the mind of the nut bags that perpetrate these shootings. Another thing that might help is to stop turning the shooters into instant celebrities. Do not show their pictures. Do not say their names. Stop giving them the notoriety they crave. That might not stop the disgruntled employee from shooting the boss that fired him, but stop assuring the ones that are seeking Klebold and Harris level infamy that they will get it. If they commit these crimes they should be relegated to obscurity. Report on the crime, the victims, and the community. Do not reward the shooter, and inspire others to emulate the crime, by giving them an around the clock spotlight.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Feb 15 at 2018 6:06 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 18:06:16 -0500

You can't blame the shooter, he is a nut job incapable of making an intelligent decision. Shooting school children or waving his private parts, he is not in control. People say, YEAH BUT. No Yeah Butts about it. I worked at a VA where Vets checked in but never checked out. You always got their attention to ensure they were on our planet. There is NO CURE, so take preventive action

Response by SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez made Feb 15 at 2018 8:20 PM

SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 20:20:15 -0500

CSM Hayden,
I would treat this as a problem I used to have as an alcoholic many years ago. I found out through many AA meetings and counseling/group sessions that my problem was not the alcohol. The problem was or is, what led me to drinking, and that's what is going on here and other cases in the past. I still have some issues and embraced the fact that I won't be able to take a drink ever, I'm comfortable knowing that. I also think that part of the problem is at our homes where most parents try to be buddy buddy with their kids which in my opinion is a "no-go". All mine are in their 20s and I still tell them, "we're not homies". When you become their buddies, respect stops and authority figures is a none factor at that point. We have to really teach them that when you act or make certain decisions, there are certain implications. And when we don't like the implications or results of you bad decisions, this is what happens. I'm sure this individual has done this in the past, at a smaller scale maybe at home throwing or breaking stuff. That's when the problem should've been addressed, at home. I have turned to several news channels and they all saying the same thing, gun control, pointing fingers, etc. Tackle the real issues here...mental state and health of these kids nowadays. That's I work on everyday of my life, my mental state so I don't take that drink ever again.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Feb 16 at 2018 3:54 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 03:54:43 -0500

That is an intriguing question, my friend CSM Charles Hayden.
1. The primary responsibility for the massacre at Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, FL rests with Nikolas Cruz.
2. The primary responsibility for the massacre at Sandy Hook school in Connecticut on December 14, 2012 rests with Adam Lanza
3. The primary responsibility for the 1999 massacre Columbine High School, CO rests with Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold

Certainly other individuals helped or hindered the actions of these murderous thugs.
Concealed carry laws tend to inhibit violent crime.
Gun-free zones inhibit law abiding citizens while murderers ignore laws.
Good security processes in school districts help to ensure that people can't walk into an school with confirming who they are and a valid reason for being there [My district in Northern Virginia has ramped up security at public and private schools after 9-11-2001.]

There are many Federal laws which apply or inhibit communication among federal and state and local agencies. DSHS is making headway here. Sharing information from the military and FBI makes a lot of sense in terms of identifying violent criminal behavior. Sharing mental illness even if violence is a possibility is challenging based on privacy laws.

Increasing communication in a timely manner and having perceptive people reviewing the information to identify actionable intelligence that could be shared to local authorities in real time.
This takes trust which can not be mandated effectively. Trust is earned.

FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi LTC Private RallyPoint Member LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Jeff S. CPT Jack Durish MSgt Robert C Aldi SFC Stephen King MSgt Danny Hope SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SGT Gregory Lawritson Cpl Craig Marton SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT Private RallyPoint Member Maj Marty Hogan

Response by COL John McClellan made Feb 16 at 2018 8:41 AM

COL John McClellan — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 08:41:15 -0500

The shooter is responsible... but the object is the MEANS. I reject the notion that w/o the prevalence of guns, we'd be seeing "mass stabbings"... it's simply not the same as being armed with a high-powered rifle! The proof is in the rest of the civilized world. It's only in the USA (outside of war zones, that is) where this is happening. That's proven. So, something is different HERE. Yes, the individual is to blame, but at the same time we have some issues in America that we need courage and leadership to address, and the overwhelming numbers of guns is certainly one factor.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 16 at 2018 10:08 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:08:05 -0500

The perpetrator is responsible. We are failing to respond because a significant number of us are more concerned with protecting an ideology than protecting ourselves and our children

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2018 1:31 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 13:31:23 -0500

I want to share this, a gentlemen who teaches high school shared this with me today. They had a minute of silence for those who lost their lives down in Florida, he said he had 6 students who talked the entire minute. They could not shut their mouths for 1 minute for those who died. In some ways we are raising a selfish generation.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Feb 16 at 2018 2:49 PM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 14:49:07 -0500

What part of our society is responsible for the killing? How is this a question? The killer is responsible for the killing.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Feb 16 at 2018 4:07 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 16:07:08 -0500

Obviously we do need a Police State if we don't want thousands of children slaughtered

Response by COL John Hudson made Feb 17 at 2018 9:38 AM

COL John Hudson — Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:38:17 -0500

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is DIRECTLY responsible for this tragedy. They were notified well in advance, knew of the problems and potential and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I don't accept the apology by the head of that organization - I want him GONE! I want President Trump to FIRE this loser and get someone in there to clean house and make sure something like this NEVER happens again! No, there are no other options as long as we are homo sapient on this planet. Why? We are inculcated as a race with VIOLENCE in our genes (flight or fight). There is NO method in existence to know when any person is going to break due to individual factors and go off on a spree of violence. Want to do something positive attempting to turn this around? Turn off that damned TV set - throw it away - pass laws preventing the extent of violence used by the media and Hollywood. The "media" we have today is directly responsible for the hugely irresponsible influence on our young. I believe with all my heart in the First Amendment, but there has to be SOME better guidelines on permissiveness. And finally, what does anyone out there expect when we have society of latch-key kids, one-parent homes, young teens raising babies, drugs, combined with a horrific statistic demonstrating that one aspect of our society has 70% of babies born into a household with no father? Virtually all of this mess starts in the HOME and will never bet any better until that fact is corrected. My two cents. JCH

Response by SCPO Larry Knight Sr. made Feb 18 at 2018 9:32 PM

SCPO Larry Knight Sr. — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:32:51 -0500

I concur that the facts clearly show the shooters 100% responsibility in this horrendous crime ! As a member of the NRA and proudly supporter of the 2nd amendment, I question why does a (kid) need to poses an AR-15 etc ?

Response by SCPO Larry Knight Sr. made Feb 18 at 2018 9:46 PM

SCPO Larry Knight Sr. — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:46:33 -0500

The part of our society which allows the purchasing of this type of weaponry by a (Kid) ! This kid shouldn't have been allowed to purchase a weapon of this capability, or any other based on his history . Then again how does a gun shop know any of these issues, when running a background check. There's a need for a mandate stimulating stricter gun ownership , by a certain age bracket based on state and federal guidelines.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 19 at 2018 6:17 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 18:17:08 -0500

All of us collectively. If tomorrow, there was a news story that a toddler opened fire into a crowd with a machine gun, despite how horrible that is, I'm not going to be mad at the toddler. It's a toddler. It doesn't possess the mental faculties to understand the consequences of it's actions. I'm upset at the person or persons that thought it was ok for toddlers to have access to a machine gun.

The same is true of the mentally impaired. When we collectively decided to slash funding and medical availability of treatment for the mentally incompetent, in a weapons saturated nation, we all assumed collective responsibility for the ensuing fallout...

Response by CW5 John M. made Feb 19 at 2018 8:11 PM

CW5 John M. — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 20:11:43 -0500

I grew up in an era when a “Twilight Zone” movie gave me and my friends nightmares. We could play “Cowboys and Indians” interchangeably with no agenda or animosities, we drank out of hoses, rode bikes without helmets, shot our B.B. guns - all without injury “stigma” and a “litigious society”. I was in Elementary school in El Paso, TX, when we sang the National Anthem, sang Hymns in music class, held public (school) prayer, and Pledged Allegience every morning before classes. I remember at theatre houses, the entire audience would stand for the National Anthem before the show began. The National Anthem played each night at the end of a TV Program day. We brought our knives to School, played “mumblypeg” out in the schoolyard playground, which entailed throwing our knives into the ground between the feet of a playmate - all without incident or expulsion. I’ve seen kids bring rifles or other weapons to school for “show-and-tell” without incident. I never heard of a kid getting expelled until HS - when it was used more as a threat, than a reality. I could go on and on. My point is that my experience as a kid is only one generation removed from where we are today. This really alarms me, seeing the obvious direction our society has spiraled. I wonder what things will look like in one more generation.......

Response by SGT John Gaydos made Feb 23 at 2018 10:08 AM

SGT John Gaydos — Fri, 23 Feb 2018 10:08:51 -0500

The Parents or lack of them!!!

Response by SSG Jessica Bautista made Mar 1 at 2018 10:14 AM

SSG Jessica Bautista — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 10:14:31 -0500

Crime correlates with poverty. That's a good place to start.

Response by PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM made Mar 1 at 2018 10:40 AM

PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 10:40:00 -0500

There is plenty of blame to go around. This was a set of domino's that was started a while back when the School officials and the Sherriff agreed not to bring charges on those students who got into trouble to make the School District look better so they could get more federal funds. The Sherriff himself was a real piece of work who should have been removed long ago. What Commander refuses to take responsibility for the people under his command? The Commanding Officer if any Military Base or any SHip is responsible for the actions of every person assigned to their command. You do not shirk that responsibility like he did. And giving the order to stand down? Who does he think he is?? Hillary Clinton? The State and Federal legislature have armed guards and metal detectors for access to their chambers. All these Snowflakes who are crying about doing away with all types of guns have armed body guards. CNN MSNBC CBS all have Armed Guards at their Broadcast offices at New Your, Los Angeles and every other major City. There are Armed Guards at MLB, NFL NBA Games Even some of these Mega Churches have Armed Guards. but probably 99% of our schools are left unprotected... Am I the only one who sees a problem here?

Now if a person goes out and drinks all night long and then drives home with a BAL of 11.3. Turns down the wrong side of the road and runs head on into another car and kills the family in the other car. Do people blame the Wild Turkey and Johnny Walker he drank all night or the Ford he used? NO they blame the drunk driver.
If someone goes to McDonalds and eats 10 Double Quarter pounder with Cheese and Fries with a large Chocolate Shake every day for a month and then dies of a massive heart attack do people blame McDonalds? No It was that person's fault. He did it himself.
A mentally ill person who has had numerous instances of harming animals, threatening his foster parents, friends and threats to shoot up his school goes out gets a gun and even though there is a order that he cannot return to the school that he graduated from years past and cannot bring a book bag to. Comes back into the school and shoots it up killing and hurting teachers and students. The GUN is blamed.
What is the problem here?? The Problem is that the AR-10 and the AR-15 have been around since the 1950's but now the Democrats are in deep kimchee and they need something to detract the attention away from all the scandals they are involved in and the fact that Soretoro cold possibly be brought up on Treason charges Clinton could be brought up on Sedition charges along with Rice, and Florida Representative Washingmachine Schultz.

We need GOD back in our schools and the NEA and all other socialism out. I can promise you that there was a LOT of praying in that school no matter what the NEA or the ACLU or the Florida Legislature or the Broward County School Board had to say.

Response by PO1 Don Gulizia made Mar 1 at 2018 11:15 AM

PO1 Don Gulizia — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 11:15:10 -0500

I don’t’ think there is necessarily one “who” or one "why." I think there are a combination of factors for each tragedy and no two are alike. Parents fault in one case isn’t the case in another. Meds, video games, bullying, religion/lack of religion, gun laws/policies, mental health, legal guns, illegal guns, the media…all might play a part in different events, but not one component can be blamed for every event. Even the “shooter” might not be totally to blame in every circumstance. (That’s why we have competency hearings and the insanity defense.) Can we find common ground and make common sense changes?…sure. But in today’s political climate, I doubt it. Hell, I don’t even think we know which problem we want to solve. Do we want to end/limit gun violence or just limit “mass shootings?” Do we want to limit/end the +/- 15,000 gun homicides a year or just the 2-3% of mass shooting deaths? It’s easy to say the sky is falling, but until we find out if it’s mainly acorns or asteroids that is hitting us in the head, we can’t change anything.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Mar 1 at 2018 11:49 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 11:49:53 -0500

Asked myself the same question: do we need to monitor and report everyone with a personality aberration? That is what it might come to. Kinda like Nazi Germany, Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc where everyone reports on everyone no matter how slight the observation may be. There aren't enough cops or resources to respond to and evaluate all the reports which could result from the philosophy of 'report it to someone'. With this latest slaughter, the perp was reported numerous times and there was not a 'system' or process in place to deal with those reports, or if there was one, it did not work.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 1 at 2018 2:37 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 14:37:37 -0500

I think we are finding out the unregulated approach to guns is wrong.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Mar 1 at 2018 3:11 PM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 15:11:37 -0500

Good question. What are the current drivers in society that would propel someone to open fire on the innocent as a means of redress? Are stricter gun laws the answer? Couldn't hurt, but it's not the answer. Remember Columbine? How did a group of children gain access to weapons and ammunition? Sandy Hook, family and friends all seemed to know of the shooters mental illness, and still he was allowed weapons and ammunition. Is it copy-cat syndrome, hey they did it, why not me/us. This recent loon, posted on FB that he wanted to do commit such the act, certainly law enforcement, but were there no others that closer to the individual that could have acted? We've had private gun ownership in the U.S. for over two century's, but it's only recently that these acts are taking place. I've got no answer.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2018 5:46 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 17:46:48 -0500

The shooter is 100% responsible. Whether he is legally considered competent and legally responsible is one thing, but he is 100% morally responsible.

Do we need a police state, god no. There will always be a few people on the edges of the bell curve, but that idea goes so contrary to everything in the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers, etc.

Do people choose to look the other way, or just not know their neighbors? Absolutely. I think that right there is a huge urban/rural divide. If you look at the FBI crime statistics, the safest thing you can do is more to a town of 25,000 people or less. There is basically statistically zero violent crime. Why? I think there is something to be said for the small town stereotype of being in your neighbor's business and also looking out for your neighbors.

What action is needed? We, society and especially the media, have created a self-fulfilling prophecy. We give these shooters all kinds of attention for their crimes, and they all have mental / emotional issues where they'd rather have negative attention that no attention at all. It's become the go-to thing for violent white teenage males. The MI officer in me says hardening of targets is an easy first step. You can't catch 100% of the people prior to the crime, this isn't Minority Report, so you make it harder to succeed. Fenced grounds, fewer access points, vehicle barricades, metal detectors. If we prevent enough incidents, it won't be a go-to thing and it will hopefully recede into history.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Mar 2 at 2018 3:51 AM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Fri, 02 Mar 2018 03:51:28 -0500

I have spent my whole life since I was seventeen years old in the military and law enforcement and I have lost count of the number of times I sworn an Oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic I like to thank you because it is because of
all idiots that I have had to deal with I have two very nice pensions for my Golden Years What no one realizes is that . In 1968 a law called the Omnibus Safe Streets and Crime Control Act of 1968 also known as The Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618 purpose “Sec. 101. andin 1969 the United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York sitting in Manhattan, New York County held that the law was unconstitutional because it was self- incriminatory for convicted felons because the American Civil Liberties Union appealed it. THAT DECISION HAS NEVER BEEN APPEALED AND ONLY STATE AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS MAY ARREST UNDER STATE LAW! SURPRISE!!!!!

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Mar 2 at 2018 4:01 AM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Fri, 02 Mar 2018 04:01:48 -0500

I have spent my whole life since I was seventeen years old in the military and law enforcement and I have lost count of the number of times I have been shot at and missed and shot at and hit. Down here we have so many retired law enforcement officers and retired military veterans that you could get them to do the protection for the kids for free! THE WIVES WOULD BE SAYING PLEASE GET HIM OUT OF THE HOUSE HE IS DRIVING ME STARK RAVING MAD!!!!!

Response by PO1 Don Mac Intyre made Mar 3 at 2018 9:07 AM

PO1 Don Mac Intyre — Sat, 03 Mar 2018 09:07:58 -0500

By "society", if you mean law enforcement then I agree with you, law enforcement failed on a massive scale and 17 people paid the ultimate price for their mistakes. If by "society" you mean the general population of the United States I disagree that we as a people failed.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 3 at 2018 1:44 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Sat, 03 Mar 2018 13:44:13 -0500

Nothing will be done and the pile of dead children will get larger. Everyone has an excuse why they can't go potty without an AR-15. As far as I am concerned I will be voting against all incumbents

Response by SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez made Mar 5 at 2018 10:05 AM

SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez — Mon, 05 Mar 2018 10:05:46 -0500

CSM,
I feel no pitty for this guy at all. But there signs that he was not right in the head, and that's what we, our society need to become educated and report these things. And didn't a neighbor recorded him acting weird in his backyard or something like that? What was the outcome of that? Jesus Christ! What else is it going to take for this country to wake the hell up?

Response by Sgt Marbury Keys made Mar 5 at 2018 11:15 AM

Sgt Marbury Keys — Mon, 05 Mar 2018 11:15:35 -0500

I just don't know.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Mar 6 at 2018 8:50 PM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 20:50:57 -0500

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/19/fbi-under-siege-top-brass-agents-slammed-as-bureau-fights-to-overcome-scandals-and-blunders.html
The leadership at the FBI should explain how the ball was dropped, who dropped it and who ordered it dropped.
I hope Sessions has the balls to find the individuals that knew Cruz was going to go postal and allowed it.
Who benefits from that act. What kind of globalist wanted it to happen.
It was the same dam thing with 9-11. They learned to fly, but not land? WTF?
Over

FBI under siege: Top brass, agents slammed as bureau fights to overcome scandals and blunders

From the executive offices of the J. Edgar Hoover building to its rank-and-file working in the field, the Federal Bureau of Investigation is entering yet another week scrambling to figure out a way to navigate itself out of a series of scandals and blunders that is increasingly jeopardizing the agency’s reputation in the minds of the public.

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Mar 11 at 2018 7:33 PM

MSgt Allen Chandler — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 19:33:19 -0400

This question really concerns me I think up with the answer for myself and that is all rights have some limitations freedom of speech can’t your fire you theater freedom to travel can’t break into somebody’s house freedom Of ownship You must pay for it.
The second amendment talks about two things I will alarm militia and the right to bear arms. State Armory’s musket all their weapons to the national military machine guns I’m not available to every day people.
I don’t think there are many who disagree with anything I’ve said to this point now comes the argument/discussion is it reasonable to call for a background check of any kind I think so but I respect others who did not. Is it reasonable call for 10 day waiting period. I think so but I respect those who do not agree with me. I think it’s reasonable to say people who did not have a special need above and beyond self-defense and hunting should not have sent me automatic weapons such as the A.R. 15 but I respect those who do not agree with me.
No I expect to get a lot of responses calling me an idiot or some other negative word without giving any argument to why they disagree with me .
If we can have a discussion about what a legitimate restriction on the Second Amendment then we can move forward and find a solution to this. If you think I’m wrong please explain to me why do not drop this to the level of name calling are slippery slope the question is what is a reasonable solution .
Is it reasonable to say that a person in a mental hospital has a constitutional right to own a gun some people have told me it is I think 99% of us don’t. is reasonable for a person in prison to own a gun some people of told me it’s constitutionally required. I think 99% of us don’t. Is it reasonable to loud person is civilian with no training to order a bazooka are a predator drone just because he wants to some people of told me the Constitution requires us to let them do that I think that most of us don’t believe that’s what the Second Amendment meant.
The original question was who are just down I think the answer is we let ourselves down by letting the extremist hijacked the conversation. The only question with discussing is what is reasonable.

Allen chandler USAF (21 years) Retired

Response by SP6 Andy Hurrey made Mar 22 at 2018 11:43 AM

SP6 Andy Hurrey — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 11:43:09 -0400

Simplicity. Except for Sandy Hook, the shooters shot up their own schools. The shooter is responsible for their own actions - what nobody wants to talk about is how was the monster that was/is the shooter created. They weren't created by have access to the objects that they used as tools to inflict harm, they were created by their fellow students.
Beware the monsters you create ... they always come home.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Mar 22 at 2018 5:10 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:10:53 -0400

We are all responsible. We need to restore the basic "Respect for Life" It is sadly missing in our society when young men kill each other over a pair of Nike Athletic Shoes? Is a human life some how worth less that a $100 pair of shoes?

How about video games, and the movies we see with the violence shown and promoted in them? The more graphic in nature the better. We have taken someone briefly grabbing their side and sliding to the floor when they were shot, to full shotgun blasts to the body and the resulting blood and brain spray on the wall behind the victim.

The kids today aren't grossed out by a body disintegrating behind the shot they just took they are not only expecting it but are disappointed when it doesn't happen.

The Army was just starting to use graphic video games for clearing buildings and it was designed to sharpen reaction times but also to eliminate the respect for life that will stop an individual from pulling the trigger.

Sometimes in effect signing his own death warrant in the process.

Dad's in society need to step up and provide the foundation for a strong family. The mothers in America are doing the best that they can but it takes two to hold a family together.

We need to take an interest in our kids and their education. Stop bullying before it gets bad enough to borrow dads shotgun or rifle and do something about it or taking their own life.

Shall I go on? I think you get the picture now do something about it.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 8:28 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 20:28:50 -0400

There are many arguments on fault but it just comes down to there are a lot of people that don't see everything the same way whether it be mental illness or being bullied or just plain psychotic. No matter what, if someone wants to kill people, they can find a lot of ways to do it. Yes guns are easier than building a bomb but people will find a way. Maybe we should start protecting the schools with electronic doors and metal detectors. Instead of trying to control people, control what comes in our schools. Maybe instead of giving Wal-Mart family 11 billion in tax cuts, give them 10 and pay for security for the next 10 yrs. I know a lot of retired soldiers that look for part time work. Just some ideas

Response by PO1 Steven Siepp made Mar 24 at 2018 4:12 PM

PO1 Steven Siepp — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 16:12:17 -0400

I have to think it is how kids are raised these days. Instead of disciplining kids (ie spanking, grounding,) it's easier to prescribe kids into submission. I find it hard to believe that every kid has A.D.D. Parents want to be their children's friend. If you blame the so called Disease and not the action the child never learns of consequences. Some people will say it's different times now, things were different. B.S.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Mar 26 at 2018 2:12 AM

PO3 John Wagner — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 02:12:28 -0400

Too many folks worried about stepping on each other’s toes in a departmental sense.
Yet how did this massive explosion build up.... and how many more are out there waiting to happen.
Liberal lawmakers pass so many restrictions designed to protect individual liberties yet we are now living the consequences of their actions.
The very same people who cry gun control at the drop of a hammer are the very ones who put this kids bizarre behavior in an “off limits” zone.
In more rural America this would never have happened. Why? Because years and years before this kid would have come to folks attention and been brought into the fold one way or another.
This murderer would never have existed. He might well have become a healthy and happy adult.
We all did this. The blood is on our hands. When lawmakers became grandstanding actors spending more of their time pandering for votes than doing their jobs we failed.
How to turn it around? It will be a task as complex and painstaking as reconstructing the skeleton of an enormous dinosaur from tiny slivers of bone.
We aren’t up to it. Moral backbone has disintegrated or become scoffed at as archaic.
No wonder they want gun control. When people abdicate their moral responsibilities to community and children then everything must be controlled.
We let a handful of terrorist win the war in 2001 using a few pieces of our infrastructure to lay us low.
The weapons we need are moral fortitude and responsibility. We gave those up for electronic babysitters. Yes that’s one of my granddaughters. Two years old. Baby bottle in one hand and an iPad in the other. I cuss my kids every time. The older one is a little more reachable...... maybe?.

Response by 1SG Michael Farrell made Mar 27 at 2018 1:34 AM

1SG Michael Farrell — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 01:34:18 -0400

Trying to slice and dice society is a complex and dangerous thing -- think of the Cambridge Analytics model of determining which category of person someone based on Facebook entries and then using that for marketing the equivalent of direct mail. I think The Rolling Stones have it right in Sympathy for the Devil -- "Shouted out who killed the Kennedys, when after all it was you and me..." We have become a fractured society where we accept a certain level of violence and don't even see it. If nothing else, we need a do-over on awareness and the idea of the civic American society and what that is supposed to represent. However the fracture of our society by partisan political beliefs and misinformation is probably a root cause of the paralysis of our institutions to respond, mitigate and fix what needs attention. That, and if you're of a belief system that admits the concept, original sin. However, blaming original sin for poverty or social inequity or meaningless violence or any other issue is laziness. We have the opportunity in the United States to be better through who and what we are. We are a country based on ideals and an idea, not on race or ethnicity or religion. Lincoln said it in the Gettysburg Address, but the war has never ended...this is our most recent battlefield. "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. "

If we don't solve these issues of which gun violence and mental illness are only symptoms, we will have failed as the living to accept the challenges of a new birth of freedom, and government of, by and for the people will die a squalid death.

Johnny Cash wrote a song about 60 years ago that sees it all. The Big Battle. Check it out.
https://youtu.be/_MTzTmpKo4g
And, yes, I think those of us privileged to have worn our uniforms still have that duty to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and our own corners of the American experiment.

The Big Battle (Mono Version)

Provided to YouTube by Sony Music Entertainment The Big Battle (Mono Version) · Johnny Cash / 強尼凱許 Ring Of Fire: The Best Of Johnny Cash Originally release...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 2:13 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 02:13:05 -0400

CSM,

In descending order:
1) The gunman. Period.
2) The armed security officer on site who did nothing to intervene. (I don't care about any arguments about policies, procedures, blah.. blah... blah...) He had a weapon and could have stepped in. He didn't. End of discussion.
3) The host of people well informed about this kid's issues, ranging from the police who responded to numerous domestic issues at his home, to the school and other mental health professionals who received reports as to his mental issues, and others who did nothing more than was required of them to raise a red flag.

Outside of that?

No one and nothing else is responsible for what occurred at that school.

In terms of gun legislation and the current spate of bellyaching taking place? Mass punishment is neither the correct nor the logical response to this situation. There are such an overwhelmingly large number of privately registered firearms, that if law-abiding citizens owning them was as bad as the far left attempts to make it seem? You'd know it. There wouldn't be this intersectional quibbling over a percentage issue between one chart and another. There'd be mass death in the streets. Mass shootings wouldn't make up a paltry sum of the graph, it'd be "the graph." I'm a political centrist, meaning I'm not fond of extremes on either side of the aisle. But we're treading closer and closer to violating and/or doing away with the rights afforded to our citizens under the 2nd Amendment.

When you see these people on the news, on social media, etc whining about assault weapons (which aren't even a "thing"), remember that the reason they're going after AR-15s first is because this is all a steady build-up to eventually coming after handguns. It's the only logical reason they'd be going after a weapon which itself is used in a paltry percentage of gun-related crimes. I know, I know, there will be disagreements. Got it. But the good thing about facts, in this situation - is that they don't care about your feelings. The graphic below shows the percentage of gun-related crimes by weapon type used. Now, I ask... if the aim of these rallies and marches, and encroachments on our 2nd Amendment rights are all because "we want to save people from gun violence..." then why is it we're going after AR-15s?

You see, that didn't make sense to me. In CI, things have to fall into a particular order to start to paint a picture of the reality of a situation. So, like most of you I sat here and I read a bit and watched a bit and didn't really get too deep in debates over this subject. I tend to avoid debating this topic as I see no reason to have a discussion with someone about a constitutional right, nor do I take most of the major leftist arguments seriously enough to engage in meaningful discussion over (as Dawkins says about certain groups: "It would lend credibility that they are undeserving of.")

But hey. Whatever. I figured - yeah - kind of saw the AR-15 thing coming, but we wouldn't push the insane notion of handgun bans as well, would we?

But then I found this:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5087/text

I'm going to say this right now, in a public forum, without regard for differing opinions on the matter.

We are not going to turn our handguns over to anyone. We are not going to turn our AR-15s over to anyone. We are not going to allow any element of this country to remove, edit, or mitigate the rights afforded in the 2nd Amendment. Any attempt to do so will constitute a direct violation of the US constitution and at that time, any political leader or organization who publicly pushes or supports this will reveal themselves to be enemies of the state.

Just a moment...

Response by SPC Russell T. Andrews made Apr 1 at 2018 6:27 PM

SPC Russell T. Andrews — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 18:27:37 -0400

The left removed God from everything they could using our own Constitution to allow evil from the devil to step in...Before that things were not quiet as evil as they are now days...

Response by SPC Russell T. Andrews made Apr 1 at 2018 6:29 PM

SPC Russell T. Andrews — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 18:29:56 -0400

The removal of God from society welcomed evil in....

Response by Gbonkers666 . made Apr 2 at 2018 7:31 PM

Gbonkers666 . — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 19:31:28 -0400

When cop says he wants to talk to you...don't run.

Response by CPT Jim Kotva made Apr 4 at 2018 8:02 AM

CPT Jim Kotva — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 08:02:08 -0400

CSM I understand your concern I also feel the same way what on Gods earth is going on here? For one Morgan Freeman said it best the internet is the greatest and worst invention ever. You can look up directions where to go or a great recipe for a cake. There are also people that are mentally ill that read about these shootings on the internet and think I can do better than that. You write about citizens reporting these behaviors. The Aurora CO shooter had a Ph.D. in Neurosciences' he was seeing a psychiatrist she became so scared of him she stopped seeing him. She called the hospital security explained who she was dealing with and to have him not come in the building her call fell on deaf ears. She called the Aurora police department that fell on deaf ears she emailed the police department never received a reply. We all know what he did in the movie theatre. The prosecuting attorney found out he was seeing her he went to go after her she showed the phone calls and emails she sent out months in advance the chief of police made a statement the police force is over worked and we missed it just a CYA in my mind. When Gabriel Gifford was shot Jared's parents had him deemed in court a threat to himself and others. He still bought all of his weapons at a local gun store he was checked for previous felonies not if he was deemed mentally unfit. We need more people to chase down these calls and to show what actually happens when you get caught doing this. I am now done ranting. We also need better laws on people with mental illness that they cannot buy a weapon it will not stop everything but it should slow it down

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Apr 4 at 2018 9:35 AM

CMSgt Mark Schubert — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 09:35:15 -0400

Parents - pretty simple to me!

Response by SSgt Bruce Probert made Apr 8 at 2018 6:44 PM

SSgt Bruce Probert — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 18:44:03 -0400

You might want to start with Emma Gonzalez's own words "Since he was in middle school, it was no surprise to anyone who knew him to hear that he was the shooter. Those talking about how we should have not ostracized him, you didn't know this kid. OK, we did." It's vicious spoiled brats like these that terrorize the shy introverts into suicide or worse. I've listened to David Hogg talk about their children I'm pretty sure that he isn't a father much less a parent living up to those kind of responsibilities. What I've heard from him is that as a Life NRA member I have blood dripping from my hands. The facts are a little different We know that he spent his time during the shooting making videos of scared kids all the while cowering in a closet. Now this little fascist is dropping the F bomb on everyone that supports the 2nd Amendment concluding his epithet laden rants with his modified Hitler salute. In the mean time no one has been fired at the FBI, 3 of the 4 deputies are still working at least Scott Peterson had the grace to retire after failing in his duty to protect the children under his care. No school administrator, no child services no local law enforcement has been fired for failing to take the appropriate action. Last but certainly not least Sheriff Israel still has a job being in charge of as complete a failure as this school shooting and still having a job is beyond belief. It is time to make sure that people are held accountable for their actions or failures to act. While the Great Mills shooting was originally touted as how a good guy with a gun saves lives. The reality was different as now we know that chances are the shooting was over as the gunman took his own life. It dosen't however diminish the response by the officer on site and we can ask reasonably how many lives would have been saved if the the first officer on site at Lakeland had engaged the shooter. The security arrangements at these schools are a joke and in this instance there was no impediment to this shooter gaining access to the school and pulling a fire alarm. Real security is only as good as the response to the threat posed. A physical barrier can be breached in a number of ways so the response needs to be able to react with overwhelming force if necessary. Too many times it's a principle or teacher facing a gun with no weapon and that is as we've seen a recipe for disaster.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Apr 9 at 2018 1:09 PM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 13:09:03 -0400

This is not an easy question to answer. The firearms used in this incident were purchased legally. However, the NRA has tried to intervene when Congress has tried to propose Comprehensive gun reform. THAT has happened in the past, since Colombine, and maybe even before that. The NRA has compromised several politicians in addition to being compromised themselves. They spread the narrative that any comprehensive gun reform is an attack on the 2nd Amendment. The NRA has to be removed from the political equation.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Apr 12 at 2018 6:01 PM

PO2 John Driskill — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 18:01:09 -0400

Law enforcement failed to take action before and during the shootings. Punk teenagers can point the finger of blame at adults to be the lickspittles of liberal anti gun members of Congress but the blame lies with them for bullying the shooter while he was a student in that school. He got pay back and we have to suffer with David Hogg’s 15 minutes of fame.

Response by SPC Tony Means made Apr 16 at 2018 12:28 AM

SPC Tony Means — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 00:28:15 -0400

I'm Reminder of something I was told in leadership school you can delagate a job but not the responsibility. The responsibility ultimately lies with the individual. Now if you're talking about the root of the problem I have a few words for you. Latchkey, two income household, absentee parents, etc....get the idea?!?

Response by CPL Richard Flagg made Apr 17 at 2018 1:03 PM

CPL Richard Flagg — Tue, 17 Apr 2018 13:03:20 -0400

Once again the Media outlets from Hollywood create there violent programming in television, movies, and in video game entertainment which has desensitized many toward violence overall; then whenever a tragedy such as any mass shooting occurs the News Media and our Hollywood liberal elite cry for social change. Sure things need to be addressed; however the Media as a whole needs to accept responsibility for its helping to create such a violence desensitized society.

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Apr 19 at 2018 9:54 PM

SSG Jeremy Sharp — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 21:54:21 -0400

With regard to the Parkland shooting, there is much blame to go around. If you are to take any stock in the media and the press conferences held immediately surrounding the incident, it would appear that the SRO, school guidance counselor and others had expressed concerns with little (no) follow-up conducted. It also appears that both the Sheriff's Office and the FBI had numerous opportunities to intervene and didn't. Ultimately the gunman is responsibile but if one of these other entities had conducted preliminary inquiries and followed up with appropriate referrals, the incident may never had occurred.

Response by Daniel McEleney made Apr 22 at 2018 10:04 PM

Daniel McEleney — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 22:04:50 -0400

The shooter, But the publicity given after the facts tends to increase the number of shootings , Let people know what happened (especial in the area where it happen, but lets stop making the shooter the main focus of the story

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2018 10:49 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:49:48 -0400

With respect, the initial question is poorly asked. Society is not ultimately to blame because an animal wearing a human form took another life.

Mental health, on the other hand, is a responsibility of society, but it's easy for politicians to ignore this. When you look at the mentally ill, you see people who have no pull with politicians, which means money which should be spent to help them is used on things which are of less help to society, but more help to the politician's reelection chances. Thus we have people who should be under a doctor's care who are not.

There is also a component of society which seeks to absolve the shooter of responsibility for the crime. They prefer the gun to be at fault, as if having a gun forced someone to be a murderer. Those who follow this logic are themselves partially responsible for such crimes. Without their cover, the guilty could be assigned blame properly, punished appropriately, and an example set for society.

I think there are also too many laws. For example, if I drive without insurance, I can be charged even if I haven't caused an accident. But an illegal alien driving without insurance is not charged. The more laws we have which are not respected, the more all laws are not respected.

The Roman historian Tacitus said, "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the society." If we expect laws to be obeyed, we need to either enforce them or remove those we don't intend to enforce.

Response by MAJ John Douglas made Apr 24 at 2018 2:06 PM

MAJ John Douglas — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 14:06:54 -0400

The person who pulled the trigger is responsible. We don't allow mass punishment anywhere else, why here?

Response by MSgt Randy Price made May 4 at 2018 10:24 AM

MSgt Randy Price — Fri, 04 May 2018 10:24:13 -0400

A lack of being held responsible for their actions is the biggest contributor to these events. The shooters are the victims of bullying and feel the only way to get respect is to fight back. The bully’s on the other hand say what we did is OK. And, we as a society don’t hold them accountable

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2018 6:26 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 May 2018 18:26:31 -0400

What part of society? 1/330,000,000 plus a lackluster police officer not intervening and who knows with the failed to take action on reports. So maybe a handful or a dozen. Guns don't load themselves, call uber, walk in, and shoot people

Response by SGT George Duncan made May 7 at 2018 1:01 PM

SGT George Duncan — Mon, 07 May 2018 13:01:29 -0400

their mommy

Response by CSM Patrick Durr made May 11 at 2018 1:29 AM

CSM Patrick Durr — Fri, 11 May 2018 01:29:26 -0400

Only the individual that committed the crime

Response by SGT Daniel Pieratti made May 13 at 2018 10:48 PM

SGT Daniel Pieratti — Sun, 13 May 2018 22:48:51 -0400

I agree with everyone's opinion below, the shooter is at fault, but ultimately the welfare, well being and metal status lies within his upbringing and the guiding hands of the parental figures in his life. One of the first lessons I learned as a child was personal accountability. I believe, as humans, we have the innate ability to determine right from wrong but that basic morality is affected by the way we are raised, what we are exposed to and experiences we have throughout life. The government, church or school system are not responsible for raising heathly children. Parents need to be accountable for the actions of children and therefore the failings of the shooter lie within his childhood.

Response by CPL Glynnda White made May 14 at 2018 10:32 AM

CPL Glynnda White — Mon, 14 May 2018 10:32:07 -0400

Our problem is not that we have "so many" shootings is that every damned thing that happens is nationalized and sensationalized by those who wish to take our ability to defend ourselves....namely the left. Who failed us? The same left leaning government that wishes to take away our arms. They set up "gun free" zones across the nation and then use those incidents when defenseless people are killed. Just like fast and furious they create and then use the predictable outcomes (mass shootings) to try and convince people that we need gun control.....time to do several things.....1. outlaw socialism (which by it's very mission is subversive to the Constitution) in the United States and remove those who are currently documented members out of the nation's borders and strip them of their citizenship-beginning with Congress and any who work in our government, 2. Remove George Soros who is a seditionist by admission and has paid multiple millions into the weakening and destruction of our nation, strip him of his wealth and turn him out of the nation, 3. remove any lawmakers from office who believe our 2nd amendment rights should be restricted or removed, don't ask them, check their voting records, 4. privatize the school system, shut down the Dept of Education and disperse the money back to the states.....and put some serious security into schools, 5. Begin the process of refamiliarizing American citizens with guns and remove the maniacal fear of guns that the socialists on the left have spent the last 60 years instilling into them from the age of toddlers.....

Response by GySgt Moses Lozano made May 20 at 2018 1:57 PM

GySgt Moses Lozano — Sun, 20 May 2018 13:57:56 -0400

No one person or segment of society. The real culprit is school access control. l

Response by Col Gladys Young made May 22 at 2018 11:25 AM

Col Gladys Young — Tue, 22 May 2018 11:25:36 -0400

There are two issues here. The first is the glorification of the shooter. He/she becomes famous and those who treated him/her badly are vilified. Ultimate vengeance fantasy. This last one admitted he selected who to spare to "tell my story". The other is the number of unstable persons who are stirred up by the vicious rhetoric all over the society. People disagree and the answer is to threaten them with death? It makes that fantasy socially acceptable in the mind of an unstable adolescent. I suspect these children would have committed suicide or attempted it in previous generations to punish the world for their unhappiness.

Response by Cpl Sean Farquharson made Jun 1 at 2018 8:29 AM

Cpl Sean Farquharson — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 08:29:00 -0400

I read an interesting book, titled "Lost Boys" by Dr. James Garbarino. He wrote this book in 1999, after researching and interviewing boys who committed lethal violence, from school shooters to young men who ran with gangs. all of them had a similar view on "the adults can't keep us safe". Furthermore, as for the bullying claims: it isn't simple bullying. That can be overcome. its when the adults- the arbiters in child society- join in or are unavailable to accept/support the child that you really entrench the idea that violence is the only way. Add to this a culture that values celebrity, at any cost and a "if it bleeds, it leads" journalism. also, our education system uses techniques of crowd control prisons use (Selective enforcement of regulation, etc). who do you think is going to be enforced on? it isn't the most popular.

In short: its how we raise our children (especially our boys), the education system and the media.

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Jun 3 at 2018 8:44 AM

SGM Harvey Boone — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 08:44:03 -0400

The parents and quack doctors they had these thugs and they refuse to take responsibility and raise them they let a dam TV, cell phone, or a game raise them most never had any interest in the thugs or what they were doing and they kept them drugged most of their lives with some sort of drug and you can't expect anything more form them.

Response by PO2 Mario Lofaro made Jun 3 at 2018 6:36 PM

PO2 Mario Lofaro — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 18:36:43 -0400

We failed ourselves... We allowed a rogue and out of control government to infringe upon our basic rights. These rights are also responsibilities. The First Amendment for example, has been misquoted and those misquoted lies have given way to laws that force the good and decent God fearing American to leave God out of our daily lives. The founding fathers knew that a God-less society deserves neither freedom or liberty or rights. Our responsibility is to our children who depend upon us to properly raise them in a JUDEO-CHRISTIAN Country. A country that doesn't bow down to every whim. A county where not everyone goes home with a trophy and only the winners do...
A country that understands that just because we are created equally does not mean we all get the same "piece of the pie" if we don't work for it. We failed ourselves because we have allowed leftist (commie, pinko, degenerates) to dictate policy which is opposite of what the One True God has shown us to be good and right and prosperous. What part of society is ultimately responsible for the shooting at that school or for any eleged shooting. The part that says weapons are bad, the part that has allowed our elected officials tell us what we can and can't do about being armed everywhere... The part of society that believes problems are better solved through big pharmaceutical companies. The part of society who sees themselves in the mirror and allows any tolerance for what is wrong. In short, all of us who just sit back and let things happen without applying the right solutions.
Such as those given us by the first two Constitutional Amendments...

Response by CPT Wes Marsh made Jun 8 at 2018 12:12 PM

CPT Wes Marsh — Fri, 08 Jun 2018 12:12:17 -0400

What part of society - simple yet often over-used perhaps: The parents. The ones responsible for raising the child into a functioning member of society. Just like the Drill Sergeant is responsible for turning the recruit into a functioning soldier in the Army.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2018 11:48 PM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 23:48:11 -0400

It's the parents that raise the new generation snow flakes.

Response by COL William Oseles made Jun 14 at 2018 2:14 AM

COL William Oseles — Thu, 14 Jun 2018 02:14:06 -0400

IMO most of the responsibility falls on the school district's lax to non-existent reporting of criminal behavior to local law enforcement, local law enforcement not arresting students for criminal behavior all for sake of additional funding for 'improving' their crime statistics.
Then there is the mental health contractors that decided not to commit the shooter for involuntary assessment and evaluation when the school finally begged them to.
And some of the students all but admitted they ostracized him and picked on the shooter.
And if law enforcement visits a house 30+ times, and the individual was constantly a problem with fighting and threatening people at the school the school and law enforcement fell down on the job. Hell, even the FBI had a file on him.
And then the Sheriff's office absolutely blew the response

Response by Capt Seavy Barefoot made Jun 14 at 2018 8:55 PM

Capt Seavy Barefoot — Thu, 14 Jun 2018 20:55:24 -0400

Our ability to bring swift justice to these killers does not exist. These people are not afraid of the consequences for their actions .Parents take away the cell phones, video games, and give them chores. Start early in life, expect results and demand compliance, maybe then we will begin to see change in our schools. Oh and don't even get me started on the state of morality and lack of father figures in our homes.

Response by Col Brian Hadley Reed made Jun 16 at 2018 4:00 PM

Col Brian Hadley Reed — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 16:00:09 -0400

What "part of our society"? That "part" that does the SHOOTING...

Response by Sgt Roy Hale made Jun 17 at 2018 11:53 PM

Sgt Roy Hale — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 23:53:29 -0400

I think that society wants to blame an inanimate object. Disarming the masses leaves the wolves to slaughter the sheep. Mental health is a huge reason these events are taking place . Those high school students admitted and defended the fact that they had bullied the shooter in Florida. From the school shootings in Columbine, the shooters have been bullied outcasts that finally have had enough. Multiple epic failures on behalf of Law Enforcement, Mental Health Services, and other students as it is easier not to get involved, than to stand up for someone who is being bullied and tormented. The other problem is Social media as there are those who want their 15 minutes of fame, and want to out do the previous deadly rampage. Gun Control will not end multiple victims attacks, we all as Veterans know that a firearm is not the only thing that can create multiple deaths incidents. And sadly it is just going to be a way of life. Those who want to kill, will kill with whatever means available. I by no means whatsoever condone these horrific acts. But I do believe everything these kids are exposed to is violence, in television, games, the internet, and no one takes any responsibility for their actions. Let’s be honest, the color of the coat of a Kardashian’s kid, makes more news than the daily slaughter of kids in say Chicago. No responsibility

Response by CPT Bobby Fields made Jun 19 at 2018 4:42 PM

CPT Bobby Fields — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:42:42 -0400

Historically, it isn't much easier or harder to legally obtain a firearm now than it was 30, 40, or 50 years ago, yet the United States didn't have mass shootings as frequently as we have them in the past 10-20 years. There are a whole host of things that most likely are contributing to the increase in mass shootings, but the availability of firearms isn't one of them.
I think responsibility at all levels, or lack thereof, is contributing to so many of our problems, not just mass shootings, which is one of the most horrific symptoms of the moral direction our country is headed. The issue of mass shootings also shows our inability to correctly identify the root cause of any given situation, which makes it awfully hard to address the situation at hand.

Response by SGT Patrick Reno made Jun 19 at 2018 5:12 PM

SGT Patrick Reno — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:12:08 -0400

Why should the responsibility fall on society at all. The only person responsible for that shooting is the shooter himself. That is the biggest problem with our society today, is that no one takes responsibility for there own actions. It always has to be some one's fault but there's. .

Response by PO1 Jeffrey Pennala made Jun 22 at 2018 8:51 AM

PO1 Jeffrey Pennala — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:51:55 -0400

As a society we have become morally unanchored and are embracing the satanist credo of "do what thou wilt". Of course we are going to have aberrant violent behavior unleash its darkness upon us. The cries for "gun control" are not really about guns, they are crying for "violence control" but to enable that they would have to embrace moral behavior again, which they are loath to do. We are a hedonistic society now, sexually immoral, dishonest, self centered, without honor. Nations and empires fall when they fall into hedonism, debase their currency and debase their laws. I hope and pray we wake up and turn around before we fall into chaos which is what the lefties, socialist, ANTIFA, the main stream media, and their ilk want, so they can rebuild the nation in their socialist communist image.

Response by PO1 Jeffrey Pennala made Jun 22 at 2018 9:04 AM

PO1 Jeffrey Pennala — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 09:04:50 -0400

In the 20th century every nation that disarmed their citizens went on to kill their citizens in massive numbers. WW2 era Germany 12 million at least, Soviet Union 40 to 60 million, China 40 million, Cambodia at least a million. That can't happen here in the USA I am sure the citizens of those nations thought the same thing. When they take your guns they take your freedom, they have stolen the nation and all the principles we were founded upon. Descent will be met with imprisonment, impoverishment and or death. It is a "heart" problem not a "gun" problem.

Response by MAJ Doc Scheffler made Jun 23 at 2018 8:55 AM

MAJ Doc Scheffler — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 08:55:27 -0400

I don't think ANY part of our society is ultimately responsible for the shooting. As tragic as this was, it really is a rare event. People and children die daily in much larger numbers from car accidents, medical mistakes, you name it. This is much ado about nothing and is pushed as a political stunt to raise money for politicians. Neither party cares about gun rights. The GOP runs on it to raise funds and get elected, but never does anything positive about gun rights. The Dems run on it for the same reasons, but never do the evil things they promise either. The NRA would be broke if there were real gun rights in America. They fund raise on the issue, but then author bills in state legislatures that are bad. I guess if there is any cause and effect, it's the political deep state class on both sides that needs the issues to keep their positions.

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Jul 2 at 2018 9:42 AM

SFC Dennis Yancy — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 09:42:49 -0400

Firearms are not the issue. We have failed out society by allowing media to tell us how to think instead of giving us the news. By allowing schools to not teach children but tell them what to think. By supporting liberals who have forgotten what makes us great. By not doing what is right for our country.

Response by MSG Mark Szyman made Jul 8 at 2018 9:37 PM

MSG Mark Szyman — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 21:37:21 -0400

There was a.rifle range at my middle school that was actively used by the middle school and high school rifle teams. It was not uncommon for a student to bring a riifle or shotgun to speech class. I'm sure that has all stopped.
The common thread to all these shooting is psychiatric medications and or people know what is going to happen but don't step up and drop a manhole cover on the idiot kid that has no clue as to the permanence of the piss poor decision.

Response by 1SG Charles Simpson made Jul 22 at 2018 11:40 AM

1SG Charles Simpson — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 11:40:32 -0400

We lost our society when we started listening to godless people outside our family for guidance. We lost our society when we began that someone owed us something for nothing. We lost our society when we let government become parents and parents become friends with no responsibilities. We lost our society when we told our men to stop being men. The final blow of destruction came when we became complacent in the wake of the self destruction that we wreaked upon ourselves. It is probably too late to reverse our course from this point forward, I sacrificed 28 years of my life to our armed forces doing my part to preserve our republic and our way of life and now it appears to all have been for nothing.

Response by SPC Stuart Haas made Jul 23 at 2018 6:58 PM

SPC Stuart Haas — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:58:58 -0400

Kids need to stop staring at screens all day and get outside ! Virtual reality is not reality ! They need to absorb the sunshine get more vitamin D and unplug ! Nothing wrong with playing outside when your young. Nothing wrong with getting into some scraps with your brothers or friends. I don't believe in this gang mentality of all your friends jumping in and stomping the other guy brain dead ! They need to learn to be men who can support and protect their future families and stop staring at video games and porn !

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Jul 28 at 2018 7:36 PM

PO1 Aaron Baltosser — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 19:36:00 -0400

The part of our society that doesn't value Human life. THe guy involved was socially abused for years before he turned into an active shooter. One of the girls that acted as his abuser for 2 years has been paraded around now as the victim, when the reality was she is seriously responsible for how it turned out. School faculty played a role in his abuse as well piling on when the other student were being incredibly cruel instead of stepping in and intervening. Law enforcement was notified and totally knew about the potential danger...then did nothing. Police on site heard the attack going on...and did nothing. Everyone that helped shaped this event should be held accountable for their accessory role in those deaths. Scapegoating a single individual for it is wholly a fabrication.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Aug 5 at 2018 5:30 PM

LCpl Cody Collins — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 17:30:38 -0400

All parts of society are responsible.
1. The Church stopped leading by example
2. Welfare:
A. It split families apart
B. Made Mother's dependent on the free medical and child care
C. Children are not taught empathy for others.
3.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2018 9:53 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 21:53:35 -0400

Who determines a deranged member of society? Be careful what you wish for. Soldiers can be considered deranged and most times are classified as such. Guns are not the issue. People are!

Response by Pvt Donald Congleton made Sep 10 at 2018 6:32 PM

Pvt Donald Congleton — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 18:32:16 -0400

I'd have to place all the blame on Law Enforcement. They knew he was a "Head Case," several years before that.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 7:03 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 07:03:38 -0400

I feel it ultimately the shooter’s responsibility

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 5 at 2021 2:58 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 14:58:50 -0500

the criminal who did the shooting.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2021 6:21 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 06:21:38 -0500

The part that has no self-discipline and courage to work through adversity instead of giving into their feeling for revenge of whatever they believed wronged them. Make no mistake about it some people are wronged, but that’s no excuse to grab an AR15 and shoot up people. MHO