What policy covers the wearing of a stethoscope in uniform?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 10:12:53 -0400

Does anyone have any regulation or meddac policy on being allowed to or not allowed to wear a stethoscope in uniform? By that I mean you're actively treating patients. Having to listen to lung sounds/heart sounds/abdominal sounds and you throw you stethoscope around your neck after. I'm referring to hospital/clinic settings only.

A problem I've having is being constantly corrected by a NCO for doing it, and example is right after I'm done working up a patient, in which I used my stethoscope, I might throw it around my neck as i walk to brief my provider. That's when it seems like I'm almost chased down for this NCO to remind me that I can't wear it around my neck.

I've asked for the policy. Either army or hospital that states that, or why providers and nurses walk around wearing them without ever being corrected while in uniforms. The answer I get is basically "well they're different, they're providers, you're a medic."

Policy being discrimatory based on MOS is new to me, so I'm trying to find in writing what the guidelines are. Anyone got answers?

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Oct 8 at 2015 10:21 AM

Capt Mark Strobl — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 10:21:14 -0400

If this NCO continues to badger you over toting around your equipment, have them either 1.) cite the directive which would prevent you from continuously keep it on your person, or 2.) Hand the stethoscope to them for safe keeping --and go retrieve it each time you need it. My guess is they'll get bothered by the second option and concede. In a clinic setting, I would expect medical personnel to immediately have the equipment they need at the ready. Shoot, whenever I went to the armory to draw my weapon, I remember the Marines on duty were always carrying their side-arms --it was part of their T/E standard... and I doubt that was ever published in an order/directive. If this NCO can't produce a document outlining when/where you may possess a stethoscope... But similarly, pick your battles.

Response by SFC John Mikelson made Oct 8 at 2015 10:23 AM

SFC John Mikelson — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 10:23:07 -0400

Common practice in the treatment area but the equipment stays in the tent/ building

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 11:07 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 11:07:47 -0400

Of all the things to bother you about, this NCO chose this? Its a piece of equipment that you need for your job. Personally, I would ask that NCO if he has challenged the Nurses and Doctors in uniform that have the stethoscope around their necks. If he has not, then ask why he is trying to correct you about it? Equality across the board if that being around the neck is in error, right? Have him cite his source. Again, it is military medical equipment that you need readily available to properly perform your mission. Is this NCO a Medic as well?

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Oct 8 at 2015 11:41 AM

MAJ Jim Steven — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 11:41:36 -0400

see if you can get another NCO to run some interference - because this is freaking stupid!!

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made Oct 8 at 2015 12:48 PM

SFC Maury Gonzalez — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 12:48:18 -0400

Are they whiny about MP wearing a gun also

Response by SFC David Cook made Oct 8 at 2015 12:53 PM

SFC David Cook — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 12:53:48 -0400

I agree that he should be correcting everyone regardless of rank, but he is technically correct. See AR 670-1 Chap 1-5b.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 8 at 2015 7:38 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 19:38:11 -0400

I have to imagine it's the same regulation that authorizes infantrymen to carry rifles and mechanics to carry wrenches... It's a tool utilized by an MOS, no different than any other. Common sense has to kick in at some point...

Response by PO1 John Miller made Oct 8 at 2015 10:14 PM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 22:14:39 -0400

I just have to ask. Since this NCO seems hellbent on chasing you down every time you're wearing your stethoscope, does he/she ever see patients themselves or are they too busy correcting you?

Response by SGT Quinn Reels made Oct 13 at 2015 1:37 PM

SGT Quinn Reels — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:37:25 -0400

i never had that problem i think your nco is a butt head.while your still in the buiding i don't see a problem with it

Response by SGT Quinn Reels made Oct 13 at 2015 1:39 PM

SGT Quinn Reels — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:39:11 -0400

i never had a problem with this.unless you leaving the building i don't see the problem.Maybe this NCO is just a butt head

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 1:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:45:02 -0400

Sadly this NCO is correct. AR 670-1. However speak with the OiC or NCOIC and see if a policy can be written for the clinic/aid station that will allow it.

Response by SSG Paul Forel made Oct 13 at 2015 2:11 PM

SSG Paul Forel — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:11:51 -0400

Hmmm, we had ways of dealing with this in Vietnam....

I'd go see the 1SG except that could result in additional harassment.

You might try reverse psychology and comply with the regulations. You need to get on this NCO's good side.

People like this usually show up as a pain in other ways, too. Maybe you just need to be patient until someone transfers him.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 3:30 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:30:48 -0400

1. Why does he have to keep correcting you? Fix yourself.
2. He is correct according to 670-1. He should also be correcting all others. He has direct influence on you to make sure you know the correct way to be. He may not have the same influence on others. Just because everyone else is wrong does not mean you should be.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 3:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:37:18 -0400

Already responded

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 13 at 2015 3:58 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:58:36 -0400

That's like telling the infantry not to have weapons unless they are engaging the enemy.

Response by SGT Kenneth Starks made Oct 14 at 2015 5:58 AM

SGT Kenneth Starks — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 05:58:18 -0400

being a medic myself, not having your equiptment is like going into battle without your weapon.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2015 10:32 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:32:37 -0400

My personal opinion? I've always corrected my medics when they try the "cool guy" wearing of the stethoscope in or out of the clinic.

My professional opinion? You'll have a million officers, retirees, or barracks lawyers come to your defense/aid, but at the end of the day you're wrong. Leaders (note that I said leaders, not NCOs) need to be familiar with regulations regarding common Issues, this being one of them. When we start saying things like "common sense, this is stupid, or give this NCO two options", then we're failing as leaders to see the bigger picture as well as bringing discredit to the Corp we call our own. We often talk about how Soldiers are less disciplined than they used to be; it's because leaders from the trenches to the command post choose to interpret regulation, disregard regulation, or don't bother to perform a simple "Google search" to get the information they need.

I've probably worked in the same clinic you're in a few years back. I consistently corrected seniors, peers and subordinates on the stethoscope as well as other common uniform discrepancies. Usually I received a lot of flack from the PAs when correcting them, but I'd be professional and would take the issue higher when needed. I hope you correct yourself and move on.

Response by SGT Victoria Belbusti made Oct 14 at 2015 1:55 PM

SGT Victoria Belbusti — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:55:58 -0400

Yeah it's not supposed to be worn. If they let you guys rock the scrub shirt they have handy pockets for easy access to your stethoscope.

Response by 1SG VonErick Trim made Oct 14 at 2015 4:29 PM

1SG VonErick Trim — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:29:04 -0400

This sounds like something that needs to go to the 1SG. When the NCO says something, ask for a meeting with the PSG. When you talk with him, ask to see the 1SG. You shouldnt let things like this go. Littke shit like this can balloon. When it could have been taken care of.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 18 at 2015 1:23 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:23:56 -0400

General Patton knew it..........

Doctor: I can't wear my helmet and use a stethoscope.

Patton: Well, then cut two holes in your helmet and see that you can. (Patton, 1970).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2015 3:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 15:08:31 -0500

I see the question is whether the stethoscope is considered a "accessory" (see FM 670-1 Chap 1-5b) or is it a piece of equipment or tool. Despite popular belief, the Army does not have a regulation for everything. Some things are left up to the commander's discretion. If it is considered a tool as, say, a pick-axe or a tow-bar, the commander would probably allow a soldier to put it over his/her shoulder when carrying it from point a to point b. Either way, it's a decision that needs to be made above your and your NCOs pay grade. But before it is decided, your NCO is correct.

Response by SGT Kenneth Starks made Nov 20 at 2015 5:55 AM

SGT Kenneth Starks — Fri, 20 Nov 2015 05:55:53 -0500

As a former army medic, I don't understand why this is still a big issue, can a mechanic do is job without his tools? Can a sniper do his job without his weapon? Can a painter do his job without his brush or rollers? "THE ANSWER TO ALL OF THE ABOVE IS NO". So a medic Can't do his job without his stethoscope. He/she need to take Blood pressures, listen to lungs and heart sounds. STOP BEATING THE DEAD HORSE.

Response by Maj John Bell made Apr 27 at 2016 9:15 AM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 09:15:01 -0400

Going to the chow hall or some personal errand, no no. Working around the aid station or performing as a medic in the field no problem.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2016 11:28 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:28:31 -0400

If it is not in the same reg and DA PAM, that we see quoted here constantly, then try to find a policy. They are usually written by organizations that govern special cases like yours. If the NCO can't show you in writing, it doesn't exist. As the enforcer of the standards, that NCO should be prepared to show you in writing, if he/she freels the need to correct you.

Response by LTC Ray B. (Ret) made Aug 3 at 2019 3:09 PM

LTC Ray B. (Ret) — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 15:09:41 -0400

Go ask your 1sg