What process is stupidly complicated or slow because of "that's the way it's always been done" syndrome?

SGT Charles Napierala — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:20:50 -0400

I saw this post on reddit and I know there are a ton of military traditions and leaders that suffer from this syndrome. What situations have you found yourself in based off of the "that's the way it's always been done" mentality?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2017 4:23 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:23:43 -0400

The process of how AAR's are conducted

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Apr 25 at 2017 4:23 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:23:45 -0400

The way the Army develops and institutes new training into the TRADOC POI's, takes about three years to institute a change on average. The only exception I've seen is in the IED defeat arena where the system is much more agile for some reason.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 25 at 2017 4:26 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:26:48 -0400

Household goods shipment. I was fairly close to this business at the headquarters level. The process has been computerized with on-line ordering and tracking to some extent, but it still seemed excessively complex and time consuming. The process to allow movers to be able to bid on Government moves was also complex and time limited. When the availability of shippers was low due to peak demand, the process didn't have a good way to increase capacity (this may have been fixed by now). I'd like to hear some feedback to see if the process has improved in the last 5 years.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Apr 25 at 2017 4:30 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:30:11 -0400

But they keep incompetents from making things worse

Response by SSgt Gary Andrews made Apr 25 at 2017 4:45 PM

SSgt Gary Andrews — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:45:58 -0400

I've been out for too long to know what processes or training fall into that category today. I will offer this though: Sometimes things continue to be done the way they always have been, because they have a long record of success. I would put a lot of the training in that category. Administrative processes may be different.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Apr 25 at 2017 6:07 PM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 18:07:48 -0400

If someone of higher rank than you does it wrong, then you are kinda screwed doing it that way. I was one of those who bucked the system all the time. I did it tactfully most of the time. Not using that sort of approach can bring you all kinds of heat you don't need.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2017 6:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 18:28:57 -0400

Platoon (or company) led PT. It's a complete waste of time, no one gets anything out of it, and it's painful to watch.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2017 2:55 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 02:55:26 -0400

The first thing that comes to mind is the Military Driver's Licensing Process.

I'm licensed to drive an M1 Abrams main battle tank, 3 different variants of MRAPs, the LMTV platform, and a number of other vehicles. Despite this I apparently am still not qualified to drive the CUCV pickup. Really? It's a GM 1 ton pickup.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2017 7:49 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:49:40 -0400

I would guess the army awards system is still terribly slow from the stories Ive read. I think it is terrible that it can take 2-3 years for someone to receive a high level combat award. While I appreciate that there is the need to make sure these awards meet standards, you will never convince me that those awards don't spend most of the time during those years just sitting in someones inbox.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2017 8:40 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 08:40:26 -0400

Just about 3/4 of all things occurring in Korea fall under this category. When I got there, there were essentially two types of people: those who are short and preparing to leave or those who planted roots in Korea and plan to stay forever.
The result is a lot of crap that is hard to unravel. I did a lot of work as a PLT SGT over there to bring back professional soldiering and training, gained the respect of my Korean employees as well as my troops, and then PCS'd back to the states. I found that my replacement went back to the complacent methods and it transformed back to an undisciplined, embarrassment of a platoon.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 8:19 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 08:19:35 -0400

Well we did not always do it but I can't stand SPR. Why do we allow a "Doc" to justify if our Soldiers are deployable or not? As a leader you should be able to make the call on if your Soldier is deployable. This has caused Soldiers to be able to skip on deployments.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 11:26 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:26:29 -0400

PT. I don't understand why it's such an issue to get people to show up for Physical training. It's what you signed up for. You agreed to do it when you put your hand up and joined. If you can't do the things you have agreed to do...then you have lost my trust and respect I had for you. I have to respect your rank..but I don't have to respect you.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 11:44 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:44:17 -0400

Processes and systems are fine with me. What I cannot stand is the last minute things and lack of planning stuff that we do. SOF is one of the places where I have seen this happening the most. Most time leadership will say "Be flexible" as an excuse to cover up for their lack of planning. Sadly this is the Army that we have now a days.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 12:20 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:20:17 -0400

For the life of me I could never understand why we were only required to perform annual requirements in the Air Force. You go a whole year before you have to run another 1.5 miles and do a few push ups and sit ups. Oh, I think we were sitting on a stationary bike when I retired. Yet, no one could figure out why we had people having heart attacks and strokes every year trying to get ready for their annual. If that is not the dumbest thing goin on in all branches of the military, I don't know what could possibly be dumber.
Please someone tell me they are doing something to get Air Force people off their asses.

Response by SGT Ron Egan made Apr 28 at 2017 4:26 PM

SGT Ron Egan — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:26:34 -0400

Battalion Commander wants a 0700 formation of the troops. Company Commander passes on it's 0600 formation. Platoon LT. says 0500 formation, Platoon Sgt says 0400 formation and the Squad leader gets your nasty ass up at 0300.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Apr 28 at 2017 5:00 PM

SSG John Jensen — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:00:04 -0400

while a Bde S-2 NCO found a better way to do the terrain overlays of the maps - instead of black marker cross-hatch that makes it difficult to read the terrain - use different colored highlighters that you can see the terrain thru the color, every body responded with "THAT'S AWESOME, but we can't do it"

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 5:46 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:46:06 -0400

The only thing harder than getting a new idea into the military is getting an old idea out of the the military.

Response by PFC Josiah Schmid made Apr 28 at 2017 8:52 PM

PFC Josiah Schmid — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 20:52:46 -0400

I would have to say work orders can sometimes take long.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 29 at 2017 10:59 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:59:05 -0400

Contracting for anything. Whether it's big or small dollar-wise, the contracting process in very complicated. I've seen it both from the contractor point of view and the contracting officers' representative viewpoint. Contracts for services are difficult to get funded and pushed through the contracting system in both the Air Force and Army. I suspect the Navy is the same.

One of the biggest problems is the number of approvals you need to have at each phase of the contracting process. I won't recount all of the issues I experienced here, but will highlight a few big problems:
-Funding: justification for a services contract can take a year or more. If you do get the funding in your unit's budget, it can still be raided for other priorities. About the only way to prevent this is Congress appropriating money for a specific project. They usually only do this for major acquisition programs like a new aircraft or tank or ship. If you just need a $1-million services contract to support a program, you may only get $800K by the time the money filters down to your level.
-Writing the Statement of Work: Two problems here are Contracting Officers (KOs) who don't understand your business and Contracting Officers' Technical Representatives (COTRs) who don't understand acquisition. The mutual ignorance often places these folks at loggerheads when it comes to writing the statement of work (SOW). A good COTR will educate the KO on their job enough for them to be helpful. A good KO will allow the COTR the maximum flexibility in explaining the work they need the contractor to do within the limits of the contracting regulations. Too often each party doesn't want to take the time to do it right. When this happens, the prospective contractors are stuck trying to bid on a statement of work that is incomplete, poorly written, and doesn't provide the Services the COTR really needs. For example, the KO may require the SOW to contain a strategic-level objectives statement that generally states the reason for the contract and the work to be done. The COTR may provide that statement and then neglect to provide details of the work that supports each element of the high-level statement. The contractors will then have to submit many questions to the KO during the bid and proposal process to attempt to get the statement of work modified into something the contractors can actually bid on.
-Low-cost (minimum) qualified selection: I ran into this one as an Army Civilian. We were forced to accept the lowest cost bidder who was minimally qualified to do the work. The "best value" bidder was usually not the low-cost bidder. Consequently, we awarded contracts to companies who were minimally qualified, i.e., they weren't unqualified, to do the work. Then the COTR and other functional people ended up training the contractor's employees on the work they should have known how to do the day they showed up.

There's much more to be said about contracting, but I'll leave it there because this post is too long already.

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Nov 21 at 2019 1:48 PM

SPC Rick LaBonte — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 13:48:18 -0500

If they’re still doing bayonet training-when was the last bayonet charge, WW2? They were outdated in WW1!

Response by CPT Robert Holden made Nov 21 at 2019 3:53 PM

CPT Robert Holden — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 15:53:18 -0500

One thing is for sure . The military is full of stupid traditions

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2019 11:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 23:14:20 -0500

Medboard. It was decided I am unfit for service due to LODs that go back 10 years. My ETS was november 2018. I got the certified letter declaring me unfit in july of 2018.that tells me they knew exactly what my medical condition is. The same as it has been the past 6 years since returning from Afg. Now 2 extensions later , still waiting for release. Medboards need some change. 2 years to decide what gas already been decided

Response by Maj Thor Hauff made Nov 21 at 2019 11:39 PM

Maj Thor Hauff — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 23:39:05 -0500

How about making changing how your rebuttal of any non-judicial punishment below Article 15 is sent to the commander who gave you the punishment. What commander would look at your rebuttal and think “wow after reading this. I now know I am wrong and I should take away the write up?”