What proof would you need to support your cause on a soldier malingering ?

2019-06-14T18:13:18-04:00

This soldier keeps going to sick call and getting quarters but it’s at weird times, always complaining of stomach issues. Do I have to catch the soldier In the act or are there any other avenues that would support my case?

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2019 6:53 PM

2019-06-14T18:53:33-04:00

Being sick is not against the UCMJ, but malingering is. Does it impact the mission enough to warrant your time spent on it? If so, proceed but tread lightly. No underhanded sneaky peaky or outright surveillance. You should be documenting it regularly but only facts. If he later is boarded for conduct or health it will be helpful. Partner with NCOIC or PSG and go from there. Get your ducks aligned first.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2019 8:02 PM

2019-06-14T20:02:44-04:00

You can bring your concerns up to your command, the commander has a open line of communication with the Unit PA/ legal team and can bring up any concern regarding a malingering soldier to them. You aren’t a medical professional (PA), and any accusation of malingering to a soldier is threading on thin ice.

Response by SSG Dale London made Jun 14 at 2019 8:43 PM

2019-06-14T20:43:11-04:00

I am going to recommend that you treat this as a genuine rather than a put-on medical situation for two reasons: first, it allows you much more leeway in investigating the situation, and second, if your suspicion is wrong and they really are sick, you still have their trust and goodwill as you try to get them sorted out.
If this soldier is yours, have a good look at the sick call sheets to see if it is the same specific complaint every time or something kind of different each time. The first would make me want to ask, "why isn't the Doctor following up to get to the bottom of this?" The second would make me want to ask, "why are the staff at the TMC allowing this to go on. They're usually pretty sharp at spotting fakers."
If the soldier keeps getting quarters, perhaps you should ask your 1SG to officially enquire of the TMC the health status of this soldier. This is something Top is responsible for and will probably be all you need to do.
If the soldier really is sick, he'll be off to the hospital for evaluation. If not, Top will have his hide. It will just sort of "happen."

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Jun 14 at 2019 9:03 PM

2019-06-14T21:03:25-04:00

You are more likely to get yourself in trouble than solve what you perceive to be a problem.

Response by MSG Frank Kapaun made Jun 14 at 2019 11:00 PM

2019-06-14T23:00:46-04:00

Start Med Board paperwork on him.

Response by MCPO Hilary Kunz made Jun 14 at 2019 11:16 PM

2019-06-14T23:16:34-04:00

What case? You have a sick soldier or one that professes to be sick, you don’t know.
I assume that you are the boss. You don’t start with a hypothesis (soldier malingering), you investigate first, that keeps from clouding your judgement. If there are rumors cut them short, as in, “Knock it off!” Get to know the guy or gal, find out from them if there’s anything you can do to help them. That’s a good way to get them to open up, and get you the answer.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jun 15 at 2019 12:03 AM

2019-06-15T00:03:00-04:00

Still fuzzy on what catching him in the act looks like for stomach issues.

There is nothing to keep you from following up on an ill soldier. Not sure what you'd find. Sitting on the couch watching Maury looks the exact same with or with out stomach maladies. Unless he has Atomic Fireball wings from Buffalo Wild Wings or something. Or you catch him hooking up in his room during quarters....don't worry baby, I told them I had diarrhea....

Response by Maj John Bell made Jun 15 at 2019 5:10 AM

2019-06-15T05:10:27-04:00

I do not know if this would fly anymore.

Most often, if someone was malingering it was to get out of a field event, or force march. I used them as training aids. After consulting with the Battalion surgeon, any Marine that could go to the field without violating medical restrictions, did. Within the limits imposed by the Battalion Surgeon and supervised by the Battalion Medical Chief and Company Corpsmen the "sick, lame, and lazy" were treated as battlefield casualties.

Appropriate to the training event, they were used as simulated casualties who had to be found, retrieved, treated, evacuated, and transported to the Battalion Aid Station (BAS). A CP tent was set up outside the garrison Command Post as the "Battalion Aid Station." During field exercises the "casualties" were either in the field, or in garrison restricted to the CP tent. While in the garrison BAS, they rested and recovered under the loving care of the Battalion Officer of the Day and the Staff Duty, without distractions like TV, radio, etc. etc. No one went to their quarters, for the duration of the field exercise.

It seems that boredom has medicinal restorative properties.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 15 at 2019 7:40 AM

2019-06-15T07:40:13-04:00

Your command needs to speak with the clinic, from there they need to discuss his issues within Hilo’s standards. Example, that many stomach issues warrants many different evaluation, and assessments to determine the root cause. All the while you keep notes and copies of quarters and profiles. After exhausting all venues you put together the paperwork presenting it to your command and JAG. The rest is up to Commands willingness and JAGs guidance. Thank you for your service.

Response by MAJ Christopher Daily made Jun 15 at 2019 9:22 AM

2019-06-15T09:22:06-04:00

I would take it in a different direction. First, it is the commander’s role to work with the medical team regarding the health of their Soldiers. So if you are not the Commander or 1SG I would push this one back to them. Second, if you are the Commander, then I would talk directly to the Doc and address this concern as you can get feedback from the doc regarding a way forward. Third, if this continues with no end and no clear cause, I would ask for a med board or referral to a specialist. Past that you are going to have an almost impossible task of proving malingering. I am speaking as a former Warrior Transition Unit Commander. You could also speak to legal but they will tell you to talk to the care team (doc).

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2019 11:22 PM

2019-06-15T23:22:59-04:00

Short of the Soldier admitting it - it’s a tough nut to crack. Continue to document and see if it’s a pattern that occurs before major training events. Could be legit. As a Commander - I’ve never seen anyone prove malingering.

Response by SPC Andrew Murray made Jun 16 at 2019 12:42 AM

2019-06-16T00:42:08-04:00

Maybe you should just let it go. You don't want the reputation of following a soldier around trying to prove he's guilty of something. It might prejudice any real investigation showing that his leadership was out to get him.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2019 12:24 PM

2019-06-16T12:24:49-04:00

I had this same issue with a soldier very recently. Come to find out she was diagnosed with Crohn's Disease. Tread very, very lightly. Get copies of sick call slips and have your PSG/NCOIC get with the company commander to contact the SMs PA.

Response by SFC Charles Woods made Jun 16 at 2019 2:56 PM

2019-06-16T14:56:58-04:00

My cousin was caught malingering by his PSG and platoon leader.They started making barracks checks of all soldiers who were on quarters or as my cousins case were issued crutches for leg problems.He was caught out at a beer joint dancing when he claimed he could not walk well enough to do his job.Finally got a general discharge under less than honorable conditions.Good riddance.I thought.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 16 at 2019 3:06 PM

2019-06-16T15:06:55-04:00

You have to tread lightly here. I once had a NCOIC try to press me on malingering. The backstory on that was my wisdom teeth. I had heard horror stories about getting them all out at once so I started having them removed one at a time. I was in DC at the time and with join bases the AF dental facility was an easier movement, I later learned they gave quarters for even small things. So over a period of 2 months I had surgeries and 4 sets of 72 hour restrictions to quarters.

As with all other things medical, any concerns need to be addressed with the coc and the medical professional. Only the professional knows if they SM is legit or not and if in doubt, there are other tests they can run. With stomach issues it can be anything from nerves, GERDS, or more serious issues.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Jun 17 at 2019 8:40 AM

2019-06-17T08:40:08-04:00

Once upon a time, a long time ago, I was put in charge of an Airman no one wanted to be in charge of. She was considered lazy, overweight, and constantly would go to sick-call complaining of headaches and fatigue. We all thought that she was the problem, especially since she didn't get along with her previous supervisor. Eventually she complained enough and got a medical discharge for chronic migraine headaches. We all thought this was just weak and pathetic since when she was around she always seemed fine. Well...two years later the real culprit appeared. Degenerative Multiple Sclerosis. She was 25 then. Seems like we were wrong. The bullying her, thinking she was a turd airman, lazy, etc. was all misplaced. She actually was sick. She committed suicide about 6 months after her diagnosis because she didn't want to be a burden on her two children. So maybe you stop and evaluate the situation a little more, be more objective in your judgments. Cause not everyone with frequent trips to sick call is lazy or weak. Some are actually sick.

Response by CPT Mike Sims made Jun 17 at 2019 1:29 PM

2019-06-17T13:29:36-04:00

I would exercise caution here. I had a Soldier once who complained of the same thing. His squad leader wanted to get him for malingering - but I intervened. As a former NCO, I reminded the squad leader that we are not doctors and that I trusted that the Corporal was not a malingerer and that perhaps the Corporal doesn't even know why this was happening to him. Who would put themelves through that much pain or the trouble of being harassed if they truly didn't have a medical issue? I would say be supportive, show some human compassion and realize that your support might save a life - and someday you may find yourself seeking such compassion should you ever face a similar health issue. By the way, the Corporal in my unit had to be transferred to a specialized medical facility in another state and he never returned to us again - it took our base medical team 3 months to discover what was wrong with him, and the constant berating by his squad leader certainly didn't help him. I pray for you both - one, that your Soldier recovers and two, that you grow and mature as a leader to discover that with age comes experience and wisdom to help you become a better effective leader.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2019 11:51 PM

2019-06-18T23:51:51-04:00

The Soldier has to be medically proven to have nothing wrong with them by a couple of Providers. In today's environment with liberal interpretation of what constitutes allowable behavioral health issues, this can be a true leadership challenge.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2019 12:29 AM

2019-06-20T00:29:20-04:00

I got a troop for Mali getting once. He was on a no pt profile. Cool, no problem if he was hurt. I went to the gym and saw him playing basketball. Took some pics and went to his doctor. The soldiers profile got voided for if he could play sports he could pt

Response by SSG Mark Matteson made Jun 21 at 2019 3:55 PM

2019-06-21T15:55:23-04:00

You would think that he would need a command ordered physical evaluation. Without that you must take the Soldier's word that he is either sick or injured in some way.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jun 21 at 2019 4:00 PM

2019-06-21T16:00:25-04:00

Does this behavior coincide with less than desirable duties? That would show a pattern of behavior.
That said, it is always possible that troop has a real medical issue that they need addressed for their own health, but are just stubborn and won’t go to see Doc. If they are impacting your mission they can be helped over to medical, if for no other reason than looking out for their true welfare.

I do agree with some of the previous replies in that I wouldn’t go sneakiuaround trying to catch them in the act of malingering. If they are malingering it will show with no assistance.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 25 at 2019 7:24 AM

2019-06-25T07:24:36-04:00

If you believe the soldier is malingering (using sick call or the medical process to avoid duty), then escalate your concerns to to someone who can have a peer-to-peer discussion with the ability to investigate.

Think about it this way, unless you are a medical professional trained in that specific area can you make an educated opinion as to whether they are sick or just faking? Or is it just a hunch? If it is the former, document and present your EVIDENCE (you would already know what this is) up the CoC. If it is the latter, then present your CONCERNS to someone like your 1SG or PSG/Platoon Commander with the caveat of "something doesn't feel right about Benotz, can you ask Doc to pay special attention to his case?"

As you mentioned, it's at weird times. It could be environmental (exposure). It could be food allergies (something in the chow hall just 2 days a week). It could be anything. The doctors are going to have a better way of tracking and asking the correct questions.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2019 9:26 AM

2019-06-26T09:26:33-04:00

Refer to behavioral health for an evaluation. Impossible to say what’s going on. Maybe malingering. Maybe a genuine psychiatric disorder. Maybe ineffective coping. An eval should help shed. light on it.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2019 1:23 PM

2019-06-26T13:23:00-04:00

If he’s getting quarters then wouldn’t that mean he actually has something wrong with him? The doctor isn’t just handing quarters out left and right. I have stomach issues myself. They arise at random times and there’s nothing I can do to stop them.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jun 26 at 2019 6:20 PM

2019-06-26T18:20:45-04:00

Tread carefully

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2019 3:15 AM

2019-07-05T03:15:53-04:00

I would try to rule out that he doesn't actually have a medical issue. It sounds like Lactose intolerance. Symptoms would include stomach cramps and runny poo. He can keep a diary of what he eats and when it happens; that would help a doctor assess if he has an intolerance or allergy to something. If it's lactose, he can likely just pick up Lactaid/Lactaiz over the counter and then he can keep eating dairy. I just went through something like this with my older son.

Response by MAJ Rabi Singh made Jul 22 at 2019 8:12 PM

2019-07-22T20:12:50-04:00

My buddy in 10th Mountain used to have a BDE Physicians Assistant who used to be hooah, like SF or something. Whenever my buddy suspected or knew that Joe was faking it to go to sick call, he would call Hooah PA. If the Soldier was legitimately sick, Hooah PA would compassionately do his job, but if he sensed or knew that Joe was malingering, he would employ the following technique. "You said your stomach is hurting? How long has it been hurting? Oh no! This could be very dangerous! What I need to do (begins putting rubber gloves on while talking) is do a probe to determine if it is (insert some highly dangerous medical condition) or if it is (insert another highly dangerous medical condition). I need you to drop your pants and underwear, bend over and place your hands on the bench." Magically, Joe was instantaneously healed of whatever malady caused him to come to the Bn Aid Station. Take this war story and do with it what you will.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2019 3:07 PM

2019-08-07T15:07:36-04:00

Best to refer to Command unless you are a provider.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Dec 5 at 2019 7:28 AM

2019-12-05T07:28:02-05:00

Isn't a written ledger still kept officially somewhere when someone goes on sick call so their time can be accounted for? I thought at least BN Sick call maintained such a ledger. If so, just get a copy of the ledger and start documenting. I think you only need to tell one person in the BN Aid station to use that approach.

Response by MAJ Mary Brownlee made Jan 12 at 2020 9:32 PM

2020-01-12T21:32:28-05:00

I would start likely with benefit of the doubt and being supportive. Instead of assuming the person is simply a malingerer just yet, what if they really do have issues but no doc is figuring it out? What if whatever the odd times this happens are actually triggers of a real condition? What if troop would do better if they could? Most people do well when they can. If they aren't doing well, what is the lagging skill or ability? Is it maybe not physiological issue, rather, this soldier and the army are not a good match for each other and both would be best served by breaking up, so to speak? So many variables. But if you really are a SGT, take this slow and think critically.