What punishment should I recommend for Soldier who showed up for an ASU inspection with it on a hanger?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 14:36:53 -0400

Backstory. This Soldier has know about the ASU inspection for well over a mont and had gained a substantial amount of weight this past year. She knew a month ago that she didn’t fit in her uniform. But instead of coming forward and saying anything she decided to show up the day of the inspection with it on a hanger saying she has it but it doesn’t fit. Is a punishment warranted for this action? If not what steps or counseling should I give her forcing her to buy a new uniform. Looking for guidance?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 2:48 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 14:48:03 -0400

Punishment? Probably not. Did you specify “in uniform”? A counseli is warranted though. A Soldier knows their uniforms should be ready for inspection at any time. End the counseling letting her know she has a set period of time to appear before you in her ASU. If she isn’t out of height weight standard you can’t direct her to lose weight to fit but you absolutely can set a time and date for another inspection.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 3:06 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:06:29 -0400

I wouldn’t punish this Soldier, however, I will give the Soldier the opportunity to get her the uniform fitted and re-schedule the inspection.

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Mar 25 at 2021 4:00 PM

MSgt Steve Sweeney — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:00:00 -0400

Fails inspection and the negative consequences that go with that, the same for anyone else that failed inspection, with reinspection in 15 days or sufficient time for uniform alteration. Start documenting. If she fails the follow up inspection as well, start processing for failure to maintain standards.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 4:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:32:19 -0400

You can't "punish" anyone. You can do corrective training though.

Counseling. Come up with a plan of action to correct the deficiencies. I would do a courtesy height/weight to see if she's out of regs and giving her a certain date to be within regulation or she will be flagged and enrolled in ABCP.

Counsel her that she needs to get her uniform fitted and you will have another inspection in xx days. If she fails that, you do the follow up portion on the bottom of the 4856 that she failed and counsel her again. If this becomes a repeated issue, you take it to the commander and the commander is the one who can put forth UCMJ.

Sit down and talk to the soldier and find out what's going on. Sometimes people gaining weight suddenly there are underlying issues.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 25 at 2021 5:47 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 17:47:10 -0400

Make her correct her deficiencies. Perhaps make her write Task Conditions and Standards.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 6:14 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:14:44 -0400

Burpees till they've worked off the "COVID 20" and can fit back into that uniform lol

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 25 at 2021 7:05 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:05:31 -0400

Is there an NCO involved.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Mar 25 at 2021 7:31 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:31:26 -0400

None. Punishment is the purview of the Commander, not an NCO. What is warranted is a counseling statement, with a plan of action to either have her uniform adjusted, or to purchase a new one , and a reinspection within a reasonable timeframe. She is required to maintain her uniforms, and is provided with a clothing allowance yearly to maintain them. Maintaining your uniform includes ensuring that the uniform is serviceable, part of a serviceable uniform is that it fits, and the responsibility is on the individual Soldier to ensure that it does.. Another route that can be taken is, if the Commander allows, and the post CIF stocks the ASU, He/She can write a memo (don't remember the actual type of memo) where she can DX the old uniform for a new one. Either way, an event oriented counseling statement should be done noting the discrepencies and her failure to inform leadership in a timely manner to resolve the issue.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 8:59 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:59:06 -0400

Regarding corrective training, she knew there was a uniform inspection on a time, place and location. Was she informed that she was to wear the uniform or was it left to interpretation?

Punishment is reserved for the commander, but corrective training is in your court. Were I in your position I would counsel her on the proper wear and appearance of the ASU.

In the plan of action I would have a height and weight conducted, have her research AR 670-1, and go over a cost effective plan to alter her uniform if possible. I say cost effective because uniform allowances aside, ASU's are not cheap. If she can't afford it without straining herself this may require you to address a finance issue going forward.

Based on her responses to the counseling and the status of the height and weight would play into your next counseling. If she's failing height and weight you should look into why and how best to bring her back to the standard. If the weight gain occurred quickly there could be an issue whether mental or physical that may need to be addressed, if it occurred overtime then a diet and PT plan needs to be established.

If diet is part of the path forward you may need to spend some time eating with her and going over the importance of nutrition as you eat together. This allows you to actually see what she selects for food and gives you the opportunity to verbally coach as its happening. You can PT her into the ground but a poor diet will halt all progress.

All sorts of factors to consider, good luck going forward with your troop SSG.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Mar 25 at 2021 9:26 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 21:26:02 -0400

FIRST, you need to give her the chance to explain why she gained the weight. If your Active Duty, you can order, or arrange for her to get a physical if she isn't forthcoming, or if she simply doesn't know. Your first responsibility (to any soldier) is their wellbeing ... and what if she has an unknown medical issue?
Once that's determined, if her weight is over standards, you can counsel her to get on a weight loss and fitness program, and you should see what you can do to help her facilitate that. If she's still within standards, and there's no health issues, then you should point out that every soldier gets a Uniform Allowance which, granted is more for the UPKEEP of uniforms, but ... soldiers really don't have a choice about whether they can show up for an inspection in civvies, or not.
It SOUNDS like your in a Reserve unit ... I can't imagine an Active Duty Soldier even THINKING they could show up for inspection with a uniform on a hanger.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 9:53 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 21:53:44 -0400

I know the Army way now is counseling. However, that DOES NOT always mean a paper trail. If shes generally squared away and does her job well, then a verbal counseling can stand (it's still an acceptable form of counseling). Have an actual conversation with her, rather than being one of those NCOs that says "hey you f*cked up, so I'm telling you you're wrong and what you're gonna do to fix it." There are a lot of things that can contribute to this type of decision-making (emotional stability, stress, financial hardship, etc). And as for the weight gain, which was undoubtedly her biggest obstacle, in wearing the uniform for inspection, again, this is a moment to open the dialogue, as there are a LOT of factors, especially with females, soldier or otherwise (yes it matters, even in the Army), that can affect fluctuations in weight and body mass. So open the dialogue with her. "Hey Soldier, I've noticed you've gained enough weight that your uniform no longer fits properly. We have regulations about this, and before it becomes too big an issue, I wanna talk to you about it, see if we can sort out what's causing it and work together to try and mitigate it.

Now, all of this being said, she knew a month in advance and SHOULD HAVE had the fortitude to come and talk to you. However having been a soldier that didn't trust their leadership or that the leadership had my best interest at heart, I can understand the reticence to do so. Sometimes, as a leader (and I've learned this now, as a civilian employer) we sometimes have to open that dialogue ourselves and establish the foundation of trust in our subordinates. Remember, trust is earned, but never assured.

All that being said, if she's set a precedent for being a soup sandwich and is typically more f*cked up than a football bat, then yes, counsel her on paper (just as much to CYA as hers) on the proper wear, maintenance and readiness of ALL Army uniforms, and set up a written plan of action of how to address it within a certain timeline. If she fails, CLOSE THE COUNSELLING annotating her failure to comply. If she succeeds, CLOSE THE COUNSELING with her success. But for the love of whatever holy item you see as praiseworthy, CLOSE OUT HER COUNSELINGS. I cannot tell you how much hell got raised in my last unit when it came to light that not ONE SINGLE counseling, for any soldier, had been closed out with remarks on progress.

Response by PO2 Richard Taylor made Mar 25 at 2021 10:01 PM

PO2 Richard Taylor — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:01:18 -0400

Enhanced PT every day until she fits the uniform again and then stands for inspection.

Response by MSgt Don VandeBogert made Mar 25 at 2021 10:48 PM

MSgt Don VandeBogert — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:48:33 -0400

This brings back fond memories of open rank inspections.

One less-than-stellar Amn got in trouble and showed up to the CCs office in his Service Dress...but couldn't button their pants or zip up their fly. It took some restraint to keep from laughing while the CC ripped him a new one. He got kicked out and rescheduled before they even got to his NJP portion. Shirt was turning different shades of red.

A second knucklehead was selected to travel with a group from Nellis AFB to be audience members for an episode of the Price is Right during military appreciation week. I kid you not, he got selected to go down front...in Service Dress...with a popped collar and no neck tie...on national television. Great representation of our service right there. Our Wing Commander was not pleased.

Both of these incidents caused squadron wide formations and uniform inspections. Sad to say, lots of issues were found. Missing uniform items, fitment issues, olks didnt even have a clue what decorations they were authorized, couple guys blew out their pants seams.

Bottom line, counciling and another inspection would be a minimum requirement, timeline to suit the situation. No service member should have an excuse as to why their uniform...all versions of them...don't fit. Goes to show more inspections may be needed. Also, if it were my subordinate, they'd owe me a briefing on uniform requirements, prepped and ready for briefing a formation.

V/R
Bogie

Response by SSG Katherine Likely made Mar 26 at 2021 1:36 AM

SSG Katherine Likely — Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:36:36 -0400

yes, punishment. how about the old one. 100 lines of i will loose weight, then 100 lines of i will get a uniform that fits me properly. she showed lack of respect for the unit, for the command and for herself.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Mar 26 at 2021 7:02 AM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Fri, 26 Mar 2021 07:02:39 -0400

There some good advice below, but the 1st thing you should find out as stated earlier is if there is valid medical reason for the wieght gain, I know I didn't always fit into my issue uniforms sometimes. She didn't get like this overnight and I realize the APFT and the new fitness tests are on hold till 2022 but all Soldiers are required to remain fit and within standards. A counseling session and maybe a statement are called for as well as a plan to bring her back into standards. Knowing about an ASU inspection for a month would have never been enough time to slim down, maybe she needs an ASU that fits. She is receiving a clothing allowance for maintaining and replacing uniform items. A leader should never push for punishment as a first step, correction, a plan to get right and supervision are key to fixing problems. Punishment comes latter when there is a pattern of ignoring the help or outright refusal to maintain a standard.
I highly recommend approaching this with a detached personal feeling or any anger or personal peeves will shine out brightly and influence the response from this Soldier. We never have to like those we lead but we need to treat them fairly and give them the same chances we give squared away ones right up to the time corrective training and recommendations for UCMJ are done. None of us is perfect and well all some truly stupid things in uniform but we learn from them with proper mentoring and leadership.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2021 10:45 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Mar 2021 10:45:21 -0400

Counsel her that she has 72 hours to provide a serviceable and wearable ASU. If she fails to do that then you can get her for failure to follow orders.

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Mar 26 at 2021 3:37 PM

SGT Robert Wager — Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:37:29 -0400

Put it on paper and recommend a summarized art 15 for failing to follow instructions. Let your 1SG and CO handle it from there

Response by MAJ Jason Sierakowski made Mar 26 at 2021 3:56 PM

MAJ Jason Sierakowski — Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:56:45 -0400

Remedial training.... Create a counseling statement. In the plan of action have a date and time for her to actually wear the uniform. Also refer to the appropriate reference and doctrine of the purpose of an inspection.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2021 5:52 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Mar 2021 17:52:54 -0400

Is this troop fresh from AIT or tech school?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2021 8:44 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Mar 2021 08:44:55 -0400

Counsel her. during the counseling sit down with her and figure out if she either needs to alter her current uniform, or purchase a new one. Once you have both determined a doable plan of action give her a timeline to have it complete. If she fails to complete the plan of action close out the counseling and recommend her for UCMJ.
When was she last screened in accordance with AR 600-9?
How involved are you in your Soldier's physical fitness?
Her wait gain is a direct reflection on your leadership and before you judge her for gaining wait you need to take a step back and ask yourself what can you do to improve her fitness, It sounds like you have gradually noticed her wait gain over the last year. You are partly to blame for not doing anything about it until after the ACU inspection.

Response by SCPO James Britton made Apr 4 at 2021 3:30 PM

SCPO James Britton — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 15:30:11 -0400

Hmmmmmm this may sound stupid but did you tell the soldier that she need to wear it for the inspection. I say this because these kids you havr to ber very descriptive and exacting with them. They will just act like they are smarter than you. Secondly, You cannot punish anyone, The commanding officer is the only one that can do that. You can only enforce the punisment given by the CO. Thirdly why wasnt she sent to the Doc's fr weigh in and taped whe you noticed her excessive weight gain, Part of a good leadership is intrusive leadership. Not only is it a requirement for her physically wise but also medially wise. This is called taking care or your soldiers , sailors, Airmen and Marines. I can go all day about this, so this is the condense version. These kids need to be p4repared for battle, She cant carry a 75 pound ruck sack if she cant manage her weight, Good luck, Oh and BTW annotatre everything and evaluate her with integrity.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2021 11:22 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Apr 2021 11:22:15 -0400

Do you "know" the soldier or is she just someone who falls under your chain? She could be having medical issues, psychological issues or emotional issues (death in the family). It has been my experience that far too often senior NCO's fail there soldiers by losing touch with them and caring more about stats then the soldiers. I once asked a 1sg if he knew how many of his soldiers were employed, in school, un(der)employed, had significant others, children etc. He said no. I then said "I'll bet you can me how many of them are passing apft, height/weight/tape, weapons qual etc" . He said yes. I said "there is the problem with the army today". You don't have to be their friend but you do need to get to know them so that you can spot a serious issue should one arise.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Apr 6 at 2021 12:37 PM

PO1 Todd McMillin — Tue, 06 Apr 2021 12:37:38 -0400

Counseling and maybe put them on the "Fat Person Weight Loss Club". Then you have your "pound of flesh" for the action. This is a learning experience in failure to follow orders; but she followed the terms of said directive. The "Weekend Warriors" usually were inspected when they came to do DRILL. They'd leave their uniforms on hangars to be inspected and up to code. This way they could be doing more important stuff vs looking pretty for the Officers.

While, I always kept an Inspection ready uniform that did fit; so she can be dinged for it since she's out of standards for physical requirements. But again it's a minor issue that should be noted on her Evals in for future and slap on the wrist.

Rather than being outright cruel and malicious in punishment and go full on hardcore acts which further causes negative interactions between you and them. The New Military needs to "Work Smarter, Not Harder" in correcting their people who fuck up without causing future hostility and lack of trust on both sides.

Smart leadership is being creative with punishments, not vindicate and petty. I saw too many Senior Enlisted and Junior Officers engage in those kind of actions to punish their underlings. This later backfired on them when they got in trouble, therefore their own troops decided to harm rather than help their leader out when the leader was in trouble rather than protect them in turn. It's a two way street and watched a few Officers get their head handed to them when they fucked up and their people helped to make it worse.

Response by MSgt Brian Williams made Apr 6 at 2021 2:10 PM

MSgt Brian Williams — Tue, 06 Apr 2021 14:10:06 -0400

The inspection should count as a failure and she should have to endure the consequences normally associated with a failed inspection. After that, if she is a good troop, find out why she chose her path and offer her some help with her weight problem and the underlying causes. If she isn't a good troop and has been a habitual PITA, process her for failure to maintain standards.

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made Apr 6 at 2021 8:25 PM

CAPT Edward Schmitt — Tue, 06 Apr 2021 20:25:01 -0400

As the SFC stated she failed, dig to the root cause and if she does not correct escalate to command authority for possible UCMJ action

Response by MAJ Mike Pagotto made Apr 7 at 2021 12:41 PM

MAJ Mike Pagotto — Wed, 07 Apr 2021 12:41:54 -0400

Summary article 15 for failure to report in the correct uniform. You certainly can use nonjudicial punishment in this case. Or you could do corrective training by having them report in a different uniform every 15 minutes for a couple hours to make sure everything fits and they know how to properly wear it and how to correctly report to formation

Response by SrA Julius Newman made Apr 7 at 2021 9:05 PM

SrA Julius Newman — Wed, 07 Apr 2021 21:05:25 -0400

Sounds like she is having trouble with stress eating and mental health. Talk to her about her finances, her family, her relationships at home and see if there’s anything you can do to help. Help her put together the resources (counselors, finances, nutritionist etc) to get her back on track. Then punish her if she doesn’t stick to that plan.

Response by CPL James Scollard made Apr 8 at 2021 8:36 PM

CPL James Scollard — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 20:36:04 -0400

Remedial PT in the form of all her uniforms on hangers that she currently isn't supposed to be wearing, then rolled up in a rucksack that she has to carry everywhere except to sleep, with a 25lb weight. Several times per day she will run a lap around the brigade space within a time limit that she and I determine running together once when she is rested so that I know she isn't walking instead of running.

This ends when the uniform fits again.

;)

Response by GySgt James Marchinke made Apr 9 at 2021 9:33 AM

GySgt James Marchinke — Fri, 09 Apr 2021 09:33:07 -0400

Counseling works better than punishment. Punishment leads to more negative behaviors. I always punished as a last resort. For her, she needs to be placed on the overweight program if it is deemed that she is? Or give a timeframe to adjust the uniform and schedule another one-on-one inspection?

Response by SGT Allen Treviranus made Apr 9 at 2021 12:07 PM

SGT Allen Treviranus — Fri, 09 Apr 2021 12:07:57 -0400

You're a SSG. Figure it out.

Response by SSgt John R Becker made Apr 9 at 2021 3:38 PM

SSgt John R Becker — Fri, 09 Apr 2021 15:38:17 -0400

Where do you start. Wow has the military changed that much that one could even get away with this no less to say that takes a lot of lack of planning on her behalf.
First off she needs to be told that this is not acceptable at all and for her to get her stuff together and report back to this duty station at this time and date.
This will be the last warning and the next time you will be written up and the proper punishment will be applied.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2021 12:48 AM

MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Apr 2021 00:48:13 -0400

"She knew a month ago that she didn’t fit in her uniform. But instead of coming forward and saying anything she decided to show up the day of the inspection with it on a hanger saying she has it but it doesn’t fit"
Aside from possibility of medical, personal, or other issues, I think at least a discussion is warranted to figure out where this went off the rails. What were her intentions if she knew the inspection was coming up? Did she have a plan and was it realistic? What are the other facets of her appearance and grooming, her performance, all of these would come into play. It might be as simple as a lack of discipline on her part but how will you know until you discuss?

I suppose the first question I would want to get to the bottom of is why she did not feel comfortable coming to you with this issue as soon as the inspection was announced. If this was an issue with YOU being approachable and the Soldier did not feel comfortable talking to you about their weight gain, lack of a plan, or a uniform issue, will they turn to you if they have a "real" problem? This might be a good opportunity to reconnect with the Soldiers and reaffirm that you are there for them no matter what the issue.

Response by SP5 Benjamin Brockette made Apr 10 at 2021 3:47 AM

SP5 Benjamin Brockette — Sat, 10 Apr 2021 03:47:19 -0400

Corrective training/remedial action. I don’t know why people have just plain “lost” the ability to communicate deficiencies. Was she too embarrassed to say anything that she had a little too heavy for the uniform? She couldn’t get a new one? So what’s her financial situation that she couldn’t afford to get new ASU’s, since the Army gives us money to replace our outgrown/unserviceable uniforms? Your/our jobs as leaders is to help guide and teach those underneath our leadership. Not punish and smash them into smithereens. But on the other hand, I don’t believe in always counseling for remedial action. Sometimes a good scuffing is all soldiers need.

Response by SGT Dennis Z made Apr 11 at 2021 9:50 AM

SGT Dennis Z — Sun, 11 Apr 2021 09:50:51 -0400

She should have been responsible enough to purchase a new uniform that fit. I gained weight after basic. I purchased another uniform that fit. I kept both uniforms to ensure I always had a uniform that fit. She absolutely deserves corrective action (Punishment). It's up to you what punishment, but she showed irresponsibility as well as not being in uniform.

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Apr 11 at 2021 2:27 PM

PO1 Don Uhrig — Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:27:42 -0400

As a leader, YOU should have noticed a member's physical change (weight gain) and YOU must take your role in that into consideration when assigning corrective action. You can choose to be punitive (not mandatory) or you can choose to build your member up. You don't have to coddle the soldier, but every member is an investment. It's a leaders job to get the maximum return on the investment even if that takes some time away from primary duties while the member receives nutritional counseling or physical conditioning and coaching at the fitness center. There could even be underlying psychological reasons for weight gain. Ask yourself, "Is this soldier worth retaining?" And take the appropriate humane course of action.

Response by SGT William DavisWatkins made Apr 11 at 2021 5:22 PM

SGT William DavisWatkins — Sun, 11 Apr 2021 17:22:26 -0400

Just push and push and more push.

Response by LCDR Arthur Whittum made Apr 11 at 2021 7:29 PM

LCDR Arthur Whittum — Sun, 11 Apr 2021 19:29:28 -0400

She really needs some additional training. That might catch a few wisps of wind in the civilian world, but it shows an attitude that really needs a swift adjustment. So, corrective action would include appropriate treatment to drive home the concept of personal responsibility. Not to mention some challenging exercises to regain fitness. My 1957-1979 experience would prompt me to recommend more drastic measures, but I'm getting mellow.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2021 2:15 AM

MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Apr 2021 02:15:26 -0400

Now looking over some of the comments that I missed when I first responded it looks like you were not entirely forthcoming with your original post, and actually seems a little like click bait. While folks are responding about the hypothetical backstory and the guessing as to the "why's and what if's", you left out crucial elements of information in your initial post, like this little tid bit that was conveniently or disingenuously left out:

"Her weight gain is on her. She has had a profile preventing her from participating in any serious PT. She gets a new profile almost every month. Due to COVID we can’t get her on H/W but we did a diag to see where the PLT was and she was 37% body fat and way over the limit."

This would add some color to the backstory and no doubt would have changed and saved many the trouble of commenting. How is it you do not know what to do with respect to her uniform situation?

Response by MAJ Howard Manwarren made Apr 12 at 2021 12:02 PM

MAJ Howard Manwarren — Mon, 12 Apr 2021 12:02:59 -0400

Seems to me that the first NCO above her in the unit dropped the ball as did that NCOs NCO. I see a failure in leadership in this outfit

Response by SP5 Geoffrey Vannerson made Apr 12 at 2021 12:21 PM

SP5 Geoffrey Vannerson — Mon, 12 Apr 2021 12:21:33 -0400

If she doesn't have a profile, has passed her previous PT testing, and her BMI is the only thing out of whack then she needs EXTRA attention from her squad leader and platoon SGT to whip her into shape. If the ASU is out of the question how much further away is the rest of the soldiers uniform(s)?
Brings to mind this video!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0hPO4Aa86Y

Pyle eats donut

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Apr 12 at 2021 12:24 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Mon, 12 Apr 2021 12:24:03 -0400

ACCOUNTABILITY. You don't need to punish the SM. Simply inform (in writing) them they have X days to have a serviceable uniform that fits properly. Check with your next level leader to see how long will be allowed. Normally 2 pay periods depending on the cost.
If she fails to meet that requirement you can suggest disciplinary action be taken. Taking liberty sucks for most young troops. Taking money is worse. Perhaps both will slow the trips to the local all you can eat or McSloppy burger joint.
In the meantime take the SM to the gym every morning, delegate if possible, and ensure that the jelly donuts she had for breakfast get worked out (puked out).
In the end you want the lesson to be "Life is easier when I comply with lawful orders."

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2021 2:39 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Apr 2021 02:39:43 -0400

You're exaggerating the severity of this, just work harder during PT, emphasize the importance of staying in shape, there's no need to "punish" someone who genuinely doesn't fit into their ASU, buying a new one is expensive and any logical NCO would recognize that, it is important to be "squared away" but not at the detriment to a soldier's career. Be supportive and UNDERSTANDING not cruel and vindictive.

Response by MSG Bob S made Apr 16 at 2021 12:50 PM

MSG Bob S — Fri, 16 Apr 2021 12:50:08 -0400

I would inspect them on a hanger, then perform a height/weight assessment because I suspect she’s out of regs. Set up remedial PT outside of normal daily PT with you administering PT, and give her a time frame in which meet the standards.

Response by GySgt Stephen Hogarth made Apr 29 at 2021 5:18 AM

GySgt Stephen Hogarth — Thu, 29 Apr 2021 05:18:49 -0400

I know that wearing BDU's/ACU's/Cammies, whatever they're called today, hides a lot of sins. What is the PT schedule like at your unit? Does the soldier PT? Have you had an opportunity to observe the soldier in PT uniform? There were so many (daily) opportunities to observe this soldier long before the ASU inspection. Does this soldier meet height/weight standards? Are they a little overweight, a lot overweight, or does the earth shake when they walk? Or, has the soldier merely put on a few pounds since basic, but are still within height/weight standards? Whose inspection was it? Yours, or the Company or Battalion Commanders'?

I ask these questions, not expecting an answer, but to give you, a leader, food for thought. If this soldier is overweight, everybody in her leadership chain had ample opportunity to observe and correct the weight issue long before the ASU inspection; if this is the case, her leadership failed her.

If the soldier is relatively new and merely put on a few pounds, but is still within height/weight standards, my recommendation would be informal counseling - unless it was the Company or Battalion Commanders' inspection; then the decision would be up to them. Our young men and women often make decisions about staying in during their first year after boot camp. If their leadership sucks, they get out. This is an opportunity for you to take a young soldier under your wing and mentor/teach them in a way that they know they can trust you to be fair and just. During the counseling, make sure you ask them about their finances - why didn't they get their uniform tailored? Poor financial management is an indicator of many things at home - drugs, alcohol, abusive spouse, and so on. Show you care.

When you are done with your counseling, you should set a re-inspection date and make it clear that bringing their uniform in on a hanger is not acceptable. Set a follow-up for "next week" and tell them that you want to see proof (a receipt) that they have gone to alterations to have their uniform tailored. Also tell her that if her uniform can't be altered, and she needs to buy a new uniform altogether, that you want to know that too; because, if finances are an issue, buying new uniforms may create new problems in other areas. Then her circumstances will spiral out of control.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2021 3:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 May 2021 15:39:27 -0400

The fact that you think you need to punish anyone already speaks volumes of your experience and training. Military leaders do not punish anyone, that’s what court marshals are for. So dump that mindset. If any Soldier under your leadership fails then so do you. Then I would recommend looking at the infraction. Does it require anything more than counseling or in your words “punishment “? Is it possible he/she did not get the correct instructions? Is the uniform not ready for wear? There are many scenarios that precipitated his/her actions. I recommend always taking a proactive approach to handling Soldiers that fall short of expectations. If you feel you need additional guidance I strongly recommend utilizing your chain of command.

Response by SrA Kyle Saritelli made May 9 at 2021 4:03 PM

SrA Kyle Saritelli — Sun, 09 May 2021 16:03:28 -0400

My advice would be counseling and get her side of the story. Coming from an experience I had in my last year active (Air Force). My supervisor was on a TDY so the new E-5 was in charge of me (E-4) and noticed my top wasn't fitting so well. This was on a Tuesday and she wanted me to go get new ones by Friday. We didn't work on base (Hawaii, stationed at Hickam, working in Kunia Station) so I went up after I got out, bought some new tops, patches, ordered the name tapes. Friday rolled around and the name tapes hadn't come in yet so I was obviously still in the old tops. I explained to her they weren't in, but apparently there was a place on base that could make them and I should have done that, despite not knowing about it. So she wrote me up and told me if I'm not in the new tops on Monday then she'll write me up again, so go straight to base after work and get it done. I asked if I could leave early then to which I was told no. I explained that the tops, the patches, everything was at my apartment (off base) and that if I left at the normal time, there is no way I'd be able to get to my apartment to get everything and then get to base before the tailor closed for the weekend. She again told me I'm not leaving early and to figure it out. In the end I just went to base, repurchased everything and paid for same day service as well as paying for them to remain after close. So yeah, don't handle it like she did. Counseling and talking are a lot better then corrective action.

Response by CN Dennis Stender made May 10 at 2021 12:44 PM

CN Dennis Stender — Mon, 10 May 2021 12:44:50 -0400

Having her buy a new uniform and stand watch consequential shifts might ring the bell, oh don't forget to get the receipt !

Response by Sgt Ronald Scurry made May 10 at 2021 4:59 PM

Sgt Ronald Scurry — Mon, 10 May 2021 16:59:00 -0400

If you knew she didn't fit into her uniform a month ago, where was your follow up prior to inspection? I suspect the leadership is partly at fault here.

Response by SPC Gene Ritchhart made May 10 at 2021 5:13 PM

SPC Gene Ritchhart — Mon, 10 May 2021 17:13:13 -0400

Corrective weight measures or flogging? Give her the choice. I know they don't do that; but it would let her know it's an infraction.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made May 11 at 2021 11:25 AM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Tue, 11 May 2021 11:25:50 -0400

I once had an inspection, & haven't updated my patch (1st Armor) on my Dress Greens Jacket (previous MedCom patch). My Squad Leader politely explained, though we are Medics first, we should keep our uniforms updated, & all assigned units warranted esprit de corps, regardless of MOS. Yes I did have issues, but I took corrective action. As a general rule, from them, I didn't allow my "personal" opinions to reflect on my performance or professionalism.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made May 11 at 2021 11:27 AM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Tue, 11 May 2021 11:27:51 -0400

We don't even punish prisoners, we reform them, while in custody! PUNISHMENT only breeds animosity.

Response by MAJ Anne McGee made May 11 at 2021 11:37 AM

MAJ Anne McGee — Tue, 11 May 2021 11:37:51 -0400

This raises a whole bunch of questions for me. Does the Army have height/weight standards anymore? Are you doing PT and is she falling out of runs? Is she a consistently good performer and has her duty performance suffered recently? Is she pregnant? If she doesn't feel comfortable talking with you about the underlying cause of her issue, do you have a Chaplain she can go to? Have you asked her if she wants to stay in the Army? If she doesn't want to stay in it won't matter what you do. She may be trying to eat her way out and there would be an underlying cause for that as well. You will have to dig deeper on this to come to a resolution and path forward whether it is retention or a Chapter it needs to be addressed quickly - your soldiers are watching how you handle this. Remember, your leadership should be informed (at least the First Sergeant), so if this goes South they are not blind-sided. Good luck!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2021 6:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 May 2021 18:36:31 -0400

I would agree that punish is a bit too much. Go back to basics of soldiering, teach, counsel and mentor -then document by a counseling statement. Lastly use a suspense date for the action you directed.

Response by CW5 Les Rayburn made May 12 at 2021 1:12 AM

CW5 Les Rayburn — Wed, 12 May 2021 01:12:14 -0400

More to this story than just a uniform that doesn’t fit. You have a soldier that doesn’t care, doesn’t plan, and knows that nothing will happen to them. I disagree about no punishment. This is a gross “failure to comply”.

Response by SFC Robert McBride made May 12 at 2021 9:42 AM

SFC Robert McBride — Wed, 12 May 2021 09:42:42 -0400

You should have made her go and put it on at once. Does the Army no longer have height and weight requirements?

Response by SGT Keith Smith made May 12 at 2021 11:11 AM

SGT Keith Smith — Wed, 12 May 2021 11:11:14 -0400

Okay you need to establish how long has she known that her uniform did not fit properly. Second you need to find out what the underlying reason for her not correcting it on her own. Inspect it and make sure that the only issue is the fitting. Had a soldier who did this and had used another soldiers uniform. Wasn’t because the one he was issued didn’t fit but he was to lazy to put his uniform together for inspection. You might want to find out if AAFES is still doing tailoring. Possible that even if she had gotten a new uniform it couldn’t have been fitted. Money also could have been an issue. This could be caused by an even larger issue. You will need to document this so counseling statement will be needed. You need to reference 670-1 more specifically the maintaining of issued clothing items. Also the need for her to inform you as soon as possible of any issues. You may need corrective training or you may need to refer her through the commander of course for budget courses. You may not need to do anything more than to document the incident. Don’t jump to any conclusions till you find the root cause then address it. I have had my soldiers pull this stunt more than once. One was just lazy. One didn’t put on the uniform till the night of because he was worried about messing it up. One found out it would take much longer than expected to get it altered. One just didn’t have the money and did not know they could get star card with just military clothing only. Each of these must be handled differently. Be fair and impartial stick to the creed. Another thing to address is when the soldier receives their military clothing allowance and how they use that money. After finding the underlying cause address it then check that it’s corrected. Document that as well. You may need that later. I ended up recommending an article 15 for the lazy one and possible separation. Doing it right will be crucial if it needs to go to legal.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2021 12:48 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 May 2021 12:48:21 -0400

Hmm, reading the responses to your question, I can see a multi-prong approach to this:

First, Find out "WHY" she failed to notify you of her "condition" and why, if she did not correct it on her own, if she wanted to keep the issue to herself (triple "P" was in play here: Piss Poor Planning, creates Piss Poor Performance on her part). I am thinking you are her squad leader, so tell her you will keep this quiet between you and her, but you want to know "WHY". Tell her you want to see her current checkbook and banking records, just incase you have a financial problem starting to show up. If so, demand she get financial counseling help and you want to be kept inform of her situation. If she has "no" financial hardships, then demand by a certain date her and her uniforms be in regs, or you will seek UCMJ action.

Second, have her taped. If she is out of regs, then have the squad do extra PT to help "motivate" her to bring her self back into regs. If she gives you any problems over this, up channel it to Top for his corrective actions.

Third, she needs counseling paperwork and a corrective action timeline, with her acknowledging her failure, corrective actions, and ramifications for failure to progress in a positive direction. Also, tell her that this paperwork will disappear either upon her or your leaving the unit.

Oh, one other thing, when she does correct for her failure, she needs to be standing tall at a time that is not convenient for her. I understand that will not be great for you, but it will show her YOUR resolve to have a team, rather than individuals in your group. And, I would consider at the time of her re-inspection, having the squad standing tall alongside of her would be a motivational factor for her. I'd let the squad know that they need to function and operate as one to get the job done. Let them know you'd like to be a friend and councilor, but first and foremost you are their boss and responsible for their actions. If they care not for this, take a look on the outside, in the civilian world, as many are having issues making it out here.

One other thing I would do: record all conversations with her from start to you giving an overview of what transpired, so there is no way she can try to ensnare you in any lies she may try to conger up against you. CYOA!

If you think she is salvageable, then work with her, but not if she does not want to work with you.

Response by SFC Pamela Williams made May 12 at 2021 5:54 PM

SFC Pamela Williams — Wed, 12 May 2021 17:54:34 -0400

Why would you just think it was a female, the person did not specify a gender. It could be male and would also recommend the same or him. I would all military person should be treated the same and not assume it is female because they were not told about being dress for the the inspection instead of bringing the uniform on a hanger.

Response by SFC Jerald Bottcher made May 12 at 2021 11:44 PM

SFC Jerald Bottcher — Wed, 12 May 2021 23:44:06 -0400

I ran into this from time to time while I was an NCO.
You waited until the day of inspection to make she she had her uniform right? What in the heck are YOU doin?

If she deliberately did as you say. You should be writing her up a formal counseling statement and recommend NJP . right now!.

If not deliberate You should still be writing her up a formal counseling statement

Regardless, You then direct her to get her uniform to the tailor to have it adjusted so it fits. If it cannot be adjusted she has to go out and purchase the uniform items that no longer fit. That is what the clothing allowance is for.

She also needs corrective training, Keep in mind the training should be targeted to correcting what she did wrong. If she honestly never checked to make sure her uniform fit before inspection, then you gear the corrective training to that end. (attention to detail, keeping up to date on tasks and duties, reading the training calendar and so on)

If she checked her uniform and did not make any effort to correct it, or tried to hide issue then there is a problem with the soldier that at a minimum of a summarized article 15 (extra duty but no fine or loss of rank, goes away when you go to another unit, doesn't go on the permanent record unless you get another article 15, can straighten out a soldier before they go bad)

Response by SFC Zohn Tennyson made May 13 at 2021 6:43 AM

SFC Zohn Tennyson — Thu, 13 May 2021 06:43:34 -0400

Ahhhh; the difference between combat arms and the rest. Showing up like that is a failure to follow orders properly and if she/he/it can’t fit in the uniform, then they’re probably overweight. I’d follow basic protocol. Counseling statement with timeline for improvement and “corrective action” for failure to follow orders.

Response by MSgt Lawrence Guidry made May 13 at 2021 10:54 AM

MSgt Lawrence Guidry — Thu, 13 May 2021 10:54:40 -0400

Can't maintain standards of conduct and appropiate uniform for all formations the ROTC is not needing this individual, it appears to be a status symbol at ASU, surprised??

Response by PO1 Chris Christiansen made May 15 at 2021 12:35 PM

PO1 Chris Christiansen — Sat, 15 May 2021 12:35:24 -0400

now a days you can't do ANYTHING cause you will hurt their feelings,OMG back then we were taught not to have feelings but I digress, let her know that there are programs for her to enter to be able to fit in that uniform or start ordering larger uniforms but never show up with it on a hanger that is a write up for sure

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2021 10:02 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 May 2021 22:02:47 -0400

Document, document, document! That cannot be stressed enough. It will be required of you, as a leader to look into a few items. First, military appearance. First formation, troop inspections. Is this soldier flagged for medical, APFT performance failure, profiles? You have plenty to look at. My first thought, right off the bat is Counselling Statement for failure to follow directions. Do you, as a leader, have an Initial Counselling Statement on file with this soldier as you should all soldiers under your supervision?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2021 7:09 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 May 2021 19:09:36 -0400

I completely agree with the comment about talking to the Soldier and finding out if there is a personal issue causing problems. Also, rather than recommending punishment for the Soldier ask yourself if you asked each Soldier directly if they have any problems with the upcoming inspection, and not in a formation, but individually.

Response by LTJG Edward Bangor Jr made May 16 at 2021 9:57 PM

LTJG Edward Bangor Jr — Sun, 16 May 2021 21:57:58 -0400

Just to play devil's advocate, we would do hangar inspections on the ship now and then. Was your Soldier coming from a command where this was the norm and thus only expected to need her uniform on a hangar? It could be a case of institutionalized habits that need to change at a new duty station, but take time to work themselves out.

Also, nobody but the CO can punish anyone. NJP is reserved for Commanding Officers. Anything more formal requires court martial authority. Even EMI might require an Officer's (i.e. platoon commander's) sign off. Crossing that line is an excellent way to get yourself jammed up.

Response by SSgt Glenn Martin made May 17 at 2021 12:54 PM

SSgt Glenn Martin — Mon, 17 May 2021 12:54:21 -0400

Doesn't she get a clothing allowance? YES! Escort her to clothing sales and make
her buy uniforms that fit. If she is Overweight put her on the "Large Sarge Program"
then write her up.

Response by SSgt Glenn Martin made May 17 at 2021 12:55 PM

SSgt Glenn Martin — Mon, 17 May 2021 12:55:09 -0400

Doesn't she get a clothing allowance? YES! Escort her to clothing sales and make
her buy uniforms that fit. If she is Overweight put her on the "Large Sarge Program"
then Write Her Up!

Response by GySgt Stephen Hogarth made May 18 at 2021 12:11 AM

GySgt Stephen Hogarth — Tue, 18 May 2021 00:11:14 -0400

Following up on my previous post - Is this the first ASU Inspection? In other words, at the lowest level, the first inspection is designed specifically to catch tailoring issues. Yes, showing up with her uniform on a hanger instead of on her body is an obvious sign that her uniform doesn't fit as required. Treat her the same way you would treat any other soldier who showed up to the inspection with an ill-fitting uniform. Be fair, and be just. You might turn a "bad" soldier around by epitomizing fairness and justice.

I remember a long time ago, there was a wayward Marine who was the bane of his Gunny's existence. That Gunny took that wayward Marine under his wing and mentored him instead of admonishing him at every misstep. That wayward Marine got his act together and went on to a full career and mentored many other Marines during his career.

Anybody can yell and berate; leaders mold and mentor those in their charge.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2021 2:40 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 May 2021 02:40:56 -0400

Every person get an allotment to get a new uniform ever year She has no excuse she had a months notice to get her uniform squared away for inspection if she cant fit into the uniform means she is not with in weight standards. Corrective action need to happen ASAP if this person can not complete a simple task as having a uniform ready in one month how can the other people in her platoon mates count on her when she is needed when the time counts

Response by SPC Phil Norton made May 18 at 2021 8:52 AM

SPC Phil Norton — Tue, 18 May 2021 08:52:23 -0400

So here’s the deal the fat soldier gained weight cuz they couldn’t keep their mouth shut and filled it with twinkies and crap food. Contrary to what everyone says you are not a shrink or guidance counselor. The soldier disobeyed an order first of all second I am pretty sure you all still get a clothing allowance 3rd P.T. that soldier up and down the hall and all over the quad give them extra physical therapy at every opportunity to help them understand that becoming a disgusting fat body is not the answer to whatever bothers them. If you don’t like that course you can use a pen and counsel them .and as far as underlying problems send them to sick call or the Chaplin and let them figure any mental issues.who the hell is turning my beloved Army in to snowflake daycare ridiculous

Response by SFC Robert Walton made May 18 at 2021 9:19 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Tue, 18 May 2021 09:19:24 -0400

Okay i am going to say it, If you have Soldier that has gained that much weight and your just finding out i see you as the bigger problem and then wanting to punish the individual before you even know the details?
Time for you to do some self evaluation and get back to being a leader.
JMTC

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2021 6:14 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 May 2021 18:14:26 -0400

Does the back story include you knowing about the weight gain and counseling the Soldier?
Yes, obviously she is responsible for herself, but since you appear to be her leader, you bear some of the responsibility, as well.
Has she failed a ht/wt?
Have you tried working with her on losing the weight?
Maybe that got left out, but if your first instinct is just to punish and not try to help fix a situation, you're wrong. If you just left that out, you're also wrong to not give a complete picture.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2021 6:55 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 May 2021 18:55:31 -0400

I don't want to be super critical here, and this is only an opinion. In my day, enlisted units functioned as teams. Something went seriously wrong in your team for this to happen. These type of events are always the result of an entire chain of events of failure. A soldier failing inspection is a failure of the entire team. If this soldier is not a Sergeant, were was the Sergeant (E-5), her team leader? Where were her peers? Like for many others in this forum, it's hard for me to believe that no one noticed this troop was either slacking or failing (even, or perhaps especially, new arrivals to a team must be fully inspected and fit and serviceability of all issue gear verified). When someone is or falls behind, it is everyone's duty on the team to do something about it. Just as it is everyone's duty to look out for each other in combat. This is the military, and not everyone graduating from basic training is mature enough to plan ahead to not fail. This is why there is a rigid supervisory system in place, that is supposed to address failures to plan on behalf of junior members, ideally before they happen. Forming a cohesive, cooperative, and supportive team is the ideal solution to prevent failure. Not everything has to be done by means of punishment (excepting direct and obstinate insubordination). Much can be done by training your folks to work with each other and address issues amongst themselves, mostly by providing motivation. The concept of combat readiness and its benefit to individual survival should be leveraged as a key motivation to prevent readiness issues. A soldier should always have the expectation of having to deploy at any given moment. A soldier should be aware that if she or he is not ready, nor is their weapon system as they are an inextricable part of the same. They need to know they are failing themselves and everyone on their team if they are failing to be ready. Finding an unserviceable weapon system during combat is unacceptable. Inspections are periodical, and most of the time for the purpose of inventory. Finding out your soldier (and weapon system) is unserviceable at that time is as unacceptable as such a "reveal" when the bullets are flying. Managing your team and its combat readiness is a daily duty. At minimum, your team leaders should have assured pre-inspection readiness. Ideally however, the now ever-more present condition of "everyone for themselves" and everyone staying in their private, mostly social media or gaming-induced bubble, is addressed and replaced by the common goal of staying alive when the sh.t hits the fan. If they can't even manage to have each other's backs at inspection time, what is going to happen when it gets real?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 23 at 2021 5:30 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 23 May 2021 17:30:13 -0400

I would inspect her in ASUs a few times.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made May 23 at 2021 8:27 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 23 May 2021 20:27:40 -0400

I would article 15 her for failure to obey a lawful order. I would recommend 30 days extra duty, 30 days restriction, and a fine that totaled the amount of money needed to purchase a uniform that fit.

I would then PT her ass till it sucked buttermilk for two hours a day for the next 30 days and at the end, make her use the money she was fined to purchase a uniform that fit.

Now that said, has she recently put on weight because she is pregnant? Cause that would be a different action, instead I would not PT her or article 15 her, but I would expect her to purchase a maternity uniform.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2021 11:00 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 May 2021 23:00:28 -0400

There is a problem here. Your the the problem. Soldiers are a reflection if their leaders. If they are screwups so are the leaders. The question is why didn't you notice the weight gain. Why are you unapproachable? Why don't you keep tabs on those you are responsible for.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made May 24 at 2021 12:06 AM

MSG John Duchesneau — Mon, 24 May 2021 00:06:24 -0400

Give her a counseling statement, get her issued a uniform that fits, and have her report for duty wearing her ASUs for 5 days straight. As the ASU is an issue item - she should be able to DX it with supply. If she has to buy a new one - that's punishment enough.

Response by SGT Mark Vandolah made May 24 at 2021 6:42 AM

SGT Mark Vandolah — Mon, 24 May 2021 06:42:43 -0400

Smoke session

Response by SSG Eric Blue made May 24 at 2021 1:48 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Mon, 24 May 2021 13:48:25 -0400

In my experience, a "uniform showcase" helped to fix the problem. 5 minutes to change into IPFUs (seasonally appropriate), 5 minutes of exercises, 10 minutes to change PROPERLY into Army Greens (back then/ASUs now) for an inspection, 10 minutes to properly stow your Class As and change into ACUs, 5 minutes of exercise, 5 minutes to change from ACUs to IPFUs, and 10 more minutes of exercise. For my soldiers who could not properly fit into their dress uniforms, I put it on paper and came up with a wellness plan (NOT FITNESS...WELLNESS) with their input to remedy the problem. Fortunately for me, they were all barracks soldiers. So the time limits I set worked out great. The wellness plan DID involve extra physical training, but it also involved a strict meal plan in which all 4 of us ate and trained together. After the 18th day, the soldiers started getting extra work on their own AFTER we would finish working. It was pretty involved, but I believe that is what it sometimes requires in order to reach success. Best of luck with your troop, battle.

Response by SPC Phil Norton made May 27 at 2021 10:17 AM

SPC Phil Norton — Thu, 27 May 2021 10:17:00 -0400

Wow after looking at some of the senior NCO posts I wish I could reenlist. I would walk all over your get to know the soldiers problem state of mind lol. Do you have any idea what a motivated Spc4 can do with that kind of slack. OMG I would sham all day and have you believe that it was everybody else’s fault but mine. Generation gap for sure but hey I could be wrong maybe if I was coddled I wouldn’t be disabled today.

Response by PFC Chester Southworth made May 28 at 2021 11:08 PM

PFC Chester Southworth — Fri, 28 May 2021 23:08:37 -0400

I got the same issue, in Iraq punished for holes in my uniform unable to buy any, barred from asking for any, yet punished the same way. Rifle rubs holes on my huge crotch area, with my blue jeans under them covering up my Underwear full of ❤️ hearts. Was told to wear civilian pants at from all my supply sergeants request to cover up, every time I saluted an officer at Kirkuk Iraq, I was penalized to a sexual orientation class. I never questioned my sexuality until I deployed to Iraq, and watched some amazing Army PowerPoint porno slides. I had six ACU pants ripped from the crotch area. The same thing as rifle birdcage tore many guys' uniforms apart. It didn't take much, one month out there, my blue jeans weren't torn nor hurt as bad under my uniforms. Good old Levis pants made in California!

Response by 1SG James Kelly made May 30 at 2021 3:31 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 30 May 2021 15:31:07 -0400

Ask the 1SG he can help you out; at least it was that way when I was in.

Response by PO1 Scott Woodward made Jun 7 at 2021 3:25 PM

PO1 Scott Woodward — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 15:25:47 -0400

Reach down into your "LEADER" skills and tactfully find out WTH is going on and try to help the soldier. You asking about "Punishment" right out of the gate makes me lift an eyebrow.

Response by SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. made Jul 1 at 2021 5:06 PM

SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 17:06:01 -0400

Honestly the quick thinking and ingenuity deserves recognition. I'm an old army veteran but this troop adapted and overcome. Bravo, bravo!

Response by CPL Barrie D Davey made Jul 24 at 2021 4:19 AM

CPL Barrie D Davey — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 04:19:26 -0400

No,
Firstly, you keep saying SHE, the correct term is the soldier, (No Gender).
Secondly, the soldier did as commanded showed up for a ASU (whatever that might be (I am an English serviceman, still in uniform at 82. (forgive for not understanding you terms))) with their uniform.
Thirdly, It was you'r mistake for not stating "wearing"
Fourthly, they need promoting for showing initiative, they knew what you meant,, but turned it around and took you literally,, well done.

Fifthly, I would have said something like, “very good, well done, I appreciate the humour, Now return here in 15 mins wearing said uniform".

Response by Sgt Laura Campbell made Jul 24 at 2021 6:26 AM

Sgt Laura Campbell — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 06:26:33 -0400

If the soldier has been in less than a year, she may not be aware of all the policies & rules regarding uniforms. Remembering myself as a new airman who was shy & anxious with no friendly sergeants that I could ask questions of I would counsel the soldier, find out if there are other topics She needs to know about & inform her of where to find out her duties & responsibilities as a soldier, making sure she is clear that asking a question ahead of time costs less careerwise than blundering through at the last minute when there is no time for correction without a ding.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jul 25 at 2021 2:34 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 25 Jul 2021 02:34:25 -0400

After I returned from Vietnam and had gained some weight. I was underweight before that and We had an occasion not expected for the arrival of a Washington big shot We had to wear Class A blues, mine no longer fit. I had no idea until went to try it on that very day it no longer fit. Instead of standing out in the sun as We would have been doing Me and another guy in the same situation instead took a vehicle and went to a location across the other side of the runway to provide an observation there. The location was the Base Family Camp Recreational Vehicle area. We got to sit in the vehicle in the shade and had both restrooms and a small store with food and drinks next to us. They needed someone there but could in the process hide us as We both had to wear our short sleeve kaki uniforms instead of Class A Blue. No one gave either of us a hard time over that. Back then I was a Sgt and the other guy a SSgt. In the end run We had a lot better day than the guys in Class A Service dress. I did replace that uniform a quickly as I could after that experience and nobody gave us any grief over it.

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Aug 22 at 2021 1:17 PM

SPC John Tacetta — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 13:17:09 -0400

Simple. Extra duty, and get a uniform that fits. Unless she's a total balls up, UCMJ would only get in the way of purchasing a new uniform.

Honestly, I'm surprised she wasn't able to borrow a uniform from someone. No initiative.

Myself, I always liked to keep myself squared away and pretty much always made supernumerary.

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 22 at 2021 2:15 PM

Maj John Bell — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 14:15:08 -0400

Well... let's start with the first problem. Soldiers don't gain weight overnight. Does your unit have any sort of formalized monitoring. In my units we ran a inventory PFT every month, weigh-ins were part of the inventory. A gain in weight or a drop in PT performance should after 2-3 weigh-ins trigger the Chain of Command that trouble is coming down the track. A weight gain of 5-8% of total body weight is probably going to require uniform alterations. It appears the chain of command failed her.

Assumptions on my part...
1) There is no one between you and her in the chain of command.
2) She was not deliberately trying to piss you off.

I'd start with...
Explain this to me soldier.

If there is a valid reason (I'm having a hard time thinking of one.), deal with it in an appropriate manner and an appropriate timetable.

If there isn't a valid reason, same as above, deal with it in an appropriate manner and an appropriate time table. In addition, perform an official counseling. Without a significant awakening and a new found pro-active approach to a known problem, this soldier should not be promoted.

If my assumptions are not valid
_Counsel any leadership between you and the SPC. If the intermediate leadership is an NCO, make them come up with a solution and have them execute that solution. Also let that intermediate NCO leadership know that if they cannot carry the responsibilities of their leadership, admin reduction to a more appropriate rank and pay grade may be best for all.
_If she was deliberately trying to piss you off, make sure that she never again sees that as a desired outcome.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2021 5:13 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:13:05 -0400

You can't punish her nor can you force her to buy a new ASU. If she is with in regulation for H/W/T but the uniform no longer fits then she needs to go to supply and request a new uniform. A good leader would work with her to get her weight under control rather than immediately jump to punishment. You are supposed to mentor her and help her become a better soldier. Don't let your rank go to your head and forget where you came from. Help her help herself. If you can not do that then perhaps you should not be in a position of leadership. I've been in the army far too long and have seen far too many good soldiers go out because of poor leadership and I (myself included) have seen far too many soldiers get screwed over by "leadership".