3124565 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I am currently stationed at an in-between unit, where a Soldier graduates Basic Training, comes to DLI for a language, then goes to their AIT. The problem is, a Soldiers gets to me from basic training and fails their APFT with 50 points on the event. They have met the standard for Basic Training, but do not meet graduation requirements for AIT. However, the Soldier will not leave my unit for 64 weeks. At what point am I able to counsel and flag the Soldier, and later Chapter them out of the military. It is very clear in AR 600-9 that Soldiers get 180 day grace period for passing H&amp;W standards, but it says nothing about APFT. Has anyone had to deal with this issue, or have any better guidance? 2017-11-27T16:12:58-05:00 3124565

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I am currently stationed at an in-between unit, where a Soldier graduates Basic Training, comes to DLI for a language, then goes to their AIT. The problem is, a Soldiers gets to me from basic training and fails their APFT with 50 points on the event. They have met the standard for Basic Training, but do not meet graduation requirements for AIT. However, the Soldier will not leave my unit for 64 weeks. At what point am I able to counsel and flag the Soldier, and later Chapter them out of the military. It is very clear in AR 600-9 that Soldiers get 180 day grace period for passing H&amp;W standards, but it says nothing about APFT. Has anyone had to deal with this issue, or have any better guidance?

2017-11-27T16:12:58-05:00 2017-11-27T16:12:58-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 3124757

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Where you’re at isn’t their AIT? They spend 64 weeks with you before going to AIT, if I’m reading this right?<br /><br />AIT is where they’re mandated to meet those standards, so if you’re an “in between”, there’s probably no room for you to begin separation based on a standard that they’re not required to meet until the end of their AIT.<br /><br />I’d check for local policy because it’s outside of the norm for the majority.

2017-11-27T17:31:53-05:00 2017-11-27T17:31:53-05:00 PFC Elijah Rose 3126937

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Why are you considering chaptering him anyway? APFT standards are not so crucial to the mission that you&#39;d waste tens of thousands of training dollars if he doesn&#39;t pass imediately. I have met soldiers who had to lose over 100lbs just to enlist, but for some reason that is not considered an achievement.<br />(FYI I scored 250 last test).

2017-11-28T13:23:59-05:00 2017-11-28T13:23:59-05:00 SGT Luke Wooster 3126950

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>MI has alot of physical oddities regardless of branch. If the language is of importance to national security then fudge the APFT score and keep working with the soldier to improve the score. As an NCO give the soldier extra time and extra PT. Your career will depend on it! If the soldier fails you fail.

2017-11-28T13:29:45-05:00 2017-11-28T13:29:45-05:00 CPL Jack Baker 3126967

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Sack up and make PT a priority for all. You dont get out of pt , all are still in the army. Checkout CSM Daily&#39;s thoughts on pt. &quot;PT is not he most important thing you do all day in the army, it is the most importantthing you do everyday. &quot;

2017-11-28T13:34:31-05:00 2017-11-28T13:34:31-05:00 SFC Russ Chapman 3127065

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This isn&#39;t something new it&#39;s been going on for many years it&#39;s been addressed by many back in 2002 I once recommend a guy for chapter for failing his run by 3 seconds after months of training with him cutting several min off his failing run time just because he walked the last hundred meters on a APFT at some point they have take personal pride in them self to make a passing effort witch mean putting down the cellphone and x box controllers getting out on there own to make improvements as long as I know I did my part as a NCO I slept at night

2017-11-28T14:04:52-05:00 2017-11-28T14:04:52-05:00 SPC David Willis 3127736

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>64 weeks seems like plenty of time to get them in shape to get a 60/60/60. Do they not PT every morning before class? I don&#39;t believe they chapter people out of basic 6 weeks into it for failing the test when there are still 3 weeks left.

2017-11-28T17:51:22-05:00 2017-11-28T17:51:22-05:00 SPC Randall PeQueen 3127948

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think this should be done at MEPS and maintained until separation. PERIOD.

2017-11-28T18:50:35-05:00 2017-11-28T18:50:35-05:00 Sgt Dale Briggs 3128061

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Sorry, in my 4 year I never heard of a guy in my unit failing a PT test. Never. You&#39;d get punked, you&#39;d get laughed at, they&#39;d call you a pussy. Everyone passed their test , how hard is 3 pull-ups, 28 minute 3 mile run, sit ups? That minimum, if you can&#39;t do that get out unless your on profile or something unexpectedly happens like getting hit by a truck.

2017-11-28T19:42:15-05:00 2017-11-28T19:42:15-05:00 SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. 3128239

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It used to be covered in TRADOC Reg 350-6 back when I was a Drill Sgt in the late 80’s and early 90’s. No idea anymore. But even then, the Phase 4-5 standards were 60 in each event. Basic was 50 then too. But check 350-6 to see the counseling standards.

2017-11-28T20:47:52-05:00 2017-11-28T20:47:52-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 3128314

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Good grief, look if they aren&#39;t doing the things involved in the PT TEST in their workouts then that&#39;s a leaders problem. Most soldiers work on those specific things, not some workout you have planned. Give them time and counsel them, stress the importance. <br />Take the time to excercise with them and motivate them. They will get there. It only requires motivation. As leaders if we aren&#39;t helping our soldiers improve on their shortcomings then we aren&#39;t leading.

2017-11-28T21:07:19-05:00 2017-11-28T21:07:19-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 3128347

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>However if they&#39;ve had more than enough opportunity and are not atleast improving closer each time. I&#39;d say some action would be called for

2017-11-28T21:16:32-05:00 2017-11-28T21:16:32-05:00 LTC Dallas Powell 3128553

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Look at AR 350-1. For RA soldiers in their units, first failure means immediate counseling and flag, then the soldier must pass within 90 days of the first failure— all assuming no profiles. If soldier does not pass the second time, chapter paperwork starts.<br /><br />But read the reg closely, I think there are different guidelines for first termers in AIT.

2017-11-28T22:52:22-05:00 2017-11-28T22:52:22-05:00 SFC Sam Yang 3128591

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>From what I recall, each unit/training station has their own SOP on this matter. It is regulated and mandated by the Unit commander. They are still technically in training status and does not fall under the standard which they are required to meet until the end of their training phase. They will need to meet all APFT standards upon PCSing into AIT or a new UNIT after completion of their MOS requirements.<br /><br />This is, of course, a sad state of affairs for a new recruit to fail APFT and it is a sad reflection both on the Basic training unit and the individual soldier.

2017-11-28T23:13:27-05:00 2017-11-28T23:13:27-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 3129078

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;m willing to bet tradoc has a specific regulation for this

2017-11-29T06:28:48-05:00 2017-11-29T06:28:48-05:00 PV2 Duane Schlender 3130401

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Personally.. As a veteran who struggled with pt, i can honestly say diet and excercise knowledge were what failed me.<br />Had i understood things better, i might not have struggled so badly.<br />My specific proble. Was not understanding my insane metabolism. I was losing body mass and couldn&#39;t figure out why I wasnt gaining.<br /><br />Might take time to review diet and excercise knowledge with struggling apft soldiers. It would probably help tremendously.

2017-11-29T13:23:37-05:00 2017-11-29T13:23:37-05:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 3130759

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>that is why you send them to the nutritionist. They may have to do a complete blood work done. check for everything including celiac disease it plays a big roll in their diet. The RD will give them a menu plan and they have to follow it. also, check if they are taking medication that WILL affect weight gain. This is the problem with NCO they think they health and athletic expert when they are not.

2017-11-29T15:28:23-05:00 2017-11-29T15:28:23-05:00 SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood 3130861

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>i&#39;m confused as to why you are looking for ways to chapter and bar the soldier as the military made their own faults by letting people advance on standards just to keep the force alive,i think the answer lies in the fact that you are a NCO and part of being a NCO is to train soldiers and PT is a part of training,if the soldier is not responding to remedial training then i agree to get rid of them,but if they are a good soldier and is wanting to train then i feel his NCO chain failed him.I think the Army really should re-evaluate who is truly fit for military service and not waste valuable $&#39;s on training to have them fail in the end due to pt.just my 2 cents

2017-11-29T16:08:17-05:00 2017-11-29T16:08:17-05:00 SGM Juan Ocasio-Rodriguez 4160954

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Requirement was APFT BCT 50 points, AIT 60 points. You must give them PT at least 3 times a week, it is you responsability. Check them every week, you must trained them, you are an NCO it is you responsibility. They failed you failed, you should be discharged.

2018-11-26T20:21:11-05:00 2018-11-26T20:21:11-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 4160991

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I cant tell you what to do active duty as it was different when I was released from active in 2010. Unfortunately the only actions I can take National Guard side is flag the soldier and wait until they have to reup and make sure they can&#39;t.

2018-11-26T20:46:24-05:00 2018-11-26T20:46:24-05:00 Cpl Clinton Britt 4162537

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You lead mentor and help the soldier or Marine excell with his PT. It isnt that hard. Remedial Pt, led by motivated NCO.<br />Granted there is only so much you can do.<br />Why are we booting out people that just might need a little extra training. If that fails, the the service person probably wanted out anyway.

2018-11-27T10:46:28-05:00 2018-11-27T10:46:28-05:00 A1C Leland Kowal 4162572

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Wait wait wait, so you managed to find someone smart enough to score a 90+ on the ASVAB, 110+ on the DLAB, and you want to kick them out because they fall through an administrative crack? Also I get it, different branch different rules, but I find it very hard to believe that someone could pass basic training and then fail a PT test

2018-11-27T11:05:06-05:00 2018-11-27T11:05:06-05:00 Cpl Dan A. 4162761

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Almost all Marines out of Parris Island in &#39;04 and at SOI or MCT were doing 10+ pullups, 100 crunches in under 2 minutes and a 25 minute or faster 3 mile run... many many above that standard, that was average. How out of shape can you get in a couple months? Is Army basic THAT soft now?

2018-11-27T12:23:03-05:00 2018-11-27T12:23:03-05:00 Cpl Dan A. 4162771

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In Pensacola we ran 5 PFTs a week for a while for the whole unit for PT. 20 PFTs a month for 2 months and most of us were high 1st class USMC PFT scorers.

2018-11-27T12:25:29-05:00 2018-11-27T12:25:29-05:00 SFC Jimmy Williams 4162991

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I am admittedly a dinosaur. My years were 1973 to 1995. But we had to meet the same standards from basic trainee to CSM. If you could not meet minimum standards by the end of basic, you went to the STC, special training company, and did physical and supplementary military training until you passed or were discharged. And every base had a STC were troops could be sent who failed PT tests or had disciplinary problems. It normally only took one time at STC to fix a soldier with an attitude. If soldiers right out of basic can&#39;t pass the APFT, there is a systemic problem with the training.

2018-11-27T14:11:01-05:00 2018-11-27T14:11:01-05:00 SPC Justin Niles 4163198

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is the gray area that soldier is not done with initial training yet but stress the importance of pt and work hard to improve their pt score before AIT

2018-11-27T15:41:03-05:00 2018-11-27T15:41:03-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 4163375

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is your time as an NCO to build that soldier up not just kick them out because it takes effort. They just went through basic they still don’t know what it is to be a soldier or be in the army.

2018-11-27T16:58:15-05:00 2018-11-27T16:58:15-05:00 SFC Anthony Richardson 4163622

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have been a Drill Sgt in BCT and OSUT. It is your job as an NCO to continue the process that began in basic. These folks are in the process of becoming soldiers. They are not there yet. They have met the standard to graduate from BCT. You must help them to meet the standard for AIT. We always believed if your soldier failed, you failed. NCO&#39;s are trainers. It is our job to prepare our soldiers for whatever our country needs them to do. Kicking someone out is the easy way out. Work with these kids and get them ready for whatever comes their way.

2018-11-27T18:15:47-05:00 2018-11-27T18:15:47-05:00 SGT Michael Hartman 4163825

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I did 20 years in the Army and National Guard. In that time I had a lot of times when I would not do so well at APFT. There was a lot of retesting. A lot. You have these soldiers for 64 weeks. It is certainly possible to get them to standard in a fraction of that time.

2018-11-27T20:31:57-05:00 2018-11-27T20:31:57-05:00 SrA Private RallyPoint Member 4164345

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As somebody who attended DLI (albeit as air force) i can tell you right now, that soldier probably has enough on their plate with learning their language. Work with them. Better them. Get them to the standards they need to be at. Adding stress for the sake of &quot;hooah pt hooah&quot; is probably going to get them to pass the pt test yeah, but then theyll just be chaptered out for failing because it might be their first real responsibility. The linguist nerd stereotype exists for a reason.<br />HOWEVER if the soldier is failing because they don&#39;t care or show an effort then by all means kick them to the curb. We don&#39;t need them. <br />If they meet Basic training requirements and struggled to get there, keep them struggling in a constructive way to reach the AIT standards. The trick is finding out who&#39;s there to play fkfk games and who&#39;s there to do their job. Help them where its necessary, reasonable, and applicable. They&#39;re still relatively new to the military life. It&#39;s our duty to mold them and shape them before we scrap them. Sometimes the clay sucks and you have to scrap it before you can even mold it. Case by case I&#39;d say.

2018-11-28T02:04:49-05:00 2018-11-28T02:04:49-05:00 Cpl Rc Layne 4164568

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;d be willing to bet that a little investigating would show that up until they got to you, their passing was based on wink wink, nod nod, nudge nudge.

2018-11-28T04:04:55-05:00 2018-11-28T04:04:55-05:00 TSgt John LaBelle 4165046

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Fitness tests are overrated and are not necessary for all military career fields. Served 24 years. MOS’s 29M, 75F, AFSC 4N. With any of those jobs never had to lift more than 90lbs. Communication systems, IT networks and medical care are a major priority. Comparison wise PT for combat careers proportionally to job skills should be 50/50. Electronic techs, IT, personnel, admin, supply and medical (with the exception of SF) 80/20.

2018-11-28T08:25:56-05:00 2018-11-28T08:25:56-05:00 SPC Christopher Renkel 4165553

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I could be wrong but I thought the requirements were 50 points in each event to graduate BCT and you take a record at the end of AIT where you have to meet the standard of 60 points in each event. From my understanding all tests in between the BCT test and the one at the end of AIT are diagnostics.

2018-11-28T11:50:25-05:00 2018-11-28T11:50:25-05:00 PVT Mark Zehner 4165768

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Things have changed so much we did pt 6 days a week and we&#39;re encouraged to go to the gym or do something on Sundays! Our NCO&#39;S had a zero tolerance for failure and would work with a soldier non stop till he past the test! Yeah I&#39;m old we only had makes in our unit

2018-11-28T12:56:28-05:00 2018-11-28T12:56:28-05:00 SFC David Cochran 4166311

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Soldier not passing the APFT Is not new. Being a Drill Sgt in an AIT UNIT. We had Soldier from all branch of...Young and Old that couldn&#39;t pass the test for all reason..When we group people&#39;s together with a set standed test ... Someone will always fall...That the law of nature.

2018-11-28T15:28:25-05:00 2018-11-28T15:28:25-05:00 SGT Gabriel Hayes 4166771

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ignore SGM Juan Ocasii-Rodriguez.....there comes a time when soldiers need to accept responsibility for their actions....the reason they fail is that they dont care enough to actually put forth the effort to pass...babysitting troops is why you have Senior NCOS blaming someone other than the failing soldiers because these &quot;Senior NCOS&quot; were coddled and not held accountable....so the horrific tragedy continues and now we have new troops that have no respect for rank...

2018-11-28T18:13:11-05:00 2018-11-28T18:13:11-05:00 SFC Michael Robison 4166868

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have a question for you. Have you looked at the Army PT Manual; FM 21-20? IM PRETTY SURE ALL regulations on APFT standards to include chapter criteria are in there! <br /><br />I know I learned about that and how to reference it in PLDC, again in BNCOC, and visited it in ANCOC... even as an 18B... <br /><br />Have you tried to reference it yourself? Then have you looked at the training units Policy Letters and talked to the Commander there? <br /><br />In my opinion, if there is a Training unit, who cannot keep their Troops in shape, there is a problem with that unit! <br /><br />Before some of you try to blast me about how people don’t try and the Army is softer. Well my wife is still in, she is a Medic, and she doesn’t seem to have a problem keeping Combat troops in line... sometimes, respect is earned even if your rank demands it!

2018-11-28T19:09:13-05:00 2018-11-28T19:09:13-05:00 SGM Juan Ocasio-Rodriguez 4166906

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Your situation is difficult, language training used to be after you graduate fron AIT and had an MOS. Check Tradoc 350-1 it nay give you some light. The Army makes crazzy things like this a lot and you paid the price. I served from 1972-2006, good luck.

2018-11-28T19:37:37-05:00 2018-11-28T19:37:37-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 4166992

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Make pt daily for all soldiers your the NCO if they fail it’s your job to correct it and make them a better soldier not just give up they failed because you failed them as a NCO

2018-11-28T20:15:13-05:00 2018-11-28T20:15:13-05:00 SPC Gary Welch 4167073

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Simple fix if they can&#39;t pass just out of basic training kick thier butt out because if they can&#39;t pass right out of basic training they are probably a ragbag anyway

2018-11-28T20:39:18-05:00 2018-11-28T20:39:18-05:00 MSG Scott McBride 4167109

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I dont think RP is the medium to find ypur answer. As a senior NonComm, your power to shape these junior Soldiers is vast and Vital! Your superiors, ARs, FMs, TCs are your guides. Handle it. I find it disturbing that so many Sr. NCOs are posting questions about how to handle the most basic indiscipline and Soldier fundamentals. Failing APFTs and HT/WT especially. We still have a Creed right?

2018-11-28T20:56:49-05:00 2018-11-28T20:56:49-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 4168690

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Should they not still be graded on 50% standard seeing as they have not started AIT yet?

2018-11-29T11:36:59-05:00 2018-11-29T11:36:59-05:00 1SG Roland Huson 4168698

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I was once a Private at DLI. At 6’6” and 180 lbs. I had long, lanky arms and a tremendous deficit of upper-body strength. I also failed every diagnostic PT test I took while attending the German Basic Course from 1988-1989. Every. Single. One. This despite the fact that I could run 2 miles in under 12 minutes and max my sit-ups at 1:10-1:25 I was on special population PT 6 days a week and no improvement...always between 37 and 40 push-ups before I collapsed in the dirt on hilltop track (I hear it’s much nicer now). Two things kept me from being chaptered as a PT failure: my sixth-month record was a squeak-by and was given right after block leave for Christmas exodus, and my graduation record occurred after a week of grad-status...DLPT prep and testing with no formations or PT. I felt super lucky that I pulled it off, but later realized that luck had nothing to do with it. RECOVERY did. If the PT program at DLI is anything like it was the three times I attended (German Basic, Russian Basic and Intermediate between 1988 and 1995), it is a group smoke-session generally led by a student or cadre NCO. While this is great fun for the instructor, it isn’t necessarily to the best benefit of the IET soldier and the repeated failure of said soldier might just have less to do with their being a “shit-bag” than you think. This is where that individualized approach can pay dividends. The question you should be asking isn’t how do I go about chaptering this soldier out, but how do I go about saving them. My career was almost over before it began because an SFC cadre member assumed that I was a “shit-bag” because I couldn’t do 42 push-ups at the age of 18. That experience thought me more about how not to be a leader than any other.

2018-11-29T11:39:23-05:00 2018-11-29T11:39:23-05:00 SFC Stanley Wood 4168772

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You as a senior NCO should have set up a PT program for all your soldiers, and additional PT for your failed soldiers. It&#39;s a part of your job, you were taught this in PLDC, BNCOC, and ANCOC.

2018-11-29T12:21:43-05:00 2018-11-29T12:21:43-05:00 SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member 4169726

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I deal with this weekly as a AIT Drill Sergeant. I’ve spoke with CIMT this week and they are aware of the conflicting regulations as of TRADOC 350-6 vs. AR 350-1 and TRADOC 350-6. CIMT and TRADOC are currently trying to revise AR 350-1 to resolve the issue at hand. Currently as per AR 350-1, ch. 3, para 3-13, sub para (3), i, this policy does not apply to IMT etc. This one sentence in the regulation what’s allowing subpar Soldiers to continue to their first duty station without passing an APFT or meeting the Army height and weight screening/ body composition program.

2018-11-29T18:33:45-05:00 2018-11-29T18:33:45-05:00 1stSgt Frank Dow 4169766

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The better question is why do we have 2 standards between basic and ait? All this does is set soldiers up for failure

2018-11-29T18:48:47-05:00 2018-11-29T18:48:47-05:00 SSG Phillip Grounds 4169804

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When I was at DLI, several troops failed the PT test. I max-ed it and was ask to train those who failed. Being SF, I knew how to train troops. They all passed. They were REQUIRED to attend each PT session. If they didn&#39;t they were disciplined. If they failed to try they were disciplined. They bitched and moaned but that bought them another lap or more wind sprints or more push-ups. Anyone can be trained, first they have to be motivated. But not anyone can be a trainer. If you can&#39;t do it, delegate to someone who can. Be the leader that they want to please.<br />Good luck.

2018-11-29T19:01:34-05:00 2018-11-29T19:01:34-05:00 SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales 4169961

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Pt in the morning and make up pt program after duty hours..

2018-11-29T20:24:55-05:00 2018-11-29T20:24:55-05:00 SPC Gregory Mccorkle 4170023

<div class="images-v2-count-1"><div class="content-picture image-v2-number-1" id="image-285415"> <div class="social_icons social-buttons-on-image"> <a href='https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fwhat-reference-addresses-whether-initial-entry-soldiers-are-required-to-pass-a-record-apft-for-in-the-first-180-days%3Futm_source%3DFacebook%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_campaign%3DShare%20to%20facebook' target="_blank" class='social-share-button facebook-share-button'><i class="fa fa-facebook-f"></i></a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=What+reference+addresses+whether+Initial+Entry+Soldiers+are+required+to+pass+a+record+APFT+for+in+the+first+180+days%3F&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fwhat-reference-addresses-whether-initial-entry-soldiers-are-required-to-pass-a-record-apft-for-in-the-first-180-days&amp;via=RallyPoint" target="_blank" class="social-share-button twitter-custom-share-button"><i class="fa fa-twitter"></i></a> <a href="mailto:?subject=Check this out on RallyPoint!&body=Hi, I thought you would find this interesting:%0D%0AWhat reference addresses whether Initial Entry Soldiers are required to pass a record APFT for in the first 180 days?%0D%0A %0D%0AHere is the link: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-reference-addresses-whether-initial-entry-soldiers-are-required-to-pass-a-record-apft-for-in-the-first-180-days" target="_blank" class="social-share-button email-share-button"><i class="fa fa-envelope"></i></a> </div> <a class="fancybox" rel="9d58c65258af5c22f590b8c30b5bbb68" href="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/285/415/for_gallery_v2/199459b0.jpg"><img src="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/285/415/large_v3/199459b0.jpg" alt="199459b0" /></a></div></div>

2018-11-29T20:48:24-05:00 2018-11-29T20:48:24-05:00 PFC Private RallyPoint Member 4170190

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Most of the NCOS in my unit take there pt test not with us but with each other. Also they dont want to do pt in the morning they make excuses for it like putting training at 0500, and we dont star the training until 0900. When I told them that we must do pt because is a regulation they said that is not. Ncos think that we are ruining the army but is them they suck at there jobs..

2018-11-29T21:49:42-05:00 2018-11-29T21:49:42-05:00 SGM Juan Ocasio-Rodriguez 4170295

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Tradoc 350-1

2018-11-29T22:37:38-05:00 2018-11-29T22:37:38-05:00 SGM Juan Ocasio-Rodriguez 4170300

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Must be MOSQ, AIT

2018-11-29T22:38:35-05:00 2018-11-29T22:38:35-05:00 CPL Melissa Williams 4170345

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>So, I&#39;ve been out awhile (cough, 10+ yrs), and even at my biggest (overweight) and laziest I could still pass PT, for male standards (and I&#39;m female). Seems regs and standards have fallen too much, in my opinion. I wouldn&#39;t blame my NCO&#39;s for my failure. If you want it bad enough, you work for it. To me, it falls on the individual.

2018-11-29T23:06:27-05:00 2018-11-29T23:06:27-05:00 SSG Julian Nicholson 4170394

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I recommend that you seek guidance through your chain of command on this matter. If your chain of command does not want to pursue the soldier then let it go and do your best to lead the soldier by example. As for this forum I would avoid asking leadership questions here. The vast majority of comments in response to your query provide little or no valuable feedback. Moreover many of them are judge mental and painful to read due to their lack intellect and or writing skills. <br />Good luck and thank you for your service.

2018-11-29T23:40:16-05:00 2018-11-29T23:40:16-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 4170514

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Here 1st failed APFT is flagged and if they fail next one that is when chapter paperwork is pushed

2018-11-30T00:59:11-05:00 2018-11-30T00:59:11-05:00 PO1 Michael Moe 4170554

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>After consoling them, Bounce them if they don’t show improvement.

2018-11-30T01:37:45-05:00 2018-11-30T01:37:45-05:00 CSM Jeffrey Brown 4171168

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Tradoc Reg 350-6 outlines APFT requirements for IET Soldiers. I am not surprised to here this happening at the DLI. The only time I have been there was in 1998 to testify at a court martial. I corrected a Soldier for not saluting a Major and the Major informed that they did not enforce military courtesies because it detracted from the Soldiers ability to focus on there studies. Biggest bunch of garbage I have ever heard. So maybe PT is considered a distraction as well.

2018-11-30T08:59:41-05:00 2018-11-30T08:59:41-05:00 Col Larry Huffman 4171197

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Soldiers, especially senior NCOs, who make excuses for a failed PFT .... just wrong. Something is wrong with basic trading.

2018-11-30T09:11:39-05:00 2018-11-30T09:11:39-05:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 4171548

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When I went through Basic, we had the same standard as post- MOSQ Soldiers. Our basic was 8 weeks.<br /><br />Raise the APFT standard to the same level as post MOSQ Soldiers and the problem will be mitigated.<br /><br />If the Drill can&#39;t get them to standard, the Drill Sergeant failed.<br /><br />To assist that, recruiters cannot pass the buck by bringing in anybody. In thus time of a reduction of forces the recruiter must be a little more selective. Civilians who are marshmallows and get the idea that they can become John Wayne, Audie Murphy, or Rambo by watching movies and entering the Army has to stop. The Recruiters are the first line of defense. They are the tip of the spear.<br /><br />APFT standards should be the same from MEPS, through zero week, Basic, AIT, and any other schooling. Make the standard consistent all the way through and don&#39;t adjust for sub-par performance.

2018-11-30T11:38:05-05:00 2018-11-30T11:38:05-05:00 Cpl Gabe Houston 4172580

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Get that sand out of their clitoris and have them run like Marines do. <br />3 miles in the morning and 3 miles in the pm. <br />A ruck ( weighted) hike once a week in a medium to fast pace.

2018-11-30T19:21:33-05:00 2018-11-30T19:21:33-05:00 SGT Frank Allen 4172679

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I was a student at DLI in the early 1980’s. Wow, I’m old! The problem was, back then the courses were so intense and we were in class all day and the lavademoc pace was soooo intense until we had to study in groups all evening and then back to the grind the next morning. We turned to flab in the 15 months at DLI. We didn’t have an NCOIC, as such. We had civilian instructors and an E7 that helped us keep our feces in one sock. Way back then the ARPFT and weight in height requirements or not as astringent as now. But that’s a lot of money spent in training, after basic training, and then language training… while in the army I never thought of cost, But after I got in the real world that became a factor. And I think somehow our military needs to be aware of throwing money away. Just my two cents worth…

2018-11-30T20:20:04-05:00 2018-11-30T20:20:04-05:00 SGT Mark Roningen 4172763

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I’m a dinosaur grunt from 88 to 91 but to not get the minimum 180 on the PT test you must be a fat body. We had a fit to fight program n if you didn’t get a 270 you were on remedial PT. That was infantry but if you can’t pass a PT test you aren’t fit to be in. I’m 49 n could still pass the 18 yo standards. Must be some real doughboys in. Maybe too many stress cards n donuts.

2018-11-30T21:25:55-05:00 2018-11-30T21:25:55-05:00 PV2 Michael Whiddon 4174306

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I went to AITwith a bunch of DLI graduates back in 2008. All of them could do PT. They even talked about what it was like to run there because of how foggy it would get. So like... what the hell happened? Does DLI no longer enforce the Army standard?

2018-12-01T16:09:49-05:00 2018-12-01T16:09:49-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 4174357

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>AR 635-200 addresses unsatisfactory performance for Soldiers with less than 180 days of service. TRADOC 350-6 also has guidance related to IET Soldiers that applies to most IETs, and if not most local command policies have mirrored it in their policies.

2018-12-01T16:40:05-05:00 2018-12-01T16:40:05-05:00 2017-11-27T16:12:58-05:00