What's the best advice you have for service-members trying to decide if they should reenlist or pursue a civilian career?

2021-07-07T13:43:31-04:00

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2021 1:51 PM

2021-07-07T13:51:22-04:00

SrA Private RallyPoint Member Plenty of research on available options. If there is a spouse, he or she should be part of the decision making process.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 7 at 2021 1:55 PM

2021-07-07T13:55:48-04:00

I have used this methodology before. It is a systematic approach to decision making and brings clarity to the situation. https://airfocus.com/blog/weighted-decision-matrix-prioritization/

Weighted Decision Matrix: A Tool For Pro-Level Prioritization

The weighted decision matrix is a powerful technique to prioritize what you should focus on when you have many options. Build your own or use a template.

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Jul 7 at 2021 1:55 PM

2021-07-07T13:55:52-04:00

If you are going to leave, make sure you have a definite job/career when you get out. DOn't think things will work out.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2021 2:06 PM

2021-07-07T14:06:50-04:00

Based on your profile and rank you are at the point of a very wide decision point in your life. Your tree of life has not branch off too far down the path you are limited. You don't have a significant amount invested in your time in the military, and you can do just about anything.

My word of advice. Follow your heart. I didn't. I always took the logical safe path in my employment, and it led me to a career of frustration and pointlessness. Then when I did enlist at 38 I barely got in, and realized I'd would clearly have been far more successful with a military path (the one I wanted since I was a little kid) and been nearing retirement age at that point anyway.

My lot in life is about the same economically either way but I would have maybe felt better in my mind/heart if I just went down a path I had really always wanted instead of chasing professional credentials in an effort to make the most money.

The military itself as an employer is losing more and more traction between what it offers to its members and what can be earned with the same skill sets on the outside. You are generally not leaving behind a better economic situation with better working conditions if your skill set is in demand.

If it's in your heart to stay, then by all means stay. If you are there just to earn a paycheck and benefits, well you are doing so with scenarios that limit you greatly (deployments, military life as a lower enlisted, etc...) that you don't need to be burdened with while making no less in the civilian sector.

The upside with the new retirement plan is you can ponder this situation a little while longer, and take a large portion of your nest egg if you wait it out. You wont be faced with all or nothing at 15 years.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jul 7 at 2021 2:55 PM

2021-07-07T14:55:40-04:00

People may join the military for any number of reasons but they only stay for one. They discover a "calling". Yes, I suppose it's much like the clergy. You're not there for the money. It's not convenient. Most of the times its thankless. But there's something that calls you. If you don't hear it, it's time to move on

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2021 4:28 PM

2021-07-07T16:28:56-04:00

The best advice I would have would be:

Make a plan and stick to it. Don't overthink it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2021 4:51 PM

2021-07-07T16:51:29-04:00

My advice is to make the decision from a place of experience and knowledge, not from what you "think" you know about on the civilian side.

If you entered the military later in life, then you have some experience on what to expect when you separate. You know what to expect in the job hunt difficulty, you know all the unexpected expenses, upfront costs of relocating, the possible months of unemployment before you land a decent job, job interview skills, faux pas, and all that.

If you entered the military out of high school then you really haven't spent much time of your life not having a babysitter yet. Seek out a retiree or someone who separated recently for their advice. You just don't know what you don't know, so you don't know all the normal complications that will come when you switch careers.

You do currently have a career right now, and you can expect that to walk into any other career field you will need to invest time and money to be qualified in certs to be on par with you civilian peers, and expect that you will usually start at a lower pay than you are in the military.

Do a real budget analysis. If you are living in the barracks you may think you are not receiving much money, but there is a real cost to housing as a civilian. Don't forget to calculate for taxes, health insurance, and housing costs. These are real expenses and they don't just work out on their own.

Do not walk out of a job that pays you consistently and into the unknown if you have debt. Any transition requires a decent amount of money set aside. Even though the military will pay you to move, there is always extra money you need to have up front. A shoestring budget is $5,000 assuming you are single and have no dependents. If you have a family, you need more. If you leave the military with debt, it's a fair assumption you lack the self discipline to control your spending and it doesn't get easier when you take away your primary source of income.

Are you single? You can travel the world when you are single, but when you have dependents you have more financial responsibilities. I left the Army as a 21 year old with no spouse or kids and I moved around between living on a ski resort and living in Alaska until I got married. Every time I moved I was completely broke, I lived in tents and dorms, lived off eggs, potatoes and other campfire foods. I didn't even have a vehicle. But once I had a family I had to keep a steady source of income, and health insurance. I rejoined the Army just as my second daughter was born and I knew it was the most reliable source of income for me at the time with my skill set.

Don't leave the military without the most education you can get. Too many people say they will get out and go to college, but they don't. VA surveys show that 50-75% of people who separate will have unexpected financial issues in college. A large percent of service members never finish college at all. But the worst part is, they are spending their GI Bill on something the services offer for free. College isn't easier just because you're going full time. You are either in the military full time and going to college part time, or in college full time and working part time to pay for your daily life expenses. Max out your college before you leave, or at least take as much as you can before leaving.

Spend at least a year on your transition. Make the decision long before it's time to make the decision and spend your last year prepping to get out. If you are a year from ETS and don't have a solid plan yet, then stay where you are at, extend or reenlist, and keep going to your next location after that.

Response by A1C Chris Pointer made Jul 7 at 2021 6:59 PM

2021-07-07T18:59:58-04:00

That’s a tough one cause life takes many paths and has its ups and downs regardless.

What I like to do is write where I want to be in 4 years then make a flow chart going backwards to the point I am now. I’ll have a bunch of different timelines and alternate realities. I’ll then look at which one most closely aligns with my goals and take that path and try to stay on it

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 7 at 2021 9:07 PM

2021-07-07T21:07:51-04:00

I will say that should you seek advice on this particular topic it needs to from those who know you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2021 12:47 AM

2021-07-08T00:47:09-04:00

Here it is.

This post is for my fellow Soldiers that are fed up with the Army in their own way and are calling it quits. I am not a retention NCO, I just want to share my experiences so that you do not feel alone. If you've already made up your mind, then I wish you all the best. But listen up.

A little about me and my nearly 17 year career as a Soldier.

I joined the Army in Dec 1999 on the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) and shipped off to One Station Unit Training (OSUT) two months later at Fort Leonard Wood, MO with a 12B (Combat Engineer) recruit contract at 20 years of age with a follow on assignment to Germany.

From there, I spent three years with one of the best units and people (minus a few douchbags) the Army has to offer. Deployed to Gjlani, Kosovo for KFOR mission (Task Force Falcon) and supported the capture and arrest of former President of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia Slobodon Molosevic, who was responsible for thousands of crimes against humanity and ethnic cleansing of entire villages of innocent women, men, and children.

After my three years were up in Germany, I ETS'd the Army and joined the Virginia Army National Guard for one year where I was reactivated to active duty for Operation Noble Eagle. All of this while attending college in the hopes of earning a commission in the military, but had to change my plans due to this reactivation.

After my one year of National Guard time, I again left the military with two DD-214's in hand from the regular Army as well as the National Guard. And two separate Honorable Discharges.

I worked for my father on and off for a short while as an auto mechanic, and also worked for DirecTV as an installation tech, until they screwed me out of my pay since I got paid by the job and NOT hourly or salary. Left, and worked for my father again while deciding what the hell I wanted to do with my life and support myself and my wife.

Got another job as a Nuclear Security Officer with Northrop Grumman Shipbuilding while using my G.I Bill to attend night class eventually earning my Assiciates degree 15 months later. Now almost finished with my Bachelor's degree in Intelligence Studies. All of this while also drilling as an Army Reservist for two years at Fort Eustis, VA.

2008, I was laid off from Northrop Grumman due to economic recession. Found another job with Bank of America as a debt collector breaking peoples hearts everyday. That job did not pay enough for the souls I was crushing on a daily basis. And needed to find something more meaningful with better and more stable income.

Decided in 2008, hey I'm 29 years old and I cannot decide where the hell I will be heading if I stick with the path I am on. And decided to (you guessed it) rejoin the military. So to the Army Recruiters office in Yorktown, VA I went.

Signed a contract to reclassify from 12B to COMSEC and Radio Equipment Repairer (94E). After a six month A.I.T at Fort Gordon, GA in 2009, I was sent to the 3rd Infantry Division, 3CAB out of Hunter Army Airfield, Savannah, GA for three years and deployed to Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan from 2009-2010.

I was a 30 year old E-4 taking orders from people much younger than I and less life experience (not a big deal). I desperately continued trying to move up in rank and doing everything I absolutely could to make the maxed out 798 points needed for E-5. These 798 points stuck for three years. So guess what, I reclassed to ANOTHER occupation. This time Intelligence Analyst (35F) with a one year follow on assignment to South Korea.

After A.I.T in Arizona in 2012, I was immediately promoted to Sergeant as I held promotable status for THREE YEARS!

A year later I was promoted to Staff Sergeant.

Was assigned with Africa Command in Germany for four years (2014-2018). Loved it!

After Germany, I was sent to Fort Hood and was promoted to Sergeant First Class.

Left Fort Hood after 18 months and resent back to Fort Huachuca where I have now been for two years and have held a few interesting positions and am loving life and am with an outstanding unit.

The moral of my little career bio, is that even with all the good and the bad, the horrible asshats (but mostly great) I've had to work with throughout the years, I did what I had to do to control my career.

Stop victimizing yourselves.

Do not think getting out of the Army is going to solve all of your issues, because it may OR it may not. If getting promoted is causing your frustration, then do what you need to do to get promoted and earn more money and more respect if that is what you are looking for. BE PATIENT!!! Every policy in the Army is there for a reason, such as what rank you need to be to earn certain privelages. Go get that rank, go get that assignment, and focus on yourself while continuing to be a team player with your fellow Soldiers.

Response by 1SG Jacob Brannan made Jul 8 at 2021 3:45 PM

2021-07-08T15:45:04-04:00

This decision is going to vary greatly from person to person and they have to do what they believe is best for both them and their Family. It can't be a snap decision. If you choose to hang up the uniform, start preparing 24 months out. Your transition can't start the day you sign out on terminal leave. From a retired NCO perspective, staying a day over 20 isn't smart. Quality of life, work/life balance, income, and happiness all improve after leaving. NCO's are overworked and underpaid compared to our commissioned counterparts so do yourself a favor and rock the civilian life.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 8 at 2021 4:49 PM

2021-07-08T16:49:39-04:00

You either like the lifestyle or you don’t, it’s really as simple as that. It’s certainly not everyone’s thing, but neither is healthcare or the clergy. I think it’s a bit unfair that officers can resign their commission at anytime, but Enlisted have to finish their contracted time.

Response by SGT Josh Beers made Jul 9 at 2021 5:38 AM

2021-07-09T05:38:37-04:00

I can say when i came into my re-enlistment window at 8 years, i looked at staying in and making it a career or getting out and pursuing the civilian side law enforcement job. I was expecting the same level of camaraderie in civilian LEO as i experienced in the Military LEO field. Huge difference. Looking back and having it to do over, I would have stayed in and did the 20 and then figured out the civilian side. Best of luck in whatever decision you make. Only you know what is right for you!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2021 2:47 PM

2021-07-09T14:47:02-04:00

I am finally retiring after 23 yrs in Dec. Everyone has a different reason for staying in or getting out but for me it was the people. I was surrounded by some of the best people I have ever met and got to enjoy life in a way I would have never been able to if I did not stay in. Yes, deployments suck but they also have their good points. Having to put out fires or crisis is a another pain but when done there is hopefully a feeling of accomplishment. You get to really know people serving side by side day after day. They become your family. The military for me became the family business, there were older brothers and sisters looking out for you and there was also horsing around with my younger siblings and peers. Being part of a team that turns into a family and looking out for each other is what made me stay in. When it is no longer fun is when it is time to go. Find what makes you happy.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2021 3:53 PM

2021-07-09T15:53:57-04:00

I once wanted to give the corps twenty. Now I’m getting out in January. Am I still going to serving? Yes as a reservist for the time being. I’m chasing a dream of being a officer in the armed forces finally and I have the experience to help shape and mold others to be better.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2021 3:56 PM

2021-07-09T15:56:39-04:00

Just be honest with yourself and don't forget your family. They're apart of the mission too and what's best for you may not be what's best for them. The military offers stability that is incomparable to most career fields. It's up to you to decide if you keep going. If you don't enjoy the army then you need something new, otherwise toxic mentality is bred and ruins you from the inside and out.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2021 4:59 PM

2021-07-09T16:59:25-04:00

I joined late in life(29)so for me I had already experience a decade of civilian life. This was a childhood dream to serve and I signed up thinking 1 contract. Now that I’m in I see so many benefits to staying in. I lived paycheck to paycheck and struggled so much. My parents had to buy Xmas toys for my kids one year. But now I am completely debt free, paid off 1 car, bought a new one and I take actual vacations and trips. The military is what you make it but it can be absolutely rewarding if you can get past the bs. Just know civilian life is just as stupid and full of hypocrisy but now you must pay for everything.

Response by LTC Richard Cassem made Jul 11 at 2021 4:54 PM

2021-07-11T16:54:37-04:00

I would recommend reenlisting as long as you enjoy your work and are proud of what you do. If either of those change, then it is time to move on to something new.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2021 2:12 AM

2021-07-13T02:12:05-04:00

After being in for 13 years active US Army, I did not want to reenlist just to go back to Korea, got out as a E6 / SSG. I had worked with private industry during my active service on military programs and an opportunity to work for one presented itself. I took a 19 year gap, and when I thought about going back in to the National Guard to finish up my 7 years and get my retirement, I still felt like I could be of value and service, also I did miss the comradery. So know I am a E7 / SFC and I have learned,
performed and achieved more duties then I expected and will receive retirement pay for that rank in 5 months (Jan 2022) having completed 20 years of honorable service. If I could stay in I would, however I have reached the age restriction, you see on January 30, 2022 I turn 60 years old. Best decision I ever made was returning to service and supporting my country!

Response by LCpl David Tatro made Aug 25 at 2021 6:08 PM

2021-08-25T18:08:58-04:00

Think long and hard about whether to get out or reenlist. I EAS'ed in 1992 when I was 22 years old. Enlisted during my junior year of high school in Marine Corps Delayed Entry Program with full intentions of making it a life long career. What I didn't foresee was getting married. I and my bride were stationed in sunny 29 Palms, CA and our families were in Hickstown NH. I look back and remember my dad's words like he said them 5 minutes ago. I asked him for advice and of course I didn't listen. He said to me, "You may want to think it over more, the economy sucks right now out here." I wished I had listened to him. I was set to receive orders to MP school for a change of MOS from 0331 to military police. That experience alone would have put me on track to pursue law enforcement in the civilian sector. But here we are 30 years later almost and I regret getting out. My suggestion is this, figure out what you want to do for work as a civilian and see what MOS could get you the training and experience to better prepare yourself in the civilian world. I only say this because there wasn't any need for a machine gunner in the civilian world. Good luck and I hope my dad's words will speak volumes to you more than they did me.

Response by SrA Jason Adams made Aug 28 at 2021 6:09 PM

2021-08-28T18:09:45-04:00

I wish I could go back in time and reenlist again instead of separating. I still miss it. It depends on the person though.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2021 9:19 AM

2021-09-23T09:19:31-04:00

When a Soldier decides that they want to get out, I always tell them to have a plan that is put in motion before they get out. And of course have 2 other back up plans. It’s a shame when you see young troops get out without a plan and end up working at a McDonald’s struggling or are unemployed and are back at home.

Response by SFC Kevin Stampfly made Oct 21 at 2021 3:32 PM

2021-10-21T15:32:13-04:00

First off take a step back and realize where you are at in your life right now...are you in debt? Do you love your job, or are you just showing up to collect a paycheck? Do you have enough money saved in the event you get out and can't find a job right away? Do you have a family? Do you have a college degree that can help you find a job on the civilian side? These are all things to think about especially if you have a spouse and children, because your decision affects them as well.

If you know in your heart that you want to continue serving your country, you love what you do, and you are happy where you are at, then re-enlisting will be a no brainer. if you answer no to these questions then I would highly suggest developing a plan that will make you successful after you get out, to ensure there are no regrets that you made that decision.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2021 1:16 PM

2021-11-03T13:16:41-04:00

I agree with CPT Durish. I had a 9 yr break in service, starting in 2007 (after 22 yrs). My wife, who knows me better than I know myself told me "go back, there's something you're missing." As CPT Durish stated, there's a number of reasons, but money isn't it. It's part of your spiritualism. The military isn't for everyone, but one thing cannot be denied, the impact it makes on each of us is indelible.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2023 7:32 AM

2023-03-08T07:32:22-05:00

If you don't have a job/career lined up before you get out of the military, then considered extending one to two years until you have your ducks in a row. Be mindful that if you're applying for government jobs that the hiring process can take several months to a few years to complete. If you're applying to be a contractor, you had better have the right amount of experience to move into the position you want that will pay you well. If you're willing to take an entry level gig, and an opportunity is available, maybe go for it, if you're absolutely sure you're ready to be out of the military and are willing to take this out. For any civilian position, make sure that before you get out of the military you have the skills and education needed to perform in that role.

For most service members I ask these questions when I talk about retention with them. What do you want the military to provide for you? What do you want to do when you leave the military? What have you done to prepare to leave the military? If you can't answer those three questions, maybe consider staying in a little bit longer until you figure out an answer. Always remember that the answers can change, you're not locked into one plan. Just don't leave without having a plan.

Response by SSG Dennis R. made Mar 8 at 2023 8:34 PM

2023-03-08T20:34:10-05:00

Think long and hard before getting out. In my work I saw a whole lot of soldiers who'd gotten out, waited X amount of time, and reenlisted. From what I saw, they didn't do well.
One time, a First Sergeant said to me: ".... Ya know, I spend 90% of my time with 10% of my people ...".
Well, with rare exception, all of the folks I saw as a counselor were in that 10%. The problem children. Those on the way down , and too many times, on the way out. It gave me a rather jaded outlook.