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Looks to me that we are getting soft. Also the way they treat the Soldiers at AIT.. Wow!! Did not like what I was seeing. And I didnot see one Drill SGT, This is at FT Lee 2 weeks ago. These SGT's that march the troops to the chow hall.. Wow.. More trining is needed. Ans I know I'm going to get alot of crap for saying this..
Posted 12 y ago
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<p>SFC Markley - Interesting observation. Let me tell you a story. At my last assignment, I was a 1SG in an AIT Company. I had all the cadre for our BN....all the staff and all the Course Instructors (35M, 35L and 09L). I had upwards of 500 personnel on my books that included military, DAC and Contractors. My three battle buddies had the line companies...with all the students. Their cadre consisted of anywhere between 7-10 cadre members (1SG, CO, XO, Supply NCO and anywhere between 3-5 AIT PSGs). These PSGs were responsible for PLTs of up anywhere up to 150 Soldiers each. If they were lucky, they had a battle buddy, but for the most part, they were conducting the business alone and unafraid. </p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>The Drill Sergeants have been out of AIT since around 2008. Since then, it has been school trained AIT PSGs pulling the duty. They do get the D&C module training that occurs in DSS.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>Those AIT PSGs bust their tails day in and day out. They, along with their Course Instructors, get those Soldiers to meet the standards outlined in TRADOC REG 350-6, MOS Course requirements and other graduation requirements. When they graduate are they all the "cream of the crop?" No. that is the job of the NCOs at their first duty assignment. They are to take those Soldiers and continue to train and mentor them.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>So now that you have a little "back story" on AIT PSGs and life as cadre in AIT land, I challenge you to take those Soldiers, and those cadre that you saw that "need more training," and continue to train and mentor them when they arrive to your unit. </p>
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SPC David Beam
Yes, at least for 11B, 19D, and 19K. Not sure about anywhere other than here at Benning.
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SFC (Join to see)
Well said... I am currently an AIT Instructor and is not an easy task. Yes TRADOC 350-6 has limited some of what we can do as NCOs but we have to be creative and keep searching and implementing effective tools to mold these new Soldiers. Methods deffer from NCO to NCO but usually the lazy ones will say oh "we cant smoke Soldiers anymore". While these methods are effective in some cases, its not always the case. You have PT studs that can PT all day. Again, other methods are very effective as well. One of my favorites.... personnal time. Take that from Soldiers and it will work wonders. Wether is during the weekday or on a weekend when a Soldier is in training their most precious time is personal time. i believe that the ones failing are the NCOs not enforcing the standards because they are too lazy or too afraid to get reprimanded.
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As a current Drill Sergeant our hands are tied by regulations. We are limited in what we can and cannot do. Even where there are grey areas in the regs DS are afraid to push it because they have seen what has happened to battle buddies who did and slightly crossed the line. A lot has changed over the past three years that I've been a DS. When I first started we rarely heard of a DS being suspended. Now we here of three or four being added to list weekly. <div><br></div><div>With that being said most DS are working their ass's off to accomplished huge feats within short time. </div>
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1SG Michael Minton
when you have civilians making regulations that you have to follow, and they are clueless about what it takes or the problems you encounter. some even put their own personnel biases into the regulations. ive been told by some they didnt like something that happened to them so thats why it was in the regulation or policies. you have two kinds of DS's, those that worry about their own career and will not press recruits and the regulations, and then you have those that ride right on the line and occassionally stepping over and other DS's pull him back over (i.e got a phone call). i have to admit, i didnt pay much attention to the regulations that i thought were counter productive to the end results. since i did my bct in the marines, when i became a Army DS, my recruits caught pure hell because they got a little of both branches bct. but they were well disiplined, motivated and trained. my platoons were always the highest achievers every cycle until i became SDS, then the battery of recruits caught hell. but i knew i could of lost my career hundreds of times, but i was willing to take that chance if it meant that soldier was going to be better trained to survive combat!
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SSG (Join to see)
1SG you brought up many good points. I was no angel to the soldiers. But when our command climate changed I learned quickly what I could do and couldn't do.
I've had several friends suspended and investigated for something that one PVT (who was being chaptered) said happened. They were cleared, but are still thought of guilty in some way because "Something might have happened".
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SSG (Join to see)
1SG you do bring up a good point. Its hard for the civilians and senior leaders who rarely if at all come down to the trenches and see what goes on or ask the Drills what THEIR concerns are. After all, these NCOs are charged with transforming civilians into well trained disciplined and efficient soldiers. Also I might add that these kids coming in are smarter than they let on and often doesnt take long for them to know which buttons they can push and what they can get away with.
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CPT (Join to see)
Our DS's in OSUT almost seemed to not give a F what was done to them. They were going to hold a firm, fair, and correct standard no matter what. Of the team of 3, one seemed very adept at deflection questions and accusations. I am thankful every single day that I put on a uniform that these were my DS's. Smokings were regular and when we hit black phase we really saw a strong mentorship develop between the DS's and the Platoon. They taught us the standard and they held us accountable. Once we were maintaining the standard, they then really taught us. More than what the TRADOC curriculum required. They took the time to help us understand what we were doing, how we could affect our careers, and how we were expected to set the standard wherever we went.
DS Clayton, I do not envy your task in this TRADOC environment. It must be a challenge. I am glad that there are NCO's out there who take this seriously and work hard to do their best in the face of such adversity.
I reported to a different AIT as a reclass a year later, and I was constantly in a state of shock. I learned how different other training companies where and how other BCT Companies did not hold the same standard. It was infuriating. I will never forget one of my first retreat formations. There were some Soldiers making jokes, not standing at attention, and just generally being extremely undisciplined. I lost my bearing. Completely. I was a SPC, chewing out new PVT's for a host of BS that just was not something my mind could comprehend. It proved to alienate me from a couple of the IET Soldiers. Later on, one of these IET Soldiers sought my advice and we have developed a good relationship since. It was during this experience that I realized that between my OSUT Company and my MRBC, that I was used to what I considered to be the Army Standard. This was apparently not as comprehensive as I would have thought.
I am thankful every day that my DS's took some risks to train us correctly. I am thankful that noone accused them of anything that put their careers at risk. I am thankful that I was taught and then mentored by those who understood their duty.
DS Clayton, I do not envy your task in this TRADOC environment. It must be a challenge. I am glad that there are NCO's out there who take this seriously and work hard to do their best in the face of such adversity.
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As a retired SFC I can say that I've had many soldiers under me that should never have made it to a unit. They were undisciplined and many were over weight or out of shape. The problem lies not with the DS or even the recruiter but the system and rules now in place. Basically it comes down to the laws make it hard to instill discipline because you can't push them physically and mentally anymore. I consider myself an old school NCO and I didn't care who thought my ways of training and disciplining Soldiers was wrong and I spent countless hours on my Commanders carpet explaining my actions. It all really comes down to society. I don't care about being PC and I firmly believe "Soldiers" need to grow up and stop whining and crying about how tough things are for them. Stop the boohooing and realize that this is real life and and your actions have real consequences. In this business sissies don't get cuddled and pampered, they get killed. So like I told countless Soldiers before... If you get your feelings hurt easily pack your crap and go home because you don't belong in the Army, or any other branch of the military.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
I wholeheartedly agree with your view on things, saw far too many that were not deserving of wearing the uniform, but the DSs hands have been tied for the last 15 or so years with the changes to TRADOC Regs.....
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