What’s the proper way to correct someone when not saluting an officer?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 19:31:35 -0500

I was walking with a Navy LT and an Army Maj. (My hospital has both services) from the USO across the street to the hospital and a PFC passed and didn’t salute. I stopped and asked her, “Do enlisted soldiers not salute officers anymore?” The Maj. with me said I didn’t have to be so aggressive about it. What’s a better way of addressing it without coming off as aggressive?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2018 7:42 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 19:42:24 -0500

I would say "hey PFC, can I talk to you?" Then step to the side and remind the PFC that proper customs and courtesies require the greeting of the day and a hand salute.

Maybe the soldier was having an off day or had something on her mind. Always try to assume the best, but don't ever be ashamed of holding your peers and subordinates to the standard.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 14 at 2018 7:49 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 19:49:38 -0500

You were in the right and the Major was wrong, That is part of our problem- Don't make waves, don't hurt someone's feelings.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Dec 14 at 2018 8:01 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:01:16 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member was the Major a direct commission? Sometimes they are either overly dismissive of military culture or all of a sudden insistent on it. From what you wrote, at face value, you did the right thing, on two levels. One you spotted an infraction and took some action. Two, the junior in the group is usually the best to make the on the spot correction.

I once saw (from across the street) the CG of NTC walking with the Commander of 11th ACR (Blackhorse 6 is an O6) and the Hospital Commander (an O6). Two PFCs from NTC Support Battalion walked right by all three. Blackhorse 6 had to jump in their shit. And you could hear it throughout the grid square.

Your delivery may have been perceived as bad. Perhaps pulling the guy to the side would be the absolute best COA, but no need to make the day of a peer to peer on the spot correction. I would have asked the Major what he would have preferred. Every time you walk by something ate up, you just set the new standard. Has nothing to do with that officer's vanity or degree of comfort with on-the-spot correction. That soldier should be glad it was you and not their CSM.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2018 8:05 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:05:14 -0500

You could explain to the MAJ that you were doing the PFC a favour. Just because he/she didn't care, it doesn't mean the PFC won't come across an officer who does and won't hesitate to dress her down!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2018 8:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:36:04 -0500

Ask them what army they think they’re in and start screaming profanities!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Dec 14 at 2018 8:42 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:42:32 -0500

Praise in public, punish in private.
"Pardon me gentlemen, I need to take care of something real quick" excuse yourself
"Hey PFC, got a second?" pull him aside and make the correction out of earshot of the officers.
Aggressive is Subjective, however if the correction is done in private then that subjectivity is removed or even better it contextually isolated back down to enlisted who will appreciate the specific approach. Don't get me wrong, you might still be aggressive, but it will be out of sight allowing you to make the necessary investigation and adjustment.
After you are done, catch up "By your leave" render honors, and if asked "spotted a lapse in discipline that needed immediate fixing."

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Dec 14 at 2018 8:53 PM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:53:36 -0500

If that particular Major thought your approach was aggressive, he/she must not spend any time around the enlisted set. Your approach would be considered "kid gloves" to many. The only thing I would recommend you change is the distance between you and prying ears before starting some wood line counseling.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Dec 14 at 2018 8:57 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 20:57:12 -0500

Well, those exact words probably sounded a little brash as an E4 to an E3. You are just as "enlisted" as that PFC. Maybe just an FYI you missed a salute would have been enough without the arrogance and showboating in front of the officers. If you had 3 up and 2 down, then maybe that would have been an appropriate response instead of looking like a cheese eating Specialist. JMO nothing personal.

Response by SPC John Smith made Dec 14 at 2018 9:03 PM

SPC John Smith — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 21:03:44 -0500

A little bit of information is missing. Was the soldier in uniform? was the soldier burdened with her hands full? If either of those, a salute was not mandatory. Aside from that, private counseling is preferred by most in leadership. When treated as a learning experience and not a power trip, the lesson is more likely to be understood and respected.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2018 9:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 21:28:50 -0500

Tactful but straightforward.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2018 9:49 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 21:49:36 -0500

I'd say your wording was needlessly sarcastic rather than aggressive. Obviously you know that enlisted still salute officers, so why ask the snarky question. All that does is create an immediate "what an asshole" perception in the person you are correcting. And IMO there is no need for that. It's great that you made an on the spot correction, but do it in a professional manner. Just stop the soldier and point out her error and tell her it's important to be aware of her surroundings and act professionally at all times. But saying things like you did, or an old standby ( yelling "hey troop, you got a broken arm?!") doesn't really project a professional approach either.

Thinking back about medical officers and saluting made me laugh. I had a next door neighbor at Ft Knox when I was there as a CPT for school, who was an eye doctor newly commissioned as a CPT. One day we were walking together in uniform and a soldier walked by without saluting. I immediately made an on the spot correction. When done, he said to me "I know I'm supposed to do that, but I never can get up the nerve to do it".

Response by SGM Billy Herrington made Dec 14 at 2018 9:49 PM

SGM Billy Herrington — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 21:49:43 -0500

If they though you were aggressive I’d hate to see what they would think of my approach.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2018 9:51 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 21:51:07 -0500

When I am walking with an officer that does not get saluted, regardless of how the officer feels about salutes, I tell him I'll catch up in a sec, then turn around and address the issue with the Soldier quickly, quietly, professionally and out of earshot of the officer.
Praise in public, and more importantly, correct or admonish in private, regardless of rank.

The rest is just my personal philosophy, your mileage may vary;
Is saluting all that important on the spectrum of what we do day in and day out? Probably not. But it is probably the easiest one. And I don't really care what kind of day they are having, because if I can't trust a Soldier to do one of the easiest things on the list just because they might be preoccupied with something, how can I trust him to get anything at all done when we really need it and nothing is going right, you know the kind of situations that the military exists for...

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Dec 14 at 2018 9:56 PM

SGT Robert Andrews — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 21:56:45 -0500

I've been in a situation where I made that error. I was a sgt. My private was being a problem and ran full speed away from the company area where we were working. In the process of chasing the private I did not identify two full bird colonels that I ran within 6 steps saluting did not happen. I also wasn't questioned about it.

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Dec 14 at 2018 10:00 PM

SGT Robert Andrews — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 22:00:13 -0500

To address the situation and correct the standard. Just have a simple conversation with the PFC about paying attention to the people around him and keeping head on a swivel. If he didn't identify an officer in a normal setting what will he miss in combat?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 12:44 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 00:44:59 -0500

Most of it has been stated. There’s a way to be more tactfully aggressive. However, a good warning/piece of advice moving forward is that, if you ask Privates ridiculous questions, you have to be prepared for ridiculous answers.

By that, I mean, the idea of your question wasn’t ridiculous. Of course, enlisted still salute officers. However, what if she pulled the dumb Private card out and pretended to ‘me no speak Army’, and answered along the lines of, “well actually Specialist, no. No we don’t salute anymore.” (If you don’t think that’s possible, go ahead, keep asking random Privates ‘yes/no’ questions). Your head would have almost exploded, some sort of argument would have drawn out, and if hypothetical Private Knucklehead wanted to do so, she could have driven you crazy for at least a few minutes. Your officer pals would either have to leave you behind, or wait for you, either making their jobs a little more difficult when they got to where they were going without their enlisted bulldog, or simply wasting a bit of their time.

Of course, the above scenario is a bit hyperbolic, but go ahead, keep asking Privates crazy questions. You’re going to start getting crazy answers.
(If I were you, I’d probably have excused myself, addressed the Private, and caught back up).
Best of luck.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 1:14 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 01:14:29 -0500

I think the more important question is was it a “No hat, No salute” zone? I’ve seen that at hospitals and USOs as well as Aviation AOs.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Dec 15 at 2018 1:40 AM

LCpl Kenneth Heath — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 01:40:04 -0500

Disrespect should be corrected as aggressively as necessary... a Marine Officer wouldn't've been as nice as you were!
(but most Marines would've saluted automatically)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 1:45 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 01:45:35 -0500

As others are saying, just be more direct. Instead of asking rhetorical questions to make your point, simply state "hey/excuse me, you just passed an officer without saluting!" It puts the bottom line up front and they always follow with a salute.

Just the other day I had to correct five Soldiers who did not salute a Warrant Officer as we walked by. The worst was when a Staff Sergeant did it, he had a free left hand, but was carrying a small box in his right hand. He ignored the salute, then two privates walking behind him ignored the salute as well. I got loud at that point, because the SSG had just set a wrong standard for the junior Soldiers to follow, and they immediately followed it. Needless to say, after that, everyone within 100m were paying attention and saluting as the warrant passed.

I do take into account when officers turn their head or body, making it difficult to see their rank as they approach/pass. I don't say anything when that happens. I think some officers do this on purpose though, ha.

I also take into account that newer Soldiers aren't often familiar with Warrant Officer rank, so I may adjust my approach accordingly to the situation. If a Soldier looks genuinely confused, I will pull them to the side to explain. If I catch someone making a glance and then positioning themselves to ignore, then I get more aggressive with my response.

Accidents do happen, but such an on-the-spot correction can increase their alertness for a short period.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 3:05 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 03:05:58 -0500

You were exactly correct. You spoke in exactly the same manner any NCO here would. If it was my children who did something similar I would have said the same exact thing. What you were doing was NCO business and you were doing it well.

Response by Maj John Bell made Dec 15 at 2018 3:54 AM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 03:54:14 -0500

I had a Sgt who would stop the non-saluters, particularly if the are obviously looking away. He would use humor and explain that when they failed to look me in my eyes and render a proper salute; I interpreted it that they assumed I was Godlike a merely meeting my gaze would cause them to burst into flame.

But your Major was wrong, let me guess... he/she was a healthcare professional. The majority are great, but many restricted line officers do not understand the necessity of immediate, intelligent obedience.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Dec 15 at 2018 4:46 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 04:46:34 -0500

I had a 2LT do the same thing to me in 1992 when I chewed out a soldier about not saluting an officer. The 2LT that wasn't saluted explained to me it wasn't important but a watching Major then cut in to explain to me (in a deadpan manner), "It's okay Sergeant, 2LT Yadi-yadi is correct that 2LTs aren't really officers."
The look on on the 2LT's face was priceless as he absorbed the implications of what he had started.
My CSM called me in later (about the non-saluting soldier) and we had a good laugh when he told me the story was all around the Bde HQ, but the COL was very happy with the 2LT's "education".

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Dec 15 at 2018 7:51 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 07:51:41 -0500

Nothing wrong with your approach at all. Not saluting is a sign of disrespect and a violation of a regulation. Had you waked by and not corrected the Soldier you would have become part of the problem. Thank you for your service.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 11:01 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 11:01:45 -0500

Dont sweat the Maj, he was more than likely a direct commission medical officer. You did good. I like to start my corrections with a "Hey you!" It gets there attention and they usually realize they messed up before I start talking about it.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 12:29 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 12:29:44 -0500

You didn't do anything wrong by what you stated. You made an on-the-spot correction, which the Major shouldn't have corrected you on, but sometimes you have to roll with it because every officer reacts to such situations differently.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 12:44 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 12:44:49 -0500

You got the point across that’s all that matters.

Response by PFC Jesse Peeples made Dec 15 at 2018 1:53 PM

PFC Jesse Peeples — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:53:42 -0500

it depends on the AO SOPs check with your first line leader for details ...

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Dec 15 at 2018 2:16 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 14:16:53 -0500

On the spot correction. Who needs to ask? You handled it! Aggressive is "on the spot correction."

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Dec 15 at 2018 2:33 PM

SSG Byron Hewett — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 14:33:32 -0500

politely excuse yourself and then go over to the service member who did not render a salute and take them to the side quietly and correct them by letting them know politely that they did not salute when they passed by the LT and the Major.
A trademark of a good NCO is to correct a problem with out creating one and fixing issues without making a scene or embarrassing someone. problems go away quicker and have less of chance to happen again when they can be corrected quickly and quietly and without embarrassment of JR Enlisted or JR NCO's or NCO's from any branch.

Response by Brad Powers made Dec 15 at 2018 3:28 PM

Brad Powers — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:28:36 -0500

I have personally heard stories from a World War II Veteran about this same issue. He failed to salute an officer so the officer gave him a spech about how it is not the person in the Uniform but the Uniform you will salute. Then you put a officer's uniform on a tree and had him salute that uniform on the tree all day.

Response by PO2 Whitney Mulberry-Chaplin made Dec 15 at 2018 3:45 PM

PO2 Whitney Mulberry-Chaplin — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:45:34 -0500

I can't imagine a private would be so careless. Especially since it hasn't been all that long since they were in basic. Nor can I recall ever missing a salute. It just wasn't done. But then I'm old school. As for tone of correction, if it's same sex personnel then out of ear shot is fine if it's opposite I'd more likely remain within sight and hearing of any group so there are zero misunderstandings. No need to be all hostile when correcting any rank of a glaring infraction. Sometimes its "walk quietly carry a big stick"! It can be a carrot or an actual stick
(EMI) actions as warranted by attitude of one committing infraction.
Easy.

Response by Brad Powers made Dec 15 at 2018 4:11 PM

Brad Powers — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 16:11:15 -0500

How are America's young military service members supposed to get the mental toughness and savvy needed in order to overcome real adversity if they are considered to be too sensitive for accountability. I am just a civilian and this may sound weird this may sound for all I know but there are many reasons why I really want to serve my country. And what them is the feeling you get when you're involved with good positive teamwork. I would be proud to salute the U.S. Military uniform it is exactly the kind of stuff that just motivates me.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 5:00 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:00:26 -0500

That's not even aggressive. You're right about it so who cares? The only time ita wrong is if you threaten someone for doing something wrong

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 5:24 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:24:05 -0500

This should be addressed aggressively. ",Soldier: stand at attention. You have passed an officer and have failed to salute. Execute a proper salute on my command: execute. Do you understand the importance of this? Outstanding. You are dismissed."

Response by LTC Peter Hartman made Dec 15 at 2018 10:15 PM

LTC Peter Hartman — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 22:15:58 -0500

You did the right thing.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2018 12:17 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Dec 2018 12:17:58 -0500

You can begin making on-the-spot corrections by not seem aggressive by keeping it professional. Stop the Soldier, state the deficiency, the reference, and the standard.
Skip the rhetorical remarks that only serve to make you look asinine.
By the way, IMHO, the CPT or MAJ should have made the correction considering this infraction, and their correction of you was only necessary because they failed to act.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2018 4:39 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Dec 2018 16:39:51 -0500

You were definitely correct to address that young man. I have noticed that the Army in general seems a little bit more lax on these courtesies and customs than what I recall in the Marine Corps. I would have pulled the guy aside and reiterated (he should already be familiar) courtesies and customs and explain to him that the next officer may not be as lenient and if a high ranking officer he's unfamiliar with happens to be in his chain of command, it could have ramifications. He needs to remain cognizant of his surroundings particularly while in uniform. Just remember that as a leader it important to practice tact; you want to correct soldiers, not necessarily embarrass them in a harsh way. Depending upon the circumstance, this can be difficult to avoid but the goal is to make junior soldiers better.

Response by SFC Jonathan Adams made Dec 16 at 2018 9:02 PM

SFC Jonathan Adams — Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:02:39 -0500

Coming off aggressive? I don't know about the medical corps but as a former infantry platoon sergeant I'd say that was just about the right respnse

Response by 1SG Dave Carello made Dec 17 at 2018 8:58 AM

1SG Dave Carello — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 08:58:26 -0500

You took corrective action which is the responsibility of ALL Soldiers. It seems the problem was with the Officer.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Dec 17 at 2018 10:12 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 10:12:08 -0500

I've seen two schools of thought playout in situations such as this:
1. Pull the enlisted SM aside and remind them of customs & courtesies.
2. Jump on them and smoke the customs & courtesies back into them.

What's best? Depends I suppose. Know your audience and take your pick.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Dec 17 at 2018 11:50 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 11:50:09 -0500

Good job, as long as you weren't screaming and making an ass of yourself. There's nothing wrong with being firm and assertive.
As much indiscipline as I'm seeing around and no NCO's making on the spot corrections, as a retiree I'd have probably phoned in a positive spot report to your 1SG for observing a SPC taking decisive action.
Thank you for making an effort to do the rite thing.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2018 10:39 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Dec 2018 22:39:09 -0500

Good question, and you show humility in asking.

Here's the answer from my perspective. You were right on the money. You're clearly, already conducting yourself as an NCO. When there’s an on-the-spot correction that needs to be made, that should be made, and that can be made, light them up. NCO’s A R E the military. The rest of us are just here to fall in on your example.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2018 8:47 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Dec 2018 08:47:44 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member The Major you were escorting was correct, your on-the-spot correction was incorrect. If the Major heard you, your correction was not private. The quote you posted “Do enlisted soldiers not salute officers anymore?” was argumentative, condescending, and not inspirational. Please refer to FM 7-13-21, Chapter 3 "Duties, Responsibilities, and Authority of the Soldier", section "Inspections and Corrections" ; subsection "On-the-Spot Corrections" 3-44 through 3-46 as well as figures 3.1 and 3.2. I also would suggest a couple of quotes that I think are fitting in this situation: “Regardless of age or grade, Soldiers should be treated as mature individuals. They are engaged in an honorable profession and deserve to be treated as such.” GEN Bruce Clarke; "Correct errors in the use of judgment and initiative in such a way as to encourage the individual." FM 22-10, Leadership (1951); “He who feels the respect which is due to others cannot fail to inspire in them regard for himself, while he who feels, and hence manifests, disrespect toward others, especially his inferiors, cannot fail to inspire hatred against himself." MG John M. Schofield (all quotes from "Corrective Training/Corrective Action Guide for Leaders" NOV 2011 online at cybercoe.army.mil)

Response by SSG David Palomarez made Dec 19 at 2018 10:13 PM

SSG David Palomarez — Wed, 19 Dec 2018 22:13:20 -0500

I would have addressed the pfc with tact that officer understand. But as well I would have the pfc go back and give the proper respect the pfc is trained to do in basic and by regulations

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2018 1:20 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Dec 2018 01:20:16 -0500

I had this happen when I was newly commissioned. But I also remember being a JR Enlisted. Any rank above SPC scared the crap out of me. It's part of the autonomic fight, flight or freeze mechanism we all have ( some people just don't freeze). You can tell by the look in their eyes and body language.

Best way to respond, IMHO, is to approach the Soldier and give instruction. Don't berate the Soldier, just be a gentleman (or lady) and instruct and professionally correct. Employ the "see one, do one, teach one" aspect of the educational process. Remind the Soldier of proper etiquette and ensure they know that etiquette through the lesson.

It's always better to guide and teach with sugar than with salt. If there is an NCO nearby, let the NCO address the situation. If the NCO does not, shame on that NCO. If they address it, I trust they will address it appropristely.

Response by MSgt Robert Cunningham made Dec 27 at 2018 4:13 PM

MSgt Robert Cunningham — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 16:13:41 -0500

blinded from eye wound.

Response by TSgt Terry Hudson made Dec 29 at 2018 11:20 AM

TSgt Terry Hudson — Sat, 29 Dec 2018 11:20:32 -0500

I think you were fine. The Maj in my eyes was wrong in a way. That PFC didn't adhere to the regulations and you as a higher ranking individual corrected that. As an E4 at that most E4’s congratulate that PFC. Good on you!

Response by LTC John Griscom made Dec 30 at 2018 9:55 AM

LTC John Griscom — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 09:55:34 -0500

Military is not the place for touchy-feely.

Response by CPO Nate S. made Dec 30 at 2018 4:36 PM

CPO Nate S. — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 16:36:53 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Not to make too fine a point, but the (Army) Major was out of line. As an Enlisted you are responsible for good order and discipline at your level. Saluting is a sign of RESPECT.

This said, we don't teach the nature and manner of saluting anymore ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salute)

I wonder if the (Army) Major is aware of these references, especially if an old Navy Chief can find them:
https://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/customs_and_courtesies/about-saluting.shtml

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/AR%20600-25.pdf

I would, when you have this situation next time say:

- "Excuse me Private! Are you aware of AR 600-25?"

- If the answer, and it will be "No" simply say "AR 600-25 is the Personal General Order that deals with Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy. In paragraph 1–5 subparagraph (b) All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard), the commissioned corps of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service entitled to the salute."

- Are you aware of this General Order?" Again, the answer will be "No".

- "Private, it is your duty to recognize when, to whom and where to salute is that not correct?"

- They, if they have any sense, will say "Yes." "So private, you will recognize the two people are officers dressed as officers, correct?" Their answer, I hope will be, "Yes, they are officers."

- "Private, well then, I believe it is customary to render them a sharp and professional salute per Army regulations correct." Again, if they have any sense, they "Private will render a salute and an apology."

- At this point an officer worth a damn will say "Private, the Sgt should not have had to correct you. you know better, and I expect more. The Army cannot afford to let the Navy think we are slack, right. " (Taking advantage of the fact a Navy LT was also witness and stoking a little friendly rivalry.) If the Private has any sense, they will understand the Major is asking the private not to embarrass the US Army, especially in the presence of the US Navy and to be more alert.

Every moment, when appropriate should be teachable! You have to be instructive and to be instructive you have to know what you are doing. Knowing the saluting regs is well within you per view to know as I have demonstrated. Giving the Officer the chance take the high road and obtain "service loyalty" from the young troop and, at the expense of the Navy LT, champion a little solidarity is not a bad thing to achieve.

You then - Make your point in a very professional manner; while, you officer the Senior Officer, the chance to be a senior officer and demonstrate leadership. If that same officer demonstrates a lad of leadership a 2nd time in a similar situation set-up an appoint with your Command Senior Enlisted (CSM, CMC, who ever) and ask them for guidance. Usually, the very good Command Sgt Majors or Command Master Chiefs will see this as a teachable moment for the CO and XO and ask, quietly for their help to reinforce this custom and courtesy up and down the chain.

If that path (speaking to the CSM or CMS) is broken between the CSM/CMC and the CO/XO, I am not sure what to tell you. So, unless a violation of the UMCJ involving a verbal threat is being communicated, being instructive with the force of knowing your regs and using them to teach is a kind of discipline I grew-up with. Of course being a smart or arrogant ass in knowing the regs is not positive either and never works. Yet, being calm and instructive in a garrison situation gets around when done right! A good piece of advice I got very early in my Navy career was that you dit not have to know everything, but you did need to know how to find anything you'd need. For me that was mastering the Navy/ Marine Corps SSIC (Standard Subject Identification Code) system that organized regulations. It was a lot simpler to know that the 6000 group was Medicine and Dentistry and 1000 was personnel, etc. From there I could take 15 mins a day to "brush up on" something I did not do every day. But, I can assure you that EVERY DAY I rendered a least ONE salute, if not more. Does not take a genius to the VERY simple VERY VERY WELL and the to make the impossible look easy when you have mastered the SIMPLE. Lots of lessons here!

COL Mikel J. Burroughs; Maj Marty Hogan; COL Lee Flemming; SMSGT Gerald "Doc" Thomas; SCPO Morris Ramsey; Lt Col Charlie Brown; Maj Alea Nadeem; LTC Private RallyPoint Member; LTC Jason Mackay; Maj William W. 'Bill' Price; LTC Stephen C.; LTC Stephen F.; MSgt Robert "Rock" Aldi; SSG Carlos Madden; SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth; MSgt Paul Connors (Publishing); MSgt Private RallyPoint Member

Salute) - Wikipedia

Response by SCPO Morris Ramsey made Dec 30 at 2018 4:40 PM

SCPO Morris Ramsey — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 16:40:23 -0500

Just do it!

Response by CW3 John Himes made Dec 31 at 2018 7:57 AM

CW3 John Himes — Mon, 31 Dec 2018 07:57:42 -0500

The major was wrong, on the sport corrections call for direct and specific words and actions. Don't sugar coat it, point it out . It is remembered that way and not sloughed off.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Dec 31 at 2018 8:59 AM

SCPO Jason McLaughlin — Mon, 31 Dec 2018 08:59:29 -0500

What I do know is that in the Navy any correction would have started with, "Hey, Shipmate......"

Response by Maj Allen Bailey made Dec 31 at 2018 4:53 PM

Maj Allen Bailey — Mon, 31 Dec 2018 16:53:42 -0500

I am a Marine Officer (Major as a matter of fact). I totally agree that such incidents should be handled at the time of it's occurrence.
I highly commend you handling the matter.

Response by MSgt Darryl Holt made Jan 11 at 2019 12:23 PM

MSgt Darryl Holt — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 12:23:21 -0500

When I was a SrA (E4) a Maj and I were both approaching the same door from different angles. He was slightly behind me to my right. I was looking around and caught him in my peripheral vision. When I reached the door, he put his hand on my shoulder stopping me and said "Airman, you've been in long enough to know to salute an officer when you see one." I glanced down at his hand on my shoulder and said, "Sir, I believe you've been in long enough to know if you touch me without my permission that's considered assault." He stopped dumbfounded and I went inside and went about my business.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2019 7:48 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 19:48:35 -0500

Well done, Specialist. You saw an infraction and enforced the standard. Carry on.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Jan 18 at 2019 12:22 AM

LTC John Griscom — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 00:22:10 -0500

It's kinda of a two-way street. I was a 1LT and walking with another LT on our hospital compound in Korea. A Captain (doctor) stopped us and asked we didn't salute him. I told him when he started acting like an officer, he would be treated like one and he was standing in the street out of uniform.
No response from him, so we left with no salute rendered.
Smartass on my part and could have caused trouble, but he started shaping up.
This was before the movie "MASH" came out and some of our doctors and nurses could have been tactical advisors for Hawkeye and Hot Lips.

Response by CWO4 Will Bush made Jan 19 at 2019 8:31 PM

CWO4 Will Bush — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 20:31:23 -0500

If they are in the military they should clearly know the rules and you did he right thing to teach the LT and Maj plus her the rules which she should have known. As a CWO USN, I stopped other officers who didn't have their jackets zipped up according to rules; I was very respectful and stated, If you don't set example then how can you say "you lead by example" or tell your troops to obey the rules. I stopped p to 05/06. Guess what, they looked at me and was surprised but ended up saying thank you and zipped up their jacket to the required level. When you are right, you can't be challenged. But you must be respectful and not embarrass them. I suspect they never forgot that moment. PS. I also always set the example myself.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 7:38 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 19:38:45 -0500

Being a SPC, you were okay to say what you said, it does depend on the officer as some don't really care to be saluted, but unless the PFC knew this off the bat, they should have saluted. However with the "kinder gentler" army the Maj was correct too because people can be so sensitive these days.

Response by SPC Jerry Jones made Jan 21 at 2019 7:19 AM

SPC Jerry Jones — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 07:19:59 -0500

The LT and Maj should have properly addressed the soldier immediately. If they don't address the soldier at that moment, then the soldier will continue to do what she did. The PFC won't reflect back on you telling them (because of your rank), but if the LT or Major addresses them, then they will remember it. There are higher consequences if there is a chance that the high ranking individual might take a trip to see your Commander.
When I was serving, it was common practice to make sure you saluted when you were supposed to, or else your Commander would have your ass and have you on hard duty for weeks.

Response by 1LT Shaun Ray made Jan 21 at 2019 11:04 AM

1LT Shaun Ray — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:04:43 -0500

If it really bothers you to get a salute then simply walk over and try to shake their hand. I'm sure they will salute you before they shake your hand. Any reasonable Officer would not be to consumed with a missed salute. There are much bigger things to worry about as an Officer.

In my experience medical areas are no hat no salute areas a lot of times. Besides it was a PFC. They were likely thinking about chow or video games.

Response by 1SG Barbara Edwards made Jan 22 at 2019 12:01 PM

1SG Barbara Edwards — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 12:01:14 -0500

I think that the 2LT who commented was correct. One doesn't need to embarrass the soldier. As a former 1SG, I had much better results when corrections were handed privately...

Response by CW3 Dick McManus made Jan 22 at 2019 4:42 PM

CW3 Dick McManus — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 16:42:31 -0500

The Science of Assertiveness theory -- aka folk knowledge (trial and error science)

Assertive (Leadership) behavior of humans: Builds relationships

Will the long-term affects be worse than any short-term discomfort I may feel if I am assertive in the first place?

The word "NO", may have to be repeated over and over, as in a broken record.

An angry and loud communication can be assertive if one is expressing feelings (Using the word "I", ( I am really god damn anger at you ...)

vs. HOSTILE behavior-destroys a relationship: ... You dumb ass, didn't your mother teach you to report to work on time, etc. etc. Why, didn't you do such and such.... You should do such and such

If someone has a habit of saying, "Why, don't you do such and such..." we all understand this to mean "I want you" to do such and such. There seems to be some kind of a taboo in our culture against people saying straight up, that they want.
On the use of the word YOU:

...the use of the word "you" is assertive when a person is acting in the role of boss, parent, or leader, for example, a law enforcer, a teacher, the chair of a meeting.
When someone answers your request with “WHY? For example, “May I have a bit of your ice cream?” or “May I please sleep overnight at your house? “Why?” The assertive answer is “That was not an answer.”

"You are expected to" (follow the rules, etc) , then every time the other person comes up with excuses, sob stories, etc, repeating this phase again and again ("You are expected to" (aka using the broken record shows the other person that you are not afraid to stand your ground and they need for them to rethink their poor behavior.

But remember being skeptically silent is assertive. Meaning, if I try to get the last word.. will I get punched in the nose or some other bad result.

Speaking up in a group to speak is assertive because one is taking the "psychological space" of the whole group.

Hostile behavior: A person uses sarcasm and intimidation to get what they want. One may get what they want, but destroys the relationship afterwards.
It is easy to give up the benefits of hostile behavior when I value myself enough to avoid getting agitated over minor issues and when I am imperfect and incorrect.

Non-assertive behavior: (shy behavior) doing nothing about unpleasant situations and simply try to ignore ones feelings and desires. While it may prevent conflicts with others, one probably will wind up feeling helpless, exploited, angry, and disappointed with one’s self. Being “too shy” to do something.

For example, “I am sorry to bother you.” This is an example, of how being NICE sucks us into a non-assertive down-hill fall. vs. “I want to talk to you.” “ I need your help or I need or want to talk to you.”

or "It was nice talking to you." (when it wasn't and you didn't enjoy talking to them).

Basic Assertive Rights:

1. The right to act in ways that promote my dignity and self-respect as long as others’ rights are not violated in the process.
2. The right to be treated with respect.
3. The right to say no and not feel guilty.
4. The right to experience and express feelings.
5. The right to take time to slow down and think.
6. The right to change my mind.
7. The right to ask for what I want.
8. The right to do less than I are humanly capable of doing.
9. The right to ask for information.
10. The right to make mistakes.
11. The right to feel good about myself.
Must I always assert my rights?
No, I am always free to choose not to assert myself, assuming that I am also willing to take the responsibility for whatever consequences may then occur.
Source: The Assertive Option by Patricia Jakubowski and Arthur J. Lange
and NO TRESPASSING by Barker and Barker.

Response by LTC Ray Rhodes made Jan 23 at 2019 2:27 PM

LTC Ray Rhodes — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 14:27:14 -0500

You were absolutely right in your approach. And you weren't aggressive in the least. However, the major should have taken the initiative as the senior person present and straightened out the troop. Not doing so is dereliction of duty and contributes to the problem. Share these thoughts with the young major. He (or she) needs an attitude adjustment.

Response by SFC Brion Wood made Jan 23 at 2019 6:25 PM

SFC Brion Wood — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 18:25:09 -0500

That's not aggressive. This is a product of not being aggressive enough.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2019 8:51 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 20:51:39 -0500

The proper way is to keep walking and mind your business because everyone isn't going to know the rank of every person they pass on the street and neither they nor you have any real reason to care and you both likely have things of actual importance to worry about. Saluting serves no purpose other than to make you feel special. You're not.

Response by MSgt Walter Clack made Jan 23 at 2019 11:23 PM

MSgt Walter Clack — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 23:23:47 -0500

You were very passive aggressive in this humble Marine's opinion. I would have locked that young PFC up and in no uncertain terms explained that it was NOT acceptable to simply ignore not one but two Officers. Then after letting the PFC go on their merry way would have addressed the Major's lack of concern for improper discipline. Semper Fi

Response by Brad Powers made Jan 23 at 2019 11:50 PM

Brad Powers — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 23:50:48 -0500

I guess maybe a little humility would be in order. I think I can be correct when I say that if a leader were to think of himself for just one day, people may suffer that same day.

Response by CSM John Mead made Jan 25 at 2019 12:01 PM

CSM John Mead — Fri, 25 Jan 2019 12:01:45 -0500

What you did (correct a junior enlisted soldier) was correct. Perhaps the proper challenge to the PFC would have been, "you just passed two officers, plus you need to be more aware of your surroundings. If you had been, you would have seen them and rendered the proper greeting of the day and a hand salute." With that said, the PFC should have complied with your correction and then carried on. Regardless of what the Major felt, you should have mentioned to him/her, in a private setting, proper military protocol, and then left it at that. Obviously, said Major is probably not familiar with Army tradition and used to a more laid back or sedimentary atmosphere. A little more education from you might help fix the problem.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Jan 25 at 2019 8:39 PM

LCpl Cody Collins — Fri, 25 Jan 2019 20:39:15 -0500

You have to remember, he's a Army Major. In boot camp they train their soldiers by being mentors and not drill instructors. His response to U demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about. I bet if the navy lieutenant would have had the chance he or she would dressed him down like no tomorrow. Are you could have excused herself a few minutes from the presence of the officers and pull that PFC off to the side and gave them a Stern warning about military code of conduct and showing a proper respect to officers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2019 8:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Jan 2019 20:50:24 -0500

I might ask you: "would you have corrected an E-7 or E-8 in the same manner?" I commend you for the correction.... Just good for thought.

Response by MAJ Karen Shive made Jan 26 at 2019 10:59 AM

MAJ Karen Shive — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 10:59:18 -0500

I’ve saulted first. There’s confusion over where non salute zones end especially at that rank. I forgot to return a salute on commissioning day. That was embarrassing.

Response by MSgt Peter Vatistas made Jan 26 at 2019 11:20 AM

MSgt Peter Vatistas — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 11:20:18 -0500

If they aren't one of YOUR troops, a simple "PFC, the custom dictates to salute officers" would have been in order (in a professional non aggressive tone). If she was one of your troops, same words but follow up with a verbal counseling in private at another time.

The counseling that I always used was a 5 minute explanation of the heraldry behind the origin of the military salute and an explanation that you are committing to a custom to pay homage to this ancient custom by saluting the rank. Then I had them sign a memo for record, which I kept in a small pocket notebook that everyone knew that i kept, and would never show up anyplace else.

Response by MSgt Horace Smith made Jan 26 at 2019 11:22 AM

MSgt Horace Smith — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 11:22:58 -0500

Perhaps it was the time period in which I served but had I failed to salute an officer, I'd have had trouble sitting down for a week or longer. The correction would have been intense, on the spot and loud... and the @$$ chewing would have been deserved. Hurt feelings? Has the military become snowflakes?

Response by Sgt Barry Fetzer made Jan 26 at 2019 2:46 PM

Sgt Barry Fetzer — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 14:46:57 -0500

I, was a Marine E5, one morning in formation the Captain, informed the troops, we did not e to salute all day long, a new order handed down from Hdqs, directed if we fall out for formation in the morning, and saluted the Commanding Officer it was a given we did not have to salute all day long, that order was sufficient, two days later a 2nd LT leaving the mess hall reprimanded me for not saluting? So if in doubt salute.

Response by PO2 Richard Blakey made Jan 27 at 2019 2:18 AM

PO2 Richard Blakey — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 02:18:36 -0500

nuts cover your ass at all time

Response by PO1 Charles Babcock made Jan 27 at 2019 2:35 AM

PO1 Charles Babcock — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 02:35:20 -0500

from my personal experience, it depended on the officer's reaction. If the O started to blow his top, the junior in the group should pretty much snatch the enlisted aside and get him/her away from the officer in question. THEN you correct the attitude in whatever manner might be proper. If the Officer generally ignores it, I would say something like, "excuse me sir, i'll be back in a minute" then bend the offender's ear in a reasonably polite manner to find out what his/her problem is. Jumping on the offenders shit right there in an aggressive manner is almost NEVER the proper response.

Response by SSgt Derick Brock made Jan 27 at 2019 3:09 PM

SSgt Derick Brock — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 15:09:02 -0500

Years ago I participated in a joint service exercise. I am USAF and the CG was Army. For my job I often wore civilian clothes. One day I passed the CG and did not salute as I was in civvies. An Army Major in his group pulled me aside (which I aprecciated) and then jumped all over me about it and after a rather colorful tirade ended with this thought which has never left me- He's a General in the US Army. After all that he has done to work up to that rank I should think that his service to his country alone deserves at least the respect shown by a simple salute. This Major was not overly concerned with my feelings, and he was quite aggressive. And he was 100% correct. Don't go soft on the young troops, teach them well and they will serve well.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2019 8:12 PM

CAPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 20:12:54 -0500

Immediate, direct, and to the point, off to the side if possible, with no yelling or drama. Keep emotion out of it. That said, this is grown-folks business, and hurt feelings don't matter.

Response by SPC Fred Scholl made Jan 27 at 2019 10:18 PM

SPC Fred Scholl — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 22:18:28 -0500

The Major was wrong and you were not aggressive. I would like to know what the PFC gave as a reason for not rendering a sharp salute.

Response by PO2 Hank Kaczmarek made Jan 27 at 2019 11:51 PM

PO2 Hank Kaczmarek — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 23:51:48 -0500

On this day 43 years ago I went through my first day at Recruit Training Great Lakes, IL.
In my time, You'd gotten a LOT more shit. At my first non-training command I worked in Security while waiting for a school on the NRMC Portsmouth campus.
The Security Officer LT/MSC was a Grunt Corpsman in Vietnam, and when walking around had no issues of pulling exposed gold chains and ear-rings off Corpsmen. Had a Jewelry box full of that stuff. I think if someone had passed HIM without a Salute, I think he would have just bitch slapped them into the ground.

Response by LTC John Bush made Jan 29 at 2019 11:49 AM

LTC John Bush — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 11:49:48 -0500

You were correct. The Major should have acted, sometime I would say " good morning private" or something to that effect to snap the soldier out of their "trance" and move my right arm to start the salute. This worked well most of the time as failure to salute is usually not deliberate. Some of the duty uniforms now do not emphasize rank insignia and creates a problem.

Response by LTC Mark Scott made Jan 29 at 2019 4:27 PM

LTC Mark Scott — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 16:27:13 -0500

I can see that it is a much kinder, gentler Army then when I was a young officer in the early 1980s. This situation has happened to me many times. I always tried to be professional, yet direct and most of the time the soldier took corrective action Without incident. On occasion it was necessary to jump their ass and in one instance I even took three young soldiers to their first sergeant who was a friend of mine and let him “re-educate.”

Response by SGM Debra Bradshaw made Jan 31 at 2019 2:14 AM

SGM Debra Bradshaw — Thu, 31 Jan 2019 02:14:47 -0500

Just politely remind the Officer that it’s your duty to do an on-the-spot correction.

Response by CSM Danny S. made Jan 31 at 2019 9:35 AM

CSM Danny S. — Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:35:00 -0500

There was nothing wrong with asking that question to the PFC. The PFC could have gotten destroyed by a Sr NCO. Now with the Major you need to know which battles to fight. Officers will speak their mind and you have to listen, however you were not in the wrong for attempting to correct the PFC. So keep upholding the standard and pass that on to the soldiers in your section.

Response by PO1 Robert George made Feb 1 at 2019 9:32 PM

PO1 Robert George — Fri, 01 Feb 2019 21:32:35 -0500

Would also remind the LT and Maj(respectfully, of course!) that saluting isn't about courtesy, it's about respect and not getting a salute is disrespectful. If you don't respect yourself, neither will anyone else. I notice most medical types tend to be less stringent on those kind of things.

Response by SSG Robert Spear made Feb 2 at 2019 4:57 PM

SSG Robert Spear — Sat, 02 Feb 2019 16:57:23 -0500

This situation calls for good old fashioned wall to wall counciling.

Response by SPC Earl Semler made Feb 3 at 2019 3:51 PM

SPC Earl Semler — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 15:51:11 -0500

This is a very hard question to answer. Trying to correct the PFC's misconduct in front of others and in public. Should the be called out in front of the officers or taken aside and and corrected. In all my years of supervising others I can't think of a time I corrected an officer or staff member in front of others unless it was in dangerous or life threatening situation. I was a supervisor in in a prison for over 20 years which had military type ranks.

Response by 1SG James Matthews made Feb 16 at 2019 1:33 PM

1SG James Matthews — Sat, 16 Feb 2019 13:33:49 -0500

An on the spot correction is necessary and I always used the tone of voice that let the guilty party know if best never happen again in my sight.

Response by SCPO Lonny Randolph made Feb 18 at 2019 2:21 PM

SCPO Lonny Randolph — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 14:21:41 -0500

Leadership begins with leading. If the PFC failed to salute a leader will correct the situation, calmly, with clear purpose and without animus. If the PFC felt emotionally stressed by a reminder of standards the PFC in question will benefit from an improvement in maturity through experiencing stress and surviving it. As I recall from my days in the Navy the usual standard in such situations is that the Junior Officer or NCO present performs the admonition which permits the Senior Officer to ignore the slight. As to the "aggression" - please - we are in the military - aggression is the very center piece of our profession, our soldiers should be able to handle the stress of a mild rebuke when they screw up.

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Feb 18 at 2019 7:18 PM

1LT Rich Voss — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 19:18:13 -0500

I guess I'd start off by asking if this hospital environment and the nearby USO has a "lax" attitude toward saluting, in general. And secondly, if this Major and Lieutenant were medical officers. My experience, way back in the late 60's, was that our BN surgeon (a top-notch neurosurgeon that was DRAFTED), could "give a crap" about military policy and procedures. He often did not return salutes or gave a sort-of "wave". Why he was only an Army CPT is knowledge held only by the Army. I also experienced, as a brand new "Butter Bar" in that same unit, our Company TOP that walked into the platoon leaders room and told the three of us "Newbies" that he was absolutely NOT going to salute us, unless we had the gonads to go out back of the barracks with him and win a fist-fight. LOL ! With him being a crusty old Viet Nam vet, we all figured he knew some real "dirty" fighting, so no one took him up on it. Within a month or so we apparently passed whatever test he had for us and he started saluting us. Perhaps one of my fellow 2LTs complained to our CO, or further up the chain. I never found out, nor particularly cared.... However, I NEVER tolerated a non-salute from any other enlisted man, as I had been drafted and worked my way through to E5 then OCS. It's a fairly simple rule, respect the rank. Even as a 2LT we always saluted the 1LTs. They often laughed about it, as we all had the same jobs !

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Feb 23 at 2019 7:21 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Sat, 23 Feb 2019 19:21:19 -0500

How I would have handled it.

To Major: excuse me Sir, I'll be back in a minute.

:Walk to PFC:

To PFC: Hey PFC [name]. This isn't me jumping down your throat but this is what I noticed. (Proceed to explain)

In most situations I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Feb 24 at 2019 12:43 PM

1SG Dale Cantrell — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 12:43:14 -0500

If the US ARMY wanted you to have feelings, they would have issued them, correct the problem, loud and proud, so they will remember it and it will not happen again

Response by SGT James Taylor made Feb 24 at 2019 12:58 PM

SGT James Taylor — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 12:58:30 -0500

As has been commented, How you correct someone is most often more effective. I am a civilian now and have had many opportunities to correct people in how they conduct themselves. I have noted that how I correct them makes a huge difference. For something such as saluting an Officer being agressive is not necesary, a simple reminder that in acordance to military customs an enlisted person is required to salute. It is a sign of respect not necessarily of the person but of the rank. As a civilian a handshake and or greeting is just as important. Look the person in the eyes and show them the same respect as you would want to recieve were you in their position.
The PFC should have been paying attention to what was going on around them and rendered a salute as per regulation. As junior enlisted to yourself, however you corrected them should not have been any business of the Officer. Attention to their surroundings as a military member is and should be a high prioirity so when they find themselves in a combat situation they already have that lesson learned. It could keep them alive.

Response by Cpl Geoff Smith made Feb 24 at 2019 1:45 PM

Cpl Geoff Smith — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 13:45:00 -0500

You were right, the soldier was corrected very tactfully, the way it should be done.

Response by SA Billy Seamon made Feb 24 at 2019 2:17 PM

SA Billy Seamon — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 14:17:28 -0500

Too bad, you correct that enlisted right then and there! Screw feelings! This is the Military, not a Fucking college campus! You want "feelings?" Go there! You want warriors? That's what the military's for!

Response by PO1 Michael Brouty made Feb 24 at 2019 5:45 PM

PO1 Michael Brouty — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 17:45:57 -0500

I always showed respect to Officers and expected a small measure of respect in return. We had a Prima Donna C.O in Iraq. Signs were posted "Snipers, no salute area". He would scream at enlisted for not saluting him ! I am all for military traditions and customs, we need to use common sense as well.

Response by SPC Seany Weaver made Feb 24 at 2019 6:26 PM

SPC Seany Weaver — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 18:26:38 -0500

Boy am i glad I retired out when I did. The military is getting weak on discipline and on the spot corrections. If you can't get the soldiers to perform their most basic functions how the hell do you expect to get them to perform as a soldier/warrior when the time comes.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Feb 24 at 2019 7:39 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 19:39:55 -0500

A big part of the is Most military Hosptil have a no saluting policy.
How ever the greeting of the is still mandatory.

Response by LTC Gene Moser made Feb 24 at 2019 8:55 PM

LTC Gene Moser — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 20:55:53 -0500

I've mentioned this before. In '72-'73 I was a student at Ft. Sill for the Advance Course. I was one of
four lieutenants, three of us US and the other Thai, IIRC. One of the required daily things was to check your mailbox. This was somewhere close to half way through the course, so we knew each other fairly well. Anyway, I was walking along back to Snow Hall and we were talking/joking/wondering about the next class when suddenly I heard a "Lieutenant - where is your salute?" I looked up to see a captain from a class several classes behind us. So I popped him one. What did my section mates do? 'WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT GUY?"

Response by MCPO Turhan J. made Feb 24 at 2019 10:06 PM

MCPO Turhan J. — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 22:06:45 -0500

The proper way to correct someone when not saluting an officer? We were all trained to recognize rank and insignia's from any branch of service. However, if an error is made, correct them in private and tell them if in doubt salute first, or apologize (if you mistakenly salute an enlisted person).

Response by MAJ Mt Cliner made Feb 25 at 2019 11:29 AM

MAJ Mt Cliner — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 11:29:21 -0500

My first day, reporting to my joint-service headquarters as an Army 2LT. Saw an older Navy guy approaching, scanned his uniform to figure out his rank, saw something resembling an oak leaf, so I saluted and said Good Morning, Sir. The Chief Petty Officer politely (maybe with a small smirk/grin explained my mistake and said that he should be saluting me) and I continued on my way. That afternoon I saw another Navy fellow with what appeared to be similar brass insignia, so I patiently waited for the salute and greeting. It didn't happen, and then the Commander (my intermediate rater, as it turned out) explained to me that he was equivalent to an Army LTC. Rough first day on the job!

Response by LCDR Tom McGreevy made Feb 25 at 2019 4:03 PM

LCDR Tom McGreevy — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 16:03:57 -0500

I retired as a LCDR. For me I would look at circumstances: Is it 2AM on the pier, raining, and we are 30 feet separated? Or, is it at a training command, just us, and a sailor walks right by me. I always gave the person the benefit of the doubt that he/she forgot, etc because I've done the same thing, and that usually was all it took. If there's a sailor with a chip on his/her shoulder for some reason, getting shit on by an officer for not saluting isn't going to improve that sailor's morale and performance.

Response by SPC Thomas Sikora made Feb 25 at 2019 6:18 PM

SPC Thomas Sikora — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 18:18:46 -0500

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Feb 26 at 2019 4:32 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 16:32:07 -0500

I find this funny, even though you are correct. I just remember once coming around the corner of a building and a Lt. Jg (O-2) came running the other way around the corner and we almost knocked each other down. After making sure he was okay, I turned to walk off and he says "Don't enlisted salute officers anymore?" At first I thought he was joking. But the ring thumper (academy grad) was dead serious. So I pulled off a super smart salute. As he left I gave him the salute he deserved. 1 finger. There are times when salutes may not be called for but in general you had it right.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Feb 26 at 2019 4:36 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 16:36:07 -0500

Of course this just happened. I saluted (as a civilian) a soldier I know was injured in Afghanistan. A few minutes later an Air Force officer told me civilians don't salute military. He is lucky I was in a hurry to go home. I have every freaking 1st amendment right to show my respect for a member of our military by saluting him/her.

Response by CPO Lenny Orth made Feb 27 at 2019 7:20 AM

CPO Lenny Orth — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 07:20:53 -0500

Chastise or correct in private.
Praise in public.
At least start out that way. If someone continues to repeat errors, making it public might help, it might not. But starting out the gate by publicly embarrassing someone who probably didn't intend to not respect your authority will most likely ensure they never do, even if they do salute you...

Response by A1C Robert Babcock made Feb 28 at 2019 9:49 AM

A1C Robert Babcock — Thu, 28 Feb 2019 09:49:32 -0500

Even 20 years ago there were grey areas about when and where to salute. For example, flight lines had different rules/expectations. I found it more confusing than anything and preferred to salute all the time. That rank deserves respect...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2019 10:27 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Feb 2019 10:27:23 -0500

I'm assuming you were walking with a doctor who the Army happened to hand major rank to. His opinion on how to handle soldiers is worthless.

My own technique was usually to call them out with these specific words "Hi, Private, how are YOU today?" use a strange voice, be fairly aggressive physically (lean in toward them) while delivering this polite question, and arch your eyebrow. Worked wonders.

Response by SFC Gregory Moundine made Feb 28 at 2019 7:16 PM

SFC Gregory Moundine — Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:16:27 -0500

Bottom line is Counseling

Response by William Drummond made Mar 2 at 2019 10:14 AM

William Drummond — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 10:14:04 -0500

One of my all time favorites was while attached to an engineering battalion in Germany in the early 80's. The CSM, my boss, and I were planning an upcoming trip in our first floor office with the windows open. Suddenly you hear someone bellowing about proper military courtesy and failing to salute. The three of us moved to the window and watched as this 1LT was chewing the PVT. Then the 1LT decided to have the PVT salute him 100 times and count each one out loud. At 5, the CSM excused himself walked outside and approached. As the CSM left the office, the LTC entered to check on the planning and joined us at the window.

The CSM saluted the 1LT and had the PVT stop and stay at attention. Then the CSM chewed the PVT for improper salutes. "You NEVER drop the salute until the officer returns it. Now, start over again and do it right!" Whereupon the CSM excused himself and returned to the meeting.

Not sure who got corrected there, the 1LT or the PVT. I suppose if you are going to teach, you should do it right. It is also a lesson in discipline as a leader: make sure you can handle the consequences you assign for an infraction.

(Yes, we were laughing all the way to 100... after closing the windows.)

Response by Sgt Steven M. made Mar 2 at 2019 12:37 PM

Sgt Steven M. — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 12:37:04 -0500

I'm afraid, if in garrison, I'd be a little aggressive in my correcting the PFC. As a Marine NCO, It's our job to correct and instruct junior Marines, and other juniors. That PFC could be charged with "Disrespect to an Officer", 2 counts, under the UCMJ. Not correcting is doing that PFC a disservice.

Response by LTC Scott McLean made Mar 2 at 2019 2:37 PM

LTC Scott McLean — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 14:37:09 -0500

I understand why the Major reacted that way, but the issue is not about his worthiness. It is about the order of the military world, wherein this contract among service members is bigger than their own worthiness. In that salute (AND ITS RETURN) there live centuries of mutual respect and commitment to get the mission done, to recognize the value of both the person and the rank, and to both give and receive orders that are lawful, important, and worthy of the honor of the uniform.

Response by LTJG Kevin Matthews made Mar 3 at 2019 3:05 PM

LTJG Kevin Matthews — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 15:05:27 -0500

I've been on both sides of that experience. As a young Army PFC I was walking down a road close to a tactical training area. Across the street from me was a lieutenant colonel wearing battle dress and talking to some other similarly dressed individuals. I was straight up garrison-attired. Like millions of privates in eras before I walked past and pretended I didn't see him. He called out, "Soldier, do you fail to salute all officers, or are you just making an exception for me?" I responded "Sir, I was taught we don't salute in the field." He immediately replied "You don't look like you're in the field to me!" at which point I came to attention, executed a half right face, and presented my best parade ground salute, which he returned. When he said "Carry on!" I executed a half left and went back to going where I was going.

Fast forward 10 years. I was a Coast Guard officer at Fort Bliss Texas walking down the street. An Army SSG practically brush shoulders with me as he walked right past. We were the only two people on the street. I called out "Excuse me Sergeant, it's still customary to render military courtesies to other services." His response was classic. "Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize you're an officer." I'm guessing the gold braid and eagle on my cap and the stripes on my shoulder boards weren't obvious enough. "yes Sergeant, I'm an officer. I know they teach rank recognition in Basic Training. I know I learned it when I went through Fort Dix." At this point he looked at my 3 rows of ribbons and saw my AAM. He apologized and saluted, I returned it and we both went on about our business.
The point of me telling both stories is that the correction needs to be made appropriately depending upon the individual. If he'd said something along the lines of "Good Afternoon Sir, my mistake!" I probably would have said good afternoon, returned the salute and been on about my business. I don't expect a SSG to make the same excuse as a Private, and he needs to be held to a higher standard. I think you handled the PFC appropriately, and I would hope if a petty officer or NCO had done that, you would have held them to a higher standard as well.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Mar 3 at 2019 3:16 PM

SPC Donald Moore — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 15:16:32 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member - Without having been present, I can only guess at the 'aggressiveness' of your behavior. Perhaps more like a drill instructor? Don't stop insisting on proper behavior, but be sure to temper your assertiveness. If you are not in the direct chain of command over the personnel in question, you should treat them more like an equal that you are having a conversation with. There is very little difference between a PFC and a SPC.

Response by COL Victor Hagan made Mar 3 at 2019 8:33 PM

COL Victor Hagan — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 20:33:04 -0500

BLUF: You were correct and the Major was wrong.

Response by SPC Cody Hughes made Mar 3 at 2019 9:20 PM

SPC Cody Hughes — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 21:20:09 -0500

There is not a way to be aggressive. You grab that Private and skull drag him across the gravel parking lot.

Response by TSgt Gary McPherson made Mar 3 at 2019 10:35 PM

TSgt Gary McPherson — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:35:18 -0500

Depends.It the person flat out did not notice the officer then a polite way to correct is warranted. If the person just acted he or she did not care or like a no big thing then a good old Marine dressing down is needed.It also depends on that persons attitude when stopped.. One can tell which is which.One should always be aware of who is approaching.Saluting goes with the uniform.Not saluting is about the same as ducking into a bldg when raising or lowering the colors..Saluting is a sign of respect

Response by SPC David Treese made Mar 4 at 2019 1:29 AM

SPC David Treese — Mon, 04 Mar 2019 01:29:26 -0500

I was a SPC 4 and badly wounded!! My right hand was not so good so I would salute with my left hand!! It was a good salute!! Only one officer ever stopped me to tell me we salute with our right hand son!! I said yes sir, I know that but my right hand has a small problem!! He asked to see my hand and I showed him!! one deformed finger, one finger missing from burns!! He asked how and I told him land mine Vietnam and he said son you can salute me left hand any time!! That was the end of it!! A good person!!! Dave

Response by SFC Alvin Miller made Mar 17 at 2019 3:35 AM

SFC Alvin Miller — Sun, 17 Mar 2019 03:35:01 -0400

THE QUESTION IN POINT IS THE ONLY WAY TO BE ASKED.

Response by CW3 Scott Mckenzie made Mar 19 at 2019 2:25 PM

CW3 Scott Mckenzie — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 14:25:51 -0400

I remember a number of years back, a group of warrants and I were trailing a 2nd Lieutenant to the chow hall when he crossed paths with an enlisted Ranger who didn't salute him. The Lieutenant about faced and yelled after the ranger "Do you see this!!" Pointing at the rank on his cover. The ranger shot back, "Do you see this!" Pointing at his ranger beret and kept on walking. The Lieutenant was speechless and dejected, we took him into our gaggle and protected him through dinner.

Response by SFC Timothy Gruber made Mar 20 at 2019 10:31 AM

SFC Timothy Gruber — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 10:31:23 -0400

There is not enough info here. We cannot tell the tone of voice or other factors; that being said failing to salute an officer can result in administrative punishment under the UCMJ should either officer want to pursue it. Most likely an on the spot correction was all that was needed but at the same time the MAJ coming down on the LT in front and enlisted Soldier is not acceptable in any circumstance. That is a conversation for a private area.

Response by SPC Robin Price-Dirks made Mar 20 at 2019 2:05 PM

SPC Robin Price-Dirks — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 14:05:39 -0400

Ok I gotta reply to this one. Some back ground here I was in AFJrRotc in high school for 3 years, my stepdad was all about VMI and I had been in the Army for well over a year. So I knew military protocol. I got a severe concussion and had been completely unconscious for 30 minutes or longer, over night at Frankfurt Hospital and had half my uniform stolen while in the hospital. My hat, hair bands, and hair clip were all gone. I had no hair brush or even a rubber band to make myself presentable. I asked for those things and was told to stuff it by hospital personnel. As I exited the HOSPITAL looking like something the cat dragged in and unable to remember my name much less my protocols. I passed 2 officers who I didn't salute and got screamed at for 20 minutes over not saluting them. I was sick, confused, couldn't focus, or see and generally was bewildered at their anger over my failure to salute. Not having a PROPER uniform and Why my hair (Waist Length) was not in military regs. I had lost more than 6 months totally, a year of my basic training, and all my ROTC training in one fell smack. I still only remember pieces of my High school and not much of my first year in the military. I apologized profusely and saluted. I vaguely remember hearing my 1st sgt , who had come to take me back to my unit, behind me explaining to them my situation but no one came to me and apologized or said hey are you ok? Not saying that was her situation but it was mine. Sometimes there is a reason...……..jus' sayin'

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2019 5:08 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Mar 2019 17:08:13 -0400

It depends on person who failed to salute. Someone that’s just out of basic/boot camp may never had contact with a commissioned officer and be a little flustered. More experienced (6+ months) enlisted personnel should have no excuse. That said, senior enlisted are usually more than happy take care of the matter. If they’re not there, I usually stop the individual and ask them whether they were taught to salute an officer. They’re usually embarrassed, snap off a quick salute, which I return. On a side note, I was the guest of honor at a recruit graduation several years ago. The incoming CO (an O-6) was taking my on a tour and several recruits failed to salute her. Her first question was what week they were in. If they were in the first three weeks, she would correct them and then take the name of the Recruit Division Commander. If they were in the middle three weeks, she was much more aggressive. And then again took the RDC’s name. My guess is the CMDCM got a call and request to follow up with the RDC. Then came a recruit that was close to graduation. Whoa, Nellie. He was blistered. I suspect the recruit’s RDC had to make a trip to see the new CO.

Response by LTC Patrick Turner made Mar 23 at 2019 10:41 PM

LTC Patrick Turner — Sat, 23 Mar 2019 22:41:41 -0400

That is not aggressive if said in the right tone. In fact, if a strong effort was made by the officer in a humorous tone via a question, that’s the perfect way.

Response by SPC Larry Johnson made Mar 30 at 2019 10:03 PM

SPC Larry Johnson — Sat, 30 Mar 2019 22:03:43 -0400

I don’t think you were to aggressive

Response by SPC James Jackson made Mar 31 at 2019 3:03 PM

SPC James Jackson — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 15:03:00 -0400

No matter what you do someone is going to say you committed psychological violence against them. When we are supposed to salute then we do it in a crisp manner, period. Not doing so is wrong and this disregard and disrespect seems to only be getting worse. They act like it's a chore to render a salute much less a proper one, when it's an honor to even perform the courtesy in the first place...

Response by Sgt Ken Prescott made Mar 31 at 2019 10:59 PM

Sgt Ken Prescott — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 22:59:55 -0400

I had an officer tell me that my desire to ensure proper observation of customs and courtesies was admirable, I really didn't need to say to the Marine in question, "HEY, F***HEAD! GO BACK AND SALUTE THAT OFFICER, RETARD!"

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2019 5:21 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 17:21:26 -0400

What happened to integrity? Who gives a shit if someone's feelings get hurt.

Response by LTC Doug Fenwick made Apr 2 at 2019 3:19 AM

LTC Doug Fenwick — Tue, 02 Apr 2019 03:19:20 -0400

That one was always easy. Ask the soldier if his arm is injured. If he says no, then dress him down.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2019 10:15 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Apr 2019 10:15:19 -0400

Your were right don't worry about it.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Apr 2 at 2019 8:34 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Tue, 02 Apr 2019 20:34:10 -0400

Excuse yourself from the major and drop that PFC for 20. Have her do a half-face and drop her for 20 more! Assign an NCO to see she gets into full battle gear for 20 laps around the entire hospital perimeter. She will salute you next time. Lol.

Response by Maj Steve Eckhart made Apr 4 at 2019 7:13 AM

Maj Steve Eckhart — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 07:13:58 -0400

My preferred method was to render the salute with a hearty greeting. As others have said, the junior person may have been distracted and didn't see you.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2019 2:18 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 14:18:05 -0400

There is no better way.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2019 2:25 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 14:25:08 -0400

There is no better way. You were right.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2019 4:50 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 16:50:38 -0400

I'll take a page from my friend "J" the Marine Major. Funniest "No s**t, there I was..." story I've ever heard.
Offutt AFB - two junior enlisted Airmen come out of the BX/PX complex and on the ~20 yard walk to the asphalt, pass then Capt J. They saw his rank and intentionally looked at their shoes as they passed. He whipped around and yelled, "HEY! ARE YOU GONNA JUST EYE-FUCK ME OR RENDER THE PROPER COURTESIES??" lol
The second half of the story is even funnier.

Response by Cpl Bruce Hoffman made Apr 4 at 2019 9:36 PM

Cpl Bruce Hoffman — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 21:36:00 -0400

It is not aggressive attitude. An enlisted service member is required by the UCMJ to salute an officer. If not in a combat zone.

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Apr 5 at 2019 10:11 AM

Sgt Charles Welling — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 10:11:28 -0400

How about: "PFC, you are required, not requested, to salute officers, why did you not?" After the answer, reinforce the requirement and then require the salute and return it. If there is guff put her on report. 4 years and 4 months in the Marines, NEVER saw this happen, NEVER saw disrespect, the only time I saw an open dress down was when a SgtMaj dressed down a Captain for improperly addressing him, called him the forbidden "Top." I read a lot of nonsense on here from other services....…… you guys are different animals, the Marine Corps means business, "A" game 24-7. Seems to me there has been a lot of liberal influence in others, especially the Army. Sad. (Don't give me the "Marine biased" BS, my dad was an Army LtCol and I was an Army PVT before I demanded and got a lateral transfer to the Marine Corps. The reason...……….. the obvious amount of simple bull shit and lack of discipline was too much, I wanted a serious functioning, no BS experience and got just that. Proud to have been a Marine to this day, proud of the standards, proud of the traditions, E-5 on discharge, RAH!)

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2019 10:49 AM

1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 10:49:39 -0400

Just nicely remind them not to forget their customs and courtesies. It seems your initial response, while not necessarily wrong, came off passive aggressive.

Response by SSgt Robert Van Buhler III made Apr 5 at 2019 11:11 AM

SSgt Robert Van Buhler III — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 11:11:05 -0400

My experience was that Medical and sometimes flight officers are a little lax about military ettiquette, or were in my day (Vietnam). I often saluted officers and didn't get a return. I don't think it was an aggressive response. I heard far worse of a response for failing to salute, like a total dress down. But it usually came from an NCO. But as an NCO, I was taught it was more productive to praise in public and criticize in private, which I always tried to do.

Response by CPL Glynnda White made Apr 5 at 2019 11:25 AM

CPL Glynnda White — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 11:25:12 -0400

The MAJOR and Navy LT should have quietly taken this to the PFC's chain of command and the company commander and other officers should have talked to that person in private. The first question is....do you understand the proper protocol when an officer approaches? If yes or no, the next question should be do you like being in the military? If yes, the PFC is sent to a class on proper protocol when approaching an officer. If no, start paperwork on the PFC....end of story....officers have the obligation in this case to address a young PFC who may or may not know or be unsure of proper protocol....calling the person out in public is going to embarrass and likely have a negative effect. The PFC during the meeting with the officers has the opportunity to make things right and grow in leadership or act like a child and be thrown out of the military...this is not the place for such a person....that person should start at a kid level....flipping burgers, learning customer service and build from there.....the job of the officer is not just to receive respect but to earn it further by helping people such as this young PFC. If those officers do not see and understand that, they should NOT be officers...they are leaders....not particularly upset when they don't get saluted or recognized properly. The salute is important to military readiness. I'm hoping that today's officers and you understand that the salute has a particular purpose....to show the person being saluted not only respect but that the person saluting is unarmed. I would like to see some officer input into this....my military career though not a full career was enhanced with officers and GOOD NCO's who were not "snowflakes" who got their feelings hurt easily but showed maturity and leadership when they detected something with me that needed addressing....the military is not about "good feelings" and everybody being on an equal standing....that is not the case in the military....ranks are there for a purpose....the military is about protecting the nation, about being battle ready, ready to organize and move on a moment's notice....let's get our collective heads out of our "politically correct asses" everyone....Obama's military needs to go....

Response by SGT Jeffrey Sygman made Apr 5 at 2019 11:51 AM

SGT Jeffrey Sygman — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 11:51:32 -0400

It should be done immediately. Especially if you are certain the enlisted soldier intentionally avoided it. Aggressive or non aggressive is just style. The importance is correcting the problem and making the soldier aware of their surroundings.

Response by CW4 Jim Shelburn made Apr 6 at 2019 11:47 AM

CW4 Jim Shelburn — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 11:47:34 -0400

You were correct. The Major was wrong.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Apr 6 at 2019 4:35 PM

SSG Dave Johnston — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 16:35:02 -0400

Interesting; though, a question for SPC(verify to See): Does this Hospital[Med Cen] have a "No Salute Policy"? Yes, such policies exist, and the Hospital Command informs the personnel assigned of the policy as well as informing the Commanders of Units that share the installation that such a policy exist. Now; that 'sphere of influence' for the "No Salute Policy" is only in effect within the immediate vicinity of the Hospital grounds and if the USO was inside of the 'Sphere of influence' ergo...
So:
1. Does a "No Salute" policy exist in and around the Hospital?
2. Is the USO a part of the Hospital AO or to the Installation?
3. Was the PFC wrapped up in their "Dumb Phone" and not observant?
4. "Brownie Points"? Just Ask'en.
5. Yes I'm being a 'Smart Ass' but, Fitzsimmons AMC, 5th Gen Hosp, 130th Station Hosp, 2nd Gen Hosp.[Landstuhl, Germany] as well as other Military Medical facilities around the globe, have/had a "No Salute" policy.

Response by Sgt Phil Quintana made Apr 15 at 2019 1:37 PM

Sgt Phil Quintana — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:37:46 -0400

As I learned at the NCO Academy, "You praise in public, you 'instruct' in private". In a situation like this I would have told the PFC to "stand fast", requested leave of the officers, then spoken to the PFC about "customs and courtesies".

Response by CMSAF Lorne McFarland made Apr 16 at 2019 11:52 AM

CMSAF Lorne McFarland — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 11:52:29 -0400

And the other important lesson to share with the PFC (or anyone else in the same circumstance) is a reminder to always be aware of your surroundings. Saluting is a great custom and courteous that also teaches vigilance.

Response by SFC Leo Augustin made Apr 19 at 2019 10:34 PM

SFC Leo Augustin — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 22:34:58 -0400

as a private i walked everywhere i went, sometimes long distance to and from work. one day i was walking and i noticed someone in the distance but my mind was elsewhere, i was always thinking when i walked and sometimes prayed but that day i heard someone yelling PRIVATE, i stopped and looked around and there was an officer on the other side of the street looking at me. she asked me if i was not going to salute her which i did and thought to myself was this really necessary because i did not noticed you. but it taught me to always look when i see someone no matter how far away they were and if i could not see their rank clearly i would still salute, i have had some strange looks from people that was not officers but i do not like to be corrected and i never wanted to be corrected for the same thing twice.

Response by Sgt Keith Dollinger made Apr 26 at 2019 8:52 PM

Sgt Keith Dollinger — Fri, 26 Apr 2019 20:52:12 -0400

If it involves good order and discipline, I suggest that a) breaches of basic military courtesies, good order, and discipline , REQUIRE aggressive action to correct. And b) you can usually aggressively correct breaches of discipline tactfully, without embarrassment to most of the personnel involved.

In the case here, I might start with, "Excuse me, gentlemen...", step away, "Hey, Trooper, come here, I need a minute of your time." Once I had his attention, the next question would be, "Is there a reason why you failed to salute that company-grade officer and 5hat field-grade officer just now?"

How he answers will determine what you do with him next. Good troopers screw up just like boots, and that's forgivable. [In my case, I saluted, said, "Sorry, sir, my head was a thousand miles away, no excuse, sir." And my apology was accepted...] If he gets even the least belligerent, you'll have to hammer him, and I hope your Major understands that.

Response by Sgt Dan Catlin made Apr 27 at 2019 2:11 PM

Sgt Dan Catlin — Sat, 27 Apr 2019 14:11:24 -0400

The major was wrong, twice over if he said it in front of the pfc. Unfortunately your response should be to suck it up in that instance, but not let it effect your own professionalism. And I'd try not to walk with that major if possible, unless of course your job requires it, just in case the situation ever arose again. Coming from the USO, if you were fraternizing this is one of the pitfalls. I always tried to keep a respectful distance even when walking to the same place.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Apr 30 at 2019 9:51 AM

Capt Walter Miller — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 09:51:25 -0400

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Apr 30 at 2019 9:52 AM

Capt Walter Miller — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 09:52:35 -0400

Sounds like the right tone to me.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Apr 30 at 2019 11:06 AM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 11:06:08 -0400

I think what the Major meant was for you to use a bit more tact and diplomacy, especially in a more open public area where civilians and kids could be around (USO). The best way to handle it would be to ask the PFC to hold on for a minute...and excuse yourself from your officers and go back and point out the PFC's glaring error. Away from mainside and it's just you and other hard chargers, then yes... grabbing them by the stacking swivel giving some brain housing group reminders is expected.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Apr 30 at 2019 11:23 AM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 11:23:04 -0400

When I first got out of USMC, Boot Camp, I went to NATTC Lakehurst NJ....A Navy base, and I saluted everything that had something shining on a collar. I saluted officers, Chief Petty Officers and bank guards. While they usually just laughed it off or said something like "You don't salute me...I work for a living." the Command Chief Petty Officer saw me, pulled me aside and said, "Son... you're gonna take off if you keep flapping that arm like that." He took me to his office and showed me the Navy Enlisted Ranks Poster. He could have just laughed at me as just another dumbass jarhead, but he set me straight and if he told my SgtMaj, neither ever mentioned it. Professional all the way.

Response by SGT Tim Mott Sr. made Apr 30 at 2019 5:11 PM

SGT Tim Mott Sr. — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:11:20 -0400

I’m not sure if this is germane or the not. But in Augsburg, (then) West Germany circa 1976, I was a fourteen year old teenager walking to the PX with my father, an Army Sergeant-Major. My father happened to notice a white, grizzled Staff Sergeant walk by without saluting an African-American 1LT. My father stopped that NCO, who snapped to attention, while the officer turned around and approached us. This was midday, with dozens of spectators. My father questioned the SSG as to why he didn’t salute the LT, and he uncomfortably responded that he was lost in his thoughts, and had not noticed the officer. This answer did not satisfy my father, who later told me that he expected that the NCO’s real motivation was racist in nature. Upon closer interrogation, it became apparent that my father’s suspicion was correct.

My father politely asked the lieutenant (who was dressed in his Class A uniform) if he could borrow his cap. Upon being handed that item, he placed it on the ground about ten meters away on the sidewalk. He then firmly ordered the SSG to approach the hat and salute it as he walked by. My father had the NCO repeat this several times, and then handed the hat back to the LT. He then explained that these salutes were protocol for respecting the rank of the officer regardless of that officer’s ethnicity or race. When he asked if this lesson was understood, the NCO replied, “Yes, Sergeant-Major!” By this time, everyone around us were standing around, intensely observing all that was happening, and the SSG was obviously very embarrassed.

My father then obtained this soldier’s unit, (which he never contacted), and then ordered him to walk by the officer again, who was wearing his cover again. This he complied with, as the Lieutenant with gravitas returned the rendered salute. My father then dismissed the NCO. As we again walked towards the entrance to the PX, my father saluted the officer — who with a slight smile, returned my dad’s salute.

Four years later, I enlisted in the Army myself, in which I served fourteen years. I never forgot the lesson that my father taught that NCO.

Response by SSG Calvin Grant made May 2 at 2019 1:23 PM

SSG Calvin Grant — Thu, 02 May 2019 13:23:59 -0400

Doesn’t matter if the soldier was having a bad day or not. Everyone who serves in the military regardless of rank is taught Customs and Courtesies. General Military Authority allows for anyone to make a correction when we see something not IAW military standards. Failure to correct the problem when it is noticed creates a new standard. If it’s someone your rank or below use the authority bestowed in you as a leader without being ignorant and make the correction. If it’s someone above your rank use tact and bearing and make the correction. There’s no need of looking down, there ain’t no discharge on the ground.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2019 9:12 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 May 2019 21:12:06 -0400

Officers have no business telling enlisted how to correct Junior Enlisted, when it comes to Military Bearing

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2019 10:17 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 May 2019 22:17:07 -0400

Customs and courtesies are a big deal. Enforcing them is not optional. The Major was in the wrong.

Response by 1SG Tom Carter made May 3 at 2019 3:07 PM

1SG Tom Carter — Fri, 03 May 2019 15:07:56 -0400

Although the correction was warranted, you could have handled it in a more professional manner.

What you said to the soldier was condescending. You handled it in a manner that is above your pay grade while present with Officers. From a 1SG or a CSM, in a similar situation, I would expect and respect what was said, but I believe even a SFC would have handled it differently except in front of his Platoon Leader.

A SPC, effectively speaking on behalf of the Officers, is usurping a privilege not earned.

As a SPC you are preparing to be an NCO, but are still just an overpaid PFC. A more acceptable correction to a PEER, would be 'Private, you are expected to salute when you encounter an Officer'. The correction is still made, but in a professional manner that is acceptable to one of your pay grade in relation to the Officers you were with.

In private, as a peer, such a correction would be considered appropriate.

I believe the MAJ was attempting to teach you on how such a correction should be made,

Response by PO3 Terry Miller made May 3 at 2019 3:31 PM

PO3 Terry Miller — Fri, 03 May 2019 15:31:03 -0400

I failed to salute a Marine Corps Captain when I was an E-3 because I wasn't paying attention and was only looking for a gold hatband which, of course, Marine officer uniforms don't have. I had mistaken him for a chief. He was pleasant enough and asked, "Don't sailors salute officers?" I realized my error, apologized, and gave him my smartest salute. He was satisfied and I had learned to be more observant without getting chewed out. I thought he handled that very well.

Response by SFC Ron Shaffer made May 3 at 2019 11:31 PM

SFC Ron Shaffer — Fri, 03 May 2019 23:31:27 -0400

This is one example why basic trainer for all services needs to go back to how it was. I retired in 2002 and am happy beyond belief that I retired when I did, because I know the things I see on Facebook and the news would be corrected right then and it wouldn’t be pleasant. I was traveling around a few Eastern European countries with a friend and saw some severely drunk and disrespectful US Navy sailors in Odessa Ukraine. I pulled them aside and let them have it. I told them that they need to remember that they are representing the USA and the way they are conducting themselves should never happen as long as they are wearing that uniform.

Response by PO2 Larry Hensch made May 4 at 2019 10:09 AM

PO2 Larry Hensch — Sat, 04 May 2019 10:09:37 -0400

I walked by a Marine Captain and an Air Force Lieutenant when checking in to my "A" school fresh out of boot camp. The Captain asked me if I saluted officers, and I said yes and did so. He and I later became friends! I had all the Naval Insignia down pat, but this was a combined command. At the time every Airman or PFC looked like an officer in their dress uniforms to me, but I quickly set about learning what officers from the other services looked like!

Response by CDR Tom Davy made May 4 at 2019 4:14 PM

CDR Tom Davy — Sat, 04 May 2019 16:14:08 -0400

Your "question" was hardly aggressive, I would say it was a mild response. As a retired Medical Service Corps officer and former Corpsman, I know that medical commands are often lax re saluting.
I also know of several medical department officers who are not "into" being saluted.
The underlying problem lies in the poor military training given to our medical personnel.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made May 5 at 2019 12:48 AM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Sun, 05 May 2019 00:48:49 -0400

Peel away from the Major and stop the PFC. Have a direct chat with the PFC expressing her error by imparting to her the military customs & Courtesy. Have the PFC approach the MAJOR, apologize and render the proper salute with the greeting of the day. Correction of mistakes is never wrong; overlooking an error deliberately is error squared. The Major should not have interfered and allowed compliance.

Response by SSG Michael Davis made May 5 at 2019 1:07 PM

SSG Michael Davis — Sun, 05 May 2019 13:07:10 -0400

Keep your head down and move on. If you are right but the seniors are wrong, very little can be gained on trivialities. If the stakes are high and the results matter, that's another story. But, at the end of the day who does or who does not salute whom really doesn't matter in the bigger scheme of things.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 5 at 2019 8:34 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Sun, 05 May 2019 20:34:09 -0400

Hate to say it but nurses and doctors generally do not care much about customs.

Response by CW2 Michael Bodnar made May 6 at 2019 2:34 PM

CW2 Michael Bodnar — Mon, 06 May 2019 14:34:14 -0400

I don't think you did anything wrong. You can ask many different ways but the bottom line is, the PFC was definitely in the wrong. I would've handled it slightly different by asking the PFC to chat off to the side. I would've asked the question about saluting and if he/she knew what the regulation was and if they could explain it to you. It also depends on whether they were looking at you all and just blatantly walking by - that would definitely change my approach.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2019 2:57 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 May 2019 14:57:37 -0400

I think you're completely in the right battle. Although the MAJ may not have liked your style as a future NCO its your job to maintain standards and discipline. I don't see what you did as toxic leadership or a bad way of addressing it. Good work.

Response by SP5 Ed Ehrlich made May 6 at 2019 7:04 PM

SP5 Ed Ehrlich — Mon, 06 May 2019 19:04:23 -0400

In 1970 I was at a rear-echelon Army base in Vietnam. I was a Spec-4 (E-4). I arrived at (believe it!) a Tennis court to play tennis against a Captain in my unit. We worked alongside each other. I forgot to salute him. Without hesitation or delay he matter-of-factly reminded me to salute when approaching or passing an officer -- especially away from the "workplace". I instantly did so and learned a valuable lesson. Don't get casual. Maintain your decorum no matter what, as it's clearly important to the maintaining of military discipline at all times whether in uniform or not. Undisciplined behavior while away from the combat zone, like weak training and individual/unit discipline, erodes our readiness and must be avoided "at all costs", as they say.

Response by CPO David Russell made May 7 at 2019 8:30 AM

CPO David Russell — Tue, 07 May 2019 08:30:43 -0400

You did good! I would’ve lit them up, it’s the military not McDonald’s

Response by Cpl Marshall Ennans made May 8 at 2019 12:04 AM

Cpl Marshall Ennans — Wed, 08 May 2019 00:04:19 -0400

For most marines in my experience it was something like:
"HEY THERE DEVIL! I GUESS WE DON'T GIVE THE PROPER GREETING OF THE DAY NOW!?"
Much respect to all of you for your restraint and courtesy.

Response by Maj Dale Smith made May 8 at 2019 4:51 PM

Maj Dale Smith — Wed, 08 May 2019 16:51:33 -0400

We have a number of issues here. Chances are you were with individuals that are in the medical corps. We line officers refered to them as 90 day wonders. They spen 3 months learning drill and ceremonies and this was predicated on their background in medicine (You can also insert JAG, area defense council & chapelin here). This is not an excuse, just a reality based on these individuals not being combat officers. The whole movie "MASH" and the television series of the 1970s revolves around the idiosycracies of military medicine. That said, yes, a saluet should have been offered or reterned. One of the best ways of handeling this would be to consult with your first sergent and have him mention it to the medical corp first sergent, where it will then be elevated to the hospital commander who will send out a memo to all medical personnel to observe military cortosies.

Response by PO1 Michael Havner made May 9 at 2019 7:46 PM

PO1 Michael Havner — Thu, 09 May 2019 19:46:50 -0400

I think you handled it well. That's a lot nicer than we'd have gotten 25 years ago when I was a PFC. I've taught soldiers recently. It is a kinder gentler Army, but 5hats not necessarily a bad thing. Tact is definitely needed with younger troops today. Again, though, I think the original poster handled that pretty well.

Response by 1LT Pamela S Lee made May 10 at 2019 3:08 AM

1LT Pamela S Lee — Fri, 10 May 2019 03:08:33 -0400

I agree; Saluting is a show of respect at the very least. I would have ckucjed.kicjed gher gek=els if i had been there. 1LT Pamela S Lee, USA ADA, RET.

Response by PO1 Thomas Williams made May 11 at 2019 8:32 AM

PO1 Thomas Williams — Sat, 11 May 2019 08:32:43 -0400

I think we are seeing some of civilian society spread into the military. The disrespect we see out there, out here every day by a new generation is horrific. When I grew up you were expected to respect your elders, your teachers, all adults and people! Today we see so much disrespect for children and young adults, it is spreading into everything.

As for how to handle this, I am all for making sure that the respect and dignity in the military stays there! This person should be immediately addressed and yes, asked why they neglected to salute! Not saluting was something I would never have done when I was in. And it’s not just about respect, it is also about discipline! In order to maintain the discipline needed in the military, any, and I mean any lack of discipline needs to be addressed immediately and corrected.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made May 12 at 2019 8:45 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sun, 12 May 2019 08:45:47 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Okay I read many of the posts here and disagree with some agree with others. So I decided I would speak directly to you and not the others I feel that is counter productive.
In Correcting the PFC you were right. Your body language and voice tone may have made you look like a Mad Pitbull. I would have to assume a lot to answer this question as asked and could assume either way (both good/bad).
So my answer to you is reassess the situation Did you just Lamb blast the PFC or did talk to here in a manner that would put her on the defense.

I am not saying be overly nice but if you come off like HEY PFC and asked the question in front of the Officers present then Yes you could have come off a little aggressive better to give a short pause and then still correct the PFC. I would have said excuse me Sir I will catch up I have something to do then spoke to the PFC. IF it were AIT OR BOOT then it would be different.

Considering the happened in late 2014 I am sure you have been promoted and have learned a leadership style that your comfortable with.

Thankyou for your service and Good luck to you.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2019 9:34 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 May 2019 21:34:12 -0400

This would be my response: I'm sorry you feel i was too aggressive, but this is enlisted business and I am totally within my lane. Next time you might want to let the officers get out of earshot before you correct someone.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2019 7:32 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 May 2019 19:32:05 -0400

I wouldn't say you were aggressive by asking that question.

Response by CPT Jim Kotva made May 16 at 2019 3:05 PM

CPT Jim Kotva — Thu, 16 May 2019 15:05:20 -0400

I agree with the Major get over it

Response by 1LT Jack Charrin made May 20 at 2019 5:32 PM

1LT Jack Charrin — Mon, 20 May 2019 17:32:03 -0400

You were absolutely correct for calling out this female PFC. The PFC needs to go back to Basic Infantry School Training refresher course. Jack Charrin 1st Lt. US RA Air Defense

Response by 1SG James Kelly made May 30 at 2019 1:46 PM

1SG James Kelly — Thu, 30 May 2019 13:46:01 -0400

No.

Response by CW4 John Beebe, BS, DML made May 31 at 2019 2:32 PM

CW4 John Beebe, BS, DML — Fri, 31 May 2019 14:32:19 -0400

SPC Ball,
You did EXACTLY what a soldier SHOULD do. Not to be denegrating but the Major (if medical corps.) was probably appointed by a direct commission and does not have the same military discipline you have on Customs and Courtesies. Sad, but true! You helped to elevate that PFC to a professional level that she had not been at before. When I was an NCO, I was taught that if you fail to enforce a standard, you establish a new standard. That Maj was in for job, you are living a calling. Big difference! When I would "jack-up" privates for not saluting other officers or ME, I was not overly cuddly, BUT, my point was that their lack of discipline and lack of attention to detail (as they almost always said they didn't see me coming, until they put their head down after recognizing an officer approaching) is what gets people killed. Their lack of discipline makes them the same as those who have done nothing to earn the uniform, act better and professional as they have worked to achieve what they have and they need to have enough self-respect to show it. I am honestly proud of you for enforcing the standard and doing so properly. Airborne!!!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2019 10:32 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:32:42 -0400

"Is your arm broke?"

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2019 2:30 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:30:35 -0400

You exercised your general military authority to engage disrespect exhibited by the PFC. Regs are not written with caveats about your approach, especially when discipline has been such an issue recently.

Response by SFC William White made Jun 9 at 2019 6:52 PM

SFC William White — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 18:52:12 -0400

I can imagine how difficult and confusing that situation might have been for a SPC4. He may not have known what a Navy officer's rank insignia looks like. I always operated on a 'if you're not sure, salute anyway', basis.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2019 8:53 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 20:53:27 -0400

There are several ways this could have been address.. Personally I didn't see anything wrong with the way you addressed it.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Jun 14 at 2019 6:10 AM

Jerry Rivas — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 06:10:19 -0400

Jerk a knot in their butt. The major was wrong.

Response by LTC Ben Chlapek made Jun 14 at 2019 5:12 PM

LTC Ben Chlapek — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 17:12:36 -0400

CW4 John Beebe, BS, DML - great comments! When sitting out with some senior CWOs when deployed, one of them had an answer that was awesome. He stated that once CWO's became a "commissioned" rank, there was (and still is) some uncertainty about officers and warrant officers saluting. When approaching an officer, he would salute the ones who took care of their soldiers and didn't mess with them for the sake of sucking up. When he was approaching an officer who didn't get it and spent the whole deployment working on their promotion packet in their "office" instead of leading, he would act like he was going to salute and hold his arm down at the last second. Most of the time, the officer was already in the act of saluting and carried it out. The CWO would then say "that's OK, Sir - - you don't have to salute a Chief Warrant Officer." It lightened the load and we all laughed as we took a long pull on our "near beer" from the DFAC. Bunch of Army Aviators. Go figure : ).

Response by PO2 Louis Fattrusso made Jun 14 at 2019 7:03 PM

PO2 Louis Fattrusso — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 19:03:08 -0400

I will tell you the wrong way. In the mid 70’s a Marine Officer stopped us at the Exchange because he didn’t like the way we saluted. He made us salute over and over again. We then spread out in the parking lot forcing officers to salute us one at a time.

Response by SPC Jim McCormick made Jun 15 at 2019 6:03 PM

SPC Jim McCormick — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 18:03:08 -0400

Absolutely the action should have been corrected. It is not a suggestion and in a Garrison environment it is and should be done. I remember a couple of incidents from my younger days though, being an MP. I was working the gate, back when DoD decals were issued for to gain access to the post. It was a rush hour the gate, lunch time, high noon. The sun was glaring down (before the covers at gates like now). I saw the temporary post decal (2" square) but didn't see the color. The driver (in civies) slammed on the brakes, backed up (nearly caused a collision), and yelled he didn't get a salute. I told him to pull into the defile lane, looked at the decal, rendered salute to said decal, and issued him a citation for improper backing. I ,afterwards, saluted him (since seeing his ID card, 2LT OCS) and sent him on his way.
Another time at a Payday activity, a LTC was walking towards my SSG and me. We both gave the greeting of the day. My SSG saluted, I didn't. I had my K9 on a short leash position, my SSG had not gotten his out of the vehicle yet. The LTC, started towards and began raising his voice slightly, asking SPC aren't you going to salute? Had to order him to stop and stay back (my K9 had already started leaning forward getting ready). We then explained that it was for his safety to stay and why K9 Handler with a MWD doesn't salute per regulations/policy/SOP. He was like, OK that makes sense. Lol

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2019 8:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 08:51:57 -0400

General Military Authority. Being “aggressive” maybe I’m cut from a different cloth, but from what I read that was not aggressive, direct yes not aggressive. I have learned that many new Soldiers have not had a “real talk” by most of their CoC and by all means I have no problem doing so. I don’t know if the PFC was medical or not, but being medical and in a medical unit myself I see it all the time. Being direct and aggressive have somehow been confused with one another within our society today. I say keep doing what you do and let’s get our Corp back.

Response by CAPT John Kittler made Jun 16 at 2019 3:41 PM

CAPT John Kittler — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 15:41:02 -0400

Wow. Shame on the Major for not addressing the lack of a salute.
I cannot believe we are having all this discussion about a salute that should have been given and instruction that was properly given to the offender. Next we will be talking about what is the proper way to correct someone who directly defies an order.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Jun 16 at 2019 3:44 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 15:44:56 -0400

Was this lack of maners in one of those no Salute zone's that seem to be at most if not all Military Hospital.
I was not aware of this untill one day at Walter Reed. I was give a talking to about making all these Medical types returning a Salute.
The resion was becaues the Officer's would be doing nothing but Saluting the whole time they where outside.
If that is the case PUT UP SOME SIGNS, But the great of the day is to all ways be given No excuses.

Response by SrA Brett Stratton made Jun 16 at 2019 8:24 PM

SrA Brett Stratton — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 20:24:30 -0400

There was a captain I recall that I think did it best. An A1C forgot to salute. Captain simply said, "Forgetting something, Airman?" It took the A1C a couple of seconds, but he saluted. Captain simply smiled and saluted back saying, "As you were." Easily a learning experience without demeaning anyone.

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Jun 17 at 2019 5:54 AM

MAJ Steve Daugherty — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 05:54:55 -0400

Probably a “ Hey Pvt did you forget something? “. Would have sufficed. But the medical Corp is notorious for being distracted from normal military courtesy as we have a separate pecking order, where a Captain physician can be giving orders to a Lt. Col Nurse. So that makes for a feeling of rank being just a pay grade and not necessarily an indicator of authority. A young enlisted person in that environment could forget what it is like everywhere else in the military.

Response by MAJ Jay Callahalm made Jun 17 at 2019 11:02 PM

MAJ Jay Callahalm — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:02:02 -0400

As SGM Frazer said. Speaking as a retired Major - that Major was wrong, and you were right. Reminds me of a scene in "The Guns at Batasi" - - - where Rhichard Attenborough's character jacks up an EM for failure to salute. Worth a watch.

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Jun 19 at 2019 12:03 AM

SGT Joseph Dutton — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 00:03:27 -0400

I have seen it vise versa when an enlisted salutes an officer but officer didn't return the salute. A salute is a jester showing respect of rank (Not the person), acknowledge of a command/order & returning the salute shows the recipient the same manner. I believe there is a UCMJ Article that covers this. I'm going to take this a step further. When I was in the Navy and we docked at a Thailand Naval Base in Thailand. A U.S. Navy enlisted man (not me) fail to salute a Thailand Naval Officer. He got the max punishment allowed by the UCMJ under that article. Remember that if you going to dress one down, be sure to use common sense & tact and your Ajay squared away and use a firm authoring voice.

Response by CPT Keith Whitter made Jun 19 at 2019 10:36 AM

CPT Keith Whitter — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:36:36 -0400

I believe that your direct handling by calling out the individual was correct in every way, and it displays both knowledge and courage. When I was a young lieutenant I had a squad leader who was a large and powerful individual, SSG P. I watched him handle this exact thing once. He wrapped his left arm around the offending soldiers shoulders, and walked down the sidewalk speaking gently into his ear. The I noticed the young soldiers feet were barley touching the ground, and I thought - now that is a handling for the problem.

Response by LTC John Walker made Jun 19 at 2019 10:45 AM

LTC John Walker — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:45:44 -0400

Does the Army no longer have the Army Officer's Guide (original published in 1930, the copy I have is 45th edition, dated 1990) and the NCO Guide (original published in 1954, the copy I have is 4th edition, dated 1992)? Customs and courtesies remain virtually unchanged. How to salute is described in FM 3-21.5, Drill and Ceremonies, and whom to salute is defined in AR 600-25, Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy. You were indeed correct in making an on-the-spot correction IAW AR 600-20, Army Command Policy. I say to you: well done.

Response by LCDR Spencer Shih made Jun 19 at 2019 11:24 AM

LCDR Spencer Shih — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 11:24:35 -0400

My line was always: "Excuse me, a little military courtesy is appreciated." This always resulted in a salute. I didn't have to explicitly say "salute" - people know what is expected. All you're doing is holding them to a standard.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2019 4:54 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 16:54:54 -0400

What is wrong with what the Navy Lt. said. In the good old days you would have gotten a good @ss chewing, the 1SG would have been called, and the PFC would have been dealt with by the chain of command.... depending on what the circumstances were. Not enough details here.
A friend of mine had a bad habit of always looking down, didn't salute the CG because he didn't see the CG's jeep. He got a free ride to the Division HQ ... and another free ride back from the 1SG.

Response by SSG William Leedom made Jun 20 at 2019 3:55 PM

SSG William Leedom — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 15:55:28 -0400

You were right about it, when I was on active duty I was visiting my sister who was in the navy at the time, I was a E6 Army NCO pasted a LT(jg) any he barked at me about not saluting ( didn’t see those litty bitty butter bars) but later passed a CPO and saluted him( hey I saw shinny shit) and he corrected me, (SQUIRREL) but you should correct someone because they might not have seen or didn’t know protcall and don’t let the officers tel you don’t worry about it,stand your ground, I was a 3stars aid driver and Bodyguard and he respected me for knowing customs and courtesy while in and out of uniform, don’t get lacks in your training and discipline in uniform we....umm y’all have to take up the slack of us old retired NCO’s and teach theses young officers the proper ways.....again (SQUIRREL) got off in a tangent....in other words, you were right to correct them

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2019 8:33 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 20:33:11 -0400

You could have easily left the sarcasm and condisending remark out of it. I am a firm believer that all military customs and courtesies must be followed and respected. However, your approach sounds to me like you were trying to impress the two officers you were with more so then to correct an obvious discrepancy. Showboating is an awful trait, especially for an aspiring NCO. Just my opinion of course!

Response by SSgt Christopher Clinton made Jun 20 at 2019 10:40 PM

SSgt Christopher Clinton — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 22:40:42 -0400

Stepping aside and giving a stern reminder would be appropriate. I notice some officers (especially dr.'s and chaplains) aren't as concerned with missing a salute but saluting is not only a matter of respect but of dicipline and situational awareness.

A habit of maintaining situational awareness (and following procedure) can save or cost lives...so you can remind them of that next time you see someone skipping a salute.

Response by LT Marsha Holden made Jun 20 at 2019 10:58 PM

LT Marsha Holden — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 22:58:37 -0400

I think you should have been more aggressive! What is up with the Pfc? He/she should have been doing push-ups!!!

Response by 1SG Charles Simpson made Jun 23 at 2019 7:33 AM

1SG Charles Simpson — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:33:59 -0400

There is no way of correcting a fellow soldier for disregard of army regulations than by being aggressive. You should also correct the Major by telling him or her that you are a professional soldier who hopes to become an effective NCO and that you are duty bound to correct all violations of established regulations in that endeavor. The Major was wrong in not correcting the PFC himself. You are to be commended for your actions in this matter.

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Jun 23 at 2019 1:34 PM

MSgt Eric Roseberry — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 13:34:10 -0400

Passive aggressive. Turn, say Solider to attract attention, offer a hand salute. Accept appology graciously

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Jun 23 at 2019 2:24 PM

CPL Gary Pifer — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:24:11 -0400

Depends on the command. Many are top heavy with officers and don't salute....Hospitals are normally such commands... everyone is also called by their first names.... If the officers were not concerned ...you shouldn't be. Now with an infantry, unit that's a different story.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2019 3:41 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 15:41:00 -0400

Senior Enlisted are responsible for training military customs and courtesy

Response by Sgt Bob Adcock made Jun 23 at 2019 5:12 PM

Sgt Bob Adcock — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 17:12:13 -0400

I once made the mistake of saluting a LtCol and Captain with a cigarette in my right hand. The Captain grabbed me by my lapels and slammed me against the wall while he chewed me out. I was a PFC at the time and never made that mistake again!

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Jun 23 at 2019 8:36 PM

SFC Oddie Brown — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:36:06 -0400

I won't mention the General's name but our FA unit was at Graf doing live fire. I think this was around 1984 or 85. Our BC went to main post and while he was inside HQ the new BG who had just gotten his first star came walking by. The driver who was a private and a dirt bag did not get out of his jeep or render a salute. Result: that BG came to our firing point and for one hour he observed our battery doing D&C on proper salutes. Present arms......order arms, for an hour.

Response by SFC Matthew Del Rossi made Jun 23 at 2019 10:29 PM

SFC Matthew Del Rossi — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:29:33 -0400

You did right. The Major should and the Navy LT should have made the correction.

Response by CN Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2019 2:44 AM

CN Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 02:44:10 -0400

Is to call him and tell the person how important its to salute a superior officer and tell him not saluting could lead to charge

Response by SPC James Dixon made Jun 24 at 2019 10:27 AM

SPC James Dixon — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:27:46 -0400

It's not really surprising honestly. There are more and more millennial attitudes in officers nowadays. The officers in my unit do not like being saluted. But as for correction, I personally have a verbal than written mindset. Pull the soldier aside first and explain with a firm yet understanding tone about there deficiencies.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2019 1:17 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:17:16 -0400

Seems pretty appropriate to me, I do it with my LTs as well when it rears its ugly head. It all comes down to customs and traditions. None of us is above it and none of us is exempt. I've seen a CSM go about elbow deep in a Trooper. He certainly got his point across and the decorum between Enlisted and Officer was clearly re-established. NCOs and in your case a SPC hold the line. It's what we do and sometimes your point has to get across clearly. I respectfully believe you did the right thing.

Response by SFC Jim Neel made Jun 24 at 2019 1:34 PM

SFC Jim Neel — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:34:13 -0400

You were definitely exercising general military authority by correcting this Soldier. The MAJ is entitled to their opinion, but every Soldier is charged with enforcing Army regulation. The only suggestion that I would make is that Soldiers should be corrected out of earshot of others, and approached in a manner so as to maintain the Soldier’s dignity, and it should be an instructive moment such as, “Private do you understand that AR 600-25 obligates you to render a salute to all commissioned and warrant officers?” Conversely, an example of an appropriate time to correct someone within earshot of others would be witnessing a safety violation where someone may be injured or worse or when a group must be corrected for the same infraction.

Response by PO2 Ed Taylor made Jun 27 at 2019 10:03 AM

PO2 Ed Taylor — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:03:13 -0400

I may be from the old school, but there are somethings in the military that should not be overlooked and should be agressively enforced. The salute is to show respect and differerence to a superior officer or from enlisted to officer of the uniform and the officers rank not the individual wearing the uniform. The given salute is also returned for the same reasons. come on guys this has never been changed. ED TAYLOR US NAVY AND US ARMY PO2/PO3 AN SGT TRAINING NCO,PATHFINDER, SUPPLY SCT, COMBAT ENG. BOSN MATE, HEAVY EQUIPMENT OPR. AND CB'S. Been there done that bought the t shirt and used it to shine my shoes.

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Jul 7 at 2019 12:32 PM

Cpl Tyler Therrien — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 12:32:28 -0400

I agree with you- an enlisted is SUPPOSED to salute I'd have made her drop and give me 20

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Jul 14 at 2019 12:55 PM

SGM Harvey Boone — Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:55:51 -0400

He was out of order he himself should have addressed the PFC.

Response by CPL Trey Sivaad made Jul 16 at 2019 12:03 AM

CPL Trey Sivaad — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 00:03:49 -0400

Has the military changed this much?

Response by Capt Michael Wilford made Jul 16 at 2019 1:10 AM

Capt Michael Wilford — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 01:10:39 -0400

While this is an older question, I think we find that those in the Medical Corps are a bit more relaxed with customs and courtesies as they are more focused on the health care of our service members. In the grand scheme of things, the military will not cease to function, but a simple reminder of good order and discipline never hurts.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2019 9:45 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 21:45:44 -0400

Grab the PFC and give him some remedial training.

Response by SSG Carlos Garcia made Jul 19 at 2019 10:37 PM

SSG Carlos Garcia — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 22:37:10 -0400

There's no such thing as being too aggressive and especially to an enlisted who failed to perform one of the most basic drills taught in Basic Training under FM 22-5. U.S. Army drill and ceremony provides discipline, esprit de corps for more than 238 years. Friedrich Wilhelm Augustus von Steuben, chiefly known in America as "Baron von Steuben" (1730-1794), was an officer in the Prussian Army from 1746-63 and a major general in the Continental Army from 1778-84.

As a Senior NCO, I will write down the name, rank, and Company Commander's name and company to report such infraction, which will result in a verbal reprimand and an Article 15.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jul 28 at 2019 3:41 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 15:41:48 -0400

On the spot corrections are sometimes very necessary

Response by TSgt Gary Garvin made Aug 2 at 2019 11:28 AM

TSgt Gary Garvin — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 11:28:07 -0400

I also would take the offender aside and correct them!

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Aug 2 at 2019 2:34 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 14:34:45 -0400

Sounds like you were PC enough to me.

Response by SFC James Chandler made Aug 3 at 2019 12:48 AM

SFC James Chandler — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 00:48:47 -0400

I would tell them be more aware of their surrounding. It doesn't matter what branch a strip is strip, a Bar or bars, oak leaf, FUll bird and a star is a star in any branch. When In doubt salute and away

Response by SFC James Chandler made Aug 3 at 2019 12:52 AM

SFC James Chandler — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 00:52:42 -0400

Continue saluting. You are showing respect to the rank and not the person

Response by MGySgt James Munn made Aug 4 at 2019 3:06 PM

MGySgt James Munn — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 15:06:01 -0400

I actually had to handle a situation or two like this. The way I addressed the situation was, "Hey PFC get back here". When the PFC returned and saw the officer he rendered the proper salute. If he hadn't, I would of required that he do so at that moment. Then I asked "Why the hell didn't you salute the commissioned officer the first time when he was so damn close he could have bitten you? Now IF, by chance the knucklehead works in an environment like the Pentagon where half the services don't even wear a cover and there is no saluting, you may understand their ignorant behavior, but then remind them that they are not there anymore and they need to pay more @#% attention to their %#$@% surroundings! ("Of course I may have used more colorful language back in the day so as to not make the situation boring.)

Response by SSG Ray Elliott made Aug 4 at 2019 4:41 PM

SSG Ray Elliott — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 16:41:35 -0400

The only thing I would have done differently was I would have taken the PFC off to the side to do the corrective action. Other than that I think you were perfectly right in what you did.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Aug 5 at 2019 4:37 AM

SSG Brian G. — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 04:37:58 -0400

You did exactly right. The Major was in the wrong. It's unfortunately part of this newer "feels first" military.

Aggressive would have been walking back, locking the PFC into position of attention demanding name and unit and then turning it over to their CoC to correct and re-train.

Response by Maj David D. made Aug 5 at 2019 11:41 AM

Maj David D. — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 11:41:38 -0400

Saluting is an exchange (greeting) between members of an honorable profession. Choosing not to salute or not to return a salute is just dishonorable and disrespectful. When I was a Tech Sgt (USAF), I encountered just to opposite where an enlisted member saluted and two medical officers turned their heads. I very "politely" approached the officers, with salute I held until they returned it. Then I prefaced everything I was about to share with the magic words, "With all due respect gentlemen." The rest of my talk was not very polite. Then I saluted, turned, and left with their due respect.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2019 11:59 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 23:59:23 -0400

The last time I checked the regs., all enlisted, up to E9 will salute all officers, yes including 2LT. However, as our society and military moves towards a more "sensitive" military, one in which we don't hurt anyone's feelings. We forget to enforce basic military courtesy and respect, for fear of a potential IG complaint. Call me old fashioned, but I learned a long time ago while serving in the Marines, that we salute the rank, not the man/woman wearing. And yes, the major in the posting was/is wrong; it is that precise attitude that landed us on this posting to start with...

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2019 5:24 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Aug 2019 05:24:44 -0400

You did the right thing. As sometimes happens (I'm assuming the Major was medical services) they're not used to the basic military customs and courtesies of any service since they were probably direct commissioned and later had some quick shake and bake school. If the Major was not direct commissioned then it was a flat out mistake on his/her part to be that direct and, to that point, you just say "yes Sir/Ma'am" and carry on bringing the minor exchange to your CoC.

Response by SFC Patrick M. made Aug 7 at 2019 2:17 PM

SFC Patrick M. — Wed, 07 Aug 2019 14:17:27 -0400

I think you handled it fine. Though the Major should have said excuse me PFC didn't you see the LT and I?

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2019 5:22 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Aug 2019 17:22:23 -0400

I think that sometimes, situation depending, making someone feel a little guilty or embarrassed is better than an ass chewing because they don’t want to get embarrassed or make the same mistake again.

“I’m sorry private, I must be jacked up if I don’t rate a salute. Don’t worry I’ll fix myself. As you were.”

Response by Sgt Diane Rasar made Aug 7 at 2019 11:49 PM

Sgt Diane Rasar — Wed, 07 Aug 2019 23:49:17 -0400

A Captain was one of the reasons I left the Air Force. I had 3 days before reenlisting and I was walking to the BX at Hamilton AFB when the Captain was also walking toward the same door of the BX. I did not salute him as he was at 20 feet away from me and I would have had to turn sideways. He dressed me down because I did not salute him. He embarrassed me for that. After that I did not reenlist. He was just being an egomaniac. Of course I had no respect for him. I have a 30% disability for PTSD for assault 3 times.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2019 4:56 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 04:56:11 -0400

You need to correct that behavior at the time it happens and find out who there chain of command is to fix this disrespect to any officer, Some people have forgotten you salute the rank that is on the person , Also once this happens the person should be made to research the reason we salute and the history behind it, an they should be made to stand in front of there chain of command and read the history of why we salut.I myself have this happen when I was walking with a Lt and stopped the person and corrected this behavior

Response by SGT Dan Keeler made Aug 8 at 2019 5:16 AM

SGT Dan Keeler — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 05:16:56 -0400

This boggles the mind. Since when should a SM NOT receive on-the-spot correction for something like that?! I don't thing there is any better way of addressing that. Now, had you been an NCO, the conversation probably could have been handled while the PFC was in the front-leaning rest. That's how it was handled in my day, anyhow....

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Aug 8 at 2019 10:31 AM

Cpl Jeff Ruffing — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 10:31:26 -0400

I would say, “ Excuse me PFC, when was the last time you had an eye exam?” Whatever he answers, I would say, “ You need them checked again, because you past a ofr without saluting.” Unless if it’s life or death, it doesn’t require meanness or hostility. Use humor. There was an old joke about a military person coming back to base drunk. As he was stumbling down the sidewalk, he was trying to find his lighter to light his cigarette. It was very dark and he saw a figure in front of him. He said,” Hey buddy, you got a light?” The figure replied “yes” as the light from the lighter got to the military persons cigarette, to his horror, he realized it was a General. The military person snapped to attention and blubbered his apologies. The General stated, “ That ok son, just be grateful I wasn’t 2nd Lieutenant .” Sometimes we get distracted, our minds are elsewhere. If it isn’t life or death, use humor

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2019 11:24 AM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 11:24:36 -0400

The other issue may be that they saw the LT and tried to fly under the radar. I remember when I was an A1C at lackland, me and my Wingmen used to always get chased down by groups of butter bars that were fresh out of The academy. And they would harass both the Tech Schoolers and trainees. So another possibility would have been that they didn’t want it to happen again.

Response by Capt Edward Hannan made Aug 8 at 2019 2:44 PM

Capt Edward Hannan — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 14:44:47 -0400

was the Army Major a doctor? Doctors frequently do not have training in military discipline. I saw this frequently as a young Marine officer back in the dark ages, as our medical personnel we re all furnished by the Navy, for which we are eternally very grateful. The Navy doctors had a much different relationship with enlisted personnel than Marine line officers did. Not saying the Major was correct but it would explain his attitude.

Response by SSgt James Whetstone made Aug 8 at 2019 4:55 PM

SSgt James Whetstone — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:55:41 -0400

I was a ssgt and my wife's cousin was a LT. We met each other in a parking lot in front of base hq and didn't exchange salutes. A bird Colonel proceeded to rip us a new one and impressed us that the salutes were for rendering respect for the uniform and not necessarily the individual wearing it. Never forgot that educational moment. We were in the wrong. If the private can't accept that as a man perhaps he's in the wrong profession.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2019 8:26 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 20:26:26 -0400

Not correcting the private in front of the officers.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Aug 8 at 2019 10:21 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 22:21:40 -0400

Far as I can tell, you were correct in making that on-the-spot correction. I don't know if you happened to be in a "no-hat, no-salute" zone, but IT IS possible that the PFC could have been mistaken about something like that. I don't know because I wasn't there. BUT, you did the right thing! If we can't count on these junior soldiers to do the right thing with the small stuff, how are we supposed to trust them with the big stuff?

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Aug 8 at 2019 10:23 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 22:23:20 -0400

I guess that sometimes, you may have to come off as a butthole to someone about making sure that standards are followed and enforced at the junior level in hopes of that discipline with carry over to the senior level once they get there.

Response by SSG Phillip Trezza made Aug 14 at 2019 7:22 PM

SSG Phillip Trezza — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 19:22:32 -0400

Ask if it is a no salute zone. If it is a salute zone, tell the soldier they need to pull their head out of their fifth point of contact and salute an officer when within 6 paces.

Response by CPT Agustin Gracia made Aug 17 at 2019 8:47 PM

CPT Agustin Gracia — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 20:47:18 -0400

Hi Command Seargent Major (or anyone in a leadership position) do you believe in leading by example? If the person is not a leader I would ask them, "is there anything wrong with your right arm?" A salute is a military courtesy that demonstrates the importance of situational awareness, discipline, respect, leadership, and combat readiness in a high performance culture. As a civilian, I no longer salute, but I do render a cordial greeting and make eye contact with everyone that walks by me. A leader is always on display.

Response by PO3 Bria n O‘Connell made Aug 17 at 2019 10:37 PM

PO3 Bria n O‘Connell — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 22:37:22 -0400

Thanks for clarification from a retired HM . Most weenies don’t know marine corps is part of Navy Dept.

Response by LTC Charles Lauderdale made Aug 18 at 2019 3:03 AM

LTC Charles Lauderdale — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 03:03:40 -0400

Just do not do what my driver (a very squared away corporal) did one afternoon while he was driving me trough a training area in an open 1/4 ton (for you young guys, that is what we had before the Humvee and after the M-37 Jeep. Knock it off. I know how old I am. I took basic with the M-1 and was issued brown boots with a bottle of black dye.) when we drove by a group of trainees standing outside of a classroom on a smoke break. I was occupied reading some paperwork when suddenly he slammed on the brakes causing me to nearly eat the windscreen. When I looked up he was already dismounted and halfway to the group of trainees standing about 60 feet away. He bellowed at the top of his lungs attention and got right up in the face of one of the trainees. After about a minute of what appeared to be a by the numbers tail chewing he told the whole group to render a hand salute. After I returned the salute and the corporal had returned to the vehicle. I said, "I must remember to never fail to salute a superior officer when you are around." The corporal in a very excited voice said, "Sir, you did not see what that punk did, he not only did not render you a proper salute, he shot you a peace sign!" I said; "Well, I bet he will never do that again and I bet he is thanking the Lord right now that you were not armed."

Response by Capt Al Parker made Aug 20 at 2019 11:43 PM

Capt Al Parker — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 23:43:04 -0400

Happened to me, the A2c's boss a Major came up with the reason is that thee A2c forgot he had to salute officers. It's not forgetting it's a poor Discipline problem.

Response by SGT James Hammons made Aug 21 at 2019 8:53 AM

SGT James Hammons — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 08:53:39 -0400

It would be good to pull them aside and take it as a training opportunity. Sometime soldiers especially privates just need a little help. If it was a SGT then it is different. But privates are already nervous.

Response by COL Howard McGillin made Aug 28 at 2019 6:24 AM

COL Howard McGillin — Wed, 28 Aug 2019 06:24:11 -0400

I’ve commented before on this. A salute is a sign of respect shared between warriors. While the tradition is for the junior to initiate there is NO Rule that says the senior cannot initiate it. So start the salute - 99.9% of the time the junior realizes it and snaps back a top notch salute. Include a greeting as well like “Good morning soldier” or “All the Way”. And go on about your business. There wasn’t really a problem ... you showed respect to a fellow warrior...and you are both serving this great country. Nuff said.

Response by SFC Phil Geiger made Aug 28 at 2019 10:52 AM

SFC Phil Geiger — Wed, 28 Aug 2019 10:52:41 -0400

I had this happen numerous times while I was a senior NCO. I was walking into our BDE HQ and a CW3 was about 10 steps in front of me. A PFC came out of the HQ and didn't salute. As the Chief turned around to say something, I said "I got it chief'. He turned around and went into the Bldg. I then reminded the PFC of basic military customs and courtesies. It should be the NCO who makes the correction if one is around. Drill Sergeants teach this in basic tng and is NCO business. I know, I know there is no such thing as NCO business (whatever), but we need to police ourselves (enlisted ranks) so our officers have the utmost trust in us.

Response by CPT David Medley made Aug 28 at 2019 11:05 PM

CPT David Medley — Wed, 28 Aug 2019 23:05:03 -0400

We've become to soft; It may hurt the Armed Service's !

Response by HN Cristian Guerrero made Sep 13 at 2019 10:27 AM

HN Cristian Guerrero — Fri, 13 Sep 2019 10:27:39 -0400

I was fresh out of Corps School, I was really scared when I get to Bethesda Naval Hospital, one day I was in a hurry and because I was fresh I saluted anything brown, I saluted a Chief she just laughs and told me:-Shipmate, we don't salute Chiefs only officers. But we always got yelled out from officers fresh from Annapolis. In the end, we learned to recognize them and just take another route,but I think that there are better ways to correct someone than to yell on a hallway full of patients.

Response by SGT Karl R Lechten made Sep 26 at 2019 9:50 PM

SGT Karl R Lechten — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 21:50:21 -0400

I would have shared my 'CHITOS' with her or...… gotten her a bunch of flowers and suggested its sheer courtesy to SALUT an officer (in a rather complimenting voice...…………….. without make a lot of 'BALLY-HOOOOO. The MAJOR was RIGHT for she …. could have something more important on her mind-

Response by PO1 Anthony Sam made Sep 29 at 2019 12:20 PM

PO1 Anthony Sam — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 12:20:02 -0400

Whack to the Nut sack

Response by PO1 Anthony Sam made Sep 29 at 2019 1:46 PM

PO1 Anthony Sam — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 13:46:11 -0400

Honestly you did not do anything wrong but she should been made to salute a tree until it returned her salute back.

Response by CPO John Bjorge made Sep 29 at 2019 1:47 PM

CPO John Bjorge — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 13:47:19 -0400

So true, any active duty member in uniform should show respect to the rank of others. The only exception I ever saw was when an Admiral started to dress down an E3 in dress uniform for not showing respect. The Admiral had to shut up, pop tall and salute the Seaman when he noticed the MOH on his chest. Never a right or wrong way, it's discipline at stake.

Response by PFC Alma Ramirez-Sherrill made Sep 29 at 2019 7:26 PM

PFC Alma Ramirez-Sherrill — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:26:29 -0400

Maybe she had a bad and didn't notice the officers. Or in certain hospital areas are no salute - such as in Ft Sam when I was stationed there. Get over yourself and remember you are deal with a person. Yes, your uniform deserves the salute - sometimes the person does not - but uniform does. And learn to deal with people with respect and you will get it back - or at least your uniform will.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Sep 29 at 2019 10:16 PM

LTC Ken Connolly — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 22:16:11 -0400

What you did was "Segeant's Business". The Major was wrong and should not have butted in. Hopefully though you saluted the Major and said yes isir/mam, went on your business and continue doling the right thing.

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Sep 30 at 2019 10:02 AM

MSgt Bruce Hutchinson — Mon, 30 Sep 2019 10:02:42 -0400

That’s aggressive? Wow

Response by SPC Joel Alioto made Sep 30 at 2019 10:54 AM

SPC Joel Alioto — Mon, 30 Sep 2019 10:54:03 -0400

I was deployed in Baghdad headed to a F.O.B. and the esteemed officer told me to "go around the I.E.D. clearing team, I have to pee". I obeyed him. We survived. But I wouldn't have peed on him to put him out if he was on fire after that. I always obeyed his orders to the letter but I did not salute him after that for about a week. Our Sargent Major asked me why.
I explained the reason. And he in a father like way said " Son you salute the rank, not the person". After that I just looked at there rank and saluted it and never had a issue after that.

Response by MAJ Doug Mattox made Sep 30 at 2019 4:25 PM

MAJ Doug Mattox — Mon, 30 Sep 2019 16:25:34 -0400

Plenty have answered the question. I have hit the age where I like to go down memory lane. I have learned there is a big difference between Combat Arms Officers and Non Combat Arms Officers. An Infantry Officer and I (Armor) was tasked to assist a Doctor who was to be commissioned as a Captain. I am not sure how or why it worked out the Doc was there and how Docs get commissioned but we were taking him to clothing sales to get him set up for uniforms and the what nots, before heading to FT Sam Houston. While at the Clothing Sales the other Captain and I noticed a Infantry LTC with pin rank instead of sew on. We convinced the soon to be Captain the LTC had is insignia reversed and it was his duty to correct the LTC. The LTC's uniform was perfect but the Doc did not know that. He was very hesitant however we impressed upon him it would be better he do it than letting him go out of the building and someone else seeing the LTC out of uniform. We stressed, "make sure you tell him you are a Captain and tell him to pay attention to details." Let the LTC know you are a Medical Doctor and he is only Infantry."

It was fun to watch from a distance. The LTC was fairly shocked at first but soon realized the Doc was being played and he handled it like a pro. He realized what was going on and played it perfect. We actually talked to him later and he really had a good laugh. The soon to be Captain didn't talk to us anymore.

Response by SGT Nel Despradel made Oct 1 at 2019 12:00 PM

SGT Nel Despradel — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 12:00:23 -0400

I am not surprised at all. The new generation of officers and enlisted just pass you by as you do not exist. It’s sad to see an tradition, courtesy and customs gone. I am working as a contractor now for the NG and don’t know how difficult is to say Good Morning when walking by, mainly when you are in CIV and everyone else is on uniform. And their NCO’s are doing the same.

Response by CPL Michael Headrick made Oct 1 at 2019 4:26 PM

CPL Michael Headrick — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 16:26:19 -0400

Ask the non saluting party if he did not notice or see the officer. If the situation needs it I would make a deal out of it. Respect is a must.

Response by PO3 Robert Jones made Oct 1 at 2019 5:23 PM

PO3 Robert Jones — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 17:23:10 -0400

That because we have become so soft, The Maj. was incorrect the under class need to respect upper offices. you could explain it is correct to salute officers when passing and they in return should also do so.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2019 5:33 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 17:33:04 -0400

You did exactly what you were supposed to do. In fact the MAJ needed a brief lesson on saluting. I've been in that situation where a 2LT walked by I stood up and saluted him. A PVT walked by and didn't. I stopped him and did the same thing you did. Then I said hold on Sir, don't go anywhere. I told him that he has a responsibility to enforce the standard as well. Once you allow Soldiers to get away with the smaller things a new standard has been created.

Response by SGT Eugene Brooks made Oct 1 at 2019 8:39 PM

SGT Eugene Brooks — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 20:39:22 -0400

As a Sergent I ran into this problem several times. My way was to ask the little imbecile if he or she knew what an officer was and what he/she was supposed to do when they saw one. Most of the time I was told they were supposed to salute them. I would point out the officers they had disrespected and ask them what they were going to do about it. I would then tell them to go over to the gentlemen Salute them and apologize to them for their lack of respect.
How ever in some cases, you have to be rather aggressive in your approach. In the old days when I joined the Army and my platoon Sergent would have taken me out back behind the barracks and do a little dance in my behind. So get real Major, your in the army now and you don't sweet talk an enlisted man or woman or even other officers below you and gain any of their respect.

Response by 1LT Mary Renzi made Oct 1 at 2019 9:48 PM

1LT Mary Renzi — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 21:48:32 -0400

Ask them if the arm is broken. It worked for me

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2019 11:16 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 11:16:58 -0400

I would've asked that private the same thing. Locked him up and everything. Then I would've kindly told the Maj. That he earned the right to receive the proper greeting.

Response by SGT Ronald Audas made Oct 2 at 2019 1:57 PM

SGT Ronald Audas — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 13:57:25 -0400

Where did this PFC do her basic training?

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Oct 2 at 2019 2:08 PM

SPC Greg Campbell — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:08:10 -0400

was walking with a group from Sullivan to the PX and this lady was coming towards us. when she was right abreast of us the eagles became apparent. we stopped got her attention and saluted with the greeting and a parade ground salute. she returned the salute and told us no big deal, us combat unit troops had probably not 'seen one of us before' she accepted our apology and everyone went about their business. had to go get that pogie bait.

Response by 1stSgt Jody Canfield made Oct 3 at 2019 11:13 PM

1stSgt Jody Canfield — Thu, 03 Oct 2019 23:13:18 -0400

Excuse yourself from the officers if possible then as the offender to stop for a second. Address the issue quietly and privately. Go back to the officers or resume what you were doing. "Chastise in private, Praise in public"
-Retired First Sergeant

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2019 5:01 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Oct 2019 05:01:23 -0400

SPC Khyle Ball, You we’re right to confront and instruct the PFC about proper behavior and saluting an officer. The Major was wrong to say that it was aggressive. May guess is that hasn’t been around Marines a lot. Especially Chief Warrant Officers.

Response by MAJ Fred Peterman made Oct 14 at 2019 5:03 AM

MAJ Fred Peterman — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 05:03:45 -0400

I was an 2LT walking on the other side of a 4 lane street at Shepard. I didn't recognize a Captain walking on the other side of the street until he called out and walked across the BUSY street , dodging traffic, and spoke to me "loudly and sharply" (I don't "yell" at people).
I cane to attention, saluted, and said that I had NOT recognized he was a captain. He said , since I was a 2LT, that I must "be new", "(I had a number of service ribbons. 3 rows probably.")

Response by Sgt Heriberto Salinas made Oct 15 at 2019 5:35 PM

Sgt Heriberto Salinas — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 17:35:04 -0400

I to once had an incident concerning not saluting an officer. I was walking to the chow hall against the wind, and was leaning forwards into it and looking down. A major was walking the opposite direction towards me and stopped me as I was passing him. I lifted my head up as he said "excuse me, but you forgot to salute me", as he pointed out his ensign on his collar. I thought that was tactful. I apologized, and saluted him. I walked away appreciating the fact that he was polite about it. I've heard stories that some officers can be pricks about it, and others can careless. What can you do, lose sleep over it?

Response by CDR Keith Schnier made Oct 30 at 2019 5:08 PM

CDR Keith Schnier — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:08:35 -0400

Yours was a proper question. The Major was incorrect.

Response by MSgt Roger Lalik made Oct 31 at 2019 8:22 PM

MSgt Roger Lalik — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 20:22:53 -0400

You did just fine. My preferred method was to yank a knot in their ass. In your scenario to not render a hand salute looks to be intentionally disrespectful. Being so, that PFC is hollering to the two officers F**K YOU for all to hear and you know any other enlisted person that saw the PFC were waiting to see what you will do about it. As for the Majors comments. You just respectfully tell him "ok sir you are telling me that you don't deserve a hand salute, you don't want to be respected. But I will ensure that any other officers that may happen to be in out group WILL receive a proper and respectful hand salute and the greeting of the day."
The same applies the other way. You render a hand salute to an officer and give the proper greeting of the day and the officer does not return your salute. You do an about-face and catch up to the officer, stop him or her, Explain they did not return your salute as required and give another salute. I bet it's returned now.

Response by CW4 Billy Dove made Nov 1 at 2019 6:51 PM

CW4 Billy Dove — Fri, 01 Nov 2019 18:51:30 -0400

AR600-25 1-5. Says all Army personnel are REQUIRED to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Further on it states the junior person shall salute first. In my opinion the Major should have kept quiet and appreciated the Specialist's respect and knowledge of military regulations, customs, and courtesy. As. Leader he should abide by and encourage the same.

Response by PO2 John Zodun made Nov 4 at 2019 12:33 AM

PO2 John Zodun — Mon, 04 Nov 2019 00:33:59 -0500

You could have said excuse me I noticed you didn’t salute the officer did you not see him

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2019 7:50 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Nov 2019 07:50:06 -0500

Since you stated "My hospital has both services", you may want to check the "No Salute" policies in the area. Some military hospitals have no salute areas because of the large number of officer and enlisted. Just because no salute is rendered, it is not necessarily disrespect.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Nov 15 at 2019 4:25 PM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Fri, 15 Nov 2019 16:25:25 -0500

Let me guess, the officers were medical types. While I respect their skill and their dedication to their job of taking care of all service personnel they have to learn to respect the customs and traditions of the military.
If you were senior to the private who forgot their responsibility to salute you were right on and the officers should not have been critical. As long as you didn't try to play drill instructor and humiliate the soldier. It may have been that they were day dreaming and never noticed the officers. They just needed to be reminded. They should apologies, salute and go about their business.

Response by Capt Al Parker made Nov 20 at 2019 9:59 AM

Capt Al Parker — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 09:59:22 -0500

I can remember not being saluted. The E3 (Air Force) boss a Major decided that the E3 “forgot” he had to salute officers. Both we’re African Americans. I just wrote it off as an Anti White respect thing. From that point on I had no dealings with the Major.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2019 1:11 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 13:11:58 -0500

In Iraq, a soldier and I were walking into Al-Faw Palace when General Cone(3star) at the time and his entourage were walking out. I saluted this wall of blinding brass but he didn't. I quickly corrected him on the spot as well as had him run past and salute. We did our business in the palace and returned to our office. For further correction I had the soldier stand outside our HQ and salute and give the greeting of the day to every NCO and officer for about an hour or so. During that hour a Maj came in and ask why this PFC was out there doing that. I explained what happened and he said I was too excessive. I politely reply "Well Sir, there is Officer business and NCO business, unfortunately this is NCO business" He promptly walked out of my office and watch my soldier salute and give a greeting of the day.

Long story I know but I believe your intentions were correct and with time you'll know how to handle these situations differently in the Unit you belong too.

Response by Sgt Chad Myra made Nov 20 at 2019 10:22 PM

Sgt Chad Myra — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 22:22:17 -0500

As an Enlisted member I can say you were in the right. Sadly, there's no way of correcting someone without being a little bit rude.

Response by Sgt James Gross made Nov 21 at 2019 6:27 PM

Sgt James Gross — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:27:58 -0500

I would have asked politely why she didn’t salute, and then requested the salute. If she still refused to salute then I would have requested her CO’s name and rank and talked to him about it.

Response by SGT Larry Blosser made Nov 21 at 2019 9:25 PM

SGT Larry Blosser — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 21:25:14 -0500

More than 50 years ago I was an E-5 patient at the "Old" Walter Reed for followup treatment after eye surgery for the wound that got me a Purple Heart in the Nam. Of necessity, both eyes had dilating drops daily. One sunny afternoon, when I was walking between buildings, wearing clip-on sunglasses over my regular sunglasses, and with tears rolling down my cheeks, I was stopped by a Medical Corps Captain (female, not that it matters) and given a royal a** chewing for not saluting. Circumstances were, I thought, pretty obvious and that was one case where the officer might have let it pass.

Response by SPC Leonel De La Cruz made Nov 22 at 2019 2:40 AM

SPC Leonel De La Cruz — Fri, 22 Nov 2019 02:40:39 -0500

There is no other way but directly and to the point. Since when has the soft touch become part of our military. You speak to warriors with strength and civilians with kid gloves. I'm surprised you didn't drop this private. You're not gonna do our country any favors by treating military personnel like civilians.

Response by SSG James Green made Nov 22 at 2019 2:12 PM

SSG James Green — Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:12:59 -0500

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the military custom of saluting goes all the way back to the medieval period of history. When a Knight approached another Knight or other noble person, they would be required to raise the visor of their helmet to expose their identity and to display their empty sword hand. This was the way to demonstrate that they are a friend and they come in peace.

Response by SSgt Paula L Glover made Nov 22 at 2019 2:16 PM

SSgt Paula L Glover — Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:16:58 -0500

You did it the right way. You asked a question about it.

Response by SSG James Green made Nov 22 at 2019 11:22 PM

SSG James Green — Fri, 22 Nov 2019 23:22:24 -0500

Retired SSG James R. Green, U, S. Army. I don't know what happened to my other posting, Correct me if I'm wrong but essentially it was an explanation of the military practice of rendering the hand salute. It dates back to the Medieval period of history. When a Knight, whether on horse back or on foot, approached another Knight or a person of nobility, said Knight would raise his helmet visor with his right hand to display his face to identify as friendly. By using his right hand he also displayed no weapon in his hand. This act of raising the right hand and bringing it to ones forehead how the hand salute began. It was intended to be an act of mutual respect. does anyone want to correct me?

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Nov 24 at 2019 10:04 AM

1SG Ernest Stull — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 10:04:23 -0500

There is no excuse for not saluting an officer,Just as there is no excuse for not saluting the Flag when it is being presented or during Retreat, but as always someone will always lower the standards. I am old school so I would have said hey numnuts come here what you didn't see the two officers there, or are you blind. Now salute them and move out. and if I offended any one get over it buttercup.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2019 1:18 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 13:18:46 -0500

You did right. The only time in my career I was stopped was at Camp Pendleton. My battalion CO, a LtCol was approaching me after he had been jogging. He was dressed in a tee shirt and had no cover. As we were passing he stopped me (politely) and why I didn’t salute. I told him I didn’t know he was an officer. He reached for his head and realized he wasn’t covered with his rank. He said “carry on, I was just testing you”. I was kind of scared at the time, but was assured by my squad leader everything was ok.

Response by CPL Justin Higgins made Nov 24 at 2019 2:15 PM

CPL Justin Higgins — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:15:05 -0500

In my honest opinion the proper regulation concerning this matter is always what is appropriate. However utilizing situational awareness and properly reading the situation is also key. Notice your rank is similar and neither one of you is an NCO. Had you been an NCO then corrective action would always be necessary whether or not the Major approved.

Response by SSG Alfred Woods made Nov 24 at 2019 2:24 PM

SSG Alfred Woods — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:24:26 -0500

Ok, the Major may have been speaking about the way the Lt. was addressed and it would seem as though the Major's sense of directions as to the military courtesy would be in question, not to mention, the Major may have a liking towards the female Lt. So, from that sense, aggressiveness would not be in question and the PFC, should have been stopped and informed of his\her duties to recognize an Officer, with greetings, by rendering a salute. Information of unit and chain of command from the PFC, should have been gathered and the chain of command be notified of the incident, should actions be warranted. Also, sense the Major felt there was too much aggressiveness in question of what happened, perhaps his chain of command would want to know why he wasn't willing to ensure soldiers remain compliant to the UCMJ.

Response by SPC Russ Bolton made Nov 25 at 2019 1:03 AM

SPC Russ Bolton — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 01:03:07 -0500

I would be very respectful to say that they aren't saluting the person just showing the respect for rank

Response by SSG Michael Doolittle made Nov 25 at 2019 1:43 AM

SSG Michael Doolittle — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 01:43:44 -0500

Not being a career military, I will leave that one up to the rest of you... But in my 8 years, I saw far too many very aggressive responses to that, most of the time I would suggest that the failure is not a disrespect, but an oversight when we are busy in our heads and walking is more instinctual than deliberate... Today on the streets you can get run into by a digital head not even being present in the space they are traversing...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2019 10:53 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 10:53:32 -0500

Maybe the PFC didnt see him ? idk how the situation went, but i had a similar situation when i was a PFC i walked by a Marine officer and i couldn't see the rank(I hate Marine uniforms because of this) so i just didnt salute and some Sgt tried to chew me out for it lol

Response by CPO Paul Klein made Nov 25 at 2019 11:02 AM

CPO Paul Klein — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 11:02:18 -0500

I see nothing wrong with the way you handled the situation. Too many courtesies and customs are ignored or disregarded without consequences. There’s nothing aggressive about holding people responsible for their actions (or inactions).

Response by SSG Patrick Williams made Nov 26 at 2019 12:38 AM

SSG Patrick Williams — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 00:38:41 -0500

This is b.s. and a part of the lack of discipline we are seeing in all branches today.

Response by LTC Doug Fenwick made Nov 26 at 2019 4:34 PM

LTC Doug Fenwick — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:34:39 -0500

First ask is your arm injured? When the reply is no the rip a new one. It reinforces attention to details and situational awareness. Happen to me as a brand new 2LT and I never missed a salute for the next 25 years!

Response by LCpl Jason Keiser made Nov 27 at 2019 6:28 AM

LCpl Jason Keiser — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 06:28:46 -0500

Well i don not know about the other branches, however, in the much RESPECTED MARINE CORPS that would have been an immediate ass chewing with the utmost intensity.

Response by Maj Wayne Crist made Nov 27 at 2019 1:34 PM

Maj Wayne Crist — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:34:22 -0500

While serving in Korea in the early 80"s on a joint assignment I was walking with our Sgt Maj and an Army troop failed to salute me USAF Officer). Before I could say anything He said let show you how it is done. He proceeded to in a very calm voice to dress the soldier down and directed her to apologize and render the proper courtesy. Since it had become a problem with Army junior enlisted not to salute other branches and countries officers the senior NCO were marking it a point that infractions include a very public on the spot correction. After the incident was done the Sgt Maj turned to me and said the next one was mine. It did not take but another 100 ft and I got to demonstrate what I learned from his example. As he put it there is never an excuse to be unaware of your surroundings.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2019 3:23 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:23:33 -0500

'Aggressive'? The Major though you, and that, was aggressive? I'd have been, "WHERE IS YOUR SALUTE, SOLIDER?"

Response by CPT George Hupp made Dec 1 at 2019 4:44 PM

CPT George Hupp — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 16:44:28 -0500

The major was wrong! Hospital units are by nature relaxed in saluting. A lower rank should always salute an officer of a higher rank not only courtesy but historically pride and institution.

Response by CPT George Hupp made Dec 1 at 2019 4:48 PM

CPT George Hupp — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 16:48:05 -0500

A soldier should always (quietly) pull the soldier aside and remind the soldier of proper military customs and courtesies.

Response by CW5 Ivan Murdock made Dec 6 at 2019 7:29 AM

CW5 Ivan Murdock — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 07:29:34 -0500

The Army Maj was wrong - there is nothing aggressive about requiring the customs and courtesies be enforced. The PFC wasn't paying attention, given the benefit of the doubt, not out of disrespect so it was just a wake up for her.

Response by SFC James (Jim) R Brown made Dec 10 at 2019 9:08 PM

SFC James (Jim) R Brown — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:08:57 -0500

You were right and officer was wrong. I would have corrected the EM, sent him on his way and the I would have talked to the Major and informed him "with all due respect, Sir" the next time I am correcting someone please do not interrupt.

Response by SPC Lorraine Pickens made Dec 10 at 2019 10:46 PM

SPC Lorraine Pickens — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:39 -0500

DROP & GIVE ME 50! RRRALFW!

Response by SFC Rick LaFace made Dec 16 at 2019 9:15 AM

SFC Rick LaFace — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:15:37 -0500

You were right, leadership is aggressive in nature. The Maj has the luxury of focusing on His/her job and probably walking around with hands in pockets as well... When I was a young Private I stood at Parade Rest for Specialists. If your NCO's are spineless I'd just let it go.

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Dec 22 at 2019 4:55 PM

Sgt Ivan Boatwright — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 16:55:34 -0500

In today's military respect and earned privileges as an officer mean less than before. I assume the Major was a doctor. I am assuming the Lt. is a woman nurse. Based on these assumptions, the doctor is probably less interest in protocol as Hawkeye is in Mash the TV show. The nurse has worked hard for her degree and feels slighted. ( My total guesswork) In truth she is correct but the Major outranks her and anything said may go against her. I suggest that you say and do nothing. When you become a Major, remember the incident, act accordingly.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2019 10:35 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:35:51 -0500

There was time where where that would be an immediate write up and earning the PFC KP duty. Senior leadership needs to address this along with the NCO Corps.

Response by SSG William Morton made Dec 24 at 2019 4:40 PM

SSG William Morton — Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:40:10 -0500

Why would you worry about being, "aggressive". Rules are there for a reason. Said PFC should have been locked up and received the, "donkey bar b que", of her life. I would say the same if she had been a he. It should be done out of sight and hearing range of the officers. None the less it should be DONE.

Response by GySgt Marc Dickerson made Dec 24 at 2019 6:25 PM

GySgt Marc Dickerson — Tue, 24 Dec 2019 18:25:09 -0500

My response would have been to speak in a loud clear voice, "Your f***ing right arm better be god d*** broken because having your head up your a** is no excuse for not seeing this officer. You better render a proper salute right god d*** now before I make the rest of your day f****ing miserable." And if the officer with me said that I didn’t have to be so aggressive about it, I would have replied, "Yes Sir, you are correct."

Of course I retired during the last century, so you folks might do things differently these days.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2019 8:56 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Dec 2019 08:56:53 -0500

Addressing it is Extremely Important. Attention to detail is a trait the Military prides itself, and is one of many reason the service separates itself from Civilians. A PFC in many cases are new and inexperienced, I think what you did wasn't, however tact is also a Military trait as well.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2019 11:07 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Dec 2019 23:07:44 -0500

Tell them if you don't want to salute to just cross the street or turn your back to the officer before they get to close,

Response by SMSgt David A Asbury made Dec 26 at 2019 2:46 PM

SMSgt David A Asbury — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 14:46:27 -0500

We must correct things we see wrong on the spot or the issue is not taken with importance. Most people don't like to make waves but we must hold those in error responsible. You were right to correct on the spot. If the private did not see the rank, then let it be a lesson for them to be create more awareness around themselves. As for the Officer, enlisted personnel don't correct Officers, let that be another question sometime.

Response by LT T Alvah Lutz made Dec 26 at 2019 11:59 PM

LT T Alvah Lutz — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 23:59:57 -0500

I was a Navy LT, so maybe I have a bias. I would have said, "Soldier (sailor), stop where you are. These gentlemen rate a salute from you." No sarcasm, no brow beating, just a "do it."

Response by SGT Perry Spencer made Dec 27 at 2019 6:07 AM

SGT Perry Spencer — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 06:07:01 -0500

SPC Khyle Ball, We were all trained to salute no matter the service affiliation. First off is you cannot change has happened. I would have responded to the officer with yes sir and dropped the matter for the moment. Then I would have made it a point to understand what was written in AR 600-25 then I would have found out how that corresponds to the UMCJ. Article 88 is a catchall which is commonly used. Then you could revisit the incident if you chose. In any case you will be better prepared to address the situation if it ever arises again. One thing is you can't correct the code if you do not know the code. Funny thing is we are all taught to salute and taken what we are told to what ever limit we feel is necessary to enforce it.

My advise to you is take this as a learning experience and equip yourself for the next encounter by learning the military requirements and what steps you can take if this requirement is not adhered to. Only then can you understand how to proceed if this ever happens again. Don't get me wrong a person can never know all the regulations but you can learn the ones that come up the most and that are important to you.

Response by SFC Mark Klaers made Dec 27 at 2019 8:24 AM

SFC Mark Klaers — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 08:24:57 -0500

I would've excused myself from the officers, caught up to the troop in question, and in a normal tone "locked her up." Quickly informed her of her infraction, got acknowledgement back from her that she understand her error , released her and moved on.

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Dec 27 at 2019 8:22 PM

MSG Allan Davis — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 20:22:27 -0500

You were in the right and I for one am proud to hear we still have soldiers who hold others to the standard. It’s becoming a rare thing.

Response by SFC George Simons made Dec 28 at 2019 4:04 PM

SFC George Simons — Sat, 28 Dec 2019 16:04:39 -0500

I wouldn't say that was aggressive but what do l know, I'm just a retired SFC.

Response by 1SG Andrew Stella made Dec 29 at 2019 1:11 PM

1SG Andrew Stella — Sun, 29 Dec 2019 13:11:27 -0500

you wont be able to correct them, not with the members in service now, seems like they are all whiners, if you get firm with them they will say you are harrassing them and you will be reprimanded not them. The military has changed, no more discipline anymore, they will be offended.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Dec 30 at 2019 12:35 AM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 00:35:06 -0500

Reminds me of one time I was at a training facility. Some Ensign had taken it upon himself to make life hard on a few of our classmates, no idea why he singled them out, but he was constantly finding fault with their salutes, uniform, etc. Worse he was not even assigned to our school. Well after a few days we happened to spy him coming down the street in front of the schools building. We spread out so we were a long line about 15 paces apart, each saluting in turn, and of course him returning each salute.

We discovered that the road was the shortest way back to BOQ and so he passed on a regular schedule. We made it a point to be outside to greet him every time possible. Other classes caught wind and joined in the fun, with at least 50 going out of their way to salute him one day. That was the last day any of us saw him.... Problem solved.

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Dec 30 at 2019 1:11 AM

LTC Lee Bouchard — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 01:11:28 -0500

It was not stated if the Maj. was a Medical Officer or not. It may make a difference. Most, not all, are direct commissioned, as are most Jag. Officers, and are not as disciplined/educated in customs and courtesies as others are. (No offence to anyone) They may not take the same approach as an E-4 or an OCS graduate.
Medical and Jag Officers are not there to maintain good order and Discipline! They are specialists in their trade. That is not an excuse for not bringing to the attention someone who does not render a salute when appropriate. Indoors or out. Local policy or not!
I can recall many occasions when someone much Jr. to me would pass by not saluting. My solution was to stop the individual and say. "I'm sorry Specialist or CPT.t but I failed to notice your right arm was broken". (With a smile on my face) A salute was always given and often with a smile returned.
The trick is to be able to make a correction without being a jerk. In a serious training environment as in Basic, AIT, Air Borne and Ranger Training etc. expect failure to salute to have unpleasant consequences. With my boot up your rectal orifice. In some schools there is no rank and no salutes are exchanged. Everyone gets to eat the same dirt with worms included.

About Direct Commissioned Medical and Jag. Officers in a combat environment. Read and Comment.

Situation: After two days of contact and loosing most of your platoon, you are the only NCO standing.
Everyone senior to you is a medical casualty or dead. You are a combat arms NCO E-5. Only one officer is among the survivors and a LTC. medical Surgeon. You are no longer Combat Effective as an unit. MISSION: Get back to friendly lines to take care of your wounded, refit and rearm.

Who is in command? You or the LTC?

Do you salute when the enemy can see who you are saluting?

(This based on an actual event in WW ll)

Response by SPC Daniel Rule made Dec 30 at 2019 1:04 PM

SPC Daniel Rule — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 13:04:03 -0500

You were right to be aggressive. It’s our job to uphold the military code of behavior. If the major wants to be lax about it that’s on him, you did what was right.

Response by LCpl Marshall Tierney made Dec 30 at 2019 6:12 PM

LCpl Marshall Tierney — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 18:12:39 -0500

50 years ago in the Marines, you would start with the phrase " Hey Dumbass

Response by SGT Ken Houston made Jan 1 at 2020 7:11 PM

SGT Ken Houston — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 19:11:03 -0500

I ran into this as a 3 days out of basic army PV2 at DLI. I failed to salute a Navy Lt. Actually I never saw him, but anyway instead of it going to my E5 class leader it went to my SFC Platoon SGT. I got chewed for it but at the end of the day the SFC spaced us all out so that the LT had to salute each one of us individually. The school area was a no cover no salute area the next day. I did apologize to the LT and found out he was not the one who had an issue with it as he had never seen me either. He was over the Russian school and was a very nice guy. He sought us out often wanting to know how we felt about our training and wanting to know if we had any suggestions that might improve it. Later as an NCO I had to correct this very thing a time or two. I always took them aside and explained their mistake. I never observed it where I thought it was anything other than an honest mistake. If I had felt it was done out of disrespect it would have been an entirely different situation.

Response by CPL John McCulley made Jan 2 at 2020 4:14 PM

CPL John McCulley — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 16:14:18 -0500

In the Infantry especially when I was in a Ranger Bn, the proper way to correct someone who failed to salute an officer, was to "make them push Georgia down to Florida", i.e. pushups, you pick the number of repetitions. My second enlistment was in the medical corps as a Cardiac Specialist & I was stationed at Fitzsimons Army Medical Center. The expectations & means of correction are definitely lower in those duty assignments, sadly, in my opinion. However, even at the medical center, I always maintained the same standards & expected them of those around me. By the way, not a good plan to become a popular person!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2020 6:50 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Jan 2020 06:50:25 -0500

You did the exact correct thing...unless you came off like a Marine DI to a recruit.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2020 12:03 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 00:03:33 -0500

What you said is completely within your right, however, what tone did you use...were you assertive or did you yell at her?? But the wording was perfect.

Response by MSgt Jesse Tiede made Jan 9 at 2020 6:49 PM

MSgt Jesse Tiede — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 18:49:33 -0500

You should have locked her up, and gotten the names of her CC and 1st Shirt! This kind of inappropriate behavior is easy to get out of hand, unless you FIX IT, RIGHT NOW! Sure, she'll cry about how mean you are to her troopies, but, one thing for sure, SHE will never miss another salute! just one SNCO's opinion...

Response by MSgt Jesse Tiede made Jan 9 at 2020 6:52 PM

MSgt Jesse Tiede — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 18:52:17 -0500

Oh, wait, I didn't notice that you're a low ranking enlisted, SPC! My previous advice still stands, but, SHAME ON THOSE OFFICERS who just wanted to blow it off! You need to have a chat with your Supervisor, and have him/her talk to this Major, and point out the error of "Not Aggressive enough"...

Response by Maj Dale Smith made Jan 18 at 2020 4:15 PM

Maj Dale Smith — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 16:15:28 -0500

Keep in mind that medical, chaplin and JAG corps are not line officers. The problem here is the Army Major didn't think much about it. Good military discipline is imperative and the PFC should have been corrected. The Major should have waited to "countermand" what you did in private. Non line officers tend to be what are called "90 day wonders". In three months they learn how to march, salute and all the military courtesies of what used to be FM 100-45 and AFM 30-30. I know these have been superceeded, but there is a current equivolent. There is a happy medium between "MAJ Frank Burns" and "CPT Hawkeye Pierce".

Response by SGT William Booker made Jan 25 at 2020 3:54 AM

SGT William Booker — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 03:54:10 -0500

I would talk to him once

Response by SGT Everett M. Cheney made Jan 25 at 2020 11:05 PM

SGT Everett M. Cheney — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 23:05:55 -0500

In the situation you outlined according to AR600-25 saluting is required and expected not just ok if the sm “remembers to”, or is paying enough attention etc. Military customs and courtesy’s , standards and required conduct exists to drive the point home that respect and compliance is REQUIRED not suggested or at the free will of the individual sm. Just as it is required to follow orders given , as they are ORDERS not suggestions. Team work , cooperation , immediate compliance are all absolutely required for mission success and completion . The military regardless of branch or rank is about the business of protecting our nation and its interests against all enemies foreign or domestic up to and including the death of these enemies as needed. This does not get done without absolute adherence to every detail, every button unbuttoned , every failure to respect the rank , every salute ducked because the sm thinks they are smart enough to secretly dodge the required respect and blow off saluting because of some personal defect or attitude out of whack , every order shortchanged or disregarded , every higher ranking soldier or officer treated in a disrespectful manner all plays to a weakened disrespectful service that when those moments that demand the highest level of response arise we have systematically set the sm up for failure by not requiring the absolute maximum in respect and compliance at all times. Any thing less is weak and potentially damaging to the service as a whole.

Response by CW3 Chris Rossignoll made Jan 26 at 2020 4:41 AM

CW3 Chris Rossignoll — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 04:41:13 -0500

You were in the right. Being aggressive in the correction will bring awareness of the soldiers surroundings to their attention and it may help them focus on “attention to details”. I have read several of the postings for this and it seems to be a trend. The enlisted and Warrants agree with the aggressiveness but many officers preferred the softer, less aggressive approach. This was both a military custom and courtesy but also a training situation. Today, soldiers need to be more aggressive and pay more attention to details of their surroundings more than ever before.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2020 10:05 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 10:05:11 -0500

Just pull said service member aside and say "hey, did you notice those officers you passed without saluting? ..make sure you're paying attention when passing other service members!" That simple. Being stopped on the spot and called out is embarassment enough for most. I've stopped fellow service members plenty of times and the soldier/sailor/airman immediately felt wrong and offered to correct themselves. Most were visibly disturbed and personally alarmed upon being put on notice. While "juniors" are taught to salute, often times they feel disrespectful staring down everyone they pass. We all have to get used to doing that! Just point it out so they "get it", being disrespectful or overly harsh does NOTHING to address the root cause - unless of course you are CERTAIN it was an intentional slight! (Doubtful). I was accused of not saluting an officer shortly after leaving basic training and was dressed down for it. I appreciated the reminder, however I NEVER even saw the officers in question. Whomever was angered by it swore I looked them dead in the eye? Moral of the story is that you don't need to force a jagged pill down the throats of subordinates..give the medicine, but no need to be destructive when "teaching".

Response by Maj Robert Larkowski made Jan 26 at 2020 10:37 AM

Maj Robert Larkowski — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 10:37:32 -0500

Respect should be shown. As long as the officer was not being a jerk in demanding the proper respect then speaking with the PFC, then all is good.

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Jan 26 at 2020 5:51 PM

SFC Oddie Brown — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 17:51:01 -0500

I know how I would handle it but that is not important. I will leave this here. I had a CSM one time talk about the importance of police call. He said every time you walk by a piece of trash and don't pick it up, you just set a new standard. Letting a soldier walk by an officer and he is not corrected, before long that courtesy will be gone. On the spot correction, butt hurt feelings be damned.

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Jan 26 at 2020 11:51 PM

LCpl Michael Cappello — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 23:51:10 -0500

You were absolutely correct. I once made the same mistake. I was asked by the offended officer if he didn't rate a salute, a "By your leave sir", or at least a F%$K YOU. I immediately snapped to, rendered a salute, and apologized. We are ALL FNG's at one time.

Response by MCPO Mark Siewinski made Jan 27 at 2020 11:45 AM

MCPO Mark Siewinski — Mon, 27 Jan 2020 11:45:51 -0500

Grow a pair... the both of you. The PFC was in the wrong. You corrected the PFC. It could be said a million different ways. WTF!
V/R,
SBCM [SWCC/SW/PJ]

Response by SSG James Stodola made Jan 27 at 2020 8:44 PM

SSG James Stodola — Mon, 27 Jan 2020 20:44:28 -0500

Excuse yourself from the presence of the officers and address the PFC as to why they did not render the proper customs and courtesies. No need to be overbearing about it, it is a simple question that requires nothing more than a simple reminder. Now if the PFC is a jerk about it then you can step up your game.

Response by MG Stephen Hogan made Jan 27 at 2020 9:33 PM

MG Stephen Hogan — Mon, 27 Jan 2020 21:33:01 -0500

It is an embarrassing situation for everyone involved, and has happened to me,-both ways- and I have been embarrassed- both ways. I'd say that the Major's comment was based upon the fact that he was embarrassed, but ultimately I think you did the right thing. When this happens to me, I don't wait, and pop the salute first- watch the kid jump. Strong method to make the point. Quick, too.

Response by CW4 Jeffrey Sumners made Jan 28 at 2020 1:35 PM

CW4 Jeffrey Sumners — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 13:35:07 -0500

On the spot corrected BY standing that SM at attention holding their solute while you verbally corret them for an extended period before returning said solute. If the SM is indifferent to the correction, recommend to the command that their place of duty for the next week be in Class A opening the door and saluting all officers entering and exiting the Post HQ.

Response by Cpl Don McCarty Jr made Jan 29 at 2020 10:36 AM

Cpl Don McCarty Jr — Wed, 29 Jan 2020 10:36:23 -0500

as an NCO in the Marine Corps, i was taught to pull the junior grade to the side, instruct them on proper saluting of officers etiquette and send them on their way. i do not see any problem in in the SPC asking the PFC the question, the PFC made a mistake . how is the aggressive?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2020 8:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 08:25:00 -0500

Back in the day....
I would pull the soldier aside and in a low voice explain that there is only ONE thing in the world that an enlisted person can make an officer do - and that is to return my salute. "By God," I would say, "they wanted to be an officer, and I'm gonna remind them that they have to return my salute!" That would usually bring a spark to the eye and action to the right arm.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2020 8:54 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 08:54:45 -0500

At the same time, though, if I have one aggravation about saluting it's this: The 'Officer Head Dip Salute.' A proper salute is rendered with the upper arm parallel to the ground and the fingertips meeting the eyebrow and the cap visor. It bothers me even today in my retired, enlisted state when I see an officer raise his hand part way to a proper salute and dip his brow to reach his fingertips. Sir or Ma'am, it's a two way street. If I render a salute, please return with a proper, buy-the-book, military salute!

Response by CMSgt Bruce Taylor made Jan 30 at 2020 10:05 AM

CMSgt Bruce Taylor — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 10:05:57 -0500

They just need a couple of days of extra duty practicing.

Response by CMSgt Bruce Taylor made Jan 30 at 2020 10:06 AM

CMSgt Bruce Taylor — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 10:06:41 -0500

But you were spot on! Get in their butt, it won't happen again.

Response by Capt Bill Chada made Jan 30 at 2020 6:19 PM

Capt Bill Chada — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:19:28 -0500

I was always taught "Praise in public, correct in private", so it would be best to call aside and correct her in private, face to face.

Response by CPO John Moran made Jan 31 at 2020 6:41 PM

CPO John Moran — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 18:41:13 -0500

Hey boot, didn’t you learn how to salute in boot camp?

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Feb 1 at 2020 9:21 PM

MSgt Eric Roseberry — Sat, 01 Feb 2020 21:21:42 -0500

Hmm, bit passive aggressive for me. Thank you for the corrective action.

Response by MSgt Jeff Greene made Feb 2 at 2020 11:16 AM

MSgt Jeff Greene — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 11:16:10 -0500

As a retired USAF First Sergeant I probably would have been more aggressive than the SPC. It doesn't matter which service you are in or the officers are in - YOU SALUTE. I would have been looking for his supervisor to provide remedial training.

Response by LTC Charles "Pappy" Patchin made Feb 2 at 2020 9:24 PM

LTC Charles "Pappy" Patchin — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 21:24:04 -0500

Well done. You were correct to call the PFC on military courtesy. It is not aggressive.
I notice you are a SPC. Since neither of the O's said anything, it was not your responsibility.
They were, I'm guessing, medical types and probably were baffled by the BS and frightened when you corrected someone without apologizing to the offender first for correcting her.
NEXT
You do what is correct and salute when appropriate.
Leave the ass chewing to the one / group the offense was against.
Apparently, the Major and LT do not think they have earned the PFCs respect, although their rank is entitled to a salute. One salutes the rank not the wearer.

Response by SSG Brian Wilber made Feb 3 at 2020 8:49 AM

SSG Brian Wilber — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 08:49:57 -0500

If we have to handle such a simple correction as this with kid gloves, we have gone too soft. What does the Major think a squad leader should do if one of his/her Soldiers is standing out in the open in a firefight? Should he/she politely ask the Soldier to take cover?
I can't imagine what basic is like anymore. "Now, Soldiers, it's 10 AM and we have a lot to do. Please, put your phones away and get out of bed."

Response by CAPT Randall Martin made Feb 7 at 2020 9:27 PM

CAPT Randall Martin — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 21:27:21 -0500

Maybe it's my enlisted background, but as an officer whenever I fail to get a salute I salute first - this never fails to make the appropriate correction in the most mutually respectful and expeditious manner.

Response by CPL Peter King made Feb 19 at 2020 5:46 PM

CPL Peter King — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 17:46:51 -0500

That’s the appropriate way to handle it.

Response by CPL Peter King made Feb 19 at 2020 5:47 PM

CPL Peter King — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 17:47:25 -0500

That is the appropriate way to handle the situation

Response by Sgt Robert Sackett made Feb 19 at 2020 9:31 PM

Sgt Robert Sackett — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 21:31:03 -0500

You do not salute in a hospital area. But being outside they should have but force of habit of not doing it inside probably took over.

Response by LTC Pete Moore made Feb 20 at 2020 4:16 PM

LTC Pete Moore — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 16:16:05 -0500

The Major deserves to be corrected for his ill advice. The Salute is about mutual respect. I was an enlisted soldier, an NCO and an Officer, I saluted first most of the time. The Major is wrong

Response by SrA Brett Stratton made Mar 1 at 2020 2:36 PM

SrA Brett Stratton — Sun, 01 Mar 2020 14:36:07 -0500

It happens. Maybe the private wasn't paying attention or they had their mind on something else. I usually say, "Officer present." They look around, realize one is present (the look in their eyes says all), and salute on the spot. Gotta remember not all enlisted are disrespectful little ass-caps. They're human too and sometimes their brains are just hard-wired to something else. Maybe something's going on with their child, or they're thinking about school, or maybe it's work-related. You don't know (and it's really none of your business, right?). Just give a quick heads-up. Simple and no harm done.

Only time you should talk like that is when they're obviously giving guff. THEN they need to be put into place. Until then: innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around.

Response by CPT Wayne Price made Mar 9 at 2020 12:20 AM

CPT Wayne Price — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 00:20:22 -0400

I find nothing wrong with following military custom and discipline. CPT Wayne Price

Response by CAPT Jim Coulson made Mar 22 at 2020 6:18 PM

CAPT Jim Coulson — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 18:18:42 -0400

I had that happen a few times over the course of 30 yrs. I usually stopped them, rendered a salute and held it until they returned it. I would say "a salute is rendering MUTUAL respect for OUR service." Then I'd drop it and thank them for being in our Navy or Marine Corps. Usually it was a very junior person and they just didn't understand that we rendered courtesies like that.
Usually I got a "uh, sorry sir, I wasn't paying attention" or some other excuse.

The WORST case I ever saw was a Midshipman 2/c at USNA. He was talking on the phone, saw me and turned away from me (06 in uniform). You could see the anger in his face when I waited until he ended his call and held my salute. In his case I told him "We always render military courtesies unless in combat. Some day you'll earn an enlisted man's salute. Always return it crisply and with good humor, no matter how lousy you feel. He's earned your respect and if you shirk something like a salute you'll lose his respect."

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2020 5:16 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:16:16 -0400

Praise in public, correct in private.

Response by CWO3 John Bails made Apr 12 at 2020 5:28 PM

CWO3 John Bails — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:53 -0400

You were correct to calmly address the PFC.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2020 11:13 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:13:35 -0400

I find the best way to start those conversations is with a "Hey Motherf***er" and go from there.

Response by 1SG J. Shannon Lewis made Apr 14 at 2020 6:41 PM

1SG J. Shannon Lewis — Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:41:05 -0400

Should have just lit her ass up. Sometimes that's just what everyone needs.

Response by PFC Guy Sherr made Apr 14 at 2020 7:49 PM

PFC Guy Sherr — Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:49:50 -0400

Happened to me ages ago. I apologized for not saluting to the Commissioned Officer, while saluting. The E-7 that was with her asked if I was okay (I was on a pain pill that messed with my vision so badly I was looking at the ground). I said that was no excuse, and the E-7 said words to me I hear to this day: "Stay alert, stay alive soldier".

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2020 3:34 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:34:48 -0400

F that agressive BS. Drop the PFC for push ups and maybe put her on KP for about a week

Response by SFC James (Jim) R Brown made Apr 29 at 2020 11:55 AM

SFC James (Jim) R Brown — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:55:32 -0400

There is no other way.

Response by Sgt Jeff Martin made May 31 at 2020 7:07 PM

Sgt Jeff Martin — Sun, 31 May 2020 19:07:25 -0400

My first question would be WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION? You do realize that was two officers that passed you without you rendering the proper respect and saluting them? The only way I would say nothing is if it was an officer that passed. A PFC has no reason or right not to salute his/her superior officer.

Response by SFC Steven Hetletvedt made Sep 12 at 2020 9:26 PM

SFC Steven Hetletvedt — Sat, 12 Sep 2020 21:26:47 -0400

Pull the soldier off to the side and remind them of customs and courtesies. Holding the standard is what makes us military personnel and keeping that state of mind. The more you let lower personnel to lose their grip the worse it is going to get when eventually someone will say what is the big deal.

Response by SP6 M. R. Teeters made Sep 24 at 2020 5:51 PM

SP6 M. R. Teeters — Thu, 24 Sep 2020 17:51:10 -0400

You weren't aggressive.
Aggressive: " Hey!! Sh*t for brains!! Did you not see these two SUPERIOR OFFICERS
(Capitalization denotes speaking at a perceived auditory decibel range akin to the noise level present at the detonation of a 10 kiloton nuclear warhead)!!
Now drop and shove the f*ckin' Earth off its normal orbital path until we are over your perceived horizon!!"

Non-Aggressive:
"Do enlisted soldiers not salute officers anymore?"

Response by Sgt Mike Jacobi made Sep 25 at 2020 12:42 AM

Sgt Mike Jacobi — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 00:42:35 -0400

Praise in public, correct in private. It is one of the duties of leadership to teach juniors. One on one where possible is best

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Oct 18 at 2020 6:21 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 18:21:41 -0400

You could have asked soldier if they noticed the officer's that she just past. Then again was you in a no solute area?

Response by PO3 Dale Olson made Oct 21 at 2020 8:35 AM

PO3 Dale Olson — Wed, 21 Oct 2020 08:35:56 -0400

Protocol.... you need this to maintain the relationship between officers and enlisted.

Response by CPL Michael Kucik made Nov 18 at 2020 4:39 PM

CPL Michael Kucik — Wed, 18 Nov 2020 16:39:24 -0500

Major was wrong. You do have to be aggressive. You are in the military. The point of the military is to fight wars. Whatever you DO in the military is immaterial, you are all in support of war fighting. Remarks complete.

Response by SP5 Richard Welch made Jan 11 at 2021 9:48 PM

SP5 Richard Welch — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 21:48:37 -0500

No, you should point it out as humanly as possible. I remember a PFC getting reamed by an LT for not saluting him.

Response by SSG Elyzabeth Cromer made Feb 1 at 2021 6:45 PM

SSG Elyzabeth Cromer — Mon, 01 Feb 2021 18:45:27 -0500

As a fairly new Army Reserve SPC assigned to a unit that drilled on a Navy base I was very skittish about saluting the wrong people. I knew my Army rank and how to quickly identify officers but trying to differentiate Navy officers from Senior Enlisted with the sun in your eyes, and all the different uniforms. I got yelled at by a Petty Officer for saluting him one day, the next day I apparently missed a Captain in a group of NCO's because one of them watched to see what building I entered, and I received a phone call from from him as I was standing at the front desk waiting for to pick up the keys I had been sent for. I stopped leaving the building on foot if at all possible after that when I was there during the week. (Changed into uniform after I got to work, went right out to "our" parking lot at lunch, changed before leaving at the end of the day.) A PFC may not have even been to basic yet if they are in the delayed entry program. Correct them yes, but try to avoid embarrassing them, shaming them does not help the learning process.
Eventually I did start leaving the building at lunch with some of the older junior officers and junior NCO's, they would give me a "heads up" or "you're good" when a bunch of navy in khaki was headed in our direction. Between that and volunteering with the Sea Cadets I now know Navy rank and uniforms, but as a new Specialist it was just one more thing some Sergeant to yell at you about. Officers don't usually bother to make the lives of Junior Enlisted soldiers miserable, (at least not intentionally).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2021 9:46 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 21:46:31 -0500

You were justified asking that Soldier why she didn’t salute and all service members should question such disrespect, even though at times it may be unintentional.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2021 9:48 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 21:48:02 -0500

Lastly, how you approach the SPC is important. Which should be carried out with the utmost professionalism and professional respect.

Response by PO3 Dale Olson made Feb 25 at 2021 9:08 AM

PO3 Dale Olson — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:08:58 -0500

Perfect answer. A lesson I learned years ago. Correct failures like this smartly and the kesson is learned.

Response by CPT Wayne Price made Jul 21 at 2021 4:57 PM

CPT Wayne Price — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 16:57:19 -0400

I believe the comments was appropriate. When stationed at Fort Knox we had many long convoys with rank displayed on the vehicles. On the way to my lab/office an E1 faked to salute vehicles with ranks up to O.7. I was tired but saluted as appropriate . When the convoy passed I called to the rainee. He came as called, asked why no salute.. I asked his name and unit and walked off to the nearby hospital. After a few calls I called his unit and my call was tanferred up the chain of commandI reached he commanding officer who told me to meet him at the Officers Club at 1700 hrs. He looked surprised when a medical service officer with spit shined shoes and crisp khaki Uniforme showed up. He looked surprised and bought me a drink. He explained this trainee was a racial agitator and everyone else was fearful of repercussions. I assured him that was the least of my fears and he had his Sergeant Major meet me to sign the documents. He stated he would proceed with an Article 15 and it would likely be refused and aCourts Martial would follow. Much to our surprise tha “radical “. Trainee accepted the non judicial punishment. When I had enlisted I knew there would be times of fear, and you never let control you, you acted on-site of it. WaynePrice

Response by SSG Robert Velasco made Jul 31 at 2021 6:28 PM

SSG Robert Velasco — Sat, 31 Jul 2021 18:28:16 -0400

Yes do ask politely the pfc that you would appreciate a moment and take the pfc aside,know which standard you are referring to and remind 5he pfc of this for future reference. Should your c.o. witness you not leading, it might cost you, career wise later. It's a tradition you don't uphold I'm the field but on duty at least on post you do. Many officers have earned the respect and many enlisted men have carried on the time honored greeting of respect.

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Aug 2 at 2021 7:47 PM

LtCol Paul Bowen — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 19:47:36 -0400

Counsel the miscreant on what violation of ART 89 UCMJ will earn him/her.

Response by PO2 Christopher A. made Jun 5 at 2022 7:19 PM

PO2 Christopher A. — Sun, 05 Jun 2022 19:19:55 -0400

Like a first class petty officer corrected me when I was an E2..... "Hey! Are you stupid? Even I have to salute that guy!"

Response by SSgt David M. made Jun 22 at 2022 4:55 PM

SSgt David M. — Wed, 22 Jun 2022 16:55:00 -0400

A failure to Salute MUST be addressed on the spot! The Officer MUST be provided Military Respect for their rank. I would have locked the PFC's heels and no matter what another officer's response was! You, as an Officer Must require the show of respect by those serving in the Military regardless of which branch of service that are a part of. ;-) I SALUTE All My Fellow Veterans!!!

Response by SPC Tommy Helton made Feb 18 at 2023 5:25 AM

SPC Tommy Helton — Sat, 18 Feb 2023 05:25:43 -0500

I got lit up for this once, I was coming out of medical. I just woke up, and was sent back to the barrack’s. I couldn’t see, think,walk. But I sure got chewed, then they got me some help