What's your opinion when a National Guard soldier or reservist wears an active duty unit patch because they were attached ?

2015-12-15T19:55:36-05:00

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 8:02 PM

2015-12-15T20:02:05-05:00

What difference does it make really? As long as it's authorized

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 8:02 PM

2015-12-15T20:02:13-05:00

Do they have orders authorizing them to wear it? If they do, I don't see a problem with it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 8:27 PM

2015-12-15T20:27:02-05:00

I may be biased because I'm a National Guardsman, but I don't see the issue. During the period of service for which the patch is authorized, the national guardsman/reservist and the active duty soldier are both on federal active duty.

Response by SGT Stephen Gober made Dec 15 at 2015 8:54 PM

2015-12-15T20:54:48-05:00

And you've been in long enough to know it's authorized SFC Jim Mergott. Good to see you're still around brother.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 8:58 PM

2015-12-15T20:58:25-05:00

What is the issue? If the patch is authorized it is no different than an AC Soldier wearing the patch of a unit they are attached to.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Dec 15 at 2015 8:58 PM

2015-12-15T20:58:26-05:00

If it's authorized what's the issue? Personal feelings aside, regulations are regulations.

Response by SGT Lawrence Corser made Dec 15 at 2015 9:09 PM

2015-12-15T21:09:35-05:00

depends on how the represent it, such as act like they were part of the unit and went to war with them and what not. A lot of active guys(myself also) have patches from other units but never went to that base.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Dec 15 at 2015 9:41 PM

2015-12-15T21:41:56-05:00

As long as they are authorized to do so, it is fine. In my case, I was attached to 4th BCT, 10th MTN, 3rd BCT, 82nd ABN, and 3rd ID in Iraq and Afghanistan. I have proudly worn all three patches on my right sleeve and the CSIB on my ASUs. For those assignments, I was an individual augmentee so was not part of an attached unit. I had actual orders attaching me.

Response by SPC Rick Barnes made Dec 15 at 2015 10:52 PM

2015-12-15T22:52:27-05:00

When attached they did earn the right to wear it. They did combat under that command and at the point of attachment they are under title 10 orders.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 11:15 PM

2015-12-15T23:15:43-05:00

My understanding of paragraph 6 this Alaract is that that NG soldiers must wear their own unit's patch. I wear the 157th MEB patch, even though I wasn't under them on deployment. I have a memorandum in Iperms authorizing an AD unit, but I don't wear it. Many other NG troops interpret it that because they have the memorandum, they'll wear what they want.
http://asc.army.mil/docs/policy/alaract_055_2007_wear_appearance_uniforms_ssi_fwts_28mar07.pdf

Response by COL Charles Williams made Dec 15 at 2015 11:20 PM

2015-12-15T23:20:54-05:00

I am OK with it. But, I also never really understood why most/many RC Soldiers (generally) wanted wear the patch of the AD unit they were assigned to vs. their own patch.

The rules have changed for combat patches (SSIFWS) more than once... As an example, in OIF 1 you could wear the patch of the unit were in support of. In OIF 06-08 the rule was, if you had a patch you wore on your left sleeve, that was also your combat patch. CSM Mellinger, CSM, MNFI, would stop random Soldiers and call them out if their left and right sleeve did not match. We actually had Guard and Reserve Units (the vast majority of our 8000 person TF) in our JTF who actually initiated Congressionals because of combat patches....

I actually like/d seeing combat patches for storied units like the 29th Infantry, 42nd Infantry etc.

But, my experience told me the vast majority of the RC Soldiers wanted to wear an active duty patch...

Does it really matter what patch you wear?

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 12:01 AM

2015-12-16T00:01:41-05:00

Is this really an issue? There have been Soldiers assigned to Marine units (who do not wear assignment patches) who wear Marine unit patches (like 1st Mar Div, etc). I called out a few Soldiers prior to 9-11 who had Marine patches on their right sleeves. At that time it was not authorized. Been out for a bit, but if memory serves me, are you not to wear the patch from the lowest echelon you were assigned to during a combat deployment? I'm actually authorized 4 different patches, but chose the AC brigade (12th CAB) because the other brigade we fell in under initially, was a hot mess. (36th CAB).

So I say to you, if the Soldier is authorized, does it really matter? Does it affect your pay or does it hurt your feelings?

Response by MAJ Alvin B. made Dec 16 at 2015 12:21 AM

2015-12-16T00:21:03-05:00

A solider is entitled to wear the patch (combat patch) of the unit in which said patch was earned. If they have more than one then they may choose which one to wear. DA determines which units are credited with combat service (what we used to call wartime service). In many cases the National Guard or Reserve unit authorized a shoulder sleeve insignia, does not get called up, only portions of the unit do, and therefore a National Guard or Reserve patch is not authorized for wear.
In virtually ever case the choice of which authorized patch to wear on the uniform is the choice of the individual soldier, not the unit.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 12:28 AM

2015-12-16T00:28:33-05:00

My personal opinion is that whatever patch a solider wore on their left shoulder while deployed should be the only patch they should be authorized to wear on their right. That said, regs are regs.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Dec 16 at 2015 12:39 AM

2015-12-16T00:39:15-05:00

I say wear your own units patch, show your pride for the ones you served with.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Dec 16 at 2015 1:06 AM

2015-12-16T01:06:57-05:00

During my last Deployment, I was attached to the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force for my first 3 months in theater. Because of that time I received orders authorizing me to wear the 2nd MEF patch o my right shoulder. I never put on the patch, the Marines I served with cannot not wear it so why should I have that right. With Army patches, wearing the unit you were attached to patch versus your own units is in a way taking away from your own units roll during that deployment, In many cases you have units that wear the unit attached to patch on the left arm as well, so definitely should get to wear it on the right as well. That is just my opinion

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 1:17 AM

2015-12-16T01:17:44-05:00

I think the question is a moot point because if it is authorized, then it doesn't matter.

However, I would bet that in 99.9% of cases, Soldiers are incorrectly wearing an active duty patch as their SSI-FWTS. Although people seem to believe that the ALARACT which came out a few years back was a new interpretation, it has been the law of the land period. Whatever you wore on your left you should wear on the right with a few exceptions.

That being said, any memo that you have doesn't legitimize or authorize you to wear a patch. It may give you good standing, but a memo that is going against a regulation doesn't make it any better.

Response by 2LT Earl Dean made Dec 16 at 2015 2:09 AM

2015-12-16T02:09:30-05:00

He stands by me and puts his butt on the line like I do then he should not only be my brother but should be allowed my patch to!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 2:13 AM

2015-12-16T02:13:31-05:00

Last week I saw a active duty Maj wearing the 45th Infantry patch. I asked him about it and he said he had been attached to them in Iraq and was authorized to wear it. As long as they're authorized to wear it I don't see a problem.

Response by 2LT Earl Dean made Dec 16 at 2015 2:46 AM

2015-12-16T02:46:13-05:00

If the man or woman puts their butts on the line with me and wants to wear the same patch I wear! I will rip mine off and give it to them! tHEY PUT THERE LIFE IN HARMS WAY WITH ME! Caps lock!

Response by SFC Terry Fortune made Dec 16 at 2015 9:30 AM

2015-12-16T09:30:36-05:00

I see no problem with it. If they earned it let them wear it.

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 16 at 2015 11:06 AM

2015-12-16T11:06:13-05:00

I have 5 combat patches I am authorized to wear. All from one tour in Iraq. You know why I have so many? Because AD guys rotated in and out and I spent almost 14 months in country. So while my wife was planning our divorce, us NG guys were getting passed around to different units. I earned every patch I got. While the BN was living it up at BIOP I was working out of FOBs/COBs and shitting in barrels. So yes, I deserve to wear my AD patches, but I only wear one, the 2ACR (Even as an MP I got my Spurs with them.)

Response by CSM David Heidke made Dec 16 at 2015 1:37 PM

2015-12-16T13:37:42-05:00

so they aren't supposed to wear a combat patch because they are NG or Reserves?

What about an active duty Soldier who was assigned to a NG / Reserve unit for a deployment? They didn't earn a patch?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 16 at 2015 4:29 PM

2015-12-16T16:29:27-05:00

Let me guess some folks are rejecting this notion?

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 4:35 PM

2015-12-16T16:35:04-05:00

Hmmm...the Navy simplifies it by not having Velcro (sorry, that was low...real low)

Seriously though...I've no idea what Army regs state. When I was playing "Dirt Sailor", RUMINT suggested that we rated (depending on where you were) the 1st ID patch, the 278th, etc...Personally, I knew that was bogus because there are huge differences between being TAD to someone's outfit, and actually being in that outfit...let alone service. We did skirt the regs a bit in the field (and looking back, I wish we hadn't), and came up with our own unit insignia-that's proudly on my bike jacket now.

I did come home with a rather nice and emotionally valuable collection of unit patches from the Soldiers I worked with...but they stay in the "I Love me Box".

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 7:05 PM

2015-12-16T19:05:48-05:00

This is something that varies wildly. I am not a fan of wearing a patch of a unit that you were attached too. If you have a MACOM, or Major Command, with you then you should wear that. The combat patch game is like pokemon now a days. It is not a collection to show off. So many soldiers, not just in the Guard, just want to be affiliated with a well known unit. If you become a part of that unit then that is fine but if you are with a BCT and you just want the patch for the Div you answer too then no.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Dec 16 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-12-16T21:24:51-05:00

As as DS, I once had a General tell me, "Drill, you're poll vaulting over fly shit". I think that goes the same for this thread!!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 8:55 PM

2015-12-17T20:55:04-05:00

This is a funny subject for Reserve and National Guard Soldiers. I often ask guys that are wearing multiple patches, as I can, if they have orders for the patch they are sporting. I have a published order for each of the two that I am authorized to wear. They are in my iperms. I would think that if they have that, they are authorized. I am the keeper of the standards, but don't want to cause a whole component of the Army to be pissed at me. Just saying.....Only my 2 cents.,

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Dec 18 at 2015 5:41 AM

2015-12-18T05:41:15-05:00

I think it's fine. When you see some odd NG patch and one you recognize or served with on the right its a good way to start up a conversation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 5:58 AM

2015-12-18T05:58:44-05:00

My personal opinion is this, regardless of the regulation. If a guard/reserve unit is deployed BN sized or larger then I feel you should wear the patch of that unit. If you’re in a CO/TRP/BRTY or smaller element and attacked to an active duty unit, then you should wear the active duty patch. While attached to a unit for wartime service you’re as much a part of that unit as anyone else. You’re definitely now part of that unit’s history.

Response by CSM Tony Bowen made Dec 18 at 2015 11:11 AM

2015-12-18T11:11:28-05:00

Every deployment I went on, we had Reservists attached to us. Couldn't have done it without them. Gives me pride to know they were proud to be a part of our team and draw blood with us. Patch up Boys and Girls.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 11:18 AM

2015-12-18T11:18:24-05:00

They actually changed it back in 2009, I believe, where reservists will wear their garrison command patch as a combat patch after a deployment.

Response by CPT Shawn Stewart made Dec 18 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-12-18T13:00:53-05:00

I am a retired army reservist. I was in Balad in 2004 and was attached to the 31st CSH and later that summer I was in Baqubah and I was attached to the 629th FST. Both assignments had me supporting the 1st Infantry Division. I have been authorized to wear the First ID patch and I do. If anyone thinks that I haven't earned the right to wear the patch you can kiss my ass. Frankly, it's an insult to suggest that my service or that of anyone is somehow worth less or diminished in any way because I was a Reservist when I was tapped to go.

Response by SFC Eric Duke made Dec 18 at 2015 1:03 PM

2015-12-18T13:03:21-05:00

I think its fine if its authorized. its funny you never see a guardsman wearing his own unit patch though

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Dec 18 at 2015 1:08 PM

2015-12-18T13:08:06-05:00

Because it is authorized, it really does not matter how I feel. But, if it was up to me, any company or larger unit, that deploys, should where the patch they have on their left shoulder. I see a lot where the NG / Reserve will opt for the AD patch over their own. Some of the reasons I have heard are;
1. It looks better
2. Division has a better storied history that ours.
3. Makes me look like I have served with the Division.

Now, I deployed only on AD so I really do not know the true reason for wanting to wear the AD patch. Now over my deployments my small detachments have be assigned to various units. I am authorized the 101st, 82nd, 10th MTN, 25th ID, CENTCOM and FORSCOM. I did periodically switch between patches, mostly just to mess with people. I would start the day with one patch and may switch the patch throughout the day. It was fun getting the double takes from people who would see me more than once a day.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 1:18 PM

2015-12-18T13:18:56-05:00

There isn't any opinion to it - regulations and policies on wear of the SSI-FWTS are pretty specific although most people (AC and RC) aren't aware of them and don't abide by them. If that is the patch that they are supposed to wear because it is the unit they were in (assigned/attached individually), then that is all that matters. On the other hand, just because a unit fell under, was assigned, attached, etc. to another unit doesn't authorize it to wear that higher unit's patch. The policies changed around 2007/2008 from wear the patch of the first unit above you while deployed that has their own patch (i.e. division, command, or separate brigade) to wear your own unit patch regardless of anything else.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Dec 18 at 2015 1:20 PM

2015-12-18T13:20:45-05:00

You only leave to responses, but I don't feel that is adequate. If the individual is augmenting an empty slot in an RA unit, does the tour with the unit, then why not? If for example you are in an NG, briefly attached to High Speed cool patch wearing unit for all of a few days to months and don't have much to do wit them then IMHO no (my unit briefly fell under the 3rd ID and the 101st for a short time at the end of our tour, some soldiers took that to mean they could wear those patches, I did not concur with their assessment of the situation). Now if you are below a BN size element and have to wear the patch of the unit your are supporting then, suck it up because they are authorized it.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Dec 18 at 2015 1:55 PM

2015-12-18T13:55:00-05:00

Who cares honestly. I was stuck during different points in the Stan wearing the 33rd from Illinois, 48th from Georgia, and the 69th NY. So if they're authorized to wear an AD unit patch, let em. No different when a RA Soldier is authorized to wear theirs. In the Stan when your BSO changes every four months and they want you to wear their patch, you don't complain, it's just a patch. I'm allowed to wear eight patches from being on an ETT. If I want I rotate them, but keep the Red BRO in my pocket always.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 11:35 PM

2015-12-18T23:35:03-05:00

You might want to check the recently released ALARACT concerning combat patches. There is no such thing as orders, there are no memorandums authorizing members of one unit to wear the patch of another. The only authorized combat patch is that of the lowest level unit you are assigned to.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2015 1:57 AM

2015-12-19T01:57:48-05:00

I earned all my combat patches while on Active Duty before I transitioned to the Reserves.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2015 9:44 AM

2015-12-23T09:44:41-05:00

Very simply put the division between ARNG/USAR and the AC needs to stop. My research found nearly 378,000 ARNG/USAR and other services Air Guard, Navy Reserves, Air Force Reserves and Marine Reserves deployed through 2006 in support of the Global War on Terror. Though not active duty, these men and women still volunteer and responded when called upon to do a job. If attached to an Army unit and authorized the patch, they earned it no less than the active duty service member. I was occasionally teased about being a NG and reservist while deployed. All in fun but the truth be told, if it wasn't for these reservists and guardsmen, active duty service members would never have been allowed to leave theater as there would have been no replacements. 3 deployments totaling 42 months as NG and reserves is a lot and in some cases more than a few active duty people I run into.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Dec 31 at 2015 1:11 PM

2015-12-31T13:11:32-05:00

Overthinking this perhaps? Feelings aside (as they do not write Army regulations), relax, follow the current regulations and drive on.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2016 5:07 PM

2016-01-20T17:07:02-05:00

I've never been deployed, but as long as you have orders stating that you can wear the combat patch then why not? Whether you are attached you're not, you're still doing the same job. That's just my opinion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2016 1:28 PM

2016-01-22T13:28:18-05:00

There are usually orders, and the memos come after your orders end.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 3:57 PM

2016-01-27T15:57:09-05:00

Sometimes its the only option for the Soldier. Some units wear their states JFHQs SSI (Shoulder Sleeve Insignia). There's an Army Reg somewhere that prohibits them from being worn as a SSI FWTS (Former War Time Service). So the Soldiers in those unit have to wear whatever SSI their higher organization is assigned to.

Response by SPC William Weedman made Apr 16 at 2019 12:37 PM

2019-04-16T12:37:43-04:00

Totally depends on the situation. An NG MASH unit in my state was called up for Desert Shield/Storm. After train up they were broken apart and sent to different units. Our unit got their Rear D for several months. When they returned, they were wearing a quilt of war patches as they were all over Saudi Arabia, no one was wearing the STARC (state command) patch.

Response by SSG David Gordon made Apr 17 at 2019 12:18 AM

2019-04-17T00:18:50-04:00

If they earned it, it's theirs.

Response by CPT Christopher Stanco made Apr 4 at 2021 8:38 AM

2021-04-04T08:38:35-04:00

Regulations were made to eliminate opinions.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2024 3:09 PM

2024-04-21T15:09:05-04:00

My opinion is you wear as the regulation authorizes, with pride for your service, and tell all the “warriors” with an opinion, how little their thoughts matter…