What special training do you think members of this specialized field should strive for?

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 17:40:56 -0400

If I am able to finally get back in, this is what I am looking at getting into. What special trainings do you think would be beneficial to a member in this specialized portion of the Security Forces career field? Pathfinder? Jump School? Ranger School?

Air Force Security Forces - PHOENIX RAVEN

Air Mobility Commands Phoenix Raven program, implemented in 1997, consists of teams of specially trained security forces personnel dedicated to providing security for AMC aircraft that transit high terrorist and criminal threat areas.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 5:45 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 17:45:21 -0400

Depends on your career path... For my previous career feild, anything that had to do with SIGINT or Math.

Response by SSgt Joe V. made Apr 22 at 2015 6:01 PM

SSgt Joe V. — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 18:01:44 -0400

I think because you are basically air crew until landing and after take-off, concentrate on what the ground game will be.

Jump school - Only beneficial if you had to exit said aircraft in case of in-flight emergency, so important - maybe, but not necessarily a need.

Pathfinder - More beneficial because of the added bonus of being able to do sling load operations, they teach you aircraft repelling, and you're able to provide air traffic control and navigational assistance to aircraft within an operational site control zone, but that is only from the ground...not from the aircraft, so beneficial, but not necessary.

Ranger School - more aligned with what some of the duties of the Raven program are...that is the Ranger's primary mission is to engage in close combat and direct-fire battles, and the Raven team is aircraft protection up to and including close-combat and direct-fire battles, but still, this school is a little overkill for a Raven team because the Rangers tend to go to places that close-combat and direct-fire battles are the norm, while a Raven team is all about prep 'in case' of these things.

Seems to me that the 2-week 14 hour a day training you receive would be the most beneficial as it directly correlates to the job at hand. I could see a little more CQB stuff being beneficial too and maybe throw in a little SERE training just to be safe.

Moral of this long post...any training you get will be beneficial, it will just take using the right skills at the right time to make it relevant for the job at hand.

P.S. looks like a cool job (even for security forces :-) )

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made Apr 22 at 2015 6:02 PM

MSgt Rob Weston — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 18:02:15 -0400

I suggest learning about them, find out availability, talk to your training NCOIC, talk to your chief, and convince your CC.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 8:45 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 20:45:39 -0400

Honestly bro all Ravens do is guard a plane so if your Just in love with sitting next to a air craft then try for it but from talking to Ravens it's all luck of the draw being chosen to be a raven. As far as schools man it's getting hard even for TACP like me to go. It's a funding thing, just not enough money to send dudes to schools. I've been to Air Assault that's it and I've been in for 5 years. Now jobs like PJ and CCT you WILL go to jump, halo and dive but you better want it to make it man. To make it as a battle field air man you have to almost be obsessed with becoming that person. It's not going to be the physical aspect that will kill ya off its the heart and mental part. You need to have incredible drive and will to make it so really think about what you really want before you make a decision.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 9:25 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 21:25:53 -0400

COMBAT MEDICAL. anything else looks good on qual badge but not nearly as useful, ask a Ranger if you don't believe me. When I had to splint or patch wounds out I'd say "Trust me, I'm doctor".

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 10:10 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 22:10:00 -0400

Well the highest echelons have clearly shown a favorable eye towards Equal Opportunity training and SAPR so . . .

Honestly I think Air Assault would be a good one to go for. It's it bit more accessible for the SF career than Jump School with a similair level of prestige. But it's primary advantages are: 1) It's a good deal cheaper and 2) it's a shorter course so your Chain of Command gets you back sooner.

Just remember: I'm a Junior Enlisted Comm guy, I don't know anything for sure. But don't forget to look at all the options.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 7:43 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 07:43:07 -0400

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Apr 23 at 2015 9:15 AM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 09:15:25 -0400

Rather than list special training that you should/might undertake, I think it is better to walk you through a "mission analysis" thought process. Goes to helping you in how to think rather than what to think.
- What is the unit/mission? ensure an acceptable level of close-in security for aircraft transiting airfields where security is unknown or additional security is needed to counter local threats
- How will you conduct the mission? Teams of 2-4 specially trained and equipped security forces personnel deploy as aircrew members on AMC missions as designated by the AMC Threat Working Group. The Raven teams help detect, deter and counter threats to AMC aircraft by performing close-in aircraft security; advising aircrews on force protection measures; conducting airfield assessments; and assisting aircrews in the performance of their duties when not performing their primary security duties.
- What is your background? Personal strengths/weaknesses? Only you can answer this.
- What special training will help you to complete your mission and how you conduct your mission?
- I recommend you look less at your listed "bling" schools such as Pathfinder or Airborne School which look like they do not direct support either your mission or your career field and take a harder look at Army MP/Air Force SP courses, MI courses, and Aviation courses that will more directly apply to this career field and mission. In a nuthshell, it looks like you need to be able to provide security, ID threats, and assist aircrews.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Apr 23 at 2015 9:16 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 09:16:50 -0400

First, congratulations on your decision/quest to reenter the military. Looks like you have your mind set on a path. That is good and you should pursue it.

Although I am (was) Army, I am fairly familiar with the Phoenix Raven (PR) program, having served as the senior law enforcement and security officer in two joint commands since the inception of the PR Program. I am not familiar, however, with the requirements for entry into the program or whether there are prerequisites for entry (like Airborne qualification, etc.) or if personnel are sent to the required schools after selection and assignment to the program.

My recommendation is to find out all you can about the program and do your best to met the selection criteria. Then, if successful in getting selected, you will be afforded the opportunity to attend the training determined to be necessary to perform your mission.

I assume it would be very difficult for an Air Force member to obtain a training slot to Airborne School, Pathfinder School, Ranger School, etc. if they were not requirements for the assignment.

Seek out folks who are familiar with the program and requirements and find out how you best should approach your goal.

Good luck...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 9:16 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 09:16:40 -0400

I'll clarify a little bit. I've done research into them. I was actually working towards the pipeline to get into the program when I was in before the Force decided they could do without me.

My 'eternal curse' is that I'm always trying to look to see what I can do to improve upon the position that I currently hold. If I were to get into the Ravens, I would think that some of the training offered by the Army would be beneficial to this career field - Air Assault, Pathfinder, etc - due to their heavy emphasis on air frame mission capabilities for the member.

Response by SMSgt Gary Calhoun made Apr 23 at 2015 10:42 AM

SMSgt Gary Calhoun — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 10:42:33 -0400

Let's try to answer the question from my limited experience in Training. Pathfinder? No, not even remotely a part of the SF skill set. Jump School? Yes, but only if you will be assigned to 820 BDG at Moody or 105 BDS at Stewart ANGB. Ranger School? Only if you would be assigned to the units I mentioned or you cross-train as a pararescueman or TACP.

If the waiver is approved, big mother AF will like take you back as 3P0XX (Security Forces). Good training options for SF would be:

- Phoenix Raven
- Combat Leader's Course (for the SF-centric fieldcraft)
- Special Reaction Team (type-8 Army course at FLW)
- Inter-service Nonlethal Individual Weapons Instructor Course (type-8 USMC course at FLW)

If you could miraculously get an Army course, go Air Assault. It's a useful skill to have out in the boonies.

If you really want to make a difference, start learning now how to be a good first-level supervisor - before ALS or anything else. Find the NCO that is leading from the front and observe and learn from him or her. The AF needs that most of all. It isn't a cool, sexy school with bling but it will make the most difference.

Does that make sense? Good luck with the waiver.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 2:45 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 14:45:58 -0400

I would say that a lot of these schools are not really what some think they are. I have no clue how Pathfinder would play into a role of Security Forces. I did have a Airman in my Ranger class but it is not really something builds your ability to be in Security Forces. Jump School is really pointless. Let's just be honest.

Now if you were to be in the infantry those would be some great schools. But you are going to be in Security Forces. It is not the same and the schools should focus on your skill set. I was a civilian cop for a while and if I were in Security I would look at maybe sniper but I would be more interested in anything with AFSOI. If you want some Hooah schools you can always try the Army.

Response by SSgt Chris Frey made Apr 23 at 2015 6:05 PM

SSgt Chris Frey — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 18:05:21 -0400

..good luck? Yes you could potentially do all of the above. However, if that's what you want your looking at the wrong branch or wrong afsc. Yes security forces can once in a blue moon do those schools. But you have to weigh in your odds of being that one lucky individual.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 2:46 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 02:46:06 -0400

Joint Fire Observer Course, and Counter Sniper would be a good start. Personally I think you need to come over to the dark side. No im not talking about joining Politics im talking about being a TACP:)