What to do when drill sergeant says if you fail the class again you will be chaptered out?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 10:55:22 -0400

my brother is 56M, current in AIT, and he wishes to reclass to different mos, the courses he said he doesn't like so as the MOS, he has now become recycle to a next new class because he has failed 3 tests so far. And now the drill sergeant said if you fail this cycle again u going to chapter out and with a dishonorable discharge. my brother just wants to switch different mos. He wants to still stay in the army. At this point does drill sergeant just scare him(want him to graduate) or he really means to do it (chapter him out). can an AIT soldier get a discharge like that? My brother said AIT Commander is going to speak to him on Monday. Anybody know the inside about AIT school. I through he just get reclass if he fails the test. what really can he do by this point. Any advice please help?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 11:00 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 11:00:35 -0400

It’s a scare tactic. But your brother is getting infantry if he fails.

Response by 1SG Steven Imerman made Aug 15 at 2020 11:18 AM

1SG Steven Imerman — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 11:18:58 -0400

Hope he likes carrying a rucksack. He will go to whatever MOS needs bodies, quite often light infantry. At least that's the way it was when I was a drill, though to be fair that was 35 years ago or so.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 11:22 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 11:22:00 -0400

If you fail your first MOS, you become needs of the Army. Someone in the S3 shop pulls an ATRRS TS screenshot. Most of the time there will be priority MOSs listed at the bottom that the Army needs to fill. At Fort Sam this goes into your reclass packet. The Soldier lists their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd choice of reclass MOS on this sheet. The Soldier can write down whatever they want, but if there is one MOS on that list that is particularly unfavorable, we encourage them to put at least one of the better option in their top 3 choices. More often than you might think, there are no MOSs listed on that ATRRS TS screenshot. My understanding is that ASVAB line scores, red/green color blind, OPAT score, civilian drivers license, and security clearance are the main factors. If that is the case, it means when their packets is submitted most likely there will be no reclass MOS available and the command is then REQUIRED to proceed with separating the Soldier. I have never seen a discharge worse than “General - Under Honorable Conditions” result from those proceedings. Your brother may try to re-enter service after 6 months, but it will be much more difficult and require a waiver if his DD214 has anything other than RE-1 listed for re-entry. Tell him to finish the course and reclass when his re-enlistment window opens.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 11:36 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 11:36:56 -0400

You have five posts about you and your brother reclassing. You have been told that it is needs of the Army in your brothers case. In your case, you can't reclass. Why do you keep posting on the same topic? Both of you enlisted of your own free will, so quit complaining and start putting your best foot forward.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 11:40 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 11:40:45 -0400

Your brother would be a lot more successful Reclassing if he finished his AIT and got to his unit and reclassed a year later. 56M is always going over strength and he could actually pick an MOS he wants rather than the one the Army picks for him. Also, with COVID a lot of the AIT future classes are filled up from people who missed their last class, so there probably won’t be an open class seat for him and he will be separated as 1SG Private RallyPoint Member explained

As a Career Counselor I can tell you that 56M is an extremely easy MOS to reclass out of, where 11B or 19D, or whatever under strength MOS he gets put into, will not be easy to get out of

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 11:52 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 11:52:33 -0400

He is purposely failing his classes and wasting the Army’s time and money along with his instructors time and efforts. Every test he “purposely” fails, his instructor has to take their personal time and time that could be spent with other students to help your brother. I think he should be separated. This is the Army. You cannot simply cry and refuse to work until you get your way.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 12:23 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 12:23:02 -0400

Quit crying the same old story, buck up take responsibility and pass the class. Enough with the BS, things don’t always go the way you want. Learn from your mistakes and wrong decisions and make the best of what you have at the moment. There more then likely will be opportunities to correct your course at a latter time.

Response by SPC Alexander Correale made Aug 15 at 2020 12:32 PM

SPC Alexander Correale — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 12:32:58 -0400

As much as he may not like it, the smart thing to do would be to pass the class. Learn the Army in that MOS and then change MOS. Less headaches and you won't be seen as the problem child.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 12:54 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 12:54:23 -0400

What can he really do at this point? He can pass the test, then he doesn't have to find out if it's just a scare tactic.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 1:02 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 13:02:08 -0400

There was a punk in my Basic Training class. He ended up quitting. So he got sectioned off with the hold over room. Every time the rest of us were running up and down the stairs or getting smoked we had to hear it out of his fat mouth about how it sucks to be us.

See........ the ONE thing the Drill SGT's DID NOT LIE to us about was the fastest way out is through.

So anyway, we had to hear this guy rub it in our face every time we passed him sitting in his bunk on his phone. Except graduation day. There he was in his bunk, and not one bit of movement forward toward his exit out of the Army. We all got dressed in fancy ASU's, marched down to graduation, his ass was silent in his bunk, and the next day we all got on buses to AIT.

His ass was still suck in Lost in the Woods, MO.

I don't know if there is a reg spelling out how quick action for you or your brother is if you try and get pushed out, but if there is you can bet nothing will be done until the last minute. No one is going to do him any favors, and will pick the path of least resistance to get him out of their faces.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 1:12 PM

SP5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 13:12:19 -0400

PFC Private RallyPoint Member I strongly suggest that you share the professional responses to your query with your brother. The NCOs responding here are giving unbiased answers. He needs to pay attention.
He signed an enforceable contract - break it and there are penalties, some probably unpleasant. You can advocate for him on this platform, but his decision, and the outcomes, are his to own.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 1:18 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 13:18:53 -0400

In some cases, If a trainee fails, he/she may get reclassed, but if it is blatantly obvious that your brother is failing on purpose, he will NOT get reclaimed, he WILL get recycled, and he WILL get chartered out. There is no place in the army for non-conformists.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 1:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 13:37:40 -0400

He needs to get his act together and pass the A.I.T. he obviously does not want to be in the Army that bad from what it sounds like.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 15 at 2020 4:10 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 16:10:24 -0400

If your brother is failing on purpose on the expectation the Army will reclass him without question and without concern regarding the time, money and resources being wasted that is naive and short sighted on his part.

I’m guessing that’s why the DS is saying that to him

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Aug 15 at 2020 4:33 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 16:33:11 -0400

My experience in this area is quite remote as I’ve been retired for quite some time. Before I retired, I was an AIT instructor and Chief Instructor. If he’s on a 3rd or 4th chance, he’s already had more chances than soldiers had when I was in. He had a chance to pick his MOS at MEPS and that was based upon his ASVSB AFQT and physical exam. The Army has jobs available based on qualifications and ship dates. You don’t always get a second chance. Simply not liking an MOS isn’t a good reason because he could keep not liking a reclassification MOS as well. How much money does the Army need to spend on someone in order to try and make them happy? He shouldn’t get a dishonorable discharge as that takes a courts martial. I doubt failing AIT has become a courts martial offense.

Response by 1SG Frank Boynton made Aug 15 at 2020 7:05 PM

1SG Frank Boynton — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 19:05:32 -0400

He needs to reconsider his choices. Nothing he ever does again will have the impact on his life than getting kicked out of the military. He will always be known as a quitter. No matter the reasons, he will live with that decision for the rest of his life. No solider, sailor, airman, or marine will even give him the time of day. And it will never get better. He will always be known as a quitter, not good enough to wear the uniform. He will never get respect. It is a tough choice to make and it will be final.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 15 at 2020 7:19 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 19:19:26 -0400

He's dead meat- is it is a scare tactic, but also a fact. Failures are reclassed to the MOS the Army need- NO choice for him, or the chapter him as a failure, any other enlistment attempt will call for a waiver- which is hard. If he got paid any bonus $, the Army will take it back, or turn over to the IRS for collection.

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 15 at 2020 8:17 PM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 20:17:05 -0400

If your brother is intentionally failing out he deserves to be chaptered out . If he isn't intentionally failing out, why would the Army spend the time an effort training someone who can't pass the AIT for his current MOS.

If your brother is intentionally failing out tell him to be a man and honor his obligation. Some mistakes are one way roads, you just finish the trip as good as you can.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 10:15 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 22:15:06 -0400

I'm going to say that you should focus on other things rather than posting the same question again but just in a different way. You focus on you. If your brother wants to be a dumbass and purposefully fail out, then it's on him.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2020 10:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 22:45:27 -0400

What does he do? He doesn't fail. Yes they can discharge him - that's up to the commander.
When I was in AIT we had someone who failed 3 tests in a row (same test - actually the first test which was the easiest) and got recycled. She then failed the same test again 3 times in a row as a recycle so they "T-spaced" her (that's what it was called then). Her only options were needs of the Army. I think she ended up taking supply because that would have put her in AIT closer to home. I'm not sure what happened to her after that...

I know this question was posed before. Tell him to just pass the classes because AIT is not the actual Army. Everything I learned in AIT for my MOS, I've barely done any of it in the Army. In any unit.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Aug 16 at 2020 4:19 AM

SSG Brian G. — Sun, 16 Aug 2020 04:19:31 -0400

You have asked this question multiple times on here already, just changing wording. The question was asked and advice was given.

Your brother needs to buckle down and complete the training no matter how much he may not like it. He HAS no choice in this. He cannot switch MOS mid AIT or even before he completes his initial AIT. He needs to complete the AIT and then once he graduates, and goes to his first duty station start putting in paperwork to reclass.

He has been recycled, and the army has chosen to go the route of saying do or die. He had no choices in this right now if he wants to stay in and serve.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 16 at 2020 12:29 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sun, 16 Aug 2020 12:29:59 -0400

He can keep messing around if he wants, but let him know he's gonna end up a Cook or Infantry if he subjects himself to "needs of the Army" reclass, which is precisely what will happen if he fails AIT...

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Aug 21 at 2020 10:20 AM

1SG James Kelly — Fri, 21 Aug 2020 10:20:14 -0400

Get ready to be chapter-ed out.

Response by SPC Tony Pacheco made Sep 2 at 2020 10:32 PM

SPC Tony Pacheco — Wed, 02 Sep 2020 22:32:10 -0400

I hope he gets kicked out! This is the kind of soldier that makes everyone else’s job harder and makes things more dangerous for us all. He’s a blue falcon and there is no place in any branch of service for him!

Response by MGySgt Kenneth Krueger made Oct 5 at 2020 9:11 AM

MGySgt Kenneth Krueger — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 09:11:25 -0400

Not sure about Army, but I dealt with this in the Marine Corps when I was senior enlisted for my MOS school. Normally if a Marines was a twice failure, would be considered for reclass based on PltSgt rec. If PltSgt thinks the Marine still has potential to pass course, he can be recycled back. If not, the Marine will be reclassified based on needs of Marine Corps. In no case does a reclass Marine get to pick new MOS. In 99% of cases the Marine was sent to one of the adjacent MOS schools for training as this incurred no travel costs. If a Marine was on purpose failing or refusing to train, they would be dropped to Marines Awaiting Training and Transfer platoon. Marines in this status conducted daily working parties, PT and other activities making the MATT an undesirable place to be. This situation will continue until that Marine decides to fulfill their obligation, be courts martialed for disciplinary problems or reached end of enlistment. Best advice is always do your best wherever u find yourself. This goes for life in General. For most, their time in the military is a short four yrs. make the most of it. Once out in the fleet or in the regular Army, there will be other opportunities to train for other duties or even change MOS. I know for sure a marginal Marine, problem child will not get those opportunities.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Oct 5 at 2020 6:20 PM

SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 18:20:20 -0400

As the NCOIC of a MOS School I was able to give my 2 cents when it came to reclassifying a phase out. If the individual was a dirtbag i did my best to get them reclassified in to the Engineers. I always thought the Engineers were the hardest working units in the Army. I once saw Engineers at Sandhofen Germany putting a bridge over a river in a blinding snowstorm in December. It seams to me that your brother is doing his best to be reclassified instead of getting with the program. I wish him well in the Engineer Bridging Unit.

Response by SPC Earl Semler made Oct 26 at 2020 3:54 PM

SPC Earl Semler — Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:54:07 -0400

When I was in you failed AIT you signed up for-new AIT Infantry and you won't fail that they said.

Response by TSgt Chuck Mankin made Oct 29 at 2020 8:16 PM

TSgt Chuck Mankin — Thu, 29 Oct 2020 20:16:45 -0400

He needs to understand that the needs of the Army come before his own needs and wants. So he doesn't like his MOS so he wants to fail. With this attitude I honestly hope the Army does discharge him. They should also charge him for the training time he has wasted. He is not Army material because he is a selfish baby. Maybe Walmart will better work for him.

Response by SGT Andrew Mace made Nov 4 at 2020 9:48 AM

SGT Andrew Mace — Wed, 04 Nov 2020 09:48:51 -0500

It would be better that he gets out now before his actions cause someone to get killed.

Response by SGT J M Porters made Nov 5 at 2020 7:37 AM

SGT J M Porters — Thu, 05 Nov 2020 07:37:20 -0500

You do not fail the class. Plain and simple. Get your S...................t together. Ask for help. Seek help.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Nov 12 at 2020 10:05 PM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 22:05:59 -0500

There are many factors:
Examples; an X-ray Tech or OR Specialist have Medic as their precondition training MOS.
A PsyOps Specialist has MP & Jump School as his training MOS precursors.
If they fall out of their contracted MOS Training, they immediately qualify for the issued precursor MOS.

Response by SSgt Michael Bowen made Nov 14 at 2020 7:27 PM

SSgt Michael Bowen — Sat, 14 Nov 2020 19:27:25 -0500

He can not get a dishonorable discharge . but he can be discharged . and at AIT i am guessing less then 180 days so it will be with Zero benefits and no right to call himself a vet . What he could have done is complete his training like an adult . and then after getting to his unit apply to get an MOS change . But now with his record of failing it would not likely be approved . The Army doesn't invest 10s of 1000s of dollars to train or retrain some one with that kind of failure record he screwed that pooch all himself .

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2021 10:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Aug 2021 22:37:46 -0400

cuurent instructor - if a soldiers fails at two attempts to earn an MOS then they can be be chaptered out. The Soldiers should have been given an option to reclass after his first failed attempt to earn an MOS rather than given automatic recycle

Response by SFC Bill Kurtz made Aug 22 at 2021 5:23 AM

SFC Bill Kurtz — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 05:23:26 -0400

Two young ladies failed out of our 32D course and were sent to ATC school. Two others decided they wanted another MoS and failed out. They got a new MzoS school alright, cook school. Served them right.