What would be the best option, Chapter 11 vs APFT failure, for chaptering soldiers who just joined the Army and cannot pass an APFT?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:39:43 -0400

What would be the best option when it comes to chaptering soldiers who just joined the army and they cannot pass an APFT. Do you have to give them the option to take an APFT within 90 days or can you just straight-up do failure to adapt. Do you have to give them that option ?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2019 11:13 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Mar 2019 23:13:07 -0400

Our policy is normally flag and bar on the first failure, start paperwork on the second failure, and chapter on the third failure.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2019 11:14 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Mar 2019 23:14:56 -0400

It depends did he show inprovment between the first failed PT test and this current on?

I’ll speak on behalf of myself. I had 3 foot surgeries, failed two PT tests. My 1sg gave me the 90 days ( I believe my super work ethic saved me a little) so at the end of my 90 days I ran for my life (quite literally) passed by 12 seconds.
If you think he/she is a great solider just needs more time to get back to where he/she was. I’d give them the 90, but my opinion if they don’t want it. Chapter 11 is easier.
Just my two cents

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2019 2:56 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 02:56:57 -0400

The commander, in consultation with SJA determines what it best.
Even if it is an IET Soldier, separation for a single APFT failure would be AZoverturned on appeal to the Army Discharge Review Board (see AR 350-6 and ADRB CASE NUMBER: AR [login to see] 9. The commander should begin the separation after failing the second (consecutive) record APFT. IOWs, Solider fails record APFT, then is flagged, counseled, PT, and administered second record APFT (90 days). If Soldier passes the record, flag is lifted. If not, separation begins.
Also, see AR 635-200, as Chapter 11 is for Soldiers in entry-level status, undergoing IET, and, before the date of the initiation of separation action, have completed no more than 180 days of creditable continuous AD.

Response by SPC Nicholas Wood made Mar 27 at 2019 7:03 AM

SPC Nicholas Wood — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 07:03:24 -0400

Check and see if he is hurt? Anything going on in their life... Idk why its always hey how do I get this person out... Do your job mentor and lead him.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2019 8:43 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 08:43:55 -0400

The best option is for Sergeant guy to get out there and PT his Soldiers until they pass.
That is what this 1SG would be drilling down on, not how do we throw the dude out faster.
Not impeaching anyone's character here, but we are entirely too quick to give up on Soldiers.
Some are non-hackers and need to go.
Others are just not motivated, and need a motivator. Be the motivator.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2019 10:28 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 10:28:56 -0400

You can't chapter someone for failure to adapt if you don't give them enough time to adapt.
Don't try to game which chapter you can use. Different JAGs have different requirements on what meets the standards for different chapters. The only thing you can do is talk to the JAG and see what they recommend.
But no commander is going to agree with throwing someone out until their leaders have exhausted all possible avenues.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2019 12:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 12:51:27 -0400

It’s not failing to adapt. If they are chapter 11 in the first 180 days, the soldier has the option to come back in after six months as needs of the Army depending on the discharge reason. Some soldiers just aren’t prepared for the military.

Response by PFC Elijah Rose made Mar 28 at 2019 3:07 PM

PFC Elijah Rose — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 15:07:27 -0400

Fat camp and/or other additional fitness programs would be best. Chapters are egregiously unnecessary given fitness is an easily fixable problem. All the arbitrary chapter does is create an easy way to quit on good terms and produce fear among soldiers who want to stay in that the slightest messup could get them booted.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Mar 28 at 2019 7:05 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:05:25 -0400

I guess my first question would be what quota allowed a recruiter to enlist this individual in the first place? It's not like there isn't a way to determine an individual's ability to pass an APFT before they sign on the dotted line. That said it's up to the individuals commander to make the call based on his/her performance during other aspects of basic. If there is potential the drill sergeant needs to get to work on this individual, if there are no indications of potential, cut the chaff and move on.