What would it take for the Army to let NCOs run the Army again?

2017-02-28T22:13:34-05:00

I feel like it's too much micro-managing going on.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Feb 28 at 2017 10:43 PM

2017-02-28T22:43:13-05:00

The problem I see with is that NCO's want to run the Army and do the "cool guy" things but don't want to do the hard things that come with it. I see too much "cookie cutter" counseling's, NCO's not taking the time to help fix Soldiers issues. NCO's want to go back to smoking Soldiers and having GI parties but don't want to spend that extra time need for truly mentoring Soldiers. As I was coming up, my PSG and SQD LDRS were tough and demanding of me, but also took the time to help mentor me. If I was working on a night shift, they came in on their own time to check on me and make sure I was taken care of. It appears that the NCO Corps see the job as a 9-5. I would love to see the NCO Corps back taking care of Soldiers and leading those day to day operations but I feel we have a ways to go before that happens. I know this is pretty vague but to sum it up, we have to learn to take care of the little things before we can tackle those bigger responsibilities. My opinion and .50 cents won't buy you a Coke though. I do think this is definitely a conversation that NCO's need to have at their level.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2017 11:56 PM

2017-02-28T23:56:33-05:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member for NCOs to do what they keep saying "get back to the basics". Start mentoring junior Soldiers to be junior NCOs and junior NCOs to be senior NCOs, etc. It makes me sick that people get promoted without being mentored and shown the proper way. (NOTE: This happens on the officer side of the house too, but your question is about the NCO side.) A stronger more capable NCO that is confident will be given more responsibility if the officer themselves are too mentored and confident. So one word: mentorship.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2017 11:57 PM

2017-02-28T23:57:46-05:00

It depends on the unit. My last unit before I switched over to the Air Guard was very NCO driven.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 1 at 2017 12:45 AM

2017-03-01T00:45:48-05:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I must defer to you, and current SMs like 1SG Mike Case ... as I am 4 years removed...

But, from 1980 to 2013, I owe all of my success to NCOs... Too many to name... like Drill Sergeant Jefson and Thomas, K9 Instructor SFC Kirk, Section Leader SSG Head, PSG Young, many many PSGs ands SLs, and my battle buddies 1SG Ragsdale, CSMs Staton, Morris, Groninger, Barteau, and list goes on...

I always allowed NCOs to run the show, run the Army, so long as they were doing what was right and what we agreed to. When NCOs quoted "NCO business," I reminded them, as a Commander, it was all my business... But, I always steered clear, unless, they were not handling their business, which was rare. In 29 years of commissioned service, the latter was the exception. That said, I had a PSG relieved, a 1SG, and believe it or not a CSM too. But, those were outliers... in a field of countless unsung heroes... Despite the few knuckleheads, I never ever doubted our NCOs... NCOs and Soldiers our Army look good day in and day out.

In 1980 when I came on active duty, confidence on the Army and our NCO Corps was on the mend from a long hard war in Vietnam. By 1992, we had gone from the lowest points, to the highest...

If I was successful in this Army, it was because of NCOs.

If there is problem, today, then getting back to what AR 600-20 directs, is a good place to start. The basics always are good place to start.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2017 7:29 AM

2017-03-01T07:29:39-05:00

I try to look at the Army like a football team. The officers are the GMs, scouts, head coach, offense and defensive coordinators and special teams coach. They look at the long term, plan, philosophy and how to win. The NCOs are the positional coaches, quarterback, middle linebacker and team captains. They teach, direct lead and communicate what the officers have planned to their subordinates. The enlisted are the other players executing the plan. If you look at this way each person has a role on the team.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Mar 1 at 2017 8:23 AM

2017-03-01T08:23:59-05:00

NCOs stepping up and doing their jobs? If someone is being micro-manged, there is a reason.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Mar 1 at 2017 9:18 AM

2017-03-01T09:18:52-05:00

I think 1SG Mike Case summed this question up perfectly. It starts with the mentorship and grows from there. In my last unit, my company's 1SG was seen by the battalion as a hard ass; Soldiers in the unit would whisper about him because he demanded everyone to be accountable. He demanded that we were 100% ready to go at all times and he demanded his NCOs be NCOs. If you had a Soldier out in the motor pool, you as the NCO better be in the motor pool with them. If you had a Soldier on extra duty you better take the time to check in on them. Room and uniform inspections were done on the squad/team level because you did not want him going through and finding something that you should have found. He was a hard ass but I think I got more leadership development through his demands of accountability than any other NCO I served with. That is the sort of mindset that it will take to be less micro-managed. The NCO Corp is the backbone of the Army and that backbone starts with the JR NCO but grows by the mentorship of the SRNCO. The job doesn't get easier when you pin on those chevrons if anything it becomes 10 times harder as you move up and take accountability for more than just yourself.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2017 5:44 PM

2017-03-01T17:44:19-05:00

SGT,
If you want to help the NCO Corps go back to running the Army, then review the NCO Creed and carry out the directives listed in it. When NCOs act like an NCO, do their job efficiently and effectively; train and lead troops; and prove to the officers above them that they can do their job without the Os stepping in to do it for them, then the NCO Corps will go back to running the show. As it is, we do run the show and we are the backbone of the Army. Be, Know, Do. Be the an effective leader. Be an outside the box thinker. Know how to do your job and know how to teach your job to your subordinates. Do the right things. Don't let the troops walk over you but don't be a jerk (at least not all the time) when leading them to accomplish missions. Take care of your troops and put their needs before yours, but make sure the Unit's and the Army's missions are being completed. Being an NCO, not just a Sergeant and there is a difference, means you are willing to sacrifice some of your time to ensure that the job is done correctly, and that the position of the unit is improved. You don't always have to micro manage a team to get things done. And if you think the Os are micro managing, then you need to learn how to communicate with your superiors to let them know what's going on and how you're going to complete a task. If you keep them informed, seek their guidance and recommendations, and provide your own intelligent recommendations back to them, then you will empower the team and alleviate some of the micro management.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2017 12:50 AM

2017-03-05T00:50:38-05:00

The Three Meter Zone: Common Sense Leadership for NCOs (J.D. Pentry, Cmd Sgt Maj, USA). A must read for all aspiring NCO's.