What would make American Legions and Veteran of Foreign War posts more appealing to join for you?

2021-12-16T15:23:39-05:00

American Legion and VFW posts are losing members and not getting new ones. I had this discussion with several leaders in both organizations. Older members are dying and new members are not joiners. The older members are often not welcoming either. I think making them family oriented and getting more involved in their community events might cause them to gain more relevance and awareness. This change should increase and gain more members. Thoughts?

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Dec 16 at 2021 4:16 PM

2021-12-16T16:16:47-05:00

Some of them need to show that they help the community, our post is small but, we show the community that we care about the youth of the town, and we have had a few younger people join sir MAJ Robert H.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2021 4:35 PM

2021-12-16T16:35:20-05:00

MAJ Robert H. I am a life member of the VFW but have never been to a Post. If I did go to post functions, it would be to connect with fellow veterans, especially Vietnam Veterans.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Dec 16 at 2021 4:43 PM

2021-12-16T16:43:30-05:00

"...The older members are often not welcoming either...." DING! DING! DING!! We have a winner!!!

When you are repeatedly told, "You aren't a REAL veteran because you weren't in the 'Nam" it kinda sours your desire to join. I finally joined the local VFW post (via National membership) but rarely go there as I'm shunned, ignored, and often looked at with open hostility by the older members.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2021 5:21 PM

2021-12-16T17:21:57-05:00

Clone the approach taken by Post 82

https://www.wideopencountry.com/american-legion-post-82/

How Nashville's American Legion Post 82 is Keeping Honky Tonk Culture Alive

While Nashville grows and gentrifies, the American Legion Post 82 offers a honky-tonk getaway where old-school country is still cool.

Response by PFC Andrew "Tommy" M. made Dec 16 at 2021 6:15 PM

2021-12-16T18:15:20-05:00

I have honestly never felt old enough to think about joining

Response by SGT Chris Padgett made Dec 16 at 2021 6:20 PM

2021-12-16T18:20:06-05:00

When I got out the 1st time (1991), I went to the VFW that my grandfather had been a member of years ago. I was told that I had to be in a combat area. I told them I was a Desert Storm vet. I was promptly told that Desert Storm wasn't a real war.
I said "fuck em" and forgot about it.
A couple months later, I happen to be at an event that the local American Legion was sponsoring.
I got to talking to one of the members there, and before I knew it I was a member.
I've been a legion member now for 28 years.
The difference between the two is night and day.
The post I belong to understands that we need to appeal to families and less to veterans only.
We're a family oriented post now, and it's way better than it was before we had the "come to Jesus" discussion and went to family format.
We actively recruit female veterans, and welcome them to our post.
We give a voice to the wives and other family members as to the direction we want to go.
If someone has an idea, we listen. We don't just blow them off.
Our post is an open book and people like that. Having secrets is no way to operate.
The American Legion as a national organization is really promoting this format as well.
A lot of posts are coming around, some better than others.
I've been to VFW Posts for programs, I'm glad I was turned away. I find them to be codger hangouts. Places where old guys drink beer and bitch about things.
If that's your thing, go for it.
The VFW I 1st went to, has sold their building, members have mostly died off and is dying on the vine.
Yet, the American Legion just a few miles down the road will hit record numbers for membership, prospers and is super active within the community.
It all about attitude and the way you treat your members.

*** Shameless Plug Alert***
If you live in the Cincinnati area, and you're a veteran, come visit us at Williamsburg Oh American Legion.

Response by Sgt Jim Belanus made Dec 16 at 2021 6:56 PM

2021-12-16T18:56:29-05:00

our problem is not many vets in the area, the VietNam guys have now taken over for WW2 and Korea as most of them have passed and those left are getting old. My post actively recruited Vietnam people and was very good at getting them involved but we are getting long in the tooth as well.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Dec 16 at 2021 11:23 PM

2021-12-16T23:23:08-05:00

I won't go to a post where I can't fish - I also lie a lot :>D
The family oriented is the way to go. If people can't have fun then they will not return. A 'movie night' with popcorn might be good also - something to get people out of their houses with a potluck afterwards. Stay away from politics.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2021 8:38 AM

2021-12-17T08:38:01-05:00

Why would newer service members want to? "The older members are often not welcoming either", for all the talk about how we're a military family, etc etc, there's more than a few Vets that don't actually believe it.

I deployed, did my job, still doing my job. I'm more interested in taking care of my guys and staying in touch with people in my era than salty old Joe.

At the rate I see it, the VFW and similar organizations are going to either crumble or restructure as their members keep dying. Is that all older Vets? No. I've met more than a few that are accommodating and trying to learn just as much as they try to teach. You know where a bunch of those guys hang out though? Not at the local VFW, at least that's my experience.

Maybe I'll join an organization one day, but as it stands right now, they have little to offer me other than bad stories from Vets from my generation that tried to get involved.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2021 8:56 AM

2021-12-17T08:56:57-05:00

Honestly I can't think of anything that would make me want to participate. I would probably join, but I doubt there is something that would make Mr want to be active.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Dec 17 at 2021 9:39 AM

2021-12-17T09:39:05-05:00

It's all about evolution. There are a mix out there of successful and unsuccessful posts. Those who are doing well are changing things up and those who refuse to evolve aren't.

The days of Veterans going to smoke filled canteens to avoid their families or spouses are a thing of the past. Bingo isn't as popular with the younger generation and there is a desire to attend more events and things that are fitness oriented. I have seen it both ways and those that embrace change do really well but there has to be some change. Veterans are different now than they were 30 years ago.

Response by SP5 A Lake made Dec 17 at 2021 3:55 PM

2021-12-17T15:55:50-05:00

No smoking
Feel welcomed and valued
less focused on the bar
Family friendly

Response by A1C Michelle Pagan made Dec 17 at 2021 8:07 PM

2021-12-17T20:07:16-05:00

Well this alone makes me not want to join "The older members are often not welcoming either." There needs to be a more welcoming environment and perhaps a welcoming committee that shows they do want newer generations to join. Plus, events that include and interest the newer generations.

Response by SPC Lyle Montgomery made Dec 18 at 2021 11:16 AM

2021-12-18T11:16:05-05:00

I have belonged to the VFW for 52 years. When I got back from Nam I didn't go to the club much because It was my Dad's group and I really didn't feel welcome. Now it's the Iraq and Afganistan boys. I am a life member and have went through the VFW in getting My disability. The VFW and Legion are great organizations. I just don't care to go to the clubs. A lot of us Vietnam vets never felt welcome in the clubs.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Dec 19 at 2021 6:35 PM

2021-12-19T18:35:42-05:00

To have the VFW open to all members who went overseas or not

Response by TSgt Scott Hurley made Dec 20 at 2021 11:33 AM

2021-12-20T11:33:21-05:00

It really depends on the post. Some posts do better than others in getting new members. Also, one of the factors that is common is smoking. If the post is non-smoking it will do better in getting new members. Post halls have to change in order to accommodate new members too. Like having video game and computers for them to use. Especially for jobs and education for the latter one.

Response by SSG John Mtz made Dec 20 at 2021 4:57 PM

2021-12-20T16:57:05-05:00

Go Go dancers, Cuban/Dominican seed cigars, extended happy hours, live music and big greasy cheeseburgers with extra crispy fries and a Dos XX. just to name a few.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2021 5:12 PM

2021-12-20T17:12:41-05:00

I think an additional part of it is the current climate of the military. Currently it is “uncool” to be proud of your service and patriotic. You get made fun of if you wear gear that represents your pride. For a lot of current military members and recent veterans being in the military is just like any other basic 9-5 job. It’s not a career, a calling or lifestyle. It is simply a thing to do to pay the bills and they don’t want anything to do with it after work hours or after they leave the service. In my opinion even if the veteran organizations fixed internal issues they maybe having to attract and keep members I still think the current climate is going to dwindle all military support agencies in the future.

Response by PO2 Pj O'Brien made Dec 22 at 2021 8:48 PM

2021-12-22T20:48:03-05:00

I belong to the VFW, since 2005, and I agree with making it more family friendly and less about just a place for the members to go and drink. I know it varies from Post to Post but I have lived in 4 different states and gone to over 40 different posts and what I see most is the Bar and Bingo. They do help with there local community a lot but for the most part I see them not so much of a family environment and more so of just a member environment. There was one I have gone to many times when visiting a friend about an hour outside of Indianapolis and they had a great set up. Big yard outside with Deck, BBQ area, sand Volleyball, Basketball and Baseball fields. Plus a large area for younger kids with swings and play set. On the weekends there was definitely a large family environment going on and they had plenty of younger members joining. I heard more joining every year because of all the family stuff to do. Anyway that’s just my opinion and what I’ve seen at one Post But it worked.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Dec 23 at 2021 10:54 AM

2021-12-23T10:54:50-05:00

As most Veterans here have pointed out it's the behavior of the Older Veterans at the VFW which is why we're seeing no real inclusion of the "New" Veterans all across the nation. There's other factors as well. In Illinois where I'm at the local VFW by Scott Air Force Base is full of Officers and mostly segregated to be an Officers Only Club; while the other VFW in Fairview Heights was actually torn down and replaced by Apartment Housing for the Elderly.

The next nearest one is in Collinsville, Il and while it's a lot more inclusive because it's both the American Legion and VFW rolled into one unit. The fact that Collinsville is heavily populate by Veterans at over 65% of the community including WW2 POWs are allowed to be members. Yet, sadly the fact that they're heavily invested into Conservative ideologies and very selective in adding new members in the past few years who disagree. They have local pastors politicking from the pulpit; even when its not a pulpit rather than keeping with the "Separation of Church and State" from the few meeting I attended there.

While in Missouri it's not much better; even when you have your name on the wall as a family member of Vietnam Veterans and don't see the new blood other than being regulated to being employed at the bar or in the kitchen area. It feels like we're considered "second class" Veterans there even when I was part of both Gulf Wars, 9/11 and other events including Somalia. So I only attended during Steak Night and then at the invitation of my in-law Veterans. Now with my Father-in-law passing; his spouse (also a Veteran) is granted limited access to the VFW rather than respected as a spouse.

Response by MAJ Daniel Buchholz made Dec 25 at 2021 7:53 AM

2021-12-25T07:53:09-05:00

It’s endemic to the entire society. People aren’t joining civic organizations. On some level you would think that people from the military would seek that same family at when they get out but statistics don’t support that.

Response by SGT Charles Marcinko made Dec 25 at 2021 10:59 AM

2021-12-25T10:59:28-05:00

When I got out in 93 I joined the VFW in my hometown. It was ok, but I'm not a smoker and I rarely drink. So going into a smoked filled room to get drunk was not on my "to-do" list, In fact it was the reasons I rarely went. I couple of years later I moved to a new city and while a friend tried to get me to join the Legion I declined since I was working the afternoon shift and I had to get home quickly afterward since the wife worked midnights.

But in the last 4 years I missed the comradery and wanted to talk and BS with others like me. I also am a disabled veteran and wanted to try to raise my rate. So I looked into the VFW, AL, and DAV to see who would be best for me. I decided it was the local DAV over the other two. With the help of the Vet Rep in filling out and filing my paperwork, I've gone from 10% to 80%, We also submitted a claim that he is sure will raise me to 100%. Our local DAV chapter 102 is always having fundraisers, family outings and other events to bring in the families, kids and grandkids to make it more enjoyable. I rarely ever see the VFW or AL doing events like DAV.

To answer your question better I would say its what a person wants the most from them. If you were like me needing help in getting my my DAV status raised> I feel I choose correctly. If you never got injured then it's your choice. Like you I did run into the older WWII/Vietnam vets who looked down on me since my wars were Just Cause in 89-90 and Desert Storm in 90-91. Both really short.
Between the atmosphere of the place and the non welcoming feelings I got I feel I made the right choice.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Dec 26 at 2021 3:48 PM

2021-12-26T15:48:38-05:00

I have been to two different VFW clubs over the years. My impression was and still is that members regard it as an enlisted or NCO club. The biggest attraction is low-cost drinks, other than that, I see no reason to join. I am acquainted with several veterans who received help from VFW posts in filing for VA disability claims. The demographics in the country are changing and these fraternal organizations need to adapt to these changes. Would I consider joining a local Legion or VFW, no.

Response by SPC Robert Tuller made Dec 27 at 2021 2:50 PM

2021-12-27T14:50:31-05:00

The biggest problem that I have found was, new veterans come into a post and they are hit with a cloud of smoke and than just turn around and walk out. We have tried to make our American Legion post smoke free, but it got shot down by the smokers.

Response by PO3 Lawrence Anderson made Jan 11 at 2022 10:49 PM

2022-01-11T22:49:03-05:00

I am an American Legion Commander in a small town. We have a clubhouse, but no bar. We have partnered with the local school for Memorial Day, Veterans Day, Breakfast with Santa and scholarships. We have a very, very small group that participates on a regular basis. We have struggled with recruiting and haven’t found the answer.

Response by CPL William Brennan made Jan 12 at 2022 11:39 AM

2022-01-12T11:39:17-05:00

Smoke free is a good start....

Response by CPO Ed Williamson made Jan 12 at 2022 12:32 PM

2022-01-12T12:32:31-05:00

3937 in Long Beach Mississippi is the most welcoming Post I have experienced. We have members from all wars going back to Vietnam. All are welcomed.

Response by CH (COL) Michael Malone made Jan 12 at 2022 1:55 PM

2022-01-12T13:55:54-05:00

I'm a member of both organizations. Sadly, the only communication I get from VFW is numerous fundraising letters and emails. America Legion sends out less. The last time I was in an American Legion post it took me three days to get over being gassed by all the cigarette smoke. One vet was smoking and also on O2. The culture of the organizations is not for me and I'm an old veteran.

Response by LCpl April Michalik made Jan 12 at 2022 4:13 PM

2022-01-12T16:13:06-05:00

Posts need to be more female Veteran friendly. Especially with the number of Female Veterans is increasing not decreasing. Many female Veterans are survivors of MST PTSD. So the usual banter and commandery aren't always welcomed. With each female Veteran, a post needs to find out a little about her and her time while on active duty. So she feels welcomed and safe. As a female Veteran that survived MST and has PTSD. I have been treated as a Female first then a Veteran at multiple Veteran posts.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2022 9:53 PM

2022-01-12T21:53:02-05:00

The VFW posts I've known were just bars. I don't drink, so that wouldn't appeal to me. Yet I'm an old codger and my kids are grown up, so I don't know if I'd fit in with a family environment. One aspect I miss about the military is the atmosphere of athletics and competition.

Response by PO2 Scott M. made Jan 13 at 2022 9:12 AM

2022-01-13T09:12:33-05:00

I used to be a member of the VFW in my area, but I quit as it really was nothing more than a glorified biker style bar with no other amenities, and since I don't drink anymore, so there was no sense to even go. Something more than just being a bar might get me to respond.

Response by MSG David P. made Jan 13 at 2022 12:47 PM

2022-01-13T12:47:28-05:00

I belong to both organizations. I’m retired and they are good for me. For younger vets they sponsor baseball, soccer, Boy & Girl Scouts, and etc. I really don’t understand why more vets don’t belong.

Response by PO2 Shawn Pambianco made Jan 13 at 2022 1:21 PM

2022-01-13T13:21:00-05:00

I am part of the American Legion and a prior Vice Commander. One thing I noticed is that some of our older veterans are more stern and not as welcoming to new ideas. As times have changed, branching out to our newer veterans and service members and doing so on social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram have helped to bring more community awareness to the organization. Highlighting various functions and events have helped to bring in some new faces and friends to our small family. Finding ways to generate new opportunities for engagement will help to bridge the gap between these two different generations of veterans and supporters.

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Jan 13 at 2022 4:01 PM

2022-01-13T16:01:41-05:00

Perhaps if our loyalty was to America instead of politicians, it could grow again.

Response by Sgt Javier Romero made Jan 13 at 2022 6:20 PM

2022-01-13T18:20:46-05:00

not only more family oriented but also place where veterans can get to get together any day of the week and not just a particular day. Maybe have more of a recreation center or eclub/oclub type feel. When stationed in NC at Camp Lejeune I used to visit the recreation center almost daily just to play pool or watch movies with my fellow Marines.

Response by TSgt Orin Taylor Sr made Jan 13 at 2022 10:58 PM

2022-01-13T22:58:37-05:00

I belong to both. I also belong to DAV and NCOA. What I find is potential members are not aware of the benefits of membership in these organizations.

Response by Sgt Neil Foster made Jan 14 at 2022 1:04 AM

2022-01-14T01:04:19-05:00

I am a life member of DAV, and was a member of The American Legion, but the membership fees just got too high, and the post was not very convenient for me to access.

When I lived in the Antelope Valley (in CA) I was very active in DAV. My DAV Service Officer was the Chapter Commander, and recruited me when my service dates became eligible. I was very warmly accepted by the 'old timers'... In fact, even though I have no official documentation that makes me eligible to join the VFW, some of my chapter members who were also VERY active in the VFW wanted to find a loophole to get me in!

At the first meeting I was asked to be the Public Affairs Officer... a few months later I was elected Jr. Vice Commander, then shortly after that I was Sr. Vice Commander.

I have not been involved with my local DAV Chapter in Washington, not because I don't want to be involved, but they hold their meetings at 1300 on Friday afternoons... That may work for retirees, but not for someone with a full time job that has 'normal' business hours.

Response by SPC Deon Holmes made Jan 14 at 2022 7:06 AM

2022-01-14T07:06:20-05:00

It's just like Congress, there all filled with old members who sit in little groups and exclude the younger members. I've been to a hall a few times over the years, but only because someone asked me to come play bingo. Sadly it felt like a nursing home bingo game hall, and I couldn't enjoy it. I also live in the far burbs and I have a hall close by, but I got a feeling I wouldn't enjoy hanging around there much. I'd be willing to help change the image of the VFW and bring in younger members with fresh ideals, but it would require a good salary and the authority to carry out the changes. But that's again is like Congress, the old guard would have to retire and let go of their power.

Response by GySgt Jack Wallace made Jan 14 at 2022 8:48 AM

2022-01-14T08:48:17-05:00

I join last year and I pulled out withheld a week. Both men in charge were head-strong and didn't feel at ease with either one of them.It was like a power trip being in-charge.Sad but true.One was older and the other was a combat vet whom had be wounded/injured.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2022 12:05 PM

2022-01-14T12:05:52-05:00

I've participated with both organizations. Everyone is different based on region and the members.

My experience with both was that of a lack of willingness to embrace modern technologies in both cash apps for fundraising, and bringing in new members of any age with events that are inspiring enough to create interest.

The younger veteran is not interested in spending hours at time that they don't have on ineffective meetings.

Response by PO2 Russell "Russ" Lincoln made Jan 14 at 2022 1:50 PM

2022-01-14T13:50:02-05:00

My Father-in-law signed me up for the VFW while I was in Desert Storm. When I was discharged and moved my family here I checked out the club. I attended sporadically while on night shift. Once I got day shift I went on a regular basis, got elected treasurer, long story short, whenever I had an appointment with the Post Commander (retired gent) to go over bills and get checks singed he wouldn't show. Then all I got from other members was hostility for not having the accounts up to date. Of course when it came to drinking there was a lot of that. I don't drink and got tired of drunken accusations so I quit. Haven't been back in 20 some years.

Response by Sgt William Coffee made Jan 14 at 2022 5:18 PM

2022-01-14T17:18:09-05:00

I want a place that I can go to with my wife and have a meal and some cocktails and maybe a sea story or two.

Response by MSgt Thomas O'Rourke made Jan 14 at 2022 6:30 PM

2022-01-14T18:30:25-05:00

I have approached my local VFW and AL by inviting them to come to a local baseball or hockey game in my town Allentown, PA. This is a good ice breaker.

Response by SFC Roy Jackson made Jan 14 at 2022 7:00 PM

2022-01-14T19:00:08-05:00

Recently went to a vfw where I am a life member. Now being run a mix of Nam and Korea vets. I know someone who want to run, Iraq vet, but they do not want to give up position of authority or really want to change anything. Just have to wait them out I guess.

Response by SFC Larry Triplett made Jan 15 at 2022 9:26 AM

2022-01-15T09:26:47-05:00

I had the same problem at the VFW post, I was told several times you didn't fight in a real war, The way we did in Vietnam. I'm sorry I was not old enough to serve in Vietnam, I served in Iraq and I'm an American Solider and proud that I served. We should respect each other and treat each other with Respect.

Response by Sgt Jerry Genesio made Jan 15 at 2022 1:55 PM

2022-01-15T13:55:59-05:00

The AL and VFW would be more appealing to me (1) if they were more actively involved in charitable work, (2) if they stayed out of local high schools, i.e., had nothing to do with military recruiting or Jr ROTC, and (3) if they stayed out of politics as an organization. In other words, be more of a community asset, less of an arm of the military services, and reject being an instrument of any political party. I'd also be more inclined to be an active member if alcohol and gambling were a lot lower on their agendas.

Response by PFC Mary Berry(Laincz) made Jan 15 at 2022 3:02 PM

2022-01-15T15:02:56-05:00

I agree l also get looks when l say l am a veteran, because l am a female and didnt serve in Nam. I tried to go numerous times. Also when a female says they would like to join either organization we are given the form for the Auxiliary.

Response by PO2 Bull Halsey made Jan 15 at 2022 4:34 PM

2022-01-15T16:34:28-05:00

I’d love to hear what would be helpful and useful for our Twwenty-year War Vets that we older Vets could offer and supply! We learned a lot of lessons as we aged!

Response by PO2 Bull Halsey made Jan 15 at 2022 4:39 PM

2022-01-15T16:39:07-05:00

I was entirely turned off for 50 years by. all of the service orgs. I felt like it was a connection to the VA which had blown me off six months after separation fm the military. When i really needed the help, it was a vacuum walking off the base for the last time. I would have been happy to join up if I had been met while still in and looking at life after the military. Outreach and recruitment is a key activity that older people have challenges in achieving. But that is where we need to go.
What got me interested was joining a local government Veteran’s advisory commission. I got to meet some of the leaders and members of the Marine Corps League, VVA, AMLeg, VFW, Love From Home, etc and volunteered for some activities. Met some fine youngsters and joined the Legion.
For me, it was doing activities with others who had their hearts in helping other Vets other than just complaining and criticizing others.
One does not have to serve on the end of a bayonet to be a Veteran. We found that 27 % percent did not even know they they were considered Veterans and felt unentitled to their benefits or were embarrassed they did not have to fight.
Many more did not know how to talk to older people without a lot of alcohol.They don’t get to hear their music and do younger family events. Although there are younger folks participating, it’s a reach or them.
The Old-guard Organizations drastically need to pick up on the Social Networking Assets, as that is where the younger generation of Vets. stay in contact with each other. When the next phase of VA claims come in next year or two, many will need support there and will reach out to the VA. If the VA urges them to join up with peer support, they might be eagerly approached. A lot have bad paper and need help most.

Response by PO3 Lawrence Anderson made Jan 15 at 2022 4:48 PM

2022-01-15T16:48:20-05:00

We are very involved with our school, holidays and military funerals, but it doesn’t seem to help!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 15 at 2022 5:26 PM

2022-01-15T17:26:05-05:00

Sometimes there is distinctions of generations of veterans.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2022 5:50 PM

2022-01-15T17:50:25-05:00

Not my choice. I'd volunteer but there's no USO or VAMC nearby.

Response by SSgt Judy L made Jan 15 at 2022 6:24 PM

2022-01-15T18:24:24-05:00

Not offering to sign me up for auxiliary because I’m a woman!

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2022 6:52 PM

2022-01-15T18:52:49-05:00

I’ve had a mix. Leadership of the VFW was very welcoming and encouraged joining. I remember meeting dozens of guys who were excited to see a young guy there. “(I was 23, next young was easily late 30’s at best) then I met a few that said stuff that was basically if you aren’t WW2, Korean, or Nam then youre not as much of a vet as them. And I can’t remember all the good people, but I sure can remember the bad. I’ve still visited a few times, but I’m waiting for those jokers to die off as bad as that sounds.

Response by CW2 William Melton made Jan 15 at 2022 11:31 PM

2022-01-15T23:31:44-05:00

i was in Korea 1963 and joined life membership VFW came back to the states of course and after a few years went to VFW . they ask the normal questions and i answered but since i was not given a membership card in korea i could not prove i was lifetime member and they couldnt find anything on national registry so i stopped trying to go. any how i am a card carrying Life Member of the DAV. so i really have no use for VFW any more . never tried the American Legion. good luck if you want to try one of those but if you are disabled the DAV will help .

Response by Maj Ann Lander made Jan 16 at 2022 4:51 PM

2022-01-16T16:51:53-05:00

I agree that the older members generally are not welcoming; especially to female veterans. I tried to get our legion more involved in the community but to no avail. After attending meetings monthly for 10 years, it was still apparent they didn't want me there. So I no longer attend. No one has ever asked me why I left or invited me back. I served for 9 years, which is longer than most of them. I know Waa waa waa. I tried and then I gave up. It just makes me sad.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Jan 16 at 2022 6:15 PM

2022-01-16T18:15:21-05:00

That's a problem in virtually every organization today ... VFW, Legion, Boy Scout Leaders, Masons, Elks, PTA's, etc. There are many reasons, but a lot has to do with the long-term/long-tiime, entrenched members not being welcoming to new blood. The most damaging thing to any of these organizations are the cliques and Mickey Mouse politics.

Response by CPT Brent Moody made Jan 16 at 2022 8:45 PM

2022-01-16T20:45:30-05:00

I joined the American Legion in a town north of me then I moved. My beef is they only seem interested in my participation when it comes time for dues. I can't get meeting info, can't even find where my local post is. I don't care what they might say to the State or Regional folks they truly do not care at the local level. Waste of my money and won't renew.

Response by SGT Steve McFarland made Jan 16 at 2022 10:00 PM

2022-01-16T22:00:58-05:00

I live in Florida, where the majority of Veterans are over 65, so finding younger Veterans to recruit is difficult at best.

Response by PO2 Tom Hauser made Jan 16 at 2022 11:27 PM

2022-01-16T23:27:03-05:00

Upon returning home from Vietnam over the years I joined the American Legion, Veterans of Foreign Wars (Life Member), and Vietnam Veterans of America (Life Member). I spent 1967-1969 in both the Blue Water Navy (WESTPAC-Yankee Station-Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club - 1967) and the Brown Water Navy (Hue-Phu Bai 1968-1969). The situation today is that the younger veterans are not joining - and the older veterans are finding it very difficult to reach out to and recruit these younger veterans. They would be very welcomed in either the VFW or American Legion. The VVA is just that - Vietnam Veterans - and do not have the same mission traditionally in the community as the American Legion or the VFW. Where I live the America Legion is the outfit showing up for all Veteran's funerals - playing taps, presenting the flag, providing the Honor Guard - the VFW Post was closed. The American Legion in this community has Vietnam age military veterans even though they did not serve overseas in combat - the WWII and Korean Veterans are either all dead or can no longer show up to meetings for health reasons. Over the years both the American Legion and VFW have been instrumental in community outreach and involvement - everything from sponsoring baseball-softball teams, scholarships, veteran burials, etc. Today, the challenge for both organizations is to attract younger veterans. My son is a Wounded Warrior - 100% disabled - while attached to SOF CENTCOM he fought in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other locations. He doesn't belong to any Veterans organization but is very grateful to the DAV Organization that assisted him during and after his medical discharge from active military duty. What needs to happen is for the VFW and American Legion to clearly define their mission statements, define why they are relevant today to all veterans regardless of age, and how they benefit veterans and their respective communities. The problem as I see it is communication and overcoming this issue of how to effectively recruit the young veterans today. It's not that we have too few veterans - we have been at war now for the last 30 fucking years and back in my era the Vietnam war went on for over a decade. No, we are not a just bunch of old farts sitting around drinking beer or playing bingo and rehashing war stories - we do good things for veterans and our communities - but evidently that "Word" isn't getting out. We need younger veterans in leadership roles in both of these organizations that can do a better job of relating to the younger veterans and attract them to these organizations. If that doesn't happen you will continue to see declining membership and meeting attendance at both the VFW and American Legion posts throughout the country - which will be their death knell unless drastic and immediate action is taken! To the younger veterans out there - join your local VFW Post or American Legion Post - they need you. If some of their membership is not friendly - fuck them. Show these old veterans how to communicate with young veterans on Facebook, Twitter, Snap Chat, Instagram, LinkedIn etc. If you served your country in any branch of military service including the Coast Guard (which we worked with in Vietnam as they provided fire support and did patrols along the Vietnam coast) and you have a DD214 with a Honorable Discharge you are both welcomed and desperately needed in these organizations. Thank you for your service to our country!

Response by SGM Edward Sullivan made Jan 16 at 2022 11:52 PM

2022-01-16T23:52:14-05:00

Because my combat tours where Desert Storm and Somalia, the only things I ever got was silence and open hostility in both places. I haven’t returned and never will. This old Sergeant Major refuses to be made to feel less than. Both organizations National Leadership have known this fact for years but have done nothing to make the post Vietnam combat vets feel any more welcome.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2022 11:31 AM

2022-01-17T11:31:36-05:00

Probably a generational thing, like everything these days. "Newer" vets likely don't have the time, let alone desire to participate. Another thing is not letting service define the person. Needing to have a job as well takes up time.
It's not the 50s, 60s, 70s anymore. Times change, things come and go.
I joined the VFW in 2008, because they were outside the PX, never actually done anything with it.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2022 1:39 PM

2022-01-17T13:39:34-05:00

Well, for one thing, serving on floaty things, I'm not a veteran of a foreign war.

Response by LTC Tom Barbeau made Jan 17 at 2022 2:15 PM

2022-01-17T14:15:16-05:00

I belong to both organizations, but in my town, both groups meet during normal business hours, so it is impossible to show up with any kind of regularity. I can see why they do it, but it doesn't hep me to be an active member. I still have a full time job.

Response by PO2 Matthew Schroer made Jan 17 at 2022 8:02 PM

2022-01-17T20:02:34-05:00

Leadership needs to recognize that there are female veterans
Recognize that many vets weren't war vets, many were support or rear echelon types at best. Some even did odd deployments and non stereotypical work.
I also don't want to sit around and drink all the time. I think that health and mental health is something that many of us look past.
As many others have said, I don't qualify as a "real vet" to many.
I also don't relate to many other "watch football and drink" types. I have a different set of tastes that are off putting to others.

Response by HN Jeffrey Cohan made Jan 18 at 2022 5:36 PM

2022-01-18T17:36:11-05:00

Tell them to bite you. I would say, just because you fought in a jungle doesn't make my life easier. i fought house to house in Iraq and Afghanistan..you fought in 1 country. You experience isn't any worse or better than mine. I was called a baby killer also....I was a Corpsman so try again.

Response by SPC Carlton Phelps made Jan 18 at 2022 7:00 PM

2022-01-18T19:00:28-05:00

For me, they need to be less conservative.

Response by SPC Charles McFate made Jan 19 at 2022 1:26 AM

2022-01-19T01:26:55-05:00

When I and a 80 year old veteran friend walked into our local AL hall for the first time, we were not greeted nor when I asked for membership info, none was available. It was for a Cajun shrimp bowl feast. I paid for our meals and we waited for dinner the bell. Food was good, booze was cheap but again, no acknowledgement to veterans (there were quite a few civies there). It was like going to a local bar and pretty much you are on your own. We did make the best of it. When I did find someone part of the "staff", I asked why they did not ask before the meal; who were vets, who was a first timer etc or some type of welcome. He just shrugged. We tried a few more times, I even joined for a couple years but it was too dysfunctional. In 2 years I think I received 3 or 4 of the "monthly" news letters. Went to a couple board meetings offering my help to no avail... I did visit a couple other halls that seemed better but were far from my home. Once this C-19 cr@p is finally over, I may look into one that a vet told me about. Thank you to all my fellow brothers and sisters for your current and/or past service. And peace to the ones that have gone before. God Bless America, still the greatest nation in the world, past and present! Let's keep it that way!

Response by PO3 Christine Hart made Jan 19 at 2022 9:04 AM

2022-01-19T09:04:46-05:00

My #1 pet peeve with any veteran organization is how they treat female veterans. We either have to fight tooth and nail to even be acknowledged as a veteran and not a wife of a veteran (which I'm not), or we get relegated to the auxiliary group.

I served my country no differently than any man did. Acknowledge it and treat female veterans the same way you do the male veteran.

Response by SFC Gina Hall made Jan 19 at 2022 10:06 AM

2022-01-19T10:06:35-05:00

This is a question my VFW post continues to ask? We continue to grow because of active recruiting, yet not all participate and few are the young blood we need. Young members or would be members are busy making a living or raising family. The question is how do we pull their family in to make it easier for them to participate and enrich their lives along with the community.
I am not the youngest, but at 52 I am the youngest that takes part in everything and the only female who does. One reason is that much that we do is during the time younger people are working and having family time.
What each post needs to consider is what can we create or become involved in where VFW members can include, spend time with and mentor their children.
Sports leagues? Hunting clubs? Art groups? Fun events?
Maybe host a yearly sporting tournament, an art show, rifle safety courses, VFW family play days in the park ran like a unit day with different competitive events.
If we can provide family participation and create anticipation for the activities, then we will grow.
That means we will need to become Veterans of Foreign Wars (and their families). In doing so maybe we will help heal more vets and bond more families which strengthens our communities.

Response by MAJ Harry Whitlock made Jan 19 at 2022 11:34 AM

2022-01-19T11:34:30-05:00

Make the posts more family oriented, not dark, smoky places where too many vets are drinking. Also, stop the politics, FFS!! I've heard of posts that have become overly political. It becomes a place where if you don't support politician XYZ, you're nothing but a communist/socialist/fascist. Not a great way to build camaraderie or represent the military services and the US Constitution. I'm a member of both the American Legion and VFW but don't visit the local posts for this very reason.

Response by MAJ Harry Whitlock made Jan 19 at 2022 11:42 AM

2022-01-19T11:42:12-05:00

For one thing, some posts need to become more family and community oriented. Get away from the days of a dark, smoke-filled bar with drinking at all hours. Do more than just march in parades and provide color guards. Do some projects that help the needy and deserving in the community. Something more than Boys State or Legion Baseball. I'm not saying get rid of this support. These are great for statewide & national service but more needs to be done locally.

Another thing is to stop the political nonsense within the walls of the post or during events. I know of one post that became so toxic when members supporting a certain presidential candidate that any other member who didn't agree with was suddenly a communist/socialist/fascist or whatever. Not a great way to build an organization and retain members. I belong to both the Legion and VFW, but don't participate with the local posts for these very reasons.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2022 4:08 PM

2022-01-19T16:08:43-05:00

Totally agree with Bob Hoover. Vets are family centered now with very few looking for the "corner bar" to sit at for 4-5 hrs each day and tell war stories. So many ways to make them a place to visit for the Vet alone or the Vet and his friends and family.

Response by LCpl Andrew Montoya made Jan 19 at 2022 7:53 PM

2022-01-19T19:53:58-05:00

Honestly, here's a few. First, today's vets are different. VETTV comes to mind. Second, events. I know I'd be more apt to go if there was more community involvement, stuff like that. When I picture a VFW I see dive bar style filled with nam vets. Nothing wrong with that, but not as appealing to younger vets. Third, be more open about what they offer. Every VFW in my area is a building that says VFW and thats it. If you don't walk in you wouldn't know anything about it. Make it known its a hangout, a place for history, remembrance, celebration, and VA help.. I think more "curb appeal" would do wonders.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Jan 19 at 2022 9:42 PM

2022-01-19T21:42:57-05:00

Does the American Legion allow those of us who served in Germany but were not deployed to battle during wartime? I had nothing to do with whether or not my unit was called.

Response by SSG Ronald Ralph made Jan 20 at 2022 7:33 AM

2022-01-20T07:33:40-05:00

There's nothing they can do to make it more appealing for my wife and I. I was medically discharged in 1993, and joining was never a thought for me. 1. It's mostly a social club with a bar. My wife and I are not bar people. We never went to the Enlisted nor NCO CLub once during my 11 years of service. 2. My wife and I are both non-smokers. We don't like the smell of cigarettes, cigars, pipes, and stale beer that has been spilled and absorbed into the wood. 3. Nothing good ever happens in bars. Nothing!

With that in mind, I'll say this. I owned a Mobile Disc Jockey Service for 22 1/2 years. I've done many weddings and parties inside the clubs. They all had dark paneling and smelled. I couldn't wait to get out of any of them!

I know they have gatherings and cookouts, but my wife and I are pretty much homebodies and enjoy family gatherings rather than social gatherings.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2022 9:54 AM

2022-01-20T09:54:17-05:00

I would start with not allowing smoking inside the facilities.

I joined the VFW as a member at large while I was still on active duty, but never attended any meetings. After I retired, I visited my local VFW hall in 2015 and when I walked in the door, the first thing I noticed was the gray haze from all the smokers and immediately was overwhelmed by the smell of cigarette and cigar smoke. I smoked for about the entirety of my 30 years of service and quit when I was diagnosed with cancer. I asked the “nice” lady at the front desk about the smoking and was informed that they allow it and don’t have any plans to change the policy. I said my thanks and left with no intentions of ever returning.

I’m not sure if the same policies exist in all VFW facilities, but that was the number 1 turn-off for me…

Response by SSG Bob Robertson made Jan 20 at 2022 10:54 AM

2022-01-20T10:54:28-05:00

A bunch of old people sitting around getting drunk. Not inviting. I do feel inferior that I spent 9 1/2 years in the Army during peace time. I would have gone any day, I was ready. My call never came.

Response by 1SG Daniel Falcon made Jan 20 at 2022 10:54 AM

2022-01-20T10:54:57-05:00

I'm 65 and gave been with the VFW for over 22 years. And I do agree with the comment made about the older members about what war you served in, and I have seen that some members who served in Viet Nam had comments made to younger vets about their service and some of the comments were degrading. Other reasons not enough membership in the VFW is that younger vets are still working and have no time to participate. Older Vets need to be more accepting of the younger vets that have served. I'll tell you our younger vets in these last years of war have served so many tours and some just don't want to relive experiences.

Response by PFC Nicholas Hartt made Jan 20 at 2022 1:01 PM

2022-01-20T13:01:12-05:00

When I tried to join the VFW in 1970 I was told I couldn't join because Vietnam was not a war but a police action. I also was told "we never lost a war".

Response by SPC Matthew Templeton made Jan 20 at 2022 2:35 PM

2022-01-20T14:35:18-05:00

I'm now "in charge" of the entertainment at my post, but it's still nearly impossible to get people out of their old ways. Same bands, same events, year in and year out. It gets boring fast. Not to mention everyone in there is up to their heads in drama form the past 30 years. All this he said, she said flying around as soon as you walk in. I've ignored it as I only joined to assist with the honor guard, but there's no recruitment. Thanks to covid and age, we've lost a lot of members past couple years. At events, I ask members to show up and try to recruit younger vets, but they're all older and say that they don't want to attend their events. There were 5 members at the largest fundraising event and I had a dozen OIF OEF guys there. Nobody talked to them about membership, and nobody helped. The SAL and AUX run everything mostly. I know we can do better, however my officer position doesn't give me the ability to do anything!

Response by COL Robert Gaudsmith made Jan 20 at 2022 6:13 PM

2022-01-20T18:13:58-05:00

Meh. I tried the local "I got drafted and went to Vietnam" club. A bunch of old chain-smoking drunks. Good luck with that family-oriented thing.

Response by Cpl Brook Miller made Jan 20 at 2022 6:51 PM

2022-01-20T18:51:42-05:00

I'm a Gulf War Vet and have been a member of both The Legion and "The V" since 1992 ish.
I grew essentially grew up in both, having a WW II submariner as a Father.
The organizations are what you make of them. Regardless of what you think of the old "codgers" sitting at the end of the bar, you make the effort to sit and listen !
People are creatures of habit and we insulate ourselves to "our group".
Having been on a short AID of recruiting, it's not difficult for me to walk up and introduce myself to a "post stranger" with a smile on my face.
I encourage all to join and get involved !
We need each other !

Response by SPC Martin Meyer made Jan 20 at 2022 10:34 PM

2022-01-20T22:34:48-05:00

I was an American Legion member for many years. They started a post close to me I called expressed my interest and never heard back again not a very welcoming proposition. Just lost interest over time and let my membership expire and will not renew.

Response by SFC Mark Klaers made Jan 21 at 2022 7:42 AM

2022-01-21T07:42:43-05:00

My unit was providing static displays for a memorial to a deceased former commander of a local American Legion post. For all our effort, my troops were made to feel like "peons" by the membership. Further adding insult, when we were done, I went to the bar to by a couple rounds for my volunteers. The bar maid made it a point to ignore us and the members repeated cut in front of my boys. When I had enough and confronted the next line cutter, he acted like his former rank of captain meant something to me.
We were there for them. I promise it hasn't happened since, and won't! I will never join a group like that and I doubt neither will any of those soldiers involved. If that post closes down the road, I say "GOOD RIDDANCE!".

Response by SPC Eric Norton made Jan 21 at 2022 10:05 AM

2022-01-21T10:05:02-05:00

I am a Vietnam veteran. I despise the labels ....... War era veteran. We all signed a blank check payable up to and including our lives. All wore the same uniforms. Time to loose the "holier than thou" attitude guys. Be glad a fellow veteran was not put in harms way. But for the grace of God, our names are not on The Wall.

Response by SSgt Carol Gross made Jan 21 at 2022 11:55 AM

2022-01-21T11:55:49-05:00

My husband and I are both Veterans. Years ago when we lived in Kansas the VFW had lots of activities, great meals, and many members who regularly patronized the post. They had family activities plus live music and dances in addition to bingo and much community involvement....in other words, something for everyone. We knew everyone and felt very comfortable socializing there. Not sure if times have just changed or what but we have lived in Arizona for over 20 years and found that going into a VFW or Legion post here feels very unwelcoming. Maybe if we were regular patrons we would not be looked upon as if we were invading their space. Plus the fact that they allow smoking and it seems like there is always a heavy fog of smoke hanging in the air. Who wants to go somewhere knowing you are going to come out smelling like a stale cigarette. I also agree with the response about being made to feel like you are not a REAL veteran....I don't think they even realize they are doing it.

Response by CPO James Barnhart made Jan 21 at 2022 6:18 PM

2022-01-21T18:18:13-05:00

I remember from back in the '80's, when we VietNam vets went to the VFW, the WW2 guys told us the same thing. We left and didn't go back.
But, I see both organizations as smoke filled rooms with a bar that has a less expensive place to drink. I even saw that just a year ago at a local VFW. So, it has not changed.
Many of us have zero interest in that. If they get rid of the smoking, that would be a good start. But, it will have to have something that will attract the younger members. ( and us older guys too)

Response by SCPO Jeff Conz made Jan 21 at 2022 6:29 PM

2022-01-21T18:29:51-05:00

Make it more attractive to Cold War Veterans, after all, the Cold War wasn’t all that Cold for some of us.

Response by MAJ Vance Chartier made Jan 21 at 2022 7:01 PM

2022-01-21T19:01:13-05:00

Both the Legion and the VFW in my town are very welcoming to younger veterans. I've never heard any of them state anything but respect towards the newer veterans. As a member of both, and in the leadership of one of them, I can attest that the veterans I have met show nothing but respect to any veteran that has served honorably. As a matter of fact, the VFW has leaders that served in the current wars. There are other veterans organizations out there as well. I am a member of the Society of 40 Men and 8 Horses. This organization started out as an honor society of the American Legion but separated from the Legion in the early 60s. They are a smaller organization and are always looking for new members. They take their name from the fact the boxcars that took troops and supplies from port to the front lines in WWI would hold either 40 men or 8 horses. This organization supports many of the same causes the Legion and VFW do, besides supporting veteran causes their biggest causes they support are the Merci(Gratitude) Boxcars that were a gift from France after WWII for sending 700 boxcars of food and grain after WWII. They other big cause they take pride in is Nurses Training and provide scholarships routinely both locally and nationally to students pursuing nursing degrees. Those of you who love history would love this organization because they do preserve a little known piece of American History that everyone should know about. If anyone has a question about this organization, you can contact me at [login to see]

Response by SFC Richard OConnor made Jan 21 at 2022 7:38 PM

2022-01-21T19:38:43-05:00

When I returned from Nam it was very out front, they told me face to face they didn’t want or need my kind. Changed after a couple years but I see it’s the same same

Response by PO3 Ron Cowher made Jan 22 at 2022 9:48 AM

2022-01-22T09:48:39-05:00

Man, some of the relies below are disheartening. The name of the organization is VETRAN of Foreign Wars. It is not the VIET NAM veterans of foreign wars. It is also not the SHOOT 'EM UP veterans of foreign wars either. I think I'd be contacting somebody higher up the chain about your shoddy treatment. I'm sure they would like to know about any attempt to limit membership.

Response by SPC Anna Larson made Jan 22 at 2022 1:55 PM

2022-01-22T13:55:55-05:00

One that believes women can be Veterans also and don't shove us off to their "auxiliary". And ones that do events other than being a veteran biker gang.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jan 22 at 2022 4:20 PM

2022-01-22T16:20:53-05:00

Many of them still smoke in the facility as it is private organization. Very unappealing, otherwise I would be a lifetime member.

Response by Sgt Gina Hotard made Jan 22 at 2022 6:52 PM

2022-01-22T18:52:08-05:00

Being a female in both VFW and American Legion (post side not auxiliary) is a pain. Talk about being shunned! Tired of battling

Response by Cpl Ernest Thomas made Jan 22 at 2022 8:32 PM

2022-01-22T20:32:36-05:00

I'm a member of American Legion post 472 Youngstown, OH. The "Leadersip" is like being in a COMMUNIST STATE! OLD, antiquated ONE WAY! Their way OR THE HIGHWAY attitudes. Don't listen to the members ideas so the veteran member don't go to the meetings. A lot of these older veterans think it's still 1970 and don't respect anyone that's not a Vietnam vet.. The VFW and AMVETS in this area is the same way! These clubs will be closing within 10 years when all these old pr!cks finally die off. I used to say welcome home to all the Vietnam vets but anymore, they're the most selfish, self centered, people I've met so for that, Scr*w your welcome home and scr*w you. We all fid our job, you're not special!! Those that are special, WWII and Korean Vets.. the VN Vets, NOT SO MUCH!

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Jan 22 at 2022 9:27 PM

2022-01-22T21:27:35-05:00

I have been a member of the American Legion for 11 years. But I seldom participate because every legion post I have been affiliated with revolved around the bar. And many had smoking within the post. There are many good thing the AL does but it has to come into the 21 st century and welcome all veterans and show what the true brotherhood can be and should be. I am a Vietnam Era vet and I have spent years not be welcome by fellow veterans, vilified by the public and up until a couple of years ago the government. Things are slowly getting better b I think now us "old farts" have to look ahead and make these fine organizations better for the next generation of veterans. I'm willing to help! Are you?

Response by SSG Ray Elliott made Jan 23 at 2022 9:23 AM

2022-01-23T09:23:50-05:00

I belong to both the American Legion and the VFW, but I rarely go to post functions (I play taps for them from time to time for veterans funerals, and ceremonies on Memorial and Veteran's day). I don't attend the post regularly because I don't need a cheap place to drink, and not much else seems to happens there anymore. I tried to get the post more active, and I'm a former White Hat VFW commander. Several times functions I offered to run were voted down by the membership. I gave up!! If you want to get and keep younger members you need to be active and visible in the community. Younger vets will volunteer and join a good cause, they won't waste their time and money going to pointless meetings where nothing is accomplished. I may try to go back again but it's been several decades since I've attended a meeting, if it's more of what I experienced before I won't stay long.

Response by 1SG Ken Bedwell made Jan 23 at 2022 5:16 PM

2022-01-23T17:16:40-05:00

The posts really don't do a good job of reaching out, nor do they make new members feel welcome when they do come in. I guess the answer is improve public relations. I have been a member of both for years. Yet rarely hear from the posts concerning meetings, events, challenges or goals.

Response by SSG Jack Scott made Jan 23 at 2022 6:11 PM

2022-01-23T18:11:46-05:00

Nothing! I served in the Marines and the Army in Beirut Lebanon, desert shield/storm and Afghanistan. I went to the VFW, American legion, and AMVETS. All there treated me like crap with %100 Combat Related Retard. I got ambushed by the Walmart Scooter brigade about my rating. They know my rating from my FL DV TAG on my Truck just because I could walk down the Isles of Walmart. I won’t hold back against this BC but it’s funny I don’t get that treatment from my Dad and Uncles all NAM Vets. Only my Dad won’t stop calling me Jr. at 56.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jan 23 at 2022 8:46 PM

2022-01-23T20:46:14-05:00

I have never been to a VFW or a AL post. Never felt the need to surround myself with a bunch of drunks, and that was the reputation all of them had. Even now, I am pretty much not interested in hanging around other veterans 90% of the time i encounter one of four kinds of vets:

1. the whiny bitchy Vietnam vets that whine they didn't get parades when they came home. Funny thing, I don't remember getting a parade when I came home from Iraq, but I don't whine about it.
2. Vets that lying about their service. Claiming they can't get rated because their medical record is classified, claiming to be a Vietnam veteran when they are not old enough to be, or lying about where they were posted.
3. Political vets that don't have a clue. Met a few of on Rally Point, some claiming stupid crap like the COVID vaccine is still experimental, or claiming Jane Fonda screwed over veteran's, or that democrats and democratic politicians don't like the military, etc.
4. Just plain but dumb fucking veteran's. That idiot in Arizona who died form brain cancer died because he was stupid, not because the VA failed him. If I was diagnosed with brain cancer I would be calling the VA every other day wondering where my appointment and treatment was, Cancer doesn't fuck around and neither should you. And if I couldn't get treated at the VA I would go to the local county ER and get treated through medicare. But what really irks me is when I am in line at the VA and some dumb ass is looking at the sign like he can't read the directions in front of him.

i can not imagine subjecting myself to that environment in an effort to have "fun".

I have friends from my unit I hang out with, but i guess that is a benefit of being in the Guard. We have lasting relationships. Sometimes we get a little drunk and make the mistake of talking about shit that happened in front of the wives or something, but for the most part we keep that shit squirreled away till we are alone. And it is nice to be able to talk to people who actually know exactly what you have been through because they were there. And it feels better to remember those lost when you are with the right people.

Getting shot at is easy to relate too, if you have been shot at. Command issues and command politics can only truly be understood by those you serve with.

And it feels nice when people who you served with tell you, you did the job right, when you have doubts about shit you did.

Response by PO3 Kathy Getchey made Jan 24 at 2022 5:43 AM

2022-01-24T05:43:11-05:00

My combat veteran husband and I discussed joining when we got out. I called the legion post and they were excited to ask about my husband. I asked about my joining, and I was told the girls in the kitchen could always use help. Nuff said.

Response by SGT Stephen Jaffe made Jan 24 at 2022 8:01 PM

2022-01-24T20:01:07-05:00

I'm think the solution is to combine all veterans organizations into one veterans organization. Membership should be open to everyone who served in the military.

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Jan 25 at 2022 10:10 AM

2022-01-25T10:10:54-05:00

I'm a life member of the VFW and am very disappointed with the way fellow veterans are treated by the post members. Each Post has it's clicks. One I belonged to was If you're Air Force you fit in but you had to be Officer, Aircrew, or senior enlisted. One other post was Only Vietnam Vets were OK. Another was WWII vets and it's changed now to Vietnam only. I don't know about American Legion, but it's probably the same. How to fix this? Sorry but there will always be clicks, groups of folks who are closed to any outside influence. My Father a WWII combat medic joined the VFW late in life and found a closed group who shunned him because he was Army not Army Air Force. I wish I knew a way to welcome any and all veterans to the VFW but sadly there will always be clicks. I am not an active member of any post now because of the closed mindedness.

Response by COL John McClellan made Jan 26 at 2022 10:47 AM

2022-01-26T10:47:47-05:00

Thanks for starting this discussion, MAJ Hoover. The only way change happens in these multi-generational organizations is for the younger generations to get involved: volunteer, attend meetings and exercise their voice, and find a way to contribute. (BTW - I was "younger" at 50 years old when I started at my Post...) Don't take no for an answer. Shrug-off this "old-timer" stuff and persist! These organizations do enormous work supporting Veterans: thousands of dollars locally and billions at the National level, but most of it is the efforts of volunteers. BE the CHANGE. Lead by example. Being welcoming is a choice - simply be more welcoming! Honor all combat service, stop this "real war" crap. Admit all Veterans as Guests in your Canteen, even if not eligible to join. Our Post provides meeting space for between 8 -- 10 other local Veterans groups, at no cost to them. All Posts in my state (and nationally) are graded, annually for All-State and All-American status. These programs necessitate charitable activity in the community. It's going on - it may just not be obvious, or - a Post only has the energy (meaning, enough volunteers) to just survive, and not to thrive.

Response by LTC Betty Holm made Feb 19 at 2022 1:48 PM

2022-02-19T13:48:04-05:00

You can only join the VFW if you were in a foreign war and the American Legion if you had any military service. We are working with local bands and the city to get them involved. We do Kareokee on Friday and Saturday night. The key is have guest sign-in. They tell their friends and great Service for all. Never had a Vietnam Vet tell me that. Without the Nam Vet you would have none of the benefits you have. Thank them for keeping their promise that another Soldier would ever come home and be treated as they were. THANK THEM!!!!

Response by LTC Betty Holm made Feb 19 at 2022 2:01 PM

2022-02-19T14:01:01-05:00

I am very proud to be a member of VFW post 8785 in Mesquite, TX. Our success is due to our auxiliary partnership and open arms of our community. We to have female officers that are very involved in our post both from Desert Storm and OIF and OEF. Get involved.

Response by SSG Chuck Knabusch made Feb 22 at 2022 9:45 AM

2022-02-22T09:45:26-05:00

Joined the American Legion in Mississippi and then moved to Texas. Can’t get the local post to transfer my membership, so I guess I’ll just remain a Mississippi post member and not attend.

Response by Timothy Smith made Feb 25 at 2022 10:22 AM

2022-02-25T10:22:55-05:00

As Veitnam vet we went through the same crap with the WW II crowd. We we the losers, first US War loss. I took crap from guys who said they wouldn't fire their weapons cause they didn't want to clean them...seriously, and they joked about it. I fired thousands out of my 60 and I'm a loser? I stayed away for many years and finally join the Legion. Was better the second time..Too bad we have to treat each other like crap.

Response by MSgt James Bryan made Feb 25 at 2022 6:14 PM

2022-02-25T18:14:46-05:00

I retired in 1996 after 24 years in the Air Force. Looked into joining the VFW. But because I never set foot in VietNam. Just Thailand. I want worthy of membership. I said screw you guys. Took myself and my wife (also an Air Force Vet) and my money and time and went on to volunteer in other organizations. Now they are begging for members, I wouldn't join if they rolled out a red carpet, and offered free beer. They are dying because of their attitude and hateful ways of dealing with the vets that didn't actually serve in Nam.

Response by SPC William Haugen made Feb 25 at 2022 9:42 PM

2022-02-25T21:42:40-05:00

I'm not interested in drinking abd breathing in second hand smoke. I don't think these organizations are for me.

Response by SFC Dave Garcia made Feb 26 at 2022 2:55 PM

2022-02-26T14:55:39-05:00

As a VFW member I have ridden across the country and stopped at chapters in many states. The problem isn't with the VFW, it is with the leadership in each chapter. New blood in charge makes a world of difference. Some places are just a bar to allow the old guard to hang out together in peace, and that is all they want. Like any other group, if that isn't what you want, go elsewhere. If that is what you want, or they want, leave them alone to do their own thing. We have chapters here on the western slope of Colorado that do both, the bar is for the old timers, and the rest of the building is used for family get togethers, boy scout events, fund raisers, all kinds of public events. Just because an old soldier is a grumpy old bastard, doesn't mean they are wrong or need to change their place to fit you.

Response by MSgt Cynthia Nobliski made Feb 26 at 2022 3:55 PM

2022-02-26T15:55:29-05:00

I'm Vietnam era Navy, retired AF. When I first looked at the American Legion they seemed more concerned about treatment of the American flag than dealing with veterans with internal gonads. I understand our local VFW is female friendly.

Response by PO1 Greg Moyes made Feb 27 at 2022 2:24 AM

2022-02-27T02:24:09-05:00

Similar experience but this happened at a USO with three other Vets as we were returning and processing out from being deployed overseas for my third tour. When we walked into the USO we were asked if we were Vets, as we were here in the States and in our civilian attire as told by our CO to wear for our flights.

We showed them our CAC cards and they asked if we were retired military. We stated, no, however, we were just getting back from Iraq and this was in 2008 after a hellish year. If you recall, 2008 was during the buildup and the surge. Fighting was raging. I was with NSW and we had been in so many fights overseas - too many to count - and yet this guy at the USO told us we couldn't be in there because it was ONLY for retired military members.

I don't ever recall hearing or knowing that was a rule but I guess being in major firefights in Ramadi, Hobby, and Fallujah wasn't good enough for him. I just thought that it odd that if a SM had served from '76-'96 possibly missing an overseas deployment here or there but because he did his 20, three guys who've been in 8-12yrs, who just returned from multiple deployments and shot at, rocketed, mortared, and IEDs go off on our convoys wasn't good to sit in the USO to have some drinks and watch some sports on the TV. Anyone else ever experience this before?

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2022 4:41 AM

2022-02-27T04:41:59-05:00

I joined a few years ago and am still a member at large. Last month, I actually paid for life, and once I am done with this deployment, I plan to join the post close to my home.

I think younger blood is needed at all posts as the Vietnam and prior era folks are sadly dying off.

It will be up to us Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom, and other operations to keep the posts thriving.

Response by FN Shawn Watkins made Feb 27 at 2022 3:15 PM

2022-02-27T15:15:10-05:00

I'm Commander of VFW Post 29 in Haverhill, Massachusetts. We are one of the oldest posts in the nation (25JAN1917), and you have stated the honest truth.
Yes, some of the older members are not very welcoming.
Yes, we need to become more family oriented, and welcoming.
Yes, we need to dispell the image of a bunch of guys sitting at a bar telling the same old war stories over and over.

As a Desert Storm Vet, that was my preconceived idea of what it was going to be like.
When I joined, the tail end of that was still around. Those guys are gone from our post. The last of them faded away when my response to "this is how we've always done it" went from silence to "and how's that working now?".
We may be the oldest Post in Massachusetts, but we've embraced new ideas. We get our hands dirty, we're discussing hiring a sitter to occupy the kids while the parent attends the meeting, or paints a Korean War Vets house.
We are a boots on the ground, seeking opportunities to help, building relationships with the community as a whole, thinking outside the "old box" kind of post.
We no longer have a bar, or a building of our own. The old way of doing things took those from us.
What we do have is a 6×8 office, a 105 year old charter, and a core group of members who have embraced change, and are trying to make a difference in our corner of this world.
Other posts around the country are trying to do the same thing we're doing, But we need the next generation of Veterans to share their vision of what we need to become. We try to be welcoming, but we're old, getting old sucks, don't take it personal if we're a bit rough. Ignore the unwelcoming voices they'll fade away soon. The WWII Generation is virtually gone, Korean War Generation is fading, Vietnam Vets are getting old, and want to pass it on, I'm who they're passing it to, the Desert Storm Vet, I can carry it a bit, but I can't alone. It's time for the next generation to start filling the ranks, and guide us, just as every generation before you has. It's how it works, it's how we keep the benefits we've earned, it's how we continue to honor our dead, it's how we keep Lincoln's Promise.

Response by Maj Dale Smith made Feb 27 at 2022 5:16 PM

2022-02-27T17:16:02-05:00

I would echo both Maj Bob Hoover and MSgt Steve Holt's comments. In addition there was a comment about "Foreign Wars" as being germane. Unless you fought in the Civil, Revelutionary, or Indian wars, all the others were foreign. If you never deployed to a foreign country, your service in the US supported a foreign action. If you are wearing a National Defense Medal, you are qualified.

Response by PO3 Melissa Cunningham made Feb 27 at 2022 5:31 PM

2022-02-27T17:31:01-05:00

I respect the fact the the AL is for all but I have a problem with non Veterans having more rights then Veterans. Meaning people that have never served can do what ever they want to the point that Veterans don’t feel safe going in to an event or to just hang out. Not alone a Female Veteran should always feel safe going buy herself and men Veterans should always have their six.

Response by CPO Melvin Miller made Feb 27 at 2022 6:53 PM

2022-02-27T18:53:06-05:00

I do now belong to both but at the state and national level not a local post. After Vietnam welcomed by the American Legion and a few years after Desert Storm by The VFW

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Feb 27 at 2022 8:26 PM

2022-02-27T20:26:31-05:00

I'm a VFW Life member and recently rejoined the Legion because my church bulletin had a notice that they were in danger of closing because of a lack of members. Well I paid my dues directly to the Post in early December 2021 and they have yet to cash my check, the National organization has me listed now as delinquent and calls to the National and State membership chairperson have either never been returned or been of little help. Also when I contacted the Post a few times directly they keep telling me they'll check with the Adjutant on this and get back to me but of course they never have. The Life Membership cost is outrageous also. here I am 67 years old and it would cost me over two times what it cost me to become a VFW Life Member when I was in my 30s! Probably won't rejoin after this as it simply seem that no one on this organization gives a sh_t!!

Response by SP5 Rich Goulet made Feb 28 at 2022 11:19 AM

2022-02-28T11:19:40-05:00

Don’t know what post is bashing younger veterans to join. We remember what it was like when the WWII guys would say we weren’t in a real war. My VFW post (3873 Naperville IL) reaches out to returning vets to give them a place for comradiry (sp?). And we listen when they talk.

If you are a Nam vet and are not welcoming to others, then shame on you.

Response by SP5 David Cox made Feb 28 at 2022 4:02 PM

2022-02-28T16:02:32-05:00

When I ETS'd, I was told I wasn't eligible for either. Not my fault I was able to serve in a quiet time (78-82) and didn't see war. I understand they've changed the requirements now, probably because of the declining membership mentioned in the original post, but it's too late for me. I did go on later to spend 3 years in the Berlin Brigade, which I understand might qualify for VFW membership, but again, why bother? So I guess the original question still stands - what can these organizations do to make me interested in joining? I'm not interested in cheap beer and smoky games of pool, so what appeal do they have to me?

Response by PV2 Robert Wuestenberg made Feb 28 at 2022 7:38 PM

2022-02-28T19:38:15-05:00

I am a Combat wounded disabled Viet Nam vet. My experience was quite good with Vet groups after return. I did however see a large part of the older vets were non-combat vets and if they put out "bad vibes" they should be ashamed of themselves. No excuse after the treatment of Nam vets when returning. If Nam vets are treating OIF/OEF vets badly, they need their asses kicked.

Response by SFC Robert Townsend made Mar 1 at 2022 7:35 AM

2022-03-01T07:35:16-05:00

I quit drinking shortly after leaving the service. (Retired). It’s seem at least to me that it’s nothing more than a bunch of old drinking buddies getting together to have a few drinks and complain about anything and everything. To negative of an atmosphere. I never enjoyed watch people become jerks after drinking to much. Now I’m am a Pastor and just don’t need that in my life. I pray I’m wrong but I joined a few times and it was the same.

Response by SrA Michael Brennan made Mar 1 at 2022 6:34 PM

2022-03-01T18:34:46-05:00

It always amazes me how unwelcoming older veterans (mostly Vietnam, now) are to other combat veterans like us.

It’s also incredibly hypocritical of them, considering how badly they were treated when they got back, they have always asked for sympathy. As brothers we’ve always given it, and then they turn around and essentially do the same thing that was done to them. It’s often why I have very little sympathy for them anymore, I see how they behave.

The organizations have to be more family-friendly for sure, but also more Gulf War and Iraq/Afghanistan Wars-friendly. Otherwise, without both of those the only way American Legion and especially VFW come back is when the older Vietnam Veterans die. So sad to say.

Response by PO1 Donna Sayre made Mar 2 at 2022 10:11 AM

2022-03-02T10:11:42-05:00

I am a Vietnam veteran and was told from day one that because I was a female I wasn't welcome with either group. As far as I'm concerned they can both kiss my A$$ into perpetuity. Makes me sorry I worked so hard to save their lives.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2022 7:48 PM

2022-03-03T19:48:45-05:00

If there was a mission, maybe a Search and Rescue volunteer group or Emergency Service support group. I am not interested in drinking cheap whiskey and reminiscing about combat and playing the one-up games. Even Disabled Vets can perform C2 functions and logistics support. Those of us who are able can hit the hills looking for lost hikers or putting down sand bags with a skill set that is well suited for crisis response. Serve our community when in its greatest hour of need... just my two cents.

Response by SPC Tom Farley made Mar 13 at 2022 4:23 PM

2022-03-13T16:23:35-04:00

I think the way to get to the younger vets is to explain to them what the VFW and American Legion does for veterans. The more members those organizations have the more pressure can be put on Congrees to supports ALL veterans.
As a veteran of Operation Just Cause, Panama, I was welcomed in my VFW and American Legion, wholeheartedly. As an officer of both I try to continue that openness to other vets.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Mar 18 at 2022 6:14 AM

2022-03-18T06:14:22-04:00

Offer space for big screen watching of sports, or a women veterans group gathering, etc. And yes, they absolutely need to be more community involved...find out about and show up at food drives, etc wearing something that identifies the legion (like a hat or jacket) and be ready with contact cards and to offer potential members tours of the post.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Mar 18 at 2022 6:15 AM

2022-03-18T06:15:24-04:00

If I have to tell them one more time, that I SERVED, I am not a family member of a veteran....

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Mar 18 at 2022 12:39 PM

2022-03-18T12:39:33-04:00

This seems to be cyclic.
I remember my Dad and the old guys having this same lament about the Vietnam vets not joining the legion and the VFW.

Ta dah...... here we are now with the Vietnam vets who joined the organizations in latter years after they had matured and had time to join fraternal orders complaining about us Gulf War and OIF / OEF vets not joining the organizations.

Give it a while and once folks kids are out of the house and they have time to dedicate to fraternal orders, they too will come.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Mar 18 at 2022 1:14 PM

2022-03-18T13:14:21-04:00

They blew it with me in the 70s when I was on active duty, back from 2 B-52 tours in Vietnam and told I wasn't a veteran of a foreign war. Sorry, you didn't want me then, I don't want you now!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2022 2:04 PM

2022-03-18T14:04:29-04:00

Lt. Col Charlie Brown has me blocked but I want to support her on this. Why do you guys hate female veterans is beyond my understanding? Why do you automatically assume a woman has never served? Why do you look down on them? Why are you disrespectful towards them? Why do you belittle them? Why do you see them as objects?

Now don't say you don't do this. I lived on that side of the fence for over 40 years and I know how you talk when women are not around. I saw you get happy when you learned you were going on TDY which gave you a chance to cheat on your Spouse/girlfriend.

The day the American Legion and the VFW treat Women and LGBT Veterans as EQUALS then they have a chance at survival. If not then fuckbthrmvand hopefully they go bankrupt and close their doors forever.

Every Woman and LGBT Veteran
Took the same oath.
Gave the US Government that blank check to do with them as it saw fit.

Women Served and some never came back.
LGBT members served and some never came back.
Many came back broken but not from the Enemy but by the Very People They SERVED With. Think about that for a moment guys especially those of you who were in position to stop these attacks on your fellow service members but turned a blind eye to and chose to be ignorant of what was happening.

Response by SGT Steven Wade made Mar 18 at 2022 2:09 PM

2022-03-18T14:09:13-04:00

for me personally, it doesn't hold the camaraderie it used to have and stayed more in touch by emaill, would be cool people would grill more or socialize out but i get it sometimes dont even feel like getting out of bed anymore.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Mar 18 at 2022 5:39 PM

2022-03-18T17:39:54-04:00

I stopped going to the VFW when it became an "open" club. The one here in Rapid city is just another bar on Main street. The one in Sturgis. I've gone into those clubs when there was not a Vet in sight.

Response by SSgt Mike Hogan made Mar 18 at 2022 5:55 PM

2022-03-18T17:55:00-04:00

I concur that Legion posts (at least the one I belong to) is not very welcoming of new members. I asked to assist on a committee and was told by chair that he “didn’t need anybody meddling in his work”. I tried for one other committee and was told they had enough help. Meetings seemed like high school reunion of members. After business meeting older member moved to an area to play cards. New members not invited to join in. After no change at several meeting several of the new members stopped attending.

Response by SSG Rafael R. Rodriguez Sr. made Apr 1 at 2022 10:41 AM

2022-04-01T10:41:59-04:00

I agree with you Sir! I went to a VFW Post and AL Post and spent time trying to network. Did an AAR, and found out that it's a bunch of smokers and drunks that gather to share the same old WAR stories. I was discourage to join. I was looking for a place to be welcomed as a veteran and to help out in any way I can with activities like charities, helping with Veteran programs, and assisting in other activities within the community. Have not been to a DAV Post as of yet. But I will check them out as well.

Response by MSG Dennis Lane made Apr 2 at 2022 9:33 PM

2022-04-02T21:33:28-04:00

I was in the Army in Korea in the 70s, and that made me eligible for VFW. My father, a WW II veteran, was the commander of the local VFW. I felt that the WWII guys didn't take the Vietnam Vets into their group, and certainly not those who were in Korea during peace time and didn't see combat. Now that I am retired, I am invited to the local VFW and American Legion in my town, too, but i don't find a warm welcome. If you are serious about recruiting and retaining new members, respect their service regardless of how it was carried out, and welcome them into your organization.

Response by COL Nancy Bullard made Apr 3 at 2022 11:02 AM

2022-04-03T11:02:45-04:00

The VFW to which I belong in Waco, TX, is a good one; no smoking or drinking and all business. The emphasis is on community service, Veteran/Auxilliary recognition and assistance. Everyone who qualifies is welcomed with open arms. I have found that posts are all very different. The post closest to me had a young Commander that I saw walking around with a beer in his hand and who did not welcome me or my friends. It was very smoky, the main attraction being the bar. I chose a VFW much farther away for this reason. Perhaps if more posts follow suit with a nationally coordinated standard/effort things would improve.

Response by SSgt Michael Hacker made Apr 3 at 2022 7:40 PM

2022-04-03T19:40:14-04:00

The last time I went to a VFW hall, everyone was smoking, drinking booze, playing cards, and watching sports, none of which appeals to me in the least. My life these days, 24 years post-military, is about so much more than the good ol' days of the military. I can't think of anything offhand that they'd be able to do to attract me, honestly.

Response by MSG Raymond Davis made Apr 4 at 2022 3:20 PM

2022-04-04T15:20:41-04:00

As stated below. Take action to be more friendly toward non-Vietnam veterans. I have been a member of my local American Legion for seven years and go rarely because there is the feeling they look right through you. They need to hold events showing they want you there. The South West war vet's are no where to be found. You almost never see anyone under 60.

Response by SFC Eddie Gonzales made Apr 5 at 2022 7:02 AM

2022-04-05T07:02:42-04:00

I joined the VFW to carry on the tradition and give back to veterans less fortunate. Walking in to the VFW is like walking in to a new unit as a PVT. No one likes you and everyone fucks with you, standing up for yourself and little bit of acceptance for other members points of view. (you don't have to like someone else's opinion but you have to respect it) In the end if we the new generation doesn't stand up and replace the member that are dyeing, these organizations will die.

In the end no one else understand veterans issues other than, another veteran!

Response by SrA George Gomez made Apr 5 at 2022 1:55 PM

2022-04-05T13:55:49-04:00

My biggest obstacle is I joined the Military a few years after Viet Nam ended and got out before any other conflicts so I am a totally peace time Vet. Any and all applications for either organization ask when I served or any conflicts I participated in, I have no box to check. It does not matter to me anymore after 40 yrs, I only wanted to join to hear the old guys tell their war stories anyway.

Response by 1SG Chad Mcdaniel made Apr 6 at 2022 6:38 AM

2022-04-06T06:38:52-04:00

The little town I grew up in has a VFW not an American Legion (at least not that I know of). So when I was in 7th or 8th grade (1983/1984/1985) our Junior High Football Team had an event there for whatever reason. I remember a separated area that was kind of cramped, dark and musty. I seen the bar when I went to the bathroom. The bar had older gentleman sitting around drinking and smoking. It was also dark, musty and cramped. Fast forward to 2021 (30th High School reunion a year late due to COVID). I was in side that same VFW. The room where the reunion was held was the same room we had that 7th or 8th grade Junior High Football team party in. IT LOOKED EXACTLY THE SAME! I went to the bathroom and seen the bar area. IT LOOKED EXACTLY THE SAME! Maybe even the same old guys drinking beer were there except no smoking. Funny thing is I've been in 3 VFWs my entire life (Paulding Ohio, Vanwert Ohio, and Killeen, Texas) If they wouldn't have been in different towns, I'd have sworn they were the same one. Point they all look run down, they all are dated. I know it takes money to update/repair. I know it takes members to get that money...so start welcoming new members with open arms regardless of what conflict or war they participated in. Take Veterans period, male or female. Take family members of veterans....all I would require was that the person being added as member served honorably. VFWs/American Legions you want our support then give respect to all Veterans and the family members of!

Response by SPC Jeremy Belanger made Apr 6 at 2022 9:39 PM

2022-04-06T21:39:25-04:00

My VFW is not unwelcoming, but I am maybe 1 out of 3 veterans under 70 it seems. I think it can sometimes to be hard to connect with them. But also, my uncle is a Vietnam vet and I do not feel it is hard to connect with him. I do think more out reach to Iraq/Afghanistan vets and what the organization can do for them would be useful. I think keeping up to date can be a hard part.

Response by LTC Elaine Gullotta made Apr 6 at 2022 10:54 PM

2022-04-06T22:54:55-04:00

I just joined the legion in my area. They had a monthly breakfast that I tried out. The folks were great. Planning to get more involved.

Response by LTC Elaine Gullotta made Apr 6 at 2022 11:18 PM

2022-04-06T23:18:00-04:00

Hi Robert,
I think developing new traditions would help. Just like all the restaurants now giving freebies in Veterans Day, Creating a “Bring a Buddy” event where you get members to find another veteran to bring to a Veterans Day event at the Legion would be a great start. There are lots of vets who are isolated and a few calls and an invitation (maybe even picking them up too) would go a long way to building friendships. Providing a script of what to say helps too.
I’d try to get a list of veterans in the area from somewhere. Then have the legion send a bday card with several messages inside from current members. If you don’t get any on your bday, this would mean a lot.
This generation wants to belong to organizations so it’s a matter of finding out what will attract them. Gaming competitions could be a big one and conversely Gaming Support Groups could be a draw as lots of military addicted to gaming….
Free babysitting is something younger military/vets would be attracted too also while they have dinner or a drink….maybe a drop off your kids at the legion date night or find a quality baby sitter for free via the legion list of volunteers. How about hosting grief support groups or partnering up with other groups such as WWP or The Mission Continues to share members….

Response by SGT Jeff Slomba made Apr 7 at 2022 9:11 AM

2022-04-07T09:11:51-04:00

I think that if you make it a family oriented, fun hang out spot, that is not focused on sitting at a barstool and smoking, all of the old vets that have been there for 30 years will hate it. I'm not sure you can change what is already concreted in.

It needs new leadership, new advertising, and a new agenda. It's like asking the government to change.

Response by SP5 Renee Reif made Apr 7 at 2022 2:50 PM

2022-04-07T14:50:29-04:00

1. This focus on religion is BS. There ARE "atheists in foxholes" and we are being alienated and excluded. Nonxtians are overtly excluded-Jews, Muslims, Native Americans, Pagans, Sikhs...
2. NOT all veterans are right-wing or even conservative, and we choose to avoid the extremism we see in some of these environments.
3. These locations cater to old, white males primarily, and until you decide to accept the vast diversity that is our military, and veteran population, we have no reason to go to these places.
4. These orgs focus on veterans who have combat deployments, even though most of us have contributed in significant ways; these groups invalidate our service.
5. These groups specifically EXCLUDE and/or minimize females and our contributions, still treat us like 2nd class members.
6. These groups are still not always SAFE for women, mentally, emotionally, or physically.

Response by 1stSgt Rick Ensenbach made Apr 7 at 2022 3:46 PM

2022-04-07T15:46:47-04:00

The Legion post I belong to I have been a member of for over 20 years. I joined early in my 20 year career in the Air Force. While I am a member, I rarely attend meetings because the Legion hasn’t adapted with the times. With all due respect to WWII, Korean and Vietnam veterans, the Legion is stuck in the 50s, which is why the local AMVETS chapter appealed to me. AMVET vests are more appealing to wear, the chapter has a healthy mix of old, young, male and female. As for honor guard rifles, we are in the midst of getting M16 style rifles rather than the old M1 rifles that the Legion uses. Bottom line, AMVETS appeals to the younger veterans because it’s not stuck in the old traditions.

Response by PO2 Jason Beaman made Apr 7 at 2022 3:50 PM

2022-04-07T15:50:49-04:00

Weed out the Q members would help ALOT

Response by SSG Rafael R. Rodriguez Sr. made Apr 15 at 2022 11:16 AM

2022-04-15T11:16:59-04:00

Yes there are losing members because they are not welcoming to the new era of soldiers. I agree with Maj Hoover, make it family oriented, have sponsorship to other veterans that really, actually need assistance, like food, necessities, and a hand up. Not to be confused with helping out with their own war/social buddies that take an advantage of the system. Another thing is to have a purpose, not for a smoke or drunk fest. Times have changed, alot of military veterans from all Wars, have families and like to help out with charities. How can you help out a spouse while the service member is at WAR? Can you help out a veteran with their Disability ratings? Can you give them assistance with paying their medications, or coordinate a ride to the V.A.? Alot of things we can do instead of smoking and drinking , and telling old WAR stories in the club house. Any other thoughts or ideas?

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Apr 22 at 2022 9:38 PM

2022-04-22T21:38:18-04:00

The heck of it is I am one of those older guys, and I don't always fit in because I wasn't in Nam and I don't smoke and barely drink
To make the Legion more appealing start out by NOT making the bar the center of attention. Make the place smoke free inside. And if the person is vetted by the legion quit looking at them like they are invaders and welcome them. Last couple of posts I was in they drank like fish and were not very open and welcoming

Response by SGT Barbara Wilt made Apr 27 at 2022 12:57 AM

2022-04-27T00:57:05-04:00

Because as a female it was auxiliary only and you weren't in a real war or always rude sexist remarks.

Response by PO3 Gaylord Daleen made Apr 29 at 2022 10:36 AM

2022-04-29T10:36:33-04:00

I am a viet nam Navy vet. I no longer attend meetings because of some members who put you down on the floor unless you speak in favor of their proposal. Been almost two years now and no one has ever checked on me. I have been told that unless I slogged through the bush, I should keep my mouth closed at meetings. I work with the vet court and have been told I should work with vfw members and ignore those cry babies. I can only imagine how a new vet feels about this treatment. It's only a few loudmouths but the rest of the post says nothing to them.

Response by SFC Dr. Jesus Garcia-Arce, Psy.D made May 2 at 2022 10:10 PM

2022-05-02T22:10:44-04:00

I agree with you Sir. I'm member of the American Legion and it's not easy to make then join to.

Response by SFC Rob Heyl made May 7 at 2022 12:14 AM

2022-05-07T00:14:44-04:00

I’m not into drinking and as a visitor I was told that a “real vet drinks”

Response by SGT Alan Martinez made May 17 at 2022 3:42 PM

2022-05-17T15:42:18-04:00

Directed toward the VFW, where do I begin. First off, they do no active recruiting to younger Veterans leaving the service. 2nd, They do not seem to recognize Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans as war Veterans. 3rd, They lack leadership and clear direction. 4th, they are mostly a bar that plays bingo. Nice for the old folks but they have done little to recruit their new membership and future leaders. They are stale stuck in a place in time where very few people want to revisit.

Response by SSG Brian Kerr made May 18 at 2022 3:51 PM

2022-05-18T15:51:55-04:00

I had joined the Legion at one time, but I couldn't renew it because I just couldn't afford it any longer. I only get SSDI and an very budgeted for misc expenses. :-((

~Brian Kerr

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2022 4:58 PM

2022-05-22T16:58:08-04:00

Last time I went to a VFW (2015)? there were many people smoking cigarettes inside. WTF?? I left after 3 minutes.

Response by SMSgt John Windham made May 26 at 2022 11:39 AM

2022-05-26T11:39:47-04:00

What is socially acceptable to Boomers doesn’t jive with new folks. If you are progressive, forget about it

Response by SSG Paul Wingerter made May 26 at 2022 11:49 AM

2022-05-26T11:49:40-04:00

The Two VFW's I was associated with i.e. one in North Carolina and the other in Missouri unfortunately had too many alcoholics who when tanked up had a tendency to lash out and cause disturbances which were condoned by the VFW staff. It was not my idea of a welcoming place and not what I had expected! After one incident from a Vietnam Veteran who thought he would rip me apart about my service and after I had to let him know I would not take it I left the VFW and haven't been back since. He cussed me out and the staff just stood there . I had done nothing to him and when I let him have it the staff became offended i.e. with me ! No thanks!

Response by CDR Mark Harvey made May 26 at 2022 12:06 PM

2022-05-26T12:06:53-04:00

I am a life member of the American Legion. I joined via mail while on active duty basically because my son was involved in the pellet shooting program. I went to a couple of events but could not really get involved because of kids and work. I was turned off by the amount of drinking at many events such that I would not take my family.
After retiring, I moved to Chapin SC area and saw the Legion was involved in the community so my wife (a vet) and I joined Post 193. We have been active now for 3yrs. Female vets make up few of our members but include three of the post officers.
The post is very well known and respected in the community. We have been growing those 3 yrs and are in the middle of a building campaign. We do the traditional bingo night that is well attended by the community, mostly older folks. We have a veteran only breakfast Monday morning that all vets are welcome. Memorial Day we partnered with the town to do a memorial service and reception at town hall. The last few years have been well attended.
We appear family friendly in our activities but there are places we can improve. The current small building we occupy limits expanding activities. We now have a Pavillion on the property where our new building will go. That will give us room to plan family events in the near term.
Here is the Mission of the Legion: "The American Legion was chartered and incorporated by Congress in 1919 as a patriotic veterans organization devoted to mutual helpfulness. It is the nationâs largest wartime veterans service organization, committed to mentoring youth and sponsorship of wholesome programs in our communities, advocating patriotism and honor, promoting strong national security, and continued devotion to our fellow servicemembers and veterans." Most of the encouraging comments I've seen on this post fit within this mission.

BTW, I was just elected Post Commander so now I have the ability to expand on our good name. I appreciate any constructive comments to help me take or Mission and turn it into a vision for supporting Veterans, families, and the community.

Response by CDR Mark Harvey made May 26 at 2022 12:14 PM

2022-05-26T12:14:26-04:00

I forgot to address the VFW. I attempted to join in 2000 time frame and was told membership was restricted to those served in a war zone. I didn't pursue membership because I served during conflict received three expeditionary medals, but never fired a shot from my submarine in any conflict. My interpretation of the requirements. There was one VFW that I was interested in joining but they were more than a town away in a direction I didn't go often.

Response by SFC Barbara Layman made May 26 at 2022 4:27 PM

2022-05-26T16:27:27-04:00

I was an active member of an American Legion post for about 3 years. Prior to my participation, the organization didn't seem to be doing much other than looking for 'contributions' to pay the bills. They owned their building yet were all but invisible in the community. No participation in local Memorial Day or Veteran's Day activities.
'We' opened up and began holding dances at Valentine's Day, St Patrick's Day and adding other activities to contribute to the community.
My participation stopped when during the course of clean-up after one of those functions, the question was asked by one of the Legion Auxiliary members "Whose dog tags is she wearing?" Directed at me. When advised by a Legion member that they were MY Dog Tags, that I am Retired Army, she challenged whether that was accurate and asserted that rather than being a Legion member, I should rightly be a member of the Auxiliary.

I finished the clean-up-, took my toys and went home never to return. Eventually they ceased operation as the building was lost in a fire and their members eventually died off.

Response by SrA Gina Hotard made May 26 at 2022 4:29 PM

2022-05-26T16:29:35-04:00

Also, if you’re a female combat vet !!

Response by SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA made May 26 at 2022 10:10 PM

2022-05-26T22:10:11-04:00

I served active duty in the Marines 1985 - 2005, deploying to Kuwait/Iraq as part of 1st Light Armored Reconnaissance (LAR) Bn, 1st Marine Division in 2003. I’m a life MCL, DAV and VFW member. I’ve belonged to a VFW post in Chesterfield VA, and now Kenosha WI. I’ve belonged to a MCL post in Richmond VA, Harrisonburg VA, Louisville KY and now Kenosha WI. I initially joined these organizations when I retired from active duty in 2005, when I was 38-39 years old. I am now 55 1/2 years old. I have never been shunned ignored or had any hostilities with anyone, in any of these posts. Hell, the Chesterfield Post was so happy to see me I became a Junior Vice in my first few meetings. The same happened in Harrisonburg. The best of these organizations was the KY MCL (1st), Richmond VA MCL and Kenosha WI VFW tied (2nd), and Harrisonburg VA MCL and Kenosha WI MCL tied (4th). I rank them according to inviting, unity, engagement. In these organizations since 2005, I have mainly Vietnam Vets, then Iraq/Afghanistan Vets, then a few Korean and maybe a couple WWII vets. Now, I’m an introvert type person, and with my PTSD, and can even do better without people all together, but, I can have great conversations when engaged, and I’ve never had any issues with anyone. Now, you may say well, you’re 55. Yes, I am, but, I look much younger, so many could take me for having just retired, even though it’s been almost 17 years ago this August 31st. On a positive for me, I have managed my 17 years since leaving active duty, and in so, have communicated with all levels and all ages, which makes it easier to interact with older Vets. I look up to them and what they’ve done and been through and use each conversation to learn something from them. With younger folks, I do the same, as well as look for teaching or coaching them on something in a conversational kind of way.

Response by SPC Fred Taber made May 27 at 2022 12:31 PM

2022-05-27T12:31:47-04:00

It is ironic when Vietnam vets act out against current Desert Storm and OEF vets. Since a lot of VFWs didn't welcome them when they got out. However, I think a lot of this depends on where you are. As a VFW member for the last 4 years and having served as Service Officer, Jr Vice Commander and Sr Vice Commander I see a lot of younger vets aren't going for the same reason I didn't. It's a lot of old people that like things just the way they are and do not want it to change. Also many younger vets are starting families or are in the middle of raising a family so that takes up a lot of time. Plus there is the fact that sometimes you just don't want to remember shit and going in a VFW can bring back a lot of bad memories.
The only way the VFW will change is if younger members do join and become officers and commanders and push for change. It has worked at our post and those older vets that do not want change.... they bitch a little but in the end, they accept it. The change is for the better and to make the entire place better for everyone. For the vets and for the community.

Response by PO3 Jake Lucid made May 27 at 2022 4:30 PM

2022-05-27T16:30:13-04:00

I was a part of 2 legions. I'm coast guard pre and post 9/11. I walked away from both. The VFW was full of the "younger" vets like me but the anti terror missions I had kept me stateside. So I didn't qualify for the vfw...leaving me with the legions. What I found was a closed off...good old boys club. They had all grown up served with and live together their whole lives and were less than welcoming of new members unless it was time to wash dishes for the fish fry.
The activities in both legions were solely based on smoking drinking and playing cards.
I did neither of the three...so...I found other places to be.

Response by SP5 Roy Sonye made May 28 at 2022 12:18 AM

2022-05-28T00:18:15-04:00

The American legion post I know would welcome any veteran and has many community projects

Response by SGT Jeff Everhart made May 28 at 2022 4:11 AM

2022-05-28T04:11:52-04:00

Great point, the best organisation I've been involved with is the WWP.

Response by PV2 Duane Schlender made May 28 at 2022 9:01 PM

2022-05-28T21:01:18-04:00

Less politics.
Less political backstabbing of veterans.
Easier use of services.
Treating all veterans equally.
LESS political crap (did I say that already?)
A feeling of being valued, and not being ignored.

Far too often in todays world, Veterans are met with suspicion and scorn based on how much they did in the service, vs serving honorably and being discharged with good merits. On top of that, Stolen Valor seems to be a core way to discredit people, regardless of why (minus real stolen valor). Then, you have the treatment of actual veterans by these organizations. They SEEMINGLY (i said seem, not do) treat veterans as if they are a pawn for promotion, profit, press, or some other gain. If you are not a gauranteed promotion and medal from the president for your work, it seems as if these organizations shrug off veterans and walk away.

I have been a victim of this by the D.A.V. AND the VFW. I am not a combat veteran. However, I did serve for a limited time, and left with an honorable discharge. I should not be treated like a leper (nor should any real veteran with a good discharge). Example given : It took me 21 years to get my butt in order, and 2 prison sentences after leaving the military with significant personal issues. How did I get help? I didn't. I was not important enough to help. I had to do all of my own work. And when I reached out for help, organizations basically just shrugged me off and passed me to someone else.

Treat us the way we deserve, or get out of the damned way.

Response by LT Alex Corsi made May 29 at 2022 2:30 PM

2022-05-29T14:30:59-04:00

Hi Major,
Simply better meeting times. I joined the local VFW years ago but haven't been to more than a handful of meetings. I am sincerely interested to participate but 10 am on Tuesdays are not ideal.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2022 2:51 PM

2022-05-29T14:51:00-04:00

For a start - Make them "No Smoking", one shouldn't get lung cancer from sitting at the bar for an hour!

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made May 29 at 2022 4:47 PM

2022-05-29T16:47:43-04:00

Actually I was approached by both the American Legion and the VFW to try and recruit Me. I was already a member of the AMVETS but did join the Legion. The Legion actually threw a full free dinner at the post and invited Vietnam Veteran's from town that weren't members yet. I had no objection to the VFW but was also already a Life Member of the Air Force Association, the Air Force Sergeant's Association and the Air Force Security Police Association. Just how many things can You belong to ? Our Legion Post has attempted to recruit Younger Veteran's from the Persian Gulf War and other more recent wars, got some but no where near the number We want. These Younger Veteran's of today largely aren't joining and We need they to take over and carry on. Our Legion Post will even pay the dues for any resident of Town that is still on active duty and wants to join and continue to pay His dues during His or Her entire time they remain on active duty. Our Legion Post also sponsors many things in the Community including Boy Scouts and Girls Scout both of which also meet at our post free of change.

Response by SSG Bob Robertson made May 30 at 2022 8:40 AM

2022-05-30T08:40:00-04:00

Not so many alcoholics setting around in them.

Response by SSG Brian Pearce made May 30 at 2022 9:23 AM

2022-05-30T09:23:34-04:00

Being a life member of the VFW and having been active in several posts I was turned off by the unwillingness to follow by laws they set, let alone National by laws. They say in meetings they want new blood to come in but as soon as a new guy comes in with modern ideas he’s ostracized.

The Legion is full of angry old guys who are mad because they aren’t you and at the same time because you ain’t them.

Response by CN Samuel Bohannon made May 30 at 2022 11:47 AM

2022-05-30T11:47:54-04:00

I agree,let me know too.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2022 12:20 PM

2022-05-30T12:20:54-04:00

In all honesty, these organizations are becoming antiquated and irrelevant in the society of today. Also, there are limited to zero real benefits of membership within these organizations. Unfortunately, the older generation is dying off; however, with out the welcoming of fresh blood, these organizations will not last. Both my Father and Grandfather (on my Mother's side) are / were members of both and have mentioned the decline over the years.

Response by SGT Joseph Yost made May 30 at 2022 3:30 PM

2022-05-30T15:30:17-04:00

I am a life member of both but go to either.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2022 4:28 PM

2022-05-30T16:28:55-04:00

When it comes to the VFW, I have run into the “you don’t know what a real war like Nam was to real infantry soldiers.” It took every ounce of control to not put his teeth down his throat. Of course my First Gulf War, East Africa Ops, 2 1/2 years in Baghdad, and my one year in Afghanistan meant nothing. VFW, go pound sand.

American Legion, no way, no how. I have given the local legion 3 tries. Each time I had multiple individuals say “ the Army wanted me to become an officer, but I turned them down.” If I wanted to pay dues to an organization full of alcoholics and blow hards, I would be a Shriner. At least they do something worthwhile.

Response by SFC Larry Triplett made May 30 at 2022 4:57 PM

2022-05-30T16:57:39-04:00

Take away the Old Boys Club

Response by SSG(P) D. Wright Downs made May 30 at 2022 7:04 PM

2022-05-30T19:04:27-04:00

I am a member of the American Legion because I served during Granada. I like my Post and the member there. The accept women veterans with open arms although there have been some Posts that would not even acknowledge me 20+ years ago. My post does a lot for the community and the members.
As for the VFW, I am not eligible although I would have been had I spent 30 days in Berlin with my cousin or brother TDY when they were there. I could have hung out with my cousin in his office learning what it was like there since we had the same MOS and he had more stripes than I did. A bit of training and it would have floated and I would have been eligible for the VFW.
However, no way would I have ever wanted to join the VFW. It sucks. I remember when I saw VN vets being belittled by their family members and WWII vets who were members about not being real Soldiers, Marens, etc. Being told that VN was not a WAR. One young man was told he didn’t belong in the VFW and his service didn’t count…the young man had lost an eye, an ear and an arm. The VN vets, many barely 21 were called crybabies and other things by the WWII vets. I got rediculed when I was tending bar and bought a young returning VN vet a Welcome Home drink.
When the VFW realized it was going to die out, it opened its doors to the VN vets. The old vets had to do something so they swallowed their pride and let the crybaby VN vets in. Now, in some Posts the VN vets have adopted the WWII attitudes and have to let the young vets in in order to keep their precious posts running. It is a shame they have that attitude. I still have a bad taste in my heart about the VFW. My brother is 9 years younger than me and he joined on his Berlin service on his DD414. He likes his post. I won’t give any post my money or the time of day. Perhaps it was the fact they were in a bar and the beer speaking those many years ago. I don’t think so.

Response by SFC Lyle Green made May 31 at 2022 2:37 PM

2022-05-31T14:37:40-04:00

‘I must confess my mixed attitudes or opinions of many of these Veterans organizations are or more accurately put, very possible of my own makings. Many Veterans (some of who have been mentioned as a negative factor withing Vet. Org.) more than likely most have had similar experiences and developed attitudes as I did or have. Due to my assigned duties (MOS) in Vietnam, plus consequently being attached to an Infantry Division, created IMO enemies on both sides of the (fence) conflict. Members of my squad and others being of like designation were about the only ones I could, at the time, refer to as “brothers in arms”. In fact, myself and the others like me had almost as many injuries, beaten, stabbed, clubbed assaulted with firearms by U.S. personal as we received from our common enemy, Charlie. All Chuck ever did was shot, blow us up or kill us. But, Forbidden or at our own peril, to never entered some infantry unit club, common club or beer garden, or any open gathering, even the coveted & rare cook outs with stakes, free beer, entertainment etc. If we were recognized even without rank or ID designation on our fatigues, then more than likely all hell broke loose. Not whining or trying to gain the “PLOM” (poor little ole me) sentiment, it was what it was. Accepted and dealt with as a reality, in some instances their actions were maybe justified, not judging. Mainly our only recourse was to dwell within or with our own kind as much as possible. Was difficult to do when away from one of the base camps. To have assignments that required stays at RONs, FSBs, or some units rally areas was precarious at best. While on perimeter guard at a FSB, during a ground attack, our APC was pinged a couple of times from the rear. My point is the mental attitude of isolation, rejection and constant awareness around others of our forces was very evident when I returned home. Not to mention the having to deal with stench of the public attitudes or perceptions of us “horrible old baby killers” even from my own siblings and relatives. A few years after I come home a friend of mine, a Navy veteran, invited wife and I to attend a VFW Bingo party. It was OK, lots of fine folks, very friendly and nothing was brought up to ridicule or condemn Vietnam or its Veterans. I joined and never had any bad incidents or encounters about who done what or where, despite my attitude of distance and reluctance to “be one of the guys”. Having to fight within myself the “ole bones” of my Vietnam experience coupled with added perceptions that I was a freak or some sub-human being that society had declared I/we were. I begin to run from the situation, state to state, town to town looking for who knows what, I visited several of the veterans org. Never allowing myself to be part of any, I would always get that feeling of rejection due to something being wrong with me, in turn blaming the organization for being snub, stuck up, clannish, etc. resulting a few times in physical un-pleasantness. Which I was and am not proud of. Short version of this novel, moving ahead some 40 years. Returning TX , life member of the VFW, AL, Purple Heart Society, DAV, I find that much has changed over the years. I have gained the ability and skill to combat and beat off much of my old feelings and attitudes, not removed but have lessened their intensity. There are many Veterans just like me out there. Attending the meeting of especially the VFW and AL, I still have the loss of the deserved sensitivity for many of these new age veterans. As they talk or tell the tales of their experiences, I sit there with thoughts of VN and say to myself, “you ain’t seen shit” “that’s a crock of shit” “ wished I’d had you back in the day, I’d show you blab la blab la”. I’d introduce myself to the gate keeper and in my minds eye, I would see a desk dude with the attitude of Heap big Warrior, large and in charge of the card checking. Logically and actually, these are all good folks, having served honorably and rightfully proud, the problem is within me. I would imagine to younger vets I am a snob, stuck up, arrogant, thinking I was Sgt. York or some other heap big warrior. I assure you that is not true. The most important point I must make is, all new Veterans have patients with the older vets. Don’t give up and make decisions hastily that these Organizations are not for you, or all the Vets there are not what you expected or hoped for. Try to find out what era these farts were involved in and make some questions about their experiences. Don’t come on so strong with what you did or where were. I hope me explaining my situations and how, why I feel and reacted can help to create a comradery with all veterans. The times are sadly creating a barrier between all of our citizens with differences, Veterans are and always will be a distinct class of people. Patriots, givers, ready to do what is necessary to preserve and prosper in the Unique Status you have so rightly earned and deserve.

Response by PO1 Kerry Morton made May 31 at 2022 3:57 PM

2022-05-31T15:57:17-04:00

When I get told I'm not a real veteran because I didn't serve in the Nam, I apologize for my parents having to late to go there and look them right square in the eye and tell them I went to Beirut, Lebanon twice, once in 1976 and again in 1983/4 and was there when the barracks got blown up. I was in Desert Storm and my ship The USS Tripoli LPH-10 hit a moored mine and put a 20' x 30' hole in our bow and cracked our keel. And I was on the initial invasion force for Operation Restore Hope in Somalia. Then I say if that's not good enough for you I'm also Retired/100% disabled Navy so if you don't call that a real veteran you can suck my johnson

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2022 11:18 PM

2022-05-31T23:18:37-04:00

Honestly, if their Posts responded to e-mails. I have contacted 2 posts here in northern Alabama since retired and gotten back dead air.

Response by SSgt Robert Mesic made Jun 1 at 2022 8:53 AM

2022-06-01T08:53:49-04:00

Any organization of veterans no matter where you served should have respect for other veterans if they don’t eventually they will end up closing the doors this needs to happen the older veterans are not going to be around forever my dad was a lifetime member of American legion and the vfw in ohio in all of my years I have never heard of such things happening when I would go on leave to these places with my dad I was treated with the utmost dignity possible

Response by SSgt Courtnee Buttles made Jun 1 at 2022 4:49 PM

2022-06-01T16:49:07-04:00

It's simply not a welcoming environment. More so I am a 31 year old female and I have no interest in spending my free time with a group of men who (I fear) will minimize what I have contributed and experienced. Despite serving in AFSOC with 2 deployments, the culture from my experience has been very sexist. I don't need to continure to hear that "you only deployed/ you only promoted/ blah, blah, blah because you're a female".

I'll take a hard pass for now.

Response by LCpl Nathan Witter made Jun 2 at 2022 3:38 AM

2022-06-02T03:38:26-04:00

1.Cut the religious crap. These organizations are supposed to help all vets, not just the ones who follow your subset of religion.
2. Cut the asskissing of politicians. I don't care that you don't like <insert whoever here>, vets come in all political affiliations (Democrat, Republican, whatthefuckever) and the smack talking of certain subsets puts people off.

Response by Sgt Greg Bennett made Jun 2 at 2022 2:49 PM

2022-06-02T14:49:51-04:00

I joined the American Legion, day one out of service. WW2 vets some did not treat Vietnam vets as equals calling Vietnam and Korean War both police actions and one WW2 women vet said what did the Vietnam girls do for their country, WW2 women were POW’s in Philippines. Unfortunately Vietnam vets have become the same way. My Legion Post is seen as a corrupt bar, unwilling to help younger vets or even theNational Guard Family Readiness Group. Racism towards Mayor, who is a retired decorated colonel. And crazy veteran molesting VA nurses, leads the way.

Response by SSG Ronnie Olivas made Jun 2 at 2022 5:10 PM

2022-06-02T17:10:23-04:00

I remember I went to American legion and asked for help with my claim they assigned me someone and he was drinking while doing my paperwork I had to re do my claim and we needed help we had our power shut off I asked for help they didn't help I was a member after that I left them alone

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Jun 2 at 2022 6:04 PM

2022-06-02T18:04:34-04:00

The few, very few VFW posts I have visited have been populated more by non vets than vets. They seem to be operating as a local bar rather than a meeting and social gathering place for veterans. I have seen questionable fundraising activities, one was for my own stepdaughter’s husband, where the proceeds went to someone totally different Than to support her husband who was in a vegetative state. The money did not go to my stepdaughter, her kids, or to help pay for medical bills. It just disappeared. The only possible way I would get involved with either organizations locally is if the entire leadership was replaced

Response by SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall made Jun 20 at 2022 8:53 AM

2022-06-20T08:53:28-04:00

My father told me when I was young he hoped I’d never be able to join the VFW. Was brought up around VFW American Legions and on the whole have always loved it. As with any group there are always the butt heads who think they speak for the whole group. It’s not the case. I can not believe that in today’s mind set that one person being a jerk would let another form an opinion good or bad about such a situation. Just my thoughts.

Response by MSgt George Fillgrove made Jun 21 at 2022 9:11 AM

2022-06-21T09:11:21-04:00

Stop being just a bar and be more inclusive to all veterans. These groups change the eligibility criteria because their memberships are declining, but they still are not inclusive to all veterans by practice.

Response by SPC Bob Mesna made Jun 22 at 2022 9:39 PM

2022-06-22T21:39:22-04:00

My WWII dad was in both Legion and VFW. He suggested I should join. I am not interested when the highlight of these organization is "The Bar". Also, do not have much interest in war stories. It has been about 50 years since VN and no one gave a shi$ then, and no one does now. If either of the Legion or VFW did something greatly useful that would mingle in the community, I would have been interested. (Have you ever been in these organizations windowless buildings? It is depressing! The disgusting smoke yellow stain on ceiling tiles and walls is also enough to make anyone leave. Not for me.

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Jun 28 at 2022 9:35 AM

2022-06-28T09:35:20-04:00

I became a “Life Member” of the VFW in 93. Haven’t been inside a VFW hall since 2000. Sad, aint it?

Response by SPC Charles Aguero made Jun 30 at 2022 8:33 PM

2022-06-30T20:33:20-04:00

No Smoking

Response by SGT M Edilson made Jul 1 at 2022 9:12 AM

2022-07-01T09:12:59-04:00

I just joined as lifetime member for VFW and DAV tried to join Lifetime member at American legion it's way too expensive, so set up yearly membership for auto pay. I never go just a member just in case I get bored and want to go later on.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Jul 1 at 2022 6:48 PM

2022-07-01T18:48:29-04:00

Closure is a good recommendation. According to the the VFW, the last conflict that counted as a war was World War II. If true, that the rolls are dying out and closure is the best answer.

Response by Sgt Greg White made Jul 1 at 2022 9:48 PM

2022-07-01T21:48:24-04:00

My local VFW post is very welcoming to me even though i can't join because I never served outside the US technically. I am a USCG and USAF veteran.
But my local AL Post is a "insiders club". Sure you can pay for a drink there, but you'll never hold any leadership position if your not related to any current leaders !!! I quit after my first year.
Also the National AL and local post are very Nazi like with all emphasis put not on Americanism but on America First and pro Trump (would be Nazi Fuhrer). Being a Patriot and being a Nazi are 2 different things.
My local post and all over the state they do not do anything like help the local VA, or sponsor a little league team (let alone have their own league like my hometown did). Help in time of emergency like fire or flooding. assist any charity (other than themselves).
I'll stick with supporting my local VFW even if I can't be an actual member

Response by SFC Alberto Estrella made Jul 2 at 2022 4:42 AM

2022-07-02T04:42:51-04:00

I have been a member of both organizations and have not had an unwelcoming experience by either. In any event there are so many organizations for veterans or even for those that are not. If any organization were to reject me for not fulfilling their criteria then so what it just means its not for me, i am not going to waste my time or thoughts on it. I am just fine with or without.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jul 2 at 2022 12:32 PM

2022-07-02T12:32:36-04:00

I have had great luck if you will with the VFW and became a lifetime member while still on active duty having qualified seven times, well more if you count the new data. Anyway, Fort Campbell was very welcoming to the tune that we stopped in there on the way home from flying to grab a pitcher of beer for the crew in uniform, the post had a card entry so we could not be found out in uniform. The post let our active duty unit rent and use the post for lots of events like hail and farewells. Fast forward to Harker Heights at Fort Hood, we were included as an active duty unit, invited to all the BBQ and events, which we did. When we returned home from deployment, we held our post deployment party there with now 250 possible new members.

Now I reside in Enterprise, we are a family oriented place, no pub or cantina as it is referred in bylaws. It is service oriented for the community for flag ceremonies, events downtown and with the military affairs council. The only drawback is politics and feelings getting hurt at post where folks feel priviledged and that runs off new folks. I think as folks get older and the post clean up, that members will come, however it is just not these post that are in trouble, all our professional organizations are down, AUSA, AAAA, and many more are really lacking participation and membership.

Response by Cpl David Miller made Jul 2 at 2022 2:00 PM

2022-07-02T14:00:38-04:00

Vietnam Vets were treated the same way when they returned home. The VFW was especially harsh with us "baby killers". Am. Legion not quite so bad. I found that the Marine Corps Association was much more welcoming.

Response by Cpl John Mathews made Jul 4 at 2022 12:42 AM

2022-07-04T00:42:55-04:00

Here’s the problem for me. I don’t drink or smoke and I don’t gamble. Yeah, I know I am pretty boring. The age difference is one issue, but in addition, there just isn’t anything for me and my wife to do there. The Posts I have been to around my home are so politically and socially conservative (the comments I heard about President and Mrs. Obama were scary), that it is off-putting. Very few minority members too. I wish there was a Marine Corps League post nearby, as I would like to try that.

Response by Maj Gail Lofdahl made Jul 4 at 2022 2:05 AM

2022-07-04T02:05:21-04:00

When I retired from the AF in 1995, the VFW sent me mailers all but begging me to join, claiming that my Korean service qualified me for VFW membership. But when I called up the local VFW post, I was told that I wasn't eligible (wait for it) because I hadn't served in the "real" Korean War. (I asked them when the truce had been signed, but that went over their heads.) BUT I COULD JOIN THE WOMEN'S AUXILIARY!
I thought about filing a complaint with National, but decided that there were just too many good organizations out there that WANTED me to join them, so why bother with these losers? So when the VFW complains that they're losing membership, all I can say is that if they keep giving prospective members the "bum's rush," they'll get what they deserve.
BTW, I'd frequented American Legion Post 435 since childhood (our neighbor was a vet), so I joined them instead and have always been made welcome. It's a totally different atmosphere. Too bad it's in my home town and not where I live, so I don't get there often. But one of our local VFWs folded and the other is clear on the other side of town, so I'd never use it. I just continue to support my hometown American Legion.

Response by CPO Kathleen Whiting made Jul 5 at 2022 12:41 AM

2022-07-05T00:41:29-04:00

We live in Florida. The American Legion and VFW posts appear to be rundown physically in most cities, and there is not a lot to attract people to them. They allow smoking and and that makes many people decide not to enter. I have visited both the Legion and VFW in Northern and Midwestern states, and their appearance and behavior are 180 out from the ones I've seen here. They are the places where people celebrate their 25th - or 50th! - wedding anniversary. They have the best new Year's Eve Celebrations in town. This is where people schedule their daughter's wedding reception. There is such pride in the members from all time frames , there are Veterans who specialize in horticulture who keep the entry in tip top shape. Auxiliary members who do decor and design work to make the dining room a beautiful place. The bar is not the big money maker, although it contributes significantly They decorate for every season of the year and for the holidays. The Marine Corps Ball and Navy Birthday are stellar events. My brother-in-law was Commander of his Legion in Minnesota and they had requests from members of the community all the time to be included as guests for special events. How great would it be for people to prefer celebrating with Veterans and their friends and families at facilities they are proud of instead of even the nicest Country Club.

Response by A1C Joy Ross made Jul 5 at 2022 1:39 PM

2022-07-05T13:39:48-04:00

I have found my local American Legion post to be very unwelcoming. If you are not a Vietnam Marine veteran, you are shunned. I understand the people who actually made it a very hostile environment have left. I’m still reluctant to go back because I’m not all that sure about the remaining members that made things so hostile.

Response by A1C Pamela G Russell made Jul 5 at 2022 8:34 PM

2022-07-05T20:34:51-04:00

On my 3rd AL membership. The 1st one, we lost the land to a city zoo. The 2nd one was too far away and the 3rd one, I have visited about. 3 times over the last 4-5 years. They recently sent me an offer for a lifetime membership for $600.00. If I had that much extra funds, I would not buy a membership. Plus , they put a 2 week time limit on all their offers.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Moody made Jul 8 at 2022 2:13 AM

2022-07-08T02:13:48-04:00

I used to belong to the Marine Corps League and would have to drive home law enforcement Officers, who were carrying fire arms, back to their homes as they got so drunk.. Had enough of that. Also came the guilt of. having to keep secrets. It is a felony in the state in which this occurred, for even a Police Officer to posse a firearm while partaking of alcohol...

Response by PFC Phillip Jones made Jul 8 at 2022 8:33 AM

2022-07-08T08:33:10-04:00

I’m not gonna lie. I joined the American Legion because I want to support their work, and while my post is very tight knit with a great commander who cares for the Legionnaires, there is a certain air of “No GWOT-era veterans allowed” among some members. A younger member base (25-45ish) would help me feel like I was among peers more often.

Response by 1SG Tom Johnson made Jul 8 at 2022 3:57 PM

2022-07-08T15:57:49-04:00

I know that in our VFW post 10010 that we do not have that problem, nor have I seen it any where in our State. (Montana)

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2022 5:26 PM

2022-07-10T17:26:14-04:00

Sounds like sh*t organizations if they're dismissive and exclusionary. It likely not end well if some old coot told discounted my service after 24 years of sacrificing and putting in the work. Not really conducive to expanding membership by crapping on new members. Perhaps they need to die out.

Response by Maj Irma Groot made Jul 10 at 2022 7:26 PM

2022-07-10T19:26:37-04:00

The American Legion post I belonged to was a playhouse and run by SAL (a group of partying 4-5 people). No one did anything about them and they were disrespectful to me and another legion member. I reported it and nothing was done. The inmates are running the asylum and I now belong to a good post that doesn’t steal or misuse funds

Response by COL Shirley Martin made Jul 20 at 2022 5:03 PM

2022-07-20T17:03:34-04:00

At the VFW post I belong to many members want to make the meeting into a political debate. Even as a veteran we should be committed to our oath and A-political status. It is hard to build comradery and contribute to the community and the members when the setting is hostile and unproductive

Response by A1C Pamela G Russell made Jul 21 at 2022 7:52 PM

2022-07-21T19:52:32-04:00

I also know that the SAL( Sons of Am Legion)operate a lot of the events. It does not matter to me as long as the membership numbers rise. IMHO, I think the AL has some really great dis counted benefits, but they spend a lot on mailings that could be used for other programs.

Response by A1C Pamela G Russell made Jul 21 at 2022 8:07 PM

2022-07-21T20:07:37-04:00

Thank you for the up vote Maj Robert Hoover

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Jul 27 at 2022 7:58 PM

2022-07-27T19:58:53-04:00

I agree with you 100% The elders are set in their ways (regardless of prior military or not) and as accepting to younger recruits. I think that both organizations should accept all instead of having certain requirements. Not all get deployed. For whatever reason. To me, it doesn't make you less of Soldier, Sailor, or Marine. But in some if not most if you didn't serve across the Pacific or across the Atlantic or across any open sea then you ain't. In reality it's the wrong thinking. By allowing former and or current military in, we can work and become one. Maybe having just 1 price for both organizations might help. Maybe have more programs out there. Theres no sure answer. Simply put try a survey and see what needs to be improved or how to get new members. I know for me I would go to meetings and be more social in the local American Legion vs just paying my dues for the state I live in at the main headquarters

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Aug 5 at 2022 12:52 PM

2022-08-05T12:52:46-04:00

Why bother?

Response by CW3 Christopher V. made Aug 5 at 2022 6:47 PM

2022-08-05T18:47:58-04:00

It’s funny that the Vietnam vets were treated poorly by the guys from WWII and Korea, now they do the same to the younger guys. I say join. I’m a member of both. We need to take the ball forward. Not everyone is hostile towards us.

Response by PO2 Rob Waldrop made Aug 5 at 2022 6:52 PM

2022-08-05T18:52:00-04:00

I have to echo this with some additional comments. I was a member in North Carolina, and also a Scout leader with the troop the legion post sponsored. However, the legion member who became the liaison with the Scouts decided during the transition between Scoutmasters that the Scout units were going to basically answer to his whims, and when we pushed back he became more and more belligerent to the point that the program suffered at the post, and an overwhelming number of youth left to form a new unit elsewhere. My son was verbally attacked during a Board of Review for rank by this individual, and when I backed my son and the troop leaders that disagreed with his conduct, he became belligerent and threatening towards me as well. I found that the unit had a clique of older members, and the "Sons", and if you were not part of that clique you were not part of the post except as a source of money. I transferred to at-large status under the state post, and when the membership lapsed I did not renew, even though I had moved from North Carolina to Fort Myers, FL. The whole experience left a bitter taste in my mouth, especially when that same individual wound up as post commander and made no secret of the fact that he felt anyone who disagreed with him on anything needed to exit the post and seek membership elsewhere.

Response by PO2 Rob Waldrop made Aug 5 at 2022 7:00 PM

2022-08-05T19:00:09-04:00

I actually was a member with a post in North Carolina. I was also a Scout leader in the troop sponsored by the post. However, one of the "clique" members got appointed as the liaison between the post and the Scouting program, and while the Scout program was focused on being youth-led, he refused to acknowledge this. He became more and more abusive towards the troop adult leadership, blustering and threatening to the point that the local Scout Council knew he was not to be trusted, he attacked my son verbally during a Board of Review for rank to the point that my son walked out of the meeting and waited outside in the dark for my wife to pick him up. This same person tried to pick a new Scoutmaster during a transition period, without input from the troop committee, and when told he didn't decide the issue, he threatened to have the post drop the program. I had already transferred to Member-At-Large under the state post, and an overwhelming number of the older youth had transferred out of the troop and formed a new unit elsewhere. Once this individual managed to get himself elected post commander, I decided the American Legion was all about being part of the "inner circle" or else you're just a source for donations.

Response by SFC Glenn Boyer made Aug 7 at 2022 11:47 AM

2022-08-07T11:47:12-04:00

Our service organizations provoke a great service to our veterans . They have service officers that guide your through the disability process. They offer counseling. They provide funds and commodities to those in need. Without them the veteran would be forgotten and our benefits g’reatly diminished. There is strength in numbers and our strength insures our benefits are not taken away. I too felt shunned by WWII veterans when I came home. The only way change can become reality is through participation.

Response by Cpl Chad Baumes made Aug 7 at 2022 4:22 PM

2022-08-07T16:22:41-04:00

Our battles don't rate

Response by SPC Mario Moreno made Aug 7 at 2022 11:33 PM

2022-08-07T23:33:05-04:00

I really don’t have any ideas I myself join the American legion for a year and sat by myself most of the time. I saw other men come for a visit and everyone was all over them so I left

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2022 11:49 PM

2022-08-07T23:49:42-04:00

Today's vets are not Gen X nor Boomers. Those generations were taught bars are where the guys hang to get away from people. Millenials are more geared towards outdoors, community oriented etc. Every VFW I've been too is a dark indoor, smoky, musty place full of unrelateable WW2, Vietnam, and Gulf War pics, old disgruntled ladies serving bud light and only open weekdays from 2-5pm.

Never once seen an IPA served, outdoor deck and fake turf grass, a dog's allowed sign, axe throwing, nor a poster of Generation Kill.

Until then, millenial vets will probably continue finding local brewpubs, house parties, and dog parks to be just as great place to go out and meet with vets.

Response by SFC Howard Holmes made Aug 8 at 2022 2:11 AM

2022-08-08T02:11:51-04:00

Several years ago I joined the American Legion for one year. Several times a week I received mailings asking for donations. I never received anything advising about who I can contact if I need assistance, what assistance the American Legion offers or how I can help other veterans, it was about donating more money. Now for a brief history that very few people know. The original commander of the American Legion, and is considered founder is none other than British Brigadier General Benedict Arnold. Yes, the same Benedict Arnold that double crossed George Washington. The American Legion was actually a Calvary and Infantry British unit.

Response by PO2 Nick Burke made Aug 8 at 2022 8:44 AM

2022-08-08T08:44:19-04:00

I already belong to both.

Response by Sgt Richard Winslow made Aug 8 at 2022 10:25 AM

2022-08-08T10:25:11-04:00

Stop asking for $$ from THIS Veteran and offer something to help. All my local Legion wanted was to make sure they sent my dues renewal letter. I went to one meeting, first one, and was acknowledged, but ignored. Stuffed shirts.

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Aug 8 at 2022 11:34 AM

2022-08-08T11:34:33-04:00

I have been a member of Legion Riders and my biggest problem is the amount of drinking and then riding. I am not against drinking in general but it is the focus of some chapters. Smoking is also a big turnoff
I have been in some posts where the smoke was so thick you couldn't see.
Also need to actually look out for members, not by reading a list of who is in the hospital and sending flowers
But truly having everyone's back.and making sure all members are in good shape

Response by Maj Kim Patterson made Aug 9 at 2022 2:38 AM

2022-08-09T02:38:13-04:00

I went to join the American Legion located jointly with the VFW. First question I got was “Are you here to apply for the waitress job?” I gave it a year but I still feel out of place. I go with a friend to sing karaoke at his VFW and it’s filled with smoke. I’ve ventured in a few other times but it always seems the same: a few at the bar hunched over their drinks and a gauntlet of smoke to walk through.

A thorough cleaning would be a great start, outside smoking. Love the karaoke. Sing or be a spectator. An occasional guest speaker would be welcoming.

Response by SPC David C. made Aug 10 at 2022 8:02 AM

2022-08-10T08:02:39-04:00

Thanks but no thanks. I'm glad I served, I keep in contact with the guys that are important to me and thats enough. I dont particularly want to relive "the good old days" or rehash old war stories again and again. That said, every single time I've been to one if those organizations, they're ALWAYS in an old, mold infested building that is either haunted, was probably condemned back in the 70s, or is in such bad shape the highway patrol or DMV doesn't even want it. Update the infrastructure.

Response by SP5 Renee Reif made Aug 10 at 2022 12:47 PM

2022-08-10T12:47:53-04:00

you can't. Not unless you eradicate religious nationalism, white supremacy and mysogyny from those organizations. They're useless and unwelcoming to most of us. Some of them even cause more pain than not.

Response by CPO David R. D. made Aug 10 at 2022 4:12 PM

2022-08-10T16:12:49-04:00

Interesting discussion. I don't belong to either organization, because I don't believe I have the time. I retired in 2016 with 24yrs Active Duty service. Five deployments to the Arabian Gulf from 1994 to 2012. Was aboard the USS ARKANSAS (CGN-41) during Operation Desert Strike. I also served aboard the ABRAHAM LINCOLN and the NIMITZ, while they deployed to the Middle East.

In 2016, when my family left NIOC Hawaii, my family relocated to Missouri, bought a farm with 39 acres and we currently have several types of animals. I also work full-time as a Quality Manager for a small Aerospace Industry manufacturer.
I also drive school bus part-time for a local school district. I have a bus driver co-worker that is the District President for the VFW in our area. He's consistently trying to get me to join, to boost their numbers. He's very willing to tell me all the good things the unit participates in, which I understand are good things for the community. I've seen them active in the school district and the community.
However; I don't believe I can give the organization the dedicated time it deserves, with all the other activities happening with my time. I don't want to be just a "number". If my schedule changes, then who knows exactly what the future holds with my association with the VFW. I've never considered the American Legion.

My opinion, if a person served our nation's military honorably, then their service and their choice to voluntarily serve, needs to be recognized and honored. I do realize we have veterans that were drafted, so the choice to serve was not theirs. Individual traits and characteristics should not distract or degrade the gratitude or appreciation expressed towards anyone who served.
I am grateful for my Brothers and Sisters in Arms, my military family, that share a common bond and similar experiences.

On a much larger scale, I am a Christian, I believe we are all children of a loving Heavenly Father and that's my choice. I will share what I believe with others if they ask, but I won't ever try to force my belief or faith on others. Billions of people on the earth and there are most likely Billions of different opinions on what's best for an individual. The key is to be respectful of others. Just my opinion!

Response by SSG Mona Swearingen made Aug 10 at 2022 5:11 PM

2022-08-10T17:11:34-04:00

Female, non-Christian and progressive. Definitely not welcome.

Response by Sgt Gary Thompson made Aug 11 at 2022 6:06 AM

2022-08-11T06:06:09-04:00

When I was a young man I went to a VFW post in my home town not long after I was discharged from the Corps, I found the same treatment from the WWII vets so I just never went, back, I thought about it later and asked myself, was I going there just to drink and BS about VN? And it was, so I just got on with my life.

Response by A1C Monica Baietti made Aug 11 at 2022 10:55 AM

2022-08-11T10:55:51-04:00

I tried to join and it was actually really complicated -- then when we tried to go to an event you could still smoke inside and that was challenging when we don't smoke and it was for dinner

More family oriented sounds great -- also making membership easier like the local chapter could send mailers by requesting the zip codes they have -- there just has to be a better way then the current method

Response by SSG Olivia Lott-Reese made Aug 11 at 2022 11:13 AM

2022-08-11T11:13:04-04:00

For women it’s worst. The older men call you baby, which is offensive.

Response by SGT M Livingston made Aug 11 at 2022 1:49 PM

2022-08-11T13:49:39-04:00

Stop centering everything around alcohol consumptions and make other activites available. I was ignored as a female when I volunteered for functions at a meeting so lost interest.

Response by MSgt George Stengel made Aug 11 at 2022 3:07 PM

2022-08-11T15:07:31-04:00

I currently am with a post in Florida and we want younger persons to join. So of the comments I get is they don't want anything to do with the milk anymore. So of the comments about Nam Vets are true but it imwont change unless you make it happen. Also the national headquarters is looking at this issue.

Response by Cpl Edward Conley made Aug 11 at 2022 5:27 PM

2022-08-11T17:27:45-04:00

Guess what?
All the World War II vets told us Nam Vets we weren’t real vets when we tried to join as well so join the club.
Quite frankly that’s why I never had anything to do with either one of those organizations.

Response by CMSgt Jay Pine made Aug 12 at 2022 12:47 AM

2022-08-12T00:47:29-04:00

Yet another reason why this is a bogus chat room

Response by SrA Christopher Snell made Aug 12 at 2022 4:57 AM

2022-08-12T04:57:19-04:00

Publicly "ie news cast radio appearances" denouncing how both the VFW and the Legion treated US Nam Vets when we tried to join when we got home. I was and I'm sure many other VN vets were told by ol ww2 vets that Nam was a conflict NOT a war .....

Response by SSG Brian Flick made Aug 12 at 2022 12:45 PM

2022-08-12T12:45:49-04:00

As a member of both organizations, don't let a few "bad apples" color your take on the groups. If your still interested try again with someone elses post, we aren't all like that.

Response by SGT Dave Adams made Aug 12 at 2022 3:03 PM

2022-08-12T15:03:41-04:00

Truthfully, I am an AMVETS member (Vice Commander). I am not inclined to join. I am a member of the local Honor Guard, and I am welcomed at all local posts. Personally, I wouldn't join the VFW, as I did not fight overseas. and the Legion, the atmosphere is not too welcoming. Membership is down, as well as everywhere else. As far as AMVETS is concerned, if you wore the uniform, you're more than welcome to join. And I'm not another "Fool on the Stool", or someone who joined just to drink at a reduced rate. I feel a relaxation of the guidelines would work, but only for so long.

Response by SSG Brian Flick made Aug 12 at 2022 3:55 PM

2022-08-12T15:55:37-04:00

Please visit http://www.vfw.org or https://www.legion.org/ for current info.

The Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S.

As the largest and oldest war veterans service organization, we have a long and proven history of providing vital assistance and support to America's service members, veterans and their families. From fighting for veterans benefits on Capitol Hill, to financial grants, transition support and educational scholarships, we're there to ensure current and former service members receive the benefits they've earned and deserve.

Response by SFC Richard OConnor made Aug 13 at 2022 3:28 PM

2022-08-13T15:28:26-04:00

When I returned from Nam I went to the local VFW and was not welcomed. I don’t recall what they said to me but it was quite clear they didn’t want us as members that is until the WWII & Korea vets started to PCS(die) that I received an invite from the post cdr wanting to know why I hadn’t joined. I explained my encounter at the club. They used to have daily lunches and Friday fish fries, all that has disappeared.

Response by Robert Jewkes made Aug 13 at 2022 4:16 PM

2022-08-13T16:16:22-04:00

Well, remember the younger crowd is mostly voluntary these days, the older groups nam and back was either draft, some voluntary and some jail sentence or join a branch, so how they could look down there nose at cold War Era and Iraq and Kuwait and Afghanistan vets as not vets us abhorrent. Then maybe do some more events including helping vets and non vets through charity.

Response by SPC Victoria Coe made Aug 13 at 2022 9:38 PM

2022-08-13T21:38:27-04:00

The few times I went to a VFW it was expected to drink and smoke...well, I quite both so I can live longer and healthier. The vibes I get from that, on top of being a woman combat veteran, is not cool. Either I was sexually harassed or dismissed as a spouse...both are offensive.

Response by SGT Glen Adkins made Aug 13 at 2022 10:48 PM

2022-08-13T22:48:51-04:00

The American Legions posts I visited were specifically for smokers and drinkers. Since I don't do either I didn't stay. I pay my dues every year, because I know they help other vets.

Response by SSG John Firneno made Aug 14 at 2022 2:13 PM

2022-08-14T14:13:21-04:00

Update them turn them into something other than the local diver bar with sticky floors and smoke filled places where the regulars look down upon anyone who was not their War, their Army you get the idea.

Response by SSG Mike Purvis made Aug 14 at 2022 6:55 PM

2022-08-14T18:55:45-04:00

We at the Tifton, Ga. Pist of VFW are begging the younger veterans to join. We aren't all old geezer buttheads

Response by SFC Larry Jones made Aug 15 at 2022 12:05 AM

2022-08-15T00:05:50-04:00

This onus is on me, and I readily admit it. My American Legion post is a few miles up the road. They sought me. They are very family oriented and although I have been a member for about two years, I have yet to attend a regular meeting. I am 68, so I don't know if that makes me one of the "old guys." I don't drink, and I don't like driving after dark. I do hope my dues are helping the Legion accomplish some of its goals.

Response by PFC Eric Stosius made Aug 15 at 2022 9:53 AM

2022-08-15T09:53:26-04:00

I am a legionnaire, I qualified because of my duties during beruit and Granada. I am a VFW auxiliary member. Most members I see at these clubs are social members non vets, they seem to be drinking clubs. Now I live in a very rural area. The clubs all look like old hunting camps. Not everyone looks all squared away. When we travel we will stop for lunch at a club most seem the same way, lots of bar flies. Good food usually. They have their qualifications for regular membership and social membership. But they seem to want all the dues paying members they can get. Anyway it is what it is.

Response by SPC Steve Willis, PhD made Aug 16 at 2022 2:35 PM

2022-08-16T14:35:36-04:00

As a Cold-Warrior, I never saw combat, so I would be excluded from the VFW regardless. Other such organizations sound to me like a bunch of other old farts sitting around telling tall tales while drinking themselves into a stupor. Sorry, can't show!

Response by SSgt Charles Dengler made Aug 16 at 2022 6:08 PM

2022-08-16T18:08:03-04:00

I am a Life Member of the VFW and a Legionnaire. I encourage everyone to join both if eligible to do so. Not all members of these clubs are as described. I would assume it can vary but most clubs are always looking to recruit more members to ensure these posts remain open. If you are in the Harrisburg PA area visit Highspire VFW Post 8638, you will be welcomed.

Response by Sgt Frank Vanacore made Aug 17 at 2022 6:17 PM

2022-08-17T18:17:20-04:00

I am a member of both the American Legion and VFW. Can't say for sure how the meetings go, as I never go to them. So it would not be fair for me to judge them. I know they work hard at what they do, and for that I am thankful. I was originally bitter at the Legion for saying I wasn't eligible. But they moved some timelines for eligibility (they were hurting for members) and I got in. I have asked so many of my friends to join, and they won't for that same reason. They tell me that the only reason they want them now is they need money. Their choice. With VFW I had no problem at all. I was not in a combat zone either.

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Aug 22 at 2022 4:30 AM

2022-08-22T04:30:14-04:00

I'm an American Legion member because my dad asked me to join about 45 years ago and I've continued in memory of him. But I haven't been to a meeting in a couple decades and have only been to about three meetings over that whole time. Meetings have always been about standing at attention and pretending I have to follow orders from whomever the currently elected officers are. It's been too much old soldiers reliving their glory days and not enough friendship and comradery.

Response by SFC Johnny Bushnell made Aug 23 at 2022 1:12 PM

2022-08-23T13:12:27-04:00

First quit letting Non-Veterans be members in the post!!

Response by SSgt Larry Chaple made Sep 12 at 2022 7:33 PM

2022-09-12T19:33:33-04:00

Getting it out of the hands of the old cronies! In our club, the same people run it over and over again and nothing changes because no one wants to hurt their friend's feelings. For example, our web page is pathetic but, "she's been doing it so long!" is the answer when I offer to update it.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2022 11:48 AM

2022-09-16T11:48:42-04:00

We’ve gone from the service mentality that a DUI is good to the post MADD drinking and driving being bad. Also our generation of vets are more health conscious. If we’re the majority. Then Taylor it to us not the remaining from the last generation that can still drive.

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made Sep 26 at 2022 9:30 PM

2022-09-26T21:30:22-04:00

I am a Member of the VFW, and have reason to go to a local American Legion post occasionally. I have not gone to my VFW post yet, but don't feel the draw at this point. I feel welcome by my host at the Legion, but that is where it ends. I may not have done what they did, but the same is also true of what I went through. If that is the issue, Vets need to remember that this is a brother and sisterhood that brings us together. These organizations are killing themselves from within.

Response by SGT Jacob Helms made Sep 27 at 2022 9:09 AM

2022-09-27T09:09:58-04:00

I remember when it was the Vietnam or Vietnam Era vets that were not welcome. All were painted with the same brush when it came to things like employment or acceptance in society.

Response by PO1 B Lewey made Sep 30 at 2022 1:37 PM

2022-09-30T13:37:03-04:00

Hello VFW - the 1950's called and they want their attitude back. Unless you smoke, drink or gamble, your local VFW doesn't have much to offer. Nationally - their advocacy and Veteran service officers at VA hospitals are excellent. Diversity is only listed on the door, it's not practiced in the post home. There are women, and LGBQT+ veterans who are eligible for VFW membership. Most VFW posts barely acknowledge women veterans. I have yet to find one accepting/welcoming of LGBQT veterans. They exist and their service was no less honorable than anyone else's. ! Until the VFW sheds it's 1950's mentality, then it will die a slow death.

Response by SPC Keith Lindsey made Oct 1 at 2022 1:56 AM

2022-10-01T01:56:32-04:00

My problem with at least the VFW is that the entire basis of the organization, that I could see when I've been to one, is for the members to gather, tell war stories, smoke and drink. Now, I'm all for the war stories, but I don't smoke, nor do I drink, so those both are non-starters for me.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2022 3:10 PM

2022-10-01T15:10:23-04:00

Well, the answer is about as varied as the sands in the desert. I have been involved with both AL and VFW. I have in the past served on the Executive Committee, Post Adjutant at my Legion Post, and AL Dept.
Color Guard for a while. I am just now getting involved with my VFW post after years of swearing I would never join that post because after 5 or 6 attempts to move my membership to that post from State at large membership, they never did anything. I only moved my membership there this last year because the gentleman, who is now post commander, personally engaged with me and pushed the paperwork through to make it happen. He is trying to move the post in the right direction and get new members in. Leadership is the key to the survival of any organization, VSO or otherwise. The reality of a lot of these posts is, these “old hats” in charge will eventually die off. If they don’t care any more about the purpose of the organization to which they belong and keeping the membership in that organization lively, you have an organization that dies. The local posts, so to speak, are the roots of the national organization and if those roots die, so does the organization. This all goes back to leadership, from the top to the bottom and vice versa.

Response by PO3 Ron Baker made Oct 2 at 2022 12:32 PM

2022-10-02T12:32:32-04:00

VFW is for Those who served overseas, in combat times, The American Legion on the other hand is now allowed by law to Welcome ALL Veterans, (according to Congressional law could not previously, younger Vets have blamed the American Legion for this, but it was not of their choice).

Response by SP5 Wick Humble made Oct 2 at 2022 2:21 PM

2022-10-02T14:21:01-04:00

I never considered either vets organization for similar reasons; I was a draftee, did my Two, and ETS'd. I didn't want to risk feeling unwelcome, or even shunned. Now I'm 77, and am afraid my local chapters are just gone Q-Anon. I feel "I'm as patriotic as the next guy, but I'm not crazy!" (Bullwinkle J. Moose, 1964) and I respect our flag, veterans, and service -- but... ! Well, you asked.
Oh, Bill Mauldin, twice Pulitzer Prize winning cartoonist and creator of WWII's 'Willie and Joe' often wrote sourly about 'Professional Veterans Organizations' and avoiding either one.

Response by SP5 Tom Flaherty made Oct 2 at 2022 5:50 PM

2022-10-02T17:50:13-04:00

a lot of this goes back to the draft with many people from the same high schools, colleges and communities part of the relationships were already formed in their home towns. These people grew up with vets from WWII and Korea often their parents. It was a different life style and Nam was only 10 years away from Korea. There is a 30 year gap from Nam to the War on Terror, no draft, fewer in the military it is a different world than us old folks know. take some time give us a chance ask us what it was like . there is a big gap where we can both build some bridges.

Response by SSG Angel Ramirez made Oct 12 at 2022 1:32 PM

2022-10-12T13:32:23-04:00

I was the Department of Texas VFW State Assistant Adjutant. And yes I will agree that some not all of the older Vietnam vets are not welcoming. However, look beyond that. Pay mo mind to them, specially if you want to be involved in the community. After a couple of Pist or District meetings they usually come around and embrace your tenacity for not giving in to the negativity.

Response by SSG Michael Needham made Oct 31 at 2022 6:07 PM

2022-10-31T18:07:25-04:00

Make them non smoking , I quit 40 years ago , don't care to walk in our local VFW it reeks.
I have gone in several times just for a few minutes and when I walk out I smell of stale cigarette smoke . My wife had half of her lung removed due to second hand cigarette smoke, she never smoked but her parents did

Response by CPT Ian Stewart made Nov 12 at 2022 11:29 AM

2022-11-12T11:29:45-05:00

My answer is little bit off subject, but what the hell. I am a life member of the VFW and DAV and have been a member of the AL in the past. I am not active in either the VFW or DAV because like most organizations to include the AL, I found that only ~10% - ~15% of the membership do all the work (fund raising, membership drives, etc.) while the rest only show up when there are freebies to be had. I got tired of feeling like I was being taken advantage of so I don't play anymore.
The other point I'd like to make why are there so many different veteran's organizations? There is the AL, VFW, DAV, various war specific groups (VVA, IAVA, etc.), PVA, AMVETS and so forth.....why?! All these groups are competing with each other for members of which there is a finite supply. Each claims to be fighting for veterans in DC, but they don't realize (or want to admit) that the fight for veteran's issues would be much more effective if there was a single organization that went before congress. This leads me to the other reason I'm not active in the organizations - turf wars. Also so many groups have an entrenched group of "leaders" that are more interested in preserving their titles and perceived power than actually benefitting the rank and file of their membership - I've seen firsthand the in-fighting and back stabbing that goes on. If it were otherwise, they would work with the leaders of the other groups towards forming a unified organization.....but that ain't gonna happen. Not in my lifetime.

Response by SSG Michael Baney made Nov 15 at 2022 3:28 PM

2022-11-15T15:28:47-05:00

Combine them into one organization. Only about 2% of Americans serve in the military. Why are we still making a distinction between those who got orders for combat and those who didn't. I am 100% Total and Permanent Service Connected Disabled Retired Army and would never join either because I am sick of the division.

Response by C Marrone made Nov 15 at 2022 9:51 PM

2022-11-15T21:51:26-05:00

Unfortunately not all halls are friendly which is unfortunate as well as being in areas that is less than inviting and not enough parking

Response by SSG Leo Mcardle made Nov 16 at 2022 11:44 AM

2022-11-16T11:44:49-05:00

I’m 77 and a Nam Veteran. I also found issues with older vets when I got out in 70.
Some posts are nothing but a bunch of drinkers who don’t do _ _ _ _. I found an AL post quite a distance from me that accepts all Veterans male & female and respects them. They are not allowed to smoke in the bldg. and we only have beer & wine for alcohol at dinner not at meetings. A few of the better posts can’t get younger members because of the bad posts. If you want to work with fellow Veterans and do things in the community I suggest visiting other posts that may be a little further away. What my AL post does makes it worthwhile to me to travel the extra distance.

Response by PO3 Carri Williams made Nov 16 at 2022 9:25 PM

2022-11-16T21:25:20-05:00

As a woman the hostility is unbelievable! And I have a CAR!!! Combat Action Ribbon for those who don’t know! I’m just a woman I shouldn’t be allowed to hang out there or with the crusty men.
Like anything else you don’t go where you aren’t wanted or comfortable! I don’t get any of the not real war comments, I get that I didn’t earn my CAR and that it was just given to me!
Why force myself on people that do not have an ounce of respect for me or my accomplishments!
I choose my battles and this is one that isn’t worth the fight. Additionally, the wives club think that as a woman you should hang out with them. I am the Veteran not the Veteran’s spouse! Neither the old crusty’ nor their wives want my presence!

Respectfully,
Carri

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Nov 16 at 2022 11:51 PM

2022-11-16T23:51:45-05:00

I went to my local AL, they were very hostile to both Navy and me. It was just a click and they did not seem to want new members. If they are really AL, then all services should be welcome. I am retired Navy and they really seemed as if they did not want retired Sailors as part of the membership there.

My "local" Branch of the FRA is more than 40 miles away. I thought the AL would be like them, not! FRA in many cities is family oriented, but not so here.

Since I never served in a War Zone (I was on active duty from 1966 to 1996). My ships and I never entered a Combat Zone, so VFW is out! I went in once as a guest, never again since I am not a REAL Sailor or I get, "Never served in Nam- get out!" I was surprised the Vets from WArs and not just "police actions" are not let in without all of the garbage.

I am a life member of the DAV (no clubs) and FRA.

Response by CPL General's Driver General's Driver made Nov 17 at 2022 1:53 AM

2022-11-17T01:53:47-05:00

The local VFW is close to me, but I have multiple cancers and the VA doctors refuse complimentary (read Naturopathic methods of dealing with it. With my muscle atrophy and IBS, I cannot eat anything but clear bone broth; The great tacos they make on Wednesdays are off limits for me right now, but I'm slowly getting stronger and have visiting them on a Wednesday when I am stronger (a couple month from now, I'll see what I can do. I had no idea the VFW needed new members. They helped me get reading glasses and distance driving glasses for free through Flying Doctors. I'll help; Pray that I heal. It is difficult to have conversations with the VA doctors, because they are rude and don't see yet what I can do before surgery, surgery, surgery.
They don't understand that I need to fix the IBS myself because they only order prescriptions that are in direct incompatible with my diagnoses. Power over is all the doctors at the VA know and I refuse to let them kill me by their own lack of genuine care.

Response by SGT Shawn McCrea made Nov 17 at 2022 6:47 AM

2022-11-17T06:47:51-05:00

I had no problem becoming a life member for the VFW. The CAB, CIB & Iraq campaign Medal hold some weight.

Response by SGT Bobby Ewing made Nov 17 at 2022 8:57 AM

2022-11-17T08:57:25-05:00

The fact that I can walk into my local VFW, walk through the whole building, and not one person will say anything to me. That is the main reason I have never returned. I have attended a couple of Bike Runs from there, The only people that spoke to me where the people taking my money and giving me the map of where we were going. I do notice everybody has a little group they hang with, evidently I don't fit into any group, or veteran motorcycle club. Basically the VFW is one of the most unwelcoming places I have ever been too.

Response by CPT John Popham made Nov 17 at 2022 10:43 PM

2022-11-17T22:43:20-05:00

As a Vietnam vet (Army, 69-70) I joined both the Legion and VFW, but all of the posts within driving distance allow smoking, which is a deal breaker for me. I support the goals of both organizations, and would really like to be able to participate but neither my wife nor I can enjoy a smoky environment.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2022 11:31 PM

2022-11-17T23:31:10-05:00

I was a member of the American Legion for three years while Active Duty and stationed in central NY. My largest complaint is that being a member put me on a paper mailing list for everything to do with the post. Way too much junk mail. My wife and I try to maintain a paper free home (as well as other ways to reduce waste and reduce our carbon footprint, but this is about the paper). After moving out of NY to Colorado, the NY American Legion continued to send membership renewal notices, raffle tickets requesting money, address labels requesting money, etc. I tried contacting the post as well as the NY American Legion HQ numerous times to get off the mailing list. I didn't live in the state anymore, so it all seemed counterproductive to me. I was finally able to stop the paper stream after four years of living in Colorado.

My recommendation to the subject question would be to adopt an online profile where memberships can be renewed and managed, and an opt-out of any paper mailing. Additionally, recommend accepting payments through Venmo, Zelle, PayPal, as checks, while still acceptable, are very outdated.

Overall just update the membership and payment processes to something modern. I don't think it's changed since 1970.

I won't return as a member just to avoid the mass amount of paper in my mailbox.

Response by SSG Tim Joynt made Nov 18 at 2022 9:49 AM

2022-11-18T09:49:12-05:00

I have been a VFW Member since 1987. Coming up on 45 Years. My Father was 46 Year Member at his death in 1991. My Grandfather was a 39 Year member at the time of his death in 1957. All of us were Post Commanders of Post 7227 Carthage NY. I am sure that many have experienced a rough time with some of our members. I am also sure that we often let ourselves be intimidated by the gruff demeanor of some Vets. You belong with us. You have earned your place. If you allow a sour individual color your entire experience well maybe you need to look beyond that and give it back as good as you get. Multi generational organizations like ours have many different personalities. Some are rather closed until you make your bones with them, find the shared experiences with them. Some are open and inviting welcoming and kind, they look for how to include you in their shared service. Some are quiet and distant to you neither seeming to invite in or exclude you. I ask who you are to pass final judgement on those that have come before you and those that will come after you.

I have heard this song of how “I was treated etc” for both The VFW and the American Legion. I also know that the great majority of VFW members are American Legion members. So I ask did you just catch us on a “bad day”? I have them. I am sure you have them. Esprit de Corps should be our motto. I have Served seen and done what few others except those like me have served seen and done. We are brothers and sisters above everything. Don’t lose faith, gain strength.

T Joynt
Past Post Commander
VFW POST 7227.

Response by SSG Terry O'Donal made Nov 18 at 2022 9:53 AM

2022-11-18T09:53:31-05:00

A lot depends on the post for either organization. I have no experience with the VFW as I was never interested. I had a great experience with American Legion Post 154 in Pflugerville, Texas and I am still a member on paper even though I have lived on the east coast now for the last two years. The local American Legion post where I live now is clannish and not real welcoming. They will take your money and I am on their call list whenever they are having an event or inviting me to the monthly meetings but, again, for them, it's all about the money. My post in Texas was all about comradery and doing community things together. Here it is all about established members doing everything and newbies get shoved aside. I don't need that. I will continue to send my annual subscription to Post 154.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2022 7:18 PM

2022-11-18T19:18:41-05:00

I honestly think it depends on the post and the culture of it. I recently joined a legion post two years ago and they've been welcoming since day 1. And the post I joined isn't close to my home. So honestly I can say it depends on the members and the culture that's bred within the organization

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Nov 19 at 2022 10:59 AM

2022-11-19T10:59:11-05:00

Curious!
Returning from RVN I joined VFW, and RVN vet friends and I had to fight our way out most of the time, as we "didn't fight a real war". Sound familer? I was also an officer at Local Marine Corps League for awhile, more accepting. Over the years I have seen few younger vets at niether the VA hospitals/clinics or orgnisations. Why? I think, no I know, we have much in common. A few years back I had a Ranger and a Marine crew my formula race car at Daytona as part of Vetmotorsports. We had a GREAT time!, even though I was not a great fan of that organisation (inept, bueracratic and too much like an officer club). Whats the answer? Like racing, you cant win if you dont play. Show up, make some noise. I will dam sure listen! I never wanted to see my experiences repeated.

Response by PO3 Cheryl Schneider made Nov 19 at 2022 4:53 PM

2022-11-19T16:53:32-05:00

In July, 2017; I went before a VA Judge in L.A., CA. I was informed that a DAV representative was unavailable to represent me. So a representative from American Legion stepped in to help. The judge was unable to rule on all the claims that my late husband started and I took over his case. Any suggestions or ideas to help me get this adjThere are number of claims, plus a tort claim that still have not been settled on since 2006. When I have contacted the VA and DAV no one knows what is going on with any of the claims or tort the claim. Any ideas or suggestions on getting these matters adjudicated. Sorry for the Jessup in other post but this is nerve wrecking and painful.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2022 6:30 PM

2022-11-19T18:30:08-05:00

Stop the focus on alcohol

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2022 6:42 PM

2022-11-19T18:42:28-05:00

All men that spend time away from their family and friends and serve on foreign countries deserve respect and honor!
I spent Over 7 years All over the world serving in the Navy 3 tours in Nam!
When I came home I was treated like a total stranger!
My wife and family were and are my closest friends and still are

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2022 7:24 PM

2022-11-19T19:24:49-05:00

Exactly,why go where we're not wanted,if they don't want me they don't get my dues, I guess they can just get along without us or our money. I only go where I feel welcome,besides, Denny's had better fare & hours without the bullshit.

Response by MSG David King made Nov 20 at 2022 4:33 AM

2022-11-20T04:33:36-05:00

The VFW is exclusive and a tad bit snobbish. I'm a 30 year vet with no deployments. That wasn't by choice, just lucky. I tried the legion but all they want is dues. The scamdemic showed they are self serving and useless to me. I'm watching my country crumble and neither patriotic organization seems to care. F'em all, I don't care what happens to them. I do care for the country but that's just not popular I guess.

Response by A1C Isa Kocher made Nov 20 at 2022 6:41 AM

2022-11-20T06:41:05-05:00

first of all for me personally as someone who enlisted during the 1962 Cuba Crisis when we faced the very real immediate at the door reality of WWIII in minutes away, prevented solely by the personal courage of the president of the US and the chairman of the soviet union's leadership collective, the council of ministers., i enlisted knowing dying in that war was near certainty.

Yet, when I was discharged and faced a lifetime of physical and neurological disability, TBI, PTSD[not the diagnosis given then] seizure disorder, spinal injuries, and medical incompetence, not only did the Legion and VFW not help, but they did their best to make my life even more hell than it was already. Nearly 60 years later the jingoistic hypocrisy has not changed one whit.

US American ideals are the world's highest: our TV and cinema routinely produce a national myth unrivalled in human history. Our heroes include the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King jr. and the Freedom Riders. In Terminator, an AI machine learns the spiritual meaning of our Declaration of Independence and chooses consciously deliberately rationally chooses personal martyrdom to preserve that spark of humanity that the US American myth holds as our nation's highest treasure: love of others. The #1 core principle of holy scriptures Torah, the Gospels, the letters of Paul, the Quran, the Buddhist Sutras, the world's most revered writings.

and our heroes are people like eleanor roosevelt, sojournner truth, harriet tubman, abraham lincoln, and between 1862-1865, 1942-1945, etc. millions of us americans made the ultimate sacrifice. SCOTUS 1819 McCulloch v Maryland " the US is the union of the people governed by the people for the sake of the people. " ... we are here for each other.

That's who we are. Who we are called to be. why we fight. That's what "America" means to a 'wake' Terminator martyr. "wake" meaning conscious and with a conscience. wholly human by intent and with integrity, open eyed with no hidden agenda. open handed. open hearted. not afraid of god's love. "under god" means not being afraid of god's love. the light of life.

Benjamin Franklin "either we all hang together or we'll all hang separately"

we are the people: we unite as one people of every shade hue flavor, taste, because all alone, caring about yourself only, no one can ever be whole. .

Response by SGT(P) Jennifer Brande made Nov 20 at 2022 9:40 AM

2022-11-20T09:40:34-05:00

Having never been actively pursued to join the VFW, perhaps because I am a combat deployment disabled female veteran they are COMPLETELY ignoring my demographic and clearly are not interested in my input so I give my time to organizations that do care about what I have to say. That’s a HUGE ding against one of the “Big 6” as far as I’m concerned.

As to the American Legion. I am a new three month member, and am in a leadership role in my post and was at our Department Fall Convention just the other day. Yeah they care about women and those of us who served, but they are missing the big picture, we as veterans of a younger age are more SERVICE MINDED and would much rather spend the day with organizations who want to meet the goals of what we stand for (as an example, partner with Habitat for Humanity or a similar organization and help build housing to get homeless veterans off the street) rather than sit in a dark, dank, dimly lit bar telling war stories and getting drunk.

The other MAJOR glaring issue is that between both organizations all of the senior leaders are old and primarily white men, VFW only has TWO women in national leadership but I guess that’s a start. The American Legion only has ONE female in a national leader role, and in my state in Florida, aka the most military and veteran friendly state in the US, there are less than 5 women leaders in roles.

I can’t even get fellow veterans I know to join because all they see are old men and not them to try and feel welcome and that their opinions and comments would matter.

Response by SSgt Gary White made Nov 20 at 2022 5:55 PM

2022-11-20T17:55:05-05:00

Too much smoke and booze for my taste. Not a fan of crazy right wing nut jobs reliving the glory days that never happened. Being a Veteran is not the center of my life, I’ve moved on.

Response by SSgt Jon Hall made Nov 20 at 2022 10:10 PM

2022-11-20T22:10:01-05:00

Have found AL posts very closed and even hostile to new members. The veteran hierarchy prevails and instead of encouraging the celebration of experiences is used to maintain status, power and control. The old guy problem definitely exists but the post 9/11 vets have their prejudices that also make for an unwecolming environment. Got some real horror stories in searching for an inclusive post. If these folks would bother to open a manual or take the AL training course they would see the original intent was to to be rankless with even not having rank displayed on their covers or attire. I even started a post in an undeserved area and the district commander installed his post 9/11 cronies who later revolted saying they didn't want to do the ceremonies or follow the old AL system resulting in a post failure. It was taken over by the AL Riders and operating as a biker club and umconventetional renegade post with operating token post. After visiting with them there's justification for the district commander not wanting to install their officers. Each post has a personality and a candidate has to shop for a match. Unfortunately, my area is out of options for a compatable post.

Response by SPC Tarrence Molendyk made Nov 22 at 2022 1:35 AM

2022-11-22T01:35:30-05:00

Armyman42*

Response by SN John Dilley made Nov 22 at 2022 11:30 PM

2022-11-22T23:30:40-05:00

The VFW turned away Vietnam Vets in the 60s/70s. Now they want us? Well screw 'em. can't say much about the Legion, don't know anything about them.

Response by SGT Wayne Grindstaff made Nov 27 at 2022 7:26 PM

2022-11-27T19:26:41-05:00

I never had a desire to join either. Why, so I could tell war stories that I won't even tell my Son's. I was way to busy enjoying life after I survived what I went through. My DIL asked me to write a story about combat, she expected the blood and gore I saw. I fooled her and wrote a love story I witnessed over there during combat.

Response by SGT Bill Braniff made Dec 4 at 2022 10:47 AM

2022-12-04T10:47:38-05:00

I find this remark humorous as that is exactly the same thing Vietnam Vets got from the Korean and WWII and yes WWI Veterans. We didn't fight a 'real'war. haha . Yup time changes nothing.

I have been a member of the
American Legion for 40 years now. I used to be an active member, but not for the last 25 years. Legions I belonged to are too much about the Bars, and a cliquish membership. I wouldn't want to be a young guy trying to join nowadays.
The VFW. I have never been a member of the VFW, though I served more than honorably in Vietnam and all of my service life. Why? because I was not eligible to join. I am a Canadian citizen who left home to enlist in US Army. I served starting as a PFC and four months later was an acting Sergeant squad leader. The reason I din't have my stripes was because of all the Shake and Bakes we had in our Company. I had two under me in my squad. This was right after Ten in 68. The VFW did not allow foreigners to join their ranks. I was told several months ago that they changed this but haven't seen anything formal. I do live in the US married to a Maine gal for 54 years.
I wouldn't join them now if they gave me a free lifetime membership.

Response by SGT Mark Friedman made Dec 6 at 2022 8:31 AM

2022-12-06T08:31:57-05:00

I am active in an ith T he e be American Legion and The Son's of the be American Legion at various levels above the local Post level. My two teenage son's are District Officers and my older Son assists me at the Division Level as my assistant Sgt-at-Arms. Yes, all the problems described happen in SOME posts. It truly is is a matter of getting out to here and finding a clubhouse you are comfortable at

Response by SSgt Jon Hall made Dec 7 at 2022 4:23 PM

2022-12-07T16:23:39-05:00

Every American Legion post has a personality ie. NAM vets, legion Riders, post 9/11 vets, post politics, etc. May not be but one post located close enough to be active and if there's not a match with a person's interest then it's a deal breaker. Like the examples given in these posts, first impressions justify a second visit. Some common justifications are atmosphere, inclusiveness, friendliness, organization, respect for rituals and activities. In the AL training class, which isn't encouraged in most posts, members learn important things about the legion like the original intent and it being a rank less organization, i.e., no display of rank on the AL cover or attire although a small branch device is acceptable. in an environment where rank is their identity that's a hard concept. The veteran pecking order i.e., retirees, officers, rank, peace time service vets, or combat medals or the "I'm more of a veteran than you" attitude drives off new prospects. Peace time vets, guard and reserve memberships are welcomed on the membership rolls as are the dues but may not rate any benefits like a post military funeral or even a flag. Easy fix providing the "real vets" can get over their exclusiveness. Recognition of service can mean a lot as their contribution may not be recognized by the "grateful nation". Also, posts want to include resources from surrounding communities but tend to demonstrate favoritism for the post location. The AL training notes that member involvement is usually within a ten-mile distance but if the post doesn't include the new prospects town/community the participation incentive can be affected.
These issues can be affected by the leadership of the post officers but even at that, only so much can be done without buy in from the membership. Some would refuse to be inclusive even at the detriment of the post and the purpose of veterans' organization itself.

Response by PO2 Tom Sage made Dec 18 at 2022 10:25 AM

2022-12-18T10:25:23-05:00

My local VFW always has a nice program on Memorial Day and Veterans Day. As a pilot of a World War II airplane, I approached them a few years ago asking if they would like to have a fly over when they do their presentation. Of course they always love it.
My grandkids and I sort of adopted a small local cemetery to keep the American flags flying on the veterans gravesites. The VFW graciously supplies us with the flags. Every Memorial Day we put new flags on all the gravesites and then maintain them all year long. Some get ragged and faded.
Everyone I have met at the VFW our first class people.
( I’m a national member of Amvets.)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2022 10:24 AM

2022-12-19T10:24:18-05:00

Our VFW in Seattle is finally beginning to see GWOT vets funnel in. Our entire post is a welcoming post. Our current commander is a female veteran of the USAF. But, no one really thinks of her as "her." She is simply the commander. Our WWII veterans aren't able to come in much now that they are reaching their 100s. But, we have an active group of Korea, VN, Grenada/Panama/DS-DS/Somolia/Balkans, and GWOT veterans. Come by. You'll enjoy the stories. And, there will be a listening ear to hear your stories.

Response by PO1 Janice Ritz made Dec 20 at 2022 7:40 AM

2022-12-20T07:40:34-05:00

My grandfather was a member of the American Legion and his home was the post. I can remember going to pancake breakfasts and other fund raisers when I was a child. When he died, over 100 AL members were at his funeral. Back then, I did not know what the AL was. As a veteran myself now, I would be honored to join if allowed. I do not meet the "war" requirement. As far as the VFW goes, if I were eligible I would not join because they serve alcohol. As a recovering alcoholic, the last place I need to be is around a bunch of angry veterans who are drinking the woes away about their "wars."

Response by CPO James Barnhart made Dec 28 at 2022 5:42 PM

2022-12-28T17:42:02-05:00

They have to get rid of the smoke fillled stinky bar. That's a huge turnoff. Get rid of smoking inside and cater to more than just old guys sitting at the bar telling war stories. That's what I remember when I walked into 3 of them. But, that was a few years ago. I never went inside one again.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2022 6:41 PM

2022-12-28T18:41:45-05:00

I am a member of AMVETS and DAV. They are both very active and do things for veterans and others in need. Don’t really see an incentive to join the others. Seems like they don’t do a whole lot outside of their own clubs.

Response by LtCol Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2023 8:05 AM

2023-01-02T08:05:09-05:00

Stopped going to my local VFW in NH. I’m a retired Marine and found it not very family oriented. Older group that were clickish and nothing but video poker and drinking than actually doing anything in the community. The Legion post I joined never had more than 3-4 people in the place smelled like an ashtray; everyone smoked there.

When I’d bring up trying to attract younger vets and families at the VFW it didn’t appear anyone was interested. The post commander was basically an absentee commander.

Response by PO1 Mike Meehan made Jan 2 at 2023 10:20 AM

2023-01-02T10:20:54-05:00

Legion is easy as far as membership, but VFW has always been confusing as to eligibility criteria for submariners. Some posts would only allow SSBN sailors to join up, some allowed SSBN and SSN sailors to join as long as the SSN guys had an Expeditionary Medal.

Response by PO1 Mike Wallace made Jan 8 at 2023 5:16 PM

2023-01-08T17:16:33-05:00

As a long time member of the legion in several posts where I've served on their executive committees I assure you this IS NOT how it's suppose to be done. Not all posts have that frame of mind but sadly it's not new. Believe it or not the WW2 vets faced the same 'you aren't wanted here'.
When we see this it's most often a smaller post with an older long time membership. Those kinds of posts with the attitudes you describe exist but are far outnumbered by posts that welcome all veterans. I hope you find one but if you don't let me know, we welcome ALL eligible service members/veterans.
As to the reception for female veterans, I didn't realize how bad it was until I married a female veteran. We met through the legion and have watched as it has gotten far better.
All VSO's are losing members because our younger vets aren't looking for a beer joint and bingo hall. They want family related events. They also are looking for exactly what VSO stands for. Veterans Service Organization.
Do events for all veterans, member or not. Do things like have a VA enrollment officer come to your post to enroll people in the VA system. Host a VA certified service officer every few months to help all area veterans file or check on claims.

Response by SPC Dennis Lane made Jan 25 at 2023 3:45 AM

2023-01-25T03:45:13-05:00

I'm interested in the American Legion. Served with the B Battery, 7th Battalion 115th Artillery.

Response by LTC Ernest Edge made Jan 25 at 2023 11:21 PM

2023-01-25T23:21:56-05:00

The ones I belonged to in Key West, FL were both great! I highly recommend going to them when you make it down there.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2023 6:29 AM

2023-01-26T06:29:37-05:00

The strictness of the entrance criteria for the VFW is also an obstacle. I retired from the army after more than 36 years of service. My bullets had me performing humanitarian missions overseas but I was not deployed in combat assignments on foreign soil. I am then not eligible for membership.

Response by CSM William Payne made Jan 26 at 2023 9:51 AM

2023-01-26T09:51:31-05:00

I am the current commander of my local post. It’s a Catch 22 situation. At 68 I’m one of the younger members that attends meetings. I would love to do all the things that younger Veterans would like a post to do, but without the younger members to make it happen, it’s status quo. I am very welcoming to new, younger, more diverse members, I just can’t seem to get a foothold in new membership. We are a large post of about 300 members. Most are Vietnam Vets, but we still have 5 from World War II still with us. If we have 15 - 25 at any meeting, we’re lucky. What can I do to attract younger members?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2023 1:16 PM

2023-01-26T13:16:47-05:00

Volunteers from the posts to take people home after they have been drinking.

I work with a federal agency, any charge such as reckless driving, DUI, DWI, etc., will trigger a personnel action equivalent to a GOMOR and dismissal following review. Most businesses also take a very dim view of these offenses.

Response by GySgt Ray Harris made Jan 26 at 2023 6:43 PM

2023-01-26T18:43:48-05:00

Try getting involved. Go to the monthly meetings and participate. You will be AMAZED at how desperate most posts are for leadership. Volunteer. Soon enough, you will be running the whole show, and you can ensure that younger veterans are welcomed the right way. You don't have to start out as the Post Commander. You can try another post, and when you do well in those, move on up. Don't let a couple of grumpy old farts ruin your membership.

Response by SPC Greg Abarr made Jan 27 at 2023 3:26 PM

2023-01-27T15:26:59-05:00

Don't feel alone.
When i was released from the hospital and discharged in 1970 I went to the local VFW post and was told that Nam was not a real war.
The American legion had the same response.
I have avoided both since then and as far as I am concerned any vet who has served deserves to belong to one of these organizations.
Any Nam vet who feels that the combat vet's of Desert Storm or later war's have not fought a real war needs some consoling.
Just my opinion but if we don't include and welcome then these org. need to die out.

Response by LTC Thomas VaVerka made Jan 28 at 2023 11:12 AM

2023-01-28T11:12:27-05:00

This is a tough one that doesn’t have an easy answer. It seems that post Vietnam servicemen don’t care to hang out in a bar. Unfortunately, the bar remains their central attraction.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Jan 28 at 2023 1:11 PM

2023-01-28T13:11:29-05:00

I looked at both veteran organizations and found excessive drinking in both. I would up joining the DAV they helped me with disability claims and also they don't serve boos or food, just give good service.

Response by MSG Gregg Clement made Jan 28 at 2023 3:59 PM

2023-01-28T15:59:45-05:00

There's a comment below that VFW and Am Legion posts are not welcoming new members.
BULLSHIT.
I haven't heard of that since the '80s (Vietnam Vets).
We are busting ass to recruit. When only 1% of fresh high school graduates join the military, It's very hard to recruit. We even pay first year dues for newbies.
I am the adjutant of our AL Post and the surgeon (and former commander) of our VFW Post. And I am a lifer for both organizations and some others.

Response by PO1 John Hudson made Jan 28 at 2023 4:06 PM

2023-01-28T16:06:11-05:00

I agree. There is little diversity, few younger men and women wanting to join, they are right in feeling as though their service and experience is not as valued as older members. It takes every service member to make these associations successful. Everyone who has served should feel valued, welcomed and actively pursued to join and keep the organization growing. We are veterans first and regardless our life choices we should be accepted.

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Jan 28 at 2023 4:25 PM

2023-01-28T16:25:35-05:00

I am a Vietnam vet. I had the same problem with WW2 and Korean vets. I am no longer a member, but I believe it has to do with the war each fought. Each war is different, and the older generation has less in common with the next. I think integrating the wars into a common enemy with a common theme would help. I believe Major Hoover was correct in his assessment that more involvement with other groups as families or helping homeless children, etcetera.

Response by SSgt Brian Brakke made Jan 28 at 2023 5:30 PM

2023-01-28T17:30:20-05:00

MAJ Robert H. Thank you for this post!! I literally just sent it on to every member of my executive team (I am the current Adjutant) at the American Legion Post 15 here in Loveland Colorado. We have had this discussion SO MANY TIMES and have no answers. I am fortunate in that my post has BOTH the VFW (Post 41) and my Legion post under the same roof. We understand how the younger generation from the GWOT is coming back home, and starting families and don't have the "time" required to be active members. That doesn't mean they shouldn't want to join, but we here do our best to make them ALL feel welcome!! I agree with so many of the comments in this thread already. I wish I could wave a magic wand and get everyone involved. As you stated, so many of the Korea folks and now NAM folks are dying that it is concerning. I am on our clubs Honor Guard and am honored to present colors and rites to those who have passed. Our club has a Non Profit called the Associated Veterans of Loveland (AVoL) and our honor guard is made up of both VFW and AL members and the AVoL pays for all our uniforms, flags, Bugle, and ammunition. When you work towards a common goal, things become simple. I will be following this thread in hopes of someone coming up with an answer!

Response by SGM Ronald Cheatom made Jan 29 at 2023 11:32 AM

2023-01-29T11:32:32-05:00

I understand what the younger vets are saying because I was treated the same way until I made reminded some of them of how they were treated by WW2 and Korea veterans. The kicker for me was when I went back, several years ago, I was treated the same way, but this time by the younger vets. Mu time of service was from 1981 to 2001. I was all over, Central and South America. Served in Urgent Fury, Just Cause and Desert Storm, and was in Afghanistan when the Soviets were there, although that is not widely known, except for a little Tom Hanks movie called Charlie Wilson's War. The Vietnam era vets, and the ones who served in the recent wars don't look at us as being worthy of membership. A fight is a fight is a fight, period.

Response by SFC R. Lee Linebarger made Jan 29 at 2023 9:02 PM

2023-01-29T21:02:33-05:00

The VFW still struggles with "it's a boys only drinking club". Yes I known it is not. But that is the image the generalbpublic has.

Also, younger qualifying veterans are sometimes made to feel their "war" wasn't a real war.

And, many of the "old timers" shun qualified female veterans and try to push them to the Auxillary which in turn shuns certain family members from joining.

I cannot speak as to the American Legion as I am not member, but I am a life memeber of the VFW and was once active in my post. No more though due tobinternal politics and outside perceptions.....

Response by SN Samuel Bohannon made Jan 30 at 2023 10:36 AM

2023-01-30T10:36:12-05:00

I'm a Vietnam Veteran, I feel any person putting their life out there for God an country Deserves the Respect they Have Earned and be treated as such, nam vets may feel there way from getting spit on departing plane from which most never came back! All War is Hell guys no need to take it out on our selfs, age does not matter what we all went thru Does! BO

Response by 1LT Brandon Brackett made Jan 30 at 2023 5:23 PM

2023-01-30T17:23:51-05:00

if they paid me money to join

Response by Lt Col Gregory Anderson made Jan 30 at 2023 5:52 PM

2023-01-30T17:52:48-05:00

Every day that goes by there are more and more OEF / OIF Veterans that want to join, but they go into these VFWs and American Legions and it's like walking into church - cliques and isolation. The programs are already in place but aren't welcoming for new members. The word that comes to mind is ATROPHY. These organizations will slowly die without knowing it if they continue without changing to accommodate OEF / OIF veterans.
I agree with most of the posts here: make these organizations more family oriented. And support the OEF / OIF guys and gals more. It only takes ONCE for them to walk in and then walk out 15 minutes later and never go back.

Response by Lt Col James Hyde made Jan 30 at 2023 7:09 PM

2023-01-30T19:09:04-05:00

Not interested in rehashing time in combat. Besides, we are mostly of a different generation. I visited one with my father, long before I retired, and all it seemed to be about was drinking. So, nothing that interests me. I can volunteer with a number of different groups…Civil Air Patrol comes to mind.

Response by 1SG Frank Lafferty made Jan 31 at 2023 3:07 PM

2023-01-31T15:07:21-05:00

Having the opposite at some of our VFW (RI), not getting enough Vietnam Vets. My post has only 2 or 3. I also interact with other posts as the State VFW Inspector and Vietnam vet.

Response by SSgt James Carter made Feb 5 at 2023 11:14 AM

2023-02-05T11:14:35-05:00

Lack of acceptance of spouses seems to be the biggest stumbling block that drove me away after only a year. Granted I was late to the game, having to seek them out myself, but that's no excuse for forcing a new member to break into a clique. We're all brothers and sisters in blue or green, that shouldn't change.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Feb 8 at 2023 1:41 PM

2023-02-08T13:41:24-05:00

Perhaps opening membership to those who served in peacetime as I did and those who served during war but were not called into the theater as I did also. I was a 13N when I served because I thought as I was growing up in the 80s the next war would be nuclear.

The VFW helped me out a lot by processing my claim for Crohn's Disease disability. I would always love to join and pay them back but although I served in Germany as part of V Corps, I did not go to Saudi as the rest of my VII Corps post did. Instead, I did a lot of roving patrol and gate guard duties but I did not go to war. But we were always ready to go. We even out-processed when we were supposed to go to Turkey and then that deployment was canceled.

Response by TSgt Karen B. made Feb 16 at 2023 10:44 AM

2023-02-16T10:44:34-05:00

I'm a life member of the VFW, but I never go because of the smoke. Thanks to damage from the burn pits, I now live with asthma and chronic bronchitis. Even the slightest whiff of cigarette/cigar smoke causing an attack.

Response by TSgt Gwen Walcott made Feb 23 at 2023 1:46 PM

2023-02-23T13:46:07-05:00

The Legion just wants me for my money and a membership number (and a target of solicitations for "charity"). The VFW says the fact that I was Air Force and flew OVER (but not landed) in Nam disqualifies me for consideration --- so, to hell with them!

Response by PO1 T.M. Ritchie made Feb 24 at 2023 2:35 PM

2023-02-24T14:35:37-05:00

Most of them in my experience have become country clubs for National Guard members who ride motorcycles.

Response by PO3 William Mittler made Feb 24 at 2023 9:11 PM

2023-02-24T21:11:54-05:00

I never felt welcome being a Vietnam veteran so I left.

Response by SPC Teckla Wattman made Feb 25 at 2023 8:29 AM

2023-02-25T08:29:29-05:00

I remember when I joined my local VFW they were surprised I was a female veteran. I was also their only female veteran and often they would confuse me with the women's auxiliary. They would ask me which branch my husband served in. Hello, I'm the veteran and I don't have a husband. I don't know if they did it on purpose or out of ignorance but I stopped going. I have a life membership from thirty yrs ago but I don't even use it. Everyone was much older than me too and their ideals were from a different era. I don't even think that VFW Post is still around. I also remember receiving invites to attend meetings or get togethers weeks after they had already occurred. Obviously they really didn't want me to attend. So, fast forward to now...I'm reluctant to attend/ join any group just from past experiences.

Response by SGT Stephen Savasky made Feb 25 at 2023 10:02 AM

2023-02-25T10:02:31-05:00

I am a Vietnam Vet and have visited an American Legion Post.
What I thought was interesting was that they had uniform
shoulder patches on the wall of probably every Army unit
past and present except one. Who would have thought
that it was the unit that I was in. The Fourth Division.
Their social hall had been rented by a funeral home
Haven't been back.
Sgt Steve Savasky

Response by PO2 Robert W. made Feb 25 at 2023 10:23 AM

2023-02-25T10:23:21-05:00

I don't drink alcohol.
What other purpose is there to going to the posts? Every event, every recruiting function, and every "family fun day" has centered around "social" drinking. I want to be a member because I've been in recovery for a long time and hope to be available to help those who need help. Hard to do when the posts are invariably dark bars where people go and rehash problems rather than work toward solutions.
I go to my local post for their fundraising breakfasts and make sure to throw a bit extra in the tip box hoping it will improve the situation, but I still end up eating my breakfast in a room that smells of stale beer.
I'm open to suggestions.

Response by PO3 Leonard Leverance made Feb 26 at 2023 12:38 PM

2023-02-26T12:38:20-05:00

I am not a joiner, but the AL and VFW posts seem to be more exclusive than inclusive. Instead of patriotic I see Right Wing. I am very wary of both groups. At a time when I was tempted to join, the price was prohibitive.

Response by CPT Kurk Harris made Feb 26 at 2023 2:00 PM

2023-02-26T14:00:22-05:00

I agree. I think they need to be more than just a neighborhood bar for vets to get together and tell war stories, though I am not opposed to this. I think that posts could organize activities to benefit local vets (building ramps, repairing homes, visiting shut-ins, shopping for groceries, getting them in touch with community resources, etc...) to make them more relevant. I also like the idea of being seen outside the veteran communities, and partnering with non-veteran agencies so people see what veterans can bring to the table.

As well as being told that I am not a real veteran, as some have suggested, I have never experienced that but would challenge the very idea that my service (spanning 25 years) was somehow less valuable than that of someone who served in Vietnam.

Awesome question, Major Hoover!

Response by PO2 Robert Lester I I made Feb 26 at 2023 4:49 PM

2023-02-26T16:49:17-05:00

When I 1st joined the VFW in 1986, I was not very welcomed; it was a small town VFW with very few active members. Most of them were from WWII.
I was just a "punk kid" that didn't have to explain how I was eligible.
I was awarded the Navy Expeditionary Medal in 1986 while I served on a submarine.
Fortunately for me, that Post was idled shortly after that happened.
A few years later I moved to a city which was VERY different; although also in a small town, the bulk of the members were Vietnam Vets, and had no issue with my qualifications, and they were very receptive of having young blood coming into their ranks.
The attitude of the members, as well as the community involvement they did, were 100% the reason why I became as involved as I did in that Post and convinced me to become a Life Member.
I can't say anything about the AL as I don't qualify for membership in their ranks, even though they were sending me a "nomination" every year; I get it, there are different rules and my service fell outside their "qualifying events."
I have since moved to another city, roughly 1.5 hours away from my Post, but I haven't changed my home Post simply because I haven't seen the VFW members in the public eye, beyond a Memorial Day Parade...
~~~~~
I've turned to Scouting as my main community service, since they are heavily involved in community service; I was involved in Scouting while at my Post also, enough that I was awarded the VFW Scouter Award.
But I still keep my eyes open for Veteran involvement in my community...
Who knows what the future will bring to me...

Response by SPC Xavier Jaime made Feb 26 at 2023 10:19 PM

2023-02-26T22:19:33-05:00

Last one i visited had drunken bigots that degraded a few of us.

Response by SPC Tamara Trammell made Feb 26 at 2023 10:24 PM

2023-02-26T22:24:13-05:00

The VFW and Legion in my hometown typically serve as landmarks for navigation. I grew up two blocks away from the VFW and still don't know what they do.
As a teenager I was active in our church youth group, had summer job, participated in the Civil Air Patrol, and even did SkillsUSA for a while so I was active in the community, but the only time I saw the VFW out was for parades and Memorial Day. When my AF Retired dad died a couple years ago, I tried calling them for help, but there was no response.

To be appealing, an appeal must be made. Our VFW and Legion are almost silent.

Response by CW5 Roger Jacobs made Feb 27 at 2023 12:20 AM

2023-02-27T00:20:35-05:00

What would make these organizations more appealing? First, a more welcoming atmosphere. The old lines about what was a "real" war have worn pretty thin. Nam guys being hard younger guys because WWII guys were hard on them will not get you younger members. It would also be helpful if someone in the organization could help fill out VA claims. Most of your members have successfully filed VA claims. Why not help out younger vets. DAV is all over the place with ads for this service. Where is the VFW? Most of the VFWs I have visited are more about drinking and war stories than anything else. These are just the views of 40 year Army vet with multiple combat deployments. Maybe you and COL Swegel can figure it out.

Response by Cpl Carlos Flores-Parbol made Feb 27 at 2023 12:48 PM

2023-02-27T12:48:05-05:00

I think the wrong Vets are in charge sometimes. It really starts with the Commanders. They have to set the environment to what they want to accomplish with their Post.

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Feb 27 at 2023 5:36 PM

2023-02-27T17:36:05-05:00

I got so turned off by how many treated “us” younger WAR veterans… and saying how better they were etc. and all they did was sit around and BS… I think doing a little community service or just not down talking would be a start.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2023 6:35 PM

2023-02-27T18:35:36-05:00

Here’s my story. It’s long:

Nearly eight years ago I retired from the U.S. Army. I was already a VFW Life Member. The month I retired I went to the local VFW and asked for an application to transfer from the VFW I had become a member in years ago to this local one. They didn’t have any applications. They gave me a phone number of the membership person. The Vets in the room, which was a combination bar - restaurant - pool hall, were all older than me (and I’m almost 50), and I got derisive looks and even some literal “hmph”s as I said hello to people in the room. It was a jarringly negative experience.

I called the number and left messages for about two months. Didn’t get any response ant all. Forgot about it.

Two years later I was passing by that VFW. I stopped in and asked for an app. They gave me one, I filled it out right there and tried to give it back to the bartender, who had given it to me. I was told that the person to give it to wasn’t around. I told the bartender to give it to the person whenever they got back. I actually heard one of the people there say “I don’t know why he’d bother” in a rude tone. I left and forgot about it.

Two years later (I wish I was kidding) I found this VFW’s Facebook page, and sent them a message asking how to join. I got a message that said “just come down and fill out an application!” In the interest of due diligence I drove over right then and asked for another app. I was told that the membership person was on vacation. I told them I had just spoken with someone FROM THIS POST online. They said that they didn’t know who that could be, and to come back in two weeks. When I took a seat at the bar the person sitting next to me said “do you have a membership here?” I told him I was a VFW Life Member and had been for years. He said “But if you don’t have a membership HERE you can’t just stay here.” I told him “that’s not how VFW Memberships work buddy. If you’re a member you’re a member everywhere, it’s not like the YMCA.” He turned around and actually started asking other people “Did you hear that? He says he can just come in here whenever he wants!” Other people started grumbling about it. I stood up and left. Obviously NOT a good experience.

About six months ago I was driving by there again (it’s very close to my house) and I had the urge to stop so I did. I walked in and asked if there were any Officers I could speak to. Nope. So I told the (different) bartender that I was a Life Member, and that I had wanted to transfer from my old Post but I had had some negative experiences with local VFWs. And I told her about what had happened the last time I was in THIS VFW, without telling her that it was this VFW. Her response was “yeah, that happens sometimes. But I can tell you no one HERE would ever treat you like that.” I left after filling out ANOTHER app, not because I thought that anyone would get back to me but because I wanted to waste their paper.

It’s an insane way to conduct business but it’s FAR from the only Post in which I’ve had this type of thing happen. I drove across the country once and stopped in VFWs in eight States along the way. I was asked for my membership card in all but one of them. No problem. I showed my membership card on my phone from the VFW website and was told that wasn’t good enough in three of them. And in one of them I was told that I had to leave because there was no service and I couldn’t pull up my card though I had my Military ID on me. And in more than a few of the eight I felt like I was being given the cold shoulder because I was not from that Post.

I recently read a book about the history of the Knights Templar. Near the conclusion the author explained that after their primary mission had disappeared (defending the Christian-held parts of the Holy Land and protecting pilgrims), there were repeated attempts to combine the Templars with the Hospitallers, attempts that both groups fought against though it would have been beneficial to both and probably would have saved the Templar Order from its eventual collapse. I feel that the VFW and American Legion are in a similar situation. Their combined numbers, financial and political influence would be amazing. But they both actively fight against this to their detriment. And like the Templars it will lead to at least the VFW’s end of not the end of both organizations.

TLDR; If VFWs continue to treat their Posts like shrines to WWII, the Korean War and the Vietnam War and continue to fight like Hell to keep new people from coming in, then I expect in a handful of years or so my Life Membership card will just be a nice thing to look at in a memory box and remember when the VFW still existed.

Response by SSgt Robert Jorgensen made Feb 27 at 2023 8:25 PM

2023-02-27T20:25:51-05:00

I'm a Post Adjutant here and we are trying to get younger vets to join. I have found they aren't interested or have a what's in it for me attitude. There are programs that we actually need younger vets to help us with. My post at one time had 20,000 members we are now down to 150 and just lost our last WWII vet. We have someone from every branch including Coast Guard.

Response by SGT Jennifer Brande made Feb 28 at 2023 2:28 PM

2023-02-28T14:28:51-05:00

I asked this question: What do folks think actual VSO Organizations do today? Do they ACTUALLY help veterans. I have seen so many that blow smoke up veterans you know what’s and when times are tough, don’t do anything, or talk the talk but can’t walk the walk.

What I see are highly selective cliques, old white men’s clubs, outright frauds, organizations that are scared of youth, women or religious organizations wanting to bring about change and a bunch of soon to be extinct organizations because they drink and tell war stories but don’t evolve with the times.

Helping veterans with disability claims, I have not seen anyone who has worked that hard and gotten people their benefits timely, so can’t say they do that well.

Organizing events to help subsets of veterans, only if your missing limbs, male, or are already out on the street, any maybe if you have food insecurity you might get help. So not actually taking care of all veterans, just the ones that will give them more donations.

And job fairs, yeah only giving preference to those with degrees so NOPE. I see nothing redeeming of the modern VSO model. Someone needs to convince me otherwise, but I want stats proving me wrong.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2023 2:09 PM

2023-03-01T14:09:58-05:00

I'm just a Son of the American Legion but would like to see the Legion reach out to younger people who would support our military personnel through activities to encourage our troops: letter writing, etc.... and make a new connection where one does not exist.

Response by CPT Steven Cunningham made Mar 1 at 2023 3:26 PM

2023-03-01T15:26:39-05:00

I had a post commander in the Legion who was drafted and saw combat say that I who volunteered for service but did not see combat was not a real veteran.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2023 1:50 PM

2023-03-02T13:50:11-05:00

Show me how membership has practical relevance to my life. People's lives are getting busier, most of us don't have time to spend on social clubs.

Response by CPL Amie Mclaughlin made Mar 2 at 2023 7:45 PM

2023-03-02T19:45:39-05:00

As a women veteran who served over seas joining my local VFW was something I looked forward too! Got my DD214 and went to sign up. I was informed that I was welcome to join with the soldiers wife's. I earned the right to join and no way was I going to be delegated to less than what I earned! Needless to say I told them where to place their VFW!

Response by CPL Amie Mclaughlin made Mar 2 at 2023 7:53 PM

2023-03-02T19:53:47-05:00

As a woman Veteran who served over seas ,joining the VFW when I returned home was my goal. I brought my DD214 proud and ready to join. I was told that the wife's Aug. was where as woman I was welcome to join. I served just like ever man and deserved to be treated as they were treated , but no. Needless to say I did not join and will not join do to the disrespect I was shown.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Mar 3 at 2023 6:03 AM

2023-03-03T06:03:11-05:00

Our service to our Country, our Services, our Corps an our men must be honored. Our family members must be welcomed. We, Veterans, do not appreciate the mismatch of identity. If I served then, I am a Veteran and if my spouse served then, I am a family member. However, family members who have served are considered veterans, too. There is no other way to attract.

Response by SP5 Frederick W. Saam made Mar 3 at 2023 9:24 AM

2023-03-03T09:24:38-05:00

I spent 2 1/2 of my 3 year enlistment (1964-1967) in West Germany with the U.S. Army. Obviously that was during the Viet Nam war. I had no say in where they assigned me. When I returned to the U.S and separated from service I made an attempt to join my local, at the time, VFW I was rejected. They said I was not welcome because I had not seen action. That soured me enough to NEVER try to join. I spent 2 1/2 years away from my country, family and loved ones and that counted for nothing by the VFW! As I said, NEVER!

Response by C Marrone made Mar 4 at 2023 10:38 PM

2023-03-04T22:38:57-05:00

Helping to be spouse friendly without rank of military service members might help as well. They need to have their own family support service representative to assist them with concerns of their members.
They also need to have volunteers to set up enjoyable entertainment nights with younger singers like Nikki Briar and her group who travels to play at local VFW halls and who does group country dancing.
Unfortunately you this person is correct about the prior war veterans being less than generous with welcoming younger generations which is a shame because they have a lot of knowledge to share

Response by 2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2023 1:43 PM

2023-03-08T13:43:46-05:00

Personal opinion here. I think if there was more to do relating to the millennial demographic. Why not have a game console and a couch or two? Heck, have another one for the little ones. Another point, dads today spend significantly more time with their kids when compared to previous generations, according to the CDC - National health Stats Report. So folk's comments about being more family oriented might be spot on.

Response by SSgt Edward Collins made Mar 14 at 2023 9:42 PM

2023-03-14T21:42:25-04:00

Back in 1970 VFW did not welcome Vietnam Vets. Their ranks were WWII AND Korea vets. I joined with my father a WWII and Korean War vet. Still I felt a chill from them.

Response by CW5 James B made Mar 31 at 2023 6:07 PM

2023-03-31T18:07:53-04:00

After deleting my paragraph rant, it comes down to this. Not everyone served on the front lines yet people try to make you believe it. The ones in charge being unwelcoming Asshats probably sat on a tarmac the whole time. Still, they were there. Heads of the VFW should have a complaint process that actually gets rid of those in charge that act this way
.

Response by Sgt Robert Elliott made Apr 2 at 2023 9:36 PM

2023-04-02T21:36:38-04:00

I joined the VFW in 1967, soon after returning from Vietnam and get my separation papers. Went to 4 or 5 meetings and listened to them trying to find ways to separate us from our money. That's all it was.....money, money, money! Someone cursed...money in jar. Someone spoke out of turn...money in jar. Look at the speaker wrong....you get the idea. And that's all I heard. After going to those, I quit. Never heard from them again. They didn't care that I was gone and I've stayed gone for the last 56 years!

When I first joined, I felt special. I was the first Nam vet in that chapter. For the first meeting, that was mentioned numerous times since we were now the future of the VFW. That special feeling didn't last long.

Response by CW5 Roger Jacobs made Apr 17 at 2023 4:02 PM

2023-04-17T16:02:48-04:00

I agree with your ideas that they should be more family oriented and more active in community events. I would join either organization if they were. Also, if they were helpful in putting in a VA claim and/or advising on VA benefits. Can anyone recommend a good, welcoming post in the Columbia, South Carolina area?

Response by C Marrone made Apr 18 at 2023 11:33 PM

2023-04-18T23:33:42-04:00

This was also the same for private clubs as the Moose Lodge and the Elks. They had to become more competitive and proactive with events and community as well as supportive family activities to bring in new members

Response by SFC Dean D. made Apr 20 at 2023 3:46 PM

2023-04-20T15:46:34-04:00

Reading some of the response and from personal experience, there's a lot of truth there. I've worked with and even started a chapter of an veterans organization once and found it to be a multilayered problem.
- The organizations always want to increase membership, but do little to effectively make it happen.
- Different generations of veterans don't always feel welcome or comfortable with older/younger veterans. This is (in part) why there is an American Legion when, at the time of its creation, there were already several large veterans organizations. You can see that after every major war a new veterans org was founded by those vets.

Personally, I've decided that I will support veteran orgs but doubt that I'll be much involved with participating in their activities.

Response by SSgt Edgardo Garcia made Apr 29 at 2023 10:26 AM

2023-04-29T10:26:35-04:00

I'm DAV, was in 3 international conflicts, that make me able for all veterans clubs. But is true fact to join local clubs is like the old fellows are like rotary, lions, private country club, shriners the own the pace and to join you must be invited by another old fellow... And then look upon.... So I don't get it. So I don't batter

Response by CW4 Richard Norton made May 8 at 2023 12:35 AM

2023-05-08T00:35:37-04:00

While in Vietnam in 1966 two of us PFCs were in Siagon with two SMGs who suggested we go to the VFW in Siagon. They were checking memberships at the door and we said we would join. The answer is young guys got was we couldn’t because Vietnam was not a war. Haven’t been back since. I have two friends that are members and they were neither in a combat theater but deployed as part of OIF to Germany to back fill for soldiers who were deployed to the combat theater.

Response by Brig Gen Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2023 9:15 AM

2023-05-14T09:15:20-04:00

I am currently working within my VFW to change the Old Codger population. It has been a very difficult upstream swim, but with a core of more recent vets who are competent and motivated, a consistent opposition to old ideas is gaining some traction, if by no other reason than wearing them down.
But yes, it's definitely being completely unreceptive to any change in how we have operated over several decades

Response by CSM Bob Stanek made May 22 at 2023 9:16 PM

2023-05-22T21:16:32-04:00

MAJ Robert H. For me it revolved around three specific areas:

First a quick history on who I am. I've been a lifetime member of the Legion since 1977 or so. The VFW sometime after that. I was qualified for both since I was recognized as a Vietnam Vet at the very end of the conflict.

1) I attended a number of meetings at the local AL meeting and felt like the odd man in the crowd even thought I talked to the others. I'm not a beer drinker and that appeared to offend a couple people because I won't accept their offer.

2) I contacted the AL and offered to volunteer for their Honor Guard. I served as an Honor Guard member on Active duty multiple times and thought I could assist with the local group. I made three different attempts with the Post Commander and NEVER once received a call back.

3) I recommended engagement at on of the meeting to send out monthly emails to members. The Post commander did for about six months and stopped. So now, I know nothing of existing events. That was over three years ago.

4) Finally, I grew up with the American Legion and VFW with my fathers' service. We did multiple family events and picnics. Nothing like it these days. Bring the family in and you'll get new members.

I'm still a member, but sure don't feel like a member.

Bob S
CSM (R)
PS: I agree that there is an attitude of superiority from many of the existing Vietnam Vets. Too bad as we all serviced to protect this great county.

Response by SGT Joseph Stephany made May 23 at 2023 9:46 AM

2023-05-23T09:46:23-04:00

Both groups share similar problems. One when peace breaks out membership in both were closed. American Legion Fixed that about 4 years ago when Congress changed the the requirements for admission to Legion. VFW boots on ground in theater. I am a member of Legion (13 years), Desert Storm area, National Guard called up but not deployed out of country. I am a District Commander that deals with this problem all the time. We have good Posts as well as failing Posts. Commanders who have served way too long with members who are set in their ways....
Our post has Veterans from all conflicts and is very open and inviting. Hell I have posts in my district that I would not want to be a member of.Those posts will die out a slow death. I am having to close 2 posts this year. Frankly the membership got too old to run a posts.
I also know most younger members don't want to run a posts (wedding, showers, events) and give the time needed.
It however is most important to keep these groups working as we advocate for Veterans rights and benefits. I feel as I owe this to all Veterans before me.
Try different Posts till you find one you like and remember like so many Veterans its hard to warm up to new people. Give them a chance.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2023 2:18 PM

2023-05-23T14:18:40-04:00

I went to my local VFW for assistance appealing my VA disability rating and was treated like an outsider. Why would I want anything to do with them? I feel like the older generation running the VA takes care of themselves and their buddies and the younger generation isn't a priority for them.

Response by SFC Tom Hardges made May 24 at 2023 3:39 PM

2023-05-24T15:39:32-04:00

I totally agree the Legion that’s in our city appears to only cater to the older members and I haven’t seen them do any community projects in decades

Response by SSG Jason Clark made May 24 at 2023 5:32 PM

2023-05-24T17:32:01-04:00

How about both organizations be more than just a bar?

Response by TSgt Robert Wade made May 25 at 2023 3:45 AM

2023-05-25T03:45:55-04:00

I served from 1985-2009. And I was deployed multiple times along with a year remote assignment to Korea. But I have zero desire to join a VFW or American Legion even though I have gotten letters in the mail from both wanting me to join. If I want to hang out with guys that just want to tell me how their Vietnam service trumps everyone else then I would join the VFW. And if I wanted to join membership required bar then I could join the Moose Lodge for free since my sister in law is a bartender at one. The VFW and American Legion only want your money and don't care about you.

Response by PV2 Ricardo Herrera made May 25 at 2023 10:53 PM

2023-05-25T22:53:21-04:00

I joined the Freemasons. I did not serve in war time. So I don’t feel a VFW post was right for me. I never considered the AL but I am fully committed to freemasonry now.

Response by PO3 Deborah Rosen made May 28 at 2023 1:16 PM

2023-05-28T13:16:43-04:00

Our local VFW post is an empty hall that rarely gets used for anything other than the monthly official meeting. But there are daily meetings of the old men in the basement bar that looks like a speakeasy, with walls yellowed either from the dim lighting or the decades of cigarette smoke trapped down there, to drink, smoke, play cards and bullshit. If there's a POC in there, I haven't met them.

When I walked in there, I was the ONLY woman who was under 60, and the only woman who wasn't behind the bar serving drinks. You can imagine how uncomfortable I felt, very quickly.

The old-white-mens-basement-bar look really isn't the best way to get veterans today from a military that has embraced diversity as a strength.

Response by Sgt R H made Jun 7 at 2023 5:47 PM

2023-06-07T17:47:08-04:00

OK, so I am also a Scout leader, and if you look at the membership curve for the VFW, the American Legion, the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, the Elks Lodge, the whatever the organization is - they have the same membership curve since the '70's - downward. This isn't a VFW or American Legion issue - it's a cultural issue. People are not interested in being part of a 'service' organization - they don't want to 'belong' to a group that does things, they want to do things themselves or do nothing. Look at the donation curve for charities - you will see the exact same curve. There has been a deep cultural change in America, and the veteran groups are feeling it the same as the others. Not sure what the implications are, but

Response by CPL James S. made Jun 10 at 2023 10:47 PM

2023-06-10T22:47:29-04:00

Consistency, fairness and lack of hypocrisy come to mind.

I tried to join VFW and American Legion at the same time my friend did and was rejected while he was accepted. We both had the exact same careers at the time and I might have had a deployment more than he did. I watched who was and wasn't accepted during the next decade and noticed that everywhere I went it was more of a popularity contest than anything else. If you were buddies with someone inside, you were in.

Over the past 20 years, I've become more comfortable with isolation. We have a group of combat veterans out here in the wilds that take care of each other just like when we were on active duty. Who needs a faux club when you got the real?

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Jun 15 at 2023 4:37 PM

2023-06-15T16:37:40-04:00

Combine the 2 together. American legion anyone can join as in if you havent been overseas or not. VFW you have to been deployed. Some have never been deployed and could never join the VFW. I persoanlly have joined the American Legion and would love to join the VFW but can't cause I have never been deployed.

Response by PO1 Mike Wallace made Jun 18 at 2023 8:44 PM

2023-06-18T20:44:49-04:00

The problem dates back many decades and is disgusting today as much as it was after WW2 Vets came home. It needs to change or it will die because us Vietnam vets are getting older and can't do what we once did.
As far as female vets go all that's been said is correct. I'm married to a Navy Veteran and she can tell stories about being unwelcomed and seen as undeserving. She got hit on by older members constantly as if they thought they had the right. We met thru the Legion and married a few years later. More than a few times I've had to have a come to Jesus conversations with members about their conduct.
I've been a member of 3 different posts and on the executive committee of all three and commander in two for 2 years each. My post has worked from a new direction the last two years and our membership has shot up.
We serve veterans and their families, especially surviving spouses. I have a certified service officer and VA enrollment/travel office people in my Post quarterly. We do a free breakfast quarterly for vets and their families quarterly.
We produce a Post newsletter every month and send it to all those with emails and to those that stop by. Our meetings are structured as they are suppose to be but welcome and encourage members input. Our executive committee meetings are open to all. We have no secrets and prove it.
If you want to grow be transparent, welcoming, and inclusive. Get your members to strike up conversations with those who are wearing a hat indicating they are vets. Invite them to come to a meeting and have dinner if you serve it at meetings.
There are NO female veterans, black veterans, Hispanic veterans, etc. There are only veterans and until you do business with that in mind your Post will die a slow death. If you don't want to join your local post, contact me I'll be happy to have you as a member!

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Jul 23 at 2023 6:34 PM

2023-07-23T18:34:41-04:00

Nothing, they are on the way out.
I was a member for about a year.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2023 10:14 PM

2023-07-23T22:14:13-04:00

There's really nothing these organizations can do to make me want to join them. They don't offer anything really to gwot vets. And not paying money for their company. My dues were paid with 20 years, 3 tours, 5 natural disasters.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2023 10:21 PM

2023-07-23T22:21:09-04:00

Last time I went to a VFW it was full of people smoking cigarettes like there was no tommorrow. Each area was a cloud of stench. Granted this was back in 2015. Not sure if things have changed since then.

Response by SFC Donald Lockwood made Aug 12 at 2023 11:18 AM

2023-08-12T11:18:29-04:00

I've been a legion member since '86, enlisted in '68/ 3 yrs. After my Gulf War service, my brother said "NOW YOU'RE A VETERAN", sad, Don L USA RET

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2023 9:01 PM

2023-08-16T21:01:14-04:00

I belong to both the VFW and American Legion.
Have a life membership in the VFW and my first meeting was my last one.
I was introduced and the COBIC - Cranky Old Bastard In Charge - immediately said "it's about time you young guys start pulling your weight around here".
Yeah, whatever dude.
American Legion was ok and I was good with volunteering for some work projects around the Post, couple of moneymaker events and things like that.
Post is a little rural one and has about 35 members but they just kept hitting up a couple of us for all of this stuff and I got burned out pretty quickly of that nonsense.
Tried another one and it was a bunch of old guys arguing about how to spend money.
I stay a national member as I like the magazine and info about veterans issues.

Response by SrA Christopher Snell made Aug 17 at 2023 5:39 AM

2023-08-17T05:39:40-04:00

Both are places to drink cheaply. I went into one to join as my feather did when he came home from ww2. So when I came home from Nam I decided that's the place where my brothers/sister's hang out. Walked in and the old assholes at the bar asked "What do you want kid" I said to join the VFW one guy looked up from his beer and said what foreign war were you in??? I said I just got back from 16 month in NAM..He said that's no fucking war..it was a conflict ..NEVER SET FOOT IN ANY OF THOSE PLACES AGAIN .....NEVER!!!

Response by MSgt Matthew Burke made Aug 17 at 2023 7:46 AM

2023-08-17T07:46:08-04:00

I was the youngest American Legion President in the state of FL back in 2017. Seeing a country icon dying in my town led me to step up to do something about it. After pitching my vision to the "elders" they voted me in. Together we restored the post, built a partnership and relocated a foodbank to the property, and brought the community together to install a community peach orchard. Afterwards, several of the elder Legion members started drama and the past Commander wanted his seat back - so I gave it to him.
One of the main reasons why the new generation doesn't want to join the older generation of Veterans is because we're tired of military politics, tired of being dismissed and treated insignificantly, and most of us are more interested in adventuring than sitting around drinking, smoking, and telling war stories. Albeit, the BIGGEST reason isn't the American Legion, VFW, or the like...it's because our generation has commitment issues. That's why we began requiring a membership to participate in adventures with the nonprofit 10 CAN, Inc. Our goal is to solve complex problems with a back-to-basics approach. Restoring ones' ability and desire to commit is helping prevent suicides, saving marriages, building careers, overcoming homelessness, enhancing health and morale, and reviving patriotism.

Response by SSG Ken Potts made Aug 17 at 2023 8:03 AM

2023-08-17T08:03:37-04:00

Actually do something for Veterans, instead of always asking for money.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2023 2:58 PM

2023-08-17T14:58:29-04:00

I joined a local American Legion and left after a month. I'm female, served in the US Air Force from 1972 to 1977 during the Viet Nam era but never went to "Nam". The comment about oh, but you never went to "Nam" is absolutely spot on. The fact that I was a woman meant they wanted me to serve as secretary or get involved with the "Ladies Auxiliary". I volunteered at a spaghetti feed and it was pretty condescending (We've got it covered). I also checked into the Band of Brothers chapter here and asked "why don't you make it the Band of Brothers and Sisters?" Chuckles from the member staffing his recruitment table at a local event. "Of course, you're welcome." Sure. Also, the American Legion with its military pomp and circumstance meeting exercise is pretty droll. I support honoring the MIAs but, beyond that, I left the service and that saluting/marching crap behind. I think it's stale and unnecessary. Local events? How about a kids' contest to "prove your patriotism" by writing an essay? Geezus. MAGA supporters have ruined that one. The AL needs an overhaul.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2023 3:02 PM

2023-08-17T15:02:36-04:00

I joined a local American Legion and left after a month. I'm female, served in the US Air Force from 1972 to 1977 during the Viet Nam era but never went to "Nam". The comment about oh, but you never went to "Nam" is absolutely spot on. The fact that I was a woman meant they wanted me to serve as secretary or get involved with the "Ladies Auxiliary". I volunteered at a spaghetti feed and it was pretty condescending (We've got it covered). I also checked into the Band of Brothers chapter here and asked "why don't you make it the Band of Brothers and Sisters?" Chuckles from the member staffing his recruitment table at a local event. "Of course, you're welcome." Sure. Also, the American Legion with its military pomp and circumstance meeting exercise is pretty droll. I get honoring the MIAs but, beyond that, I left the service and that saluting/marching crap behind. I think the organizations are stale and unnecessary. The AL community minded event involves a student essay contest to "prove your patriotism"? Geezus. MAGA supporters have ruined that one. The AL needs an overhaul.

Response by SPC Patricia Hunter Trujillo made Aug 17 at 2023 4:14 PM

2023-08-17T16:14:37-04:00

As a Woman Veteran, the male dominated environment is not welcoming to females. And it's even worse than when I was Active Duty as back in the Army I had a job to do, and we worked as a team. For me, it just feels like a "good old boys club."

Response by 1stSgt Daryl Allen made Aug 17 at 2023 7:13 PM

2023-08-17T19:13:19-04:00

I attempted numerous times to join American Legions both local and national and never received a response from either. I am a Vietnam Era Veteran and didn't serve in Country or Theater. Local post were more active to the drinking community and didn't accept those of us who didn't drink. I lost faith in the post. They truly need to become more attuned to family and community.

Response by CPL Amie Mclaughlin made Aug 18 at 2023 12:00 AM

2023-08-18T00:00:26-04:00

All responses below are correct. I do not drink but I once went to our VFW because they had live music and dancing. They no longer have dances but continue to have drinking.

Response by MSgt Joseph Green made Aug 18 at 2023 2:08 AM

2023-08-18T02:08:19-04:00

I did not join the VFW for the same reason I quit the Elks. Both organizations are mostly chain-smoking drunks sitting around reliving the war. The Ruidoso VVA is morphing into the United Veterans of New Mexico, an all-inclusive, family-oriented, service organization that is growing while the other veteran groups are dying. It should not matter when or where you served, your rank, or your job title if you earned and wore the uniform honorably.

Response by SSG(P) Edward Richardson made Aug 18 at 2023 11:36 AM

2023-08-18T11:36:41-04:00

I went to join the VFW once. walked in carrying my pistol and was told I couldn't carry there so I walked out... why should I want to join an organization where the first thing they ask of me is to give up my rights?

Response by SPC Thomas Mitchell made Aug 18 at 2023 12:36 PM

2023-08-18T12:36:43-04:00

I served 84-88, the "Cold War Era" doesn't fall into the accepted time frame for the AL.

Response by CPT Stephen Feldman made Aug 19 at 2023 12:36 PM

2023-08-19T12:36:53-04:00

I have 8 years enlisted service and 8 years commissioned service. My last MOS was 31542 and I can prove everything I say by one of my DD214's or my VA statement of disability. To my knowledge I am the only man to have been hanged by the neck outside a C-130 at 1250 going east and lived to tell the tale.

I've been a member of the American Legion for 35 years and have never been to any event or meeting. I've been a member of the DAV a lot longer and a Life member, again never attended a meeting or event. I joined both because at the time they representated me in front of the VA. I joined the VFW for one year, that was the end. I didn't join The Special Forces Association because when they started if you didn't have 10 years wearing a Green Beret you were expected to sit and keep your mouth shut. I didn't join the Special Operations Association (SOA) because when Jim Butler (in the beginning the man who started the organization) asked me to join, I was in and out of the hospital recovering.

I have been involved in Veterans issues for many years in conjunction with the VA and the County Veterans Office. I was never looking for comrads or socializing from any of the organizations. I always wanted to inprove what we as a group of Veterans got and that is what I have worked for. I have fought the VA for almost 50 years now to get beter benifits and get them faster! I have been 100% Disabled for more than 30 years and have a 407.8 pound electric wheelchair but can only drive it around the block I live on for as many times as it will go until it runs out of juice because I don't qualify for the stipend the VA pays for a car to carry the chair! The question is, am I mean enough to outlast the VA or will I have to sue the VA to get the money I need to get the car. If I buy a car to move the chair then I lose the ability to get the stipend because I have proved I didn't need the $24k to buy the car.

Response by SSG Steven Gotz made Aug 19 at 2023 11:02 PM

2023-08-19T23:02:50-04:00

I am not eligible for the VFW, and honestly, if I had ever been asked to join the American Legion, I would have considered it. But as a POG, I am not sure if I would actually be welcome.

So, the answer is simple. Ask veterans to join. Make it clear that even the people in supply, or who fixed jeep radios, served their country and are welcome.

I have a veteran plate on my car here in Arizona. If someone approached me in a parking lot and asked if I was a member or had considered joining, I would likely give it consideration.

Response by SPC Eileen Keller made Aug 20 at 2023 4:49 AM

2023-08-20T04:49:48-04:00

It depends on the post and who the leadership is and what they are doing. I visited an American Legion post in Pompano Beach, FL several times and was very impressed with the events, regular schedule, and members. Then I moved, I visited the local post here (elsewhere in FL) and it was mostly auxiliary and they could not be bothered with visitors - we were an interruption. So...both myself and my friend left and haven't gone back.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Aug 20 at 2023 9:22 AM

2023-08-20T09:22:21-04:00

I can't speak to what attitudes might exist in these groups because I have never been a member. I'm just not a joiner. It would seem to me that a veteran is a veteran regardless of which war they were in or not in. Every one who serves is putting their personal safety at risk, even in peace time. Training is often not a video game.

It could be that today's vet is putting their families first and the way we are currently raising our kids where their every minute is programed into group activities the parents have no time for outside committments. Kids used to have a lot of free time where they made their own fun with pick-up ball game or just exploring their neighborhoods without the need of parents hovering nearby.

It also seems that in most organisations there are about 10% who are heavily involved in all activities of the group, another 20% who are not very involved at all and the rest will participate if they have the time and they have an interest in the activity. Could be that the 10% who are the leaders just got tired of leading and the 70% are too busy with their own stuff to move on up.

Response by SSG James Stodola made Aug 20 at 2023 3:01 PM

2023-08-20T15:01:34-04:00

I have seen a lot of issues here with these organizations not being friendly, not accepting that Desert Storm "was not a real war" and the like. Hmm, well a war is jus that;
WAR
a
(1)
: a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations
(2)
: a period of such armed conflict

This basically what was happening in the Persian gulf, a war. I have not found anywhere that describes any specific conditions or stipulations on how long, how bloody, or how emotionally devastating a conflict must be to "qualify" as a "real war". The negativity that is being experienced by potential members seems to me to be the result of arrogance, anger, specifically by Vietnam vets which I think results from the poor treatment and open hostilities they received upon returning home, and they are still angry, for good reason, but to take this out on vets of subsequent conflicts, is unacceptable on all levels. We all had the same mission, same focus, same goals when we served. It is flat out disrespectful of those aforementioned vets to act this way. At this point I do not blame the new vets for declining to join. As for myself i have never been a joiner in the physical sense, I find my self being able to good for many through other efforts. I have nothing against joining but if I were to get that sort of reception and disrespect, I would walk away for sure. Changes have to be made if they are to gain more membership and I think that moving towards the family oriented tack might just be a better route. I will still continue my efforts to find and help vets and their families one on one which works better for me.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Aug 21 at 2023 12:15 AM

2023-08-21T00:15:22-04:00

Spot on Major Hoover! American Legions are suffering the fate of many other organizations - among them, the Masonic organizations (Shriners, etc), Lions Clubs, military unit associations - the list goes on and on. Most of these organizations are filled and governed by an older crowd (my age and a little younger) who do not have children in high school and below. That kind of population tends to want to swap war stories, drink a little beer, and not get to involved outside of their focus groups. Younger men and women have families and are involved in activities that include and welcome their children. To make American Legions more appealing, we need to see a change in leadership and mind-set. Involvement in community activities that incorporate the entire family is a good starting point.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2023 1:15 PM

2023-08-21T13:15:11-04:00

I've been to a few legions and a few VFWs. The best American Legion I've been to was in Huntly IL. It was completely remodeled and super friendly. I would walk in daily and me and the 3 older vets would all talk shit and laugh while buying each other drinks.. I moved and I can not find anything even close now.. they are run down and not welcoming.

Response by SP5 David Moss made Aug 21 at 2023 1:35 PM

2023-08-21T13:35:44-04:00

Our American Legion Post 626 in Birdsboro, PA went through a transition a few years ago where a younger generation ran and took office at the Post (Legionaries that own the buildings) and Home Association (Runs the business of the bar, employees and all licensing, etc.). We were too aware of the older folks not wanting to change anything and we were going to change things. Our intent was to modernize our community presence and make our Social Quarters more fun and family friendly. All of our entities (SALs, Aux and Riders) contribute quite well to this effort. For a smaller Post, we give back to the community to the tune of $100,000.00 or so a year. including helping other veteran's organizations around us. It is an honor to be part of this fine organization. Now, if we could just stop smoking in the bar area, I think we would attract many more members. My last great act as commander last year was to take a poll about that. The results were exactly 50-50. We shall see. My understanding that that is a big deal to the next younger generation to want to show up and sign up. Thoughts?

Response by CPL Stephen Hemmert made Aug 21 at 2023 7:47 PM

2023-08-21T19:47:06-04:00

The VFW will never get me to sit down in any post. My wife and I were standing in-line in mid-town Manhattan in the spring of 1972 waiting to buy tickets to see The Godfather. Two WW2 VFW guys were pushing its red poppies. I respectfully declined, "No Thank You!" I was still at my military discharge weight (9/5/1971); 175 and 6'2". He looked me up and down and called me "A Mother Fucking Draft Dodger!" I do not remember drawing my fist behind me, but my wife, who is a army veteran (Women's Army Corp, 1969-1971) grabbed it. I was speechless. His words turned me off the VFW. I suspect I drew his wrath because I was the only guy waiting in line who actually looked like he was military material.
In 1976 my beautiful wife, son and I relocated to western Washington State. In Jly 1977 my father-in-law, infantrymen from Korean War, took me for a beer to is post; "Ray Roberts" on McKinley Ave, Tacoma where four WW2 vets belittled me; telling me I was in a "pea shooter war." My father-in-law was so embarrassed he transferred his drinking to the local Eagles.

So, this 11B20 with Purple Heart with Oak Leaf Cluster, medevaced from Nam will never join the VFW, nor any other service organization.

Response by Maj Gordon Hunter made Aug 21 at 2023 11:20 PM

2023-08-21T23:20:35-04:00

Member of the AL here, but the constant centrism towards "God" and Christianity keeps me at arms' length. With so many who have served of so many faiths (and no faiths), it's off-putting to make Christianity central to the AL.

Can't say on the VFW. Always thought it was a place for old guys to drink

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Aug 22 at 2023 9:22 AM

2023-08-22T09:22:49-04:00

Because I wasn't a "combat veteran" I joined the American Legion. I very quickly found out that is was a place for old curmudgeons to hang out,smoke,and drink. I was very interested in the Legion Riders, but they would have a meeting, drink heavily and then go ride their bikes. In the biking community this is common knowledge, and if you aren't a hard corps drinker you stay away from them. This isn't true of all posts I know, but perception is everything. I would very much like to be a member of a veterans group the accepts and acknowledges all veteran contributions and then does more than sit around talking about the past and do something good!

Response by LTC Dave Leppanen made Aug 22 at 2023 10:10 AM

2023-08-22T10:10:36-04:00

I'm a member of both organizations. In Minnesota, at least, the groups tried to recruit new members. When our unit returned from deployments, VFW and American Legion members were around if you wanted to join. Either the clubs are thriving or they are dead. Been to a couple of Legion clubs near my home, they are empty. Met my buddy at Legion club about ten years ago. We were the only ones in the place besides the bartender. We closed it down at 2000. Visited a Legion club in the Peoria, AZ a few times. Nice large building but for the most part it was empty. Server was nice enough to laminate our cards however. The VFWs I've been to in my area. seem to be doing better. However, when I read the Letters To The Editor in VFW Magazine, there seems to be a lot of hostility toward articles on well-being. Finally, there's a smaller pool of people to draw from. It's not like the 70s and 80s when more people were serving.

Response by SSgt Frank Martin made Aug 22 at 2023 1:44 PM

2023-08-22T13:44:39-04:00

Too cliquish....making them more family, activity orientated would help.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2023 2:49 PM

2023-08-22T14:49:33-04:00

I understand LTC Charlie Brown' s statement and other women veterans about not being considered as Veterans by our Male Counterparts. It's quite insulting.

We are forming our own Women Veterans group out here and you would think the VFW's and American Legion's would provide us space to meet without charging us as we go through the expensive process of becoming a non-profit. Nope! We have to pay. Yet we are expected to help every single VFW and American Legion Post out when they have events but help us is too much trouble for them. Do the guys in the VFW and American Legion Post step up and fight for the Women Veterans. No! They could care less.

Boy's its time to get your butts in gear and start respecting your fellow Women Veterans and step up and fight for them as they have dome for you.

Response by SPC Steve Willis, PhD made Aug 22 at 2023 4:03 PM

2023-08-22T16:03:22-04:00

Frankly, I can’t think of anything. My impressions of such organizations is a bunch of old codgers sitting around at a bar, getting schnockered and swapping sea stories (as our naval vets would term them). I’ve got better things to do with my time!

Response by SPC Matthew Birkinbine made Aug 22 at 2023 5:22 PM

2023-08-22T17:22:42-04:00

Scholarships for those of us who don’t have it in the budget to justify monthly or lifetime memberships.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2023 8:02 PM

2023-08-22T20:02:22-04:00

Im in the VFW...remember its a club made up a shared experience. Just like the military you probably won't like all of the people there. I dont attend regularly because I cant see what it offers. I get all of the socializing I need at home. In the past I think they mostly offered a drinking crowd. If you're not into that then it probably won't appeal for you. I'm not sure there's a fix to make it more appealing unless the culture would drastically change and they had a video game night.?.

Response by SPC Geoffrey Jenkins made Aug 24 at 2023 7:55 AM

2023-08-24T07:55:05-04:00

Good morning to all,
that is the problem all over the country when trying to get new members to join,there are hundreds of thousands of veterans who served during the Gulf,OIF,OEF Wars that are young enough to take up the numbers.The biggest problem is that the older members are set in their ways about the new generation of younger veterans willing to change.If we don't change the way things are now we will see more VFW and American Legion Posts closing.

Response by CPL Edward Barton made Aug 24 at 2023 9:00 AM

2023-08-24T09:00:43-04:00

I’m a veteran of the Gulf War. And the American Legion that I am a member of never has shunned me when I go in.
So if you are in the Huntsville Alabama area. Come on over to the American Legion for some lunch and a few beers.
But if you don’t mind there are people who may not talk to you conversationally. But give it some time and you’ll feel. The place become a safe and comfortable place to be to relax in.
Just press the button to get in the door.
American Legion on Drake Avenue, Huntsville Alabama.

Response by SGT Victor Negrete made Aug 24 at 2023 12:20 PM

2023-08-24T12:20:32-04:00

AS A VIETNAM COMBAT VET , I WOULD GET A LOT A GRUFF FROM THE GREATEST GENERATION WW2 VETS SOME NEVER SERVED OVERSEAS OR WERE IN COMBAT. THATS WHAT I REMEMBER MOST , ITS A GENERATIONAL THING. AM LEGION AND OTHER ENTITIES SHOULD BE MORE SUPPORTIVE FOR ALL VETS. MY OPINION.

Response by SGT Jeff Steele (Ret.) made Aug 24 at 2023 1:38 PM

2023-08-24T13:38:38-04:00

As a member of my local VFW post for the past 18 years, since my last deployment to Iraq in 2005, I have witnessed many positive changes in my post. My post was like many of the ones mentioned in this comments, but instead of not going, I stuck with it and worked to change the perception. I filled many of the positions from just a member to a trustee up to the commander then settled into the quartermaster seat for the last 12 years. Our post is in a rural community and our biggest problem is getting the younger generations to join. It is not so much the post to blame but just life itself. To explain, several reasons for that is many of the younger soldiers, after leaving their hometown, do not return to their small rural hometown. They stay in the bigger cities with everything they have to offer. If they do return, they have families and are busy with work, kids sports programs and the many social media platforms to entertain them. I've seen our post drizzle down for 159 members on the rolls to 90, mostly due to their passing. 80% of current rolls are 78 years old or older. So with the younger generation not returning home to join are not participating if they are home because they have to live their life, the writing is on the wall for our post if we cannot get new members.

I think for most VFW post across the nation have made positive changes over the years but it is ultimately up to the younger generations of veterans to join, stick with the post to make those positive changes that need to take place for others in their generations to want to join. If veterans just visit once, don't like what they see and never return, how will things change. It's kind a of like politics, if we keep voting in those elected officials who are not making positive changes in our community or nation and not getting involved to see those changes happen, then how will they ever change. No one likes changes but it must happen to improve any organization, but if we don't want to be a part of the organization to help it change, then we really cannot complain when it doesn't.

It doesn't matter what veteran organization it is, whether it be the VFW, American Legion, DAV, it needs members because the membership numbers of these organizations help them lobby for our veterans rights and benefits in Congress. Without them, our collective voices would be few and the government could brush us aside.

I encourage all veterans to join an organization, help make those changes you wish to see. Be part of the solution not part of the problem. As we have been often told as soldiers during field exercises or deployments, leave the training areas better than when you got there!

Response by MSgt Brandy Epps made Aug 24 at 2023 2:01 PM

2023-08-24T14:01:03-04:00

I somewhat agree, but I think the age difference and what the older vets went through is why they connected the way they did. My generation, joined in 96- retired 2017was the last of the Legion and VFW group, some if not all, but more than the younger ones. I also believe that the reasons for older vets joining was for safety of our nation and brother and sisterhood, gave them a special bond and I can relate. Most younger people do not join for the same reasons, most join for money to attend universities and others do not join because they view the military as deceptive and unjust in its missions along with the wars mostly Iraq and Afghanistan. Most younger ones have not been through what older vets have, WWs and Vietnam and. imo, there is also no real closeness in some branches, AF, since I was, like before. These things make a huge difference in why the groups were created in the first place. I do not believe there is enough to bridge that gap and differences. just look at most of the civilian workforce and how some younger people are functioning, they are buying into what we did, not all bad. sadly for us older vets and younger vets and in the civilian world of young and old, there needs to be a balance of responsibility to defend this country we all live in and enjoy it’s freedoms and between following guidance blindly without any questioning

Response by MSgt Brandy Epps made Aug 24 at 2023 2:04 PM

2023-08-24T14:04:04-04:00

I also understand and have been told I’m not a real vet, because first I am AF, even though I served in Afghanistan and did a lot of things that most of them haven’t done. I wasn’t disrespectful I just let three know who I was about and made a decision to leave or go and let them be.

Response by SP5 Kenneth Smith made Aug 24 at 2023 2:19 PM

2023-08-24T14:19:04-04:00

Our 5-year-old re-chartered VFW post has to meet at the Moose Lodge because they don't have enough income to get a location of their own. At every meeting, the Commander tells us we need more fund raising. At a recent ball park Military Appreciation night, I couldn't find another post member or VFW booth and wound up watching the game by myself. Posts need to make an effort to get together OTHER than to raise money and sponsor activities (including family) that interest young, middle and senior members. And be relevant in your community.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Aug 24 at 2023 2:51 PM

2023-08-24T14:51:47-04:00

I agree with everything the Major said and like to add one more. RENOVATION. Most of these buildings are very old and outdated. The few I visited had the feel of a DIVE Bar. Not very welcoming.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2023 7:47 AM

2023-08-25T07:47:00-04:00

I was told that I was eligible for an "associate" membership, I gave the bar tender her beer back and left. They can close for all I care. Seriously, All I had to do was read what everyone else said below and immediately concur with most. My old man, U.S Army Korea, even treated it that way. I think the "boomers" named themselves the greatest generation.....So I'll simply refer anyone else to do the same. Say's it all...I'm a Cold War Vet, I'm eligible for nothing, I'm accepted no where, ....so be it!
Fuck them back!

Response by TSgt David Marti made Aug 25 at 2023 9:32 AM

2023-08-25T09:32:08-04:00

"The older members are often not welcoming either... " Well there you have it! You answered your own question! I went to the local posts of both organizations and was basically made to feel not only did my 20 years of service did not count, but also my Gulf War service was a joke to the members. I believe it is these attitudes that are keeping younger vets from joining.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Aug 25 at 2023 11:07 AM

2023-08-25T11:07:51-04:00

Start by stopping the alienation of the non combat Arms MOS's. The enemy doesn't ask what your MOS is before they fire on you. As far as the post that I'm a member of, the only advertisement of its existence is the sign on the front of the building. When you get prospective members to sign up or renew their membership, get their email address. That way you can keep them informed of the on going events

Response by Sgt Ron Bowen made Aug 25 at 2023 3:59 PM

2023-08-25T15:59:26-04:00

Cut out the smoking!

Response by MSG Brian Wiscott made Aug 25 at 2023 5:13 PM

2023-08-25T17:13:27-04:00

If the older members are hassling the newer members they have 2 ways of dealing with it, One way is to bring it to the attention of the officers and let them take care of the older members, 2 don't be afraid to stand up for yourself, if you do they will ether back off and treat you better or it could make it worse, that being said at that point you can go back to bringing it to attention of the officers in charge, they don't want members being pushed out so they should handle it for you.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2023 10:32 AM

2023-08-26T10:32:09-04:00

Those groups are created after WW2 and have been irrelevant since text messaging, toll free long distance calls, emails, social media and this site exist. Don't need a moose club for veterans when we can all talk to each other here. Just my thoughts.

Response by SSgt Richard Nagley made Aug 26 at 2023 12:13 PM

2023-08-26T12:13:38-04:00

Right on Brother. When are us Nam Vets going to learn. Just think, What will VVA (Vietnam Veterans of America) do when the last of US (I'm a Nam Vet) die?

Response by SP5 Joyce Eikenberry made Aug 26 at 2023 3:53 PM

2023-08-26T15:53:36-04:00

You are definitely not a "real soldier" if you're a woman veteran attempting to join. The first question out of their mouths is "Women's Auxiliary?" <snort!>I did join, and for a couple of years I attended each and every meeting. I don't, and I don't even go to the parties as most non-attending people do. They have to realize that we women served as well. After all, many men never saw combat either.

Response by SN Daniel Reinhardt made Aug 26 at 2023 8:14 PM

2023-08-26T20:14:04-04:00

Free for 100% permanently disabled veterans

Response by 1SG David Freed made Aug 27 at 2023 4:47 PM

2023-08-27T16:47:07-04:00

Both the VFW and American Legion are "drinking" clubs. I don't drink, so I don't join or go.

Response by CSM Jerry Weldon made Aug 29 at 2023 9:32 PM

2023-08-29T21:32:47-04:00

Not joining seems to be a trend in today's society. Look around at other organizations and their memberships are going down also. Re the older members; they are cliquese to some degree. I remember returning from VN and going into a VFW club, not the open arms for a fellow veteran that I was expecting. As a (R) CSM the attitude towards me is completely different. I totally agree that attitudes towards all veterans should be the same. We are a very small percentage of our country's population and we should support all veterans and families and base these organizations on camaraderie and not on war stories.

Response by LTC James Shannon Crow made Aug 31 at 2023 2:50 PM

2023-08-31T14:50:31-04:00

My VFW Post activily recruits younger members, and we do it by being a family friendly post and getting involved with the schools and community activities. We had to overcome “but, we’ve never done it that way!” and “How DARE you change things!!”, and actually lost a long time member. But today, 26% of our members are 23 - 45 years old and 41% are under 60. In the last 5 years, 56% of our new recruits are 23-55 years old. It takes time, effort, and including our long term members. We use them in a “senior NCO” status and put the younger ones to work. It helped when our Nam vets got comfortable with the younger ones and could start talking about when they came home.

Response by SGT Ron Harper made Sep 1 at 2023 2:53 PM

2023-09-01T14:53:43-04:00

I belong to both organizations and what ticks me off about them is they won't stand up for the liberties that they fought to preserve. Iowa was installing an unconstitutional smoking ban several years back. These organizations fell in agreement with the state on this unconstitutional collective law. This is when I ended my support for these organizations. There was dirty tricks played by not only the state government to pass this law, but also theses' organizations, particularly the VFW.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2023 11:02 PM

2023-09-02T23:02:07-04:00

I agree with all the posts. I joined the Legion Post my grandfather was the former manager and Life Member. But I had my location changed but not by me.
I am a three time combat decorated Vet and used VFW as my VA VSO and yet I can’t seem to find the local post. Maybe if we had all of these places more family friendly and oriented….. then we might have stronger posts. Just a thought

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Sep 4 at 2023 10:41 PM

2023-09-04T22:41:51-04:00

Sound like how they were treated by the WWII and Korea Vets when they first joined

Response by PO1 Robert Ryan made Sep 5 at 2023 11:19 AM

2023-09-05T11:19:04-04:00

When I retired (June 1989) I went to a VFW where I lived then (Sacramento, CA). I presented my DD-214 to the member rep. He looked at it, and said "Vietnam the one we lost". I took my DD-214 from him and left. I did not experience that with the American Legion of DAV.

Response by CW4 Chris McCarty made Sep 7 at 2023 2:19 PM

2023-09-07T14:19:30-04:00

The age of members is certainly part of the issue; another is the culture. The stereotypical smoke-filled bar in the basement or side room isn't all that appealing to young veterans who want to be out, meet singles, network, or bring a young family. Yes, many VSO facilities are smoke-free, but the stain (physical and psychological) of decades permeates, and going to the legion to drink isn't a socially desirable situation. Perception is reality.

Many vets today endured far too many years in an organization that existed in far too political a sphere. The left-right influences are all-pervasive and not desired in a social setting. Constant shop / VA talk is not sought after either. The vet may come for help with the VA, but after the help, what does the VSO offer? Today's veterans are more individually driven and looking for the ability to contribute in social ways on their terms.

VSO's would be best served by partnering with units, local companies, and reserve component units, offering events and services outside of the standard veteran/VA offerings. Host or sponsor town fairs, golf tournaments, or concerts. Advertise in local schools, including colleges, offering volunteer service hours towards their education requirements. Be seen supporting the community in times of crisis, opening (physically, not enrollment) the doors to kids and families for sports and games like a community center.

Essentially the VSO has to be an active, modern, and vibrant member of there community.

Response by SN Shirley Symon made Sep 13 at 2023 12:42 PM

2023-09-13T12:42:32-04:00

As a FEMALE veteran who served in the NAVY from June 1986 July 1990 I was not eligible to join until October 2019. Then COVID stopped the world. When looking for an American Legion Post I wanted an "active one". The only active one was an hour and a half away. So another female veteran who was elected Post Commander and them promptly shunned and ignored started a NEW Post. And I am now a proud member of the American Legion. I am Post Historian and three of our officers are DISTRICT officers including myself as district historian. We are active in our community. We have received some negative comments and feelings about why we started a new post instead of going out of town from another CIVILIAN military support group that doesn't do anything but the Memorial Day Service once a year. We have a great partnership with our Eagles club who are allowing us to use their building and we give them man power for their events.

Response by SMSgt Jim Burtard made Sep 14 at 2023 10:39 AM

2023-09-14T10:39:47-04:00

I was a long time American Legion member at Post 1992 in Aurora, CO where i held a few officer positions, including Post Vice Commander back in 2012. We retired in 2016 and moved up into the mountains, far away from any AL or VFW posts. After becoming a "snowbird," I tried going to the local American Legion in Foley, AL for dinner one evening. The place was so smokey I thought I was going to be sick. I realize that the posts in AL are exempt from the no smoking laws of normal bars and restaurants, but my family will no longer support an organization that can't move into the modern age.

Response by CSM Bob Stanek made Sep 24 at 2023 9:09 PM

2023-09-24T21:09:26-04:00

MAJ Robert H. I'm a life member to both the VFW and American Legion, both for extended years (40 plus), as my career started at the very end of the Vietnam era.

I joined both organizations under the instruction of my father (Korean War Vet). But I felt like an outsider. After the Gulf War, I was invited in, but was still treated as a spectator instead of an active participant. I even asked the Local LEGION commander on two different occasions to get involved with their Honor Guard team given my experience of Honor Guard duty but not even a call back.

They have lost their directional guidance in my opinion.

Bob S

Response by 1SG Ron Schlatter made Oct 4 at 2023 4:31 PM

2023-10-04T16:31:27-04:00

I remind those who served in Vietnam that those of us who didn’t were doing what our country thought best. We are veterans of the Cold War. We served with distinction and we were available for the next deployment. I deployed overseas 3 times and never to a conflict. It was a show of force.

Response by SPC Edward Logan made Oct 12 at 2023 4:03 PM

2023-10-12T16:03:47-04:00

Also Reservists and Guardsmen are treated like 2nd class veterans, which we are not, especially since 2001

Response by SSgt Vicky Bair made Oct 12 at 2023 5:06 PM

2023-10-12T17:06:57-04:00

VFW doesn’t need to change their requirement for membership!
I belong to American Legion Dept of AR. Post 52 & also Auxiliary Unit 52.
We have plenty of females in our post and leadership positions. I'm the Adjutant and also the District 2 Cmdr. I have brought up changes only to be told "We tried That". I keep chipping away! We are active with Honor Guard, a Veterans' Pantry & other events. Our problem is the same older vets are dying & younger are not joiners. We also have the same volunteers who hold multiple positions. We would love some younger members but have no Sons of the Legion or Legion Riders because no voluteers to run programs.

Response by CDR William Kempner made Oct 19 at 2023 1:50 PM

2023-10-19T13:50:00-04:00

So much depends on the greeting members. As a Nam era/ Desert Storm vet /9/11/01 WTC responder whose military career spanned 50.5 years,-regular/reserve/Guard(Naval Militia) I joined my Local Legion post in 1986-they are very good, and they try to reach out. (like everything else, there are those who don't want to give up their fiefdoms, and I have walked away from several committees within it.) The WW II guys were lousy to the Nam era guys. Some of them woke up-I joined the VFW at my last station in California in 1993, and they asked me to be the Commander at my first meeting!! -I declined as I knew I was going to be leaving and returning to the east coast. It pains me that some of the Nam era guys are falling into the same stupid trap as was pulled on them by the WW II guys. I am very vocal about such behavior. The reason I am not Post Commander -some like me, some don't-I couldn't care less. Reaching out to the families and making it family friendly is good, The young guys need to be welcomed and groomed and provided with good opportunities, socially, and professionally. I was just asked to join the local Town Veterans Committee (Towns here are comprised of many villages) Sometimes I feel like an old guy and some of these older guys are DINOSAURS. They don't remember what it was like to be a younger veteran-trying to get jobs, establish careers, make a family. I will be shaking them up. "Putting a smile on their faces" -sweet-but so what. Can you make a call? Get them an interview?? THAT is what is needed.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2023 6:36 PM

2023-10-24T18:36:12-04:00

I belong but don't go to the post. Not a smoker or big drinker so not really my cup of tea. As far as what war I served in why the hell does it matter? I served in Iraq and soldiers died just like every other foreign war we have been involved in. I ignore people especially a guy who was drafted and served a tour or 2 and got out. I have to tours overseas and 27 years in oh an by the way I volunteered to serve I wasn't ordered by Congress or the President! Why can't we all respect each other for what we did. Hahaha be a National Guard member like me and listen to the bullshit they talk. I was doing convoy security on the same roads in Iraq as the regular army. If people respect others or treat others the way they should be treated u would have more members period!

Response by SGT Melissa Lessard made Oct 26 at 2023 6:43 AM

2023-10-26T06:43:35-04:00

Younger people going I guess. I don’t mind hanging with the older crowd but they are not all that welcoming sometimes.

Response by CPT Rick Cooper made Oct 26 at 2023 11:38 PM

2023-10-26T23:38:35-04:00

Since I am a member of both it's hard to say.

If the Post's are active and light on the bullsh☆t they will attract members.

Response by CH (CPT) Jerry McGowin made Oct 27 at 2023 8:51 AM

2023-10-27T08:51:49-04:00

I am a life member of the DAV but all of the meeting halls have large bars and lots of smoking, I neither smoke (very allergic) and I do not drink. The American Legion and the VFW posts seems to be focused on the two activities I dislike.

Response by GySgt Marc Dickerson made Oct 27 at 2023 12:52 PM

2023-10-27T12:52:17-04:00

I was a Marine (grunt for some of it) in Grenada, Lebanon, Desert Shield/Storm, and Somalia. I've had several Nam vets try to tell me that I'm not a "real veteran". My usual response is something like, "I joined the Corps at 17 in 1978, and did 20+ years. It's not my fault you pussies quit fighting before I made it over there." Normally I get a laugh, but some cop an attitude. But mostly I'm generally accepted after that. Another good line is, "No, I didn't make it to Nam. I was too busy doing your girlfriend while you were over there." Or if you really want to sting them it's, "Yes, but you guys lost that war, didn't you?" Bottom line, just give as good as you get. It's an old guy thing. I've noticed I'm developing an "old guy" attitude. When I'm at the VA, and I hear a pair of female 20+ year olds former Air Force talking about their PTSD 100% medical retirement and disability, and they barely made it to their first duty station before being medically retired, and never even made it out of CONUS, I sometimes want to scream at them that they are not REAL vets. But so far, I have been able to restrain myself. I am a proud member of both The American Legion and the VFW.

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Oct 27 at 2023 1:57 PM

2023-10-27T13:57:45-04:00

Nothing, I am a life member of VFW and member of American Legion, Semper Fi

Response by SGT Apollo Sharpe made Oct 28 at 2023 8:32 AM

2023-10-28T08:32:14-04:00

The truth is that they don’t want us there. They want their old vet buddies who’ve already died. Why on earth would we want to join organizations where the members don’t want us? What exactly would be the point of joining. It’s literally more effective to create our own veteran organizations & to just let the old ones die off.

Response by Sgt Pete Kondrosky made Oct 28 at 2023 1:29 PM

2023-10-28T13:29:12-04:00

Myself a USAF veteran, 1964-10/1967 stateside, air/ground crew rigger, and Vietnam Veteran, 1967-1968...then my DD-214.
An FYI for you 'younger vets' having issues with (us) older veterans...us older veterans had issues with those who were older than US, back in OUR day...with the American Legion, VFW, and others.
MANY..in fact...THOUSANDS...of us Vietnam Veterans, nationwide...also weren't allowed to join the American Legion and the VFW...the WW!, WWII, and Korean War veterans called US...losers, baby killers, we were not in a real war...all KINDS of stuff.
THIS...even though WE had OUR campaign ribbons on OUR DD-214's to qualify for membership...the Vietnam Service Ribbon aka VSR, and the Vietnam Campaign Ribbon aka VCR
THAT...is a BIG reason us Vietnam Veterans formed the Vietnam Veterans of America, aka the VVA.
Soooo...us Vietnam (ERA) Veterans...BEEN there and DONE that.
One thing I'll say...I've spoken with MANY members of the American Legion and the VFW...and ONE opinion I share with them is that the younger generations of veterans MIGHT be attracted to join, IF...if the posts kept up with the new technologies that these younger men and women warriors use these days...the MANY (digital) games, technologies, whatever.
I'm just saying...many of US...have been down the same road you are traveling...NOW...

Response by Karen Stark made Oct 28 at 2023 2:31 PM

2023-10-28T14:31:48-04:00

My husband attended a few meetings at the national convention, and said there’s entirely too much of a hangup on the minutia of wording, rather than actually getting the job done. He only one a few times, and said that was enough.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Oct 28 at 2023 7:38 PM

2023-10-28T19:38:19-04:00

One, the old vets saying that I'm not a real vet because I didn't fight in the Vietnam or Korean Conflicts. I couldn't fight in something I wasn't alive for! F---! Two, the crotchety old white veterans telling me that I ain't $#!+ because I'm not Ranger or Special Forces (it wasn't for lack of trying as I had to go behind my unit's back just to get to the 82nd ABN DIV Pre-Ranger Course). Three, them begging me for money during my entire military career and when I needed THEM, they refused to help! F---, I'm fighting an active foreclousre all by my f---ing self and NOT ONE SINGLE ENTITY THAT HELPS VETERANS is willing to step up and help me! Singularly or collectively! They ain't worried about me at all, so why on EARTH should I be worried about them?!?

Response by LCDR John Welty made Oct 29 at 2023 12:57 PM

2023-10-29T12:57:12-04:00

Concur with LtCol Janis. My Dad was WWII USMC and held the American Legion in very high regard his whole life. After my Navy retirement I found that the local American Legion Post had no regard whatsoever for me. Sadly, as valid and valuable as I view the objectives of the American Legion, I concur that survival for the Legion, like all "generational" things will pass.

Response by SPC Benjamin Hartog made Oct 29 at 2023 2:43 PM

2023-10-29T14:43:41-04:00

Service in Vietnam is not a badge of honor. The war was unwinnable and strategically a backwater and exemplified how the Cold War Policy of "Containment" was improperly applied to a conflict that was nationalistic rather than ideological. The promulgators of "Containment" like George Kennan, Dean Atchison and others warned the US not to embroil itself in a war in Asia - a warning that was abysmally disregarded by the Johnson administration. A meticulous study of American foreign policy in the 1950s demonstrates how American statesmen were held hostage to a policy that to be vindicated need to be militarized The legacy of Wilsonialism persist to this day and is embodied in American Exceptionalism that strives to achieve hegemony in the modern world. American soldiers are killed regularly by the misapplication of the policy of Containment.

Response by PO3 Barney Baty made Oct 29 at 2023 2:51 PM

2023-10-29T14:51:53-04:00

Less focus on alcohol, (the first thing you see is the bar) and more outreach to help the less fortunate.

Response by PO3 Dale Olson made Oct 29 at 2023 3:22 PM

2023-10-29T15:22:07-04:00

For the most part both the VFW & the American Legion are nothing more than a saloon. As such you will need to spend a lot of time there before you're accepted.

Response by SP5 Philip Sanders made Oct 31 at 2023 4:10 PM

2023-10-31T16:10:37-04:00

I was in Nam 70-71 and never joined either organization because it did not seem necessary. However I serve as the WA State Chair for Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve with is a Department of Defense office that recognizes supportive Guard and Reserve employers. We have a robust employer recognition program that once a year recognizes 15 employers that are nominated by their Guard and Reserve employees for the outstanding support they receive. This is real world recognition and if you are interested in volunteering for an outstanding organization please check out http://www.ESGR.mil and then contact your State ESGR office for additional information.

Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve > Home

Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve (ESGR)

Response by SFC Howard Holmes made Nov 2 at 2023 1:42 AM

2023-11-02T01:42:26-04:00

I joined the American Legion for one year. I paid the dues, and donated, but if you did or didn't donate, all they wanted was you to donate more and more and more money. That was all I ever received were mailings begging for more money. I didn't receive any invites to any meetings, NEVER ONCE did I even know about any meetings, or meet anybody else, in fact, I don't have any idea of what I was supposed to do but donate more money. I don't mind donating, but since that's ALL it was about, NEVER AGAIN.

Response by SGT Ken Bell made Nov 3 at 2023 4:33 PM

2023-11-03T16:33:52-04:00

I’ve never seen either group go out and recruit. Just existing and counting on a vet to figure out where a lodge is and feel wanted is not the best way to increase membership. I don’t even see brochures at the VA.

Response by SPC Oscar TorresPlata made Nov 3 at 2023 4:58 PM

2023-11-03T16:58:29-04:00

I got involved with the VFW for several months, the unfortunate experience was that many members inside these organizations are still biased, racist and lack knowledge of the newer members from Desert Storm and more recent conflicts. Many outsiders not veterans have exploited their potential as a nonprofit business!

Response by SSG Steven Gotz made Dec 4 at 2023 1:34 PM

2023-12-04T13:34:06-05:00

I was told I was not qualified, having served for over six years but not in a war zone because we were not in a war between 1978 and 1985. Just the hostages in Iran and a skirmish on Grenada.

I never knew until recently that they changed the rules. Now they want me? Screw them.

Response by SN John Dilley made Dec 4 at 2023 8:50 PM

2023-12-04T20:50:54-05:00

As far as the VFW is concerned, I will never sign on with them. In 1969 after nearly 3 years in SE Asia, I tried to join a VFW Post in a Major City in Ohio and was rejected because "we do not accept Vietnam Vets". Years later as membership was falling off due to older Vets dying, I was then asked to join. Well.... screw 'em. I was not good enough for them in 1969, they are not good enough for me now! From what I've read in other comments, they did not learn anything since the 1960s. I'm really sorry to hear that my fellow Vietnam Vets. are now treating younger Vets. the way we were treated. Wake up guys. These youngsters are every bit the Veterans we are. Treat 'em with the respect we should have gotten back then!!

Response by PO2 Tim Hawks made Dec 8 at 2023 10:38 PM

2023-12-08T22:38:03-05:00

We have a Veterans Coffee House that offers all services to any vet with an HD including family members. We meet regularly every Wednesday and the only requirement is to be there. No dues and we have about 60+ every meeting. We also have different speakers, VA rep and donuts and as much coffee you can suck down. I’ve been going for three years and never miss a meeting. I see these types of organizations popping up all over with different names but the same. It’s not looking good for the VFW and Al

Response by Jim Miller made Dec 13 at 2023 8:41 PM

2023-12-13T20:41:47-05:00

Youngest son said He.. no to joining after serving in Germany, Hungary and Iraq. He said no one there wanted to hear his memories of serving and that his time at Camp Taiji Iraq was when it was closing down. He could not find anything in common with those vets. After three visits he just said F it.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2023 9:24 AM

2023-12-19T09:24:27-05:00

This was the same way Vietnam veterans were treated when we returned and tried to join. Told it wasn’t a real war. The “Greatest Generation “ was not very receptive of the Boomers.

Response by A1C JoAnn Swain made Dec 21 at 2023 7:10 AM

2023-12-21T07:10:56-05:00

Don’t serve alcohol and make at least half the club smoke free. The ones I’ve visited are overrun with cigarette smoke and look no different than most bars.

Response by PFC Jim Olive made Dec 22 at 2023 10:12 AM

2023-12-22T10:12:15-05:00

Although I understand the reasoning behind most orgs not wadding into politics (endorsements, statements), the recent actions of some political "leaders" towards the armed forces & veterans of past wars as being "Suckers & Losers", the organizations hold significant influence across their communities & nation & when political action directly harms not only our veterans but the morale & efficiency of our mem & women serving today, this is not the time to be silent, to be seated, but to unite & fight again for past & current members of our armed forces.

Response by SSG Richard Ladner made Dec 25 at 2023 8:37 AM

2023-12-25T08:37:54-05:00

Like most others here, the “old guard” looks down on the younger veterans. I’m not taking anything away from your 12 month tour in Vietnam but let’s talk about 4-6 of them.
Now all they want to do is sit around day drink and talk about how the kids of today (us) has turned the country to crap.
Hard pass.
Still a life member of the VFW, American Legion and DAV not at any one post but “at large” membership.

Response by PO3 Michael Smith made Dec 30 at 2023 1:37 PM

2023-12-30T13:37:17-05:00

I served in the Navy from 75 - 80, was out there for the Iranian hostage rescue attempt I can join the VFW but not the American Legion, why not because I was not on active duty at a particular time. Spent 10-2 days at sea at a war footing on the Coral Sea but no American Legion membership. I joined as Nam was ending and was in the reserves when it ended. open up membership top all who served . PERIOD.

Response by SFC Dan Macedo made Dec 31 at 2023 12:44 PM

2023-12-31T12:44:02-05:00

I have experienced the same, and I too have membership from their national headquarters.

Response by SFC Dan Macedo made Dec 31 at 2023 12:50 PM

2023-12-31T12:50:07-05:00

I’ve also been asked are you a Vietnam veteran or do you have the expedition medal? The Army chose to sent me to Korea instead of Vietnam.

Response by SSG Tammy Joy Partridge made Dec 31 at 2023 9:42 PM

2023-12-31T21:42:14-05:00

Stop requiring females to join separate auxiliary. Respect women who have served. My opinion is that it is an outdated system that does not move forward with the times. It should stop being a local watering hole for drunks to hangout too. It is sad that they are not being supported. Some of the older folks in both the legion and vfw in my town bend over backwards to help vets here. Some are not even vets but do the color guard as honorable as anyone. Very proud of them. As for family, here they did put on a veterans day show this year with a crusty old army truck and an ambulance the kids loved it. Perhaps it depends on the town or city and the effort to grow them. We were asked when we moved to town to run it but both of us are too tired commit to such a feat. It does take a lot to run them.

Response by SSG Leo Mcardle made Jan 1 at 2024 11:35 AM

2024-01-01T11:35:39-05:00

An old saying “one size doesn’t fit all” you need to try others. Every group is different. Here on the San Francisco peninsula we have a few that openly welcome others Veterans no matter when or where they served. A few are groups that sit at the bar and talk b.s.. that’s their only contribution to the post. They also are generally the ones who don’t accept anyone except their generation. Try other groups. Most AMVETS Post’s are a pretty good mix of ages. My American Legion post has a good mix from WWII to Desert Storm. The unfortunate thing is most young Veterans have a job and are raising families and feel they can’t give the time to get involved. The reality is most members only need to make one meeting a month to find out what’s happening and to ask/give input about post events. Most active post events (I find) are family events. You can always have your group of Veteran friends all join the same post and let your voices be heard. Speak up politely about being shunned. Show some initiative. That’s my two cents worth, good luck.

Response by SSG Scott Will made Jan 2 at 2024 1:58 AM

2024-01-02T01:58:53-05:00

When I got home and out of the Army in 1969 I went to the local chapter of the VFW in Oakland Ca. I was told I hadn’t served in a war cause Vietnam wasn’t a war! I spent 2 years there as a Huey Crew Chief and door gunner, I like all the other guys and girls who were there knew what a war was cause we lived it. To be told you weren’t a Combat Veteran was the biggest slap in my face I could imagine. Our country hated us and spit on us during the 60’s through the 90’s and to have Veterans turn their backs to us was one of the worst moments of our lives. I have never forgotten that nor will I, the VFW can end today and I wouldn’t shed tears for it. I ended up with the Vietnam Veterans of America since the early 90’s and haven’t looked back. I feel for the Veterans who today try to join the VFW and are told the same lies they told us but now they’re Nam Vets spouting that BS.

Response by Sgt Roger Wilson made Jan 2 at 2024 8:06 AM

2024-01-02T08:06:18-05:00

Lifetime member - Stop smoking inside at every function

Response by SP5 Peter Baldes made Jan 2 at 2024 7:33 PM

2024-01-02T19:33:10-05:00

I enlisted in 1969, went through Basic and AIT. Received orders for Nam in 1970. Reported to Ft. Lewis, WA. Last minute change of orders took me to Korea instead. Spent 16 months 6 miles from the DMZ with North Korea. However, not qualified to join VFW.

Response by CW4 Juan Morales made Jan 3 at 2024 7:46 AM

2024-01-03T07:46:47-05:00

There’s a number of reasons but chiefly it’s a matter of relevance. I was married to a fellow vet and we were fundraising for WTU’s in the southeast and the local VFW of the town was very welcoming to me but had no idea how to process that my wife was an Iraq veteran also.
The magazines clearly cater to the older generation of vets. When a thirty something Iraq or Afghanistan vet sees the AL or VFW magazine and the back cover advertising is for grandpa jeans with elastic waistbands, you lose the attention and create a running joke.
The uniforms are kinda goofy and that’s something the current generation are very aware of.
There are other VSO’s out there with specific focus and missions. I’m a leader in the local TeamRWB, which brings veterans and civilians together in athletic activities. Team Rubicon, which taps into veterans skills and employs them for disaster relief. Just like in warfare, you stay relevant or you’re going to find yourself struggling to survive.

Response by SPC Joel Carter Sr made Jan 3 at 2024 11:15 AM

2024-01-03T11:15:44-05:00

they need to investigate the person applying for membership.

Response by CPL Paul Bunce made Jan 4 at 2024 5:52 AM

2024-01-04T05:52:02-05:00

50 years ago I went to the local posts. All I saw was a bunch of guys sitting around smoking and playing bingo. Since I don't do either of those things I didn't go back.
BTW, I keep telling this site I was not a corporal.

Response by PO3 Jamie Crosier made Jan 4 at 2024 6:35 AM

2024-01-04T06:35:34-05:00

Well I tried both. Both were like yes please join we need more female vets. VFW just wanted a bar maid and someone for the dirty old men to flirt with. The legion just wanted to boost there membership and start the auxiliary. Both are boys clubs, were I was told, "shhh sweetheart the men are talking". I tried really hard too. Got appointment to spots on the boards. Tried getting different events started, fundraiser started, anything started and was told "that's not how we do things, just stick to the list we gave you." Sadly, after a year of trying I just faded out, used "kids karate" as my reason for missing meeting. What is more flustering is I paid for life time membership too both. Money I can't get back for something I will never use again.

Maybe try treating female vets like male vets. We already had to but up with this bull in the military we don't need/want to but up with it outside the military.

Response by CPO Greg H made Jan 4 at 2024 12:38 PM

2024-01-04T12:38:43-05:00

I am already a member of but, maybe having a smoke free area. Maybe a internet gaming room, getting rid of the outdated wood paneling, a coffee-bar. Make posts kid friendly.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2024 12:42 PM

2024-01-04T12:42:38-05:00

Generation Gaps are the biggest challenge...like any organization you take your time, get to know folks and find out EXACTLY what their issues are and address them separately. As far as addressing the, "I'm better than you because..." some folks for that brief time that is all that know, it was their life and it means that much to them (good or bad). You just have to deal with it the best you can...after time the bravado fades. Attacking them doesn't do anyone any good...it just takes time and involvement.

Response by CPO Rob Carleen made Jan 4 at 2024 5:15 PM

2024-01-04T17:15:06-05:00

When I was young and applied, about 1970 (Vietnam vet) they never responded. Got the same story from other guys. We had the Fleet Reserve, but a lot of the social life in small town rural Texas revolved around those posts.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2024 10:11 AM

2024-01-05T10:11:51-05:00

THEY HAVE TWO VERY HARD OBSTACLES TO OVERCOME
1) Part of what is needed is time, something VFW and AL might not be able to afford. Time is needed for our youngest veterans. The US government has asked them to do A LOT; and the organizations want them to "serve more"? That is not a winning marketing campaign. Many young warriors do not want to be reminded of their service either, which is at the heart of everything VFW and AL is involved. Someday, these young people might want to join; but it won't be for a little while. If the clubs do not adapt, they will no longer be relevant, and eventually go away.
2) Another thing they should consider, there are not the same amount of veterans there used to be. Fewer military members means fewer people eligible to join.

Response by 1stSgt Roger Williams made Jan 5 at 2024 10:01 PM

2024-01-05T22:01:01-05:00

I am a Gulf war, Iraq, and Afghanistan vet, I have been welcome in my VFW post and am currently the post cammander, and have been a district commander, our post welcomes all veterans. Most post are hurting so bad for members if a young Vet could get five or ten fellow young fellow Vets to join a local post you could take charge on in the next election cycle and make it what you want it to be.!!!
If you wait until all the older Vet's die off the VFW may not be around for you.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2024 3:45 AM

2024-01-06T03:45:13-05:00

As a Indian guy born and raised in the United States a lot of Americans can't tell the difference between Iraqi, Iranian, Afghan, or any other race from that side of the world and automatically think I'm some kind of muslim terrorist. When I go to the VFW there's no hostile looks or treatment. After earning a combat infantry badge and purple heart at the ripe age of 19, I can relate with the Vietnam vets of fighting a war and coming back home to be disrespected by society. The VFW is full of a lot of awesome people in my experience.

Response by SSG Constance Hurst made Jan 6 at 2024 8:57 AM

2024-01-06T08:57:15-05:00

I recently approached a booth of the VFW at a local arts and crafts show. When I walked up & told them I was a veteran, they told me I could join the wives’ auxiliary. I didn’t go overseas to Vietnam, but I served during the war and so am considered a Vietnam era vet. They need to understand that women filled vital administrative roles that helped them get the support they needed stateside. I’m just as much a veteran as they are.

Response by COL Billy Welch, PMP made Jan 6 at 2024 11:24 AM

2024-01-06T11:24:57-05:00

I am a member of VFW, too young for VN. I have Never heard anyone disparaged for Iraq or other conflict. VFW members have all been welcoming. Many members are eager to find new members because the Viet Nam era guys are dying off.

Response by SPC Joel Carter Sr made Jan 7 at 2024 2:03 AM

2024-01-07T02:03:43-05:00

they need to help veterans with transport,when needed.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2024 9:42 AM

2024-01-07T09:42:42-05:00

They are kind of “clickish” in my experience and not the most open to new ideas. Like any organization they need to be open to change, look to modernize and their leadership at the national level need to reflect this.

Response by SGT Bill Spiker made Jan 7 at 2024 11:46 AM

2024-01-07T11:46:51-05:00

Make them more than just Vietnam veterans!

Response by SFC Richard Dougherty made Jan 7 at 2024 1:23 PM

2024-01-07T13:23:23-05:00

I'm Retired Army and was never in a combat zone, and therefore not eligible for VFW membership. That being said I have been attending my local VFW for at least 15 years. I have not witnessed or been the object of what was said by this person. I have always felt welcome and have many friends there. Maybe it could be just his VFW, in that case I would encourage you to find another one.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Jan 7 at 2024 1:39 PM

2024-01-07T13:39:41-05:00

I have mixed feelings about this, I experienced much the same thing about my service Seeing a little of both sides of the story, How ever the way i see it most things that are complained about are easy to deal with if the support chain is intact. However each post is different Depending on the post Commander.
Much like the Actual Military if you have Idol people you have bitterness, and that bitterness breads difference of opinion. Now let me say that the idol is a killer for these groups. and two many post create less Monies to support the groups. Be Honest you need money to keep post running.
Ask your self Questions like what do i expect from this group, what can i do to be a PRODUCTIVE member. My father was a member after WWII seen What it was like then. I enlisted in the early 70's became a member after my first tour I found have a cup of coffee (normally free) chat a bit but avoid the person with to many questions. I also found most folks to be Happy to tell you half truths of their time spent. I would ignore this and have my coffee and move on. I remember going into the VFW while stationed in Colorado i was well accepted because i was still active Duty. I liked going in for breakfast and coffee on the weekends. I said good morning to everyone as usual one person just popped of with F>>> you what you so happy about? I simply said I am alive and moved on. No resentment or drama. I came up on the list for an NCO to Visit and assist a Family who had just lost their Viet-Nam Vet. I was to assist the family in Get the funeral, and other affairs. My Mission required Dress Uniform I made and appointment went on Friday to Visit the family (this was to be one of the hardest things i would do in my 22 plus years in service) I left the Family around 1600 Hrs and went where else the VFW Never Drank beer in there before but in dress uniform and all i Bellied up to the bar and Ordered one The Post Commander approached me What is up with the uniform i explained and he said wow Rough Day and bought my second round. On Monday I had to follow up with the family. I had mentioned this to the Commander of the post and didn't think much about it.
The Commander already had the notice for a Funeral detail And had made an Appointment to meet the family on Monday. Now he taxed Mr. Grumpy and one of the Viet-Nam female Nurses a Capt. To go They dress in VFW uniforms and me in greens we met unplanned in the Funeral home parking lot. To meet with family and the funeral home managers to get everything set It Went smooth as butter.

Now i told you that to say this Mr. Grumpy that night at the VFW Bought the first round and The Capt. Nurse the Second and The post commander the Third. I declined to drink and had only Coffee. I got a lot of strange looks and Mr. Grumpy growled at me what you to good to drink with me. I said No i am still on duty until 1600 hrs and not allowed to drink on Duty, I would show you and your family That same respect. Funny How Mr. Grumpy's attitude changed after that.
The Funeral and all Scheduled on Thursday 1500 Hrs. Everything went as planned out by 1800 Hrs. I went to the VFW i already was behind three drinks at the bar, Now the finish this Mr. Grumpy was a WWII Vet. Capt. a Viet-Nam Vet. Post Commander A Viet-Nam vet. and me and Viet-Nam Era Vet. We all were suddenly friends and that was because we had something to do and teamed up but put all else aside.

The point is That i have not seen that since in the VFW Members just have to much time with nothing teaming them together.
Just for the Record I am not to this day a active Member of the VFW For reasons that i choose not to mention here. JMTC

Response by SGT Bill Spiker made Jan 7 at 2024 2:22 PM

2024-01-07T14:22:00-05:00

I know the American Legion I was a member of for 4 or 5 years, is that if you were not a Vietnam vet you really didn't matter or get the chance to hold office!

Response by SrA John Wright made Jan 7 at 2024 4:10 PM

2024-01-07T16:10:48-05:00

I have been a Legion member for 27 years, and a member of a few different posts because I have moved around. I have not really felt very welcomed at any of them. Only time I hear from my current post is when there is an election or I get an invite to Veteran's Day dinner. The dinners feel awkward, as I don't know but one of the members, because his grand-daughter is friends with my daughter. Non of the members have really reached out to make me feel welcomed and part of the community, since I won't hang out at the bar drinking and smoking. I have given up on drinking for the most part and my military disability affects respiratory. I have a hard time being in smoke filled environments. Don't have a motorcycle either, so can't go hang out with the riders.

Response by AB Roger Zauner made Jan 8 at 2024 8:26 PM

2024-01-08T20:26:00-05:00

American Legion: free Mossy Oak hunting clothing, free camouflage face paint, free gun ammunition for hunting?

DAV (Disabled American Veterans): free ATV wheel chairs with 8+ horsepower engines, free at home nursing care, free at home fast food delivery, free exercise equipment, support hunt via proxy, ...

Used to spend much of my time helping-out homeless or those in need by walking the streets, etc. Nowadays, most people, more or less, tend to like fighting or protesting rather than simply asking for help or getting along with people. Just my locality or changes over the decades, shrugs...

Regardless, many within the civilian sector (as others have made mention), not just one organization or a specific group, tend to be somewhat laid-back (eg. lazy) rather than performing to any set standard(s). Just the nature of the beast with civilian society versus military regime, however I dislike when there is something that can obviously be easily done, and people just sit around watching and waiting for others to do their work for them. For example, people love seeing the disabled struggle (eg. Bible Ecclesiastes, working for vanity), versus giving disabled people what they need, so as they're able to function at a normal rate.

Shrugs, I've repeatedly asked and sincerely try being the nice guy on the neighborhood block. Eventually, I just end-up doing every thing myself. There's always the option of sitting and waiting for God to do everything, but I'm pretty sure he's really busy with everybody else!

So not to bat your question around, cannot give you specific answers for obvious reason, but can give some ideas ... even as batty as those ideas are within the first two paragraphs! Or, just get out and talk with people! Pretty easy to simply make an Internet post or post an ad in the paper, but it's a start. Talking with people and trying to understand their needs, requires much more energy and skills with understanding.

Even though this is a three year old post likely recirculating by famous auto intelligence, hope this helps!

Response by CW3 Ray. Mead made Jan 9 at 2024 1:04 PM

2024-01-09T13:04:54-05:00

There is a significant difference between the generations. I am a Vietnam Veteran and a former VFW Post Commander. I don't belong to any Veteran Organizations, or really have a contact with other Veterans. My experience with pretty much all Veterans Organizations is that they little more than drinking organizations. I ventured into the local VFW Clubroom/bar on one occasion. There was so.much cigarette smoke in the room that it burned my eyes..I get the impression that most of today's vets don't smoke and would be put off by the behavior of my generation's vets. Regarding not being a "Real Vet," a lot of us experienced the same attitudes fifty years ago. Remember, neither Korea nor Vietnam were considered real wars, or wars at all until Reagan declared them wars in about 1982.

Response by SCPO Ralph Hensley made Jan 10 at 2024 12:34 PM

2024-01-10T12:34:19-05:00

Why only asking about American Legion and VFW? AMVETS is a national VSO that is open to all U.S. Service Members including Reservists and National Guard personnel. I am a life member of both Legion and VFW as well as other military organizations. I believe that younger Veterans do not see the value in joining VSOs because they don't want to sit in a bar drinking, gambling, or listening to stories. You are correct when focusing on families and community outreach. I had a discussion with a younger Veteran who was married with children. He asked what the post had to offer families. I am thankful to those Veterans from WWII, Korea and Viet Nam eras who made today's support of our military possible. Thanks for bringing this discussion string up.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Jan 11 at 2024 8:09 AM

2024-01-11T08:09:03-05:00

Maybe this will help: According to the U.S. Senate, the United States has declared war 11 times during five separate military conflicts 1. The last time the United States formally declared war, using specific terminology, on any nation was in 1942, when war was declared against Axis-allied Hungary, Bulgaria, and Romania, because President Franklin Roosevelt thought it was improper to engage in hostilities against a country without a formal declaration of war 2. Since then, every American president has used military force without a declaration of war.
VFW in the name "Veterans Of Foreign Wars" Officially cannot support any Vets after 1942. That should at least open the doors for a discussion of who should be allowed as members. JMTC

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2024 6:38 AM

2024-01-17T06:38:56-05:00

12 year veteran here. I always wanted to be a member of the VFW, but because I didn't serve in a 'traditional' war, I could never get a membership. I did serve in war though, its called the Cold War, and I served on the front lines of that war, overseas as a military intelligence analyst against the Communists. With technology playing a larger and larger role in wars, we're going to see fewer boots on the ground in the future, so the VFW needs to update their membership requirements to start admitting veterans who served in any kind of war, whether in boots on the ground or via electronics from behind the front lines.

Response by SN Kristi Kalis made Jan 17 at 2024 10:46 PM

2024-01-17T22:46:20-05:00

I can only speak for my local AL. First, I had to make an appointment to speak to someone about joining. Once the guy finally called me back, he said, "You know you need a DD214 to be a member, right?" That was the only thing really needed to hear. The he went on to tell me all the fees I would have to pay up front, before they would "consider allowing me to join."

Women's service is still not thought of as being a veteran. Add to that the Gulf War was not a real war. Why would I want to be anywhere near those people?

Response by PO3 David Mabo made Feb 5 at 2024 8:56 PM

2024-02-05T20:56:36-05:00

I got out in 1977 and found that it was not for me, the same issue as today. I did not feel welcomed, plus back then smoking was an issue. I am a life member of DAV and AMVETS but have never attended a meeting. I am involved in other veterans issues.

Response by Sgt Gina Hotard made Feb 11 at 2024 9:17 PM

2024-02-11T21:17:28-05:00

Be more accepting of the women on post side. We are constantly told to go auxiliary when we qualify for post as combat vets. Then we are usually ignored!

Response by Sgt Scott Colcord made Feb 16 at 2024 3:42 PM

2024-02-16T15:42:06-05:00

4 months ago I joined the AL and am very impressed with the friendliness of the existing members. I am also impressed with the creativity of the existing members in developing community programs and member events.

Response by CW3 James Ives made Feb 22 at 2024 11:37 AM

2024-02-22T11:37:16-05:00

I quit going to the VFW post in Franklin, NC due to the cigarette smoke at the bar. It's overwhelming to those of us who don't smoke. I also don't drink alcohol. I'm no prude, it's for health concerns. Smoking is a NASTY habit and should be banned inside the building. If you want to puff do it outside.

Response by SGT John West made Feb 26 at 2024 9:35 AM

2024-02-26T09:35:50-05:00

I'm late to the game on this thread, but RP sends me notifications from 2+ years ago and I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.
MANY fraternal organizations have GREAT recruiting efforts. The Legion and VFW could improve, and are, but AMVETS, the Elks, Eagles, Moose all are out there recruiting, and actively look for and appeal to veterans, both young and old. The non-service oriented organizations (Elks etc) have within their groups means to identify veterans. And many of those groups open their doors to families and non-members for events. Moose lodges will allow high school teams and others to have an all day car wash as a fund raiser. Bigger events like an Easter Egg Roll, Independance Day BBQ, St Patrick Day Dinner are open to the public, normally for a small fee, maybe $1.00 over what members pay.
I am a life member at AMVETS and the Moose. They make it easy. I belong to the Legion, and really enjoy my local post, but they do not make it easy, or cheap to become a life member; it will cost me nearly $1,000.00 to become a life member. In my 60's.
My Legion post is beautiful, right on the water in Madera Beach, FL. We have 6 boat slips for people to tie up to and enjoy lunch. There is a lunch and dinner menu daily, along with live music on the deck nearly every day. However, when I decided to join, I had to seek out someone to make it happen. No one was wearing anything that identified them as an officer of the post. Hell, I had to ask the ladies selling SWAG who to see. The gentleman I finally spoke to (he was feeling REAL good that afternoon!) said nothing could be done then, come back Tuesday through Friday to join. Again, not making it easy. The Moose signed me up the first time I went with my stepfather, before we finished dinner.
If the service organizations want to increase membership, make it easy to join, then stay in contact with the new member. Over 18 months later, I have yet to have anyone, even a newsletter or email from my post reach out to me. Sure I get national letters, and you can bet your ass when renewal came up, I got that letter. But it's hard to feel like a member when you've joined and are basically ignored.

Response by PFC Bruce Cook made Mar 6 at 2024 2:20 PM

2024-03-06T14:20:13-05:00

The people or military organizations that don't recognize anyone that has ever wore a military uniform not considered good enough to be in there American Legion, V.F.W, D.A.V or any such Club are Assholes. I agree that you must have served in an area of aggression to belong to the V.F.W. whether you seen combat or not. To belong to the D.A.V. you should have received a disability while serving in the U.S. Military. To belong to the American Legion you should have served in anyone of the U.S. Military Uniforms. To belong to the Military Order of the Purple Heart you must have received a combat wound by an enemy or an enemy weapon. I am a combat wounded veteran (Vietnam) & I was treated the same way by not only Civilians but fellow veterans. One person that I thought was a friend, also a Vietnam Veteran, told me i was not a Nam vet because I was a MP & not worthy of the title. I did serve in Nam from 05/14/1967 to 05/07/1968 with the 716th MP Bn in Saigon & drove a Gun Jeep. Wounded by a R.P.G. on 05/06/1967.

Response by SGT Barbara Wilt made Mar 6 at 2024 9:14 PM

2024-03-06T21:14:13-05:00

Explain to them women are veterans too

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Mar 9 at 2024 11:31 PM

2024-03-09T23:31:01-05:00

When I visited the VFW and Legion posts in 1979, I got tired of being told by the Korean vets that we wouldn't " make a pimple on their asses" Vietnam or not.There was no brotherhood. I walked out and never looked back.

Response by SP5 Robert Kennedy made Mar 17 at 2024 3:14 PM

2024-03-17T15:14:00-04:00

Maj Robert Hoover, you might add some flirty bartenders... not to worry, us old guys have learned long ago that we're about as likely to get any serious flirtations as we are to get a free pass to heaven at the golden gate.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2024 3:28 PM

2024-03-17T15:28:27-04:00

I am a member of both and find value. Unfortunately, the relevance is lost on many OIF and OEF veterans. Why should they join and participate? What is the direct relevance to them as veterans?

In my experience, these questions are hard to answer for the VFW and American Legion leaders.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2024 12:01 PM

2024-03-19T12:01:57-04:00

MAJ Robert H. Two items. First - Make the Post facility non-smoking. The Bristol TN building is like an ashtray with a roof. The leadership of the Legion needs to emphasize health.
Second - Have a defined community support mission beyond keeping the bar open.

Response by SGT Eddie Kirkland made Mar 20 at 2024 6:20 PM

2024-03-20T18:20:15-04:00

Our Amvets was very appealing to me because they were highly visible in the community. I saw their Riders (motorcycle) doing fund raisers for Veteran suicide prevention, Veterans Hospice, local schools and cemeteries. They blew away that "old man drinking PBR talking about war stories" cliche. The Amvets is a group that I knew if I joined, I would make a difference. They became good friends and almost family. It also have me a purpose after retiring.

Response by A1C Kathleen Gibbs made Mar 22 at 2024 8:52 AM

2024-03-22T08:52:58-04:00

It would make it easier if those who served their time State Side had an idea of where we stand. I volunteered to serve in 1965. It seems those of us who served during the years of the Vietnam War were given some credit and are due to some respect for our service. No matter where we served during the action.

Response by SGT Daniel Myers made Mar 31 at 2024 7:22 PM

2024-03-31T19:22:31-04:00

I'm a Vietnam Veteran and to me, a Veteran, is a Veteran, is a Veteran. If you're Army, that's even better in my book! Lol! Look, we all have our own unique ghosts to deal with, and a huge number of us suffer from TBI's or PTSD and I realize that because I'm one of them. I don't drink, and while I love expressing my opinion, I've got better things to do. If you were in the service, I'm going to welcome you home, and thank you for what you've done. We've all been through our own unique shit-storm and I'm certainly not going to shun a brother or sister in arms because they didn't serve in the same soup I did; unless of course they're Marines. They never get a free pass! Lol!

Response by SFC Jeff Diaz made Apr 25 at 2024 11:32 AM

2024-04-25T11:32:46-04:00

Can't speak for the American Legion, but two things turned me off from the VFW when I joined. First was all they seemed to be about was assigning me tickets to sell, or something similar on a consistent basis as a nearly constant fundraiser effort. Didn't see much in the way of assisting the community. The other, call me petty I suppose, but calling each other "comrade" made my skin crawl. Our adversaries called themselves "comrade" or "tovarich" all the time.

Response by Maj Tp Thomas made Apr 26 at 2024 4:54 AM

2024-04-26T04:54:55-04:00

I've never been inclined to join either....don't feel the need for that kind of reminder. VFW always seemed like an old geezer's club to me. Now that I'm an old geezer, I still don't feel the need to go there. Judging from the comments here, they're not that welcoming anyway. There are plenty of pubs around if I ever feel the need to go to a place to grab a drink and hang out. American Legion is like Arby's to me....I kind of think I know what goes on there, but never curious enough to visit.....LOL

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Apr 26 at 2024 6:42 AM

2024-04-26T06:42:43-04:00

You wouldn't understand.

Response by CSM Todd Smith made Apr 26 at 2024 3:35 PM

2024-04-26T15:35:52-04:00

MAJ Hoover,
I agree with you. I've been involved with the American Legion post in my town for over 20 years. Our post is very involved with the local community. We still have a hard time recruiting new members, especial Iraq/Afghanistan veterans. We are very welcoming and friendly. Our post is in northeastern CT which is a fairly rural area. The other American Legion and VFW posts in the area are all having issues with recruitment of younger members.

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Apr 26 at 2024 8:12 PM

2024-04-26T20:12:42-04:00

I was a member of the legion for over 6 years in that time I saw posts with so much cigarette smoke you couldn't see. Excessive alcohol consumption and then going out getting driving a vehicle. And yes not very accepting. And I am a Nam vet.
When I moved to my current location I tried to find s legion home and most posts were only on paper and the one post I did find stated they would have the post person in control of membership get a hold of me and that never happened,
Their loss!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 29 at 2024 11:00 PM

2024-04-29T23:00:05-04:00

This is probably unfair to the American Legion and the VFW. I have encountered older veterans who were absolutely assholes to me. The biggest culprits are the veterans on the TEXAGS (Texas Aggies) site. I have never encountered such rude people who could not live by the golden rule. My first mantra is treat everyone with dignity and respect, but there are many older veterans on that site who don't subscribe by that mantra. They left a bitter taste in my mouth. I am not making this shit up. I can give examples of their infinite rudeness.